Batman Returns is the best Batman film ever made

Agree!

I love Tim Burton's dark but whimsical goth interpretation of the source material. I am not a fan of the mob crime syndicate feel of the Nolan reboot.

The Siouxsie and the Banshees music video for the movie's song Face to Face is pretty awesome.

Billy Dee Williams was supposed to return as Harvey Dent in Batman Returns. He was supposed to be Max Shreck. That would have worked perfectly.

Michelle Pieffer deserved at least an Oscar nomination...she was perfect.

Batman Returns has aged much better than it was initially received. At the time of release it was seen as "shocking" with how dark of a tone it struck for a comic book movie. This effectively ran Tim Burton out of the series. It's a shame - one wonders what a third Batman helmed by him and starring Keaton and Pfeiffer would have been like. We all know Michelle Pfeiffer was the best Catwoman. Me-ow!

Pfeiffer wasn't going to be in Batman Forever. Rene Russo was.

But that's only bc of how badly Returns was initially received and everyone jumping ship thereafter. Returns was a movie ahead of its time.

No, Pfeiffer was never going to be in Forever. If anything she was going to get her own spin-off film.

Russo was cast as Dr. Chase Meridian but dropped out when Keaton did and Schumacher went younger. Robin Williams was going to be the Riddler.

If you think Returns is dark then try and find the original script online. It makes what did make it to film a day at Romper Room. Catwoman ends the film as a paraplegic begging Batman to kill her.

R9, that's from the Batman Triumphant script?

Batman Triumphant was going to be the fifth film with Scarecrow and Harley Quinn.

I remember watching Batman Returns in the theater and people leaving because it was too dark for their children.

That music video R3 accentuates the type of vibe the film was going for it. It really was ahead of its time.

Loved Batman Returns. It's all about the villains. DeVito and Pfeiffer were perfect. At least Batman movies once had a sense of humor.

People fall over themselves with Heath Ledger as the Joker. I can't figure out why. He was beyond dull.

I think Batman Returns was one of the first movies that became a failure because it didn't deliver in the newly coveted merchandise market branding of blockbuster movies. But then critics whined about the movie being too dark, too (but praised Michelle Pfeiffer's performance).

I still remember rumors around that time of Howard Stern playing the Scarecrow. I think he even mentioned it on air.

[quote]We all know Michelle Pfeiffer was the best Catwoman. Me-ow!

Only because I wasn't offered the role!

[quote]We all know Michelle Pfeiffer was the best Catwoman. Me-ow!

No, just no..

Do people really think Anne was a better Catwoman than Michelle??

It is, and it's the polar opposite of Chris Nolan's sexless, humourless, Aspergic trilogy.

I concur with the OP.

[quote]Do people really think Anne was a better Catwoman than Michelle??

Yes, everyone does.

I did not like Heath Ledger in his role as "Joker."

Returns is good but relegates Batman and Bruce Wayne to mere co-stars. I think Burton was less interested in Batman in that he couldn't twist him enough to match Catwoman and The Penguin. If Keaton and Batman could have been integrated more it would've been a stronger film.

Honestly, the best Batman film is Batman: Mask of the Phantasm, based on the FOX series. Yeah, it's animated, sometimes clumsily, but it's more emotionally intense than any of that era's live-action counterparts. The producers on Mask were never afraid or embarrassed of being able to connect with the character.

Returns is an excellent film, and perfect for the holidays. All of the actors were on their A game here. I do like Nolan's films as well, and AnnE was good, but she was more of a Batgirl character than an authentic Catwoman. I do think I love Julie Newmar more than either Michelle or AnnE.

"newly coveted merchandise market"

14 years after Star Wars just doesn't seem like "newly coveted" at all.

I loved Batman Returns. It was dark but fun and Gotham City had it's own personality. Michelle Pfeiffer was the perfect Catwoman and played demented and sexy very well.

I loved Burton's Batman because I loved seeing how villians became villians.

[quote] I still remember rumors around that time of Howard Stern playing the Scarecrow. I think he even mentioned it on air.

Holy shit, I wish that had come to pass. I'm marking out just thinking about it.

Have to admit I find Nolan's films to be cold and alienating, and hard to watch on account of the upsetting rhetoric they batter the audience with. Interesting that Nolan suggests Bruce philanthropy and socialite-persona is all total façade, rather than another part of his character. I like Bruce to have a warm, passionate, humanitarian streak, like Keaton and especially Kilmer.

I think they should have given one film to Jim Steinman to score, or let him do his Batman musical. That would've been fucking EPIC.

I was not into any of the Nolan films. I wonder why their so popular. They're not that good. Dark Knight was boring and Rises was okay. But, I've seen them once and that was it. When BR is on, I watch it evrytime it's on. I agree with all of the sentiments shared about the Nolan films.

R7, and thank God Russo wasn't. She's the Jason Voorhees of actresses of a certain age. Just when we think she's gone, she pops right back up again (see: Nightcrawler). I guess connections and sucking the right dicks is the key to immortality in Hollywood.

I like the Nolan films (with the exception of the boring Batman Begins) as action films rather than superhero films. They're so serious about the topics of vigilantism and corruption, but turn almost campy when Batman shows up in his costume. If they were straight thrillers, they would work so much more because the superhero aspect makes them disjointed.

But Batman Returns is the best one, hands down. It's exactly what you'd want out of a Tim Burton superhero film, and Michelle Pfeiffer was unbelievable as Catwoman. If half as much creativity that went into this film went into the comic book movies of today, I would hate them that much less.

We beg to differ...

R9, I read that same script. The finished movie was quite the improvement. I'm happy how they changed Catwoman from a jewel thief who liked to slice people open to an actual character with a story.

R32. My thoughts exactly! Dark knight is so entertaining because its such a great premise and ledger is superb in the role. But as a whole the trilogy doesn't work and I always thought they were overrated. The realism is painted too authenric for one to honestly accept a "superhero" crime stopper and also that no one has figured out Bruce Wayne is batman.

[quote] People fall over themselves with Heath Ledger as the Joker. I can't figure out why. He was beyond dull.

I did not like Heath Ledger in his role as "Joker".

[quote] ledger is superb in the role

I did not like Heath Ledger in his role as "Joker".

[quote]But that's only bc of how badly Returns was initially received and everyone jumping ship thereafter. Returns was a movie ahead of its time.

I've said it before and will say it again: "Batman Returns" is hands-down the absolute best of all the "Batman" films and that includes all of Christopher Nolan's overhyped, overpraised borefests. And I found it so interesting how the very critics who trashed "Returns" as being too dark and too gloomy are the very same critics who threw roses at Nolan's crap movies citing those EXACT same reasons, attempting to cover their hypocrisy in the notion that Nolan, unlike Burton, had taken the subject matter seriously and that's what made them so (allegedly) great. It was such bullshit and still pisses me off to this day.

And I agree that Michelle Pfeiffer was robbed of an Oscar nomination. It would have been totally deserved in my opinion and I wouldn't have even minded seeing her win. It was that great of a performance.

And Michelle would have started or ended her Oscar acceptance speech with "Meow."

Yes, "Batman Returns" is the best Batman movie by far, but I still enjoy the campy mess that is "Batman Forever".

What can I say. One film has a comic-book villainess give an Oscar-level performance, the other has Tommy Lee Jones desperately trying to out-ham Jim Carrey and failing miserable. Aaaand "BF" is a totally straight film, and "BF" is gayer than "Brokeback Mountain".

[quote]And Michelle would have started or ended her Oscar acceptance speech with "Meow."

Meh, the real kicker would have been if she had cartwheeled or back flipped off the stage proving she did all of her own stunts (throwing some future shade at Natalie Portman and her real dancing claim for Black Swan). Not that "doing your own stunt" was an actual media issue.

She could have cartwheeled over to the podium and then said "Meow"!

[quote]And I agree that Michelle Pfeiffer was robbed of an Oscar nomination. It would have been totally deserved in my opinion and I wouldn't have even minded seeing her win. It was that great of a performance.

She got an Oscar nod that year for LOVE FIELD, which got bad reviews and flopped and hardly anyone ever saw. But it's my suspicion that the nomination was really for BATMAN RETURNS, because she was praised highly by the critics, but in those days they wouldn't dare give an acting nod to a superhero film, especially a controversial one. (We all know how the Academy eschews controversy.) Granted, two years earlier, they gave a supporting nod to Pacino in a comic book movie (DICK TRACY), but he was a living legend by that point and a 5-time nominee (or loser). Kind of like how Streep got her nod for INTO THE WOODS a few years back. It's unlikely that anyone else would've been nominated for such films..

And you know that Ledger's untimely death a few months before the movie opened was a big factor in the film's massive gross (see Paul Walker's final FAST/FURIOUS movie) and his nomination/win. Had he not died, it's unlikely he would've won or even been nominated. His age would've also hindered him, if he were alive. To date, only 4 twentysomethings have won Supporting Actor Oscars -- George Chakiris (WEST SIDE STORY), Timothy Hutton (ORDINARY PEOPLE), Cuba Gooding, Jr, (JERRY MAGUIRE), and Ledger.

[quote]I remember watching Batman Returns in the theater and people leaving because it was too dark for their children.

I also remembering McDonald's discontinuing their BR Happy Meal toys, because parents complained about the movie being unsuitable for kids. Well, it WAS rated PG-13. I don't know why people were bringing small children to it, in the first place. For what it's worth, my brother was 8 when we went to see it (I was 12), and he didn't seem bothered by it. We didn't even notice the sexual innuendos until years later. Adults don't realize (or fail to remember) that a lot of things go over young kids' heads. For us it was all about the action, and for me, Catwoman. :-P

[quote]And I found it so interesting how the very critics who trashed "Returns" as being too dark and too gloomy are the very same critics who threw roses at Nolan's crap movies citing those EXACT same reasons

Nearly two decades elapsed between the release of those movies. Critics of all stripes do change with the times.

Pfeiffer really was extraordinary in the film. To this date it's my favorite super hero performance and I agree with those who say she should have been nominated.

I hadn't heard the idea that her Love Field nom was secretly for Batman Returns. I love the theory.

Also I kind of get why the film put people off because its macabre as fuck, but I remember the 89 Batman being more grim. I think of Batman Returns as dark, but ultimately zany fun. It's so out there.

Also Danny Elfman's score is perfect.

I love the character of Batman and I love both the Adam West series and the Nolan films. But I've never really understood why so many people went gaga for the Burton films. They were just ok to me.

Michelle Pfieffer should have been nominated for Best Supporting Actress.

Burton's Batman movies are a goth's wet dream. They are dark and grim fairytales with a bit of humor on the side.

While I love Batman Returns my most favorite Tim Burton movie is Sleepy Hollow. And it doesn't take itself so seriously. One of the DVD extras is a quiz about all the incorrect things from the movie (blood squirting from a long dead corpse, for example).

Sleepy Hollow!

I'm just gonna make this about Danny Elfman. One of my favorite tracks he's ever composed. The string work is great!

[quote]I love Tim Burton's dark but whimsical goth interpretation of the source material. I am not a fan of the mob crime syndicate feel of the Nolan reboot.

I like both.

Yep. And I slept theough the Nolan Batmovies. Boooring.

Still my favourite Bat movie (and version of Catwoman).

My fav is still the campy one with the batnips and Chris O’Donnell as Robin.