The myth of attractive people

Then you aren't as attractive as you think you are op.

Tell me this is a drunk post.

He's certainly as stupid as he thinks he is so give him some credit for self-awareness.

Things do come easier for attractive people but it doesn't help you find true love.

But you get a lot more people to pick from R4. Come on.

I was very beautiful when I was young. The problem was, I didn't know what to do with it and how to make the most of it when I had it. Now I get a lot of, "you're still beautiful for your age."

It's not the same.

Outside the realms of entertainment and politics, being handsome really doesn't help you unless your smart as well, which is rare.

Not as rare as you thnk R7.

Looks get you attention, accomplishment gets you respect.

Real accomplishment gets you genuine and lasting self-esteem, but good looks get you laid.

I am well educated, a published academic, and a certified smarty-pants. I am invisible when I walk into a gay bar.

On the other hand, my parents were Hollywood beautiful when they were young. They mourn the loss of beauty that comes with age. Every fucking day.

In the end, I prefer what I got, but sometimes I wish....

OP is the Program Troll, of course.

Consider very attractive by whom, asshole? You don't have any friends.

POOR YOU.

Depending on your profession I think what really gets you to the top in life is quite often ruthlessness and a good heap of self-love and arrogance. (Though if you're a neuroscientist you obviously need smarts!)

If you're young, male and good looking, and work in an environment that is mostly ladies of a certain age, you'll find your stock rises exponentially.

That's the only environment where it's much of an advantage.

Untrue OP. Being good-looking opens doors and helps in ways big (job interviews, co-op boards, attracting a partner) and small (free drinks, smiling help at DMV, crashing backstage parties.) The downside is: you can't shut it off (I got hit on by a funeral director--while organizing the service) and...it fades.

Who considers you 'very attractive' John? not that guy from your Program, that's for sure.

Ok Progry/OP, since you are buttfuck-crazy and never listen to anything, it's pretty pointless to reply. However,mi am feeling magnanimous today so here it goes.

You are not very attractive, you are not even just attractive. Whatever the source of this particular delusion of yours, be VERY aware that it is only a part of your many mental problems and in no way whatsoever a reflection of your level of attractiveness.

How do I know this, you may ask, when I haven't seen a picture of you? Because you REPEL people, online and offline. And this, even you know to be true.

Why am I telling you this? Just to be an asshole? No, to get you to understand that you need a fuckload of therapy instead of wasting away trying to recruit anonymous online forum users into your Little Mary Fucking Sunshine world of make-believe.

Now can you please fuck off and let us be?

Am I the only one who prefers to be the pretty one? It's true I don't want to be with Bigfoot but a bank account is better than a pretty face.

R10

In my admittedly limited experience with lookers (because I am not one), I bet you're a hell of a lot more fun in bed than the guys you think are getting noticed. And the bonus is your being able to have an actual conversation after fucking.

It may be a generalization, but I found that the better looking the guy, the more boring the sex. So many stargazers.

Please come have a drink with me.

I think the OP knows that he isn't attractive but he desperately wants to believe that looks don't matter and was hoping others would help convince him that this delusional belief is true. Most of the people who push these beauty vs brains or brains vs brawn myths ( in which alphas and beautiful people are automatically dumb and the unattractive are brilliant) are just looking for ways to cope with being unattractive betas.

I am happy when my mother comes in to brush mh hair. She tells me of digging holes in the basement where my father lives with the dryer. When is it illegal to borrow an eyelash curler? I have 900. Some still with eyelids attached. My mother and my roomate's cousin who lives under our dryer both say I am very attractive. Where is Des Moines? Are there hot dudes there? I might. When my mother collects my hair for her Canada pillow she tells me how I am like beautiful, but, very handsome in Tom Hardy ways. When is England going to reclaim America? All of the high schools will spell color with a u. I will. Why can't I see the blue through the wall? Are eyes always made the same. I am a cat. Once I ate a hotdog. My mother said it was the work of devils. When I pass my NCLEXTROLL test, I can use the dryer. My mother took away all my buttons. Will hot dudes see that I have no buttons and know I am a beautiful eyelid man? I ate the sparrow who looked at my hair. How can I erase fingernail marks from wood. I would. Tom Hardy can cook his own food. I think my roomate took my Canada spoon. I am. Are American nurses having eyelids? 85% of beautiful, attractive sparrow die in the dryer. My father ran away. Why are there cows? I can.

Oh delicious R21, I wish you were mine.

If you want to fuck beautiful people, just go to sweden, plenty of beautiful people there.

Looks over talent worked out pretty well for me.

SHUT YER YAP OP!

I honestly think being good looking is only a REAL advantage if you have parents who teach u what to do with it. Usually this would be the mother.

There are many advantages to being beautiful, but unfortunately...many are too stupid to know how to actively capitalize on it. A cunning, smart mom to guide you as a child is super helpful...

I know this sounds ridiculous, but it's true.

Beautiful people have it both ways. You come by things easier, but you constantly have to deal with people either leching over you or stumbling over themselves and looking away for fear of gazing. I was never what you'd call beautiful, more cute but I was charming and still have very good manners. In my late teens and early twenties I fairly shone. Now that I'm into late thirties, I don't miss it at all. It's exhausting being invited to every party. I have my own home and life, cherish my privacy and relish not being the person who turns heads when he walks in the room.

I think being conventionally attractive is far more lucrative for women. Sure gorgeous men have an easier time of it than your average joe, but the advantages the hot guy has aren't things that a less attractive guy would have to break his back to get. On the other hand, beautiful women get pretty much everything her equally attractive male counterparts get, and then more some. These women become models, have famous athletes and movie stars alike falling over themselves to have a chance with her, get further in any industry they're in (whether they're sleeping their way to the top or not), become the trophy wives/gfs of rich men the world-over, get more sympathy from everyone and get away with almost everything they do, etc.

R23 I'm not so much into Middle Eastern looking guys.

You need to post a pic of yourself, OP or else you're not being honest.

Actually smart people are the worst when it comes to discriminating based on looks. They rarely like to be around other smart people.

I don't think "respect" is the best word for the way people react to physically beautiful people. It's a very powerful reaction, but very different from the respect people have for people who are exceptionally intelligent or talented.

R29 is an ignorant cunt.

Nobody respects attractive people. Some are intimidated by them, others salivate to ravage them. There will be the opportunistic coat tail riders, the sycophants, and those green with envy plotting against them, but NOBODY respects them.

What a stupid thing you've said R34.

You obviously don't understand what "respect" means and have unrealistic expectations of being worshipped.

O.P. is not as think as you drunk he is.

You don't recognize all the benefits you've received. Those who are smart do understand their advantage as its been gained by hard work.

Whaddaya know? The OP really IS John from Canada (aka the Program Troll). I tried "ignore'dar on the OP and it turned out he was also the Op of John's infamous "My mom was just drying clothes at 1 am" thread.

No way R38! I'm such a fan of his work!

Except there is a mountain of research contradicting you. Your anecdotal unverified evidence is irrelevant.

What r15 said about not being able to turn it off. I shared an office with a handsome guy who was serious about his work, but he could never get much done because all the office gals were constantly coming in to chatter at him. Once, he wanted to so some on-line banking during lunch, but a whole bunch of the girls came in to badger him about going to lunch with them and would not leave until he said yes.

After a while, I felt sorry for him.

Was he at least straight, R41?

He ended up with an Asian girl, r42

I was a male fashion model when I was younger so I have a little experience with this. The thing that was always strangest to me that isn't talked about a lot is there's a certain breed of men (generally middle-aged white guy) who I'd meet who felt threatened or intimidated by me, and would start acting very competitive and nasty towards to me in settings they didn't call for it (parties, social occasions, etc.). That was really the only big downside of it, and it echoes the previous poster's comment that it sucks you can't turn it off sometimes, especially when you just want to get to know people and have a nice social experience. To further piggyback on what R15 said, I was once applying for a job, I worked my ass off preparing for the interview, and I got a call back from the HR director saying I didn't get the position, but he wanted to know if I wanted to grab a drink sometime. That fucking sucked.

I was lucky though to be a tall man who has able to hold his own, though. I would always feel so bad for the small, thin, beautiful women I knew who would be hit on by aggressive, drunk men twice their size. That must've been very scary.

I used to go for guys who weren't that physically attractive because I thought it gave me some power over them and that they wouldn't leave me. I was very lonely for a long time. But I found that the less attractive guys treated me worse than the good-looking ones.

R4 on point!

R4 is full of shit. She's rationalizing why the guys she liked didn't like her.

r44 I used to date less attractive people so I wouldn't have to deal with my own insecurities but dealing with someone else's insecurities is far worse.

Why can't people love me for my mind, instead of my body?

[quote]Untrue OP. Being good-looking opens doors and helps in ways big (job interviews, co-op boards, attracting a partner) and small (free drinks, smiling help at DMV, crashing backstage parties.) The downside is: you can't shut it off (I got hit on by a funeral director--while organizing the service) and...it fades.

yeah, it must really suck to be attractive.

R47: unless you dated Bruce Vilanch, you are full of shit about dating anyone less attractive

R44, why did that fucking suck? You would have gotten a rejection hot or not if you flunked the interview; the only difference is that you could have gotten a date out of it because you are hot. Or did you think you were entitled to the job just because you worked hard at it - well, a lot of people work hard, so...

Hot people seem to have a skewed understanding of how rejection works.

When she was younger my sister was dazzling. Yes, people fawned over her, but that can be as annoying as it is flattering or helpful. And nice kind men usually avoided asking her out because they were intimidated. The cocky guys who approached her were usually arrogant douche tools. So being attractive might seem wonderful, but be careful what you wish for.

Was the HR person hot at least?

The OP is probably thinking of a study done about 10 years ago.

They took a group of children in their Junior High School year and rated them all based on looks only, on a scale of one to seven. One being the ugliest and seven being the most attractive.

They followed them for 30 years and found this.

The most successful in life, (defined as money, self rated happiness, stability in career and relationships and a few other criteria) were those who were rated "seven."

This did indeed show that being the most attractive did benefit them enormously in their lives.

However the surprising thing was the next most successful in life were those rated as "one," followed by those rated as "two."

The "Least" successful group in life, were those designated at "six."

Basically the study found that looks do matter, but if you rely on looks then you better darn well make sure that your looks are at the top of the ladder, because if you are attractive, but not at the top of the ladder, you can't rely on them at all.

"Accomplishments" get you jealousy, envy, and a lot of ridiculous ego competition, not respect. Ready cash is the only thing that gets you respect.

We had an Olympic medalist on our staff at one job, and you wouldn't believe how people would fight to compete with him on ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. It was so annoying. It was just phenomenal how energized vicious and stupid people would get around him. I swear half the people on staff would have snuck under his desk to tie his shoelaces together daily if they thought they could get away with it. And he had no arrogance at all.

The frauen are all over this thread. They ruin everything.

I understand, OP. I am quite a looker myself.

Very interesting article in the NY Times...

That's a very realistic way to approach the subject r58. At first thought you'd probably believe that it's too cruel to be that honest with a child but in reality it's probably for the best. I think it could go a long way toward self-acceptance and allow them to focus on and nurture other attributes/talents/abilities.

Look fades alas

Anytime an attractive person is around people's insecurities really come out. Either they start acting all weird and intimidated OR they start acting nasty and hateful for no reason.

You should see the way ugly women act whenever a pretty girl is in the room. It's like watching a pack of hyenas go after a lamb.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I find very slim guys attractive whereas a chub chaser.....

From my experience, being attractive has helped me immensely in my career, getting job promotions, getting discounts on vehicles, vacations, great seats on planes, clothing discounts, art, jewelry, education, cuts in line... Relationships have always come easy for me. I'm don't pursue, I'm pursued and I find now, being older, I'm 62, that is still the case and if anything it's greatly increased, the generosity and kindness of men and women. Younger men at my gym for example offer up their machines, they ask me to dinner, they want to get to know me. It's very nice. I love having a selection of guys of all ages who very interested in me. But, more than relationships it's the general excitement when I enter a room. The interest and curiousity in me, the staring. I like it. I'm not going to lie. Life has been good. I look forward to another 40 years.

R63 = I Love My Life!

R63 looks like Bruce Vilanch on a bender

I'm told I'm a good looking guy, although I'm not some instagram millenial guy with zero percent body fat. In general, what I've found is that people typically idealize you right off the bat based on looks - and then they either discover the real you and are disappointed that you're not PERFECT -- or they go off the handle and completely demonize/dismiss you if you're not interested. It's exhausting. I've also struggled in the gay AA world for the same reason - people troll me quickly (13th stepping) but they often disappoint when it comes to being real, supportive friends or people. It's exhausting. Frankly, I'd rather go unnoticed and be known for my achievements than for attracting people. Because people project a lot of weird SHIT on you when you're generally considered attractive.

R66, getting no attention and having to troll for dick unsuccessfully on craigslist and you'll want the attractiveness back in a hurry. It's exhausting. When you're invisible no one cares to project anything onto you. And if you're ugly they treat you like a leper even if you have achievements.

I know exactly what you mean, r66. It's not just the pressure you feel to be the perfect person ( always happy, smiling, excessively nice etc...) but to always look perfect as well. You feel this pressure to always put in the necessary effort to look good or else you'll dissapoint everyone. This was especially true when I was a teenager through my early 20s. When people stare at you and notice you it can make you feel terribly self-conscious , leading you to believe that you have to look perfect or someone will notice that hair out of place or the shirt that doesn't look quite right with those pants or that you're looking a little chubby around the middle. You begin to fear being judged.

It's just horrifying to be goodlooking.

This thread is suggesting that the ultimate life is to be a 7.5 with a high IQ, advanced education, and success in your profession

R68 is not as fawned over as she thinks she is.

Chubby chasers make me sick. It's a reflection of a complex I don't want to understand.

R71 you're sounding like those bitter fuggos whose claws come out when an attractive person is around. S/he didn't say anything about being incessantly fawned over that's just your insecurity speaking. If a poster can discuss the downsides of being plain or unattractive then posters should also be allowed to talk about some of the downsides of being attractive.

"When people stare at you and notice you it can make you feel terribly self-conscious , leading you to believe that you have to look perfect or someone will notice that hair out of place or the shirt that doesn't look quite right with those pants or that you're looking a little chubby around the middle. You begin to fear being judged. "

But don't ugly or middling people spend their entire lives feeling "judged", and found wanting?

R68's post actually makes me think of celebrities and their quests for perfection. Eyes are constantly on them and dissecting every inch of them in order discover some any sign of an imperfection so that we can shame them over it in order to validate ourselves. It's interesting how good looks and the attention that comes with it can actually create insecurities. We tend to think of beautiful people as super confident but that may not always be the case. I find the whole thing pretty interesting and it could explain many of the plastic surgery disasters in Hollywood.

No one thinks of celebrities as confident. People think of them as having an arrogance that is used to blanket a number insecurities and neuroses.

No one also said that there isn't a "downside" to being attractive, but r71 needs to take her head out of her ass and talk to to a psychiatrist. The truth is closer to no one giving a shit about her or what she does. At least r66 is believable.

I clearly said beautiful people not celebrities ( unless you think all beautiful people are celebrities) . It's interesting how defensive and angry people get when discussing topics like this one. It's not exactly far-fetched to believe that people actually notice good looking people and that fact really shouldn't be upsetting. Life isn't fair. Beautiful people get noticed, such is life.

Also we really have to stop the " no one thinks..." there are billions of people on the planet and you can only speak for yourself.

Dude just admit that the post stirred up your insecurities and envy r76 and move on. Otherwise you wouldn't even care because s/he really didn't say anything offensive. That's also why you want to believe that celebrities are all neurotic and arrogant in order to assuage your feelings of envy and insecurity. Classic ugly people move.

Lookism and beauty privilege are actual things but nobody cares enough about hotties to stare at them or even glance in their direction? Get real.

If people stare at you a lot whether it's because you're hot or look like an ogre in can probably make you insecure or uncomfortable. None of that sounds "unbelievable." Get over it and accept the cards you were dealt. Jeez.

I'm very attractive and have excelled in the three different fields in which I work. (I like to keep busy and have a lot of creative energy.) So I don't really know what the OP is talking about, except the obvious fact that people who have nothing to offer but looks will be known only for their looks. Duh. For the rest of us good-looking people, appearance does make it easy to get into the door or the bed, but pretending like performance (in either) doesn't matter is silly.

And I know I'm lucky. It's just foolish not to use what we're lucky enough to be given.

Oh for God's sake, R79, NEVER waste your time trying to make people admit that they're jealous, insecure, or wrong in any way! Sure, point out that they're wrong, and maybe they'll even realize it (later if at all), but trying to argue them into admitting fault is a waste of your energy and annoys the fuck out of everyone nearby.

Please consider my advice, especially in personal relationships.

You know what you're right R81. I needed to hear ( or read) that because sometimes I forget that the arguing probably won't accomplish much of anything.

A disadvantage of attractive people is that they can be less reflective. I have an attractive and intelligent friend whose approach to relationships is to find someone who can perceive him in the "correct" way. It never occurred to him, until I pointed it out, that he didn't appear to have an opinion on what intrinsic characteristics he desired or admired in a potential partner. He didn't conceive of relationships where he was not at the focal point. It was all about how his partner would treat him.

Granted, he has a lot of options at any point in time, so it's not as if he has the time to stop and think.

I have a few friends who are insanely attractive and I've always considered myself average.

Out of those friends, one is incredibly intelligent and while he won't complain about being hot he tends to gravitate towards people who don't praise him for his looks constantly and treat him like he's a normal person. Apparently the ones who like him for his looks don't stick around. I like him because he's a nice guy. I remember not even knowing why he was talking to me when I first met him. His kindness keeps him in my contact list.

OP, you are nowhere near attractive. Your mother and aunts telling you doesn't count. You don't even write like you would be attractive. Like most of your posts/threads, it reads as a desperate cry for attention as you and your obvious obsessions near total irrelevancy.

The masses will always cater physically beautiful people. Queers are more blatant about it than breeders, but it's the one thing they all have in common.

R79 and r81 are idiotic simpletons.

R77/r78 You mentioned Hollywood in your last sentence so it's not a big leap mentioning celebrities, but also stop being so literal-minded and shut up.

Maybe it is because I can admit that I don't have much of a personality but while a pretty face can open doors a great personality can open everything. Having that great personality is a greater blessing than good looks and it doesn't fade with age.

Let's set aside the silliness that attractive men have a problem, and admit that they have an advantage over unattractive men of similar skills.

The most interesting thing for me, which has been mentioned on the thread, is how differently attractive men and women are perceived and treated, either by men or women. I posted with minimal b.s. earlier how, as a man, I've been treated well. I've noticed that good-looking men usually are treated well by other men, straight men or gay men, although the latter often show their motives. Straight men, I've observed, are welcoming and even act a little turned on by attractive men, in an unassuming way. It's not usually competitive.

But, as has been pointed out here, women often seem to be hostile, untrusting, back-biting and negatively judgmental about attractive, or more-attractive women, they encounter.

Men seem to act uplifted by being with good-looking men. Women seem to feel diminished.

I guess we blame society's biases and unfairness towards women for their derangements, the same way we blame everyone but the members of other groups for what they do. But I always like the way men act towards each other, when there's a handsome or masculine guy around. It's cute.

Don't hate me, because I'm beautiful!

[quote] If a poster can discuss the downsides of being plain or unattractive then posters should also be allowed to talk about some of the downsides of being attractive

Yeah, it's so PAINFUL to be handsome.

🙄🙄🙄🙄

[quote]I'm very attractive and have excelled in the three different fields in which I work. (I like to keep busy and have a lot of creative energy.) So I don't really know what the OP is talking about, except the obvious fact that people who have nothing to offer but looks will be known only for their looks. Duh. For the rest of us good-looking people, appearance does make it easy to get into the door or the bed, but pretending like performance (in either) doesn't matter is silly.

Isn't it so lovely to be you?

I agree with R70

Some people think I'm beautiful, I tell them that I agree!

People always focus on what they don't have and take for granted the privileges they've always known.

OP = Not enough attention from mommy and daddy growing up. Boo hoo. Get a blog.

Don't hate me because I'm beautiful. Hate me because I'm incredibly self-absorbed and entitled!

R70 I disagree. You want to be a 10/10 but dumb as a box of rocks. Ignorance is bliss.

Attractiveness is in the eye of the beholder, but ugliness is universal. Everybody has a different idea of what makes a person hot, but everybody can usually agree on what makes a person ugly.

So true. We brainiacs do get the best treatment!

Fuck you for bumping a thread from 2015 and yet not adding anything of value.

FF the bumper at r99 and FF him every time he does this shit. Don't flag the thread's OP, FF the bumper. If enough people do this, Muriel can't ignore it.

I've been considered cute and, in the right light/angle, I can be very attractive, but the first time I was ever truly aware of it was when I lost weight once and, all of a sudden, people really did treat me differently. I'd go on dates with guys who, a year ago, would have been out of my league completely. That's the only time I've really felt like my looks had any power and it was intoxicating. I had my fun and then settled down with a great guy.

I was never fat in the traditional sense. In DL terms, I'd be considered "fit fat", but it was insane what a 20/30 lb loss could do.

I doubt op is as attractive as he thinks.

[quote] I am considered very attractive

Oh, I'm afraid I'll be the judge of that.

Link to photo please.

[Quote] I am considered very attractive

It's when you're no longer attractive that you'll know.

Please, we privilege physical beauty over everything else, except wealth.

Go to LA. You'll see pretty people parking cars and pumping gas.

R109 Homeless with abs?

R109, is that you, Auntie Dionne?

Safeway won't cash my check.

OP = Naomi Wolf

bump

[quote] I am considered very attractive

Oh, I'll be the judge of that. Photo, please.

I have an extremely attractive male friend, while I'm average looking, cute to the right people. We've been friends since we were very little. What I find interesting is how many friends/fuckbuds he goes through. He'll be super close to some guy - last one was a model based in LA - and then they will do a tiny thing to piss him off and they are GONE! No second chances. But it doesn't bother him because there's always another smoking hot guy waiting in the wings.

We have been friends for so long that I'm not in the disposable category, but I wonder what it would be like to have a steady stream of beautiful people happy to just be around you.

Aw, Davida is having a widdle hissy-hissy fit and bumping all the old 2015 posts that are still open.

Crazy bitch probably keeps track of old threads with a spreadsheet with links and shit. Insane. Get some meds and go take a warm bath or something, god damn.

R117 I’m not Davida and I’ve explained multiple times now how I keep track. Your trolling is so lazy.

Bump

....

Why does this thread keep getting bumped?

Then you ain't doing it right, OP. I have a couple of friends who won the genetic lottery--both sexes--and people trip over each other to help them. They also complain about NOT being taken seriously. Well, the dumb ones do. The smart ones understand and realize nobody wants to hear it.

R122 exactly.

[quote] the special treatment we get is nowhere near as great or as profound as someone with get intellectual accomplishment gets

As it shouldn't be. Even people who are gifted intellectually have to work to do something with their intellects. Pretty people just have to keep breathing. Given the efforts intelligent people must make in order to become known as intelligent, pretty people still are given more for doing less or for nothing at all, at least until they age.

The good part about this rewards-for-nothing system is that smart, industrious people accumulate appreciation as they age, whereas pretty people are treated well all their lives until they age and then they tend to go into a crisis as time reveals to them what life always has been like for plain-looking people. Woe, woe! What a world! How do people live in such a cruel place in which strangers do not go out of their ways to be courteous and helpful and to make life easier?

[quote] the special treatment we get is nowhere near as great or as profound as someone with get intellectual accomplishment gets

Revisiting this statement...how twisted is the logic of this statement, founded on the assumption that looking a certain way deserves special treatment?

[quote] They also complain about NOT being taken seriously. Well, the dumb ones do. The smart ones understand and realize nobody wants to hear it.

My theory is that a lot of pretty people are dumb because we gain wisdom through challenging experiences. Empathy comes from suffering through difficult experiences and being able to relate to others. Intelligence is strengthened by being presented with challenges and having to solve them with little or no assistance. When everyone around you is eager to do things for you, you become dependent and your abilities to analyze and to solve problems are limited to "how can I use my charm to get someone to do X for me?" This works very well for a lot of people for a long time, but inevitably, everyone ends up alone sometimes and has to depend on themself to solve certain problems, abd inevitably, everyone ages.

Pretty women with financial means do have the option to stay 'pretty' through glamour and surgical mutilations that look grotesque but are still interpreted as pretty for some reason, and glamorous older women may still end up considered beautiful among their own age group if they puff up and iron out the wrinkles and dress well.

Imagine the traction it would have gotten if OP had compared "attractive people" to "people with money" R121

R121 A lot of threads were bumped last night. One imagines it is the work of a single poster, one whose name need not be invoked.

The respect that a brainiac gets is more meaningful and the fawning an attractive person gets.

I guarantee OP is not a woman

VAIN THREAD!! I'm not yet attractive, but I'm early thirties and got into much better shape during covid. Now people talk to me more and I hate it. You wouldn't talk to fat but you will talk to fit, I get it, but I'm not a huge fan of random encounters period. Assuming I continue it'll be interesting to see how far people go before I age out of any vestiges of youth.

r130 has stated her boundaries!!

R130 I feel the same way, honestly. I was a cute kid who got a lot of attention for being adorable.

Then I was a "husky," acne-covered adolescent and the shift to being ignored (or made fun of) was isolating and like going through a drug withdrawal. It was very hard.

Then I starved myself before graduating from high school and began working out a lot in college. I went from being 5'11" and 130 pounds to being all lean muscle. I got a lot more attention from gay guys on (dating myself) AOL chatrooms, Manhunt and other online venues plus in person at bars, etc. Too much attention. It became annoying and I felt like a jerk often because I did not want that much attention as an extreme introvert and I ignored most of it. I also got groped at bars and clubs by random men and that really unnerved me and made me feel unsafe. It was pretty terrible.

However, that said, I was treated far better in both overt and subtle ways in my working life. People complimented me often and were kinder and more patient to me. I also got overtly ogled and a few people in my office said 'flirty' things that were tantamount to sexual harassment and that made me feel uncomfortable at work, where I've always just done my best at my job.

I got very ill in my 30s with Lyme disease and it led to being bedbound from fatigue for the better part of that decade of my life. That obviously forced me to stop working out and to stop putting so much effort into my appearance, and everything changed socially. I became fully invisible to most gay men, and at work many people treated me more like a machine to get work done than with any kind of friendly rapport. I did go through a challenging 'attention withdrawal' for several years. Then I realized that while we're programmed to want attention for our appearances, I MUCH prefer to be visible only to people who authentically want to know me as a person.

I'm not a model by any means, but being in male model-esque shape throughout my 20s was enough to garner a lot of unwanted attention and after the initial alarm of losing that attention, I remembered I really never enjoyed it. I am a creative person by nature and what I want to be appreciated for are the things I create, not my flesh.

Unless they are mentally ill you almost never seen a person who had the basics to be very attractive, not doing the most to accent their beautiful features. Which tells me that beautiful people love looking beautiful and know the advantages it gives them.

Of course they do, R133. I used to work with a young woman who was stunning without makeup and she put little effort into her appearance. (I don't know what her private grooming rituals were but she dressed frumpily and wore no makeup and just brushed, uncolored hair.) She was VERY smart, to the point two idiot male executives I worked with separately told me she was "dangerous."

Anyway, I noticed on just a few occasions when she stood to meet important people who could present her with opportunities, she knew exactly how to turn it on. She wore makeup and heels—she was 5'11" barefoot—and looked like a top model, and she put a Veronica Lake-type wave in her hair. Same person, but she towered over everyone and stood out. She did not like the attentions of men on a day to day basis (She and I discussed this a few times—she really did not like men hitting on her or being awkward around her and she really did want to be appreciated for her competence and intelligence.), but when she was in important company, she was (of course) smart enough to turn herself into a beacon for attention.

Life has worked out well for her. She married a literal rocket scientist who is also very attractive and he got her into a PhD program (in a field she had never studied) at a prominent university where he had a teaching gig.

Attractive people attract attention. Most become verbal targets, if not stalking targets.... But many first introductions — especially professional intros — include comments on physical appeal. Which are just insult-confrontations. That the attractive person is dumb.

[quote]I guarantee OP is not a woman

This post is 7 years old, forget not being a woman, OP is probably not even ALIVE anymore.

One thing I have noticed about beautiful people, though, that is entirely beyond their control, is that they usually have a paradoxical kind of extreme self-consciousness and fear of not being *the prettiest* combined with arrogant entitlement with little awareness that being treated well simply for being is not most people's experience.

They are easily offended when not given priority or special treatment, and yet they are burdened by their appearances because they get so much unwanted attention and they have some sense of the currency of their appearances and their egos put them in a constant state of anxiety about not being the top of the heap and fear of falling from everyone's favor. They also mostly seem to believe that their beauty is their value and although they may overcompansate with outward arrogance, they worry that all they really have to offer is their looks and once those fade, they will be revealed to be frauds.

I find it really interesting. It's not a way I would want to live. I am really enjoying becoming more of a schlump as I slide toward my mid-40s. It's much easier psychologically to be seen as "just some guy" and assessed by personality and work output.

I'm attractive because I make the people I speak to feel like the most important person in the world.

How do you do that, r138?

R139, it takes a bit of doing and not everyone is so open initially.

I genuinely ask how people are, listen at length. Listen and repeat what they're saying. I try not to interrupt and be prepared to be interrupted.

It's never in just one conversation and helps build emotional intimacy over time. We all need to feel listened to and believed (even though it may be an untruth). I do this because it's what I want and need and realise it's a fundamental need for everyone.

I also have a good memory and memorisation. If someone tells me something important to them, I repeat it in my mind and, if appropriate, bring it up next time to learn more.

There's probably more, but no one has every asked.

It's something I apply without saying I'm doing it.

I also operate a 'no invisible people' principle in worn and in certain social situations.

These are things I've really delved into and done for myself in the last couple of years.

1) *ever 2)*work

Aging is hell fore beautiful people.

Is there a link to the famous John of Canada thread?

Can someone who is off-the-charts good looking explain to me what they got just by simply being hot? I’m curious.

Just last night I was remembering that friend told me when he was being chosen for jury duty, he was asked what his occupation was. "Stay at home model", was his reply.

[quote]unless your smart as well, which is rare.

Apparently so.

While I agree with OP's assertion generally, in my experience, anecdotally of course, the "benefits" of being more attractive aren't what I would call legitimate benefits. I was/am attractive enough where guys would buy me drinks at bars and I'd get invited to some cool party on a yacht or on someone's fancy property. But none of those benefits really improve my life in any meaningful way. I think far too many people see empirically attractive people "getting stuff" or experiencing exclusive events and think that these things somehow improve these people's circumstances. I'm all for someone paying for me to go on a European vacation, buying me some fancy luxury good or spending a weekend in someone's seaside mansion. But none of those things actually improves my life in any real way. It might give some bragging rights, but those don't pay the bills and pay off debt. Obviously, there are some people who might get to marry into wealth due to their beauty, and access to that cash could actually improve one's situation, but simply getting stuff or getting invited to exclusive parties isn't what I'd call a meaningful privilege or benefit.

I remember a thread a few years back on this life coach guy. I remember one video of his posted where he was bragging about all the benefits he received due to his attractiveness although IMO he wasn't nearly as attractive as he thought. He went on and on about getting more sex, being part of the cool crowd and getting invited to parties. This was a man in his 40s relaying benefits of his beauty that only a teenage girl would find enticing. For me, none of those things would be a benefit. Unless someone's gonna pay off my school loans or buy me a remote cottage where I don't have to interact with people, I don't consider it a true benefit.

I agree with OP. My older sister was exceptionally beautiful. I was not. She was the pretty thin child. I was the smart chubby child.

Now that we are elders, I much prefer me. I’ve had to rely upon brains, wit, a great sense of humour .. and have done fine. I had the strength to quit drinking .

My sister mourns her beautiful young self. She often sends me young pics of herself . Sad . Despite paying a shitload for rehab, she is a high functioning alcoholic and has gained a lot if weight.

OP is a two who thinks she's a ten.

Beauty is a form of Genius--is higher, indeed, than Genius, as it needs no explanation. It is one of the great facts of the world, like sunlight, or springtime, or the reflection in the dark waters of that silver shell we call the moon. It cannot be questioned. It has divine right of sovereignty. It makes princes of those who have it.

I think the only advantage that attractive men have is that they don't have to work very hard to convince other people to sleep with them. Professionally, looks might get you in the room, but you'd better have substance or you'll be out again very soon. In terms of friendships, people bond with other people who are empathetic, funny, witty, good listeners. Friends never choose other friends on the basis of looks. I think many men (and probably women too) are insecure about their looks, even when they have been told repeatedly that they are attractive. Sometimes, it's because the kind of look they have is not the kind of look they would have chosen for themselves.

In hindsight, I recognize that I was conventionally attractive without being drop-dead gorgeous when I was young. Tall, slim, very nice eyes, good bone structure. I should have been pleased and grateful. But my nose is modified ski-slope and I had to wear glasses starting in 5th grade. I would have preferred a Roman nose and to have perfect eyesight. Contact lenses helped in my twenties, but ultimately I returned to wearing glasses except on special occasions in my 30s. (Comfort over beauty).

I can remember meeting a very attractive guy in NYC when I was about 22, and he was about the same. He said, "you and are just cute. On the positive side, we'll never have trouble getting guys because we're not so gorgeous that we'll intimidate or scare people off". I found that to be true in my sexual career, and yet part of me wanted to be gorgeous, with massive arms and chest. I wanted something that would help get the 5% of men who rejected my advances. I also rarely approached men I thought were breathtakingly beautiful, because I was certain that they would only go with people who looked like them. I was often surprised to see them leave the bar with someone not nearly so good-looking. I later discovered that self-confidence is much more valuable than perfect features in making oneself attractive to others. Now I can philosophize about it all because I'm old as fuck....lol

My friends in my 20s repeated this about about me: "you're always the 2nd best looking guy at the party and the 2nd best worker in the office and the 2nd smartest guy in the class. Always. I think it was quite true. I went to top schools and had pushy prestigious jobs and interesting creative jobs and I was wined and dined and invited everywhere around the world and people trusted me and like me and wanted to fuck me. I was the guy they could get when they couldn't get the best guy.

[quote] I think the only advantage that attractive men have is that they don't have to work very hard to convince other people to sleep with them. Professionally, looks might get you in the room, but you'd better have substance or you'll be out again very soon.

LOL.

That's really funny.

I used to work with an organization affiliated with a past White House administration. The guy appointed to it was about 25. He looked like a male model with a romance novel cover model flouncy haircut and tailored suits. I swear his arrogance made the air thicker. His father had been a congressman and he grew up in a swanky suburb and went to an expensive but not particularly selective private university. He had no qualifications at all and no substance at all—yet he was appointed by the White House to lead an effort, and he was put into a room with college presidents and spoke down to them. It was a surreal thing to witness, really, the White House sending this Disney prince goon to decree orders to a room of accomplished people. And so he did, and they followed even though everyone in the room was snickering and rolling their eyes afterward. It was his family connections and wealth that got him into that position, but if he had looked like Eric Trump, he never would have been put into that position. There's a reason Trump chose Slender Man Jared to be his right-hand man and not his own trollboys. People may resent attractive people but they do their bidding nevertheless.

R152 Jesus, your "friends" sound like assholes.

It's great to be attractive, as long as your attractiveness fits in with your gender. What I mean is, I'm attractive in a pretty, effeminate way, but as a man, it's been a hindrance more than a help. I've been mocked for it and, when younger, it made me a target for older men with a fetish for my type. I was the victim of stalking for a year in my late teens, that only ended when I moved out of the area. If I'd been born with attractive, macho features, none of that would have happened.

So does he, R154. The post reads like an extended 'humblebrag' (even if it is likely true to some extent).

"I was the second hottest person everywhere I went in life, and because of my face and body, everyone not only wanted to fuck me and gave me gifts, they inherently trusted me and advanced me professionally, and I took it all knowing it was due to my appearance."

That is exactly how attractive people operate. They know the advantages they get, they seek out those advantages, they manipulate and take advantage of misplaced trust and other values assigned to them, and they coast through life feeling good about themselves. It's just a different, predatory way of living life than most of us experience. But at least he's honest about it.

[quote]What I mean is, I'm attractive in a pretty, effeminate way

r155, are you Nicolas Fairford?

Look, the uncomfortable truth is that every life comes with its advantages and disadvantages. Our life's challenge is to make the best of what we get. Looking at others and complaining how easy they have it is rather pointless, because most of the time we don't know what challenges they face (because our society pushes us to "fake it 'til we make it").

I've known a guy who was a total mess, because he looked like an angel as a kid, but he got sexually abused by a relative. He was always told how pretty he was as a kid and when he dealt with some of his trauma he decided that it was his prettiness that made him a target in the first place (his family pretty much abandoned him, because they were uncomfortable and ashamed about the sordid molestation business going on without them knowing, apparently) and he did the best he could to get rid of his curse of being pretty and got tattoos and piercings all over his body, got fat, drunk and took all sorts of drugs, and got the worst skin possible. He no longer wanted to be a target. Then, in his mid-30s, his unhealthy lifestyle choices caught up with him, and he had all sorts of health problems. He died when he was in his early 40s.

R155 That interpretation is also dependent on time/era. At various times throughout modern history, pretty, thin men with fine features and even small penises have been regarded as ideal, with buxom, breeding-ready women regarded as ideal. Those ideals can be deen depicted in the oldest art on record.

There's also the factor of time passing, which hasn't been addressed. Most beautiful people have a beautiful era of their personal lifetime and are not gorgeous from beginning to end. Hence, the ugly ducking story. Many beautiful-looking children grow up to be plain and many very funny-looking children grow up to be distinctively beautiful. Many beautiful young people age into ragged older people, and some pretty young women turn into crones while some funny-looking pretty young men age in their 40s, 50s or even 60s into surprisingly handsome older men. The problem is that in the here and now, we tend to think of beauty as only belonging to youth, even when we instinctively respond to older beauty as well and can be struck by a very handsome older woman or man now and then, often people whose features were not outstanding in their youths.

R157 I love Nicky Fairface! Both his appearance and his demeanor/presentation. He does seem shallow and daft but something about him seems puppylike, and we love puppies even when they have little going on upstairs.

[quote]I think being conventionally attractive is far more lucrative for women.

I'll tell you this for free - it's a lot more lucrative for women than being a brainiac is. In pleasure OR in business.

It's only more lucrative for women because of hetero pressure to marry and the ability to get pregnant and lock in child support.

We see how things are going with rich and famous gay men like Anderson Cooper and Andy Cohen. They use their rented boytoys, buy their babies and don't worry about committing to anyone or sharing their money.

Perhaps, R162, but even excluding children, being a "brainiac" woman with high credentials in the area needed for the job is not the guarantee of success in the workplace it would be for a man. That is regardless of the gender of the boss.

Likewise, men who say they look for intelligence in a woman they're aiming to date, pretty much always mean "somewhat to slightly less intelligent" than themselves. Whereas they're more than happy to date a woman more attractive and/or younger than themselves.

So what I really meant was, being really smart and well versed tends to open doors for men, but it equally often creates hurdles for women even today.

Some study found that straight men who are told a woman scored higher than them on an intelligence test in turn find that woman less physically attractive.

It's part of the toxic masculinity premise that men look down on everybody else, including women for whatever reason. A woman who can best them in any way emasculates them. A man's ego, suffering from toxic masculinity, can't cope with that.

Men parade their pretty girlfriends and wives around like they are trophies (hence, the term trophy wife), because having someone pretty at their side raises their profile amongst their peers (successful AND a pretty wife? He has it all! Total alpha!).

You type shallow and entitled, OP.

R13-That sounds like Elon Musk.

Is OP posting from 2015?

My father was considered good looking when young. Got girls to lay when he was young. I got hit with the ugly stick hard. Was never called handsome but was called ugly twice. One time it was from a fuck buddy who I had been seeing for years! He was good looking enough not to need me so go figure. Anyway my father mourned the loss of his good looks when he got old and his falling out hair when he was getting chemo because of cancer. Of course all of this happened to me when I was 18 and he couldn't give a shit about what I was suffering as a very young man. So I had no feeling whatsoever when he was suffering terribly at the end of his life.

R153- An expensive but not particularly selective private university- sounds like NYU

R162- Do you think that the Albino and Cohen are both hiring prostitutes even though they are both DADDIES now?

R153 it was nepotism not looks that got him in the room. Big difference.

R169- I don't consider someone who's 18 years old to be a man, yet.

r173 is the anti-Bryan Singer

put on a fat suit and see how the world treats you.

R169 I started going bald at 18. At that age I felt 55 and there was absolutely nothing to be done about it. A haircutter said to me I wouldn't be completely bald until 30. Like that was supposed to make me feel better. And I did not get my father's good looks. Even when my father died a gay friend found my father's obituary on line(I had no idea it was there ). My sisters had included a picture of my father as a young man. My friend said to me, 'Your father was good looking.' All I could do was roll my eyes.

I generally agree with the OP. Anecdotally, most of my academically and professionally accomplished friends have done well for themselves. While I wouldn't say they get attention for their accomplishments so much, their accomplishments do compel people to give them high level of respect. Just as an example, one of my friends and her husband own a successful commercial construction business (built from the ground up in their 20s) and that accomplishment has undoubtedly given them a much better life. They're also both very educated and have actually put some work into developing their lives. Although they are wealthy, I'd say their lives benefit from the sheer amount of people who respect them and want to be a part of their lives that offer them resources that aren't available to others.

On the other hand, I do know several former hunks and beauties who really fell on hard times later in life. In their younger years they received a lot of attention for their beauty, but they never really got their act together post-college which led to less financial stability and drama-riddled lives. One of my closest childhood friends was something of CZJ-type, fair skin with dark features, a nice figure and a great smile. People, myself included, always thought she'd find some wealthy attractive guy and live some polished life. Fast-forward a few years, she's had two jobs post-college, and her employers terminated her employment with cause and she is now unemployed without much hope for higher-paying work. Although she is still pretty, she has gained a lot of weight and hasn't taken care of herself, leading to issues with her teeth and general hygiene. Part of that is because she really never had to do anything in her youth to look beautiful. She just was. As age set in, she just kept up her same old routine from her youth that no longer was enough. She is definitely a case of only valuing her looks, to a point where she developed nothing else about her. And once she got older, she had no ability to construct any other resources for herself. And I know several of these types. I also have a cousin who, although still very pretty, developed a really nasty entitled attitude (due to my aunt and uncle's crummy parenting) that has sent potential spouses and friends fleeing. She is marrying a perfectly nice guy this upcoming summer, but her situation is well below what she envisioned for herself. I wouldn't say her situation is one of only valuing her looks, but she is very entitled and aggressive which is a major turn off to people who know her. I actually don't know of a single person who has actually found success on their looks alone. Eventually, you do have to bring more to the table. One thing that's a common thread with these types of people in my life is that their lives are very unstable and filled with drama and issues. Whether it's issues with the law, drug or alcohol abuse, unstable home lives that lead to significant fights, they all seem to stir up drama consistently.

[quote][R169]- I don't consider someone who's 18 years old to be a man, yet.

...but not a woman?

R13 This is true. But looks don’t hurt.

You're either not as attractive as you think. or you have a very dark, negative vibe you give off. That tends to blunt the affect of beauty.

It is a burden being beautiful, and I struggle under its weight every day.

OP is dead now. This was posted from the ICU at Beverly Hills Medical Center. Bye, Felicia.

We seem to have a bunch of old threads popping up again.

R177- It sounds akin to people who win $100million in the lottery - after taxes and the penalty for taking the money in one lump sum are deducted- and they don't know how to deal with their sudden wealth which creates all kinds of drama for them- like their relatives hating them and they spend the money ( it's like an illness) until it's all gone and they're even poorer than they were before they won the lottery. There was a HBO documentary called Lucky that showed this man from Pennsylvania whom this happened to.

[quote]I am considered very attractive

OP typing this post…..

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