Advocate: The Rise of the Gay Bigot

I don't agree with the article's writer about the "gay community" embracign diersity.

For decades there has only been one single way of depicting and promoting the image of homosexual men from the "gay community" itself and that is that he has to always be affeminate, diva pop lover and obsessed with fashion. Even though people have the right to fit in the stereotype it is never a good thing to depict an entire group of people under one category.

The concept of diversity in the "gay community" seems to be misunderstood when gay men cannot be masculine, like cars and have no interest in fashion.

Why is the Advocate suddenly anti gay male?

OP - I think it is time to drop the Advocate.

Haven't read it in years because it hasn't published anything worth reading in years.

[quote]Why is the Advocate suddenly anti gay male?

Why do you equate being against bigotry with being against gay men?

A lot of white "professionally gay" men are very self-absorbed and have no tolerance for anything outside their very narrow gay bubble ghetto. They have no tolerance for same-sex oriented people whose values, lifestyle, beliefs, identity, priorities, and goals are different than theirs. They are very uncomfortable with bisexual/gay/fluid people who live outside the stereotypes.

Because, r4, there's a difference between bigotry and raising genuine concerns about how women, gay men and non gender-conforming children are treated.

This thread will end in tears.

The Rise of the Gay Igot.

Yes. That sounds much better.

Bigotry against our oppressors is never wrong. Never. Under any circumstances.

[quote]Because, [R4], there's a difference between bigotry and raising genuine concerns about how women, gay men and non gender-conforming children are treated.

I disagree with your characterization of it, but even so, it still doesn't make sense why you would make the histrionic leap to accusing the article of being against gay men, as if all of them share the viewpoint being described.

As far as I'm concerned, homosexuality is the only moral, normal, healthy or acceptable sexual orientation. If that makes me a bigot, then good. The breeders fucking deserve a taste of their own medicine after they launched a jihad against my very existence.

I'm waiting for The Advocate to write an article on Trans bigots...huh...then again, Jupiter has more chance of crashing into earth than that happening.

Trans is bigotry against reality.

"I'm waiting for The Advocate to write an article on Trans bigots"

Considering the lesbian editor-in-chief is married to a FTM transer...don't hold your breath. They're both nice people, but , really. Don't hold your breath.

The Advocate now has Trasgenders in position of power like GLAAD and HuffPost. Is it any wonder they are attacking gay men?

They want to make it seem like Trans are the leaders of the LGBT movement, so they want to discredit the gay men, like they did the drag queens and masculine Lesbians, in order to get to that spot.

In one way it is natural selection at work, as they see gay males as the poster child of the "movement", they want to get rid of them(politically speaking) in order to take their place. What they fail to see is that their notion is completely wrong, because unlike heterosexual men, gay men are more likely to share their "privilege"(as they see it) with women. Here is what they don't get, Bisexual and Lesbian women are the most powerful block within the LGBT movement, and gay men are not afraid of having women leading them. This is why the Trans movement will never be president, because they are going against the very block that makes the majority of their community. This is the very reason the gays have turn against the Trans, yet they fail to see that!

R14 she has identify herself as Pansexual (liking all) in the past as well. I don't know if I would call her a Lesbian.

How is pansexuality any different from bisexuality in practice?

Why you guys are surprised ? Now that Trans cult has overtaken every gay media group then it is very much expected. A smear campaign against gay men, specially white gay men will be launched on regular basis . It will start with attack on white gay men, (who are biggest pillar and post of LGB movement) accusing them of being racist/misogynist . Other block of LGB group (gay men and women of color ) will join this smear campaign due to decades of racial hatred against white people . Also white lesbians will also join this smear campaign because it fits into their narrative of fight against oppressive white male patriarchy .

But this tactics of divide and rule will not stop there. After pushing white gay men to the corner these trans bullies will next attack white lesbian accusing them of racist/transphobic/ . Other LGB block will again support this smear campaign .

After fall of two biggest pillar and post LGB movement Trans will either attack or sideline rest of block of LGB group and in the end will rule it . LGBT group will become all about T.

Gays cannot be racist because racism = prejudice + power and gays do not have the power to oppress. Power requires both strength in numbers and an overwhelming desire to exert control over others, neither of which gays have.

The majority of trans people identify as heterosexual, and heterosexuals do have the power to oppress and use it almost every fucking hour of every fucking day. What is it going to take to put a stop to systemic homophobia once and for all?

It's definitely time to drop The Advocate. How is it even in print anymore?

Oh, wait. It's not. It's been digital only for years. Cause no one really cares about The Advocate.

So much of this Transmania BS has been about selling papers, increasing ratings, and stirring up shit. The big backlash will only come when the Media Powers That Be (very much in sympathy with Trans interests) realize that the public doesn't care. Caitlyn will eventually be cancelled (yes, I know there's a Season 2 coming) , they'll find a new poster child, and hopefully parents will stop misdiagnosing their gay kids. Trans will continue to be as irrelevant as they used to be.

I can only hope.

I can proudly say I only paid for a copy of the Advocate once in 1999, months after I had just come out, when the then-recently deceased Dusty Springfield, a woman-born woman and a lesbian, was on the customer and they were talking about the other women with whom she was in relationships.

Customer = cover

Lol. The Advocate?

Oh honey, no.

Just... No.

Drop the Advocate. No subscriptions, no clicks.

I want to marry Clayton.

[quote] It's definitely time to drop The Advocate. How is it even in print anymore? Oh, wait. It's not. It's been digital only for years.

I was actually getting the print edition until recently, when I told them to stop sending it, as it no longer represents my interests.

Am I a bigot if I support the trans people? I am against the word "trannie". It's a slur, and it's disgusting. I support their right to be happy, I support trans rights. But I support women's need for their own female space. I also support the continued existence of drag queens, who have been part of the gay culture for decades. Last but not least, trans people can do whatever they want to their own bodies, but I am against anyone starting hormone treatments and taking puberty blockers before they're an adult, i.e. old enough to decide for themselves. I don't think it's right that some parents decide their kid is trans when he or she is not old enough to know what that means, or heck.. even know what gender is. Some children are gender non-conforming, there's nothing wrong with that. Some boys are girlish and some girls are tomboys. Again.. nothing wrong with this. They are what they are. If it later turns out that they truly are trans then of course they should get the necessary treatment. However, I'm against children starting the treatment too soon. We don't know the side effects yet.

"We don't know the side effects yet. "

Yeah, we do. They will go crazy and assault someone, or get assaulted for being trans. Awful.

What R27 said.

R27 I can see why you would want to support Trans

0_o

This site has been taken over by conservatives. A conservative troll started that petition.

Trans is a means of reinforcing social conservatism. That's why there's more hostility towards gays than trannies from the Religious Wrong.

R31 is a troll.

The trans are the conservatives.

Bigotry is nothing new among gay men. Just read some old personal ads in ancient paper copies of The Advocate.

Bigotry against gay men is coming from all sides, and that's nothing new, either. It's just that now the bigots feel "empowered" by their anti-gay male bigotry.

It's the prissy effeminate gay men people really dislike

[quote] It's the prissy effeminate gay men people really dislike

Maybe we should be nice to them instead.

R1 - You're just wrong. How sheltered is your life that you think this?

I think the author got it right:

[quote] In short, we are never going to cleanly fit ourselves into society’s standards if we play into society’s bigotry; we need to work together toward creating a more inclusive, loving society, where we accept and celebrate our differences.

[quote]In short, we are never going to cleanly fit ourselves into society’s standards if we play into society’s bigotry; we need to work together toward creating a more inclusive, loving society, where we accept and celebrate our differences.

Translation: we need to normalize obesity, mental illness, and slovenly behavior.

[quote]more inclusive, loving society, where we accept and celebrate our differences

Sure, start with Trans dictating everyone about this and that.

The anti-trans assholes are being marginalized and treated with the contempt they deserve. Thank goodness they have their own trans-hate site now. They can stop constantly spamming us with the same boring anti-tranny rant 237 times a day.

R42 has the blood of effeminate gay boys on his hands.

R43 has "no fems" in his Grindr profile.

I don't even use Grindr, so there!

Jeez, one petition with 2K signatures really scared a lot of people.

The odd thing is that lesbian and feminist sites have been talking about this for years. One gay guy puts up a petition saying the same things that the women have been saying, and suddenly it's a few dozen op-eds and name-calling from our ("our") organizations. I don't get it.

2020 11/14/15 2:06 PM

Men are intimidating, r46. When a man gets angry, people not only listen, they feel fear.

The attention Clayton's petition is getting is a sign that the gay establishment has been intimidated.

Yes, R46. That's why the petition should steer clear from being a feminist / lesbian only petition. Which Clayton is not getting when one looks at the wordpress site.

There's a lot of territorial animosity going on here. Both Cathy Brennan and GallusMag (sp) have both said this, with CB refusing to sign the petition. GAY inc has completely tuned out the 'TERFs' but when gay men suddenly joined in, well they all went WTH?!?!

The feminist / lesbian side are not going anywhere. They're informed but ineffective. This petition has been more effective than anything else. This is why it has to be played correctly

And don't forget the gay only angles, like Stonewall and the Stonewall film, which affect gay men. Trans rewriting of gay history should not be tolerated. This is something new

Yes, don't forget to use gay men whenever possible, you opportunistic cunts.

Attention gaynazis your are not immune against being called out on your misogyny, intolerance, racism.

R46 This would be a great example of misogyny. Radical feminists have been fighting trans activists for years with little attention, but one anonymous gay man's petition has made everyone take notice and address the concern.

Clayton's awesome petition showed that 1) trans activists are less vitriolic and threatening when confronting men 2) the media notices when men speak as opposed to women 3) the importance of male voices dealing with trans issues.

Yet lesbians and feminists now refuse to take part of this, I don't get it. I mean, yes, it's sad that it only now got the attention of the press when a gay man was behind it, maybe it is misogyny. That said, isn't the issue important enough to realize that we are stronger together? If people see it as no longer being a fringe issue, but feminists, gay men and lesbians all coming together, shouldn't that be a good thing, and maybe people will take it more seriously? We all have good reasons to support this petition, before it was mostly a feminist/lesbian issue with the attack on female spaces. It became a gay issue when they started attacking Stonewall, rewriting history, not to mention the attack on drag queens.

MTF straight male Trans came after lesbians with maximum nastiness and aggression. No one in the LGBT 'community' gave a shit. Who cares if a MTF tells a lesbian he wants to cut her throat?

But they've cranked it up a gear, emboldened by Jenner's Vanity Fair hoo ha. Now they've rewritten Stonewall , defaced the monument, they are supporting MTF sex offenders, they are bitching at 'cis' gay men as 'homocons' and 'nazis'.

Now, people give a shit. It took them coming after gay men for people to push back hard and that's worrying the Official Pro Trans LGBT Industry who still reply on donations from high-earning, generous gay men to keep going.

Transgender rights people are going about this in all the wrong way. They want understanding, while at the same time attacking the people who could be their biggest supporters?

R56, there are two reasons why the transgender community does this. First, they attack gay people because they really do consider us our enemies, and the only support they want is for us to open our wallets and shut our mouths. Second, they attack us because they are mentally ill. There is unfortunately no way of getting around the inconvenient fact that it is impossible to be a transgender person and be mentally sound, which means that even if they didn't attack gays and lesbians at every opportunity, they would still be poor choices as allies.

The trans are the bigots and the right-wing. They are anti-gay, misogynist, and promote child abuse. They promote a non-scientific socially regressive ideology - ignorance. They cannot defend their ignorance so they are against free speech. Their bigotry and promotion of harm and ignorance must be pointed out and fought.

True, R55 and we have to fight these organizations because they are against us.

R58: over the top heated rhetoric doesn't help

Your comment might matter, R60, if R58 were using "over the top heated rhetoric." He is simply speaking common sense.

Claiming they are right wing and promoting child abuse is over the top.

Giving children puberty blockers is the first step in T child abuse, R62. The gateway drug, ending in hormones and surgery. How you can say that's not child abuse is beyond comprehension.

I don't know or, truly, care what wing they are. I just wish they could accept their gayness.

r62, advocating for strict gender concepts is right wing. Advocating for the use of puberty blockers on gender non-conforming children is child abuse.

[quote]Attention gaynazis your are not immune against being called out on your misogyny, intolerance, racism.

OK, R52, you asked for it.

Attention gaynazis ([italic]insert comma after "Attention," insert space between "gay" and "nazis," capitalize the word "nazis" and follow with either an exclamation point or optionally, a colon.[/italic]) your are ([italic]WTF? English really isn't your strong suit, is it? Replace "your are" with a capitalized "You are"--or not capitalized if you opted for the colon previously[/italic])not immune against ([italic]how about we nix the "against" and use "from" instead?[/italic]) being called out on your misogyny, intolerance, (consider inserting an "and" here. It is not mandatory, but it makes the sentence read more easily.[/italic]) racism. So, to put it all together now:

Attention, gay Nazis! You are not immune from being called out on your misogyny, intolerance, and racism. You hypocritical bitches!

The last sentence is an optional vulgar expression of disdain. It's a stylistic choice to be sure, and may certainly be omitted...I just thought it emphasized your previous point rather nicely..

[bold]Oh, dear!

Oh, dear!

Oh, dear![/bold]

[quote] Because, [R4], there's a difference between bigotry and raising genuine concerns about how women, gay men and non gender-conforming children are treated.

Cut the bullshit. As is evidenced by the misogynistic commentary consistently found here. Dataloungers hate women, children and nonwhite gay men. You have no genuine concern for nonwhite gays, women or children. You want to use women and children to garner support. Remember your threads about the petition. Where you shared your strategies. Not that any of this want already completely obvious. No one is fooled by your nonsense. Someone needs to start a Cut The Bullshit petition.

Oh, Cunty R66. Here. Have a towel to cry on, you poor, miserable piece of shit.

Oh, and R66, do learn to write a sentence.

Cathy Brennan doesn't represent every lesbian, R54. The petition actually was shared and discussed on Gender Trender. Yes, it's annoying that this issue is suddenly getting all this attention just because a gay man is behind it, but (as a lesbian) I'm not going to let a slight annoyance overshadow what is really important. If gay men speaking out is what it's going to take to get the attention of the big organizations then that's just what we'll have to go with.

I have seen it said that gay men contribute a lot more than lesbians to gay organizations, so maybe that's why gay men protesting has got them shaking in their boots more than lesbians doing the same ever could have.

R63: I get that you are of the opinion that hormones & puberty blockers are abuse. However, that doesn't make it universal truth.

This is a hotly debated issue with all sorts of opinions. I do not find it accurate to universally declare something child abide when there are doctors who support it and even prescribe them.

That makes it a hotly contested issue, and the jury is still out about whether or not it's 'abuse.'

I tend to agree with R66 that the 'protect the children' thing is a red herring. It usually is during any debate...

Over the top rhetoric is the trans lies in everything and that say: about science, the "brain" about women, bodies kids, teens, (but real biology cannot be discussed ever, that is "transphobia." And no one else can question their fraudulent, outrageous and harmful claims - no dissented viewpoints allowed. They must be obeyed because there are so many being murdered and committing suicide. THAT is over the top propaganda.

The hormones, drugs, puberty blockers, are definitely abuse. It doesn't end there: it's psychological abuse. They are doing this to very young kids, three and five years old - these kids will not know who they are, the truth about biology, sexuality, who they can trust, etc etc - they will not have a normal childhood and who knows what kind of an adulthood. They are not being protected and this is psychological abuse. Child abuse.

R71: it's not an 'either or' situation. I see lots of over the top propaganda being used to combat the over the top stuff you mention from the trans.

I also see very little tolerance of dissenting opinion or open discussion, just like the T does.

R70, if my psychotic homophobic mother had had puberty blockers and hormones and the pharmedical profitmakers available to her when I was young, the way today's homophobic parents do, I would now be an old gay man without a dick. And that is all I need to know.

So you can take this paragraph and shove it up your cunt:

[quote]This is a hotly debated issue with all sorts of opinions. I do not find it accurate to universally declare something child abide when there are doctors who support it and even prescribe them.

R74 is exhibit one regarding intolerance of open debate.

Giving a child puberty blockers is morally wrong, R73, no matter how many doctors and pharma companies may profit from doing so. It is not something about which there should be "opinion." It is simply evil. And so are you if you could countenance it.

Not everything is deserving of "debate," POS R75. Some things are just plain evil.

Why did they get all their knickers and binders in a twist when a gay guy started the petition? Because the thought of gay men (who, like it or not, have the money and power) waking up and remembering they have teeth scares the artificial estrogen and testosterone right out of them!

They want to pretend the petition is the belief of one gay man, but many people have been discussing it and feel that way and apparently over 2000 have signed

And I would love to see more rapprochement between gays and the lesbians/radfems who have been screaming about this for the past 25 years.

R75 would have found valid debate about the Final Solution.

Does the medical community speak out about the dangers of Avelox? Patients do, just check out the web. Horror stories. Try discussing it with a physician and they turn into the Borg, controlled by big pharma. I have no trouble believing the same could be happening with puberty blockers.

I can't believe dinosaurs like r9 and r11 still exist. Things really aren't that bad. If you are "oppressed" you need to take a long hard look at the man in the mirror and take it up with him.

Dinosaur is the 1930s Eugenic Nazi idea of science that the trans are trying to peddle.

'I can't believe dinosaurs like [R9] and [R11] still exist. '

Check the bank accounts of the LGBT Industry Orgs and you'll see the evidence of these 'dinosaurs'existence, and of their generosity, R83. GLAAD is funded by trans on social security checks, you know. It's funded by gay men I mean 'cisgendered anti-trans Nazis'.

[quote]Jeez, one petition with 2K signatures really scared a lot of people.

Revolted them, you mean.

LGBTs of Colour DO smell funny. It's not bias to point out their humor.

'Revolted them, you mean.'

Well, we all know trans are revolted by gay people, especially those who think for themselves and who may be considering whether to continue donating to Straight Identifying Trans Hijacked organisations which have turned a blind eye to the abuse of lesbians by MTF for years.

I wonder if the petition would have more than 2000 signatures if there was a more rational presentation.

Is screeching about your homophobic mother, calling someone unwarranted names, and equating different opinions with Nazis really going to change any minds?

Claiming someone would have supported the final solution because they have questions, are trying to keep an open mind, and work to turn down the temperature of the discussion doesn't portray you as a credible source.

There is no "open mind" to be had when it comes to transitioning children. You shouldn't do it.

R90: are you saying the issue should be tabled for an individual until they are 18?

Sex change hormones render the patient infertile in almost all cases.

16 year old non-conforming kids in distress are being issued unnecessary medications which will prevent them having biological children.

The trans want these drugs given on demand to younger kids.

Some of us are going to be on the right side of the fence on this bullshit when these kids are freaking out in a few years, asking why the lGBT community did not speak out to protect them.

'...screeching about your homophobic mother '

R89, maybe you had the nice supportive parental types when you came out. If you are even gay. Many don't, many gay people are disowned and abandoned by their homophobic parents. Many of us here know what pressure non-conforming kids are under. Many of us understand how easy it would be for puberty blockers and sex change hormones to be forced on a kid who would otherwise grow up to be gay, fertile, and well.

So , fuck you and your scolding condescension towards R74.

"[R90]: are you saying the issue should be tabled for an individual until they are 18?"

I dont know about R90, but I am saying that.

I love you, R93.

[quote][R90]: are you saying the issue should be tabled for an individual until they are 18?

You bet your sweet ass I am, R91. 21, if possible.

When I look up puberty blockers it says they are not approved by the FDA for GID and that it is prescribed "off label"

Is this true? While it might not be an outright condemnation by the medical community, it's not exactly an endorsement.

R93: I know exactly what that's like. My mother blackmailed me to stay in the closet when I came out to her and my father didn't speak to me for 3 years after he found out.

You and R74 don't own the issue and he deserves to be scolded and looked down upon for lashing out unprovoked at someone who dares to push back at his perspective.

Try taking your own advice and then try and remember the world is a much bigger place than you and your hang ups.

You can't look down on me, R98, because no matter what you say, I will always look down upon you. The desire not to see lives ruined by puberty blockers is hardly a "hang up," and your insistence on calling it so will always place me on the higher moral ground.

Now flush, turd.

[quote]Yet lesbians and feminists now refuse to take part of this, I don't get it

Not all of them. Geez. Just the ones who want to take credit for being there first. Plenty of lesbians and feminists have signed the petition.

Cathy Brennan is informed but honestly she's almost as crazy as those from the Trans Cult. She's not a good example of someone fighting this.

This is whole thing was galvanized by gays who are fed up with Trans rewriting our history. As far as I know, no lesbian has ever started a petition like this. It's blunt and succinct (maybe too nice). That's why it took hold. All this press for 2000 signatures? It shows how tuned out Gay inc and the Trans Cult were regarding RadFems and lesbians.

Who is the model? He's really hot and he can finger me all he wants.

[quote] Oh, Cunty [R66]. Here. Have a towel to cry on, you poor, miserable piece of shit.

[quote] Oh, and [R66], do learn to write a sentence.

Well, this certainly lends some credibility to your argument.

This *is* Datalounge, R102, not whatever so-called PC debating society you crawled out from under.

It is laughable, this screeching about "the children!" It's just something said to garner support and there is less than no meaning no behind it. No one actually gives a fuck.

The actual motto of the "gay community" is "No white, no hot, no care."

Yes r104, I understand you have issues with gay people. Anyone would if they'd only met them online at Datalounge.

R66 has you dead to rights. Awful people.

R104 is a monolist : sees everything in monolithic way

[quote]this screeching about "the children!"

It's gender non-conforming children, you blockhead.

Gays were once kids.

They see what they're doing to non-gender conforming kids

They understand more than anyone else what might happen to them.

Your reactionary thinking shows you think very little

R107 for sainthood, presidency, something good.

Nothing you said changes my point, R107. The screeching about "gender non-conforming children" is phony.

So is "monolist," R109. No such word.

Blockhead, indeed

[quote]The screeching about "gender non-conforming children" is phony.

If you actually believe this, you are as cruel as you are stupid.

[qquote]So is "monolist," [R109]. No such word.

So is :

"cis"

"TERF"

"Female penis"

"Lady brain"

etc

Bullshit, R106. If you think all it takes to shut us up is to yell "Racist! Sexist" like we're some cowering university professor afraid of never making tenure, you are terribly mistaken. You have the wrong crowd here.

We're very sorry that gay men can't be like the transgender movement, an alliance comprised of self-loathers, fetishists and child abusers, so if you feel that we're not up to your high standards, I suggest you go elsewhere.

Those words aren't part of my vocabulary. So not sure what your point is, R113.

[quote]If you actually believe this, you are as cruel as you are stupid.

And you need to give up the charade.

[quote]We're very sorry that gay men can't be like the transgender movement, an alliance comprised of self-loathers, fetishists...

This is rich.

You can't even quote, R115. Not sure what you think is "rich."

And what "charade"?

[quote]I wonder if the petition would have more than 2000 signatures if there was a more rational presentation.

42% is a fairly substantial minority, especially given the way the onetime-gay organizations have pissed all over the DTT petition.

[quote] This *is* Datalounge, [R102], not whatever so-called PC debating society you crawled out from under.

Do tell. Who knew? Please by all means continue embarrassing yourself and your foolish cause. Do pardon my interruption. You may now return to your regularly scheduled foolishness.

My "cause" is not "foolish," R118. You are evil. If it were up to you and your ilk, we would simply let the moron majority decide whether kids get drugs and surgery, and YOUR "cause" would win, at least at this moment. And sometime down the line, we would all wake up and realize what a horrible wrong had been done to these people. It's the lobotomy of the 21st century. I'd rather head it off than regret it later.

You, R118, are a bad person. A very bad person.

R119 is correct. I'm hoping we can make a difference now, but even if we can't effect change, we will have known we tried and did the right thing.

I still have a crush on you ATT- R10, R56?, R58, R62, R70, R73, R75, R89, R91, R98.

Did I get all your posts right this time? No I didn't use the ignore button because that would be cheating, my love. I feel you and I have a psychic connection at this point and all your talk of gay bigotry and "we really don't know if puberty blockers have any negative side-affects on children yet" gets me so wet I can practically feel your feminine penis cumming on me through the screen.

Epic fail R121...

Some of those posts contradict each other and are clearly arguing from opposite sides.

Not to mention, I am not trans and my penis is all man @ well beyond the scope of your understanding!

Are you washing down your meds with the grain alcohol again??

Poor thing...

Ring the bell and the nice young man will turn up to change your diaper and slip the sugar free hard candy between your cheek & the gums that hold your 2 remaining teeth

[quote] My "cause" is not "foolish," [R118]. You are evil. If it were up to you and your ilk, we would simply let the moron majority decide whether kids get drugs and surgery, and YOUR "cause" would win, at least at this moment. And sometime down the line, we would all wake up and realize what a horrible wrong had been done to these people. It's the lobotomy of the 21st century. I'd rather head it off than regret it later. You, [R118], are a bad person. A very bad person.

Oh come on now. Try, at least a tiny bit, to present yourself as somewhat sane.

[quote] [R119] is correct. I'm hoping we can make a difference now, but even if we can't effect change, we will have known we tried and did the right thing.

More bullshit. Nobody is buying this new found selfless commitment to the women and children. Excluding the transgender crowd from the gay movement will save how many children or precious "special snowflake crotch fruit" (as they are known here) from the evil clutches of the scary evil trans.

How about we cut the transgender crowd because they have nothing to do with being gay or lesbian?

Is that a good enough reason?

I'm afraid not, R124. You see, straight men with boob jobs have decided they want a slice of our LGB pie, so we'll just have to keep giving them seats on the boards of LGB founded and funded organisations, and shut up.

I don't think it's just that a gay man started the petition. I think timing had a lot to do with it--HERO went down in flames over the bathroom issue. Let's face it, nobody, but trans activists wants penised people in women's bathrooms. Some people don't care one way or another, many people object, but only a few people actually want it.

There aren't enough trans people (and plenty of those who are don't feel the need for bathroom rights uber alles) for the trans movement to make it on its own. The T needs LGB money, votes and political clout. However, they've already alienated a lot of the Ls (who don't have the money of the Gs and Bs) by bullying them and now they're alienating the Gs. Which leaves the Bs who are the least politically committed of the bunch.

By getting themselves into key positions at GLBT publications and in GLBT political groups, Trans activists thought they had matters well in hand. But what the HERO vote and the GLB petition show is that, politically, Trans activists have made a bad miscalculation. The current freak-out comes off as foot-stamping denial and pretty feeble attempt to marginalize the views of anyone who disagrees with the trans agenda.

But I don't know how well that's going to work next time they coming looking for a hand-out from rich white gay men.

You actually think that 2000 cyber signatures and whining about homophobes in Texas is going to convince everyone to hate transgender people?

hyperbole isn't helping you r127

I'm not trying to get anyone to "hate transgender people." I only want the childhood transitioning to stop. I couldn't give a shit about the rest of their assholery.

Your threads are overflowing with trans-hate hyperbole. Do you think it's helping you?

Typical histrionics at R127.

Gender dysmorphic people? OK, they are mentally ill and suffering, I'm sorry for them but don't believe the surgery works to cure their distress. The evidence shows many of them remain very unhappy. I don;t hate them if they behave respectfully to others.

The straight men with tits? I'm not a fan. They treat lesbians like shit, and their idea of what 'a woman' is, is a bad joke from 1958.

The 'genderqueer / fluid' nuts? Well, most of them will grow up eventually , calm down and come out as lez or gay. I don;t hate them but they are annoying as hell.

Oh, honey, that's not hate. That's just recognition of the evil they do, and want to do, to children.

How many children have actually transitioned? I've never seen reputable studies or any hard numbers. Isn't this just a "what if" melt-down from feminists who are using "what about the CHILDREN" in exactly the same smarmy way that the right wing does?

Bingo R133

R130, this is a gay board, and gays fund the organisations that support your agenda. We are allowed to discuss that agenda. If you don't like the discussion, that's just tough.

'How many children have actually transitioned?'

Trans are pushing to present little kids on social media as 'trans'. They are sick.

And kids as young as 16 are being made infertile by being given sex change hormones. Infertile, at 16. Because they are being brain washed into believing this 'transgender' horseshit.

Hyperbole isn't helping you r130

[quote] Let's face it, nobody, but trans activists wants penised people in women's bathrooms.

I'm not trans or an activist, but I want trans women in women's bathrooms for the exact same reason I am concerned about gender non-conforming children being pressured into a trans treatment track -- because I care about vulnerable people and I don't want to see them trampled in a rigid adherence to gender norms. I don't care how crazy or hateful anyone on any side of this issue gets, if I keep my eye on that goal none of this shit is that complicated.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

That's how I became aware of transgenderism, R133, by reading about a hospital in my state that opened a Gender/Sexual-Identity program for Children. I was mostly unaware -- more accepting than not, had anyone asked -- of the current state of transgenderism up to that point. It simply had nothing to do with me.

But I was one of those children, your "special snowflakes," whose parents would have rushed him to such a clinic had such a thing existed in my childhood.

[quote]I still have a crush on you ATT

LOL. I'm the guy you originally dubbed ATT and the only one you got right was r10, which is me. You are making an ass of yourself every time you insist that the large group of people who disagree with you is really just one obsessed person who follows you around to torment you. No, bitch. A lot of people are turned off by your argument and the way you make it.

[quote]I only want the childhood transitioning to stop.

Not really up to you, unless you have the medical and/or psychiatric credentials to back it up.

[quote]we'd show you a million examples and you'd still deny it. Stay in the dark.

You linked to a story about someone who transitioned at 18, so... not a child.

What is ATT?

Wow, R142. You can justify that? You really are a bad person.

The process starts early, numb nuts. The kids were kids when it all started. You're beyond help.

WPATH CONSENSUS PROCESS Regarding TRANSGENDER and TRANSSEXUAL-RELATED DIAGNOSES:

Stigmatizing children with a diagnostic label when there is no disorder; diagnosis can become iatrogenic, instilling a sense in the child that “there is something wrong with me”; and a poor predictive value – 80% of children diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder do not continue to have GID of adolescence or adulthood.

-----

Specifically, research indicates it is ***impossible to reliably distinguish between a gender-variant child who will grow up to become trans and a gender-variant child who will grow up to be gay, lesbian, or bisexual, but not trans.*** As such, by conflating gender variance and sexual orientation, the proposed GIC category amounts to a re-pathologization of homosexuality."

The classic arrogance of the 'progressive.' You are awful for what you think, unless it matches exactly what I think. The reasoning in that article is a circular firing squad.

Yes, R147

The article denounces judgemental "bigots" by using judgemental reasoning

I'm not interested in anecdotes, one 18 year old or wild and unfounded claims about children having transitioned. I'm interested in hard numbers, reputable data and facts. I have yet to see evidence of a single child having his dick cut off and transitioning.

FYI, not everyone who questions or disagrees with you is transgender you know.

W&W for R149

[quote]In short, we are never going to cleanly fit ourselves into society’s standards if we play into society’s bigotry; we need to work together toward creating a more inclusive, loving society, where we accept and celebrate our differences.

Just how long do you think the average lifespan is?

Which "article"? R139 or R146?

R149, my reservations are about the puberty blockers being off script, i.e. not listed as this intended purpose by the FDA. I keep seeing posts about how the medical profession would be protesting more and that psychologists are recommending, and they know better. The FDA has not cleared these drugs for use as puberty blockers. That might be enough for me.

Let's drop ALL the letters. We are all the same species yet we are all completely and totally different. Enough already.

Fresca's hard to find these days, R154. May I recommend Sprite for their panty shields instead?

I thought the most telling quote was the observation gays are getting on with their lives, so the gay establishment is going where the money is and that's the trainee bandwagon.

Thanks, just got some Tab. I have sufficient.

Just don't use Coke... that stuff will rot your balls off!

Hey, I just had an idea...

[R158] Only half a glass of Coke for Lance Armstrong.

Whose side is R146 on?

Ah yes, ATT we meet again R141. I'm so sorry our last attempted lovemaking session didn't work out because the festering wounds on your newly carved out front hole hadn't quite healed yet. We'll have to invite R122 along next time to help apply gauze. You can still talk dirty to me though. You know the homophobic slurs I like. The ones you use against any gay person who disagrees with you that got two threads shut down.

R141: this loon at R161 needs to be committed. If you look at his ATT post, you and I are 2 of 4 different people he listed as one person.

Within the 4, there is a diversity of opinion that has no cohesion and toggles back and forth to each side of this issue.

Even in his post at R161, he references your 'newly carved out front hole' after his earlier mention (R121) of 'feeling your feminine penis' through the screen.

He is laughably bad at trolling and cannot handle his liquor very well...

R127, your grasp of nuance is stunning.

[quote]This is a hotly debated issue with all sorts of opinions. I do not find it accurate to universally declare something child abide when there are doctors who support it and even prescribe them.

When will you realize that doctors have their own agenda? The only reason they support the trans is that it's big business for them. All those people needing puberty blockers, hormones and eventually srs means big bucks.

Yeah, because every doctor who got into medicine did so with the agenda of serving big pharma

No, R165, it's a profit-maker for the doctors, too.

R166: any source you can cite to prove every doctor involved in this issue is doing so for profit?

[quote]I also see very little tolerance of dissenting opinion or open discussion, just like the T does.

Not true. I have spoken about the fact that I support the trans, I want them to be happy and I support trans rights, using the slur "trannie" disgusts me. I will also of course refer to them with their preferred pronouns. That being said, we obviously have conflicting goals and agendas. We need to go our separate ways. That is why I support the DTT campaign, and like everyone else here I am skeptical towards puberty blockers being used on kids who might not be old enough to understand what is going on, or even what gender is or means. I wouldn't go as far as to call it child abuse, but it is worrisome. I also question the parents who think all gender non-confirming children must be trans, when that isn't the case at all. I support children's right to be themselves, to actually have a childhood, then when they're old enough to make a decision they can, but it's not right that the parents make it for them. Also.. maybe when they grow up they won't need to start treatment because guess what, only a handful of these gender-non confirming children are actually trans.

Well thank goodness not all millennials are morons.. At least a few, in the "comments" section of this article, call out the trans snake oil for what it is (which is actually pretty brave).

R168: your post is reasonable and worth considering. Thank you for that...

I vote R168 to speak more often on this issue

The Advocate...

I suppose if the 'Advocate' was jumping off the Brooklyn Bridge, you'd be right behind it!

Drop the fucking Advocate! They hate gay men!

There really are some excellent comments.

The comments section actually gives me hope that not all is lost to idiocy..

It's not all lost. The SJW trannies taking over LG sometimes B media don't speak for anyone but themselves.

[quote]Yet lesbians and feminists now refuse to take part of this, I don't get it.

Oh, I get it. It didn't even occur to me until a couple weeks ago when someone linked to an old post on a feminist blog from 2010 or maybe earlier. I saw they'd been saying the same thing DLers and Clayton were, and I realized what was going on.

After years of death threats and TERF bullshit and "you're a bigot if you don't fuck my feminine penis" and "we make better women than you," to find out that the orgs didn't give a shit about what was happening to me until a few gays spoke out, I'd be too pissed off to join up with them, too.

[quote] When I look up puberty blockers it says they are not approved by the FDA for GID and that it is prescribed "off label" Is this true?

Yeah, absolutely true. I mentioned it two or three times to the scold who comes to these threads and claims that there are solid, government-approved guidelines for gender transition of kids and adolescents. The scold pretends like he doesn't see my comments.

There are no approved treatments or guidelines. Several medical organizations and medical centers and universities have their own guidelines (and some insurance companies do, too) but the research is SEVERELY lacking, and as you noticed, meds are being used off label. Doctors make their own choices in this regard and are, often, flying in the dark when it comes to treatment and transition.

Because the hormones are off label there are almost no tests done to indicate what could be some serious side effects. The kids using them now are guinea pigs.

Pleasantly surprised by the gay men willing to call out the T's in that blog!

R177, no one ever listened to lesbians and feminists because they so relish playjng the victim that naturally people dismissed their complaints as more of their perpetual whining. They seem to enjoy complaining about patriarchal oppression so much that no one would dare deny them the opportunity.

Perhaps people are willing to listen to gay men because we write the checks. If lesbians can remind us constantly hoe each and every one of them played Florence Nightingale during the AIDS crisis, we can remind them who paid the bill for those lawyers and lobbyists who have secured our rights.

Anyone who sits out when their cause is gaining traction because they aren't basking in the spotlight is exposed as a fraud

Exactly. Gay men pay the gay bill. Everyone else can go fuck themself.

No, R180, you don't have to feed infighting that helps the destructive T ideology. What happened is that there was a backlash against feminism with the rise of the right wing in the 80s that completely marginalized and almost completely silenced the genuine feminist point of view. A fake feminism started that attacked the genuine feminists and feminist analysis, and this fake feminism supported things that were against feminism, ex.: "prostitution is empowering" etc, attacked genuine feminists and talked about trivial matters posing no threat to the social order - this fake feminism has been promoted in the media and universities for the past three decades. That is actually what is happening to the gay movement right now. It is becoming anti-gay, a fake gay movement to attack gay men/lesbians. Again, media and universities are involved.

The next time some well-meaning hetero goes off on conspiracy theories about how Republicans want to rip apart the LGB from the T, I will direct them to R180.

No one needs to rip us apart, not with people like R180 in the world. And there are plenty.

[quote]Ah yes, ATT we meet again [R141]. I'm so sorry our last attempted lovemaking session didn't work out because the festering wounds on your newly carved out front hole hadn't quite healed yet. We'll have to invite [R122] along next time to help apply gauze. You can still talk dirty to me though. You know the homophobic slurs I like. The ones you use against any gay person who disagrees with you that got two threads shut down.

This is that thoughtful, open concerned-about-the-children discussion you keep talking about, right?

I never once wrote a homophobic slur in my life, liar.

R167, do you know doctors who practice for free? I don't.

I don't know how it is in the US, but in my country trans people thinking of transitioning have to go through a number of psych evaluations, to determine if they really are trans, if they don't meet the set target then they are not allowed to transition. This might be seen as transphobic or whatever, but I think it's a sound way of doing it. You weed out all the autogynephiles and fetishists and are left with only those who are true trans.

R187, what country?

Norway, R188.

[quote]After years of death threats and TERF bullshit and "you're a bigot if you don't fuck my feminine penis" and "we make better women than you," to find out that the orgs didn't give a shit about what was happening to me until a few gays spoke out, I'd be too pissed off to join up with them, too.

I knew nothing of this until 2015, when I started reading about hormones and PBs being given to children. Lesbians and gay men live in very separate communities, in spite of the initialism.

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings ATT R185. I'll still suck your artificially constructed cock if you want me to. Friends again?

R187 many Trans believe that process is considered transphobic. It's the right way but there's more and more political push to remove those steps.

"The Advocate now has Trasgenders in position of power like GLAAD and HuffPost. Is it any wonder they are attacking gay men?"

Gays have way more power than trans people

[quote]Gays have way more power than trans people

Not at the erstwhile gay organizations. Not anymore. They exist for the trans now.

r194, that is not true at all, and you know it.

R195 has not been paying attention.

Trans are over-represented on the boards of the big organisations.

From 'How the Trans Takover i Reshaping LGBT politics', from Queerty:

'GLAAD's board includes four current transgender board members. I’ve been deeply concerned about recent mission creep and board member conduct at GLAAD, the most problematic of which has recently come from two of the board’s four transgender women: writers Jennifer Finney Boylan and Christina Kahrl.

Before the appointment of Meghan McCain and three men, trans women were represented on GLAAD’s board at 11 times our actual ratio within the LGBT community. Out trans men are not represented at all. Boylan even boasts of this: “GLAAD is now largely run by trans people.” As of May, 80 percent of the GLAAD board was assigned and socialized as boys growing up. Also, bisexual people, who are a larger population than gays and lesbians combined, are vastly under-represented on the board and in GLAAD’s agenda. I believe these disproportionate representations are driving much of the recent conflict within the LGBT community on media issues, where trans people, mainly trans lesbians, are clashing with gay men, lesbians, drag queens and kings, and other gender-variant performers. And they go about it, like, well… people socialized as straight white males.'

General GLAAD Board facts, as of May 2014

• Bisexual people are significantly under-represented

• Gay men are over-represented at about twice actual ratio

• 19 of 24 members (~80%) were assigned and socialized as boys

Transgender-related GLAAD Board facts

• Transgender men are not represented

• Transgender straight people (gay/lesbian pre-transition) are not represented

• 44 percent of women are gynephilic trans women, about 11 times actual ratio

• No transgender GLAAD Board members are

• drag performers

• crossdressers

• transgenderists

• genderqueer

• All current transgender GLAAD Board members

• are white, middle-aged

• were socialized and identified as straight pre-transition

• married women pre-transition

• One current trans board member believes drag “achieves nothing of value.” Statistical source: UCLA Williams Institute, 2011.

[quote]All current transgender GLAAD Board members...are white, middle-aged...were socialized and identified as straight pre-transition

Absolute lunacy! They shouldn't represent the GLB

R194, these people aren't interested in the truth. They're interested in attacking trannies because they blame them for Michfest not making enough money to stay afloat.

They're only here to use gay men to bolster their cause. They've posted their strategy on how best to manipulate us into joining them. They cynically use "the children" to frighten people and get them riled up, as most scumbag hustlers of this sort do. They make no bones about coming up with new ways to use children for their own ends.

I presume they'll be asking us for money sooner or later, it's another way to use us.

R200: "This is the day... I doubled up on my cray."

....

r198, Why would you expect trans people to be into drag or crossdressing? Drag is mostly gay (cis) men and crossdressing is mostly straight (cis) men. Those two things involve play, whereas trans want to present as the opposite gender in all sincerity all the time.

[quote]And they go about it, like, well… people socialized as straight white males.'

This is the ugly truth. We need to get better at having these conversations so that we can deal with this reality without trans women being/feeling attacked. It's possible to acknowledge the effects of childhood socialization without denying their sense of their own gender.

[quote]They cynically use "the children" to frighten people and get them riled up

r200, I think TERFs are some of the most loathsome people around and am willing to credit them with intentionally using hysteria to gather support, but I am completely mystified by people who don't see the legitimate concern around gender nonconforming kids. Let's be blunt - it's not "think of the children!" It's "think of the little sissy boys!" Think of the boys who practiced dialing the phone with a pencil. Think of all those sweet manifestations of queerness that some gay boys exhibit from a young age. Just when we're starting to make some progress with people not looking at those little boys and thinking "great, a useless fucking fag" we now have the trans movement come along (with some of them) wanting to treat those signs as symptoms of a condition that requires treatment. And we have to deal with the reality that some parents are going to be more comfortable imagining that their son was born in the wrong body than with the idea that their son is gay. That is the concern. I'm not terribly worried about doctors running with this and doing irreversible medical/surgical treatment, but I can see a lot of damage being done by these little boys being treated, well, like they need to be treated.

What's a TERF again? And while I get what the (ridiculous) cis is supposed to identify, why that in particular?

[quote]Drag is mostly gay men and crossdressing is mostly straight men.

Fixed.

If this keeps up, speaking approved trans is going to create a growth opportunity for Berlitz.

This thread was ruined when all the SJWs from tumblr came. They still have no valid arguments though. Scoffing about using "the children!" is about as ignorant as you can get. Oh well.. at least we'll always have the other website.

Oh and btw, you hateful trans activists, you DO know calling everyone "terfs" is not exactly helping your case, right? a GAY MAN actually started the petition. This became a gay issue when the trans tried to rewrite history and when they had the nerve to attack ru paul and other drag queens.

No, there's a difference between being trans and being gay. Most people aren't stupid and most people aren't going to presume their kid is trans when their kid is actually gay. Your hysteria is unfounded and ridiculous.

Show me a little boy whose parents cut off his dick and transitioned him. Go ahead, just one - any one at all. You can't because no one is cutting off little boys' dicks.

Stop lying.

[quote]gaynazis

I've long dreamed of giving homophobes one-way tickets to concentration camps and then firing up the ovens once again.

[quote]I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings ATT [R185]. I'll still suck your artificially constructed cock if you want me to. Friends again?

Now be sure to tell us again how you truly support trans people but you're just worried about the children and upset that the transtapo keeps shutting down your very open and concerned attempts at discussion.

[quote]You can't because no one is cutting off little boys' dicks.

But they are giving them puberty blockers and hormone treatments, and that can't possibly be good for your body in the long run.

[quote]You can't because no one is cutting off little boys' dicks.

Yet.

I just thank God I didn't have to deal with this. I hope that doesn't cutting. ;)

Right. Like I said, no one is cutting off little boys dicks. You can't even find a single case. Not one.

'No, there's a difference between being trans and being gay. Most people aren't stupid and most people aren't going to presume their kid is trans when their kid is actually gay. Your hysteria is unfounded and ridiculous.'

Your naiveté is ridiculous.

Many boys who grow up to be gay men are feminine in their gender presentation. The classic baby gay type of kid. If you cannot understand, or rather, if you refuse for your ideological reasons to acknowledge that non-gender conforming behavior in a boy with homophobic parents would potentially freak them out and have them jumping to the solution of 'he's a girl! Let's get him hormones! no f*g son for us!' then you have no fucking business posting on a GAY board.

How's your trans-hate website coming along? Ready to go yet? What's the hold-up?

r214, what the hell is wrong with you? You can't possibly be a gay man. You don't need to cut off a little boy's dick or put him on hormone blockers to traumatize him. Even if the doctors don't go along with that sort of treatment (as I assume most wouldn't), just the process of being taken to see assorted medical/mental health professionals as if his effeminancy is a sickness that needs to be looked into would be hard on a child.

[quote]Right. Like I said, no one is cutting off little boys dicks. You can't even find a single case. Not one.

Not yet, perhaps, R214. But do you think Jazz Jennings is going to keep his penis?

You still can't come up with a single case of a little boy whose parents cut off his dick because he "presented in a feminine way" and they freaked out about it. Not one.

Oh but even taking him to a doctor who WON'T DO ANYTHING TO HIM is too traumatizing to be borne!

You're morons, hysterical morons. You don't give a fuck about kids or anything else beyond your fucked up, tiny world of adult women who hate and fear men.

"TERF" = "Trans Exclusive Radical Feminist" It's a term invented by the autogynephile Trans to marginalize and demonize the voices of real lesbians.

Thanks, r219, for stepping up and demonstrating what a person who was socialized as a straight white male sounds like. Should you want to do a better job passing in the future, I recommend working on your empathy skills.

R219's probably cranky. Tucking your cock between your legs all day leads to awful chaffing, you know.

R219 doesn't understand what "yet" means.

Thank you, R220. Now WTF is autogenophyileminogue?

The funniest thing is that despite all the evidence to the contrary, you insist that the only people who could possibly find you appalling are Transgenders.

Wake up and look around, try to deal with the reality that most people don't hate trannies. Most people have compassion for them. Most people think you're awful bigots and they're right about that.

R225 is projecting its homophobia onto us.

Those of us who are critical of transgenderism don't hate transgenders. I don't, anyway. I just want them to keep their hands off the kids. Oh, and if they could either retire "cis" or stop telling those of us whom they victimize with such nomenclature what we are to call them, they would seem that much less hateful.

R227: You hit the nail on the head. Most trans are not gay, yet many of them think they have the right to dictate what to call gay people?

[quote]But do you think Jazz Jennings is going to keep his penis?

Jazz Jennings is 15 years old, which makes her yet another lousy example of a "little boy" coming from your side of this argument.

I don't hate transgenders, but I find their proponents to often unnecessarily combative, narrow minded, absolute and rude and their politics and speak risible. I feel sorry for transgenders, real pity. Whatever the reason for their situation, it is a difficult place to be. But this notion that the whole world must then bend for them exactly as they dictate... it's just not gonna happen, so the leadership better start leaning the art of compromise.

He's underage, R229.

I have an enormous amount of compassion for trans people. I think it would totally suck to have to deal with that. I want them to be protected by anti-discrimination laws and I want them to have access to the care that they need. I'm just capable of seeing other factors and concerns in play.

[quote] I just want them to keep their hands off the kids.

I don't think we need to worry about trans people forcefully converting children. It's the heteronormative parents/teachers/therapists we need to worry about there.

And I understand the irritation with "cis" but it's easier to type than "not trans" or "people whose genitalia match their sense of their own gender." Do the people objecting to "cis" have a suggested alternative that acknowledges trans as a legitimate thing?

Question: if a tranny goes whole hog and completes the surgery, do they then stop referring to themselves as transgender and consider themselves "cis"?

[quote]He's underage, [R229].

And she hasn't fully transitioned yet, making her a lousy example of a "little boy" getting his dick cut off. No one calls 15-year-olds "little boys."

In the eyes of US law, there is no difference between a 5-year-old and a 15-year-old.

I've gone through the thread again, R234. I have not once used the phrase "little boy(s)". I refer to "children," i.e., people under 18.

It seems to be the transtapo who use "little boy" as an inflammatory buzzword.

Jazz Jennings will be made infertile by the sex change hormones they are going to be given when they hit 16, if they haven't been issued already.

Jazz said in 2013 they wanted to a 'a mother'. That means she will have to adopt. Fine. But 16 is too young to decide you are going to be happy with life-long infertility and adoption as your only parenting option.

Why not Fixed Gender, R233? Or Stat (as in static) Gender?

Why not choose a word that actually means something instead of this invented (and irritating) cis bullshit? I know everybody on the side of justice and war takes their lingo babble seriously but out in the real world, where decisions are made and laws are passed and changed effected, it tends to drive people bonkers. You people have a lot to learn about getting things down. Right now you seem mostly to have mastered the art of the toddler in tantrum.

In the eyes of any rational, marginally intelligent person, there is a huge difference between a five year old and a fifteen year old.

[quote] If you cannot understand, or rather, if you refuse for your ideological reasons to acknowledge that non-gender conforming behavior in a boy with homophobic parents would potentially freak them out and have them jumping to the solution of 'he's a girl! Let's get him hormones! no f*g son for us!"

In all seriousness, no I do not understand the fear that homophobic parents would rather cut their son's penis off than accept him as gay. Nor do I understand why a doctor would do such a thing, unless they too are supposed to be so homophobic, they're willing to operate on children to prevent any more gays from forming.

Sorry, it's a hysterical - in every sense of the word - notion.

[quote] In the eyes of any rational, marginally intelligent person, there is a huge difference between a five year old and a fifteen year old.

And there is an even huger difference between United States law and rational, marginally intelligent people.

Saying you 'like' or 'fell compassion for ' or 'hate' trangenders is pretty meaningless, given that the term itself is totally misused and abused by a wide range of very different people.

The genuinely gender dysmorphic deserve compassion (unless they are assholes) , they suffer mental health problems.

The 'transgenders' who are straight male fetishists in stocking with fake tits? Nothing to do with me. most of them are conservative assholes.

The 'trangender' sex offenders who decide they are 'women' in jail for rape, and demand to be housed with women? Nope, no compassion whatsoever for them, sorry.

[quote] Sorry, it's a hysterical - in every sense of the word - notion.

"Hysterical" is a sexist remark.

[quote]In all seriousness, no I do not understand the fear that homophobic parents would rather cut their son's penis off than accept him as gay.

In all seriousness, you never met my mother.

[quote]I've gone through the thread again, [R234]. I have not once used the phrase "little boy(s)". I refer to "children," i.e., people under 18.

No, but the person who offered Jazz Jennings' name, did so in r218, after quoting someone else asking for an example of a little boy getting his dick cut off. Jazz Jennings makes a terrible answer to that question.

[quote]It seems to be the transtapo who use "little boy" as an inflammatory buzzword.

Once again, just another friendly FYI: sentences like this are a big reason why no one ever believes you when you start whining about how you just want to have an open and concerned discussion.

R239, 15 years of age to too young to make core decisions about your life which will affect you for the rest of your life : like, the decision to take drugs that will render you infertile.

There are too many older effeminate men who are projecting this hysteria. They think about what their homophobic parents might have done to them if they were gaylings in 2015 and that creates a theoretical anxiety that fuels the idea that the trans are nothing more than right wing homophobes looking to eradicate effeminate boys

[quote]"Hysterical" is a sexist remark.

"Transtapo" is a hysterical remark.

When you stop calling me "cis," R248, I'll stop calling you "transtapo."

[quote]Right. Like I said, no one is cutting off little boys dicks. You can't even find a single case. Not one.

Why should we have to? Children as young as 3 are being labelled "trans". That's sick. A lot of mental damage can be done. It doesn't need to be physical, even though age limits to physical treatment are constantly being challenged.

I have never once called you "cis," r249. What a bizarre thing to say.

[quote]Why should we have to?

Because your side keeps claiming that this is a serious concern underlying your ant-trans agenda.

Actually, R245, now that we receive notice of our W&Ws, I am able to tell you a lot of people believe me. And I did not "whine" about "open and concerned" anything. You're wrong. I know it. Nothing to "whine" about.

[quote]Right. Like I said, no one is cutting off little boys dicks. You can't even find a single case. Not one.

YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET YET

While raising a ridiculous argument based on wild supposition, R247, stumbles upon an interesting question: is all this youth focused trans acceptance (in the clinical sense) getting ahead of itself? Often the rush to embrace new wonder approaches can seem somewhat hasty and ill considered in retrospect. I'd hate to think the relentless demands of social justice leaves some poor kid up the creek without reproductive organs.

[quote] I'm not trans or an activist, but I want trans women in women's bathrooms for the exact same reason I am concerned about gender non-conforming children being pressured into a trans treatment track -- because I care about vulnerable people and I don't want to see them trampled in a rigid adherence to gender norms. I don't care how crazy or hateful anyone on any side of this issue gets, if I keep my eye on that goal none of this shit is that complicated.

Too bad little girls and women faced with an autogynephile and his throbbing cock don't rate as vulnerable to you then.

The bathroom issue can be solved simply: continue building gender neutral or one occupant family bathrooms. And women with penises should politely stay out of the Women's Washroom.

Up to R251, the word "cis" was used 15 times. You, personally, may not have called me, personally, "cis," but it is definitely part of the conversation. I find it to be hate speech, using the first syllable of "sissy" to describe gay men. Hate speech.

[quote]Right. Like I said, no one is cutting off little boys dicks. You can't even find a single case. Not one.

The majority of adult Trans Women **keep** their dicks. The issue is not just physical harm, physical transformation but mental harm. No one under a certain age has any clue about "trans." This is something that's pushed by "enlightened" parents and the Trans cult.

R255: the supposition of my theory is no less wild or ridiculous than those like R254 who simply chant YET into this echo chamber

R254: I resemble that remark!

If that's the height of your bar, R260, you might consider ceding the argument.

R245, when you're my age, 15 is a "little boy."

[quote]Because your side keeps claiming that this is a serious concern underlying your ant-trans agenda.

Nice try, but regarding children, the worry so far has only been about hormones and the psychological abuse of convincing kids that their clothing/behaviour is unacceptable for their sex. When they start operating children, which they just might, we can talk futher about that.

That must be why you are so out of touch with what young and middle-aged people are thinking on this issue, R263.

Stick to moon cups and nut loaves, it's what you're good at.

What is a moon cup?

Here, R266:

Mr Williamson is quite cute:

What we're seeing in this thread is the Rise of Anti-gay Bigots.

Specs-Appeal:

Nope R262. Just pointing out the hypocrisy of those who cherry pick. There are all sorts of loons on both sides engaging in wild speculation to fear monger. At least my theory is supported by the posters on datalounge.

^^postings, not necessarily posters

[quote]Up to [R251], the word "cis" was used 15 times.

And in none of those instances, was anyone in this thread called by the term. In fact, virtually all uses of the term in this thread have been to mock the term.

I've only ever seen "cis" used on the DL and it's always used when making fun of it.

I never see/hear anyone using it in day to day life. It took me a while to figure out what it even meant.

Your theory is supported by nothing, R271. You're playing the same cheap trick played by Dana Beyer, presenting (offensive) opinions and suppositions as established facts. You have no way of knowing that the gay men on this board are opposed to trans or trans issues on the basis of their own experience as young people. But you assert that nelly gay men are opposing in fear because they have some long memory of what might have been done to them back in the day. Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? Do you realize how hypocritical you sound? The very broad bush you seen to protect your trans from you use to paint the gay men here.

But I guess that's OK because you're just entirely right and anybody who thinks or argues differently is just all wrong and entirely bad. Because that's the new standard for reason in your ranks isn't it?

When did I become less than enthused about concerns of trans people? We their leaders piped up. But as said in another post upthread, your rhetoric won't get you anywhere in the real world, so carry on. But don't expect not to get called on your crap here.

[quote]Nice try, but regarding children, the worry so far has only been about hormones and the psychological abuse of convincing kids that their clothing/behaviour is unacceptable for their sex.

Nice try, but here is r43:

[quote][R42] has the blood of effeminate gay boys on his hands.

And r119: [quote]You are evil. If it were up to you and your ilk, we would simply let the moron majority decide whether kids get drugs and surgery, and YOUR "cause" would win

Or r212 and r254, who think it's only a matter of time. Or r139, who thinks there are "a million examples" of children who have transitioned.

[quote]What we're seeing in this thread is the Rise of Anti-gay Bigots.

Show me an example of anti-gay rhetoric in this thread.

[quote] The very broad bush you seen to protect your trans from you use to paint the gay men here.

Help, I'm being tortured!

[quote]Show me an example of anti-gay rhetoric in this thread.

[quote]There are too many older effeminate men who are projecting this hysteria. They think about what their homophobic parents might have done to them if they were gaylings in 2015 and that creates a theoretical anxiety that fuels the idea that the trans are nothing more than right wing homophobes looking to eradicate effeminate boys

I wrote that tortuous sentence... sorry... thinking fast than I typed... I meant to say:

The very broad bush you seem to want to protect your trans from you use to paint the gay men here.

They think that not hating trannies is anti-gay, R277. They also pretend that gay men are supporting them when I see no evidence of that among the gay men I know nor in the gay community. Even here on the DL when they have been spewing propaganda at us for months, most gay men have zero interest in dealing with these cunts and their tranny-hate obsession.

The radfems are fantasists, as if we didn't already know that.

Still doesn't make any sense to me, I wouldn't have complained about simple typos, it's the incoherence that's the issue.

R275:,I have never labeled anyone bad or claim that I have all the answers. It is you who paints with a broad brush as you heap onto me everything you have heard said by my 'side'...

It is you who are hypocritical and sound ridiculous.

There are multiple posts up and down this thread as well as many others connected to this issue where the poster is arguing how effeminate boys are being targeted for conversion to MTF. They even call it the new conversion therapy.

Multiple screechers have declared others not to be 'real gay men' if they don't accept as fact that effeminate boys are the target of this insidious right wing plot.

A few have even specifically referenced their homophobic mummies as evidence of the hysterics being fact.

Of course these are older fems who are projecting their personal fears onto the current situation.

OK, what I meant was the poster quoted talks about too many effeminate gay men and their homophobic parents and a latent fear everybody wanted to cut their dick off back in the day. That's a pretty broad brush with which to paint effeminate gay men. But it's ok for gay men. Broad brushes are not ok when discussing trannies.

[quote]The radfems are fantasists, as if we didn't already know that.

I would love to know why it pains you so much to admit that there are gay men just as opposed to the trannies as lesbian/radfems. Maybe you just hate women? Makes sense why you would side with straight men in drag then.

R275 I've seen none of the references you claim or cite. None.

But are we really opposed to trannies or just the radical idiots and attention seekers who speak for them? All thirty.

You are going to have to try way harder than that, r279. Especially in threads where this kind of stuff keeps appearing:

{quote}I'm so sorry our last attempted lovemaking session didn't work out because the festering wounds on your newly carved out front hole hadn't quite healed yet

This "effeminate" bullshit again. Give it a fucking rest, you homophobic pieces of shit.

r284, may I introduce you to r244?

r289, may I introduce you to r43?

Then meet R74

[quote]I'm so sorry our last attempted lovemaking session didn't work out because the festering wounds on your newly carved out front hole hadn't quite healed yet

If you can't identify sarcasm, R288, I can't help you. It's pretty obvious to most of us. Perhaps you should try going transcranial next?

R93 & R107

Yeah, no evidence of anyone claiming this is a plot against effeminate 'gender non conforming' kids on this thread...

r293, you are so packed with shit it's starting to shoot out your ears. You can't complain about anti-gay rhetoric and then wave off clear and obvious anti-trans comments as "sarcasm." Not without looking like a ridiculous asshole, that is.

You see what you want to see, R295, but that's what I'd expect. That statement was rude and I recall it, but what it was attacking was the trannies fury at being rejected for not being exactly as advertised when it comes to getting naked for sex.

And your argument cuts both ways - which you cannot grasp - you are as bad as anything you're accusing others of. But you think you're right, so the end justifies the means.

R296: that's rich coming from the one who just couldn't find a single post on this thread where an older gender non conforming (effeminate) man referenced his homophobic mother or their own prospects of being transitioned as a youth to justify their hysterical beliefs about this issue

R295 has you all dead to rights, just as you deserve.

It wasn't that I couldn't find it, I just didn't try, R297. I am toying with you. Because you can be toyed with, silly little persyn.

Thanks R299. I needed a good laugh!

Honestly, R299, I can't even recall what I am arguing with this amorphous little creature about. She/he/it/chi/x3.Q has dodged and deflected so many times I can't recall what the original point of contention was. But it is enormous fun to watch her/him/it/chii/x3sq.Q2 spit out her dummy.

You gals are so patriarchal in your attacks. The funny thing is that you can't even see it.

Self-awareness is not your strong suit but then we knew that.

R301: you are also R299 and officially holding a 2 way conversation with yourself.

That speaks volumes about your competence and your mental health.

No, don't get too excited. I meant to type R300 where I typed R299. R300 needed a laugh and got one. At your expense, R303.

Just us layyyydies talkn' bout' our shenis:

Things have officially devolved into gibberish.

I am also R300 and got the needed laugh at the expense of your hollow passive aggressive claims meant to cover your incompetence.

Do you ever get tired of being a step behind?

Not in a hall of mirrors, no. What were we arguing about, anyway? Originally, I mean. Before you invoked the I'm right about everything because I'm pro Trans.

BTW, there should be concern about passive aggressiveness on my part. I aggressively believe you to be a total tool. Whether or not you've got one is a separate matter but I don't want to look.

This is the DL - we need less of your endless blathering and more of this:

There's the hate that lurks behind your proper mask peeking through.

No need to waste any more time with you...

....

You should see the hate lurking behind my improper mask!

I'm here all week. Try the veal.

....

....

R315, I'll give you credit. Your spamming is much more enjoyable than either the Monty Python skit or repeating SJW! SJW! over and over again.

I'm not the SJW spammer. I am the Original Monty Python Troll. You must be so proud knowing that you're so spammy, stupid and annoying to the DL that you belong with the Idiot Libertarian Trolls who endlessly harangue and bother our website. Crazy fucking harpies, the lot of you.

Waitress: Morning!

Man: Well, what've you got?

Waitress: Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam; spam bacon sausage and spam; spam egg spam spam bacon and spam; spam sausage spam spam bacon spam tomato and spam;

Vikings: Spam spam spam spam...

Waitress: ...spam spam spam egg and spam; spam spam spam spam spam spam baked beans spam spam spam...

Vikings: Spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam!

Waitress: ...or Lobster Thermidor a Crevette with a mornay sauce served in a Provencale manner with shallots and aubergines garnished with truffle pate, brandy and with a fried egg on top and spam.

Wife: Have you got anything without spam?

Waitress: Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.

Wife: I don't want ANY spam!

Man: Why can't she have egg bacon spam and sausage?

Wife: THAT'S got spam in it!

Man: Hasn't got as much spam in it as spam egg sausage and spam, has it?

Vikings: Spam spam spam spam... (Crescendo through next few lines...)

Wife: Could you do the egg bacon spam and sausage without the spam then?

Waitress: Urgghh!

Wife: What do you mean 'Urgghh'? I don't like spam!

Vikings: Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!

Waitress: Shut up!

Vikings: Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!

Waitress: Shut up! (Vikings stop) Bloody Vikings! You can't have egg bacon spam and sausage without the spam.

Wife: I don't like spam!

Man: Sshh, dear, don't cause a fuss. I'll have your spam. I love it. I'm having spam spam spam spam spam spam spam beaked beans spam spam spam and spam!

Vikings: Spam spam spam spam. Lovely spam! Wonderful spam!

Waitress: Shut up!! Baked beans are off.

Man: Well could I have her spam instead of the baked beans then?

Waitress: You mean spam spam spam spam spam spam... (but it is too late and the Vikings drown her words)

Vikings: (Singing elaborately...) Spam spam spam spam. Lovely spam! Wonderful spam! Spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam spa-a-a-a-a-am spam. Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Lovely spam! Spam spam spam spam!

So R317 is anti-libertarian yet pro-transgender. Funny how he dislikes one delusional movement based on wishful thinking and denial of reality yet defends another.

R318, don't overwork it, cupcake.

Radfems haven't got a nut loaf to stand on when it comes to denying reality.

But believing you're a woman when you're actually a man isn't denying reality?

The Ts have no argument whatsoever. They can only scream "transphobic" "bigot" hoping we won't notice they have no argument and invent new fake words to also use as slurs "cis" "TERF" and "radfem" is a slur, too. That's it, and getting nasty.

The complete lack of concern for what is going on with young kids is disgusting and shows they are sociopaths. The one(s) on this thread anyway. Ugh.

[quote]They're interested in attacking trannies because they blame them for Michfest not making enough money to stay afloat.

LOL oh my god, you are a laugh riot.

You've been getting crazier and crazier over the months, and I admit, you used to irritate me, but now you make me laugh. Which is good because you're obsessed with changing your IP address to avoid being ignored, so it's tough to avoid you.

Doing that makes you seem even more sane, by the way. You try so fucking hard to present yourself as the voice of truth and reason, but then you make up these crazy stories, and you purposely refuse to answer uncomfortable questions, never provide links, and evade being ignored by people tired of you.

All signs of some serious sanity, right there. People probably tell you that a lot, right? "You're very sane!" they say to you, as you tell strangers in the checkout queue that you have secret insider details about major profit losses at Michfest.

....

thanks god the Advocate is going after gay bigots and not homophobia in things like the Muslim community

How long has this trend been in motion?

The person bumping all of the gay men are insert-horrible-thing here threads should be publicly flogged.

R326 I don't think gay men are horrible. The Advocate seems to think that.