Dateline NBC updates "The Staircase" murder case(Michael Peterson of Durham) now on. 3/19 2000 edt

Post a link please OP

Is this case where the woman fell down the stairs?

R1 Turn on your damn TV.

R2 Yes, it is.

Guilty and bisexual

Watching it. I had friends in Raleigh at the time of the trial. The town was consumed by this murder.

What does his being bisexual have anything to do with it, R4?

Yes, I know Durham was all abuzz for several years as to Peterson's innocence/guilt. I was 100% convinced he was guilty...now I am a tad less so.

R6 It has everything to do with it because his wife was unaware of his interest in men. It is alleged that she discovered his online sex life shortly before her death, and the prosecution felt that may have been a motive for Peterson to off her. He had no job and she was the main breadwinner.

He's guilty

r8, yeah, one show about the case mentioned that she had a work email sent to his account on the night and possibly saw his correspondence with male (and female?) prostitutes on there.

Thank you R78,

Sorry R4.

I misunderstood.

R11, are you lost or something?

In what sense, R12?

Killed by a blowpoke ... insert joke here.

I have it on. Too little of Soldier Joe, the rentboy.

Scott Baio is on Judge Jeannine RIGHT NOW!!!

Oh My God! SCOTT BAIO?

That idiot expert, Saami Shaibani, was used by the prosecution in one of my cases. We tried to get the judge to exclude his voodoo "science" using info and documents we had obtained proving he falsified his credentials but we got shot down by the judge and testify he did. We hoped the jury would see through him and his bogus expertise - he comes off like a snake oil salesman - but they didn't.

And now it was another government so-called expert who presented false expert testimony which formed the basis for Peterson's conviction being thrown out. . You know, that Casey Anthony jury was very smart how they saw right through the bullshit "expert" testimony in her trial.

This Peterson case has sure had a circuitous journey.

R8, I'm surprised that you didn't mention the gay porn, and that it was "pure tee filth," like that clown-faced prosecutor said in court, to the fucking jury! All of the surmising that his wife didn't know about his bisexuality is just that, speculation, as no one sure as hell could ask her, since she was, you know, dead. The prosecution took that and ran with it, as they knew, even from their own negative reactions to his bisexuality and gay porn, that most or all of the jurors would feel the same way.

To prosecute someone, and actually have them convicted, purely based on conjecture; the blowpoke and the, "she didn't know about his bisexuality, found out, and complained about it, so he killed her," are arguments that were never proven beyond a reasonable doubt. The jury, the judge, and the prosecutors were all idiots, and eventually, if there is a retrial, these facts will be proven true. The only smart thing the prosecution did, was assume the jury would be gullible enough to believe the bullshit about the bisexuality and gay porn.

Now, can someone tell me if that fine ass Todd Peterson has been or will be on the show? I don't get NBC with my cable package in Canada.

Hootie the Owl is on trial now.

He is SO guilty!

I lived in the area until later year. Before the trial the gossip was they were swingers and there was a play room in the house. Peterson was known to be a bit odd, cruised the local Y so a the trial progressed none of this was a surprise.

One of the sons was also known to creep round the Y too...

Peterson (after being assaulted) hired other inmates to protect him while in prison .

Is Peterson still in jail?.

He won't be retried. Too much reasonable doubt, too little usable evidence.

The prosecution should be forced to establish that the wife did not know about his bisexuality.

"Is Peterson still in jail?." —Anonymous

Yes, Rose, but under the jail!

What does Sloane have to say about this?

R22, was the creeping Y son, Todd? He's so dreamy... le sigh...

Truth be told, what convinces me of his guilt, and I realize that if I were on the jury I could not use this reasoning, is the absurdly similar incident with the Ratliff woman in Germany(the mother of his 2 adopted girls)20 years earlier. I believe MP is a narcissistic sociopath who has little moral difficulty arranging things to be as he wants them regardless of the consequences to others. His first wife was an absolute doormat who got fat and still loves him, and the girls have experienced so much tragedy in their lives, I am not surprised that they stuck by him. FWIW, I DO believe he loves his kids. I believe he loved THE LIFE he had with Kathleen before his fall from grace with Durham society, but I do not believe he was in love with her.

R22 No Todd was not on. Only the less attractive son, the one who held a Duke professor's office hostage, was on.

Peterson and the defense attorney are so naive about fraus being okay with their gay husbands.

R28, here, not R22, but thank you for the information regarding Todd, R30.

I still hope Todd was the Y-creeping son!

Were the two Ratliff girls on? Do they still believe their mother's bloody death on the staircase in Germany was an accident, and that their stepmother's similar bloody death on the staircase in NC was a mere coincidence? Or has Caitlin Atwater managed to penetrate their epic denial in all these years?

Did Caitlin Atwater herself appear?

He is not in jail. He's awaiting a new trial, if it happens.

R33 Ye yes and yes. The Ratliff girls still support their dad and they seem more than ever to adore him. They have both outgrown their awkward stages and were looking quite good. Caitlyn Atwater was on the show perhaps the most of anyone, and she looked great.

If the Ratliff girls don't find it odd that both their father and their mother died strangely(both with MP nearby) and then Kathleen met a horrendous death while their father spent all his time cruising at the local Y, they are both in almost a fugue state of denial. But then, after so much tragedy, I can understand that.

Peterson lived off significant amounts of money from the estates of the Ratliff girls' parents after both their parents died under bizarre circumstances. George Ratliff's cause of death and even place of death are still classified. Two years after his death, his wife dies on that bloody staircase in Germany. The case wasn't investigated properly, and the Michael Peterson and his soon-to-be ex-wife take the two very young girls (over the objections of the girls' relatives) and use their inheritance to live off.

He never even adopted the girls.

Years later, the girls grow up and Michael Peterson's wife is in danger of losing her well-paying job. She carries a serious amount of life insurance. Non-working liar Michael Peterson is in a financial bind. Time for another woman to bleed out on a staircase from lacerations in her scalp, this time with blood drops spattered up inside the shorts that Peterson was wearing.

I hope the conviction sticks this time. He's an old man now, but he should spend the rest of his life behind bars.

R36 Sums it all up perfectly. The life insurance would allow him to continue to live comfortably.

He is a sociopath.

Just from reading this thread, with three odd deaths and Michael Peterson benefiting financially from them, as well as two of them being eerily similar, it's obviously not coincidental. Peterson's guilty.

I watched the trial and thought the physical evidence pointing to his guilt was overwhelming. As I recall, the defense claimed she fell down the stairs. She had multiple lacerations, each one starting at the front of her head and ending at the back of her head. To sustain those injuries in a fall, she would have had to bounce down the stairs on the top of her head, hitting the edge of each step and rocking back and forth. It was ridiculous.

Now they say an owl did it.

Just watched the documentary based on a recommendation from someone who told me "one minute you think he's guilty, then you think he's innocent" and 10 minutes into watching it I know he's guilty and was left wondering what my friend was talking about! MP is a narcissist sociopath for sure. I have good creepdar from being raised by two mentally ill narcissists so I viewed the story through that lens. #1 thing I noticed was that not only does he die his hair, but also his eyebrows. That early scene of him driving around some run down neighborhood going on about how he tried to save it, placing himself in some savior good guy role. Ugh at him sitting around holding court with the pipe like he's some great intellectual orator with his unquestioning kids as a captive audience. His whole offense is the best defense Was chilling especially the scene where the family is talking in the kitchen like everything is normal and they shoot it from down the hall where the splattered blood is still covering the bottom of the staircase, yikes!

Three new episodes on Netflix tonight will mark the conclusion of this saga.

Okay, I am going to have to do one of those 30 day trial memberships so I can see the 3 episodes.

I was practically attached to this case back when it was a contemporary event. It was and still is one of the most lurid and weird murders ever. I wouldn't say it tops OJ and Nicole, but it was a decent #2.

I still think he is guilty.

Is there anything new in the new episodes?

Why oh why didn't the beauteous Todd Peterson appear in the final episodes??

so here's my theory. at one point we see an old photo of MP, young, sitting with Patty and Liz in Germany. He looks IDENTICAL to the brunette Ratliff daughter. What if he were the father of the Ratliff girls? That's the only thing that makes sense to me about a mother leaving her daughters to a man friend-- and the man friend keeping them, instead of his ex-wife or Liz's sisters or mother. And if he were the father of them, then the whole thing gets stickier. More secrets, more lies. Even if the owl did it, the entire Kathleen staircase thing was a visitation on MP, because there is no doubt in my mind he killed Liz Ratliff. Because she was going to spill the beans? Or take the girls away from him or. . .

[bold]The Staircase director reveals what he wasn't allowed to film, and talks Michael Peterson's shock decision[/bold]

[quote]De Lestrade originally made eight episodes of The Staircase from 2001 to 2004, a follow-up in 2010 and a final three episodes completed the story in 2018.

[quote]Now, in a candid new interview with Digital Spy, he reflects on the series as a whole, responding to some of its biggest controversies, as well as revealing if he thinks Michael would have won a retrial, and whether he's finally done with The Staircase for good.

[quote]I still think he is guilty.

Of course he’s guilty.

So, does this reprieve/ 'Afford' outcome mean he is entitled to pursue or sue for an insurance,/damages payout now on which he may comfortably live out his days?

No R50 an Alford plea is a legal admittance of guilt whilst maintaining you are innocent. It's very rarely used, the only other case I can think of is the West Memphis 3. It's an acknowledgement that the state have enough evidence to go to retrial/convict you but you get let out on time served. Part of the deal is that you cannot sue.

In both this and the WM3 case I suspect it was offered to save the state having to admit to failures in due process and shell out millions in compensation and they are able to maintain that they convicted the right people. In the case of Peterson I think he was guilty, the WM3 I feel there is a lot more doubt.

Thanks R51

R51 Interesting re: the WM3. I do not think they are guilty, but I agree that MP certainly is/was.

R47, apparently DNA testing showed no biological link between Michael Peterson and the older daughter, Margaret., which was surprising given how much she looks like him.

In the new episodes it felt to me like even David Rudolf, Peterson’s faithful attorney, admitted that the alternate explanations for all the blood on the staircase were ludicrous. He’s talking about how no one really will ever know the truth (except Peterson himself). He said something like, would I like to know more about the raptor* that caused the right lacerations on her? Sure I would. That explanation being of course ridiculous.

*raptor meaning bird of prey, not Spielbergian dinosaur

I think she looks like her mother R54

R53 I'm not 100% convinced the WM3 were innocent but in that case there are at least two other people that could be considered suspects and the evidence against them was weak. They should never have been convicted with what was presented to the court, especially not the death penalty for Echols. With Peterson there is no other reasonable suspect (I find the owl theory a bit incredulous) therefore it's more a case of did he do it versus was it an accident.

The Staircase subreddit is getting busy now this has aired on Netflix for anyone else that finds this case fascinating.

R55 it was clear from the first minutes of episode 3 that David Rudolf knows Peterson did it. Remember the footage of Rudolf watching a news report on the discovery of the first staircase victim in Germany? Then he turns to the filmmaker and says..... well now you have a better movie.

Thank you R54. As I've watched more of the series (although I saw the film years ago) I am struck again and again by how much the children resemble each other. In the last episodes, the non-Todd son very much resembles Martha. BUT the other thing, is that your article says nothing about Margaret being tested-- and she too resembles MP. So could Martha's dogged defense of MP be her protection of her sister? It just feels like too much family denial and collusion. There is nothing sadder to me than a child who feels the need to protect a parent at their own expense.

Is this the same show on Netflix’s?

r61 This paragraph from r42's article should clear things up.

[quote]When The Staircase first debuted on French TV in 2005, it was barely recognizable as a true-crime documentary. At that time, “true crime” meant Dateline. It meant Nancy Grace, whose smug moralism stands in for the judgments of society in Jean-Xavier de Lestrade’s then eight-part documentary series. More than a decade later, immersive, long-form true-crime series like The Staircase are common—trendy, even—thanks in no small part to Netflix, which this week will finally release three new episodes (after two additional episodes were released in 2013) that provide a definitive, if sometimes frustrating ending to this genre-defining work of documentary filmmaking. Just the scope of the project, nearly 13 hours of television filmed over the course of 16 years, is a staggering achievement unto itself.

Whose idea was it to film this whole thing anyway? Anyone know the genesis behind it?

Saturday evening and I am going to start to watch The Staircase. Watched The Keeper. It would have been more fulfilling if they would have found out who murdered Sister Kathy and the young 20 year old female. Hopefully they will at some point add new episodes to complete the Baltimore, Maryland series.

R63 There are interviews with the filmmaker out there. As I remember, he had done a docu about a poor person who receives poor courtroom treatment. He then decided to do a docu about a privileged person to see if the experience of justice were different. Enter the MP case. French director contacted them and originally the film meant to cover both prosecution and defense, but prosecution backed out. My shock is that anyone would complicate their case by dealing with a film crew. Egos, pure and simple. MP's pontificating indicts him for me. What a jerk. Without the film, I might have felt more sympathy. I absolutely vote guilty.

R64 maybe u weren’t paying close enough attention, they did find the murderer - that guy who was her neighbor.

Yeah he denied it when they asked, but her car being dumped down the street from where she lived + he drove with both feet = it was him.

Yes I was paying attention. I came to the same conclusion. I would prefer to have the officials come out and name the responsible person or persons and officially make a statement and close the case.

Oh well yeah, a successful prosecution would make for a better cherry on top. But still, the killer was IDed & even interviewed - pretty good job by the filmmakers.

The oddest part of The Staircase- I knew nothing about it and binge watched the entire thing- was how 2002 did not look like some far away place like it does in my mind. The only thing in that film that would have clued me into the fact that it was not filmed within the last 5 years (at least the initial episodes) were the cars! It kind of shows the illusory nature of time and perception. It is extremely strange to me how that prosecutor barely hid her homophobia and how much that was a part of their case. She would be a great character in a film.

I vote guilty because there is simply no way that he did not do this. Did he have any wounds on himself? In my mind the most likely scenario was that the wife found out about his double life and attacked him and in a rage he killed her.

And the wife's sister was another character! Her venom and hatred was campy and scary- Her final rage while looking at the camera in court could also get someone an Academy Award.

It's a shame Freda Black laboured over the bisexual angle to the degree it came off as homophobic. If the prosecution had just handled that aspect with less sensationalism and more decorum they could still have made a valid point that would stand up better.

I don't think it's unreasonable that a women who is working to support Peterson and 5 kids (4 of whom are not hers) would freak out that he was using money they couldn't afford to hook up with escorts whilst she was out at work and have an angry confrontation about it if she found out. All the stuff dwelling on gay porn and anal sex being 'pure T filth' actually discredited the legitimate angle.

Black got some karma though, she was sacked for DUI's and eventually disbarred ending up working in a launderette. You can google the mugshots - she hit a wall hard looks wise.

R70! NO WAY!!!! You guys give me life. Her expressions were pure comedy too! I kind of feel bad for Ms. Freda. She was a character.

Off to google!

And does anyone recall, did Peterson have ANY Wounds on him? My theory is that the wife attacked him (rightfully, in my mind) and he went berserk. But then I am already forgetting about the case in Germany.

OMG , and who didn't love that eccentric and verbose nerdy chick who went to Germany with them? She struck me as a failed poetress!

And that one daughter's hairstyles. Sweet Jesus!

[quote]No [R50] an Alford plea is a legal admittance of guilt whilst maintaining you are innocent.

No, an Alford Plea is acknowledging that the Prosecutor has enough evidence to get a conviction from a Judge or jury while still maintaining innocence. There is no admittance of guilt, legal or otherwise. If there were, it would be a straight up guilty plea.

It does involve an admittance of guilt R72. See the below video of the WM3 from 1.28. They all have to plead guilty in accordance with Alford and are therefore still considered as guilty by the state.

Who falls down the stairs and splashes blood up the walls? Plus he killed a neighbor in Germany using the same method.

And he looks like he's got a dirty hole.

[quote] It does involve an admittance of guilt [R72]. See the below video of the WM3 from 1.28. They all have to plead guilty in accordance with Alford and are therefore still considered as guilty by the state.

No. Though an Alford plea is technically a guilty plea and it is considered the same as any regular guilty plea in the eyes of the law for purposes of sentencing and for the criminal record, the defendant however DOES NOT ADMIT HIS/HER GUILT of the specific circumstances except to say the word Guilty when asked by the court how they plead. Normally the judge will also ask "are you pelading guilty because in fact you are guilty?" but that is not asked in an Alford plea.

I have had clients enter Alford pleas quite a number of times over the past 30 years - some because of innocence but more because the client was under the influence of drugs or alcohol and couldn't remember enough to admit that s/he committed the acts that constituted the offense.

It's a technical difference but it is an important difference. Which is why it took a Supreme Court decision to give defendants the right to use the Alford plea.

Thanks, r76.

[quote]What if he were the father of the Ratliff girls? That's the only thing that makes sense to me about a mother leaving her daughters to a man friend

The girls were left to both him and Patty, his first wife, not just him.

I was really struck by how much the girls looked like his sons, and that one photo from the 1970s of both Patty and the lady who died showed they looked remarkably similar. Kathleen also looked similar. He definitely had a type.

The phrase Freda Black was using was "pure d filth," not "pure t." It's the genteel abbreviation of "pure damn." Common in the South and Appalachian region, and pretty old fashioned. I laughed when she said it because I hadn't heard that phrase since the 1980s.

[quote]the Ratliff girls don't find it odd that both their father and their mother died strangely(both with MP nearby)

Peterson wasn't anywhere near George Ratliff when he died. The Aphrodite Jones book says his friend discovered he'd died in his sleep but no one would reveal of what. It was in Panama, and Michael was still in Germany.

R81 Yes, but there is still some mystery surrounding George Ratliff's cause of death which seems quite odd to me. I never thought that MP was involved directly with GR's death, but the fact that the cause remained shrouded in doubt so many years later...something smells off.

I am not saying this is the reason, but this is a hypothetical only: let's say that Ratliff committed suicide because his wife confessed she was in love with MP and planned to divorce GR. That does not implicate MP in the death, but it would involve him tangentially. And then what if MP freaked out when that happened because he had no intention of marrying Liz Ratliff...and he killed her to shut her up and put the whole situation to rest. Of course it would be important to the Peterson defense to keep the cause of death out, since it could lend some weight to the fact that MP killed Ratliff on her staircase.

BBC Radio did an interesting podcast on the case with 16 or so episodes that include interesting details left out of The Staircase. One of them was that Liz Ratiliff had Michael Peterson "manage" 250K she received after her husband's death.

R82 yeah, great podcast. really puts THE STAIRCASE in perspective and seals MP's guilt when all the facts are presented, including his determination that the French film crew be part of the case, against Rudolf's advice.

What I can't work out is what caused the scalp injuries but left no skull or brain trauma. I do wonder if the truth is somewhere in the middle e.g. they had an argument and he shoved her down the stairs then stormed out of the house to cool off, came back and realised she was more hurt than he thought.

I don't believe he is telling the whole truth about that night because his timelines are off and he's too vague with recollections but the evidence isn't conclusive of an actual beating either.

I remember watching some years ago Dateline on YouTube about this case and thinking: yeah he is def guilty. Then a few days ago I watched the docu and felt that maybe he was not guilty. The docu, I think is very biased and it made me change my mind. But then I watched other crime shows and heard the bbc podcast and now I’m sure he is guilty. Micahel is very narssistic and has a way of manipulating people. Sociopaths can be very charming. Too bad the state had Deaver as an expert, a crooked horrible person who should be put in jail for the harm he made to other people( ex. Greg Tylor case)

Supposedly the purpose of the documentary was not to prove is innocence or guilt.

One thing that struck me watching the documentary on Netflix was the horror show that was Nancy Grace. I mean, I knew she was a carnival barker on TV and a crusader based on real life, but the degree of bias and slant that show threw on coverage... it needed a disclaimer. Whatever you think of Peterson's guilt or innocence, she didn't do anybody any favours.

Unfortunately I never saw Nancy Grace cover the staircase. I can imagine just how over the top she got with this one.

Unfortunately I never saw Nancy Grace at the bottom of the staircase.

Freda - The Remix

I can’t keep a straight face looking at Freda!

Freda "This porn is hard core porn! PURE FILTH!"

I think she's Marguerite Perrin's smarter cousin. The one who's pa is only a step uncle instead of the real thing.

just started watching this on netflix... it's fascinating

Women in imperfect marriages don't just wind up at the bottom of the stairs by accident.

MP had an affair with someone working on The Staircase while it was being filmed---how cunning is that?

Okay, I can't believe I'm saying this, but the owl theory seems plausible to me. I just could never get past the fact that there were these deep scalp lacerations but no skull or brain trauma. When Rudolf said that they had examined the reports of HUNDREDS of beating deaths and this one was the ONLY ONE with no skull or brain trauma, I thought, he's got something here. This does not make sense as a beating death.

And I don't want to hear about how Peterson was a narcissist. Oy, the hundreds of narcissists I've known in my life who have NOT committed murder!

r97

there were so many problems with the evidence...one of the biggest of was the scalp lacerations and FEATHERS in her hair!!!

R98, yeah, the feathers! Never thought I'd think he was not guilty, but... there it is.