An American Family

[Quote] He was gorgeous (so was his brother, Grant).

Really?

Okay.

Lance Loud

Lance and David Lee Roth

Lance

Lance and Andy Warhol

I watched it as a teen when it was on PBS....loved it and loved Lance....he was so awesome to a gayling...sitting on his roof and loving Warhol...moving to his own funky place...it was an awesome slice of 70's life

The Loud family

I remember watching a marathon of this on PBS years ago and loved it. The father said he thought they'd be like the Kennedys. Then of course all the dirty laundry got aired. The kids were funny--I remember them sounding like a bunch of SoCal potheads. Lance was later in a band called The Mumps.

Lance was handsome. Gucci purses fell out of his mouth when he opened it but he had a great personality and intellect. He was immediately taken up by the Warhol crowd. A lot of young gay guys identified with Lance. It was a weird time in TV. All in the Family and Maude were on but so was Bonanza and Gunsmoke. The grainy quality of the film made the footage kind of boring in parts. Not like today where they hire special lighting and makeup people for the housewives and pay them hundreds of thousands of dollars. They didn't pay the Louds anything. I love how Pat and Bill came back together to spend the end of their lives together. They had known each other since they were kids.

One of the most haunting moments in television ever was Pat Loud walking down the stairs in Lance's NY apartment building after their confrontation.

Someone posted this awesome gem in another thread (a million thanks to that poster!):

[quote]The family was so humiliated (even by Dick Cavett of all people) that I don't know if An American Family is available. But Diane Lane plays Pat Loud in something called "Cinema Verite" which was done in 2011. It's good. It tells the backstory as well as what you saw on the series. Ten million watched it every week. The average RH show on Bravo gets about one million.

[quote]I hung out in the same group back then but I only knew Lance through seeing him around, at parties, etc. I remember him coming into a party where we were all swooning over Bette Mildler's first album. He went into the bathroom and hooked up with a guy in leather with rhinestone-studded clothespins on his nipples..

Remember the Doonesbury parody of "An American family"?

"Hi, honey, what's for breakfast?"

"Don't talk to me, you were out womanizing and drinking last night!"

"What?"

"Good morning, Dad, I'm a homosexual!"

"WHAT?!"

"Gasp!"

"SHUT UP!"

"AIEEEEE!!!!"

*sobbing*

"See you later tonight, dear..."

"Yes..."

[quote] I love how Pat and Bill came back together to spend the end of their lives together.

I didn't know that--it's kind of nice to know as their story just seemed sad.

I loved when the mom visited Lance and they went out dancing. Lance was being Mick Jagger and the mom just looked awkward as hell. They even filmed Lance at a screening of Desperate Characters. It was an interesting choice (at least back then) for them to show something like that. I think they showed him talking about the film as well which made me obsessed with seeing it.

Yeah, that was me R11. Thanks for starting the thread.

There was a lot of guys like Lance who migrated to the Village back then. Everyone was hot for Grant and always asking Lance about him, which irritated him. The same thing happened to me. My brother was the straight "hot" one and I was always telling my friends "Forget it." I was friends with the editor who gave Pat the "Dancer from the Dance" deal. He told me Grant was moving in with him in NYC to further his career, but I knew Pat would never go for that. (She didn't and he didn't.)

Your shelf life back then in the Warhol crowd was limited. Warhol was a user and nobody became famous enough through to make a living off of their association, except maybe Jean Michel Basquiat. And look what happened to him.

Lance disappeared after a short while and the next time I saw him was when he invited the same crew from An American Family to shoot him living with AIDS. Pat came down and was in it with him, along with the sister who had moved in to take care of him.

[quote] In 2003, PBS broadcast the show Lance Loud!: A Death in an American Family, shot in 2001, visiting the family again at the invitation of Lance before his death. The same family members participated in the documentary, with the exception of Grant. Lance was 50 years old, had gone through 20 years of addiction to crystal meth, and was HIV positive. He died of liver failure caused by a hepatitis C and HIV co-infection that year.[15] The show was billed by PBS as the final episode of An American Family.

Amazingly, all the other Louds are still alive today. Bill is 95 (!!!), and Pat is 89.

We know Lance died. Are the rest of the family alive? I can't image the parents are still around? They be over 100 years old.

Lance was obviously quite mentally ill. That's the 800 lb pink elephant in the room no one, especially his fans, wants to addresss. He's always showed the classic signs of narcissistic prrsonality disorder.

R16 see R15

Good God, in that Dick Cavett interview he is just over the top. He's clearly trying to play up to the most outrageous gay stereotype of the time.

I wonder how the American public reacted to Lance's being openly gay? Was he regarded as a pariah? I can only imagine the very real homophobia he must've encountered in everyday life. Life today is tough enough for out public figures, but it must've been a living hell for Lance.

In the Dick Cavett interview he makes reference to being genuinely hurt by a NYTimes article. That was by Anne Roiphe (the mother of Katie Roiphe, the hateful writer), and made reference to Lance's "flamboyant, leech-like homosexuality."

Nice family, those Roiphes.

There was a lot of mental illness back then. Today also.

I think Roiphe was referring to his obvious and desperate attempts to latch onto the beautiful people as a means to jumpstart his own celebrity. Listen to the Cavett interview. It's barely begun when Lance starts plugging and shamelessly begging for an endorsement deal. Even the Kardashians would have waited a tasteful 10 minutes. The qaween believed her own hype and that ultimately led to her downfall.

[quote]"If I step on it too hard I'm gonna step right through it." Lance talking about his newfound fame.

Yes, Lance was bullied and in him I see a lot of old friends who grew up the same way. They developed a slick veneer and outrageous personality to get to the bullies before they got to them. Lance is a bit of a histrionic personality and always was. I totally identified with that. I was immature and loved cruising and getting fucked up on drugs, which is what Lance looks like in the Cavett clip.

But people like Lance were celebrated back then, as you can hear in the applause when he gets around to making lucid points. This was around the time The Cockettes from San Francisco arrived in New York and the stuffy bastions of New York society, led by Truman Capote, came down to the dreary theater on the Lower East Side to applaud them. The Cockettes would party all night and give lousy performances, except for their opening act, a drag queen called Syulvester. While the Cockettes were out partying, Sylvester was at the venue practicing. Needless to say, Sylvester became a star while the Cockettes (rightfully) faded away.

My hippie Dad actually danced with me in a gay bar like Lance danced with Pat. There was a lot more sophistication and acceptance in the early 70s than people realize now.

Years later I was a would-be journalist living in SF and my best friend and I did a feature on Sylvester for the local gay paper. Since I knew about his performances in New York in the early 70s, I fleshed out that part of the article. My writer friend and Sylvester were part of the gay boys who'd been bullied and had developed a quick, hysterical wit.

That weekend, Sylvester brought the house down with Martha Wash at the Castro Theater. I've never seen anything like it. We conducted the interview for that appearance in Sylvester's living room just above the Castro. Sadly, two years later, I was the only one still alive out of the three of us, and the AIDS holocaust was upon us.

I was friends with the Louds. Pat became a literary agent and was always a pleasant lunch but I don't think she ever had much of a career. Bill was kind of jerk. Lance was a lot of fun to hang out with but he needed to be the center of attention. Always. Was really tiring. Grant was better looking and sexier but he was kind of like his dad. A woman friend of mine who dated him for a year or so swears that he gave her Epstein Barr disease. All in all, the Louds were torn about having done the series. Obviously in some ways they wished they had never agreed to do it, but then again, the fact is, they did agree -- which back then was unheard of, to let tv cameras film you all day long. Like Lance, they loved all the attention and I doubt if they could have done it over they would have said no. The bottom line: they were an unusually telegenic family, but they were not an intelligent one.

So I guess you could say, they were perfect for tv.

Michelle Loud works on the game show Jeopardy:

"The product of an oppressively supportive family, Michele grew up quickly on the mean streets of Studio City, California, before heading back east to college. A graduate of Tufts University, Michele returned to Southern California and was gainfully employed at a magazine when Jeopardy! came calling. It was with great pleasure that she was able to give her editor a two-week notice, saying she'd been hired as a researcher for America's Favorite Quiz Show®. In the over 20 years that she's been with Jeopardy!, Michele has had the pleasure of writing for all of the flavors of the show: JEP! (a kids version of the show), Rock & Roll Jeopardy!, and most recently, Sports Jeopardy!"

Pat was smart and sardonic. She knew she would confront her husband and, possibly, divorce him going into the show. She had definite evidence of his affairs from breaking into a locked drawer in his office. It's nice they got back together. Pat says the whole family is so close they're joined at the hip. That's nice. But Bill's 95 now. I wonder if Pat ever puts a little anti-freeze in his hot cocoa, just to get him back. He must be completely dependent on her now.

Lance, Delilah & Michelle performing on Dick Cavett's show.

I was completely captivated by Lance ! Yes , he was the queeniest queen who ever queened , but he was unlike anything Id ever seen in my life up to that point . Liberace didn't count . I honestly had forgotten about the Louds until this post , thanks for the reminder OP .

R26, it's interesting to read her bio. Usually people write their own bylines and she calls her family "oppressively supportive" which makes me wonder about how close Pat makes them out to be.

A picture of some of the Louds from 2011 at the premiere of the HBO movie Cinema Verite.

[quote] I love how Pat and Bill came back together to spend the end of their lives together.

At Lance's dying request. You gotta admit, he had a wicked sense of humor.

Rufus Wainwright and Kate McGarrigle performing "Somewhere Over The Rainbow" at Lance's funeral:

. . .

R33, Earlier today when I started reading this string I ordered this book from Amazon, used for six bucks. Diane Lane says she didn't meet Pat in person but drew heavily on the book for her performance. Perfect casting I thought. Both women have similar qualities. And Lane is one of our best actors. Pat Loud says she was thrilled with her performance. It's definitely watchable. Shows the backstage stuff. I couldn't figure out why Pat seemed angry at her husband all the time in An American Family. But the movie shows how she knew going into production about all the women he was sleeping with, including her friends.

R10, do you know where there's a clip of that? If you do, pls post it.

I saw a clip somewhere online of Caroline Radziwill meeting Pat Loud for lunch. They discussed how little the Louds were supported by PBS, especially PR-wise, whereas now reality TV is scripted and tightly controlled. Caroline marveled at Pat Loud's complexion, which apparently looks great, and asked whether Pat had stayed out of the sun and avoided smoking and drinking. Pat said No, she had sunbathed for decades and drank and smoked, it was just good genes. I have a copy of a book called "Lance Out Loud", which is a sweet recollection of Lance by his family and friends. I don't blame him for being histrionic and narcissistic, it was a defense mechanism and also a result of growing up in Santa Barbara, where people perceived themselves to be princes and princesses.

R32, thanks for posting that. Rufus was Lance's kindred soul. They faced a lot of the same experiences in life. The montage of Lance at the end, where he is in repose for a moment smoking a cigarette, when you look at him, he could be quite stunning.

Oh yeah R36, I think I was the one who posted it on the RHOBH thread. It was fascinating wasn't it?! She's honest, funny, classy and still beautiful. In the article, they called Pat "The Mother of All Housewives."

I love how the interviewer from the Times is almost openly hostile towards Carole Radziwill.

Narcissistic, tiresome media whores, the lot. Their documentary exacerbated it all but their name was LOUD and they sure were. Dysfunction junction. The only reason I found them interesting at all back then (and I was a young teen) was because they were all so willing to air that dirty laundry crap on television. Today it is commonplace. My mother used to tell me "You don't put your business on the street." It was vulgar.

And Lance Loud was an obnoxious, attention-starved, narcissistic energy-sucking fag who did nothing to improve gay image or gay rights or gay ANYTHING by pandering to the stereotypes of the day and pushing buttons he knew how to push. Everything he did or said just HAD to be "shocking." Except it wasn't (to me, at least). I just rolled my eyes at that mess. It all made for good drama for midwestern dorks who had no idea that gay people existed or thought that they were all like Franklin Pangborn, for chrissake. Lance Loud was toxic and mentally ill. Or a manipulative self-serving and very messed up person. And of COURSE he died the way he died. You couldn't get a more standard "This is the life story of a toxic, messed up homosexual from the 1970's" if you hired Danielle Steele to write it.

Jeez R40, did the aliens forget to remove your anal probe again?!

Here's a pretty good YouTube video compilation of the Loud family antics.

Hey, I am entitled to my opinion. I never found the Loud family 1/100000000th as interesting as THEY did.

Thomas Dekker played the gay guy in the remake a few years ago.

[quote]And Lance Loud was an obnoxious, attention-starved, narcissistic energy-sucking fag who did nothing to improve gay image or gay rights or gay ANYTHING by pandering to the stereotypes of the day and pushing buttons he knew how to push. Everything he did or said just HAD to be "shocking."

Hmmm. Who would you say has improved the "gay image?"

We were the audacious gay kids of upper-middle-class families, not rich not poor, who came out because we felt loved and comfortable enough in our families to do so. And through our efforts, all the "fags" and "fairies" and "embarrassing stereotypes" of those early years ended up being the same people who began a revolution that gave us gay marriage forty years later.

I posted earlier about Lance being in the Mumps. I'd heard them ages ago, but thought I'd check out some stuff on youtube. It wasn't great, but it looked like fun. I didn't know that Kristian Hoffman was in the band as well (not a household name, but he's worked with so many people). There was a funny story about Lance and Kristian being at Altamont and bootlegging the Stones show which included the unreleased song Brown Sugar. Supposedly they stole it and pretended they'd written it until Sticky Fingers came out which I find pretty hilarious. One episode of the series ended with Kevin, Grant and their friends covering Jumpin' Jack Flash in their garage.

I remember the dad frequently telling his kids he loved them. Again, this was so long ago, but I thought he called Lance "sweetie" or something affectionate. I'm sure a lot of what he was doing was to make sure it was seen, but it didn't feel insincere or anything.

[quote]There was a funny story about Lance and Kristian being at Altamont and bootlegging the Stones show which included the unreleased song Brown Sugar. Supposedly they stole it and pretended they'd written it until Sticky Fingers came out which I find pretty hilarious.

I can totally see that. Funny. And even a little leechy like that bitch from the Times said.

[quote]I loved when the mom visited Lance and they went out dancing. Lance was being Mick Jagger and the mom just looked awkward as hell.

You LOVED that part?

I was curious enough at some point to get the whole series on DVD & it was incredibly dull & slow (in retrospect).

^ That's funny because the whole series has never been available on DVD.

Yes, isn't it hysterical? - it was a pirate copy.

Diane Lane was so good as Pat in the HBO movie. She should have won the Emmy, but of course they gave it to Kate Winslet for MILDRED PIERCE.

I watched it when it originally aired, and then I watched the whole thing again not long ago. Lance was such a histrionic attention seeker. I'd have to agree with the critic who called the Loud family "affluent zombies." They never talked about politics or culture, apart from pop music and celebrities. They hardly spoke to each other at all, except for task-related chit chat, with many long pauses, and idle staring at things and people.

I did like Pat Loud's presentation. She was so slender and rocked the Jackie O sunglasses and hair. It was clear she was hesitant to call time on her marriage to Bill despite the blatant cheating. One reason is that they were Roman Catholic (culturally so anyway), which is why they had all those kids. One thing I'd forgotten is that Bill and Pat had been separated for four months by the time we meet them in Episode One. So there was never any pretending on the show that the marriage was OK.

[quote] You LOVED that part?

Yes, did you see it? It was hilarious.

[quote]I think Roiphe was referring to his obvious and desperate attempts to latch onto the beautiful people as a means to jumpstart his own celebrity.

My problem is not that Roiphe called him "leechlike"; it's that she linked it to his being gay. Not all gay men either then or now are "leechlike" or fame obsessed.

Anyone remember the Saturday Night Live parody? I don't remember much, except playing on the name Loud and the police showing up at the door over a noise complaint.

Lance Loud in these clips is absolutely hilarious. He is so entitled and hysterical. He comes across like Divine playing the title role in THE DIANE LINKLETTER STORY: "I AM what I AM! I'm doin' MY OWN THING in MY OWN TIME, Daddy! "

R40 is your typical Hillary-voting, Datalounge Elder Gay.

Relevance r59?

Go ahead, block me and you'll see I'm not r40.

I remember a series just like this on TV , only with an African-American family. I only remember one episode. The oldest daughter had gone to Africa for a while, where she had a boyfriend. When she came back she got really sick, and was hospitalized. I don't remember ever finding out what was wrong with her, and I assumed she seroconverted.

That was Good Times, Rose.

r54 Please tell me how you managed to acquire a copy of the show. I would very much like to watch it again, and by all indications it's not available in any format.

I saw it and knew about it yes.

Pat's tribute to Lance is heartbreaking. He died the morning of his brother Grant's wedding and he was supposed to be the best man. They knew he'd want them to go ahead without him and they did...

Pat wrote: "Now I am left with a big hole in my life, and I really feel sorry for myself. I have a good old cry about once or twice a day, and talk frequently to Lance's close friends, because they all feel pretty much the same. When my parents died, I grieved, but it was nothing like this. They had both lived full, long lives. Besides, parents aren't supposed to outlive their children. Even through Lance's long bout with illness, I still thought that I would drop this mortal husk and become stardust long before he would. Besides the pain of loss, there is also anger, and that surprises me. What do I have to be angry about? We kept him going for years longer than could be realistically expected. But now I know how Katharine Hepburn felt when Elizabeth Taylor told her that Sebastian got eaten up by Mediterranean beach bunnies. Pure rage and agony. I will be better, I know. After all, it has only been a little while. I see Michele, Delilah and Grant and his wife frequently. They are trying to ease their own pain and mine. We will succeed."

In the end it was probably the Crystal Meth that took Lance down, like it did a lot of people. With HIV and Hep C, it was a death sentence to take it. But I can see why he got hooked on it. When you're a hyper personality, speed somehow calms you down. Like Ritalin for ADHD.

[quote] I remember a series just like this on TV , only with an African-American family.

That was called An American Love Story. It was pretty interesting, particularly the stuff the daughters dealt with regarding race and identity. I remember the mom yelling a lot and at first thinking she was crazy. But then it seemed more like the dad was a kind of ineffectual person who let her do all the heavy lifting.

That interview with Pat at R38 is FABULOUS. Thanks for posting.

The show is available on iOffer for $12.

R61, R67 - info on "An American Love Story"

The Divorce Scene

Huh -- I remembered Michele Loud from the show because she was more or less my age and it was interesting to see what others my age in other places were doing. From the article about her Jeopardy job, it sounds like she didn't start college until she was 30.

I wonder what she was doing in her late teens and 20s? Hanging out with Lance?

I loved it and so did my parents. We lived in the rural South and would watch it together, fascinated. I thought "if I can just get the hell away from these hicks, I can be like them." That this wasn't at all the message I was supposed to get missed me entirely.

I wonder what happened to the guy (Kristian?) that Lance was bumming around Europe with during the series?

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when Andy Warhol was friends with Lance. He probably just peppered him with questions about what Pat is really like.

Brilliant r74. You know that's all. He would gave been interested in.

I watched it on YouTube last year. Only place I could find it. Poor Pat, always impeccably turned out and chain smoking those Virginia Slims.

Pat went to some Santa Barbara social affair and the film crew caught Edie Sedgwick there, on the last night of her life.

I don't know if that footage aired.

[quote]The Divorce Scene

SO badly shot and THE SOUND!

It's like wading through mud.

R57

Yes I do remember the Saturday Night Live Loud Family sketch. As a kud in the 70's it was a guilty pleasure and my parents loved it. Until this thread I never knew there was a PBS Loud family, although I'm sure my mom knew of both, as she was also a big PBS fan. When we would drive her crazy she would refer to us kids as being part of the Loud family.

[quote]I wonder what she was doing in her late teens and 20s? Hanging out with Lance?

She cared for Lance when he was ill.

But he didn't die until long after she (belatedly) graduated. She went to college in 1987

I just watched the movie "Cinema Verite" about the Louds and AAF on HBO last night. Diane Lane was fantastic, and the guy who did Lance got his voice down exactly--it's almost an impossible voice not to recognize. It's a great role, since Lance was so hyperactive and outrageous, and also so witty.

Unfortunately they turn the film mostly into Pat tracking down the proof Bill is cheating on her, which is kind of boring. The most interesting part of the story to me is when the family goes on talk shows after the series has premiered and starts accusing the documentarian of exploiting them to advance his own agenda.

The intellectuals who watched the show and commented on it in the national press were pretty cruel. Shana Alexander called them "affluent zombies," and Anne Roiphe called Lance an "evil flower" and "a Goyaesque emotional dwarf."

Wasn't there a nude photo of Lance that appeared in Screw magazine?

Couldn't find the Screw pic, but I did find one of him shirtless.

Shana Alexander was a real piece of work for writing that. I found it interesting that Pat came in for a lot of abuse via the media, but to me she was a loving presence in the family. Her relationship with Lance is touching and heartbreaking. And that other writer who called him a gay leech or whatever. So unfair. And they've been redeemed over the years. Newsweek called them "A Broken Family," but they were all close. In 1972, with the Vietnam War and Stonewall and everything that was going on with the presidential elections, families were fractured left and right. The Louds put it on film. Maybe that's why everyone hated them.

[quote] I wonder what happened to the guy (Kristian?) that Lance was bumming around Europe with during the series?

That's Kristian Hoffman whom I mentioned earlier in the thread. He's a musician out in Los Angeles.

[quote]I found it interesting that Pat came in for a lot of abuse via the media

Most "media" of the time were just a half generation up from dirt farms or tenements.

In retrospect, the Louds were the antithesis of dysfunctional: they all loved each other, and the worst you could say about them was that Bill was screwing around. They really were treated viciously by the news media, and they seem to have survived it well.

The other thing about the Louds was that coming out to your family was not yet really understood in America at the time, and so Lance's outness in front of his family really frightened a lot of uptight people. Bill objected to Lance's beahvior because he caused so much emotional drama, but Pat and his siblings adored him and thought he was one-of-a-kind. I think that really frightened middle Americans who were terrified of homosexuality and blind to its existence all around them.

On the other hand, Lance's coming out on national TV, like Pat's kicking Bill out of the house, influenced millions of middle-class Americans who now had to admit such things were possibilities in their own lives.

I wanted to know all about Pat too. She was fabulous. "Where does Jacqueline Onassis live?" she asks. "In a glass box at the bottom of this fountain," Lance says. In the Chelsea hotel room scene she was dressed very fashionably for a suburban housewife. White on white, with her belt buckled in the back over her sweater. She outclassed all those ladies Bill slept with and I think she knew it. She was smart, witty, sophisticated, she knew her worth, and she had a big, wide-open mind. She had finally had enough. "Take the Jag. I won't use it." she says. Bye bye Bill.

Pat was truly fab.

It's funny to see DL'ers complain about Sada Thompson being "cold" on Family, when her character was patterned exactly after Pat — sans divorce.

....annnddddd their talent was?????????? They were the original Kardashians. Famous for absolutely nothing except....being famous.

Their relative affluence made them seem distant to many Americans, and was the impetus behind a lot of the criticism.

Pat Loud was the only Loud I really liked. Lance was cute but an attention whore.

Interesting, when I first watched An American Family back in the early seventies, I thought Pat came across as cold. I was only fifteen at the time. After some life's experiences...and almost two decades later...Pat came across much more differently. I could see the pain she was in thanks to that mo-fo Bill.

[quote]...annnddddd their talent was?????????? They were the original Kardashians. Famous for absolutely nothing except....being famous.

They weren't after fame and money. 12 Episodes. They got a grand total of $850 for fixing a part of their kitchen damaged by gaffer tape. Pat was no Momager. And after it was done, you never heard from them again. But they weren't forgotten by some fans who saw a lot of their own family issues in the show.

R96 I think Lance was the only one who made an attempt to remain in the spotlight afterward.

[quote]Everyone was hot for Grant and always asking Lance about him, which irritated him.

R14 why did it irritate him?

R32 wow, this Rufus Wainwright is not a good singer. That was a horrible rendition.

[quote]But now I know how Katharine Hepburn felt when Elizabeth Taylor told her that Sebastian got eaten up by Mediterranean beach bunnies.

R65 what does this mean?

[quote]That this wasn't at all the message I was supposed to get missed me entirely.

R73 what was the message of the series?

R98 Grant was one of those men who don't like dick.

R102 but why did it irritate Lance when people inquired about his brother?

NPDs want everyone and everything in the world to be about them, r103.

R100, you must turn in your gay card immediately if you don't understand a reference to Suddenly, Last Summer.

R104 is right, R103. Lance didn't like sharing the spotlight, especially with his more attractive brother. He must have hated having Grant in his family, and then people kept reminding him.

[quote]The Louds put it on film. Maybe that's why everyone hated them.

I think it was more complex than that. They were very superficial in ways most of us hadn't experienced before then. Now it's almost expected from this kind of family, but it wasn't back then. They put off people even more when they complained afterward about how they came across.

Pat often seemed abrasive, but the show obviously didn't want to dwell on Bill's zipper problem, which would have humanized her and made her abrasiveness understandable. Unlike other posters, I don't think it's wonderful Pat took Bill back. The only way that ever works is to pretend all of those things never happened, leading to living with a whole herd of elephants in the room. I don't think anyone ever gets over that much infidelity. He effectively removed himself from the family for large chunks of time when he wasn't available, emotionally and physically.

I thought Bill was manipulative, especially with Pat and Lance. He used affection and money to try to control them.

It was obvious that Lance was headed for trouble, but I don't think most of us knew how bad it could get. I think we all foresaw the drug problem, but not HIV.

Mostly I remember thinking my family was pretty normal after watching the Louds.

[quote] Unlike other posters, I don't think it's wonderful Pat took Bill back.

From my understanding, they didn't get back together until many years later, just before Lance's death. I believe it was his dying wish that his parents remarry.

Plus, as someone else pointed out, they'd known each other since they were kids and had a long, shared history together, not to mention several children and grandchildren. Possibly grandchildren by now. You can't just throw all that away.

So the entire onus for not "throwing all of that away" was on Pat? I can't imagine how she could deal with him expecting anything from her after everything he did.

I guess I'm not a subscriber to the theory that people who die get to tell me how to live afterward.

[quote] I believe it was his dying wish that his parents remarry.

Yes.

[quote][R100], you must turn in your gay card immediately if you don't understand a reference to Suddenly, Last Summer.

R105 sorry I've never seen that film, though I've heard of it, but i don't know the story. Care to explain what was meant by the passage i posted at R100?

[quote]I guess I'm not a subscriber to the theory that people who die get to tell me how to live afterward.

How do you mean?

[quote] Grant was one of those men who don't like dick.

Why didn't he like dick?

There's a portion of the series where Bill pours his heart out to Lance (in a letter?) over the way he feels about Pat. I'm sure he felt guilty, and figured Lance and the others knew about his affairs, but Bill sounded like it was coming straight from his heart when he said it.

I know one couple who are still married after years of rub your nose in it infidelity. They live next door to each other so their family can have all the parties and picnics they want, then they go home without each other afterward.

R110, I'm not into that "dying wish" crap. That's what I mean. Lance didn't do well enough with his own life to make decisions for how I live after he died.

Sorry, R109. I decided years ago that it's not my responsibility to explain references.

Tennessee Williams' plays are readily available at your local library, or you can buy through Amazon and other sources.

R113 see, I think that Lance did very well. He made a sort of name for himself afterward, first with The Mumps, and later as a noted columnist for various publications (e.g. The Advocate). You make it sound like he squandered his life/potential.

Lance had a column (Out Loud?) in Interview Magazine. But Warhol paid people crap and you couldn't make a living off of him.

I think there were actually a lot of people who lived like the Louds. Where I grew up it was kind of like the "The Ice Storm" with Kevin Kline and Joan Allen as the hip (swinger) parents and their kids drinking at home alone with their friends and raiding the folks' medicine cabinets.

I make Pat Loud's holiday cheese log every Christmas. It's always a big hit.

R117 ooh, I gotta try that. Unforunately, I'm a terrible cook and can't follow a recipe to save my life. Is there a frozen version or something?

Is Pat Loud a DL icon?

Turning into one R119. She thought Lance was fabulous. They had a deep connection. They had almost the exact same sense of humor and she gave him the freedom to be who he was at a time when things were beginning to change a little bit out there in America back in 1973.

[quote}But now I know how Katharine Hepburn felt when Elizabeth Taylor told her that Sebastian got eaten up by Mediterranean beach bunnies. [R65] what does this mean?

Asked about a comparison she once made between her relationship with Lance and the relationship of Violet and Sebastian, the mother and son in the Tennessee Williams play Suddenly Last Summer, she said, “Violet was a very possessive woman. I didn’t mean to refer to that. I meant to refer to the rage of loss that she felt. That is what we have in common.”

Asked about what she might do differently about the way she raised Lance, she said, “One thing I realized from the time he was small, you could never control Lance. He was his own boss from a very early age. I allowed it. Sometimes I tried to curb it but that didn’t work. You’ll read in the book that when Lance wanted to go to LA he would sneak out of our house by climbing out his window. He never hurt anyone by doing what he did. He loved his family and we all loved him. When he became ill in 1987, I came back from England to take care of him. I kept coming back and forth till in 1992 I sold my flat in England and I was with him full time. I didn’t try to live his life, but we did fight his illness together. When you fight together, you form a bond. That bond doesn’t die.”

Pat brought out "Dancer from the Dance" (possibly the most evocative depiction of early 70s gay life in NYC):

Loud was the literary agent who first set eyes on the manuscript of Andrew Holleran’s beautiful 1978 novel Dancer From The Dance and and who realized its greatness.

“In those days, manuscripts used to come to us in identical gray boxes. When I took home that gray box and opened it in bed that night, I just knew from the first sentence—it grabbed me,” she said. “It was so beautiful, and at the same time, it was about Lance’s New York world in many ways. That world is gone. So many dead. I can’t even tell you how many men should have been here today who aren’t.”

R121 thanks a bunch!

I didn't realize Pat had moved to England for a period. What prompted it?

So typical.

England followed suit with its first reality show about a family, in 1974 - but of course they were working class and looked like this >>

^ Oy. Mom's dress matches the wallpaper.

And dad matches the tile.

You can actually watch the British one online >>

R124 how do you mean 'of course they were working class?'

Because in England they'd never feature a family like The Louds to in anyway represent the country as a typical English family.

There would have been a revolution.

But you can also turn it around - why did America feel the need to feature a family like the Louds and call them 'An American Family'- were they really representative of a typical American family? Did the American public really want to view a 'typical American family'?

R129 the program was titled "AN American Family," not "THE American Family." So, it was about a specific American family, not to be representative of every American family.

[quote] So, it was about a specific American family, not to be representative of every American family.

OK. Fine.

Grant was so incredibly fuckable back then. Sex on wheels LOL

Grant now. Still handsome for an old guy.

This thread is much more enjoyable after I blocked that idiotic "Question Troll" who keeps haunting DL.

" Rufus was Lance's kindred soul. They faced a lot of the same experiences in life. Yeah growing up male, white & privileged in America is always a cross to bear.

R134 i hate to say this but... what "Question Troll"?

My, aren't we glib R135.

Hot piece Grant Loud in action.

"My dear, I am such a whore, I would say, “How much?”"" - Pat Loud after the NYT asked her if she would consider coming back as the "centerpiece" housewife on a Bravo franchise.

Pat Loud for Queen of DL.

Pat had a rockin' body for someone who popped out five kids.

[quote] Sorry, [R109]. I decided years ago that it's not my responsibility to explain references.

r114 has stated her boundaries, r109. Please respect her and them and refrain from posting here again, r109. I have just stated her boundaries again.

I, for one, have made a note of it.

[quote]Sorry, [[R109]]. I decided years ago that it's not my responsibility to explain references.

And that is why, we have...

DL School!

The question troll is everywhere - well done for pointing him out.

At one of his concerts, Grant wore a red speedo over tights and showed a huge VPL.

It's at 15:52 below.

R145 what's the question troll?

R139 did she really say that?

Yes R148 She said it in the NYT article upthread. So funny, and 89 years old.

From Queer New York: "Lance lived at the Chelsea for a while, after he’d decided to leave beautiful “normal” Santa Barbara, California, which was always summery with the Beach Boys on the sound track, the kids looking deliciously wholesome and approachable, and move to gritty, urban-jungle New York to become a “Somebody.” The problem was that Lance could never find that particular “Somebody” to be. He was always an artist in search of a genre, or a genius in search of that thing for which geniuses are recognized: something beyond just talent, that “certain something extra,” as Norman Main told Esther Blodget in “A Star Is Born.”

Poor Lance never became that star. He went to art school in NY, dropped out, tried becoming an actor and rock personality, played CBGB’s with a band called the Mumps, became part of the queer Punk underground, hung around Patti Smith and Robert Mapplethorpe, later became a journalist writing for Vanity Fair and the Advocate, but is still known today mainly as (with his mother Pat) the center of “An American Family.”

Link to above story - Pat invites author to her E. 69th apartment to discuss author's book, ends up getting drunk with Pat and hanging with Pat and Lance.

" I used to see Lance at the old McBurney Y on West Twenty-Third Street where he worked out and that fey young man from the PBS film disappeared into a lusciously handsome guy in his late twenties. But still he didn’t have it together as far as the thing that would bring him the authentic fame he wanted and felt he deserved, post “An American Family.”

[quote] At one of his concerts, Grant wore a red speedo over tights and showed a huge VPL.

Sweetie, where do you think I got the inspiration for my Holiday Cheese Log?

R152 is it as good as my special Maple Syrup, Honey, Brown Sugar, Molasses, Rice Krispies Log?

[quote]Rose Nylund, voted "Most Likely to Get Stuck in a Tuba"

LOL

lance

[quote] We were the audacious gay kids of upper-middle-class families, not rich not poor, who came out because we felt loved and comfortable enough in our families to do so.

Just who is "we" here, darling? You and the British Empire?

Pat Loud was a mom of the old school - she smoked and drank all day and didn't really do much with her kids.

I loved Pat Loud. She was tough as nails and worked to keep her family as best as she could. That scene of her walking down the stairwell in NYC after she had failed to convince Lance to return to Santa Barbara has haunted me forever.

Lance was insufferable.

Yeah Pat was an uberbitch but real. Grant was the hot one, and true to his name Lance tried to make a career out of being gay, like another Lance we all know.

This is fascinating. Is there any way to watch this series? I wish Netflix would pick it up. Cinema Verite isn’t the series, obviously.

No, I had the first reality show

Edie Sedgwick was lovely.

It was hardly groundbreaking, the older generation hated it, because the kids were out of control and everyone knew it.

I bet the girls had unmentioned abortions.

R155 should of just said 'bump.'

It's on youtube. An American Family.