Stephen Sondheim

Didn't he have two long term relationships with much younger men over the last decade?

Basically at this point it's "Everyday a little death"

He has a younger boyfriend who lives with him. I believe he's in his late 30s or early 40s.

Sunday in the park with "George."

Gin and regret. At least for most of his life.

The man is a sleeze. His "boyfriend" is nearly a half century younger than him.

R6 To borrow from another composer, "nice work if you can get it."

Is there any truth to the rumor that he used to hold some of his favorite, young, up and coming Broadway performers in his dungeon? I remember hearing that he gave certain performers their "big break" by casting them in his shows if they'd take part in his games, a sort of BDSM Broadway casting couch.

He can't be beat.

He's in his eighties and surely becomes fatigued just watching his bf get undressed. Desire doesn't equate to ability.

I don't think the dungeon rumors are true. He basically had a non-existent sex life until the mid-1980s, according to his biographer, and I had heard the rumors of the dungeon well before that. I think because nothing was happening with him sexually, people imagined he had an incredibly secret life, so secret he couldn't even talk about it to theater people who were fine with people being gay, and thus the rumors of the dungeon were born.

Major pussy hound

Big Bush supporter

[quote] I don't think the dungeon rumors are true. He basically had a non-existent sex life until the mid-1980s, according to his biographer, and I had heard the rumors of the dungeon well before that.

You CANNOT be that gullible. His biography said...?!

Oh please, Blanche.

The jokes about A LITTLE NIGHT MASOCHISM during its run? The Judge's self-whipping song in SWEENEY TODD? And those stories about those poor young Asian boys auditioning during PACIFIC OVERTURES....

I don't believe he had a non-existant sex life until the 1980s. He *is* a man after all.

Was he more than friends with Tony Perkins?

Were he and George Furth fucking during COMPANY?

I have a friend who has been at the Sondheim townhouse numerous times who says the dungeon rumors are false.

[quote]Were he and George Furth fucking during COMPANY?

That might explain the shitty book.

The dungeon is in the attic. Julia McKenzie was looking for a blanket.

There is a theater legend that says that Sondheim was writing Sweeney Todd and Katherine Hepburn, who lived on the other side, came running over to yell at Sondheim for the noise. So he put part of Hepburn's screeching into the score of Sweeney Todd. I don't know how true that is, but it's funny to think about.

I wonder if it was the Beggar Woman screaming, "City on fire!"

By part of screeching you mean a quote/line of what she shouted? Or like sampled her voice, yo?

I think he just sampled her voice. But I don't know how true the story really is.

[quote]The dungeon is in the attic.

You're thinking of Anne Frank (as portrayed by the immortal Phyllis Hammerow.)

Arthur Laurents called the Sondheim the most asexual man he'd ever known

Sondheim himself said the biggest regret of his life was not having children. This was on 60 Minutes after "Sunday". I think part of the problem is that the (young) men he attracts revere him and there can't be a substantial relationship like that.

Didn't Sondheim say that Lee Remick was his "wished for" wife?

He told me he went to the usual leather bars in NYC in the '70s. But everyone did that in those days.

Yes, I've met him several times. No, I don't expect any of you to be impressed.

Up until the mid-1980s (possibly early 90s?) his phone number was listed in the White Pages like every other schlub.

Young group here. He certainly was part of the wild anonymous scene in the 60's and 70's in NY. All kinds of things went on. If you weren't there you can't imagine how orgiastic and abandoned it was, and how incautious. All kinds of places were turned into fuck palaces. He and Perkins and a group of their friends were visible participants and didn't care.

They were both into pretty much everything. Perkins was a bottom and enjoyed bondage and mild sadomasochistic role play within safe limits (and not exclusively), usually but not always with people he knew at least casually.

Sondheim was more reserved and careful and a top. He too enjoyed bondage, sometimes was playful (thumb cuffs, break away handcuffs) and sometimes more serious (whether he ever had a "dungeon" depends on your definition of a dungeon. He had a play room, segregating the kink from the rest of his life).

I never heard of him forcing anyone (he was hardly the only person turned on by role play, the use of restraints, sensory deprivation and the inflicting of discomfort or mild pain). I also never heard of him "sling casting" or "hog tie" casting anyone. With his great fame, he was a magnet for cute young guys who'd go along with him and probably enjoy it on an occasional basis. He had a heart attack, losing a lot of his earlier drive and as AIDS became rampant he changed his life to a large degree.

Biographers often omit details and downplay promiscuity. Publishers are especially leery of bios of living people and pay lawyers to vet everything for potential defamation suits. The one Perkins bio is not even a tenth of the story, a fascinating one that will probably never be told in all its particulars.

Though his wife died (on 9/11) his still has two sons who could sue. His intense and eventually crazy involvement with another actor could not be told since that actor is still alive and married. By this time, in any case, very few know or care about Perkins. But amazing things happened for him (and to him) and they would make a great novel, though of a particular time, which for many is ancient history.

Sondheim, outside his acclaimed creative achievements, has had a less dramatic life, and after a youthful bacchanalian period (typical for a dysfunctional gay man with intimacy and vulnerability issues) , has had a rather a dull personal life. But the people who did have intimate relationships with him into his early sixties are alive, and only their testimony could make any claims of what transpired credible. Without their permission most would likely sue (some went on to fame, although they were young when they were involved with him) and none would want to talk for publication.

Fascinating, r30. Thanks for your post. I wish someone would write that book about Perkins! Sounds like you could do it.

I have it on good authority that when the closing credits of That Girl were being filmed, they had to continually re-film the kite flying sequence because Marlo Thomas kept slipping in the gay men cum left on the piers from the night before.

I always thought he was kinda hot. He's at his most handsome in the 80's. There's a beautiful twinkle in his eyes that's irresistible. You can see it in that video where he was teaching a class in London. He was trim, bearded, and so darn cute.

I never liked bearded Sondheim. I like him better as the schlubby Jewish boy in the Company documentary.

He was so greasy looking in the Pennebaker doc.

Sondheim, meh!

R30 AINT LYIN

So, did he and George Furth fuck or not? Furth was very submissive in the Pennebaker doc.

Fascinating post, R30! Thank you.

Spill, though. Who was the actor Perkins was involved with?

R21, I know a friend of his who told us that story so it is okay

yeah, every blue moon you'll get a gem like R30 come to visit

I hope someone like r30 is writing that kind of stuff down (WITH the details, obviously). It's important as social history. I'm in my 20s and I really liked the Perkins bio I read. It didn't seem like a whitewash - it even mentioned a blond young guy of whom Tony took bondage photos - but if there's juicier and more in-depth stuff, I'd like to read it. It's not true gays of this generation don't care about generations past.

What about Steve and Jim Lapine??

Do you think Elaine Stritch ever got drunk and tried to have sex with Steve? I can just see her flashing her boobs and saying, "Come on Stevie boy, Momma's doin' fine." I mean she reeled in the Bay's Muffin guy somehow.

I think Stritch was very screwed up about sex. I imagine she preferred talking about her crushes like a typical young girl than trying to seal the deal.

[quote]I think Stritch was very screwed up about sex

Could be. She herself says that she refused Marlon Brando's advances. Of course, Brando was dead by the time she was telling that tale so we'll never know the real truth.

She also said she defused advances from JFK. And wasn't she delusional about her and Ben Gazzara?

Stritch apparently didn't lose her virginity until her 30's. That's what she says, but then again, how - I mean HOOOOOWWWW- could one resist Brando in his prime? She really was a strong woman.

If you're deathly afraid of sex, the hotness of your potential partner won't mean anything.

Hasn't Gazarra pooh poohed (sp?) her take on their big romantic relationship? It wouldn't surprise me if she were a lesbian.

The British astrologist George Moore pretended to have a fiancee who died in the war. One time a radio interviewer asked the dead woman's name. His reply: "Can't remember".

Stritch is Aquarian----Sex can get funky

The English astronomer, who recently died, was Sir Patrick Moore. He lived with his mother till she died. He was enormously fat, a BBC TV 'character', and indeed always answered questions about his bachelorhood by saying his fiancee was killed in the war; and no one else would do.

I always thought he was of a type with PM Sir Edward Heath: unsexy 'lifelong bachelors' who were married to their careers. Functionally celibate. The recent unearthing of any and all 'historic sexual offences' might have put Sir Patrick's name in the frame, but so far not a hint. He was indeed a 'much-loved figure', passionate about his subject, and a prolific author.

Sir Edward by contrast has only now been named as using, late in life, an escort service for young men. This became news in an attempt to separate his name from the much darker allegations about top politicians and underage abuse set off following the Savile scandal.

Stritch married the Bay English Muffin guy, although I think many people knew he was gay.

With all the drinking that she did, you would think it would lower her sexual inhibitions, but maybe it just made them worse.

She says Brando made advances towards her. It's hard to say because Brando was known for being a highly sexual man. However, Elaine was not beautiful. She had really bad skin. Plus I think her personality was a turn off. I mean you see her cranky and drunk in the Company documentary. Who would want to be around that? And I'm sure Brando had no problem getting willing sex partners, so I don't see why he'd mess with her.

I wonder if Sondheim and Michael Bennett ever had sex?

Seriously, ew. He is not attractive sexually. Brilliant, yes. Attractive? Absolutely not.

Shame he wasn't getting much when he looked like this...

He had a moment there^

Now let me figure out which famous actors got their "break" from Sondheim shows!

AND HERE'S THAT CLIP OF HIM TEACHING

Two Sondheim stories: one I know to be true, the other is a rumor but I really hope it's true.

1. A friend used to work as a personal assistant for Jessye Norman, the opera diva. She send him over to Steve's house with a letter one day. My friend knocked and Steve answered the door. Steve expected the same stammering worship from my friend that he got from every gay in the world. My friend had never heard of Steven Sondheim. Steve was so taken with not being known that he chatted with my friend for two hours.

2, The story I heard is that Larry Kert (who was gorgeous and tortured, originated the role of Tony in West Side Story and replaced Dean Jones in Company) was drunk at a party and moaning about how much he hated doing Company eight times a week. "Who do I have to fuck to get out of this show?" he cried out. "The same person you fucked to get in it," replied Steven.

Thank you R30, very on the money. Mostly, Sondheim is, always was, a guy with a rather dull personal life. A schlubby Jewish boy he is , at times could have had cute moments when young. Mostly asexual now. The live-in companion? Think about it, who is he, what does he do, what kind of life can he really have? Do you do want sex with your grandfather? Ugh. It's so true, R30 is a gem here.

Yes,R30---MORE!

Is it true he wanted to marry Lee Remick?

Was the character of Joanne in Company patterned after Sondheim's mother?

[quote] And I'm sure Brando had no problem getting willing sex partners, so I don't see why he'd mess with her.

I read a Brando biography and it seemed like sex wasn't merely pleasure to him, it was also a way of hooking people, gaining power - not in an aggressive S&M way necessarily - basically putting people under his spell in a deeper sense than with the spell he cast merely by having those good looks. And a lot of Brando's need to reel people in, to make them "his", seems to have been based on the "absent almost always" of his alcoholic mother. She would go on benders and sometimes be found in motels, where she'd go with whoever laid her that night.... And perhaps he also recognised something of his mother in proto-alkie young Elaine. Stritch talks about having her first drink as a child in her one woman show, right? Maybe she was already on the sauce secretly by the time she met Brando, even if she did live with nuns for a time there.

[quote]Is it true he wanted to marry Lee Remick?

I'm gayer than Steve and even *I* would've married Lee Remick!

Elaine Stritch was married only once, to a closeted gay guy John Bay, and was likely asexual.

Can you imagine that snatch? Chilling!

Do we believe in asexuality?

[quote]He certainly was part of the wild anonymous scene in the 60's and 70's in NY. All kinds of things went on. If you weren't there you can't imagine how orgiastic and abandoned it was, and how incautious. All kinds of places were turned into fuck palaces.

Including Katharine Hepburn's brownstone!

[quote] Including Katharine Hepburn's brownstone!

Wasn't it one by definition?

R67----No

but I DO believe in repression and forgetting

Is it really confirmed that Elaine Stritch's husband was gay? Because if so, wouldn't he have picked an easier wife for a beard than the very demanding Stritch? I recently YouTubed a Theater Talk with Stritch, and it was one of the most engrossing, enlightening, and amusing half-hours ever. So I can see why anyone would find her fascinating,

But she was also not amiable when thwarted, and she would have been very thwarted if married to a gay guy. Elaine Stritch was not born to beard, not the type at all. So isn't there an internal contradiction here? Maybe John Bay wasn't gay, after all.

[quote] But she was also not amiable when thwarted, and she would have been very thwarted if married to a gay guy. Elaine Stritch was not born to beard, not the type at all. So isn't there an internal contradiction here?

Are you familiar with Elsa Lanchester?

[quote]Is it really confirmed that Elaine Stritch's husband was gay?

John Bay married Stritch when he was 45 and died ten years later. No other wives or children. You do the math.

"after a youthful bacchanalian period (typical for a dysfunctional gay man with intimacy and vulnerability issues) "

You shoulda quit while you were ahead, Dr. Freud. You're painting with a pretty wide brush and it would behoove you to stick to the facts if indeed you ever write that book.

From mutual friends: Somewhat wild in his younger days. Pretty asexual during the 80s. Tried long term relationships in the 90s and beyond with younger men but they don't usually last. The few times I've met him, he's been very nice, but reserved as I think he's built up a certain amount of guard against demented gay fan boys over the years.

I don't know about John and Elaine. The way she talks about him and how his death affected her...there was serious love there. I'm sure of it.

[quote]Is it really confirmed that Elaine Stritch's husband was gay? Because if so, wouldn't he have picked an easier wife for a beard than the very demanding Stritch?

Wouldn't a heterosexual man also have chosen an easier wife than Elaine Stritch? I never got the appeal of her. She had amazing comic timing, but she so high-maintenance that it was even apparent on the stage.

R76: I don't think anyone doubts that her love for him was very real and his death a heartbreaker for her. But if he was gay, it seems unlikely that he would have married someone so difficult--and by all accounts she was.

So I think maybe he wasn't gay.

I will say, too, that after many years of NY theatergoing, I've seen few performers as fascinating as Stritch. A true creature of the stage. She even looked great way, way longer than many another would have.

I don't get the reasoning that he'd avoid a difficult woman because he was gay and what, just looking for a compliant woman to be seen on his arms? Perhaps there's was a kind of love, quasi-romantic and without sex. Hasn't the British actor Simon Callow spoken of an older woman with whom he had such a relationship?

Simon Callow's 'older woman' was the famous play agent Peggy Ramsay, about whom he wrote a fascinating book, 'Love Is Where It Falls.'

(Vanessa Redgrave memorably portrayed her in the Joe Orton biopic 'Prick Up Your Ears.')

As I recall, Callow/Ramsay was a strongly flirtatious social, professional and financial friendship - but no more. Callow was a Walker With Benefits, and Ramsay loved his youth, vigour and attentiveness. She was obviously a priceless theatrical contact for Callow; and set him up in a flat to help him on his way.

Ramsay was indifferent to Callow's then partner (who later killed himself); and jealous when Callow began hanging out more with Rupert Everett, then the talk of the town. Ramsay did I think have some obscure if devoted older (male) companion of her own, permanently offstage and out-of-town.

Anyway, it's to Callow's credit I think that he set down the relationship so vividly as to be memorable to me many years after reading the book.

Jake Heggie is another one who had that kind of marriage.

Jake Heggie's relationship was with Frederika Von Stade though I don't think they married.

Heggie was married at 21 to the elderly Johana Harris

I could tell you a story about his ice cubes if someone would trade

and swap tales

Does it involve Absolut Peppar?

CLOSE...^ But slimier

I was told that the real reason Stephen and Hal Prince's partnership broke up is that Hal got sick of bribing the Connecticut State Police to keep silent about the pain pigs who escaped from Stephen's country home.