Let's Gossip About It's a Wonderful Life

It's one of those few perfect movies.

I love the bank examiner.

I love Violet, that whore. She has to leave town because her reputation is so ruined in her home town.

I love the dance scene. It still makes me edgy.

And the old guy who tells George to kiss his gal, rather than talking her to death.

And I especially love all the historical references. I watched it with my nephew, and he missed much of it. "VJ Day", Mr. Gomer's son dying in WWI, bank runs, all of it is so cool. But my nephew doesn't know what these things are.

James Stewart looks really goofy with a big cigar in his mouth.

bump

[quote]I love Violet, that whore.

I had my turn as a whore a few years later.

What movie this was! It had so much packed into it. George Bailey had quite a life. I don't know if I would have called it "wonderful", but he sure went through and survived a hell of a lot.

A good family constitutes all you need. If no family, friends can cover for them, though they're more work.

I like how Mr. Potter chips into the war effort as did everyone else. He seemed to take some joy in sending men to war. It's a brilliant aside.

And yet It's a Wonderful Life was a box office flop when it was first released. Interesting trivia about the film at IMDB.

Mr Potter is not punished for taking the $8,000.

It's a wonderful life....for the last ten minutes. You want to be at the bar before then because the town is full of bums and losers who hero George has to give up his life for because they're so incompetent. Uncle Billy especially.

My father, who was a banker (but from humble origins), loved Mr. Potter--thought he was a great caricature of the miserly Dickensian greedy banker. Uncle Billy, on the other hand, he thought a dithering idiot.

Beaulah Bondi may have been queer, but I gather she was nice. I remember when I interviewed at Wayne State, one of the faculty members had an autographed picture of her on his office wall--he had done summer stock with her and had fond memories of her.

We moved to Sesame Street, and have been "roommates" ever since.

Was the child actress who played the retarded Zuzu actually retarded in real life?

what are you, R13? The Christmas Idiot?

As much as Jimmy Stewart is always "Jimmy Stewart", he's one hell of an actor. IAWL is a tour de force, and he does it so well. Somehow he manages to give an authentic, detailed performance. Every time I watch it I'm more and more impressed with his performance. I just recently saw it on the big screen for the first time and I was especially impressed with his scene with his father at the dinner table, just beautifully acted from both men. Similarly, he and Bondi have a wonderful scene outside his house after his brother has come home and announced his marriage. Again, neither scene is a barn burner, but just really lovely, delicately modulated work.

Potter never getting shit for stealing that 8K always bothered me.

I think Mr. Potter's punishment was that George got the money he needed and probably more besides and wouldn't be going to jail after all. No doubt that must have really burned Potter.

How old was Mr. Gower at the end of the film, 120? He looked 80 years old at the beginning of the movie, when George was a child.

I always thought Jimmy Stewart had BDF.

WHEEL ME UP BOY WHEEL ME UP

POTTERRR

I was savin' this money for divorce if I ever got a husband!

I love Beulah Bondi.

A truly great performance by James Stewart. I love that scene at the train station when his brother Harry comes home with his new bride. The disappointment on his face when he realizes yet again that he isn't free to go off to have a life of adventure, etc., but then turns it around as he tries to be act happy for Harry's sake. You just feel so bad for the guy. Gets me every time.

Hey, brainless!

I wish I had a million dollars! He-haw!

I love the "he-haw" meme. It's so true to life.

And a Happy New Year to you...in JAIL!

I have a few questions. Who is the angry man who murmurs, "Good night, Mrs. Bailey" after the wedding party, when she's standing on the sidewalk after having sent George to call on Mary Hatch?

Ma Bailey ran a boarding house and Peter Bailey was a banker. How were they so poor?

Was Violet going to NY for an abortion - is that why George gave her money?

[quote] Ma Bailey ran a boarding house and Peter Bailey was a banker. How were they so poor?

R27, in what reality?

In reality #1, I don't think Ma ran a boarding house. Peter ran a Building & Loan, not a bank. Sort of like a credit union. He had a huge house, raised 2 boys, and had a housekeeper & Cook, Anne. He wasn't doing badly, but he "wasn't a good businessman", as related by Mr. Potter.

Mr. Potter, aka Martin Shkreli, is a good businessman who knows he can raise his salary and people who have no other option will pay it. Peter Bailey would do so because it is abusive, regardless of whether or not he could get a away with it.

In the other reality, the one where George never existed, yes, Ma Bailey has a boarding house, since she had no income after Peter died and the Building & Loan closed.

Violet was a nice girl, R27! She needed the money for cab fare, you pig. How could you think such a thing about Violet?

Violet was "vivacious and high spirited. She's so attractive the men just naturally flock to her."

Jimmy Stewart was a right-wing reactionary whose father belonged to one of the PA chapters of the Ku Klux Klan. I'm surprised that he was friends with Henry Fonda. Fonda said that they agreed to disagree on personal politics, but pretty much agreed on everything else.

Jimmy S. Was born in 1908. There is nothing remarkable about his father being a member of the KKK at that time. All that probably meant was a club to play cards at.

Ma Bailey should've been played by Divine. (Well, I guess if there'd been a remake 30 years later.)

"Beaulah Bondi may have been queer, but I gather she was nice."

say what?

I read an article recently about Gloria Graham, who played Violet Bicks.

She was addicted to plastic surgery, convinced she was hideous, and always trying to achieve what she thought would be passable looks. She thought her nose disfigured and her face asymmetrical and a bunch of other weird things. She had so much work done, her face became truly hideous to look at, and she ruined her career.

Lionel Barrymore fell off a horse when a young man (I think in his early 30's---though i seem to recall others having said his hip injury occured after some prop fell on him much earlier than that....) and is thought to have fractured his pelvis. A few years later he developed osteoarthritis and became dependent on pain killers and crutches and eventually a wheel chair. There was also talk that his bone pain derive from a severe syphilis infection. Whatever ---- he was so good an actor, that directiors worked his handicap into the plotlines of the movie. Mr Potter in his wheelchair, Grandpa Sycamore with his crutches, etc. Much as I love Barrymore (and Stewart), he was a rabid Republican who actively campaigned against the income tax and the new deal.

I used to read those Hollywood Babylon books and those stories were amazing. Yesterday's awesome thread about Hollywood stars trading sex for discounted coke reminded me of those books: frankly, there is something about having achieved, against all odds, stardom ----- and knowing you are adulated and can command great wealth that makes people become total hedonists. They no longer feel restraints on bad behavior, and these people simply pursue the things that give them greatest pleasure, all sense of shame and humiliation from public exposure being long cast aside. In fact, jadedness gives them some sense of superiority I think, believing they know the truth of human behavior, while more conventional people suffer along without their enlightened perspective. James Franco for example. Being a coke addicted top, while working on his Harvard degrees and pursuing Indie scripts.

Frank Capra's autobiography is also pretty amazing. Talk about jaded. That guy was a misogyist and evil. Just the way he talked about his wife was appalling.

I think all of Hollywood of that era were James Francos.

Doesn't make it right, R32. And one of the requirements to join the club was to keep non-whites and non-Christians in "their place". So 1908 or 2008, same agenda same requirements for joining.

Stewart's performance, especially when he is in the pit of despair, is so real and raw. It's so real that it makes watching IAWL nearly impossible for me to watch.

mmmmm

Get me... I'm givin' out wings!

But WHY was the film a flop when it premiered? Can anyone explain that?

It would seem to me that the film would have been exactly what all those returning GIs and their girlfriends/wives were looking for in entertainment in post WWII America. Why would a film like this fail when The Best Years of Our Lives was so popular and Oscar-worthy?

I just realized, it's:

I wish I had a million dollars! Hotdog!

[quote] Jimmy Stewart was a right-wing reactionary whose father belonged to one of the PA chapters of the Ku Klux Klan. I'm surprised that he was friends with Henry Fonda. Fonda said that they agreed to disagree on personal politics, but pretty much agreed on everything else.

He was definitely right-wing. But let's not blame the son for the father's sins. Hardly think he was a reactionary. He supported Nixon not Wallace.

Uncle Billy was an insatiable bottom.

Ernie, the cab driver was another insatiable bottom.

[quote]Potter never getting shit for stealing that 8K always bothered me.

Maybe this'll help:

Love James Stewart. Definite BDF.

What I couldn't get over was how old some of the characters looked. George's father looked like he was 75 just before George was supposed to leave town but I think he was supposed to be just middled aged.

[quote]But WHY was the film a flop when it premiered? Can anyone explain that?

It would seem to me that the film would have been exactly what all those returning GIs and their girlfriends/wives were looking for in entertainment in post WWII America. Why would a film like this fail when The Best Years of Our Lives was so popular and Oscar-worthy?

Some critics think a post-WWII audience wanted more realistic films like The Best Years of Our Lives and the fantasy and sentimentality of It's a Wonderful Life were big turn-offs. Plus, nobody wanted to see the usually heroic Jimmy Stewart playing a savings & loan guy who gives up and tries to kill himself at Christmas. Debbie Downer. His character was also 4F (even for a noble reason) and didn't fight in the war.

Years later, when the film started showing regularly on TV, new audiences loved the small town Americana nostalgia even though their parents or grandparents had found it phony and cloying in the '40s.

"Out you two pixies go,through the door or out the window!" Nick the barman thought George and Clarence were a gay couple.

Clarence, where's Mary?

Oh you don't want to know, George. She's an old maid! And she works in a library!

Oh, the humanity! Rofl.

Bullshit. Mary would have hooked up with Sam Wainwright, married him, moved to Europe and been a rich bitch. That's what really would have happened.

She would have moved to Hawaii and worked as a "hostess" at the New Congress Club.

Fuck Stewart. Why don't they get June Allyson?

George and Mary had so much chemistry during the phone call scene.

I agree, R53. That scene was hot!

Donna Reed deserved a bigger film career. She was always typed as the sweet Girl Next Door but showed so much more range in this and From Here to Eternity.

"Well, you look about like the kind of an angel I'd get."

Mawkish, overly sentimental, ridiculous. It's like a mouth full of sugar-- so sweet you end up sick to your stomach.

Donna despite her beauty and talent was really unlucky at times.

Not only was she mistreated by Stewart but then there was that crappy Dallas debacle after which she became very sick and died.

[R57] Oh, why don't you stop annoying people

I love this film, which once helped me through a dark time.

I own a public domain VHS copy I bought years ago for $3...not bad for a Frank Capra classic. The story of how the film lapsed into non-copyright status and how it was recovered is pretty interesting.

"Hey Lothario, do you know there's a swimming pool user the dance floor?"

The film didn't flop as much as it basically broke even and failed to be the blockbuster or Oscar bait that Capra and Stewart had hoped. Stewart snubbed Reed for years afterward, blaming her forints relative failure. Never mind that it was picture to carry and Ree's performances the one fresh element I the first half (she's wasted in the second). The character players like Barrymore basically played their usual roles. Between this stale caring and direction, the public had moved on, as was demonstrated by the successor films like "The Best Years of Our Lives". Capra really never had another huge success was reduced to making industrial films formative the 50s.

Was Stewart difficult with Reed on the set? Please discuss. Or please guide me to r upthread. Thanks.

After Wonderful Life Stewart was scheduled to do another movie with Reed.

When the film was a big disappointment he dropped her like a brick and replaced her with June Allyson.

In terms of box office it was a smart move.

But it must have been crushing to Reed.

And who knows if the eventual incredible classic status of the film to her was revenge served cold or anything more than cold comfort.

Stewart didn't "drop" anybody. He and Donna Reed were under contract to MGM so they had ZERO say in who their co-stars were. The studio executives made those decisions. If anyone decided they would be pared again or not, it was not the stars, themselves, but the big brass in New York OR a director who wanted two stars for a picture. Someone with authority had to be PUSHING for a re-teaming. Actors were the lowest on the totem pole. Since IAWL was not a huge draw upon initial release, virtually no one was dying to put Reed and Stewart in another film together right away.

This is why so many stars went on suspension or sued to get out of their contracts. They had little to no control over their own films, their own careers and could not pick co-stars, directors or anything else. The studio TOLD them what films they would do. Oh, some got a place where they could call the shots, sure. Hepburn (around the time of Philadelphia Story) and Bette Davis (over at Warners) and Cary Grant. Barbara Stanwyck was a free agent. But not many could open a picture or have their names above the title to carry a picture.

He was. Cold to her after the film was released.

The movie's lack of major success destroyed Capra's effort to have an indie studio.

It's a Wonderful Life was made by Capra's independent Liberty Pictures. He would have done the casting. Reed was nearing the end of her MGM contract and needed another big part. The film where Reed was snubbed was the The STratton Story, which was quite successful. June Allyson, that bitch, got the role Reed wanted. Stewart as the principal star would have had some influence over casting. Stars didn't always win, but that could influence things. Bette Davis made sure that Miriam Hopkins, the upstaging cunt, never got hear one of her pictures.

Stewart was a huge powerful star by the time of this film and had enormous say. Fissures in the old studio system were already showing at this point.

We are not talking about the 30s or even early 40s.

Reed remained bitter towards him.

And It's a Wonderful Life was MGM? If so I am chastened.

Sorry you meant the new film with Allyson was MGM.

Allyson seems to have been quite the ambitious, conniving nympho.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Bette Davis and Miriam Hopkins appeared together in two movies, R67.

IAWL was RKO/Liberty Films (Capra's indie studio).

What was the deal with the animals randomly showing up at the bank? like the crow always tripped me out and the squirl was such a wtf monent. i loved it even though I never really got the symbolism.

Those were Uncle Billy's pets.

I loved Uncle Billy's pets. They were just one of those cute things a director throws in to give the characters some character.

Remember the Lost Ending of It's a Wonderful Life? SNL showed it years and years ago...

[quote]It's one of those few perfect movies.

Not really.

George Baily's sprint down the main drag "Merry Christmas Building and Loan" etc. is one of the corniest scenes in cinema history.

Even James Stewart admitted to being a bit embarrassed by the shameless corniness of it.

R77 = Potter

R62 couldn't you take a moment to proofread your post? Ugh...

And r57, the ending is sweet but well-earned. There's plenty of vinegar throughout the movie.

In 30 years, we went from ZuZu to Pazuzu.

R73, the crow was Frank Capra's. He also put him in You Can't Take It With You.

I watched Remember the Night earlier this week. Such a sad movie. Beulah Bondi was great in it.

If you want Beulah Bondi to break your heart, watch Make Way for Tomorrow. Talk about sad.

"It's a Wonderful Life" is the fruitcake of movies.

It's thrust upon us every year, and most of us would rather not but, hey, it's Christmas so what the hell. Afterall, it's another year before it comes around again and maybe we'll skip it for a year.

The fallen angel is an interesting archetype. This list of films on the theme includes IAWL (#22) and has my favorite Wim Wenders at the top...

You should be watching Bachelor Mother right now. I hope to hell the rest of the DL drunken old men are doing so. Damn, but Ginger Rogers is great in it.

Beulah Bondi's cruelest death came at the hand of a glowing Boris Karloff in The Invisible Ray.

"It's like a mouth full of sugar."

Not really. Many a critic has mentioned how "dark" IAWL is, despite its uplifting message that "no man is a failure who has friends." George Bailey's life is just one disappointment after another; the sudden death of his father, his taking over the Building and Loan (he never wanted to work there in the first place). In order to keep Potter from taking over, he continues to work there and gives his college money to his brother Harry. Harry is supposed to take over after graduating, but by that time he's married a high society bitch who wants him to work for her wealthy father; George, selfless as always, stays at the Building and Loan so Harry can work a cushy job. George can't serve in the Army due to deafness in one ear, which came about after he saved Harry from drowning after falling through the ice. Harry goes on to become a decorated, fawned over war hero. Potter offers George a high-paying job that would allow him to travel the world, but George turns it down, knowing he would be beholden to the evil Potter if he did. He creates "Bailey Park", a low income housing project. But he never makes much money and still lives in a drafty old house with his slew of kids and impossibly perfect wife. He never gets to "build airfields, skyscrapers a hundred stores high or bridges a mile long. He tells Mary "I'm shakin' the dust of this crummy little town off my feet and I'm gonna see the world!" But none of his dreams are realized. He's stuck in "a shabby little office" his whole life. That's the reality he has to face day to day. Nothing is "sweet" about a life like that.

Never mind -- R88 wrote everything I wanted to say. Also, the bit with Mr. Gower mixing up poison after his son dies in the flu pandemic is pretty strong stuff, along with the dystopian imaginary world of "Pottersville."

Yes, ironically the only thing sugary about IAWL is its title and that photo of George and family at Christmas that always seems to accompany the title whenever it is seen.

I remember reading years ago that Capra said he regretted making Mary an old maid librarian and should have done something else with her. Just what, he didn't say.

The obnoxious youth who pesters Mary at the school dance (and is one of two boys who opens the gym floor) was former child actor Carl Switzer. He played "Alfalfa" in the Our Gang films. Thirteen years later he was shot to death during an argument over a $50 debt and died at 31.

Was it custom then for wine and bread to be given to new homeowners like Mary does in the film?

r77 Which added special delight to one of the greatest portmanteau words ever-Capracorn.

If you ever feel you need to see a smutty Beulah Bondi movie I suggest A Summer Place.

Everyone is horny as hell except for Beulah of course.

She is queer but nice. Because lesbians are known for being not nice.

Robert Osborne was sitting next to Reed at the AFI institute salute to Capra and when both Capra and Stewart got up to speak they went on about how great she was in Wonderful life.

Osborne says that Reed at the table said 'Isn't this interesting at the time I was blamed for the failure of the film and now they're saying how wonderful I was in it.'

Clearly not a happy memory for her.

R88, r79 mentioned how much vinegar there is in the picture, thanks for giving specific examples.

Jimmy Stewart was a Ginormous Right Wing Douchebag! He wouldn't be too happy about all your Hard fought gains!!!

Your Wedding would have been his Funeral!!!

As a kid I loved seeing A Pocketful of Miracles on TV, the latter version with Glenn Ford, Peter Falk, Hope Lange and Bette Davis as Apple Annie. Was that Capra's last film?

I've never seen the earlier version which I think is called Lady for a Day. Neither ever seems to turn up on TV these days.

And did he direct A Hole in the Head? LOVED that one! Sinatra with Eddie Hodges is actually quite charming and Eleanor Parker is so warm and lovely, the very opposite of her persona in Sound of Music. But the film is stolen by the hilarious performances of Edward G. Robinson, Thelma Ritter and an unforgettable Carolyn Jones as a surfing beatnik.

Are there rights issues with his films? Why aren't they shown on TV more often?

[quote]You should be watching Bachelor Mother right now. I hope to hell the rest of the DL drunken old men are doing so. Damn, but Ginger Rogers is great in it.

TCM also shows the musical version of this movie, called "Bundle of Joy" (with Debbie Reynolds and her then-husband Eddie Fisher), quite often.

[quote]Was it custom then for wine and bread to be given to new homeowners like Mary does in the film?

The bread is so that you always have food and never go hungry. Not sure what the wine is for

As improbable as the story is Lady For a Day is one of Capra's great films and that is saying a lot.

As well May Robson gives one of the all time great performances in an American film. She deserved the Oscar.

Very moving.

And though the old lady Cinderella angle is false the agonizing desperation as well as the joy of the characters in the film are not.

"Bread, so that this house may never know hunger."

"Salt, so that life may always have flavor."

"And wine, so that joy and prosperity may reign forever."

It would have been better if Capra had given Mary another suitor besides George, maybe a persistent, overbearing man who had some kind of thriving business. If George had never existed, she may well have decided to marry him and later finds out that he's extremely possessive and abusive. It would have been interesting if George had seen not a plain, prim librarian, but a woman with a menacing looking man holding her by the arm and berating her. It would have been even more effective if Mary had been sporting a black eye. Making her an old maid just didn't make any sense; at the dance she's a vibrant, gorgeous young woman and you're supposed to believe than she never married because George Bailey didn't exist? Yes, it would have been much more plausible to make her an abused wife stuck in a loveless marriage.

Princess Grace called Jimmy Stewart overbearing and obnoxious.

R105, hee-haw

[quote]It would have been better if Capra had given Mary another suitor besides George, maybe a persistent, overbearing man who had some kind of thriving business.

How about a traveling huckster who sells boys' band equipment? He goes for that librarian type.

Jimmy Stewart was once filming on location in Spain. He and his wife went to check into his hotel and the hotel clerk apologized but stated firmly that he was not to rent to any "Hollywood types", because of prior bad experiences. Stewart then flashed his military ID and the clerk changed his tune. "Of course we have a room for "Brigadier General‎" Stewart of the United States Army Aircorp!"

I always thought it would've been better if they had shown Mary married to Sam Wainwright who would have then been cheating on her ass all the time, though I suppose with the way the film ends with him coming to the resuce, they can't make Sam that much of a dick.

Why doesn't Pocketful of Miracles get the respect it so richly deserves? It's a perfect, heartwarming holiday fable with a cast to die for. Bette Davis leavens the sweet proceedings with her glorious wit and vinegar and her butterfly reveal as a dowager to the strings of Tchaikovsky is simply sublime. Plus legendary Ann-Margret in her big screen debut!

Sam Wainwright wasn't a bad guy. He was kind of annoying but far from bad. There should have been another guy vying for Mary's affection, maybe a very good looking, successful guy whose superficial charm hides the true bastard that he is. There should have been a character like that in the film. It really was stupid to make Mary into an "old maid." But apparently back in those days to be a plain, unmarried female was considered a fate worse than death. Maybe Capra thought that was the worst thing that could happen to a woman, hence making Mary's fate without George as terrible as it could possibly be.

There was foreshadowing at some point, where Mary mentions becoming a old maid, IIRC.

Mary's fate was sealed. She loved George and no one else, ever. I think that makes her as pure as could possibly be. Keeping it simple.

When Mary smashes that record it's a great dramatic moment. In that one, spare, economical action with no dialogue we understand all we need to know about her and what George means to her.

A better, uncut version of the full scene...

Mary tells George if she hadn't married him, she wouldn't have married anybody. But that was when George EXISTED. What if he'd never existed? Why should she have never married? Is the movie saying that without George Bailey Mary would have turned out to be plain and shy and end up an old maid? It's actually pretty insulting to make Mary's attractiveness and happiness depend completely on the existence of George Baily.

R116, it was the 1940's. Women were supposed to have one job description: housewife.

[quote]Was Beulah Bondi odd?

Let me put it this way: she didn't smell like lavender blue dilly dilly.

Reed never felt accepted by the Dallas cast and crew. However they signed her up for another 2 years after which she went with her husband on a European trip during the hiatus.

It was there that her agent called her to tell her she had been dumped.

She had to take them to court for breach of contract and full payment.

She won but then died shortly thereafter at the age of 65.

Sad ending for a woman who was extremely well liked and loved and who fought against the Vietnam war when it was not popular to do so for someone of her age and wholesome American image.

Who else thought that the actor who played the young George Bailey should have had a more successful career?

Yeah, young Master Bailey was cute!

I read that Mr Gower really slapped him hard, and the blood was real. Maybe that's why he gave up film.

..."wait-a-minute, this really sucks!" - Young George B.

Mmmmmm...George Bailey as a young teen!!!

I watch only the first twenty minutes of this movie. After that I lose interest.

YES, R83, just discovered Make Way for Tomorrow recently. What a beautifully rendered film. Truly a tearjerker, with Beulah and Victor Moore aged at least 15-20 years but completely believable as oldsters (rather than middle-aged-sters) who have been displaced from their home by the Depression and have to move from child to child (including Thomas Mitchell!) inevitably causing problems. Leo McCarey does a wonderful job directing but it really feels like a Capra film, albeit without quite the same sentimentality. I didn't know Beulah was in A Summer Place! Or that she was queer.

Beulah Bondi was known as "Hollywood's Full-Service Gal." She would take all comers, male or female, and drive them to ecstasy with her exotic sexual techniques. She could handles cocks in all three holes at one time, with both hands finger banging ladies.

A true talent.

R124 you sick queen. ROFL.

R120, Agreed! Young Bailey was handsome. That scene in Gower's drugstore makes me wince and is heartbreaking to watch, especially with the boy crying in pain and fear. How awful for kids in those days to be batted around by adults in authority. The redemptive scene after that shows young adult Bailey picking up a personalized suitcase purchased for him by Gower.

I'm with R120 and R126. That scene is heartwrenching. And when he says "Please don't hurt my sore ear" as Mr. Gower continues to hit him. Then when Mr. Gower realizes what he did and goes to hug George, George backs up because he thinks Gower's coming back for more. Plus you have the added bonus of Mary hearing it and crying, too. So sad.

Wow! R121 was correct. Old Man Gower WAS slapping the kid around. Plus he was drinkin'.

A great movie -- gets better with each viewing.

Just think, if the movie didn't end with Sam coming to George's rescue (and how likely an outcome is that, really?), the whole thing would be about the folly of being totally selfless and living your life entirely for what you imagine to be the benefit of other people. Through the whole film, George Bailey assumes responsibility for others' lives and throughout the movie the outcome is just miserable for him...until the very, very end. It's this essential falseness at the film's core that I think most people instinctively respond to when they call the film overly sweet, etc. It's really not; it's actually well done, but the core premise of the film is, in my opinion, a false one. Which I guess is why, for all its charms, IAWL will never be a favorite Christmas movie of mine.

IAWL is one of those films that puts you through such misery it earns its happy ending.

Do you want it to end by nobody coming to Stewart's aid and then him shooting Reed then his children and then shooting himself in the mouth?

It might be a more realistic ending but it would also be anticlimactic.

You'd be what the fuck did I go through that for?

People go to movies for some sort of cathartic redemption.

It doesn't happen in life but people like to believe it does to this very day.

I don't know. Seeing Uncle Billy and Mr. Potter get shot might be cathartic for me!

Interesting observation, R130, but in reality innately compassionate people of conscience can't just decide to NOT help others. They wouldn't be able to sleep at night. So, if you understand human nature you know that's not necessarily a choice. George Bailey can only be George Bailey.

For those interested in reading the short story upon which the movie is based:

I have a problem with the ending. The "if you have friends, you are a worthwhile person" thing. I'd rather the ending somehow reference his family first, then his friends secondarily. They might have added God and Country, too, ahead of friends.

It's going to be on this coming week. I think Bravo is playing it.

My father met Jimmy Stewart in 1982. He worked part time for a security outfit, and they were responsible for Grace Kelly's safety when she came to Philadelphia for a celebration of her life(shortly before her death, as it turned out). He said Stewart was the most gracious person he ever met; he couldn't be more thankful for every little gesture. He said Ricardo Montalban and Stewart Granger were also wonderful(even though he said Granger kept saying to him "No one knows who the fuck I am!", and then laughing). He said Grace herself was properly regal, but also very nice. The nasty celebrity of the bunch was Bob Hope. My dad said he looked like a nasty penguin.

Great story, R137.

Thanks, R138. I'm trying to find footage on Youtube. I had the news story on VHS, but lost it a long time ago. My father was shown pretty prominently.

Clarence: Mulled wine, heavy on the cinnamon and light on the cloves.

Bartender: Hey, look, Mister, we serve hard drinks in here for men who want to get drunk fast. And we don't need any characters around to give the joint atmosphere. Is that clear? Or do I have to slip you my left for a convincer?

Clarence "...off with you me lad and be lively"

Nick: "That does it! Out you two pixies go, through the door or out the window!"

This thread is making me want to watch the movie again. I haven't seen it in many years and I'm sure it has a far more profound effect when one is older.

I just can't get past the image of Stewart and his bff Reagan dancing on all those gay peoples' graves. Lucky for me - the movie absolutely blows!

Peter Bailey: "No Gin tonight, Son"

Harry Baily: "Aww, Pop, just a little"

Peter Bailey: "No, Son, not one drop".

Harry Baily: "Awwwwww"

Annie: "Boys and girls and music, what do they need gin for?"

After George Bailey complements his father...

Annie: "I heard it, it's about time one of you lunkheads said it."

A pristine world without gays and minorities! How perfectly dreamy!

R146, They have pixies there to give the joint atmosphere. And a Black fattie on the piano.

I mean come on... what straight pixie is going to go into a rowdy, working-class bar and order mulled wine - heavy on the cinnamon - light on the cloves? It just doesn't happen.

Straight pixies would order it heavy on the cloves and NO cinnamon. And spike it with some vodka while you're at it.

But light on the cloves? Clarence is as gay as guardian angels can possibly get....

His underwear didn't help.

No, r13. Karoline Grimes (I think that's her name), who played ZuZu, also plays Debbie, the daughter of David Niven and Loretta Young's characters in A Bishop's WIfe. She is fine in it. Very cute actually.

That teacher's husband was an asshole. Don't go out drinkin'! Stay home and comfort your wife.

I believe it's The Bishop's Wife.

And I love that movie.

Another movie which should have won Gladys Cooper an Oscar for playing a snooty nasty old woman.

It's as if she went from 20 year old Edwardian beauty to crotchety 70 year old overnight.

You know there must have been gay bars and bath houses in Pottersville.

"A pristine world without gays and minorities!"

Oh, there must have been gays in Bedford Falls. They just weren't flaming. And there was obviously minorities; there was old Annie, and when all the people are coming in with donations for George there's a nicely dressed African American woman in the bunch.

I like the remark Uncle Billy made about searching for the lost $8000. He said "I even looked in rooms that have been locked since Nora died." It humanizes his character.

I also like the bank employee who wants George to ask his brother long-distance, what Mother was served for lunch at the White House.

And I also like Uncle Billy's pets.

Frank Capra is the closest thing America has had to Charles Dickens. And that's not necessarily high praise for Capra.

Plenty of glory holes in Pottersville, for sure, R153. But I doubt any actual gay bars or bathhouses.

Maybe a legit "turkish bath" if there were enough men to support it, and who knows what went on there, but otherwise I'm sure all gay activity was furtive and secretive. I think in the 1940s gay men fled to the big cities.

I think the comparison to Charles Dickens is very apt and high praise indeed!

The kid actor who plays young George Bailey is ALSO in "The Bishop's Wife". He's the captain of the army in the snow ball fight that Debbie wants to join in the park.

The scenes in this movie that absolutely wreck me every time are young George and drunken Mr. Gower, "Pop, you're a great guy", and George going off on Uncle Billy. H. B. Warner as Gower, Samuel S. Hinds as Pop and Thomas Mitchell as Uncle Billy are amazing in those scenes.

Also, Capra told a great story in his memoirs about Stewart and Barrymore. Having been through WWII, Stewart was expressing doubts about acting being a worthy profession considering the state of the world. According to Capra, Barrymore gave Stewart "a pitch on acting such as (he'd) never heard", saying that no other profession could reach and touch and influence so many people, especially film acting and especially in the film that they were making.

Capra made some pretty great films so I'm not sure why you wouldn't want to give him high praise.

Mr. Potter refers to the people financing houses through the Bailey Building & Loan as a "bunch of garlic eaters." Is that a derogatory term for Italians?

To R161 -

This is something I've wondered for years!!!

I think it is as he seems to make this comment shortly after the Martini home move.

Yes.

Garlic eaters = Italians

Hard to believe these days but back then garlic was not used much in cooking by non-Italians.

[quote]Was Beulah Bondi odd?

Did somebody bawl fo' Beulah?

Yes, "garlic eater" was a great slur.

I imagine Mr. Potter was of blue-blood stock.

I like the scene when Mr. Potter is told that "The Bailey Building and Loan" had created Bailey Park, near the old cemetery. Later, when George never existed, he winds up that that cemetery, and it's all creepy-looking, seeming at overflow capacity, with no "Bailey Park" or similar to be seen. Plus, it contains Harry Bailey's grave.

The actor who briefs Potter on Bailey Park is a familiar face. I think he must have been a character actor in a lot of movies.

That actor is Charles Lane. It always confused me when he says to Mr. Potter "This young man is going to ask George Bailey for a job!". It seems he's referring to himself but even then Lane looked old as dirt. Btw he was the last surviving adult cast member of IAWL.

Charles Lane famously denied a "drunken" Lucy Ricardo her passport.

"He's making violent love to me, Mother."

When George first visits Mary's house and she shouts that up to her nosy mother, what would that have meant in the era this film came out? It can't mean full-on rough, penetrative sex, which is what I think most people would take it to mean these days. No way she would say that to her mom, even jokingly.

Would making out have been considered "making love?"

And then would the kissing that happens once they drop the phone at the end of that scene be considered violent love making?

Making love to a girl, back then, was wooing her...

Woo! Woo!

Don't forget that scene was also supposed to take place some 20 years before the time it was released , I assume it meant 'making out', though.

The brother, especially in that uniform, was a hot looking fucker.

I demand all copies of this film be burned as the term "violent love making" is a indicative of rape culture and could be triggering.

But what is dancing but making love set to music playing....

Back in the day "making love" sure doesn't mean what it means today. Today it means sex. In earlier times, it simply meant that if a man was "making love" to a woman, he was whispering sweet nothings in her ear, professing declarations of love, attempting to steal a kiss. In the novel "Gone With The Wind" Scarlett thinks that Ashley loves her although she admits this to herself: "true, he never made love to her, nor did the clear gray eyes glow with that hot light Scarlett knew so well in other men." I hate using the words "making love" to describe sex. Sex more often than not has nothing to do with love.

That man is more familiar to me than most of my relatives and I never knew his name till now.

What man, R177?

My nephew asked me what a bank run is, and how they start. It's not easy to describe (while continuing to watch the movie). Didn't the Great Depression start with a failed bank in Austria?

George was 4-F in account of his hearing. He fought the battle of Bedford Falls..air raid warning, lights out!

Potter: 1-A, 1-A, 1-A...

How could anyone really follow the movie, without knowing the concept of a bank run; 1-A & 4-F; air raid warning; lights out - draw that blind buster, or turn that light out! All of this had to be explained to him.

Charles Lane was in several episodes of "I Love Lucy." His most memorable appearance was probably in "Lucy Goes To The Hospital." That's the one where she gives birth to Little Ricky. Lane plays a man waiting for his wife to give birth for the seventh time. He's the father of six girls. His wife gives birth not to a boy or a girl, but THREE girls. "Nine girls", he says in hopeless disgust. I loved Charles Lane! He was such a great character actor. He always looked old, but he wasn't that old in IAWL; he was 41. He lived to be 102. He was 90 when he gave his last performance. What a career!

Ellen Corby, who had a brief appearance in IAWL, was the same type as Lane. She always looked old.

I'll never forgive that CUNT, Mary!!!

She wished I would die of a stroke as she threw a rock at the old Granville house just so she could marry my son and live happily ever after!!

If it weren't for her, I might have lived to see...well, the end of the movie.

Fucking bitch.

R173 -

Finally!!! Someone said it.

Yes!!! Todd "Harry Bailey" Karns was hot!!!

Especially impressive R173 and R182, considering that his father was the not-hot Roscoe Karns.

Thank you r60. That was a really well-done explanation.

Yes R180, Charles Lane did make several appearances on I Love Lucy.....also The Lucy Show during its first season in 1962-63, where he played Mr. Barnsdahl, the banker in charge of Lucy's finances. He got the big bounce from the show, courtesy of Ms. Ball, who had little patience for his increasing inability to remember his lines. Enter Gale Gordon as Theodore J. Mooney, who was suddenly available after "Dennis the Menace" was cancelled at the end of the 1962 season.

Beulah Bondi looked old even in photos of when she was a young actress in the 20s.

When you even see her in the 59 A Summer Place you don't think wow she got old.

She looks just the same.

Harry Bailey's hotness has been mentioned in other threads about IAWL. He really got the looks in the family. George was a nice guy, but gawky and ordinary looking.

Yeah, but you just know George would've thrown a mean fuck!

George hate fucked Pottah.

That's "Mr. Potter", to you, R189!

I'm so drunk I could spit in your eye, R190.

I'm all right! I'm all right!

It's on Bravo right now! I'll watch some of it. I don't want to miss the ending. It makes me cry every time.

I love how upset Mary's mother is when she sees Mary and George kissing and realizes her hope of having a rich son-in-law are done.

Reed and Stewart really did have good chemistry. One of the reasons the closing scene works so well is because of how Mary is looking at him and you believe how glad he is to be back home with her.

Anyone who thinks this just sappy "teacher says every time a bell rings an angel gets his wings" blather just hasn't seen the movie. Those tears of joy at the end are hard-earned.

And with a little dash of sourness - the news that Sam Wainwright has authorized up to $25k results in a telling look between George and Mary...

Could someone please translate R195? Thanks!

Anyone who thinks this is just sappy blather just hasn't seen the movie...

Thank you, R197. There are two more sentences in R195, that I can't quite make out, though.

During the final scene, amid the tears of joy and gratitude, the name of George's old rival Sam Wainwright is mentioned as a potential savior. George almost winces at the thought.

Thanks, R199. And HeeHaw to you, in jail!

When George Bailey first meets Clarence, the angel tells him "I know everything about you, George." What I can't help but wondering is this: If he knew everything, then why didn't the angel tell George where the money was?

Good thought, R201!

But - it wasn't about the money. Remember when Joseph said George was discouraged? That was the problem, not the money.

I wish I had a million dollars!

No, r35, Gloria Graham (Violet) did not become disfigured. She had bad plastic surgery on her upper lip around the mid-1950s which left it immobile due to nerve damage. There are many pictures of her in later years looking beautiful and others where she looks like any other aging woman. Her cancer diagnosis and subsequent denial of it, along with her refusal to treat it medically didn't help. She really had a crazy life. Married to one man, he caught her having sex with his 13 year old son, whom she later married (and divorced). She had children with both of them. Can you imagine explaining that when these kids grew up????

I remember that as a small child watching it i thought he was like my father. The mean asshole side before he realises what he has. And i use to wish and wish my dad would wake up and love us.

i never understood why they trusted uncle billy with anything

Lionel Barrymore was so well respected and "fun to hang with?", that he and his very real wheelchair were written into numerous movies, including "Its a Wonderful Life".

R206, I like how the movie addresses character development. The entire "hehaw" business doesn't further the plot, but serves well in the story telling.

Likewise, I like how Uncle Billy looked for the lost cash in the rooms that had been "closed since Nora died". I also like how Uncle Billy falls down drunk but declares like a drunk that he's all right. I've read that the sound of garbage cans falling over when Billy fell was actually a mistake when something in the studio fell over. And then there is the wild life in the Building and Loan, there was a crow and I think a squirrel. The fact that nobody thinks the animals are unusual enough to comment on is great.

R293, heehaw!

My 20 year-old nephew didn't know what a bank run is, or what VJ day was. It's pretty central to the plot. I doubt he knows what "1A" or "4F" are, too. I imagine that kids today miss a lot of what's in the movie.

I like how Potter's contribution to the war effort consists on him gleefully sending young men to war. It's fitting.

Why don't you kiss her instead of talking her to death?

[quote]Mawkish, overly sentimental, ridiculous. It's like a mouth full of sugar-- so sweet you end up sick to your stomach.

Thank you. This is the most over-praised film of all time, from the mawkish screenplay with its stereotyped caricatures of real human beings to the outlandish, bug-eyed hamminess of Stewart's performance.

There are two great Christmas films from this period, the slightly silly but endearing Christmas in Connecticut with DL fav Barbara Stanwyck and the impeccably cast Sydney Greenstreet, S.Z. Sakall, Reginald Gardner and Dennis Morgan and the beguiling Miracle on 34th Street, one of the most perfect films from the golden age of Hollywood whose charms would take an entire thread to explain and appreciate.

Some things you might not know about the holiday film.