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The gay man long accused of “starting AIDS” is finally off the hook

You may not have heard of Gaetan Dugas but you’ve likely heard what he’s long been called: “Patient Zero,” or the man who was so sexually promiscuous that he introduced HIV in the U.S. In Randy Shilts’ landmark 1987 AIDS chronicle And the Band Played On, Dugas — a handsome French-Canadian flight attendant who died of AIDS in 1984 — is unflatteringly painted as the man who knowingly gave HIV to as many American gay men as possible in the early 1980s, unleashing the virus in major American cities.

But, as New York magazine’s Science of Us blog reports (via a story in Science magazine by longtime HIV/AIDS reporter Jon Cohen), new research shows that Dugas’ particular virus looks very different from versions of the virus that started circulating in the U.S. as early as 1970. Molecularly, Dugas’ virus looks much more like versions that were circulating much later on — and that the earliest versions of the virus in the U.S. are similar to those from Haiti.

This suggests that the first case(s) of HIV in the U.S. likely were from people who’d recently visited or come from that Haiti or nearby.

More than 30 years after Dugas’ death, this news is a sort of acquittal for a man who’d long been pinned as such a promiscuous sexual super-predator that he managed to seed HIV across the nation.

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by Anonymousreply 167May 14, 2018 12:12 AM

No, Gateon was a man whore and an AIDS infested weirdo that spread his disease. Of course now they "conveniently" say the DNA is different. But it's not. He was the one.

by Anonymousreply 1March 8, 2016 7:37 PM

Yeah, I guess all those videos and recordings of him saying he could care less and he'd like to take as many people with him as he could are now wrong because of this DNA "evidence."

by Anonymousreply 2March 8, 2016 7:38 PM

You're awfully invested in that being true, R1. How come?

by Anonymousreply 3March 8, 2016 7:38 PM

Of course it's not true. They didn't save any blood samples in Tucson for hepatitis B, it wasn't even one of the study cities. They keep trying to push the narrative back further in time to hide the fact that it was a US military operation to wipe out gays with HIV.

by Anonymousreply 4March 8, 2016 7:44 PM

I'm confused. How did HIV start in Haiti? And how did it spread from Haitians to white gay men?

by Anonymousreply 5March 8, 2016 7:47 PM

Wow, real science deniers here on DL.

by Anonymousreply 6March 8, 2016 7:48 PM

Dugas is always described as "handsome," but I never saw it. He was average-looking at best and looked a decade older than his years.

by Anonymousreply 7March 8, 2016 7:48 PM

I agree with you @R4 It's a man made virus designed to wipe out the "undesirables"

by Anonymousreply 8March 8, 2016 7:48 PM

[quote]And how did it spread from Haitians to white gay men?

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by Anonymousreply 9March 8, 2016 7:49 PM

Reagan was patient zero... There was a reason he did nothing. Self loathing queen!

by Anonymousreply 10March 8, 2016 7:52 PM

R10 probably thinks he infected Rock Hudson.

by Anonymousreply 11March 8, 2016 7:56 PM

In fact, the epidemic started later in Haiti than the US.

by Anonymousreply 12March 8, 2016 7:58 PM

That book, And the Band Played On, made this man look like the square root of all of what was wrong with gay narcissistic society.

by Anonymousreply 13March 8, 2016 7:59 PM

[quote]Yeah, I guess all those videos and recordings of him saying he could care less and he'd like to take as many people with him as he could are now wrong because of this DNA "evidence."

The fact that Dugas did not care about spreading HIV or even actively tried to spread it doesn't necessarily mean that he actually succeeded in introducing the virus to several major cities, r2.

by Anonymousreply 14March 8, 2016 8:02 PM

Nope. That wasn't what Shilts said at all.

by Anonymousreply 15March 8, 2016 8:05 PM

There was also a theory that plasma donated in Haiti using shared needles and sold to the US by a New York company called "Hemo-Caribbean" was involved, but the company that did that in 1971-72 was shut down well before the epidemic.

by Anonymousreply 16March 8, 2016 8:07 PM

[quote]Of course now they "conveniently" say the DNA is different.

For whom exactly would this be convenient, other than the long-dead Dugas himself? Seems to me that if only it had been true, the story of one villianous slut who traveled coast to coast bringing HIV wherever he landed would have made a very simple and convenient explanation for the spread of AIDS.

by Anonymousreply 17March 8, 2016 8:10 PM

I'm sure he did spread AIDS, he just wasn't patient zero, if there even was just one. It was a nice story though.

by Anonymousreply 18March 8, 2016 8:24 PM

It doesn't mean Dugas wasn't a piece of shit. Only at stake is whether or not he was a successful or failed piece of shit.

by Anonymousreply 19March 8, 2016 8:24 PM

[quote]I'm sure he did spread AIDS, he just wasn't patient zero, if there even was just one.

Exactly.

by Anonymousreply 20March 8, 2016 8:28 PM

Which is what Shilts actually said in the book.

by Anonymousreply 21March 8, 2016 8:29 PM

[quote]It was a nice story though.

I laughed, I cried. It was better than Cats.

by Anonymousreply 22March 8, 2016 8:42 PM

Here is what Shilts said:

"Whether Gaetan Dugas actually was the person who brought AIDS to North America remains a question of debate and is ultimately unanswerable. The fact that the first cases in both New York City and Los Angeles could be linked to Gaetan, who himself was one of the first half-dozen or so patients on the continent, gives weight to that theory. Gaetan traveled frequently to France, the nation where the disease was most widespread before 1980. In any event, there's no doubt that Gaetan played a key role in spreading the new virus from one end of the United States to the other."

And the Band Played On, p. 439

by Anonymousreply 23March 8, 2016 8:46 PM

There were plenty of cases before him, so he can't be patient 0. But, he can certainly be a total psychotic ass hole. On top of that, he traveled a lot - and so did the guys he fucked around with. There are several maps indicating how he spread the virus across the country, but certainly not as patient 0.

The most disturbing case to me is the 16 year old who had it in 1969 (diagnosed later in the 80s from pathology blocks, since he was long deceased). He was in Missouri.

There are many HIV strains among different populations...this has been known for a while. The Dougas strain isn't as prevalent as Shilts represents, globally. Was it higher in NYC and LA in the 80s? Maybe - I don't know if there is clear data on it.

The publication at the link below is from 2000.

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by Anonymousreply 24March 8, 2016 9:13 PM

That kid in 1969 was probably the victim of cadmium poisoning in a military experiment. They probably dynamited Pruitt-Igoe to hide the evidence of what they did to those people.

by Anonymousreply 25March 8, 2016 11:49 PM

Calling him Patient Zero was a mistake, but it wasn't started by Shilts.

Dugas was part of a cluster study that was done amongst a group of men and was tied to a number of other cases in that way. I'm sure he wasn't the only common thread amongst that cluster .... and it seems there is no question that he was actively still cruising and having unprotected sex after his diagnosis .... not sure if there are actual witnesses to his 'well someone gave this to me too'/'they should be protecting themselves' rhetoric, but that is his supposed explanation for his behaviors.

He was definitely the boogeyman of the urban legend of 'waking up to the note 'Welcome To The World Of AIDS' on the bathroom mirror'

by Anonymousreply 26March 9, 2016 12:21 AM

The flaw with the "patient zero" epidemiological study was that all the patients linked to Dugas developed full-blown AIDS within a few months of having sex with him, but the fact that the incubation period of the virus was actually several years was not known when the study was carried out. However, it was known by the time the book was published (see link).

Probably, then, Dugas did pass the virus on to others, but those in the study had already picked it up from someone else.

Dovetailing with the urban legend R26 mentions, I think where Shilts really oversteps the line is repeatedly describing the rumors about "a guy with a French accent" going into bathhouses, fucking guys and afterward telling them, "I've got the gay cancer and now so have you." They're never confirmed. Given all the other rumors about AIDS, it would have been worth mentioning in that context, but to hammer it in the way he does seems kind of irresponsible.

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by Anonymousreply 27March 9, 2016 1:55 PM

Guys who know their status and infect others should be tried in a court of law. It's criminal behavior. And morally fucked up.

by Anonymousreply 28March 9, 2016 2:04 PM

^ I thought it was already a crime

by Anonymousreply 29March 9, 2016 2:28 PM

It always has been R29. R28 is just a bigoted tool.

by Anonymousreply 30March 9, 2016 2:32 PM

But the incubation period ISN'T several years R27. It is sixth months or less, which has now been established.

by Anonymousreply 31March 9, 2016 2:32 PM

Interestingly it was the feds who demanded Pruitt-Igoe be emptied and then blown up, not the local community.

by Anonymousreply 32March 9, 2016 2:45 PM

R30, what in r29's post makes him bigoted?

by Anonymousreply 33March 9, 2016 2:52 PM

When he says they "ought" to be prosecuted, he is ignoring the fact that they have always been prosecuted and joining the brainless bashing crowd who think gays somehow have special rights. No, and the fact that most gay people have not prosecuted those who infected them is more a reflection of the fact that we know it is our responsibility to protect ourselves.

by Anonymousreply 34March 9, 2016 2:56 PM

[quote]Dugas is always described as "handsome," but I never saw it. He was average-looking at best and looked a decade older than his years.

I agree, he was average looking. People who knew him reported that he was quite charming and made friends easily anywhere he went.

by Anonymousreply 35March 9, 2016 3:17 PM

The CDC doctor that investigated Dugas refer to him as Patient O(short for "Out of California"). IIRC, there were reported cases of LA patients saying they had sex with a French Canadian flight attendant who hung out in certain spots around LA. I remember Silver Lake, where was well known.

by Anonymousreply 36March 9, 2016 3:20 PM

Whoever said that Gaetan Dugas "started AIDS?" What was said about him was that he contributed to its spread in the U.S., and he did. He was rampantly promiscuous, and when he diagnosed with AIDS and told he could spread the disease through sexual contact he did not change his behavior. He had a very sociopathic mindset; angry that someone had "given" the disease to him, he felt no guilt about having unprotected sex with an unending stream of unsuspecting lovers. "I got it...they can get it, too", he is reported to have said.

by Anonymousreply 37March 9, 2016 3:21 PM

How many of you had him? Big cock?

by Anonymousreply 38March 9, 2016 3:26 PM

[quote]You may not have heard of Gaetan Dugas but you’ve likely heard what he’s long been called: “Patient Zero,”

I always heard him referred to as: Typhoid

MARY!

by Anonymousreply 39March 9, 2016 3:26 PM

The fact is that gay men living in big cities in the 1970-80s were very promiscuous. To try to pin everything on one gay man is ridiculous.

Gay men back then had dozens of sexual partners per year. STDs were commonplace long before AIDS happened. Is there a single gay man who lived during that era who didn't take penicillin at least once?

by Anonymousreply 40March 9, 2016 3:29 PM

We try to make bogeymen out of cunts like Dugas, Reagan,Koch, the government created virus conspiracies and every other piece of shit associated with the AIDS plague. A lot of us acted irresponsibly. Going out to glory holes,sucking anonymous cocks,bare backing and a lot of other misbehavior spread the dreaded disease. In the end, with much pressure from the gay community HIV/AIDS become a livable condition. Can you imagine if cancer was attacked in the same way.?I have to pat ourselves on the back because even though there was those who acted like big mansluts,others put pressure on the powers that be to find a cure for HIV/AIDS.

by Anonymousreply 41March 9, 2016 3:36 PM

When I had hepatitis, I didn't have sex for a year, fearing I'd infect someone. It's disgusting that some people think it's reasonable to infect others with a deadly disease just so that they can have sex.

by Anonymousreply 42March 9, 2016 7:26 PM

Patient Zero in HIV Crisis was Misidentified:

Newly published research is rewriting the earliest chapter of the historical account of how the AIDS epidemic began in the United States.

The work, detailed in a study released Wednesday, discounts the long-held notion that a French-Canadian flight attendant, whose story was highlighted in the seminal book “And the Band Played On,” brought the virus to the United States.

“This individual was simply one of thousands infected before HIV/AIDS was recognized,” said Richard McKay, one of the authors and a professor in the department of the history and philosophy of science at the University of Cambridge, in Britain.

The study, which was published in the journal Nature, found that attention for years focused on the flight attendant, Gaetan Dugas, because of a typographical mistake. Through a labeling error on Dugas’s case file, Patient O (the letter) became Patient 0 (zero) — and the characterization that he was the source of the US outbreak stuck in the popular press.

The “O” was meant to indicate that Dugas was from “outside of California,” where his case came to light.

Despite the fact the investigators never suggested Dugas had been the source of the outbreak, a mythology evolved, in part through the book and film version of “On the Band Played On,” which was written by journalist Randy Shilts, who contracted HIV and died in 1994.

Some of the findings from the new study were earlier reported at a scientific conference in Boston in March.

The first official word of a new and terrifying disease that was infecting men who had sex with men came in a dispatch from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in 1981.

The virus that become known as HIV — human immunodeficiency virus — was later recognized to have evolved from a virus that infected primates in sub-Sarahan African. The jump from primates to people is believed to have happened in the early 1900s.

Along with others, Michael Worobey, a University of Arizona professor who led the new study has been working for years to retrace the path the virus took as it emerged from its source to fan out across the globe.

Worobey and colleagues tested blood samples taken in 1978 and 1979 from gay men in New York City and San Francisco as part of studies looking at the spread of hepatitis B in these populations.

The scientists tested the samples — drawn before the existence of HIV was known — for evidence of HIV antibodies.

Even then, 6.6 percent of the New York samples and 3.7 percent of the San Francisco samples were positive for HIV infection, suggesting the virus had been spreading for a while in these communities.

The team wanted to study the genetic sequences of the viruses in the blood. Plotting them against the sequences of the other HIV viruses can help to generate a timeline for an outbreak because scientists know the rate at which the virus mutates.

But viral RNA degrades over time and initially Worobey and his team could not extract enough genetic material to generate full genetic sequences from the RNA in the blood samples. After developing a new technique they describe as “jackhammering,” they managed to come up with full sequences for eight patients — five from New York and three from San Francisco.

There is only one HIV virus sequence older than these in the viral genetic databases. The information that can be gleaned from this trove of sequence information suggests the virus arrived in the US around 1971 — before Dugas became a flight attendant and began his travels.

The evidence suggests the virus came to the United States from the Caribbean. The amount of differences among the sequences indicates the virus had been spreading for several years by the late 1970s when the blood samples were taken, the authors said.

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by Anonymousreply 43October 26, 2016 5:25 PM

I fully believe HIV started with the vaccine trials in Africa in which they used monkey serum. Although there have been some attempts to debunk this theory, none have been satisfactory.

by Anonymousreply 44October 26, 2016 5:29 PM

He was basically the hoser Danny Pintauro.

by Anonymousreply 45October 26, 2016 5:34 PM

There are female streetwalkers in Nairobi, Kenya who have seemingly developed an "immunity" to HIV/AIDS.

by Anonymousreply 46October 26, 2016 5:42 PM

There has been a few DL threads about theories of the origins of AIDS. Hopefully they are still around. Worth looking for.

One DL'er recalled late 1960s Greenwich Village. His friend referred to the "Gay Cancer." A physician friend was an intern in SF in the mid and late '70s. He recalled many young gay men coming in with severe pneumonia and dying quickly. Nothing helped them. They were concerned and baffled enough to contact the CDC. No response to speak of.

Recommend reading the old threads.

by Anonymousreply 47October 26, 2016 5:46 PM

I'm curious how a 14 y/o African-American boy in 1967 St. Louis (who had never left his neighborhood) contracted HIV/AIDS... but then I remember reading somewhere that the doctor in that case explained that the boy had anal fissures (consistent with anal penetration). So he was an underage gay male prostitute. But who infected him?

Did many sailors pass through the Mississippi River, through St. Louis, back then?

by Anonymousreply 48October 26, 2016 5:48 PM

There is also the case of Arvid Noe, a Norwegian sailor and truck-driver, who was one of the first confirmed cases of HIV/AIDS. He worked as a sailor in West Africa and Cameroon in the early '60s. During his time there, he contracted gonorrhea at least once.

By 1966, he started developing HIV-like symptoms.

By 1968, he worked as a long-haul truck driver in Europe (mostly in Germany).

He died in 1976, after inadvertently infecting his wife and daughter. It is one of the first clusters of HIV anywhere.

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by Anonymousreply 49October 26, 2016 5:54 PM

Also, there were documented cases in the mid-70s among Portuguese soldiers who had returned from Guinea Bissau.

by Anonymousreply 50October 26, 2016 5:56 PM

I wonder how much of NYC being a hub for the first AIDS cases had to do with the Bicentennial in '76?

by Anonymousreply 51October 26, 2016 5:58 PM

Nothing R51.

This is more "theoretical" science where they took RNA and tried to figure out how it changes over time and then extrapolate. They decided HIV was in the Caribbean by 1967 (despite no confirmed cases before 1982), New York by 1971 (first cases confimred 1981), and San Francisco by 1976 (first cases confrirmed 1981).

In other words, their timeline does not fit the facts and is just another in a long series of efforts to date HIV to before 1978, which is when they spread it to us deliberately..

This one at least excludes Robert R. of St. Louis. The Portugese virus was a different virus, first identified in 1986 and not found before 1978.

Some other pre-1978 AIDS cases are also collapsing. The Norwegian sailor for example, died after ten years of illness, which is certainly not consistent with destroyed immune system they didn't know how to treat.

by Anonymousreply 52October 26, 2016 6:19 PM

AIDS was traced back to Africa's colonial period, 1907-08

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by Anonymousreply 53October 26, 2016 6:25 PM

As add ons & replies to posts upthread...

There are hypotheses saying that AIDS was brought back to the Caribbean from Africa by Cuban troops who were fighting in Angola & other countries, back in the early 70s. It spread to the US from the Caribbean, if this hypothesis is to be believed.

Another is the possibility that foreign sailors who came to NYC to celebrate the Bicentennial in 1976 may have also brought it in, having contracted it in African ports of call.

The US govt has always said the AIDS epidemic started in 1982. That's a flat out lie.

People were dying for several years prior to that, but either the doctors didn't connect the dots, or didn't want to. Had a friend in NYC who died of what almost had to be AIDS, in 1980, as he had all the classic symptoms. He died within 4 days of being hospitalized for what they first thought was a severe flu, then pneumonia. Then he just stopped breathing. The MDs told his parents he died so quickly, they had no definitive answer for what had happened to him. He was 22 years old.

Five people I knew who had had sex with him, were all dead by 1983. None was older than 30.

If you watch the movie "GAY SEX IN THE 70s", there's ample reason given for why HIV would have spread so rapidly. Sex was basically on tap in NYC, 24/7. I'm sure other big American cities were the same, if not to as large a degree. But definitely SF, LA, & Miami.

In the movie, they also show the new articles in the NYT & other NY papers, about AIDS cases in NYC. They were dated early 1981. Already in the newspaper, a year before the govt said there was an epidemic. You have to figure that there were people dying of AIDS at least 5 yrs before the "official" epidemic date of 1982.

by Anonymousreply 54October 26, 2016 6:41 PM

Poor Sub-Saharan Africa really is the heart of darkness for poverty and disease (Ebola, Lhasa Fever, AIDS, etc.).

by Anonymousreply 55October 26, 2016 6:59 PM

"Yeah, I guess all those videos and recordings" -- doll, scenes from a made-for-cable movie don't count as being "him."

He was not a psychopath. I know somebody from Vancouver and some of his friends were friends with Dugas. They considered him a sweet and lovely man.

I can't imagine the denial that those first few people caught in the web of the newly defined epidemic went through. They all got the message growing up that gays were pariahs, and now they're being told they can't connect to other men. I can't imagine how horrifying that must have been.

In one important way, Gaetan was a hero. The chart that connected him to cases was the basis on which sexual transmission of HIV was established. From there, the notion of safer sex was developed. Of course, judgy assholes like Larry Kramer did their best to undermine that. "Condoms won't protect you! Don't even kiss!"

by Anonymousreply 56October 26, 2016 6:59 PM

Didn't he still insist on having sex and visiting the baths even after he knew he was sick with an illness? He was probably not a monster, but he was no saint either.

by Anonymousreply 57October 26, 2016 7:01 PM

My still living friends & I remember in the late 70s/early 80s, there were nurses & doctors visiting NYC's gay bars & clubs, encouraging people to get the Hep B vaccine. They had medical "stations" set up to give you the vaccine, right there on the spot.

These medical professionals told us that the vaccine was made from an antibody serum derived from other gay men.

We all turned it down, because we knew how, uh, sexually active every gay man in NYC was. To this day, we don't really know if those were really doctors & nurses, or what they were even injecting people with. Several people I knew then, got the Hep B vaccine & they did eventually die from AIDS, but I can't obviously make a direct connection between the two. Yet I suspect...

It would stand to reason, that if the Hep B vaccine was made from blood from gay men, they could have been injecting HIV into uninfected people, since they would have no idea the virus was in the vaccine. They weren't looking for HIV in the blood banks at the time. A vector for exponential HIV transmission, on possibly thousands of volunteers, who thought they were protecting themselves.

Does anyone else remember this happening in their city back then? I can't believe they would only have been doing this in NYC.

by Anonymousreply 58October 26, 2016 7:07 PM

I think the human sex drive is more complicated. I think denial as a coping mechanism is stronger than opinions formed 38 years later about what somebody did or shouldn't have done.

Randy Shilts and his editor Michael Denneny made sure Dugas was never treated compassionately as Shilts invented the entire scenario. So maybe now we can try to find empathy for the scared man who didn't want to believe what he was being told was true. Like cancer patients who still smoke.

"I have to pat ourselves on the back because even though there was those who acted like big mansluts,others put pressure on the powers that be to find a cure for HIV/AIDS." The cognitive dissonance this poster lives with must be unbearable. I had plenty of sex pre and post-epidemic. I was also one of the activists who put myself on the line to demand the government shift its priorities and it's treatment approval process. Pretending the world was divided into mansluts and "others" is FALSE. It was the same people.

by Anonymousreply 59October 26, 2016 7:08 PM

Patient Zero aka Gaetan Dugas was an allegory. He represented a portion of the community who did not care if they spread the disease. I knew someone like that. Bitter and destructive. He was real and I remember seeing him at some of the events described in the book.

by Anonymousreply 60October 26, 2016 7:21 PM

Thanks for the info, gramps.

by Anonymousreply 61October 26, 2016 7:27 PM

"Thanks for the info, gramps."

If you're talking to me, in '83 I didn't expect to live to 30. Here it is 34 years later, I'm still HIV negative and I'm not ashamed of anything in my past. Oh and fuck you.,

by Anonymousreply 62October 26, 2016 7:29 PM

[quote]Gay men back then had dozens of sexual partners per year.

Dozens per year? What convent are you posting from, r40, that you find this very many, or in any way unusual then, much less now?

by Anonymousreply 63October 26, 2016 7:38 PM

R58 That's creepy. I wish there was more info on that. Thanks for the insight.

by Anonymousreply 64October 26, 2016 8:55 PM

Gaetan can be seen and heard speaking on this video at about 6:53:

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by Anonymousreply 65October 26, 2016 8:56 PM

"The US govt has always said the AIDS epidemic started in 1982. That's a flat out lie."

You are confusing the first cases of a disease with the disease being an epidemic.

by Anonymousreply 66October 26, 2016 9:17 PM

R66 No, I'm not confused at all.

My point is that AIDS was already an epidemic when the US govt declared it was one in 1982. For several years prior. They either just didn't figure it out, or didn't care to.

by Anonymousreply 67October 26, 2016 11:09 PM

Yeah, then you are just plain wrong about what the definition of epidemic is.

by Anonymousreply 68October 26, 2016 11:21 PM

IMO, it could be possible for the Norwegian trucker to have HIV and live another decade. This virus didn't just spring up, fully grown and capable of killing people, it had to evolve.

Maybe he had an early strain that his body managed to fight off for a while until it mutated? There seem to be different strains out there with different genetic makeups. Maybe the strain he had wasn't as potent until later after it mutated.

by Anonymousreply 69October 26, 2016 11:49 PM

Another interesting article on the subject. The realistic years for the virus' arrival in the US, are getting earlier & earlier. Now they're saying about 1970.

We used to wonder if the virus had been brought to the US by the Mariel Boatlift immigrants in1980, but that doesn't seem like a realistic scenario now. If it were, Miami would have been the epicenter of the original outbreak, not NYC.

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by Anonymousreply 70October 27, 2016 12:00 AM

They say he was super handsome, but I don't see it. He looks like every other 70s queen ever.

by Anonymousreply 71October 27, 2016 12:23 AM

He did a lot to spread AIDS. After he was diagnosed he continued to go to the bathhouses and bareback. Health care professionals told him he could be giving AIDS to his sexual partners but he said "it's their duty to protect themselves." He just didn't give a shit about other people. He was probably a sociopath.

I really don't see why anybody would want to fuck him. The gnarly features, the walrus mustache, the fake blonde hair...he was not handsome, not by a long shot.

by Anonymousreply 72October 27, 2016 12:39 AM

Yacub created the white race which became the white devil race and the white devils created HIV in a laboratory to kill blacks and gays. In fact HIV is harmless but is activated by the "treatments" which are profiting world Zionism. Only the black god can and does cure/prevent AIDS. This is all true because Tuskegee.

by Anonymousreply 73October 27, 2016 1:09 AM

I always suspected Ratzo Rizzo had AIDS.

by Anonymousreply 74October 27, 2016 1:19 AM

Shilts did some really sloppy melodramatic reporting in that book to sensationalize it. This is an infamous passage from the book:

[quote] Club Baths, San Francisco, November 1982 . . . When the moaning stopped, the young man rolled over on his back for a cigarette. Gaetan Dugas reached up for the lights, turning up the rheostat slowly so his partner's eyes would have time to adjust. He then made a point of eyeing the purple lesions on his chest. "Gay cancer," he said, almost as if he were talking to himself. "Maybe you'll get it too."

Now, there's no way that ridiculous quotation could possibly have been corroborated by anyone other than the one person there with Dugas, and by including it in the book, Shilts just furthered the hysteria over AIDS by presenting a positive gay man as a murderous chaotic intentional infector.

Shilts was pretty much an asshole.

by Anonymousreply 75October 27, 2016 1:25 AM

r5, When all else fails blame the blacks.

by Anonymousreply 76October 27, 2016 1:50 AM

I thought the Robert Rayford case was debunked.

by Anonymousreply 77October 27, 2016 2:05 AM

[quote]He did a lot to spread AIDS. After he was diagnosed he continued to go to the bathhouses and bareback. Health care professionals told him he could be giving AIDS to his sexual partners but he said "it's their duty to protect themselves." He just didn't give a shit about other people. He was probably a sociopath.

[quote[I really don't see why anybody would want to fuck him. The gnarly features, the walrus mustache, the fake blonde hair...he was not handsome, not by a long shot.

I also thought he was not handsome. It's been years since I read And The Band Played On. Did the CDC ever release a count on cases they linked to Dugas?

by Anonymousreply 78October 27, 2016 2:20 AM

"Shilts just furthered the hysteria over AIDS by presenting a positive gay man as a murderous chaotic intentional infector."

Dugas WAS a son of a bitch, an asshole who was told he could be giving his sex partners a deadly disease, but he did not change his man whore behavior in the slightest. He was an AIDS Typhoid Mary.

by Anonymousreply 79October 27, 2016 2:30 AM

Yes, everyone knows only deeply handsome men get laid.

by Anonymousreply 80October 27, 2016 2:32 AM

Not Africas fault that GWMs caught it.

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by Anonymousreply 81October 27, 2016 2:34 AM

It's no acquittal for Dugas. He knowingly spread the virus to other gay men after he found he had "gay cancer." He told one of his tricks that he had gay cancer and that maybe he'd get it, too. He may not have been the first to introduce HIV to the U.S. mainland, but he sure as hell spread it around as much as possible.

by Anonymousreply 82October 27, 2016 3:13 AM

What the hell is a motherfucking walrus mustache?

by Anonymousreply 83October 27, 2016 3:40 AM

Somebody I used to know, name of James, started to get sick in Los Angeles in 1978. He looked so beautiful on the beach in late afternoon. He lived in Venice and I lived a couple of blocks away in Ocean Park. We were together long enough for me to see him lose weight, and he ate plenty. After a few months, he went to another doctor who suspected whatever he had might be contagious, so he left LA. He left me. He went and lived with his parents. I thought I was in love. I was brokenhearted, so when I got a job offer in another city, I took it.

He moved back to LA, but I was happy where I was. Or at least, I didn't see moving back to be with someone who didn't want to have sex anymore. He was very concerned with my health. Whatever it was, he didn't want me to get it. I would visit him from time to time, and we would find thirds with whom I would have sex while he watched. That was probably the saddest part of it.

Eventually, we stopped calling each other. I imagine he died. It's one of the saddest things that ever happened to me.

But somehow, I have never been found HIV-positive.

by Anonymousreply 84October 27, 2016 3:48 AM

r28 It is a crime

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by Anonymousreply 85October 27, 2016 3:48 AM

The heartbreak of the early AIDS epidemic was compellingly portrayed in the movie Longtime Companion. The recent move The Normal Heart also showed the confusion and tragedy of young men suddenly getting sick and dying. I know many here lived that horror, but for those who did not, it is important to understand.

by Anonymousreply 86October 27, 2016 3:56 AM

Wow - in R65's video Gaetan actually asks if the gay Hep B vaccine shots that were being given (and developed from gay men) could have spread the disease.

I didn't quite believe R58 - but it's on the video. Chilling. I had never known about these vaccines being promoted in the gay community before. Are there no doses left to test? Imagine the lawsuits that could have happened if people knew about this and could trace it back? Granted - no one knew, but that would have made it spread really quickly - a total flashpoint.

by Anonymousreply 87October 27, 2016 4:58 AM

As for everyone blaming Reagan for not doing enough, what exactly was he supposed to do? Increase funding for AIDS research? He did that; government spending on HIV and AIDS went up every year starting in 1981. Give a speech to assuage the public's fears sooner than he did? Okay, but if he had given it in 1982 and called it "GRID" by name, that would have further cemented the general public's perception that all gay men and only gay men were responsible for it.

by Anonymousreply 88October 27, 2016 5:16 AM

What was the typical life expectancy, in those pre-AZT years, from the moment of HIV infection to AIDS-related death?

by Anonymousreply 89October 27, 2016 10:11 AM

We heard the same defense of Reagan last thread. It's still bullshit.

The funding was miniscule. He didn't use the bully pulpit of the presidency to make the public aware. AND his people publicly snickered about the homo disease.

by Anonymousreply 90October 27, 2016 11:56 AM

Reagan inflated what he spent on AIDS by ten times in his press conferences.

by Anonymousreply 91October 27, 2016 3:08 PM

He did not R82. That was a defamatory urban legend spread by the (Republican) shit-stirrer and fraud Randy Shilts.

by Anonymousreply 92October 27, 2016 3:09 PM

R87 why would I make that story up? I'm not Alfred Fucking Hitchcock writing a mystery.

Whether the Hep B vaccine back then was tainted with HIV accidentally or deliberately, we will likely never know. If it was maliciously done, you can be sure any leftover doses have long been destroyed, so as to cover the trail.

But even if accidentally, then the families of those who were infected, would have a class action wrongful death suit to Saturn & back (f they could get their hands on evidence).

As I said in my post, were these even doctors & nurses, as they claimed? What actually was in the syringes they injected people with? No one really knows now. And probably never will.

My friends & I always thought it suspicious that the Help B vaccine at the time, was never seriously discussed as a vector for the spread of AIDS. But every other possible, even ludicrous, vector was: sweat, poppers, kissing, even mosquito bites.

I'd still like to hear from anyone from NYC or elsewhere, that may have witnessed the Hep B vaccine program that I did. It could not have been isolated.

by Anonymousreply 93October 27, 2016 3:22 PM

Shilts should go down (and he did, often) in similar gay history villainy as Roy Cohn and Andrew Cunanan.

by Anonymousreply 94October 27, 2016 3:31 PM

And let's not forget the close friend of Karol Wojtyla (later Pope John Paul II), trained in medicine by the Soviets, D. Wolf Szmuness, who emigrated to the US and was put in charge of the New York city blood bank. A recent Soviet immigrant put in charge of New York City's public health? Yes, it happened. It was he who arranged for the hepatitis B vaccine trials to be confined to gay men, as they discovered from analyzing the hepatitis strains that there wasn't actually any crossover to the straight population, it was for all intents and purposes an isolate community. He died or was killed by cancer in 1982.

A convenient scapegoat in case it all went wrong.

And the smoking gun. July 1, 1969, hearings on appropriation for the Department of Defense. Dr. McArthur "The dramatic progress being made in the field of molecular biology led us to investigate the relevance of this field of science to biological warfare. A small group of experts considered this matter and provided the following observations. 1. All biological agents up to the present time are representatives of naturally occurring disease, and thus known by scientists throughout the world. They are easily available to qualified scientists for research, either for offensive or defensive purposes. 2. Within 5-10 years, it would probably be possible to make a new infective (sic) microorganism which could differ in certain important aspects from any known disease-causing organisms. Most important of these is that it might be refractory to the immunological and therapeutic processes upon which we depend to maintain our relative freedom from infectious disease. 3. A research program to explore the feasibility of this could be completed in approximately 5 years at a total cost of $10 million. " He then goes on to explain that few scientists could work on it and they had other sources of funding, but something might be done through the National Academy of Sciences National Research Council. They were given the money and eight years later a new retrovirus that attacks the immune system is killing people.

by Anonymousreply 95October 27, 2016 3:32 PM

And its first victims are a despised minority community that is said to have minimal sexual contacts with the general population

by Anonymousreply 96October 27, 2016 3:55 PM

Boy -- the same tribe that took over the gay movement after our leaders died of AIDS, continue to savage this book as they did from the first, whwen they were not yet in charge of the gay narrative, and not quite in the position to foist T on us as they also merrily send the rest of us back to the 50s and the lowest rung on the ladder.

Poison.

Shit.

by Anonymousreply 97October 27, 2016 4:26 PM

I always wondered how real those rumors were that AIDS was spread by vaccines in the late 70s, deliberatly in the gay community.

by Anonymousreply 98October 27, 2016 7:19 PM

Wow, I never knew that poisoning story about Pruitt-Igoe and I've read lot about it and watched that documentary. It doesn't even show up for a couple pages when you google it.

by Anonymousreply 99October 27, 2016 8:20 PM

Lots of shit about Pruitt Igoe. Our government fucked with a lot of people there. They never had a chance.

by Anonymousreply 100October 27, 2016 8:23 PM

Link to the Pruitt Igoe theories?

by Anonymousreply 101October 27, 2016 8:26 PM

Bump

by Anonymousreply 102October 27, 2016 11:58 PM

I was vaccinated in about 86 or 87 for Hep B and definitely did not get HIV.

I think that is conspiracy theory ignoramus crap.

by Anonymousreply 103October 28, 2016 12:01 AM

"What the hell is a motherfucking walrus mustache?"

Do you know what a walrus is? It's a large marine mammal. One of its most prominent physical attributes is an abundance of hair hanging over its mouth. It gives the creature the appearance of having an unkempt mustache. In several pictures of Gaetan Dugas he is sporting a mustache that's similar: unruly and rather gross. Evidently he liked the mustache; in other photos of him he looks like he has a caterpillar napping on his upper lip.

by Anonymousreply 104October 28, 2016 12:08 AM

Not the same vaccine as 1976.

by Anonymousreply 105October 28, 2016 12:41 AM

hmm. all discredited. Grow up. There is not conspiracy.

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by Anonymousreply 106October 28, 2016 12:49 AM

Is Cheryl's stinky pussy a conspiracy, too???

by Anonymousreply 107October 28, 2016 12:51 AM

Not refuted R106. The Wistar Institute originally said they had no samples until the theory gained credibility from several books then *presto* miraculously came up with something to test which was not tested for HIV but for chimp DNA. But that wasn't the vaccine.

by Anonymousreply 108October 28, 2016 12:56 AM

Wasn't there quite a defensive reaction initially to the suggestion that sex could spread HIV/AIDS? I recall (Normal Heart, maybe) that some took the suggestion as an affront to their hard won freedom, as if TPTB were trying to put them back in the closet. There was a lot of distrust of the mainstream and their motives.

by Anonymousreply 109October 28, 2016 1:12 AM

Of course there was. And with good reason. The people who gave 98 million Americans a cancer-causing virus wouldn't hesitate to murder a few hundred thousand fags.

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by Anonymousreply 110October 28, 2016 1:23 AM

[quote] It's no acquittal for Dugas. He knowingly spread the virus to other gay men after he found he had "gay cancer." He told one of his tricks that he had gay cancer and that maybe he'd get it, too.

Randy Shilts reported that, but it's unverifiable (only one person said Dugas say that, so it cannot be corroborated), and a responsible reporter would thus have not have published it. It sensationalized Shilts's book, but that's only made it seem more unlikely--it's been repeatedly held against Shilts for publishing it given how irresponsible publishing an unverifiable quotation with that much import is.

You should be embarrassed you believed it. Clearly you know very little.

by Anonymousreply 111October 28, 2016 1:31 AM

Gaetan Dugas comes across in AND THE BAND PLAYED ON as Dracula--an evil, seductive, impossible-to-resist villain knowingly spreading evil as "Patient Zero."

In reality, there's no reliable proof Dugas knew he was spreading the dieease. And he was not necessarily that attractive, just promiscuous (but MANY gay men were extremely promiscuous before the knowledge about AIDS spread).

He wasn't even really "Patient Zero": the CDC labelled him as "Patient O," with the "O" standing for "Outside California"; he was never labeled by them "Patient Zero." Shilts should have engaged in better reporting so as not to have made that offensive mistake.

by Anonymousreply 112October 28, 2016 1:36 AM

Randy Shilts was a glib writer. Unfortunately, good journalism is rarely glib because it needs to stick to the facts. Sometimes there is a wealth of material, and it can be made to sing, like William Manchester's popular history books. But Shilts was working with a dearth of fact, not a cornucopia, and he should have dialed it back to what he knew. At the time he probably thought it didn't matter as Dugas was dead anyway and he saw his mission as scaring gays into safer sex, so a little Halloween treatment was a necessary corrective to say libertarian gays who wanted to keep the baths open, or AIDS denialists. But he wasn't writing a screenplay, he was smearing actual people.

by Anonymousreply 113October 28, 2016 1:42 AM

R103 - I see - so because YOU received a different Hep B vaccine in 1987, then there's nothing to the gay-exclusive Hep B vaccine that was being injected 10 years prior made from gay men and injected into gay men only.

Yep - you really told us. Dumbass.

by Anonymousreply 114October 28, 2016 2:07 AM

These things out. There was no conspiracy and there have been decades and dozens of HIV conspiracies.

Ok, I suppose contaminated vaccines are possible, but why hasn't it been outed? Give that inch and the next thing the conspiracy theorists claim is that it was intentional. See my parody post at R73.

by Anonymousreply 115October 28, 2016 2:10 AM

Assert, assert, assert R115. I hope the CIA pays you well. But don't be surprised if they want to update your shots. Just in case.

by Anonymousreply 116October 28, 2016 2:14 AM

I don't think there was any intent on spreading the virus via the Hep B vaccines in the late 70's - but now I do believe it may have been an unintended consequence.

by Anonymousreply 117October 28, 2016 2:23 AM

"In reality, there's no reliable proof Dugas knew he was spreading the dieease. "

Oh, yes there is. Health professionals who dealt with him told him that the disease he had could be spread by sexual contact, but he didn't change his man whore behavior at all. 60 Minutes did a story long ago about the infamous Gaetan Dugas; a female health professional who was acquainted with Dugas was interviewed. She said there had been reports of a man with a French accent "cavorting" in the bathhouses, telling men he'd had sex with that he had gay cancer and "then telling guys "ha, you're gonna get it too." She said she told him that he could make other people sick and he told her "it's my right to do what I want...my civil rights...I do as I please...I've got it, why shouldn't they have it?" And she said "you can kill yourself if you want to, but you got no right to take somebody else with you." And Dugas said "screw you", and walked out. Gaetan Dugas was obviously a very sick individual who had no concern whatsoever for the well being of his sex partners.

by Anonymousreply 118October 28, 2016 2:26 AM

HIV wasn't named until 1986. And Dugas died in 1984. What kind of knowledge base was he,and other men at the time, operating under? What was the relationship between many gay men and health professionals - I mean things like trust, mutual respect etc.

Perhaps Dugas was a piece of shit but I'm skeptical about that healthcare professional claim. Did she actually use the word "cavorting"? It sounds like tabloid talk. Was he also referred to as a "bubbly blond"? FFS.

by Anonymousreply 119October 28, 2016 2:42 AM

r118 is right about the doctor saying that...

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by Anonymousreply 120October 28, 2016 2:56 AM

OT but R75, I just don't remember dimmer switches at the Club Baths!!!

by Anonymousreply 121October 28, 2016 3:03 AM

"He did a lot to spread AIDS. After he was diagnosed he continued to go to the bathhouses and bareback. Health care professionals told him he could be giving AIDS to his sexual partners but he said "it's their duty to protect themselves." He just didn't give a shit about other people. He was probably a sociopath."

Dugas was right about that. He died in the month before Margaret Heckler announced the discovery of the virus and the belief it caused AIDS. Until that announcement, there was no way to know what was causing the illness. Drugs were a candidate. Poppers were a candidate. Some said that ingesting too much cum caused AIDS. It was a lengthy list of possibilities that flew around between 1981 and 1984.

Without a known cause during his life time, what specific precautions could he have known to take? None, really.

by Anonymousreply 122October 28, 2016 3:09 AM

R122, by 1983-1984 there was already good evidence that it was spread sexually and by contact with blood. The least Dugas could have done in those years was wear a condom. In R65's clip, he is still asking how could he possibly warn potential partners if the medical community didn't have definitive information about how this was spread but they DID have strong suspicion and that should have been enough in the climate of so many young men dying horrible deaths.

by Anonymousreply 123October 28, 2016 3:15 AM

r122 Give it up, it has been mentioned e.g. that health care workers et.al. from high up told him that he was probably spreading the disease and virus, and with common sense he must have known it, too, yet he continued with his lethal behavior; he was a dangerous psychopath and very criminal and immoral. Don't know if there was an interest to contain AIDS and if there is an interest to cure it, but it could have been a somewhat small medical problem, if he and others wouldn't have spread it so extremely and so globally.

by Anonymousreply 124October 28, 2016 3:21 AM

SHRIEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEEEE EEEEEEEEKKKKKKKK

by Anonymousreply 125October 28, 2016 3:26 AM

"Without a known cause during his life time, what specific precautions could he have known to take? None, really."

He was TOLD that the "gay cancer" might be passed on through sexual contact. He could have at least toned down his promiscuity. But he refused to do that. He was a piece of shit.

by Anonymousreply 126October 28, 2016 3:28 AM

R125: born in the 90s and not a witness to what it was like watching HIV/AIDs ravage your community. Fuck your limited, PREP privileged persepctive.

by Anonymousreply 127October 28, 2016 3:30 AM

They didn't have proof. And he wasn't dead. It was hard to believe that you were going to die, and that everyone you slept with was going to die. He probably took some time to understand and accept that. BUT the public health authorities certainly had the authority to quarantine him. He was a foreigner, they could have locked him up or deported him or banned him from the country any time. So I don't believe any of it was as clear cut as that 60 minutes program and Shilts or that doctor said.

by Anonymousreply 128October 28, 2016 3:46 AM

But as mentioned, sexual contact was one of the things posited, alongside poppers, sweat etc. That time was a shitstorm. Even the term "gay cancer" probably made plenty of gay men skeptical about sex as the chief mode for spreading what was not yet even termed a virus.

by Anonymousreply 129October 28, 2016 3:48 AM

They should have got a fugly actor to play Dugas in And The Band Played On instead of handsome Jeffrey Nordling.

by Anonymousreply 130October 28, 2016 3:49 AM

I mean I don't think people realize how much power public health authorities in the US have. They can shut the borders between states. They can detain anyone and they don't even need proof. They can do almost anything.

by Anonymousreply 131October 28, 2016 3:50 AM

I recall reading somewhere that Dugas married an American woman around the time he started his flight attendant career in hopes of obtaining American citizenship. I don't know if that was confirmed.

by Anonymousreply 132October 28, 2016 3:55 AM

So much was unknown in those early years...

I can't say the Hep B vaccine urban legend (?) didn't make me think twice before getting the meningitis vaccine that LA County has urged all gay men to get. And no I'm not Jenny McCarthy or some anti-vaccination nut... just things that make you think twice.

As an aside, I had a gay uncle who was among the early wave of AIDS deaths in 1985. I learned years later, through another gay cousin, that he was a background extra in Cruising! Real handsome, Italian stallion, but of course closeted to family. When he died, it was all hush-hush, with my grandfather insisting he died of "pneumonia." Yeah, right. A big, strong 38 year-old-man just up and dying from pneumonia....

by Anonymousreply 133October 28, 2016 7:59 PM

Why was he referred to as "Patient O"? Shouldn't it have been Patient #1?

by Anonymousreply 134October 28, 2016 8:29 PM

R133, your uncle sounded hot!

by Anonymousreply 135October 28, 2016 9:24 PM

[quote]Why was he referred to as "Patient O"? Shouldn't it have been Patient #1?

Patient O was shortened reference to Patient Out of California. He was linked to clusters groups in LA and IIRC, he was well known among gay grounds in Silver Lake.

by Anonymousreply 136October 28, 2016 10:11 PM

Well thanks a fucking lot Mr. Gaeten fucking Dugas....knowing his pussy was infected with something sickly and that he should have tried not being such a whore.. But noooooooooo, he had to go whoring all across the globe, presenting his hole to anybody who would have him!

by Anonymousreply 137October 28, 2016 11:09 PM

Remember the attitude in the early 80s towards STDs still was quite casual, and no one knew what gay cancer was all about except it threatened to end fun sex and that. was. not. okay...

by Anonymousreply 138October 28, 2016 11:12 PM

[quote] But noooooooooo, he had to go whoring all across the globe, presenting his hole to anybody who would have him!

Pots, meet kettles!

by Anonymousreply 139October 29, 2016 12:09 AM

So, he didn't start AIDS, he just spread it without caring that he was murdering people, and it's a painful death, so, torturing them, too. Based on that, it's no matter that he didn't "start" it. Besides, that was always a metaphor, or simplification. I don't think anyone ever thought that he literally "started" AIDS.

by Anonymousreply 140October 29, 2016 12:43 AM

They didn't find any evidence of AIDS deaths in Cameroon in the early part of the twentieth century. In fact, they didn't find any evidence that AIDS came from chimps rather than being spread to chimps from humans.

by Anonymousreply 141October 29, 2016 12:43 AM

Gaetan Dugas' pussy stank!!!!

by Anonymousreply 142October 29, 2016 12:57 AM

Maybe if you're a gay man in the early 80s and your doctor tells you that you're sick (but you feel mostly fine)with a "gay" disease you've never heard of, that apparently has no cure, then insists you need to stop having sex with other men you might be suspicious of his motives and of everything he's telling you. It wouldn't be the first time someone has told you your lifestyle wasnt ok and that you need to stop. You'd might be pissed because you feel judged, you might even say things you don't mean. You might doubt the diagnosis and continue living your life exactly as it was until it becomes obvious that you really are dying. Who knows.

by Anonymousreply 143October 29, 2016 2:34 AM

I still believe it was man-made.

by Anonymousreply 144October 29, 2016 2:37 AM

I was diagnosed with Guttate Psoriasis about 1982. For some reason, even the doctors didn't quite know what I had. In the waiting room, I read one of the first articles on AIDS in the Journal of whatever it is, JAMA, I think. Scary at the time.

Fortunately, my Guttate Psoriasis only lasts a few months. Sunlight makes it go away (and a steroid cream. I could pay a doctor the co-pay for multiple UV treatment visits, or go to a tanning salon to treat it, so easy choice there. The second time I go it, I told the doctor what it was, and what it is often mistaken for, and he diagnosed me with the thing it is mistaken for. So I stopped going there.

Warning, the pics may be disturbing.

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by Anonymousreply 145October 29, 2016 3:02 AM

BUMP

by Anonymousreply 146October 29, 2016 3:04 AM

Oh, come on. Dugas was a shitheel. He didn't give a fuck about anybody but himself. I have no idea why anybody would have wanted to fuck him in the first place. I guess back in the day if a guy had a cock, an asshole, a pie-hole and a heartbeat he was considered fuckable. I don't know if that still holds true today. I hope not.

by Anonymousreply 147October 29, 2016 4:12 AM

He was an airline steward. What the fuck do you expect?

by Anonymousreply 148October 29, 2016 4:20 AM

The virus was really spread by an out of contro, sexually promiscuous lesbian.

by Anonymousreply 149October 29, 2016 4:25 AM

The ignorant word back in the day was that he had had sex with a monkey and boom, origin of AIDS.

by Anonymousreply 150October 29, 2016 4:31 AM

Given the death of Dr. Grethe Raske, I'm surprised they haven't tried that one R149

by Anonymousreply 151October 29, 2016 4:56 AM

Dugas was selfish, if nothing else

by Anonymousreply 152October 29, 2016 5:01 PM

[quote] Maybe if you're a gay man in the early 80s and your doctor tells you that you're sick (but you feel mostly fine)with a "gay" disease you've never heard of, that apparently has no cure, then insists you need to stop having sex with other men you might be suspicious of his motives and of everything he's telling you.

At the time he was diagnosed, he must've developed KS, Pneymocystis Carinii (or whatever it's called), or a host of opportunistic infections. It was way before asymptomatic carriers were even known so I really doubt he was feeling mostly fine.

by Anonymousreply 153October 29, 2016 5:28 PM

A selfish gay man??? Inconceivable!!

by Anonymousreply 154October 29, 2016 5:34 PM

impossible

by Anonymousreply 155October 30, 2016 7:46 PM

No, it was that Norwegian sailor who started it.

by Anonymousreply 156October 30, 2016 11:45 PM

No, it was a bufty(gay butt fucker)landlord who used to live in the east village. He used to fuck all the down on their luck junkies, fags and drag queens in lieu of the rent.

by Anonymousreply 157May 2, 2018 8:51 PM

It was Harvey Milk, he was like the Typhoid Mary of the early aids epidemic. What he would do is offer shelter to poor runaways and young gay urchins, then he would butt fuck them and infect them with HIV. In 1968 Harvey took a trip to St Louis, and had sex with a young black hustler named Robert Rayford. This poor young man was one of the first men to die fron AIDS.

Harvey took many trips in the following years across the United States spreading the virus before finally settling in the Castro district of San Francisco.

by Anonymousreply 158May 2, 2018 10:18 PM

R58 An older gay acquaintance had told me around 1981-82 during when the gay cancer scare began in the gay community about his recollection of so-called medics going around gay bars in the mid to late 1970s giving out free hepatitis vaccines. Several in the gay community were suspecting that the vaccines may have been the culrit for spreading out whatever was causing gay men to become ill. At the time researchers still weren't sure if it was in fact a virus that was causing AIDS or even how it spread exactly, although blood contact was suspected. Just about everybody I knew who was gay from the 1980s ended up dying from HIV.

by Anonymousreply 159May 3, 2018 1:59 AM

R159: That's very interesting, did these "medics" show any documentation or did they just offer vaccinations?

by Anonymousreply 160May 3, 2018 3:12 AM

R160 Of course nobody asked for any documentation. This was in the 1970s gay community and peopel were more trusting and naive. Nobody really knows what was in those so-called vaccines or whether it was a ruse to infect gay men, and we'll likely never know.

by Anonymousreply 161May 13, 2018 11:35 AM

In the,decade before AIDS, promiscuous guys must have been getting a lot of other STDs. Even though there were antibiotics to treat those, I wonder if some people decided to change their behavior or reduce the number of their contacts, to lessen their chances of getting those STDs. Anyone know about that?

by Anonymousreply 162May 13, 2018 1:03 PM

My older brother came out and lived in New York from the mid-60’s to the mid-90’s. In the 70’s he volunteered with other gay men as guinea pigs for the Hepatitis B vaccine, which proved effective. (At that time, Hep B was considered a great scourge, especially since the strain could stay virulent, even dried on a surface, for up to three weeks.)

In the mid-80’s the outfit that conducted the experiment contacted the gay men involved, notified them that they still had frozen samples of their blood from the 70’s, and requested permission to test these for HIV. My brother reported that about half of them learned they’d been positive since then, though a statistic above said it was less than that, 6.6 per cent.

I received the Hep B vaccine, in three separate doses, back in 1986. I have no idea if it was constructed from serum from gay men. So far, I have tested negative for HIV since then.

Though gay promiscuity was certainly more visible back then, I actually don't think that has really changed as much as some might think. The only difference now is that men are doing it online. Promiscuity has retreated underground.

by Anonymousreply 163May 13, 2018 3:20 PM

Patient Zero wasn't a man, it was my friend, Julie. She's such a cunt.

by Anonymousreply 164May 13, 2018 4:53 PM

Africa -> Caribbean -> Florida -> truckers -> The rest of the United States

by Anonymousreply 165May 13, 2018 6:42 PM

He wasn't patient zero. He was patient sociopath asshole

by Anonymousreply 166May 14, 2018 12:09 AM

It doesn't matter because in the end his life's work was summed up by R2. He's not worthy of image rehab.

by Anonymousreply 167May 14, 2018 12:12 AM
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