Man on PrEP Contracts HIV

how would they know? I thought Prep made levels undetectable.

Here comes the anti-PrEP brigade in 3...2...1...

Ooopsie!

A condom +/- Prep is a common sense way to have safer sex and it keeps your dick cleaner.

You fuck everyone your partner has ever fucked and there's an easy way to obtain a potential lays sexual history:

Look at his shoes

Somebody who wears cheap ugly shoes fucks cheap ugly guys. If he has no respect for his footwear, he has no respect for himself and he'll fuck anything. Avoid.

Lesson's over. I'm off to cat videos.

[quote]Somebody who wears cheap ugly shoes fucks cheap ugly guys. If he has no respect for his footwear, he has no respect for himself and he'll fuck anything. Avoid.

Wow. I've read some stupid shit on the DL, but this, this is something special. if someone has expensive shoes it means they don't carry STIs and if is safer to sleep with them. There is no point in even ranting, I'll just let that sit there.

I love you R4.

Just a matter of time.

Only one case and we don't know if he adhered to his Meds dosage.

Condoms aren't foolproof either and abstinence is untenable.

I agree with R8. There's no proof that this person took his dose on a daily basis. Only his word (and, like, of course he's going to say that).

R8 and r10 are Right. Which is why you can't ever have sex without a condom, and a condom with prep is just as effective as a condom alone.

Prep is and was a bad idea, lulling queens into a false sense of security and invulnerability. It needs to be taken off the market.

See we could have been called The Shoes

The article states that he has a strain known to be resistant to Prep.

The fuck, that is the whole point R10, at least to me. I have never doubted the value of these chemicals in fighting HIV, I am a biochemist and understand the process well. It is the HUMAN FACTOR that has always worried me and always will. 95% of the population is not responsible enough to adhere properly to medication, including me and I don't care if you do.

You're hysterical, R14. Calm the fuck down.

No, r15, r14 is right. Even lifelong type 1 diabetics who need to take insulin daily to prevent DYING aren't 100% compliant. How can you expect some dizzy, drunk, drug addled 25 year old queen to be complaint?

The company behind prep needs to go out of business. Period.

I never said that I expect anything from anyone, dude. I just noted that in this particular case, we don't know the true level of adherence to the daily dose. Nowhere in my post did I state that people are 100% compliant.

(Although, as a side-note, I've only missed one pill in three years, so it is possible to get damn near close to 100% compliance.

Viruses mutate. This was inevitable.

[quote] 95% of the population is not responsible enough to adhere properly to medication, including me and I don't care if you do.

Exactly. This also explains antibiotic-resistant strains; people overuse them or do not take properly ("I feel well so I stopped"), allowing the bacteria strains to go stronger but in this case viral strains become more resistant.

People thinking this is a way to have unlimited unprotected sex, without consequences, are sadly mistaken !! Prep isn't a license to bareback safely.I

[quote]“This person claims he was taking PrEP every day and I believe him,” said Grant.

[quote]Pharmacy records indicated that the man in the case study had consistently filled his Truvada prescription on schedule. Dried blood-spot testing on a sample taken 16 days after he tested positive for HIV indicated that he had adhered well to Truvada during the previous one to two months, a period that overlapped with the estimated time when he contracted the virus.

Robert M. Grant, MD, MPH, a professor at the University of California, San Francisco, who was the head of the iPrEx trial that first proved PrEP’s effectiveness among MSM and transgender women in 2010.

They can always switch to other drugs besides Truvada

overblown

R23, Truvada is the only agent approved by the FDA for HIV prophylaxis, which is key to getting insurance to cover its cost.

R16's reasoning is why Trump is winning.

My fave commercial for PreP of all time!

Wear condoms. Make sure your partner wears a condom.

Being a pass around bareback party boy is never a good idea.

I don't think this part is overblown at all...

[quote]What is more rare is a virus that is highly resistant to both tenofovir and emtricitabine, as in this new case report. Indeed, according to Grant, among more than 9,200 participants in the clinical trials of PrEP, such a virus that was highly resistant to both components of Truvada was never seen.

Jul 16, 2012t- FDA Approves Truvada for Reducing the Risk of Sexually Acquired HIV Infection

Aug 2, 2004t- Truvada Gilead Sciences, Inc. - Treatment for HIV Infection

The patent for Truvada will run out in December 2017. How convenient for Gilead that resistant strains are now popping up...and the market will shift to one of their newer on-patent drugs, due to the resistance.

PhDs & MBAs together are a lethal combo.

It's NOT like the man is going to die. He just goes on to a different meds regime.

R29, that's probably true, unlike the absolute certainty that you're a moron.

[quote]There's no proof that this person took his dose on a daily basis.

As R22 posted, blood tests indicate that the patient adhered to the recommended drug regimen.

I hope it wasn't combined with this guy's strain. I'm not even joking (though I know this would be unlikely). My concern is that if these kinds of strains pop up randomly here and there - it's like 1980 all over again. More people have it than just these 2 guys (how many don't go to doctors, etc...) ...and if so many people are using PrEP to prevent it - and it's completely resistant - we're not even going to know for a few years how bad it might have been.

PrEP has only been around for 3 years and managed to create this mutant strain...what an idiotic use of resources to conduct trials with it and assume it wouldn't ever develop resistance. People who are HIV+ need the drug...and maybe their partners too (assuming they are negative and a resistance test is done).

R31 He skipped dosage, hence the drug resistant strain.

You can blame this guy all you want, but if he got a resistant type of HIV, chances are he didnt get by missing HIS doses. That is what people dont get. If guy A is On/Off On/Off and creates a resistant strain, then anyone he has sex with can get that strain which is automatically resistant to the PREP they are on...... No matter how compliant they are.

In other words, being responsible with your meds dose not in any way stop you from getting a resistant strain of anything. Your meds only work on the original strain the drug was designed for.

Right now, it's a rare occurrence, but you know how this story goes !!

Mmhmm ... R35

Thank you for being a Whore

[quote]He skipped dosage, hence the drug resistant strain.

Wrong, he acquired it from a sex partner.

I think R34 meant that this guy (who just got HIV while on PrEP) had sex with a non-compliant person with a resistant strain.

If he didn't mean that - sorry - but either way, that is another scenario (possibly a worse one, if it's circulating).

How much of a whore was this guy??

He contracted double-drug-resistant HIV, while on PrEP, when the chance of getting HIV from one completely unprotected episode of receptive anal sex is about 1.4 percent.

What a shock... the man likes to bareback and is obviously a cum dump. So to satisfy his sexual needs (unwrapped cock up his hole, letting the top shoot his load while still up in his ass), he goes on PrEP... and now he's HIV+.

Who would have thought this would EVER happen? Oh, wait a minute, me. I'm in no way surprised.

I wish there was a way to force this guy to pay for his lifetime supply of meds that are now required to keep him alive.

I know, I know, I'm a terrible and heartless person/bitch/sex prude (blah, blah, blah)... not. I'm 53, a top, only fuck wearing a condom and never cum while still pounding away. You know why? Because I remember the late 80s and 90s. I was told the safest way to have sex is with a condom and pull out before you shoot a load. Oh and one other reason - I wouldn't want to be the guy who infected someone else with a terminal illness (oh, sorry a "chronic disease" for the sensitive).

Yea, there have been bottoms who were pissed when I insisted on wearing a rubber if I was going to be fucking their ass and you what? As far as I'm concerned they had no respect for themselves or their health. I left having no respect for them either.

Now he can have worry free bareback sex.

Its been an established fact for 30 yrs that condoms prevent HIV transmission. Cheap, effective, no side effects, no regimen.

The "but condoms break!" hysteria is just that. Buy quality, buy frequently. They dont break often enough to be discarded as a means of protection.

Why would anyone bareback, even with Prep? All kinds of diseases, now inc a resistant HIV strain (which will spread like wildfire, no doubt). I just don't see the reward vs the risk.

We are so inviting the next STD pandemic.

R43 Condoms not only break, they come off easily during sex too. Abstinence is best.

Gays are allowing themselves to be guinea pigs for big pharma. These drugs have no long term histories yet.

Risk worth taking for bb sex.

[quote]Yea, there have been bottoms who were pissed when I insisted on wearing a rubber if I was going to be fucking their ass and you what? As far as I'm concerned they had no respect for themselves or their health. I left having no respect for them either.

Yeah, especially lately with PrEP. I missed out on a few guys because they INSISTED on sex only with no condoms... cuz they were "on prep" - no thanks. So annoying. Even non-STIs can be acquired if you top w/o condoms... I've had non G/C UTIs before... not from anal, even...random irritations through oral is my doctors' best guesses. It's annoying - and cipro to treat it caused worse side effects. Using condoms for oral,though...I don't think I'll ever be one of those guys. That only happened to me once with a married guy who was crazy.

Why do bottoms insist on no condoms? I don't get it. It doesn't feel different with or without.

Thank God I'm middle-aged now and my sex drive is dead. Growing up in the AIDS era, sex and relationships were only the source of anxiety and pain. I could never enjoy sex out of fear of dying from it, and can't be bothered now.

R48 Condom breaks more often than this one instance of prep guy contracting HIV

[quote]If he has no respect for his footwear, he has no respect for himself and he'll fuck anything. Avoid.

This is seriously one of the craziest things I have ever read here. I'm pretty sure there are whores and sluts with all kinds of STIs who wear expensive shoes.

I think it's just DL snark. It made me laugh.

I am glad that we live in an age where information like this can spread quickly. I'd also be curious for this guy to protect his anonymity but to give some insight into his sexual practices and amount of partners. Although I guess it doesn't matter. The drug is not 100%. It's up to PreP users to use some precaution and screening with those they have sex with--just like straight people do.

Why are so many gay men afraid of monogamy? Yes, I know some partners have made mistakes, but what about the ones who didn't and stayed HIV-negative? They're the ones we should be holding up as role models.

Let's be clear here. The guy who seroconverted/was on PrEP acquired a strain resistant to tonofovir and emtricitabine (Truvada) from another guy who had developed resistance to those two drugs, probably from not adhering to his regimen despite the fact that he was HIV+. That is one of the risks with PrEP -- that if you come across the strain that is resistant to tonofovir and emtricitabine, the fact that you're taking Truvada isn't going to stop transmission of the virus. But that is also one of the strengths of the prophylaxis, in that Truvada is no longer the go-to or only drug cocktail for HIV+ people.

I think we all need to calm down and stop throwing epithets at, blaming and shaming guys who want to use PrEP. It is ironic that the same people who screech about always using condoms also screech about PrEP, as though they are mutually exclusive, and simultaneously, that condoms are 100% effective. Here's a fact: nothing is 100% effective at preventing HIV transmission with the singular exception of abstinence (which is like saying you should stop eating in order to prevent food poisoning).

We knew it was only a matter of time until someone on PrEP seroconverted. It would be a serious issue if we were not doing any further research on HIV meds, treatment and prevention. But we are, and constantly developing new drug regimens. When I asked my doctor about PrEP and the long-term viability of using drugs to prevent transmission, specifically whether the drugs would remain effective for the long term compliant, he laughed and reminded me that viruses mutate, drugs become less effective and over time, ineffective at all.

The bottom line is that I'd rather have a preponderance of gay guys on PrEP, have to constantly modify the regimen, and continue to do research and development on HIV drugs than have one more guy seroconvert due to ignorance, fear or shame.

It's been said in the gay community back in the 80's before & bears repeating = "All sluts will be HIV+ sluts". Just accept the fact & move on.

This sounds like when people insist that they adhered strictly to a diet but still gained weight.

R55 - You're an idiot. You'd rather every gay man take a pill or the rest of their lives than have them be responsible and use condoms? You sound like PR from Gilead. Just fucking use condoms, with prep or without it.

It's easy and it is NOT a burden .

[quote]The bottom line is that I'd rather have a preponderance of gay guys on PrEP, have to constantly modify the regimen, and continue to do research and development on HIV drugs than have one more guy seroconvert due to ignorance, fear or shame.

Wow r55 you have a talent for saying nothing, yet sounding reasonable.

The bottom line is that Truvada as PrEP is not the shield of armor they sold us, as predicted here a few weeks ago when it was posted that public health pros were saying Tenofovir-resistant strains of HIV had emerged.

The bottom line that you'd 'rather have a preponderance of gay guys on prep' suggests you care more about market share than about the spread of HIV.

We don't know how many people have this resistant strain, but the MDs on the front lines described its prevalence as 'alarming'.

That makes truvada prep much much less effective, and much less appealing. But people like you will still try to sell us on it. Why?

This is slightly off topic, but I once heard there were "MTV" Parties

- Meth

- Tenofovir

- Viagra (cuz I guess your dick doesn't stay hard on meth?)

Anyway, this was sort of proto-prep.. and gross... and probably spread plenty of things - but I never knew if it was true or just some weird thing made up and spread around.

There is no way to make having promiscuous anal sex healthy and safe. Nature and anatomy does not allow it to be so.

R56 I've never heard that and I don't think it's necessarily 100% true, but the vast majority of sluts I've known in my life have acquired HIV or other bad STDs (syphillis, gonorrhea, hepatitis).

Wear condoms. It's not that difficult. You can't take Prep and then think you're free to bareback anyone like fucking Superman. There are way too many guys who are doing this.

Yes. Let's keep spending billions on developing drugs so gay men can continue to shirk personal responsibility.

Man on prep can become man on HIV meds, what's the difference??

R63 Condom breakage

[quote]Man on prep can become man on HIV meds, what's the difference??

The difference is that HIV- guys were told if they went and got prescriptions for this $13000 drug they wouldn't have to worry about contracting HIV. They (we) were lied to. You can get HIV, because HIV has found a way to infect despite Truvada PrEP.

Truvada PrEP should be illegal, now that the virus has outsmarted it.

Yep, HIV is very robust and adaptive. It finds a way to infect people having anal sex with a bunch of different partners. Condoms, PrEP, etc, it's still a high risk activity. Life is more important than promiscuous anal sex with people you barely know, certainly don't love.

To turn it around, I'd rather see all HIV+ men on ART drugs to limit their viral load than to have everyone else take a drug. If you were irresponsible enough to catch HIV, at least take the damn drugs.

R67 Congrats, there's a lot of idiots on this board but you are a special brand of moron. Yes, let's take 40,000 guys who are HIV- off the drug (many of whom are high risk) because one user contracted the virus. There is something very wrong with you.

Youre the idiot (and shill) r70. You're a fucking dishonest hypocrite to say 'because ONE USER' contracted the virus. One user that we know about so far. There will be more.

If 40,000 guys are 'high risk' this drug will not make them lower their risks. This drug, and people like you, will make them think they can take greater risks they might not otherwise take, falsely believing Truvada PrEP will protect them. If you want those 40000 guys to lower their risk, you know full well how to do it. Why are you selling us on the failed PrEP strategy?

Anyone who thinks taking this drug will prevent HIV infection is being misled by marketers. HIV has outsmarted, as predicted, but way sooner than I expected.

The FDA should not allow Truvada PrEP as HIV prevention.

I wonder how many got HIV due to condom not working, I'm sure it's more than one.

It feels very different for me, r48. Getting fucked with a rubber on burns like a bitch after a couple of minutes. I never let casual tricks fuck me because of it.

Isn't is still better than not taking it? Sure, there will always be mutating strains of the virus, but if you can afford it, and you detest condoms, it seems like it at least gives you a pretty fair chance of staying healthy. And god forbid you don't(stay healthy) you must accept the consequences.

These are all desperate attempts to prevent people who are sex addicts and plain sluts from living with the natural consequences of their bad behavior, but no matter what, they tend to fail. STDs and HIV find a way to infect a large number of them no matter what scientists attempt. They should just tell people, "you wanna live a slutty life, be prepared to die because of it." That is the most medically response notice you can give addicts.

Thank god for R71, the voice of reason. You're my kind of guy.

I lived through the 80s, R56, and the only people I heard saying that were straight. And/or fucking stupid.

Who are all these special snowflakes that detest condoms? Waah! My latte's cold! Waah! I've grown to have zero sympathy for guys who seroconvert in this day and age with all that we know about HIV.

It is EASY to avoid contracting HIV. Wear a condom and use more lube. Fucking bunch of babies.

There are so many drugs and drug classes to treat HIV, and even as we speak they are pursuing more avenues. My guess is PrEP will turn into Isentress in a few years, as Truvada resistance creeps up to 5-10% which will be an unacceptable risk by 2019-2021. Isentress has a low side effect profile and is used in PEP. The PIs tend to be worse with side effects.

It's unfortunate that this happened 2 years before Truvada went off-patent... but I guess Gilead is happy because now the can move people to more expensive drugs (tho Isentress is by Merck).

I am not on PrEP & do not have enough sex to be - nor do I want the side effects. I had to take Truvada for PEP due to a fuck up (1 in 20 years!) and found it highly unpleasant...though they say the first 30 days are the worst (PEP is 28 days).

I know we bash millennials a lot, but I need to pile on with regard to this. They seem to be more obsessed with PrEP than anyone. If you say ONE negative thing about it to anyone under 30 - they start screeching statistics from the iPrex study like they are fucking microbiologists. NRTIs were possibly responsible for a lot of facial wasting and lipodystrophy, and nobody knows what 20 years of Truvada will do. When I used to tell people under 30 that the Prep party wouldn't last forever due to resistance, they would go ape shit.

What kind of attitude is "oh I can move on to other HIV meds then"? There is just something off about saying that and I can't put my finger on what it is exactly. I am glad there are options to combat HIV, but there it just something wrong with having such casual attitude toward it.

I agree with the following statements/points = R58, R59, R63, R64, R65, R67, R68, R69, R71, R75.

R76. Smart gay/bi men use to say it back then too (as well as some straight people)I . Believing it probably kept a lot of gay/bi men alive (including me).

"The fucking stupid "ones are the guys who doubted or outright dismissed it (& kept being reckless sluts) & now they're in the ground or are in an urn that's on someone's shelf right now.

If dead bodies could talk, many would probably wish they could be given a do over. Gay/bi men have to get it right the first time because there are no do overs with a fatal virus.

I got my driver's license & diploma after AIDS came onto the scene & I avoided slutty gay/bi men like the eventual plague they would fall prey to. As a result, I've never been to an AIDS funeral nor even know of a single person who has become HIV+ & I'm in my late 40's now. Unfortunately, people both in our community & straights are shocked by this fact whenever the AIDS subject comes up.

We're not all reckless sluts. With reasonable precautions (like condoms & MONOGAMY), a nice happy life can be achieved for gay/bi men worldwide. If only they would set a long lifespan, health & happiness as their top 3 priorities like I (& others) did back in the 80's. The recently released HIV stats from the CDC wouldn't be as dire as they are now predicting.

What we are all ignoring is that he was not diagnosed the minute he sero-converted. How many guys did he infect before his diagnosis? You can fuck a lot of guys in the three months between tests.

If we could drop the whole moralistic promiscuity bullshit, it would be great.

The fact remains that we have a new class of drugs that deserves skepticism. We don't know long term effects of the drug. We don't know how the drug reacts to antivirals long term in those with HIV. It's presented as a miracle and we know those only come at a steep price (see Oscars and Halle Bary). It's one thing to use this to include sero-converted members of our tribe into mainstream dating. It's disingenuous to tell negative people they are safe.

We also have a method (condoms)for safer sex that is cheap, readily available to everyone regardless of income, and has proven to decrease significantly new cases of HIV. Plus it allows for those who are HIV+ to still have fun with those who are HIV-.

'Somebody who wears cheap ugly shoes fucks cheap ugly guys. If he has no respect for his footwear, he has no respect for himself and he'll fuck anything. Avoid.'

#DLherooftheday

R78 - I should've clarified this is not MY attitude. I am not on prep and do not want to be... but this is, I suspect, what will happen in 3-5 years. 40,000+ people seem determined to take some kind of pill to prevent HIV...and I don't think they are going to change their minds.

Reminds me of that line from Silence of the Lambs, "..with your good bag and your cheap shoes..."

[QUOTE]I got my driver's license & diploma after AIDS came onto the scene & I avoided slutty gay/bi men like the eventual plague they would fall prey to. As a result, I've never been to an AIDS funeral nor even know of a single person who has become HIV+ & I'm in my late 40's now. Unfortunately, people both in our community & straights are shocked by this fact whenever the AIDS subject comes up.

You sound just a bit too proud of this fact. I'd hardly call it something to brag about that you've never known anyone who passed away from AIDS. I'm sure the "shock" you're reading on people's faces when you bring up this fact is embarrassment for you that you're wearing it as some badge of honor of your purity and good reason.

It's such a simple thing to use a condom during sex. And the benefits of using one are enormous; they help prevent pregnancy STDs. So what is the big fucking problem with using one? Is taking pills considered more preferable? But as someone pointed out, most people are incredibly irresponsible when it comes to taking daily medication. What are people so lazy and stupid when it comes to sex?

[quote] It's been said in the gay community back in the 80's before & bears repeating = "All sluts will be HIV+ sluts"

Errr, well... [R56] ... If only bears were repeating it, no wonder the muscle queens never heard it...

So many voices with opposing advice ... but I hope that young gay men listen to the words of wisdom to use condoms and avoid sex with HIV positive guys.

It's a winning combination. And, if a condom breaks/falls off during anal, get to your nearest clinic for PEP (post-exposure prophylactic.)

Who are the pro-PrEP voices? Big pharma. They want to make money off of illness and death. The other communities pushing young gay men onto PrEP are the HIV positive guys who want to fuck them. They can't stand the rejection and want even more and more sex partners. (Case in point: Jack Mackenroth.) They want to make condom-free sex hot, and to remove the stigma of being HIV positive. They are quick to dismiss any side effects and think that sero-discordant couples are a perfect match.

Dear young HIV-negative gay men ... stay far far away from them.

The other people pushing PrEP: Gay media who make money off of big pharma advertising. Gay porn companies: they want an endless supply of naive twentysomething to get bred in front of their cameras for less then $2,000 per scene. Porn companies also want negative actors to think they can just pop a pill, do a bareback orgy, and then go home to their boyfriend (or girlfriend.)

One last time for young HIV-negative gay men ... Use condoms and avoid sex with HIV positive guys.

All you guys calling mean "sluts" and "whores" sound like Republicans, honestly. There's nothing wrong with having multiple partners if you're guarding your sexual health by using protection.

And to the monogamy queens out there: I highly doubt your partner is as "monogamous" as you think he is.

*men

[quote] They can't stand the rejection and want even more and more sex partners (Case in point: Jack Mackenroth)

Oh, no you didn't R88 ... Tsk tsk

Yes, you did and I love it...

Some gossip levity to this conversation... Make a long story short... Around 2011 when PrEP didn't even exist, I had a friend from Spain visiting and staying over with me... He did the usual Grindr, Manhunt stuff... Without knowing who he was, he hit up JACK MACKENROTH, who looked a lot less Burt Reynolds-ish than he does now, clinging to the last vestige of his youth... Anyhow... Back then... When there was no prep, Jack's immediate response to my friend was "YOU FUCK RAW?" on Manhunt.

And PrEP didn't even exist and he was a known poz.

So, you're right.

Condoms save lives.

And they'll continue to save them as long as we use them!

Proud condom user since I lost my virginity in 1997. Nothin' in my medicine cabinet but asprin.

R79, I appreciate that ultimately you're telling everyone to stay safe and be careful, as am I, but the reason you're still alive is because you used condoms or you were just lucky, not because you avoided "slutty men". You have no idea who someone else has been with or whether they're infected or not. It's an indiscriminate virus, not a moral judgement.

Why is it "unfortunate" (your word) that people are shocked by you not knowing anyone with AIDS? I'll tell you why: because if you're in your late 40s and you've never known anyone with AIDS, you must have had your head buried in the fucking sand. I'm 52 and lived through those times too, and you couldn't swing a stick without hitting someone who was infected. I've known hundreds of men with AIDS. I was one of hundreds of volunteers who would help out men who had NOBODY, who had NOTHING. I went to so many funerals, I stopped counting. So all that was happening all around you and yet YOU managed to avoid and see none of it.

Guys, if you're on PrEP, use condoms.

And if you're young and don't know anything about gay history, learn.

And when someone around you gets sick, be a good friend and help them.

R85 is right.

I won't speak for other dudes here who have never had STDs because they steadfastly avoided slutty or indiscriminate men, but I will speak for myself. I not only prescreened, got to know perspective well, and avoided slutty men, but I kept my lifetime male sex partners to a grand total of three, including my husband. My husband was just like me in this regard, sharing my sexual and moral values. He too has never had an STD. We lived our values, and the notion that contracting an STD or sleeping with men who thought it was acceptable to contract one was unacceptable to us. It meant not only not sleeping with slutty men, but also reserving sex for a limited number of men who shared our values. It has been so worth it. Best wishes to those who live out those values.

R93 - I love you.

I have a friend who contracted HIV after using condoms. He says he was very promiscuous, and was not very selective in his partners. He is very sick much of the time, and I have seen him in the hospital in ICU recently. He is now going around telling people he wishes he would have listened to people who used to advice him to slow down, settle down, and stop living around. He blames his promiscuity on getting the disease and goes around advising people that sleeping around is not safe no matter how much you use condoms. He says that gay men worship promiscuous sex that kills them and makes them sick. He notes that almost everyone he knows that has HIV was promiscuous, was depressed, or had a substance abuse problem when they contracted the disease. He has a point.

How much sex do you need to have to be on Prep...for the uncertain x certain side effects to be worth it (and the minimal cost - after gilead's copay discount)

What do you think?

Fat old sex negative shut ins can rejoice.

You lie with dogs, you get fleas. Basic common sense.

[quote]Isn't is still better than not taking it? Sure, there will always be mutating strains of the virus, but if you can afford it, and you detest condoms, it seems like it at least gives you a pretty fair chance of staying healthy.

How can you say that r74? None of us know how prevalent resistance is, so how do you conclude truvada prep 'gives you a pretty fair chance'? I agree with others who say prep makes guys bareback who probably wouldn't without it.

I'm amazed at DL's collective expertise on this topic. As soon as it came out people said this would happen, and sadly it did.

R96 provides the wisdom in W&W.

r96, everyone i've known who got HIV recently has had drug issues. It's not like the 80s/90s where people just got sick and died. We know better now.

There seems to be a big divide between the worried well and the guys who are reckless with substances and their own bodies. The problem with prep is the first group is the target market, the majority, and they depend on the second group for it all to work, and the second group is not dependable.

Is this person Danny Pintauro or Frankie Grande?

People who contract HIV today are largely people who are compulsive, addicted, promiscuous, impulsive, and unrestrained in their behavior, and not just sexually. There are exceptions, but I am talking about the general rule, not the exception here. As such, to expect this high risk group to be responsible enough to comply with their medicine regimen is naive and reckless in itself.

R104 - I totally agree. Someone had said this in another thread years ago about S&M, but I believe it's true about barebacking.

There is no amount of barebacking sex or whoring in the world that will improve your self esteem or cure you of your internal struggles.

Well said, I think.

Except people like you R104 and R105 when you find out I am HIV positive you assume I am part of that reckless group until you find out I have been living with HIV for 25 years. I got it when they were still in the midst of figuring it out. If I meet someone new, even a friend and tell them I am HIV pos, right away they assume its my fault for being promiscuous when in fact I got it from the first guy I ever met. I should not have to explain that I got it decades ago just so you dont lump me in with an entire group based on assumptions.

Sorry you get smeared with the slut brush, r106. I realize that people can get HIV through no fault of their own- not even condoms are 99% effective. Most people I know who have serocoverted in the last 20 years got it because they had substance abuse issues. I don't blame them for bad decisions made in the throws of addiction, but I'm not going to let them fuck me either. Happy to be friends, but not willing to take the risk of sex.

No frigging surprise here.

And it's the attitudes and ignorant remarks of those r98s of the world who are truly 100% responsible for the upswing of the disease. Vile people, every one of them.

I hope you guys get herpes.

[quote] Sorry you get smeared............... I don't blame them....Happy to be friends, but not willing to take the risk of sex.

So basically it you are looking for an excuse not to have sex with someone who is HIV pos instead of dealing with your own fears. You have found a way to justify this by assuming they were 99% drug users making bad choices. But yet, if someone was pos from no fault of their own, you still would not have sex with them. Am I right? Whats your excuse at that point?

R98 Telling people to wear a condom isn't the same as telling people to NOT have sex.

No, I wouldn't knowingly have penetrative sex with someone who is HIV positive, period. Even with a condom. I'm just not willing, and yes, it all has to do with my own fear. Call me prejudiced or sex-phobic or whatever you want, but it's my right to choose who I will and who I won't bottom for. A recent test showing you are negative AND a condom is my "bottom" line.

Saying this, I don't make everyone I fool around with show me their test results. The chances of getting HIV via oral sex are low enough to be statically zero, so at those odds I'm ok with.

Exclusive tops cannot get HIV.

[quote]Call me prejudiced or sex-phobic or whatever you want, but it's my right

No one said it was not your right, but glad you acknowledge what you are....sex-phobic.

I am guessing you are over 50. Things have changed since the 80's you know. Guys who are POS can be undetectable and your risk is virtually 0. In fact, straight couples can now have kids without passing it on if the partner who is POS is undetectable.

R115 , I'm not who you quoted, but people like you are why HIV is rampant in the first place.

You're trying to make it seem like it's no big deal. People are out here trying to pretend it's nothing more than a constant flu or some shit.

Can't believe I'd see the day that people are attacking others for not wanting to get HIV???

PS. I'm under 30, before you guess I'm ancient, just because I'm disgusted with your attitude.

Thank you r116. I have a chronic, non-communicable health condition that doesn't have any visible symptoms yet (under 50, thank you) but I will most certainly develop them as I age. If after I disclose my condition someone chooses not to date me, I don't yell "sex phobic bigot", rather I respect their right to choose not to be a future caregiver, and no matter how great HIV drugs are now, at some point, if you are in a relationship with a pos man, you will most likely be his caregiver as he ages. I would never want some to be with me dreading the day my health turns... And it will for me, and it will for positive guys as well. This has been documented in numerous studies.

[quote]So basically it you are looking for an excuse not to have sex with someone who is HIV pos instead of dealing with your own fears.

Not looking for an excuse. My REASON would be that sex with someone with HIV could give it to me. Why do you think this is wrong? If you are HIV+ isn't your first concern not to spread the virus? If not why not?

I'm personally willing and have hooked up with guys I know are HIV+, but I completely understand why some guys would not. You are a fool if you don't accept that some guys are not going to want to hook up with a pos guy.

r111 isn't a fear of catching HIV a legitimate fear? Why do you say it like it's a bad thing?

Nobody should be surprised by this. It's not some magic pill or medication that completely prevents someone from getting HIV.

As others have noted, Prep lulls men into thinking they are protected from contracting HIV and emboldens some of them to engage in frequent bareback sex when they might not have without the drug. Bad idea-for all the reasons already stated. Be safe out there-use condoms and plenty of lube!

Delta 32 genetic testing to determine if you may be AIDS resistant/immune

I can't start threads, and hope that if someone reads this and thinks it's worthwhile they will start one, as I did a few searches and have never seen this particular topic addressed. I'm not a scientist, so please forgive my layman's recitation, and please know that my main reason for wanting this information more widely known (if it's not already) is to give anyone living in fear of contracting AIDS a way to put some of that fear to rest. Also, I am in no way suggesting that safe sex should not still be practiced to avoid contracting STIs.

The PBS series 'Secrets of the Dead' episode S03E02 'Mystery of the Black Death' (found the episode on YouTube) seems to maintain that those with Delta 32 genes were, apparently, immune to the Black Death. Researchers of the Black Death determined that survivors having one Delta 32 gene caught the Black Death but survived, and those having two Delta 32 genes never caught the Black Death though they were exposed.

Modern day researchers looked for men exposed to AIDS but who are apparently immune to it, and found that they also have the Delta 32 gene(s). A google search came up with several sites that perform this testing. I can't vouch for them; the testing seems to run about $200; I am in no way affiliated with these sites.

Again, I'm suggesting that a thread to discuss this be started; maybe Delta 32 will be debunked, and that's fine. I simply know that if I had a fear of contracting AIDS, I would feel more confident living a full life if this information is true and I discovered I had these genes.

R123 I had my genetic testing with 23andMe, and I have the Delta 32 gene (it takes some research to confirm, 23andMe just gives you the raw data).

This totally explains how I'm 47, was a slut in the 90s and foolishly engaged in lots unsafe sex, and am still negative. I know at least one guy I bottomed for was poz (not at the time, he told me afterward).

Wonder if there's anywhere I can volunteer for research?

R124. First, it's great that you got testing and have the gene!

If you're up for watching the YouTube episode, there *was* a mention of someone doing research in this area. I don't recall his name and have no idea if he's still researching in this area, but suspect research is going on and they'd be thrilled to find you.

I'll give the link, below. All the best to you.

R124, google led me to the link below. Again, I can't vouch for them but there are a lot of contacts linked at this site including one for Diseases/Research and Contact Us, so it looks like it could be promising.

I'm R123 and R125.

Okay, further google searches led me to a Datalounge thread called 'A Cure for AIDS,' linked below, wherein The Voice of the Night gives a nice description of how the gene CCR5 and its mutation, called Delta-32, works. It's at R2.

That thread is from 2011 and is about curing AIDS, so I would still encourage anyone interested in finding out if they have the Delta-32 gene to get tested.

Well, fuck me, there IS a Datalounge thread(s) about genetic testing for Delta-32 AIDS immunity. At least my heart was in the right place.

R124 it does seem like some folks just can't get it. In my small city, there is a trans who came out in the 70s and was getting fucked by just about everyone. She then became an escort and has done this for decades without getting poz. I was no saint either and i'm negative.

The day of my first clinical appointment in the new year, I called in and said, no need. I’m going off Truvada. Thanks for the ride. I am not going to let the promise of near immunity from HIV tempt me to use my body the way I once had. I need to remove that temptation from my life—my sex life, to be specific, but with lessons for all the ways I now intend to live. And so, I ended the temptation by going off the blue pill, and its exaggerated promises of immunity from harm.

R131 Just go suck some dick, whore.

This is why Danny Pintauro should have been aborted.

[quote] I had my genetic testing with 23andMe, and I have the Delta 32 gene

Does the gene protect from all forms of the HIV virus?

Considering Truvada is only effective in the 90-percentile range, I'm surprised there haven't been more documented cases of seroconversion on Truvada.

I can only think of the 3-4 publicized cases.

I think people are also having sex with men with undetectable viral loads, which is keeping the new positives on truvada down

If something seems too good to be true, it probably is.