If Kate Jackson had been allowed to take Kramer vs. Kramer

We'll never know will we? Maybe Meryl would have starred in that pre ass cancer movie Making Love

Or Meryl would have been billed on the Charlie's Angels season 4 opening episode Love Boat Angels "and Introducing Meryl Streep as Tiffany Welles"

Uh, no ........

I do sometimes wonder if Meryl's career derailed Kate's career because KATE thinks that she would've had Meryl's career if she'd gotten 'Kramer vs. Kramer' though .......... delusional and devastated ??

Kate has specifically commented that she knows she would not have had Meryl's career, but she does believe if she'd gotten the part in K v K that she'd have had more film opportunities.

I'd be more interested in seeing Kate play Margaret Thatcher. That would have been worth sitting through Kramer Vs. Kramer with that Danko bitch.

Kate could have easily knocked it out of the park and gotten herself an Oscar nomination for the role. She was a very strong actress at the time.

Meryl got Sophie's Choice and French Lieutenants on the back of Kramer (and it was quite a battle for her to even get Sophie) Had she not had that Oscar at the time, I wonder if she even would have been considered for Sophie. But Meryl would have gotten her big break at some point.

I think Kate could have done a great job in The Devil Wears Prada. And I saw her do Doubt on stage so I know she would have been less laughable than Meryl in the movie.

What if Meryl was Ripley? She was the orginal choice.

Kate's "Kramer vs. Kramer" was called "Making Love."

Oh Give us a break, Datalounge! That hatchet faced Kate couldn't pull off a tampon commercial.

Kate can spin mediocre scripts into gold -- she earned two Lead Actress Emmy nominations -- for [italic] Charlie's Angels [/italic].

TV hands out Emmy nominations the way banks hand out calendars.

I think Kate would be difficult to work with.

Well, R14, Kate Jackson thinks you'd be no picnic to work with, either. She says you seem judgmental.

Dear God, someone cast Kate in the next tour of MAMMA MIA! She couldn't be any more ridiculous than Streep was.

I guess I never understood why Kate was so favored at the time.

Kate never made me a Grandma.

Kate would've easily won an Oscar if she got to do Kramer vs Kramer, but she wouldn't have had Meryl's career. And Meryl wouldn't have had her career either (she'd probably be on the same trajectory as Sigourney Weaver). Funny how these things work out.

At the height of the Charlie's Angels mania, Burt Reynolds referred to Kate Jackson as a great actress.

Talk about faint praise . . .

[quote]Would we be talking about Meryl Streep today?

The better question would be "Would we be talking about Kramer vs. Kramer?"

Meryl would still be a world-class actress, and Kate Jackson would still be a TV actress who peaked circa 1983; Kramer vs. Kramer would have been a forgotten blip only remembered as that time when Dustin Hoffman slummed it with a TV actress.

La Streep in Charlie's Angels? Que bruta!

Kate would ever have been taken seriously in Kramer v Krame no matter how well she acted it. She was cursed as having been in Charlie's Angels

Sigourney Weaver's career is more interesting than M's. Meryl Streep has the career of an affluent WASP who will never be challenged - all she likes to do is to show off. Sigourney Weaver is way, way cooler and has done cooler, edgier stuff. And she was in Working Girl.

Agreed that Sigourney doesn't get the attention she deserves.

Streep ins't a WASP. And Kate "the smart one" Jackson couldn't have pulled off Streep's accents, let alone her other technical skill. Weaver is very good but when she was at Lincoln Center a couple years ago, she was a bit too much the scenery chewer.

The dingo took my baby!

Fine, she's not WASP. She's bourgeois all right, and it reflects on her film choices for the past 20 years. There's nothing interesting there. It's all overindulgence.

Weaver comes from a privileged family too, but she's far, far more interesting.

Kate Jackson couldn't even pick out a husband, how do you think she'd be able to pick out a good movie role.

IIRC Dirk Benedict wanted to marry her.

He also wanted to marry Marie Osmond ...

Streep already had an Oscar nomination for Deer Hunter. Missing out on Kramer would have hurt her career in the short term but not significantly.

Kate's career would have been helped substantially if she's gotten the movie. She really lost out.

Kate can't even get a good TV role these days.

I could have sworn Kate was up for the Jane Alexander role seems like history was rewritten.

No matter if Jackson was cast in the role it would have became a different lesser film. Kate had a chance in the dreadful Making Love and didn't rise above like good actors do. I don't even think Kate has a special TV movie that she gave a good performance...

Isn't Kate mentally incapacitated now, living in a trailer and she's become a hoarder? That's what I read.

R33 mentions Jane Alexander. Do any of our elders recall when Jane Alexander was the new Meryl Streep back in the 70s? It seemed every other year she was nominated for an Academy Award (think of The Great White Hope era).

Jane Alexander

Testament

Franklin and Eleanor

Then not much, too bad.

There were more, R35

It's unknown whether Kramer would have worked with Kate Jackson. Like Making Love, audiences may have rejected it because Kate would have made it seem like TV movie of the week garbage (or Dustin Hoffman would have asked that she be fired). Being popular on TV has nothing to do with success on the big screen. Miss Streep is talented and a class act.

Oh, I know r36 -- but that is from where I knew her and wanted to see more, but not much followed.

But the real question is, would Dustin have slapped Kate? If so, would she have slapped him back?

I think Meryl won the Oscar for the courtroom scene which from what I understand she rewrote. Kate might've gotten an Oscar nom for it but there is no way she would've come close to Meryl's career and would've been doing Scarecrow and Mrs King a few years later anyway. I've never heard Alexander referred to as the new Streep in the 70s but she was quite acclaimed with a Tony win plus three Oscar and Emmy noms.

Would Kate have taken off her turtleneck sweater for a Silkwood shower?

Plain Jane publically resented Meryl's success. In show business, there is no golden fairy to help complainers. You either have the goods to be a star or you don't.

Jane Alexander was established by the time Meryl showed up in the late 70's. Great White Hope gave her a nomination early in her career. Franklin and Eleanor was a major deal at the time so that helped establish her as well. But good roles for actresses have always been harder to come by. (Best Actress nominations are often feast or famine situations with some years like 1975 really bad.)

Hate Jackson, her nickname on the Charlie's Angels set was dating Dustin Hoffman at the time, and naturally, he wanted her to play his wife in KvK. Aaron Spelling did not want to lose another original angel so he refused to release her. Kate retaliated by making life hell for everyone in production, so Spelling fired her. Kate could have transitioned to films like so many others had done, but I doubt she'd be successful. Look what happened to Farrah, Cheryl, and Tanya. They all flopped on the big screen.

Is that why Dustin slapped Meryl? He hated the bitch for stealing his girlfriend's part?

Dustin slapped Meryl because he could get away with it at the time, and he was on a little white powder the kids like to call blow.

[quote]Being popular on TV has nothing to do with success on the big screen.

That is so true, she is such a TV type actress

Dustin now likes to take credit for casting Meryl, saying that after Kate dropped out due to CA contractual obligations, he suggested Meryl, whom the producers had never heard of. But Streep had already been cast in the thankless JoBeth Williams role. It was Sherry Lansing who first championed Streep over Jackson, and now with Jackson out, she suggested they bump Meryl to lead.

If she could have been, she would have been, and that's showbiz baby.

She was Daphne, the silent ghost, in Dark Shadows

She could have played Dorothy Hamill in a bio-pic.

Kate and Dustin

R21 raises the most interesting point on the thread.

Love or hate Meryl, without her, we would not even remember KRAMER VS KRAMER. Pauline Kael was one of the few critics at the time who (justifiably) said it was overhyped and trendy and didn't amount to much. There's some lovely work in it from all the leads but face it, it's not a great or important movie: it's a trendy movie about changing gender roles and parenting that hit at the right time. Meryl's performance helps take it somewhere else.

Kate Jackson's not a terrible actress, but K vs K would have been another TV movie of the week with her as the star. Robert Benton really became a bit of a hack.

But... we like Movies of the Week on DL...

I actually think higher of Kramer than merely "trendy." It's well made and was the last time (?) an adult drama was the #1 movie of the year. It's too bad Pauline croaked before Meryl's resurgence with films like Prada. She would have championed her.

What if Shelley Hack had been cast in Kramer vs. Kramer?

A scene they cut from the original Kate script:

Billy: Why is mommy so butch?

Ted: What do you mean by butch Billy?

Billy: A kid at school said mommy is butch like a female Tennis player or an East German swimmer in the Olympics.

Ted: Billy, when you go downstairs to that ugly woman in the sweatshirts apartment do you ever see mommy and her kissing?

The whole film would have been more like the book had Meryl not been in it. In the book she is not really troubled but more self-involved and irresponsible. She wants to go off and have fun and is just kind of bored by the kid. Meryl was allowed to change the character into a more sympathetic unhappy woman.

In the end of the book she doesn't let the kid stay because she decides it is bad to uproot him again like she does in the movie. In the book she just decides she can't handle him and basically deserts him again.

Meryl's casting changed the whole script.

R58 gets me. Thank you r58.

If you want you can come to Connecticut and hold one of the Oscars for a few minutes.

One of the things, looking back on it now, that is funny is when Meryl is on the stand and being questioned by a lawyer about why she should have posession of the child to raise and asks her what her income is. Meryl says, $30,000/ year, and Dustin eyes open real wide! $30,000 was considered a TON OF MONEY back then!!

This is like the Adele can't sing thread.

I think Adele can sing and I think Kate is a great actress.

[quote] I think Kate is a great actress.

name one good performance.

Kate Jackson never gave a great performance. I always thought she gave very competent performances and that she would likely be capable of being quite good if she had some stellar material. Her best material was probably Scarecrow and Mrs. King (not saying much, I know) -- she was quite good, there. Her best shot was Making Love, and she was decent, but the material was just so-so. And Michael Ontkean is no Olivier, so it's not like she had anyone around her who was going to up her game.

Eventually, either poor mental health or substance abuse -- likely both -- prevented her from giving any performance that you could even call mediocre. Since the mid-90s, she's seemed to not be able to concentrate anymore; and her few performances in those 20 years are actively embarrassing.

Sigourney Weaver just played an American tourist in one episode of the British tv series Doc Martin. Kate Jackson would be slumming like Sigourney is doing.

Kate has had many health problems

On August 3, 2010, it was announced that Jackson would be writing a memoir, to be published by Gallery Books, an imprint of Simon and Schuster.[17] Titled The Smart One, the book was originally scheduled to be released on October 11, 2011, was delayed to February 1, 2015,[18] and delayed yet again to December 30, 2020.[19]

[quote]Her best shot was Making Love, and she was decent, but the material was just so-so. And Michael Ontkean is no Olivier, so it's not like she had anyone around her who was going to up her game.

The weird think about that movie is Kate seems so butch. Was she cast so it would be a lavender marriage? Was her character going to come out too?

R66, I'm not surprised. Kate is a notorious flake. The publishers were fools to think they can get anything from her. They probably gave her an advance that will never see a return.

My mom was a waitress near the studios. She waited tables for many celebrities. My mom was very pretty. Adam West (Batman) made a pass at her. Anyway, she waited on Kate one afternoon and said she was a real sweetheart.

R69, Your mom got her on a good day. She's very up and down that one.

Crazy bitch.

I loved Scarecrow and Mrs King. Must check iTunes.

While "The Irony Lady" - an engaging account of Margaret Thatcher's rise to power, her challenges whilst in power and her long, sad personal decline - was largely panned by mainstream media, it is my all-time Meryl Streep film.

Meryl Streep has this extraordinary ability (or talent) to truly inhabit a role. But a lot of actors and actresses are 'talented' and can deliver good to magnificent performances. What sets Streep apart in the industry is the level of intellectual insight she intuitively brings to the complex psychological tapestry of a character's motivations and external actions enabling her to breathe transformative life into her roles.

No other actors - the exceptions being Daniel Day-Lewis and Benedict Cumberbatch - can rival Meryl Streep - in my humble estimation.

This thread only has room for Streep commentary is it relates to Kate Jackson, R73, so back off, turkey!

I barely had a film career...surely the idea that Kate would have had one is, you know, funny

I am frankly honored you all even know my name. I would like to ask you to please mail checks to my last known address. Agree on watching Meryl. Fantastic actress and my Joanna will never be known. Perhaps for the best. i'm the Mona Lisa of talkies.

Darlings, we all know that TV actresses can't make it in films. Just ask poor, sad Glenn.

Slightly related but I had no idea Jessica Lange went so hardcore on AHS. She really embraced being on television and cranked out 52 episodes? Wow. It is good work and bookends her career nicely. I would love to see her work with Streep - I think they would surprise people even more with their combined greatness.

Does anybody recall that Kramer vs Kramer was adapted from a popular book at the time? I bring this up because having seen the movie when it came out, it made me read the book. You know how when you read a book AFTER seeing the movie you can't help but see the actors in your mind who were cast in the parts? "Joanna" was nothing like how Meryl played her. She was Kate Jackson to a tee. Kate would have been perfect.

R62, the episode in which Jill Danko, pregnant, was shot on her wedding anniversary to Mike and she lost the baby.

[quote] Darlings, we all know that TV actresses can't make it in films. Just ask poor, sad Glenn.

Oh really now, bitch??

Jane Alexander was great, for lack of a more distinctive word (not my first language). If you're looking for more roles where she left a significant mark, there's the accountant in All the President's Men.

Now you make me want to read the book, R79. Except the movie never made such a strong impression... I hardly remember it. I remember it was "famous", but when I saw it in the mid-90s I really wondered why...

Jackson and Dustin? Now there's a strange couple. Let me guess: she was more famous than him at the time.

Right R84, because you believe every Hollywood actor is gay.

I have a question about Kate's hairdo in Making Love, which seemed to be longer and lighter in color than her do in Charlie's Angels. Was this to make her look more feminine?

Who?

I thought Kate signed for a 4 year contract so how did get out of the show after 3 seasons? I'm not aware that she returned for guest appearances the way Farrah did as an alternative arrangement.

R44 says Kate was fired from the show, so then she was presumably not wanted back for guest shots the way Farrah was.

Kate was the glue that held Charlie's Angels together. The show really faltered without her. Spelling should've let her take a break to do the movie. She probably would've been gone 2 or 3 months tops. Farrah had to return for the guest shots due to the lawsuit outcome (3 episodes in each in seasons 3 & 4) and it would softened Kate's temp absence some. Kelly, Kris could've handled the cases in the other episodes without Kate or Farrah. It would've been for the betterment of the show overall and we wouldn't have to suffered through the badly cast Shelley Hack. Who played a large part in the show's demise.

What was the problem between Kate and Cheryl Ladd, and would Kate not have liked anybody who replaced Farrah?

Kate was the established actress among the three originals, having become popular with television audiences with "The Rookies." She was the first one hired on CA, then called "Alley Cats," and was given an uncredited semi-producer role in its development . She was the one who came up with the idea of calling the female detectives "Angels."

After the show premiered, Farrah became the breakway star, which somewhat irked Kate, but because they had become friends, she got over it. However, Kate grew increasingly and vocally critical of the quality of the show, which she dismissed as "fluff."

Exit Farrah, enter Cheryl, who became not only popular with audiences but with the producers and crew as well. Producers capitalized on Miss Ladd's curve appeal by having her running around in bikinis and bathing suits on several episodes. Understandably, Kate was upset at the continued degradation of HER show. But as Cheryl's status on the show ascended, Kate's status started to wane. The Kramer vs Kramer debacle only intensified Kate's resentment and she acted out by being impossible to deal with, resulting in her termination.

I never understand why tv producers won't let an actor out temporarily to do a major movie. If the movie is a critical and/or box office success, won't that increase the ratings potential and longevity of the series? What if Kate had done Kramer and won the Oscar instead of Meryl? Couldn't that have brought more viewers to Charlie's Angels and make it look less "fluffy"?

I suppose Spelling had no idea that Kate would become so difficult after not letting her do KvK but it would've probably appeased Kate and would've had her behave and stick around for the remainder of her contract. That would've gave them more time to find someone better than Hack as a replacement and the show could've maybe lasted a few more seasons. And yes if Kate was a success in KvK, it could've given the show more attention and ratings.

[quote]I thought Kate signed for a 4 year contract so how did get out of the show after 3 seasons?

All three originals signed 5-year contracts. Farrah breached after one season and was forced to shoot several episodes over several seasons as part of the negotiated settlement. Kate deliberately held up production with her demands for script changes, refusing to do scenes, calling in sick, etc. Producers had had enough and said, "You know, Kate, maybe we should part ways." Behind the scenes, Kate had switched agencies, and her new agents didn't want her continuing on the show because her old agency, William Morris, was still collecting 10% of her Charlie's Angels income.

[quote ]I never understand why tv producers won't let an actor out temporarily to do a major movie.

Tom Selleck was cast as Indiana Jones in "Raiders of the Lost Ark," but the shoot schedule coincided with the start of production on the 2nd season of "Magnum PI," so Magnum producers refused his request to accommodate his schedule. He was the series lead so they couldn't exactly shoot around him.

Unfortunately for Tom, the writers strike delayed production for months, so he could've filmed Raiders and returned in time to shoot Magnum.

[quote]Farrah breached after one season and was forced to shoot several episodes over several seasons as part of the negotiated settlement.

Lucky her. I had to phone in my performance.

I think Spelling knew that if Kate had been allowed to do Kramer she was never going to come back to Charlie. Plus he had been stung by the Farrah experience.

It's like what Bette Davis said about Warner Bros. They give you an opportunity and then the actor wants more and to try something different and then they are perceived as the ungrateful child. That mix of money and ego is dangerous.

Kate may have had a hand in developing Charlie's Angels but it really was crap from the beginning. Let's face it. 3 pretty girls as policewomen - please. But was The Rookies any better? I have never seen it.

When they told asked me if I would go blonde for the role, I reached for my contract.

R100, The Rookies, as I remember, was a good show. It was a crime-drama series with continuing story arcs that followed the lives of rookie cops, at work and at home. Sort of like an early HIll Street Blues. Charlie's Angels, as Kate had been led to believe, was supposed to be in a similar vein. What it turned out to be was what Kate dismissed as a "cop of the week" show--no story arc, just solve a crime by episode's end, done, next!

Interestingly, when the show pilot was still in development, ABC was concerned that nobody would believe that three pretty female detectives could fight crime on their own, so a male character was written in, played by David Ogden Stiers, too plan out and organized the missions. After the pilot premiered, ABC ordered the character excised.

/to plan out...

Yes but was Streep offered Making Love? Ww know Kate wasn't the first choice, as Goldie Hawn apparently turned it down. And there was a long list of men who turned down both male parts as they didn't want to play gay. This was before the time when doing so could get you an Oscar.

Wasn't Kate Jackson just a stoic, pretty face? I don't ever remember there being an emotional element to her work. Farrah Fawcett in The Burning Bed and Extemeties was 10x the actress Kate Jackson ever was. Of course I only remember her on The Rookies and Charlie's Angels.

But she never could've played Joanna Kramer as the muddled, if sympathetic, neurotic Streep delivered. Kate's "strength" could also be called invulnerability which wouldn't have served Kramer as it was a barely controlled weep fest.

She is a shell of herself now. #drugs #hoarder

M would have ended up starring with Bruce Boxleitner in [italic]Scarecrow and Mrs. King[/italic].

This! R5