Alcoholics and moderate, controlled drinking

Stop trying to shit-stir op.

It's common and possible but not for everyone.

I can't imagine a life trying to control use of a substance I was addicted to. If you were to try abstinence for a year, you'd be surprised about how enjoyable life can be without alcohol.

Getting fired over out-of-control drinking is about as bad as it gets, OP. What are you waiting for, 20-to-life in Sing Sing?

"Blacked out" is nowhere near "high-functioning". Just so you know.

You're a drunk, bitch.

Get to a meeting.

I think you're leaving out what it was you did that got you fired. Overindulging at an office party is not usually grounds for dismissal.

I'm a high-functioning drunk who does black out on occasion. "Go to a meeting."? Is there any evidence meetings work?

I want to find a way to live with my alcoholism and just get drunk once a week, not black-out drunk, and i was wondering what types of drinkers can achieve this.

I'm not sure what I did, I have no memory of it. A co-worker says security removed me from the premises and put me in a cab, but I was not violent.

R7/op THAT is SHIT-STIRRING!

"Is there any evidence meetings work?"

No. None. Not one person of the millions that have tried AA have EVER been helped.

Go fuck yourself. And good luck with your high-functioning alcoholism.

[quote]I'm not sure what I did, I have no memory of it. A co-worker says security removed me from the premises and put me in a cab, but I was not violent.

Sweetheart, you are the opposite of high-functioning, unless you consider it your function in life to be a fucking mess.

6/10

You're not sure what you did? you have no memory of it?

That doesn't scare the crap out of you?

Maybe next time you'll get behind the wheel and have no memory of it.

Yes, Granny, blacking out does scare me and that's why I asked the question.

My understanding is there is a very low success rate for AA and rehab. Plus, I admit I don't want to quit. Some people seems to be able to control their drinking and I would be willing to work to achieve that goal if it were feasible.

I know two people who drove drunk unintentionally. They both intended to sleep it off in their cars and the next they knew they were driving. One just continued on to his hotel ( the hotel was just off the highway exit and it was the only safe place to pull over. The other one came to just as she was hitting the median and totaling her car. She started in SF and crashed in Sacrememto, it's amazing she made it that far and no one was hurt.

How on Earth could you believe yourself to be a high-functioning drunk when you admit that you drink so much that you black out? You're a black out drunk.

[quote]Yes, Granny, blacking out does scare me and that's why I asked the question.

Granny? Because I'm warning you that your idiocy could cost lives? Call me granny all you want but get help before you cause some real damage.

And you still haven't fessed up to what you did that got you fired.

A few years back I was not in a good place. I blacked out on three separate nights over a two-month period. The last time was very scary (once I came to, that is), and it led me to seek out AA meetings. Some of the stories people shared in there helped me illuminate my own problems and pinpoint why I was drinking to excess. During this time, a period of 3-4 months, I went cold turkey and didn't touch a drop of alcohol. (My dependence was emotional, not physical.) But I could tell that permanent AA was not for me, so I stopped going once I felt I got what I needed.

I now drink socially, and healthfully. I haven't come close to blacking out in over five years, ever since I went to my first meeting.

I know a lot of people will say you should never touch a drop of alcohol ever again and that may be the case, but it wasn't the case for me. It might be the case for you, and it might not. Regardless, I recommend you lay off all alcohol for the foreseeable future while you search yourself for the answers. WHY do you drink to excess? Find the answer to that question if you want to get anywhere. Good luck to you.

r16,epitome of a warm, happy sane AA MEMBER!!! such compassion

I can only imagine all the drinking at Santa Monica parade night!!!!

R18 - Compassion for someone who gets blackout drunk in public and can't remember what they may or may not have done but are sure they weren't violent?

Why would anyone have compassion for them?

[quote]How on Earth could you believe yourself to be a high-functioning drunk when you admit that you drink so much that you black out?

Not to mention, the stupid bitch was FIRED for drunkenness. His definition of "high functioning" apparently amounts to "still alive and able to use the Internet."

r20/ 21 is a mean ex drinker who resents anyone who drinks. No joy whatsoever!

How about try Naltrexone, OP? It works brilliantly to help moderate your drinking for the first few weeks and then usually stops working, so be warned. Also, it will mean that no opiates will work to kill pain should you be in an accident and end up in the ER, so best to carry your script with you in your wallet so anyone trying to help you in that situation will be aware that you are taking an opiate blocker.

BUT - it can give you a window onto to life without getting drunk without you having to start the process of attacking your emotional addiction to alcohol. This is how I did it, but I should add it was how I eventually got into AA. It gave me a chance to get past that initial, overwhelming fear of living without my nightly drinks. And ignore that condemning twats in here. There are sensible, decent people in AA who will completely understand your story and where you are coming from and who will stand by you if you eventually decide you want to give AA a try. Good luck OP - I genuinely wish you the very best.

[quote]I now drink socially, and healthfully. I haven't come close to blacking out in over five years, ever since I went to my first meeting.

Good luck with that. There's nothing "healthy" about problem drinkers resuming drinking. Is there?

Maybe you never had a problem, or maybe your problem is just being patient.....

Can't be done.

[quote][R20]/ 21 is a mean ex drinker who resents anyone who drinks. No joy whatsoever!

R21 is not r20, nor am I an ex-drinker. I'm an enthusiastic but moderate user of alcohol; I also happen to have enough common sense—not that it takes much—to recognize that blacking out on a regular basis and getting shit-canned over your drinking are not compatible with being a "high-functioning" anything.

It CAN be done, but it's akin to doing a high wire act and the overwhelming majority who try will slip off the wire and crash and burn

What happens when falling-down, blacking-out, shit-for-brains boozehounds convince themselves they can drink in moderation:

The only nice, fun, decent and jolly non-drinkers are those who go to AA. People who don't drink and never drank are Entirely Suspect to me. Sketchtastic and To Be Avoided at all costs.

The memory of how horrible my last detox was is motivation enough never to take the chance on another drink -- and the last one was 23 years ago. Once you know what true dependency is, you don't even entertain the notion of doing it again "socially". That ship has sailed.

Is OP the same drunk who "day-drinks" at his (former?) job with a thermos full of vodka?

R28 that was an interesting article. I had know idea Conn had abandoned moderation and was attending AA at the time of her drunk driving/vehicular manslaughter accident. I also didn't know she was attending AA everyday at the time of her suicide.

My dad has been a functional alcoholic for the most of his life. He went to work sober and never got in trouble, was never fired and has never had a DUI. But he drank every afternoon when he got home from work, mostly just beer (which he kept plenty of in the fridge). He was nevet too keen on vodka, but he sometimes made himself the occational drink.

I'd say it's definitely possible OP, but probably not recommendable.

R22 - you're as bad as those people in recovery who think anyone who drinks or gets drunk is in denial about having a drinking problem.

I happen to think nothing takes the "joy" out of a good night of drinking when you have to deal with some asshole getting black out drunk.

For me it's an escalation. I have periods of being totally dry then I ratchet it up. Start 1 drink a day, next by 3 days i'm drinking 3 drinks a day. Then after 1 week i'm day drinking maybe up to 5 drinks a day. After two weeks i'm sneaking booze into work. Then for about 3-6 months I will be getting drunk everyday drinking 8-12 drinks daily about over 75 drinks a week. I end up doing something stupid then stop for about a year then I restart the cycle.

Cycle 1 escalating alcohol consumption until I was drinking 75+ drinks a week ended up drunkenly falling asleep in a meeting at work and snoring I was embarrassed and I stopped drinking for 2 months.

Cycle 2 I hit the booze again and within 2 months was a full blown 75+ drinks a week alchie went on for 8 months and I drunkenly slept with a disgusting ex at a party who I had dumped before. He wanted me and took advantage of my intoxication I was repulsed with myself and stopped drinking for 9 months.

Cycle 3 I hit the booze again full alcoholic had really really fun times at clubs, bars and parties. 18 months of drunkeness. Then I totaled my dream car. It was an older red porshe 911 and I drunkly smashed it I was not hurt but I was heartbroken. Lost a lot of money because of shitty insurance stopped drinking for 9 months.

Cycle 4 start again fun fun fun! For 8 months then I fucked this 320lb disgusting guy at a party. I was grossed out stopped drinking for 3 days started drinking and went on a binge then I ended up in the ICU with alcoholic ketoacidosis. Was scared shitless and stopped drinking for 18 months.

Cycle 5 started again going to wild parties being very social fun fun fun for about a year then I blacked out and woke up with a dented refrigerator door and a broken foot and two broken toes. I'm into karate and the dent was up high so I think I karate kicked it. Stopped drinking for 6 months.

Cycle 6 back drinking and parting for about 9 months. Started feeling weak went to the Dr. Got some tests and the doctor said I have anemia and guessed that my excessive drinking is the cause. Haven't drank in 6 months.

I know that was long winded but without alcohol I wouldn't have had those both the positive and negative experiences. I know I will start drinking again. I love drinking. I heard it said that a person needs to hit rock bottom. I'm not sure if I ever will.

What a bunch of low rent, uneducated sociopathic cunts this site attracts. Fuck you all and go jump of off of a bridge! The whole lot of you. This place has gone to shit concerning compassion.So many losers who've been abandoned IRL and throway kids who are covert narcissists who envy everyone..that's why they have no empathy for anyone, including poor, struggling animals. You fucking losers. Yeah, it's me. I'm gonna check your asses and expose you, be it a pasta draining thread or light summer wool.A fellow human is asking for help but you're too sorry for the raw deal you got with shitty parents and genetics to have compassion .OP will be fine and I admire his/her candor. You fucks have a lifelong personality disorder ingrained in your spreading asses.OP can stop the booze and be fine but you stinking uneducated know it all ghetto losers are irreparably damaged - and you know it!Besides doling out legal advice which I hope an actual member here will pick up the slack.

It's getting late, so I'll just say you probably have Asiatic and or Irish genetics going on Get tested. DNA. some sort of Native American mix in there indigenous. You can't metabolize alcohol. It causes violence in Asian and Americas, indigenous peoples. An admixture of Norse, European or African American can hide this in appearance.Unlike idiots on here who never bothered bettering themselves after high school either by education or worthwhile research on their own, there are some of us who showed up for life, even with your identical problem.Anthropologically, I could go on..asking questions on your phenotype but if you do go to meetings, just view it with the concept of the speaker doing stand up comedy routine. Meetings are filled with secret crackheads (hopeless) and sociopaths. Go, listen, laugh but,keep your distance. Especially the ultra religion bullshit. If you were a diabetic or had cancer, would you go to meetings for a cure? Of course not. And totally ignore the poster mentions Naltrexone. If in an accident, you could bleed to death on the spot. That suggestion and drug, old as the hills plus you'll be so fucking exhausted and sick on it.Listen to me, find a nurse practitioner privately.. Not a psychiatrist.They're in bed with pharmaceutical company and reps and most think they are gods. They're usually crazy, trying to figure themselves especially out..why they went the long haul in med school. Coocoo birds, especially ones from foreign med schools like India. So out of touch with our advanced culture. Like paying hundreds of dollars to a culturally deprived teenager.

Find yourself an American/Canadian NP to write you a script for Campal invented in Germany and success all over Europe since early 90s. Merck lost patent so the generic is produced in India. Very methy, watch for weight loss. Take less than 2 tabs 3Xs a day if you can. Maybe low dosage of Zoloft to keep the seratonin a flow and a sleep pill to counter the methy effects. If you're physically addicted, go to a detox. But if you're Native, you probably can't physically become addicted, like Inuits. Different and bigger livers. Tend to black out and get violent but no physical addiction . That's for another thread. You can pass for WASP but still have this phenotype. Weed is fine. FUCK old fashioned AA.

Shame based, God talk. We the agnostics. Shaddup. There's no shame in having a fire inside of you. The gifts that come with your disorder make you better than most others. Be proud in seeking help. And while in transition, no wine, whiskey or clear liquors. Limit yourself to beers. If you've ever watched Cops, Alaska , you know smugglers of liquors are going away to prison for a long ass tiime.why? Cause smuggling liquors into an Iunit community can risk death to many. You going away for a long time. OP could be Black, Mexican (really Inuits BTW) or blondy blue. Legalizing marijuana is the answer for the Americas. Fuck newly arrived white people!OP fuck these commenter right in the ass. Listen to me. Go get that Campral. Cured so many Nordics and Scandinavians.

My drinking got bad about 5 years ago after a bad breakup. Lots of going out to have 'fun" but also a lot of getting drunk alone at home. After missing work more than a few times because of it, I realized I had to stop.

I didn't drink anything for 2 months. Never craved it. Even now, if someone told me I could never drink again, I'd be okay. I almost never drink/go out during the week, and if I am in a social setting drinking, I make my own drinks if possible. Very light on the alcohol. If I go out, I make sure I drink water, and most importantly, NO WHITE WINE. I'm not sure why, but it FUCKS me up.

The last time I got DRUNK, like don't remember what happened, was after getting drunk on Chardonnay. Never again!

R37 wine fucks with me too - I think it's the sugar. Now vodka & diet tonic no prob. Keeping my drinking to weekends only is much better for me.

'I want to find a way to live with my alcoholism and just get drunk once a week, not black-out drunk, and i was wondering what types of drinkers can achieve this.'

The mythical kind, OP. The kind that live in your booze-addled imagination. Go to therapy and talk about why you need to get drunk.

I don't know if OP is real or a troll, but I won't judge OP because I've been in the same mindset in the past. And some of the responses on here are unhelpful.

I was like OP, did a lot of things, until it finally caught up with me. I blacked out and found myself being arrested for DUI Property Damage.

This can get worse OP...you've already been fired. Do you want to get arrested for doing something stupid too? I never thought it could happen to me but it did. I suggest cutting your losses now.

'And some of the responses on here are unhelpful.'

OP is asking a gay gossip board for assistance with his mental and physical health problems. He will just have to take what he gets.

Chiding drunks about all the negative consequences that might happen if they don't stop drinking is pointless in my experience. They are usually acting out, for deep-seated emotional reasons, and it has nothing to do with reason, so they can't be reasoned out of it.

R42

Well he is here, asking advice...and I'm not chiding, I'm just sharing what happened to me.

If what he says is true, and security removed him from the building, how long before something else bad happens? That's one doozy of a blackout. If he enters a store or bar and won't leave when they tell him too, they won't be so nice. He'll get charged with Trespass after police come.

You know what R35, so far you have been too rich or too smart (probably both) to really hit rock bottom. I mean who drives a Porsche 911?? Certainly not the average citizen. And who keeps their job after falling asleep at a meeting? Point is, through connections and maybe talent, you have (always) been in a position that was very comfortable, and alcohol is one way to make it edgy, fun etc. If you didn't drink you would probably be a multi-millionnaire. I'm guessing you already are a millionnaire. Hey, it takes all sorts. But you're lucky.

For what it's worth, the guy pictured at link was a speed aficionado (actual speed, not drugs - well, maybe drugs too, but he enjoyed fast driving) and after a motorcycle accident was scared shitless etc and mentioned in itws he would never again etc. Flash-forward to 2009 and he killed himself in a 2am crash in a tunnel around Paris.

I don't believe in hitting bottom...because there is always another bottom waiting. You just have to make a decision to cut your losses and step off the elevator at some point.

[quote]I want to find a way to live with my alcoholism and just get drunk once a week, not black-out drunk, and i was wondering what types of drinkers can achieve this.

I doubt there is any way to drink until you're drunk without crossing the line into being blackout drunk. Part of the problem is tolerance, the tricky part of the equation. There's also the inherent lack of judgment that's part of being drunk.

R45, "hitting bottom" is a highly subjective term. What some people I've known considered their bottom would have been a normal night of drinking for me. If that was crossing their line in the sand, so be it. I've always respected people who have that much common sense.

Contrary to what I was taught in AA, I've known a few drinkers who were able to consume small amounts of alcohol years later without any obvious repercussions. I like being sober enough that I've never seriously considered drinking again, but I can't say I never will.

Hi OP - I no longer drink as it took control of my life physically, mentally & emotionally. Different people define themselves as addicts for different reasons. My thoughts on your post are:

"Is this possible or is abstention the only way?" Depends - if you are waking up & the first thought is when can I have a drink or you shake/dry heave untill you have a drink. Then I'd say absetention is for you. If you just seriously over do it very occaisionally - blackout - then you may be able to be a "controlled" drinker with a lot of hard work & self control.

Last week, I was fired because I got too drunk at an office party and blacked out. Losing your job through your behaviour when drunk is a sign that you need to have a long, honest look at yourself.

But I can't imagine a happy life without alcohol. Is that scarey? If yes you have a problem that needs to be dealt with. If its just because you can't imagine "fun" without alcohol then you need to redefine fun.

Can high-functioning alcoholics learn to control their drinking or is this wishful, deluded thinking? Alcoholic Drew Barrymore drinks socially now. High-functioning alcoholic is an oxymoron. If a person is an addict then by definition they cannot be high-functioning.

Take 6 months off drinking, attend some AA, see an addiction counsellor for at least 6 sessions - see what works for you. Go and do new things that do not revolve around alcohol, ask your friends not to buy you drinks when out with them & explain that you are working on yourself & why.

Good luck with your journey.

OP, it makes absolutely no sense that a company condones drinking by having an office party where liquor is served and then punishes an employee for abusing the privilege.

I worked for a law firm who had company cocktail parties until I pointed out the potential for liability and they decided maybe they were a bad idea.

My dad was an actual high-functioning alcoholic, a guy who spent a lot of energy making sure he could work and drive after he had been drinking. It helped that he was alcoholic in the 1970s and earlier, when laws were more lax.

In about 1977 he decided to stop drinking. Mom wanted him to quit cold turkey but he couldn't, so he sneaked beer into the garage. Apparently he had one a day -- mom found his stash and secretly counted it. He probably went to a bar for a quick one now and again. Eventually he stopped drinking, and after about 15 years sober started occasionally having a beer or wine cooler with no ill effects.

But there were two things that made this possible: his incredible self discipline, which also allowed him to just quit smoking at the drop of a hat after decades of being hooked, and what allowed him to lose about 60 pounds without a single bit of effort.

The second thing he did was NEVER go out socially again. I mean never. I'd had babysitters while my parents went out with friends and had parties, and also bowled, winning championships. All of a sudden in about 1978, it stopped. My parents never had another friend. Dad couldn't function socially unless he was drunk.

His emotions suffered, obviously. He had been an asshole when drunk but a nice guy sober. Afterward, he was angry 100% of the time, whiny, petulant, passive-aggressive, resentful, just a terror to be around. His work improved but he couldn't handle the stress of being a teacher anymore.

OP, I know you don't want to give up alcohol, and I understand. Physically, yes, you can drop down to just occasional drinking. Emotionally, no, I don't think you can do it unless you have a therapist or doctor or other professional helping you.

[quote]OP, it makes absolutely no sense that a company condones drinking by having an office party where liquor is served and then punishes an employee for abusing the privilege.

Bullshit. Lots of companies have functions where the is alcohol. They expect people can practice basic self control themselves and drink a reasonable amount.

I mean seriously, getting black out drunk at a WORK FUNCTION? I love alcohol. But this isn't a friends Halloween house party or something, it is a WORK FUNCTION.

And no one can answer this except for you OP. Can you control your drinking? See if you are able to stop after a couple of drinks. See if you are able to go some days without drinking. Only you can see whether or not self-control is possible for you with alcohol of if you need total absention.

I got blackout drunk and got a DUI once. It was a terrible mistake. However I was able to successfully changed the way I drink in the years since then.

Yes, R32. It was too late for her to save herself. AA can work wonders, but not true supernatural miracles. The sad fact is that some people are too far gone to be saved from themselves.

OP, don't forget to consider that. Assuming you live long enough, excessive drinking will cause noticeable brain damage. It will contribute substantially to serious, clinical depression. It will destroy your innards. So, it isn't just a matter of "controlling" your drinking well enough to hold a job. Thank about what your situation will be like in 5 years if you continue drinking.

Only weaklings don't drink before breakfast!

Hitting bottom is an AA concept that not everyone agrees with. I don't think it's helpful.

I too love alcohol. But I do not like feeling drunk. I don't like the way the next day feels either. My dad was an alcoholic, so I won't go in to all of that emotional baggage. One drink is enough.

But I am a scientist. And the thing no one here has mentioned is the toxic effects of alcohol on your body. I guess because everyone already knows it. But, It is going to kill you. It causes cancer, cirrhosis, kidney disease, dementia.... All the things you already know.

The thing I am convinced of is that excessive drinking is really all about escaping anxiety. Anxiety is the part of the human brain that has evolved to toxicity. We all suffer from it to a certain degree; why it becomes debilitating we don't yet know. Drinking, use of other drugs, excessive exercise, thrill-seeking (Porsches?), anorexia, insane religious fervor? It's all about wanting control, so you can rein in the anxiety.

I think you should consider a therapist and low dose diazepams. Low dose. Even if that means you only get a couple of days worth at a time. And work thru the anxiety triggers. Being able to recognize it is what gives you control.

And stop the alcohol. It'll kill you but not before it makes you suffer.

Yes, he will R43 and there is not a thing anyone can do about that - alcoholics create their own disasters, and it is they that decide when they have had enough and want to dry out. Nothing anyone here says will make a bit of difference to OP, but continue to issue him with warnings if it makes you feel better.

'ended up drunkenly falling asleep in a meeting at work and snoring I was embarrassed'

Not as embarrassed as your colleagues were for you.

Scolding and judgmentalism are also not effective R55 and R56.

The OP and others are asking, "what can I do to be able to have the good part of alcohol (releasing pain, anxiety, shame) without the myriad downsides? Well obviously more alcohol is the default answer. And 12-step programs are effective for only 10% of the people who try them.

Interventions are surprisingly way more effective. 50% long term effectiveness. But best chance? Antabuse, therapy, anxiolytics.

In case this hasn't been said already, OP, your drunken display and black out in front of co-workers and your management at an office party was the last straw. They already knew you have a true problem with alcohol. You were already walking the tightrope with them. Your behavior wasn't a surprise for them or for you.

There's no telling what you said or did. I wouldn't be surprised if this issue wasn't already addressed with you, encouraging you to get help, which you chose to ignore.

Blacking out and being fired from your workplace/job is one of the biggest wake-up calls you could receive that you have a problem you can't control. In a way, your employer did you a favor. You also presented yourself as a huge liability for your employer.

If you care about your career and your life in general, stop with the excuses and get real about your addiction to alcohol. Otherwise, you will continue to spiral. You're already in the midst of a spiral.

Do yourself a huge favor. Depending on your means after being fired, get into a real rehab, get into therapy, go to AA. Make a true commitment to accepting the fact you can't handle alcohol. Whatever is within your means. Do something about it -now. Otherwise, your future doesn't look good in terms of employment, financial, relationships/friendships and health standpoints. It's already snowballing.

Good luck to you. You'll be a better person overall and rid yourself of a lot of stress and problems.

For those that don't like AA, if someone is at the end of the line, financially and with their insurance possibilities, AA is at least an option. If finances and insurance are iffy or non-existent start checking for other community services too. They are out there.

It's normal to go through a rough patch, and go through a periodof drinking too much and over-indulging to intoxication or blackout. Not healthy, but normal. Most kids do that during college. What isn't normal is being my re concerned about being able to continue drinking versus thinking about the underlying reasons or what you may hVe done. I got blackout drunk at a work function early in my career when I was a little over 22. 12 years later, I rarely drink at work functions and even if I do, I have a strict I drink cutoff. Not because I don't drink socially but because these are my bosses and colleagues, and this isn't the place to tie one on.

Many High functioning alcoholics don't get drunk to the point of getting kicked out. Many of them can hold their liquor quite well and what is alarming is seeing the signs of intoxication interwoven in their daily lives.

Tl;dr - Yes, you can drink still socially. Take this experience and learn from it. Think about what yiu need to change so it doesn't happen again.

Well if your going to AA stay away from Perry Street Workshop. The space is too cramped and the people there just a bit too precious.

Just as they say in AA, (once you're done bashing shit you know nothing about), drink till you're done drinking, hit bottom, then quit and rebuild your life.

AA works for 100% of the people who make a conscious decision not to drink today, and for 0% of the people who say, "screw it, I'm gonna drink". AA doesn't prevent anyone from getting drunk, it gives you a way to build a decent life that makes deciding to drink again less attractive. That's all it promises. It never pretends to prevent anyone from drinking so the "success statistics" are pretty meaningless.

That Conn woman was obsessed with drinking and feeling she should be able to drink in moderation. She was wrong it seems.

R61 I've heard that people who quit on their have a higher success rate than AA.

[quote]I'm not sure what I did, I have no memory of it. A co-worker says security removed me from the premises and put me in a cab, but I was not violent.

Liar. HR fucking told you what you did in your termination meeting.

R36 shouldn't post while he's drunk like that.

From The Atlantic:

[quote]“Peer reviewed studies peg the success rate of AA somewhere between five and 10 percent,” writes Dodes. “About one of every 15 people who enter these programs is able to become and stay sober.”

RE R44's post. Jocelyn Quivrin was a lovely French actor with a tight ass and giant dick.

All that cock, gone.

If that doesn't illustrate the tragedy of addiction, I don't know what does!!

(He's on the far right in this photo.)

Drunks are the most tedious people in the world.

In fact the only thing worse than a drunk is a drunk Republican!

if u factor in all the relapses, AA has a negative 0 success rate

I've been sober longer than many of you have been alive. I did it through AA. I go to a meeting three or four times a month now. I never have a desire to drink, thankfully.

So weird to see this thread right now. I was trying to not drink and made it 13 days, then last night I drank with a friend before we went to a show that I've been looking forward to for months and payed $150 combined in tickets and got completely BOMBED and don't remember the show at all. Like at all. Then I kind of embarrassed myself after the show when we got to meet some of the cast.

I always try and tell myself that I can drink just a little bit and it will be okay but I can count on one hand the number of times that I didn't over drink and embarrass myself or ruin an occasion. It's incredibly hard to let go because those hours or minutes where I am an acceptable level of drunk are so preferable to being sober.

Jocelyn Quivrin was a real good-looking boy.

R61 that Conn woman abandoned the moderate approach and went to AA. She did the most damage to herself and others while she was in AA. AA didn't work any better for her.

That Conn woman also provided a valuable lesson -- in staying humble. I would never EVER go on a talk show and say I have it all figured out (or, worse, do so for profit ala writing a book), even though I did it my own way ultimately -- and not with AA though they helped a lot up front. All those newly sober teen idols on talk shows of old would talk of leaving the studio and going straight to getting hammered; it just puts extra halo pressure on and it's stupid to talk about anyway. Just do it and shut up (like everything else).

I've lived with a drunk. Nope, not going to call him an alcoholic. He was just a drunk and nothing pretty about it. He never blacked out as he had built up a high tolerance. He's sober now and has been for 15 years. He thought he was witty, the life of the party and everyone loved him and was his friend. Wrong. He wasn't unique (something most drunks think), people laughed at him behind his back, pitied him and generally thought he was a know-it-all. Few people ever knew the real person behind the alcohol and most never had the patience or cared enough to try.

OP, that's your future. Good luck.

R70, honey you sound like you are ready to talk things out. If you have that kind of money for show tickets you have money for therapy.

R70 it sounds like you need to go with abstinence. There is a tipping point with alcohol. Right before you get to this point you're having fun, but you know you don't need to drink more and should probably eat something. Once you reach that point you think you'll have more fun if you drink even more and then you black out and/or embarrass yourself. It varies from person to person how much it takes to get to this point ( how much you eat can also have an effect. It sounds like you get there after one drink.

In regards to the OP's original line of questioning: what happens very quickly when it's the right time is that it no longer is about "You can't have a drink." It literally is "You don't want a drink." Which takes care of the rest. Don't ask me how but, again, it's been 23 years for me now and I once was as bad as anyone posting on here (I'm the guy who stared at the clock at 5 a.m. on another thread, the low point of your life thread, waiting for the clock to hit 6 a.m. so I could go get morning beer, wasn't done with last night's drunk yet. Never want to go back to that place).

OP maybe check out Allen Carr's The Easy Way to Control Alcohol. It worked for me. His book about quitting smoking made him famous. Many celebrities successfully quit smoking and cite his book. HE knows what he's talking about and it helped me. I don't pine for alcohol land it's not a daily struggle. I'm free. Good luck.

If OP has to ask, then they probably aren't a good candidate for "controlled" drinking. Most people quit or cut down drinking on their own. If you have to ask, you probably haven't tried or done well.

I'm a food person, not an alcohol person and I do think genetics are part of it. A friend of mine I love a lot has a real problem with it, can't even function without wine and psuedoephedrine in her body. She's 52 and her health and mind are beginning that long slide. I've tried to help but it's up to the individual. That has led to a lot of heartache and anger on my part - so many broken promises, mistakes, lies.

Please find help wherever you can get it.

r74, bitter AA member

Made the mistake of going to the local gay AA meeting tonight. What a mistake. Everyone trying to be clever, and just saying what they think their sponsor, or other people want to hear. Complete waste of time and gas money.

r82, that is every AA meeting!!

R83 this one is especially insipid...same people for years and years, same inside jokes. Although I noticed most of the lesbians are going from that meeting. Maybe they got sick of it. I'm really thinking of dumping AA completely and just using SMART Recovery from now on.

r84, try just living your life sober with your own inner strength and spirituality . U r already there!!!

I'm a hard core disbeliever, but I was able to get sober through AA. I heard at a meeting, "Take what you want and leave the rest here" and I took it to heart. I met someone in AA who had been sober for years who agreed. He told me he thought AA would be a totally different program if it could have been founded today without Bill Wilson's churchianity bullshit infecting the message (not sure that's true because every program I've ever looked at had a founder's ego as its driving force). I learned to ignore at least half of what I heard and nearly all of Wilson's writing. There's wisdom in AA, but you have to look for it and not passively wait for it to find you and you can't get caught up in the bullshit you hear there. Ignore the personalities because they aren't going to keep you sober. I went to AA in NYC after I'd been sober for years, and I hated meetings there for their dogma. Texas AA has the same kind of dogma, but other places don't teach it that way.

There's no way to put together accurate stats on AA, something that must drive researchers to drink. I'm not that unusual. I went to AA when I was very young but I wasn't ready to quit drinking. I went back to AA four more times when I was desperate but not quite ready to quit. Then I finally went back and got sober. A researcher would chalk that up as five AA failures because they can't track that. It's impossible to accurately chart addiction and recovery.

For me it was mostly about having an epiphany that I didn't want to go on living the way I had been and doing whatever was needed to change it. I've been sober many years now. I haven't been around AA people or attended meetings for much of that time, but I'm still learning and have found wisdom in some unlikely places. Every day I look for some kind of nugget that makes life worth living and I always find it.

The best thing about AA is the support system. I became adept at finding people who had the kind of sobriety I wanted and picking their brains for what they could teach me. I learned to overlook the AA showboaters and find the quiet ones who had put it together. AA had a cofounder about whom we rarely hear, a doctor from Akron named Bob Smith. He had what I wanted and although he'd been dead for years, I found people who knew him and picked their brains.

The truth is that if you don't want to quit drinking, nothing will work. When you're ready, it's likely nearly anything will work. Deep down, most alcoholics want to keep drinking. If you're one of them, quit beating yourself up about it and go on drinking. Find ways to do that without bringing harm to yourself and others. If you want to quit drinking, put as much energy into it as you did drinking.

'U r already there!!!'

Oh, DEAR.

I've decided only to go to the AA club meetings that is 10 minutes from where I live. It isn't worth the gas money to drive any further to one, since so many of them turn out to be boring-ass meetings. I certainly won't be going back to that LGBT meeting ever again.

The LGBT meetings were discouraging, I must admit, nice messages and then that stupid cat and mouse game going on afterwards, everybody refusing to speak to anyone else they didn't already know, the old "Fear masquerading as Attitude" thing Roseanne once coined. It sucked worse than a fucking bar. So I found a Stag straight guys meeting, was welcomed in like an old friend and thought to myself, "Why is the gay world so fucked up?" Try some of the other ones, even some small ones off the beaten path, R88. It shouldn't be this way but sometimes the Straight ones actually are more friendly, welcoming without being fake about it. Which, let's face it, is needed if you are trying to get sober.

r89, visit a lesbian meeting sometime

Wrong R81. AA helped him get and stay sober. If you want to quit you can find a program to help, it doesn't have to be AA. I was never much of a drinker, could take it or leave it, and watching him play the fool was difficult. BTW, we're still together.

Christ, more of this "alcoholics are human beings too" bullshit. Reading through this drivel had me laughing at times. I've never known an alcoholic who lost their job because of their drinking and took it as some sort of a wake up call. The drinkers I've known always blame their employer and never the booze. Nor have I ever known an alcoholic who could drink in moderation. They may start out thinking that way, but as usual, the liquor becomes their life, again. And again, and again, and again, and again.

The OP is not prepared to consider that alcohol is their enemy and still regards it as their friend.

[quote] I can't imagine a happy life without alcohol.

That admission alone tells you why you'll never be anything but a drunkard unless you change your mindset.

Try it and find out for yourself, OP.

To the OP and anyone else interested here's a link to a "controlled drinking" program you can do online. I know a few people who've tried it and found it helpful.

I repeat, Allen Carr's "The Easy Way to Control Drinking", $8 on Kindle, had me craving - free after finishing the book. I have not desired a drink since. Spoiler: there is no way to "control" alcohol, but the book assists in permanently removing the desire for another drink ever again. You don't ha veto live your days battling an addiction.

With the holidays coming up, if I am tempted (doubt it) by offers of wine or beer, I can just scroll the major points of the book on my phone, as I have Kindle on it.

But hey keep ignoring that fact, and the hundreds of positive reviews of the book. Carry on.

R95 must have a royalty claim to that manual

After 8 years sober, I accidentally had a drink! I didn't know that a "hard" lemonade & cherry drink meant it had alcohol. What a crappy thing to do to a fruity drink. I was at my sisters, and she always has a variety of funky fruity drinks in the fridge, but they are usually non-alcoholic. I had some pepperoni pizza and was parched. So now I know what "hard" means. It's been another two sober years since, so it wasn't the end of the world.

Oh, I quit using AA. It works!

I went to a meeting and didn't like it. Hi my name is------ and i'm an alcoholic. Then they vomit up their whole life stories and tell their big ol sob stories. Many times they ruined peoples lives. Then they get all phony and sanctimonious about how they stopped drinking. One spoiled rich frau paralyzed a man in a drunk driving accident she was seriously injured too. Mostly she focused on her miraculous survival. One person was forced there by court order. Another guy was there because his wife was going to dump him if he didn't go. An old drunk Polish priest was at the meeting and asked when do I graduate this course? The leader of the group said this is forever. There was such a look of bewilderment and disappointment on his face.

I figured this must be what a born again christian meeting is like. Bunch of people who used to be total assholes some were plain sociopaths. They confess their sins. Then they become all phony and sanctimonious.

Classic

The problem was me was that yacking about it, counting days, getting coins and then slipping but being forgiven for it... none of that worked for me and my disposition. I had to do exactly the opposite of "One day at a time", I had to say "This is it forever." And that's the one that stuck. I also quit using alcohol free beer which was totally against the program but worked for me -- because I still had the bottle and the tiniest of booze in each so a bit of comfort to my mind and body but, really, I'd have to drink 50 of them to get a buzz. So switched to those and then gradually lost interest in them eventually too. Whatever works.

But I do like that AA remains unmanipulated and uncommercialized, like that there aren't "I'm with the Program!" t-shirts and ball caps or whatever. I think it is still well-intentioned and it certainly made it impossible to go back to drinking without extreme guilt. Which is no small thing.

[quote][R61] that Conn woman abandoned the moderate approach and went to AA. She did the most damage to herself and others while she was in AA. AA didn't work any better for her.

Obviously she was in trouble with booze, but come ON! She started a whole freaking organization devoted to moderate drinking for drunks. Clearly she was never able to decide to stay stopped as it were. She taught her own brain to constantly defend her decisions to go back to drinking, and never hit bottom hard enough to not pick up.

Like I said, staying sober in or out of AA is a daily choice. She chose not to.

Malibu rum is like a methadone for some

"I'm a high-functioning drunk who does black out on occasion."

This would make a great bumper sticker.

LOL R103, no one would want to be driving behind that person.

Meeting are so boring...listening to people talk about how they were scared to do their fifth step. What is the point of this?

It takes a long time to understand some parts of the experience, R105, but much of AA has to be lived. You can't just be told and "voila" you're sober.

There is an AA saying, something like "many of us preferred an easier, softer route". That's a lie. The truth is that ALL of us preferred an easier softer route. If you know of one that works for you, AA suggests you take it. Perhaps the AA saying ought to be "most of us tried every reasonable and tons of unreasonable alternatives before trying AA". I guess that is "the point".

Most alcoholics I know all say that they origonally wanted what OP wants. They want to keep much of the alcoholic experience without whatever it is they don't like, like, I want to drink daily and not lose my job; or I want to get drunk without hangovers, etc. the fact is that it is a package deal, and you cannot turn the clock back and drink like a lady ever again.

They read that boring "How It Works" at EVERY meeting in this area. In full.

We have a middle aged straight woman with food issues who's coming to our Gay AA group. We've kind of taken her under our wing as a loving mascot.

[quote] We have a middle aged straight woman with food issues who's coming to our Gay AA group

Then it's not a Gay AA group, is it.

You fucking cocksucker, R17, die in a goddamn grease fire. Throw your loved ones on the fire with you. That is HOW MUCH I HATE your phrase, "drink ....healthfully." There's no such fucking thing; there is NOTHING "healthful" about drinking; not a goddamn thing. I hope you have a relative or good friend who gets injured or worse by a drunk driver, you fucking piece of shit.

R35? Do this board and the WORLD a goddamn favor and jump off a building, play in traffice, OD, whatever. You don't deserve to live, you fucking moron. Are you AWARE one can have a personality without drinking??!!

R110: the health benefits of red wine are well established.

Don't be taking someone else's inventory, R110

I love you, r113.

R109 well, Nan, the straight fifty-ish woman who comes to our meetings, brings homemade hummus and dipping bread. And when we share our stories of barebacking during blackouts, she never bats an eyelid.

It's called "self control" OP.

Look into it.

1) Don't Drink alone.

2) When drinking in social situations, limit yourself to 3 drinks maximum (pick your poison).

3) Have a water, or some other non-alchoholic drink between your drinks.

4) The point is to not get too "buzzed" as to lose control of yourself.

Yes it works.

r117, it does indeed!!!

Naltrexone. Naltrexone. Naltrexone. Naltrexone.

Try it. Seriously. It's the gold standard among psychiatrists who specialize in addiction medicine, and it worked for me.

Look OP got blackout drunk at a work event. Clearly he has problems will not be solved by finding a way to get drink nd not get blackout drunk. I don't feel sorry for him. I don't have any compassion for him. He has a problem he is refusing to acknowledge. Stop enabling him.

{quote} he OP and others are asking, "what can I do to be able to have the good part of alcohol (releasing pain, anxiety, shame) without the myriad downsides?

If you are using alcohol to reduce pain, anxiety and shame - well that's call dysfunctional and needs to stop.

Well, Nan always says that water finds it's own level.

And Nan also taught our group that when you point a finger you have three pointing back at you.

Nan was also known to sip grain alcohol from a measuring cup

Every gay AA group should be so lucky to have a straight woman of a certain age like Nan as it's moral compass.

Where is Nan? Is this NYC?

Sorry R125, you don't get to know the location. We don't need you or anyone else here polluting the serenity of our special meeting.

It's not even just red wine R110/R112.

There have been lots of studies about how alcohol in moderation has many health benefits. There is really nothing wrong with having a drink after work.

Some people cannot have even one drink because it lowers their inhibitions to having more. I had a lover like that, he couldn't stop himself, he had to be stopped by others from drinking himself unconscious after just one drink.

It sounds like you don't have this limitation, but a work situation is highly stressful no matter what and you must make a rule never to drink at a work function or when you are going to be working, which is difficult if you are sort of "on call" as many people are nowadays. It will be doubly hard if you get a new job notwithstanding this work history, since you will likely be hired by other people with alcohol problems.

With regard to "life not worth living" without alcohol. Unless you are 85 and terminally ill, this is a ridiculous statement and you should ask yourself whether you are living for yourself, or some yeast molecules have hijacked your brain. This kind of thinking is more commonly seen with smokers and overeasters, which suggests you may have a more serious addiction problem than you think. However you live, it should be YOUR CHOICE, not the drug's. You may like how you are when you have a buzz. But that is a long way from "life not worth living."

Since Drew Barrymore is an addict to something-not necessarily booze, she's playing with fire by drinking alcohol and thinking that she can moderate it, especially with how it runs in her family.

I go on 3 day benders all the time - Scotch, chain - smoking, little to eat. The Porn stars can barely keep up with me and I also use Heroin.

OP, did ya nail Ginny in billing in the Xerox room? Did Roz see you?

Atta girl, OP. A little nip now and then never hurt nobody.

OP: The dream of every alcoholic is to drink like a normal person. By your own admission, you are not normal. Blacking out at an office party and being escorted out by security is not normal.

I'm not thrilled to be an alcoholic and never drink. You are in deep denial. I suggest psychotherapy and meetings. Stay away from the nut jobs in AA. Listen to what is helpful and leave the rest.

OP, did they let you drive home?

R133 what's AA like? Or do you mean the people who are hardcore into AA/NA who believe that if you stop going to meetings that you will relapse on booze or your drug(s) of choice and die?

I'm in AA and have been for a long time, and I am not a "nutjob". Try not drinking doing meth, coke and weed for a few months, especially over the holidays, then come tell us ALL about your adventures!

Occasional drinking is going to have to work for me, because my life is too boring if I can't get high occasionally. Alcohol alone isn't that much fun, and pot alone tends to make me nervous. Combined they're heaven. I just can't do it everyday anymore, it's slow suicide, and very fattening.

R36 I read your silly rant. People of all races/genetic backgrounds, and from all regions of the world can become alcoholics.

AA is where losers count their winnings.

I know someone who had three DWIs went through rehab twice , spent time in prison and still drinks. I've read the riot act to this fucker so hopefully they have gotten the message. Though I think this piece of shit can't stop himself.

Does he have service commitment at meetings R140?

AA does not work for everyone.

I know people who love it but they are big into networking and socializing. But I know other people who go to AA meetings and don't take it or being sober seriously and they go out drinking with other people after meetings, or they don't drink but they use other drugs like smoking pot daily, or pretty much anything they can find or get prescribed and believe that they're actually "sober" because they do not drink.

For me, abstention is the only way. 1 drink is the same thing as 12 drinks. 12 drinks *sounds* disgusting to me as I sit here right now, but if I had 1 drink, there's no doubt in my mind I would keep going until I was ready to pass out.

If people can moderate, great. I cannot.

It takes me 3 hours to start to feel the effects of drinking so I usually end up drinking for 8 hours even if I tell myself I’ll only drink one bottle of wine.

[quote]Alcoholic Drew Barrymore drinks socially now.

ALL alcoholics who go back to drinking say that, lol. You're taking their word for it after years of not being able to control their drinking/coke use "moderation" washed over them!

Life-long alkie Larry Hagman got a liver transplant and continued claiming he still had "a glass of wine with dinner" as if his cirrhosis were somehow unrelated!

R144 Sounds like you've built up such a tolerance that drinking isn't even enjoyable anymore.

[quote][R16],epitome of a warm, happy sane AA MEMBER!!! such compassion

Every sad drunk prefers you to sign off on their bullshit. I guess when your kid gets killed by a drunken driver you'll encourage that guy to practice more "moderation" and just drink on weekends....

R146 I stopped for 7 years and it was still the 3 hour mark to feel anything. I’ve always been that way since the very first time. I indulge once or twice a month, but sometimes I go 3 or 4 months without any at all. But when I do I keep at it for hours even if I tell myself I won’t. It’s like a switch gets flipped.

Are A.A. meetings less well attended now that sitting in a room with other people can be deadly?

[quote]Can high-functioning alcoholics learn to control their drinking

Apparently not.

[quote] Can high-functioning alcoholics learn to control their drinking

This a confusing question. If you can “control your drinking”, then that might be described as a “high functioning alcoholic”. However, you can label yourself anything you like, including “high functioning”, but that label alone, doesn't magically make your drinking “controlled”.

[quote] R13: My understanding is there is a very low success rate for AA and rehab. Plus, I admit I don't want to quit.

R13, everything has a low success rate for those who “don't want to quit.” Under these circumstances, your only chance for success is to move to Saudi Arabia.

As for AA, its success rate is hard to determine because there aren’t a lot of studies. It works for some, not for others. Also, beware of poorly designed studies. For example, anyone who can quit on their own, or moderate on their own, does so without ever attending AA. Some get mental help therapy, some get help from some prescription. But almost nobody attends AA unless they’ve tried other methods and failed at all of them. Therefore, AA gets the hardest cases, so even a terribly low success rate doesn’t mean that AA is useless. It helps millions.

I would say that for textbook case alcoholics you really can’t. However, I think in recent decades a lot of people get labeled alcoholics are not. You have these articles that say you drink over an X number of drinks per week you have a “problem.” But that’s not how it works.

Not all heavy drinkers are alcoholics by a long shot. Most of those people probably can control their drinking.