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Jewel in the Crown

I just watched this on Netflix. I was SHOCKED at how great the production values were. This was TV miniseries from the fucking 1980s and they spent MONEY. Beautiful, on-location shots in India.

The acting was amazingly great. Judy Parfitt played the biggest fucking cunt ever committed to screen.

I was also really surprised by all the gay subject matter.

It has apparently been remastered so it looked like a film on my iPad.

I WHOLLY recommend it to all of you.

by Anonymousreply 202October 26, 2019 10:19 AM

It as made around the same time as A Passage to India, which also starred Peggy Ashcroft (who won an Oscar). Both a are the type of big, sweeping stories based on great novels you don't see anymore.

by Anonymousreply 1September 29, 2015 1:33 AM

I found it very similar to A Passage to India, but far more sensationalistic, and, therefore, more fun.

Jewel in the Crown has a lot more camp and humor.

by Anonymousreply 2September 29, 2015 1:41 AM

I had a huge crush on Charles Dance after watching this. So many bad guys to hate too. That closeted sadist military guy. Judy Parfitt was a bitch!

by Anonymousreply 3September 29, 2015 1:44 AM

Judy Parfitt made Joan Crawford in Mommie Dearest seem as lovely as Lassie.

by Anonymousreply 4September 29, 2015 1:46 AM

Nobody can do bitch like Judy Parfitt.

by Anonymousreply 5September 29, 2015 1:48 AM

I just watched this over the summer on Netflix, and my word is it as good as people say. Peggy Ashcroft just breaks your heart, but jeez is Judy Parfitt perfect as the cuntiest cunt ever.

by Anonymousreply 6September 29, 2015 1:53 AM

Judy Parfitt should be DL's patron saint.

by Anonymousreply 7September 29, 2015 1:56 AM

There was another old Brit series on Netflix awhile back, "Edward the King". Insane production values: entire ballrooms full of people in period costume, props galore. Charles Dance was in that one too, but it was one of his first roles, and it was a tiny one in the final two episodes (I think he played the son of Edward, who looked nothing like Dance).

by Anonymousreply 8September 29, 2015 1:57 AM

Peggy Ashcroft had a total lesbo thing going on, right?

by Anonymousreply 9September 29, 2015 1:57 AM

I love it too! The opening scene where a Crane commits suttee for India in that little shed starts it off perfectly. Daphne with her "specs", so many beautifully done details. It inspired me to read the books.

by Anonymousreply 10September 29, 2015 1:59 AM

I loved everyone in this production. Peggy Ashcroft deservedly won an Emmy the same year she won the Oscar (for a completely dissimilar performance), Judy Parfitt was brilliant as an alcoholic stone-cold bitch whom you still could see as a human being deep down, Susan Wooldridge and Geraldine James were great in the two leading female roles, Art Malik was very hot as the sexually molested Hari Kumar, Tim Piggott-Smith was terrifying as his twisted molestor, and Charles Dance was sex on a stick as Guy Perron.

A great production of a great series of novels.

by Anonymousreply 11September 29, 2015 2:02 AM

Was it accurate that members of the British military were so "out" about being gay in the 1940s?

I know England has always been more eager to turn a blind eye than puritanical, stupid, religious America, but it seemed oddly blatant.

by Anonymousreply 12September 29, 2015 2:04 AM

Edward the King is worth seeing just for Annette Crosbie, who gives what is in my opinion the greatest performance in a British series ever (she, even greater than Sian Phillips in "I, Claudius") as the volcanic Queen Victoria (she's in 10 of the 13 episodes). She won the BAFTA Best Actress award for it, and no one has ever come as close to evoking Queen Victoria's extremely mercurial personality the way she did.

by Anonymousreply 13September 29, 2015 2:04 AM

I found Geraldine James intoxicatingly sympathetic.

by Anonymousreply 14September 29, 2015 2:05 AM

There was a BBC radio series of The Raj Quartet a few years ago in which Geraldine James played the Judy Parfitt role (her original character's mother). Cumberbatch was in it too as well as a lot of other big names.

by Anonymousreply 15September 29, 2015 2:12 AM

Indian men are HOTT!!

by Anonymousreply 16September 29, 2015 2:46 AM

If you have the time, also read the "Raj Quartet" by Paul Scott. As good or better than the TV series--but a serious time commitment--4 long books.

by Anonymousreply 17September 29, 2015 3:08 AM

This and I, Claudius. The two best things the BBC ever did.

by Anonymousreply 18September 29, 2015 3:26 AM

I loved this series when it came out!

And I had a major crush on the guy who played Hari Kumar (who looks REALLY old now, having seen him in the miniseries Arthur & George)

by Anonymousreply 19September 29, 2015 3:33 AM

R11 I agree, wonderful series, quality all over

by Anonymousreply 20September 29, 2015 3:35 AM

Jewel in the Crown was made for ITV and the BBC had no involvement in its making.

by Anonymousreply 21September 29, 2015 3:41 AM

I've been recommending Jewel in the Crown for 30 years. It would probably be my nominee for greatest TV drama series ever made.

by Anonymousreply 22September 29, 2015 3:56 AM

Brideshead Revisited in 1981 and then Jewel in the Crown 1984 were the high water mark for Brit period drama for sometime to come.

I watched the craptastic Indian Summers last night....what a disappointment. Makes Downtown Abbey look like Shakespeare.

by Anonymousreply 23September 29, 2015 4:02 AM

Jewel in the Crown is very likely television's best achievement - past or future. (Well, either Jewel in the Crown or Brideshead Revisited.)

Both came from a much, much better time - when people financing a project were willing to do it right and tell a complete story. And if that took 15 hours, so be it. These days, if it were made at all, it would probably be cut to two or three episodes.

by Anonymousreply 24September 29, 2015 4:04 AM

Judy Parfitt now plays one of the nuns on Call the Midwife.

by Anonymousreply 25September 29, 2015 4:06 AM

Judy Parfitt is extraordinary, WW R5 and R7!

by Anonymousreply 26September 29, 2015 4:19 AM

Judy Parfitt and Peggy Ashcroft. "You bloody bitch!"

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by Anonymousreply 27September 29, 2015 4:27 AM

R12 I watched the series and was not under the impression the British military were so “out” about being gay in the 1940s. The pivotal character played so brilliantly by Tim Piggott-Smith, the closeted, vile, ambitious and ruthless Major Ronald Merrick, threatened to “out” a lowly British military hospital clerk unless he provided access to another person’s psychiatric records. Someone above aptly described the Merrick character as “twisted.”

by Anonymousreply 28September 29, 2015 4:34 AM

R28 It wasn't just that storyline that had gay elements.

The hero was asked if he minded going to a party with people who had various sexualities. He said, no. There were obvious (bad) drag queens there.

One of the military suitors invited for dinner was read for being gay by the ladies and later cruised another military man at a club.

But the biggest example was "Sophie" -- the raging queen who spoke exclusively in a pre-Stonewall camp. It was like Mrs Patrick Campbell come to life.

by Anonymousreply 29September 29, 2015 12:50 PM

R27 Superb acting

by Anonymousreply 30September 29, 2015 2:46 PM

Judy Parfitt delivered the line I would think could serve as Datalounge's official motto: "Sometimes, being a bitch is all a woman has to hold onto." (from the film Dolores Claiborne). She has, indeed, perfected that art.

As for Jewel in the Crown, it's a classic along with of "I, Claudius".

by Anonymousreply 31September 29, 2015 2:55 PM

Art Malik was on "Homeland" and the rebooted, short-lived "Upstairs, Downstairs."

by Anonymousreply 32September 29, 2015 3:48 PM

Tim Piggott-Smith has been playing Prince Charles on stage lately--an uncanny impersonation.

by Anonymousreply 33September 29, 2015 4:04 PM

The only problem I had with it (other than Jeraldine James adding 20 pounds each time she stepped indoors, as those scenes were shot later in England) was that Tim Piggott-Smith's post-injury make-up was not made for a remastered version viewed on an HD screen.

by Anonymousreply 34September 29, 2015 5:27 PM

Then don't watch "I, Clavdivs," R34. The production values, including the makeup as the characters age, are atrocious. At least the sets don't wobble, as they did on the '67 version of "The Forsyte Saga." Do watch "Claudius" for the acting, though, and the screenplay.

I've lost count of how many times I've watched "The Jewel in the Crown." It never gets old or any less enthralling. I've read the books at least four times, too. (The screenplay is a master class in page-to-screen reduction.)

by Anonymousreply 35September 29, 2015 6:44 PM

I watched Jewel in the Crown when I was in high school. IOt was amazing to see gay characters on TV.

Hari Kumar!

by Anonymousreply 36September 29, 2015 6:46 PM

Hari Kumar wasn't gay. Ronald Merrick lusted after him but Hari was in love with Daphne Manners and was the father of her child.

by Anonymousreply 37October 4, 2015 2:38 AM

R37 Yes, Hari Kumar loved Daphne Manners and she, and her aunt, Lady Manners, chose to believe he was the father of her child. However, the child's paternity is never for certain as she was gang raped by a mob right after having sex with Hari in a public park. The child could very well have been fathered by one of the rapists.

by Anonymousreply 38October 4, 2015 3:25 AM

Is that the one where everyone is named Patel?

by Anonymousreply 39October 4, 2015 3:49 AM

Patel is a very common name in India. it means "farmer."

by Anonymousreply 40October 4, 2015 3:58 AM

I saw it. Didn't like it. Couldn't keep the 300 Patel's in the movie separate.

by Anonymousreply 41October 4, 2015 3:59 AM

I loved A Passage to India, book and film (faux-brown Alec Guinness was barely in it so don't even complain to me about him) so I was really pleased to discover Jewel, which pretty much a soap version of it.

Art Malik was totally hot. Loved Hari Kumar. What a tragic character. I felt so, so, sorry for Susan. I totally wanted her to hook up with the sexy bearded Indian falconer, but she finally gets laid when loveable ditz Aunt Fenny sets her up with a random officer (he had a shadowy nude scene from memory) and Judy Parfitt figures she is pregnant because the only interest she takes i her daughters' well-being is to make sure they make good use of sanitary napkins each month. "Abort it!". Damn. Tim Piggot-Smith was the lynchpin and was superb . Saw him play Henry Higgins opposite Michelle Dockery's Eliza Doolittle. Great chemistry.

Not a fan of Charkes Dance's character. He was fine but he was very clumsy posited as the authorial conscience to wrap up the series and pride Susan with her happy ending. (He's Oxbridge educated, but one of the guys! Highly intelligent, but chose to be a private on general principle! He is a ladies man, but is amusedly nonplussed by the gays! A thorough Brit, but hates Colonialism! And he looks like Charles Dance!)

I read the first book, but was not inspired to go onto the others. The literary pretensions barely work; I feel the miniseries was brilliantly adapted to take advantage of the richness of character.

by Anonymousreply 42October 4, 2015 4:13 PM

The books WERE trying too hard to be "Great Literature" when in reality they were a tiny bit artier than "The Thorn Birds".

Thanks to this thread, I'm going to have to have a "Jewel" marathon soon.

by Anonymousreply 43October 4, 2015 10:05 PM

As for the gays, like every other society with a rigid class system. No one ever pretended they didn't exist as on as they they knew their place. Like camp queen Sophie. Warren Oates may have gotten this role for playing a near identical character in Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy - the breezy, cheerful hairdresser of London Circus.

by Anonymousreply 44October 6, 2015 2:16 PM

Was the man Susan lost her virginity to supposed to be suave and seductive?

He came across as incredibly creepy and predatory.

I wasn't sure if it was just the changing mores from the 80s to now, or that was how he was depicted in the book.

by Anonymousreply 45October 6, 2015 2:40 PM

Suave and predatory, I think. They flirted a bit and he cottoned that Sarah (I accidentally referred to her as Susan upthread) as a sexually pretending virgin. He didn't bother to seduce her but showed up naked in her room and bluntly stated that they would not have more than a night. Young people have all met men like him. I think Sarah wanted to have sleep with him but obviously would have preferred the standard mating rituals of a man at least pretending to be romantic and interested in her, which added to the trauma after her abortion. Aunt Fenny was a bit of an ageing social butterfly and correctly guessed that Sarah needed to get outside her head and live life a bit, and it personally didn't occur to her that Sarah wasn't able to handle meaningless sex.

Still, better him than Merrick.

by Anonymousreply 46October 7, 2015 1:08 AM

Anyone else annoyed by what an unrepentant nerd Daphne Manners was? No? Just me? You're sassy enough to publically chase Indian tail in the 40s, woman, stop gaping like a literal fish out of water and grow some self esteem.

Hari was so gorgeous and I don't see what he saw in her, other than that she was suitably rebellious to be interested in him to the extent that he placed her photo on his desk in full view of all and sundry.

by Anonymousreply 47February 21, 2016 3:57 PM

I just remember saying "Hari Kumar" in a british accent over and over

by Anonymousreply 48February 21, 2016 4:02 PM

"Harry Coomer".

by Anonymousreply 49February 21, 2016 4:06 PM

Peggy Ashcroft's character saw this biggest cunt being hard fucking in an house she went and if I'm correct she died shortly afterwards (Peggy's character).

by Anonymousreply 50February 21, 2016 4:06 PM

^^ hard fucked

by Anonymousreply 51February 21, 2016 4:07 PM

Hari

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by Anonymousreply 52February 21, 2016 4:07 PM

[quote] surprised by all the gay subject matter.

Really, OP?

The gay subject matter was negative.

Why does that surprise you?

by Anonymousreply 53February 21, 2016 4:12 PM

So, let's see if I have this right.

The British are incredible snobs.

They treated Indians as an inferior race

They treated middle class Englishmen even worse than they treated Indians. They despised middle class people like Tim Piggot Smith's character.

The English middle class was treated so badly by the English toffs that the middle class became twisted and mistreated Indians badly.

So the middle class's twisted jealousy brought down the empire.

by Anonymousreply 54February 21, 2016 5:19 PM

R54 I would say countries, which were forced to be a part the British Empire, had enough and wanted to get rid off them.

by Anonymousreply 55February 21, 2016 5:25 PM

I could never get into this (or Brideshead Revisited) when they first came out. Perhaps I'll give them another shot.

by Anonymousreply 56February 21, 2016 5:27 PM

R55 The United States, Canada, and India are all better for having been part of the British Empire.

by Anonymousreply 57February 21, 2016 5:56 PM

[quote]Patel is a very common name in India. it means "farmer."

Do tell!

by Anonymousreply 58February 21, 2016 7:01 PM

For several decades I wondered why Geraldine James did not become a major film star......and then I saw her in a recent HAMLET on Broadway playing Hamlet's mother. What a blank slate; she added nothing to the role.

by Anonymousreply 59February 21, 2016 7:06 PM

[quote]Patel is a very common name in India. it means "farmer."

Now, you tell me.

by Anonymousreply 60February 21, 2016 7:09 PM

It's funny how chunky Geraldine James got between filming the exteriors in India and filming the interiors in England.

Every time she walks into a room she gains 20 pounds!

by Anonymousreply 61February 21, 2016 7:11 PM

Interiors put on a lot of weight.

by Anonymousreply 62February 21, 2016 7:31 PM

GJ shows up in "45 Years" as Rampling's best pal and confidante.

by Anonymousreply 63February 21, 2016 7:32 PM

She was also in that show about prostitutes that got a lot of attention when I was a kid, Band of Gold.

by Anonymousreply 64February 21, 2016 7:34 PM

It's interesting, after all these years, that Timothy Piggot Smith is a huge hit on Broadway and the West End in a play about Prince Charles.

That is a long career.

by Anonymousreply 65February 21, 2016 7:45 PM

Well, Piggot Smith's character was treated horribly by the "not one of us" crowd. This made him despise Indians, because his Britishness gave him a sense of superiority over the Indians. He had to show everyone that he was better than somebody else. He may not have been a graduate of the right school, but he was white, goddamn it, and he felt that counted for something.

I always felt that if he wasn't treated so badly by the upper class, then he wouldn't have been so awful to Indians.

by Anonymousreply 66February 21, 2016 7:57 PM

W&W, r52.

Got any more pics?

by Anonymousreply 67February 21, 2016 8:09 PM

for R67

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by Anonymousreply 68February 21, 2016 9:26 PM

Nice work on the Hari Hotness, r68. Please, sir, I want some more.

I like r54's take. Much of this story is about the devolution of the power of class identity in Britain as social glue. It still is, very much so, but as Britain but as Britain's international power ebbed and for it's own economic benefit was forced to take in the foreigners it subjugated, the dynamics of class altered and still continues to do so.

And it is not uncoincidental that the series ended with basically the first white English male in the show to possess bullshit-free masculinity in the driver's seat. Upper-class Guy Perron - with his (ridiculously) flawless balance of ironic detachment, unaffected self-possession and gentlemanly sensitivity - was the audience's stand-in as he and the eternally beset-upon Sarah gently depart the sub-continent. Not to take away from Dance's attractive performance (indeed, it is a testament to him), but the writing of that character kind of pissed me off. A "there, we weren't all bad, were we?" sop to the traditionalists who might have been offended by all that occurred previously right at the end.

r55 [quote]I would say countries, which were forced to be a part the British Empire, had enough and wanted to get rid off them.

Hee! #Scotland #Brexit

by Anonymousreply 69February 22, 2016 2:24 PM

That's why CGI effects are used so much now. The costs would be too exorbitant to create these production values as real standing sets and backgrounds.

by Anonymousreply 70February 22, 2016 3:05 PM

I thought Guy Perron treated the policemen very badly, too. He despised the Merrick immediately rather than feeling his way around the personality and philosophy of the man, who had been literally following orders from the raj for decades.

The upper crust wanted rebellion put down (until, like South African politicians, they realized too late that the tsunami of nationalism was about to crash ashore) but they didn't want to get their hands dirty. So they put it into the hands of people like Merrick and then despised the Merricks for carrying out their orders to suppress members of the national congress.

None of the upper crust took Merrick aside and said, "I say old boy, the empire's going to shit. You'd better stop doing what we've been telling you to do for the past 30 years. Our bad! Heh heh. Yes, see, independence is actually coming no matter what we do and all the beatings, all the arrests, all the false confessions and jailhouse hangings must stop now. We apologise to you for making you do the dirty work while we sneered at you, from the tables of our exclusive clubs, for being a pathetic middle class brute. You understand, don't you old fellow! Job well done, eh? Thanks for your service, really."

I certainly didn't like Merrick, but he was the creature of the people who looked down on him. They put him in that position, they told him to put down rebellion by any means possible. When a Indian fellow who went to the right school in Britain was caught up in merrick's net, they all went apeshit about how brutal Merrick was. But they didn't care what he did before that, when it was being done to Indians who didn't go to Chillingborough and didn't have posh British accents.

I thought they were all repellent with their sudden concern for Indian civil rights when their parents and grandparents made the laws and trained the police.

by Anonymousreply 71February 22, 2016 3:17 PM

The funniest part of JITC is whenever fucking Chillingborough is brought up in front of Merrick, he dolefully says "I was a Grammar School boy".

by Anonymousreply 72February 28, 2016 11:09 AM

The sweeping, big budgeted TV mini series is long gone.

by Anonymousreply 73February 28, 2016 11:13 AM

Even the two-or-three-parters are few and far between. Occasionally there is a Larry McMurtry adaptation, or something glossy and semi-literary and period-based with an aged-out star like Kevin Costner.

I suppose the limited-series/"long-form" series like FLESH AND BONE or THE SLAP are the modern day equivalents.

by Anonymousreply 74February 28, 2016 11:25 AM

Just finished the third episode.

Isn't a clear hint to Hari's homosexuality his unrequited longing for his English school chum?

I'm a bit confused over Peggy Ashcroft and Fabia Drake's (is she Aunt Fenny?) relationship. Can anyone explain? And who are they to Judy Parfitt's clan?

I don't think anyone upothread mentioned lovely Rachel Kempson as Lady Manners. Wasn't she mother to Vanessa and Lynne?

Tim Pigott-Smith is an amazing actor! Such a long and varied career. I've been lately seeing him as Prince Charles or as assorted kindly sexless elders so it's a pleasure to watch him in his youth in such an aggressive (and sexy) mode.

WEHT Susan Wooldridge?

by Anonymousreply 75March 2, 2016 12:56 AM

[quote]The sweeping, big budgeted TV mini series is long gone.

So are wonderful one BBC TV films like this.

Anyone who's a fan of Dame Peggy &/or very good British TV drama, should give this a try. So good.

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by Anonymousreply 76March 2, 2016 1:35 AM

[quote]Isn't a clear hint to Hari's homosexuality his unrequited longing for his English school chum?

There were several gay characters, but probably not Hari. At least, not that I ever noticed. I think his longing for his English school chum had more to do with missing the good life he had in England. He absolutely despised India and was, at one point, described as the permanent misfit, i.e., too English for the Indians and too Indian for the English.

[quote]I'm a bit confused over Peggy Ashcroft and Fabia Drake's (is she Aunt Fenny?) relationship. Can anyone explain? And who are they to Judy Parfitt's clan?

Fabria Drake played Mabel Layton, mother-in-law to Mildred (Judy Parfitt). Aunt Fenny (Mildred's sister) was played by Rosemary Leach. Barbie (Peggy Ashcroft) was originally a missionary and school teacher, who later became a paid[?] companion to Mabel Layton. Barbie and Mabel became good friends, but not in a romantic sense.

Although the story unfolds over a long period, there is one particular episode that goes into much more detail regarding these people's history and current relationships. I think it's the one titled "Regimental Silver."

Hope you enjoy the rest of the series. It's a magnificent production.

by Anonymousreply 77March 2, 2016 1:43 AM

Was Fabia Drake related to Gabrielle and Nick Drake?

by Anonymousreply 78March 2, 2016 2:02 AM

Mabel Layton hated her daughter-in-law Mildred (who wouldn't?), who expected to move into Rose Cottage, so it was let out to Barbie instead. So then Mildred took her revenge with Barbie's set of Apostle spoons and by spreading rumours that she was a lesbian (possibly true) who pursued young women like Sarah and Susan (absolutely not). Ugh! She was worse than Merrick. Though, like him, not wholly unsympathetic nor ultimately inhuman.

by Anonymousreply 79March 2, 2016 11:58 AM

Hari Kumar's is tragically bruised. But on the other hand, his chest looks exactly as I hoped.

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by Anonymousreply 80March 2, 2016 12:11 PM

Judy Parfitt should have won all the awards possible for her performance as a biggest tv cunt ever!

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by Anonymousreply 81March 2, 2016 2:17 PM

Has anyone seen The Far Pavilions, yet another Indian-set mini series from 1984?

by Anonymousreply 82March 2, 2016 2:26 PM

Yes, r82. Amy Irving was insane casting, a bit off, but didn't sink it.

Ben Cross was total sex.

by Anonymousreply 83March 2, 2016 6:17 PM

Why do we think Judy Parfitt never broke internationally, despite acclaimed work like this and DOLORES CLAIBORNE?

by Anonymousreply 84March 2, 2016 6:32 PM

There are people who toss off a biting one-liner, and then there is me.

by Anonymousreply 85March 2, 2016 6:41 PM

Judy Parfitt couldn't be sweeter as the elder nun on Call the Midwife. I also saw her on Broadway in a revival of the old 1930s melodrama Night Must Fall as the old biddy who is done in by Matthew Broderick. She's always fab!!

by Anonymousreply 86March 3, 2016 12:42 AM

Datalounge Fave Ronald Merrick has been nominated for a Tony!

by Anonymousreply 87May 3, 2016 5:27 PM

What's with Sarah? She's always bedding men she barely knows and then never seeing them again. Very strange for a woman in those days. Only married women had affairs, precisely because of pregnancy. Sarah needed an abortion. Does she learn her lesson? No.

It's the 1940s, not the 1960s. You waited until you were married to fool around with lots of me. Then, when you got pregnant, you had a handy dandy husband to blame it on.

And what's with Sophie? How many out gay men were there in the British army in WWII?

I feel there is a lot of symbolism that I don't get. Sarah and Charles Dance going through the old guy's residence (he wasn't a maharaja. I forget what he was). Was that supposed to be symbolic of England in India? English people wafting through someone else's house, touching things and making what looked like poses?

I figured Barbie's death symbolised the death of Old English India? Is that why we saw the atomic bomb go off? Because it symbolised the modern world? Was it symbolising America becoming the new powerhouse of empire?

Why is Mildred such a caricature of a person?

by Anonymousreply 88August 16, 2016 11:09 PM

[quote] lots of me.

Lots of straight me!

by Anonymousreply 89August 16, 2016 11:10 PM

I plan watch it soon.

by Anonymousreply 90August 16, 2016 11:16 PM

Admirers of Jewel might also like a made for TV film called Staying On, starring Trevor Howard and Celia Johnson. Although the movie was made before Jewel, it concerns the period following independence, focusing on an aging couple who were minor characters in the Raj Quartet who remained in India after independence.

by Anonymousreply 91August 17, 2016 12:52 AM

[quote]And what's with Sophie? How many out gay men were there in the British army in WWII?

Out? Not many. And they wouldn't be bold enough to mince around calling themselves Sophie. But in there was always a sensitive man, very kind to his mother and loves a good sing-song type in every British workplace so Sophie was very much a type. Not to say when his fellow soldiers are their 4th gin fizz, they don't beat the shit out of the queen for shits and giggles. But in a "make do and manage", highly structured organisation involving the British, during office hours you just get on with things. And at least he's not Indian.

by Anonymousreply 92August 17, 2016 3:35 AM

Yes, Judy Parfitt was once a demure young girl about town. And how beautiful was Roger Moore in this clip??

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by Anonymousreply 93August 17, 2016 6:06 AM

Another vote for the greatness of Annette Crosbie as Queen Victoria in "Edward the Seventh" (released in the US as "Edward the King").

The whole series is on youtube, and is so worth seeing just for Crosbie. Watch her in the first two minutes of the clip, where she's found out on her birthday that she's pregnant with her first son. Her mercurialness is extraordinary, but Crosbie makes it wholly believable.

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by Anonymousreply 94August 17, 2016 6:26 AM

Holy shit, R93, I never knew Roger Moore was such a hot piece in his youth!!

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by Anonymousreply 95August 17, 2016 6:46 AM

Young Roger Moore is DL's Hot Slut of the Day!

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by Anonymousreply 96August 17, 2016 6:46 AM

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

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by Anonymousreply 97August 17, 2016 6:49 AM

I love how this thread is tagged Nostalgia.

I thought that was all DL threads.

by Anonymousreply 98August 17, 2016 6:58 AM

I love thorough it is pure trash " Duchess of Duke Street" and "Lillie" based on Lillie Langtry . Fabulous performance

by Anonymousreply 99August 17, 2016 8:00 AM

OT, but the composer of The Saint theme song was Pete Townshend's father in law.

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by Anonymousreply 100August 22, 2016 2:01 PM

[quote] But in there was always a sensitive man, very kind to his mother and loves a good sing-song type in every British workplace so Sophie was very much a type.

Sophie wasn't like that at all. He was openly gay, very cynical and very wise to the ways of the world. He wouldn't love a good sing song unless it was an obscene song about how fucked up the world is.

by Anonymousreply 101August 22, 2016 2:20 PM

JITC brings back a memory.

I remember back in the early 80s there was this friend of mine, Rod, who was seriously obsessed with JITC. It was all he would talk about. Neither one of us was gay, at least we didn't know we were, or didn't acknowledge we were.

I was over at his apartment one night sleeping on his couch and I woke up and he was in front of me, his penis near my face. He was whispering that I could touch it. I closed my eyes and waited for him to leave. This was in the early 80s, before the internet and all that, and we grew up in very conservative catholic families where sex wasn't talked about at all. Homosexuality wasn't really a topic in movies or on TV. I wonder if younger people today even know how you many of us just stumbled onto our sexualities back then.

I didn't watch JITC but it may be that, with homosexuality a topic in the show, it moved him to try to make some sort of gay connection with another person. But I wasn't ready. It wasn't until a few years later, when I went to college (NYU -- oh my god!) that I got an education in sexuality.

So in other words, very late bloomer here. One side benefit of being a sexual retard like I was: it may have saved my life.

by Anonymousreply 102August 22, 2016 2:22 PM

R102 - great story. Read like a passage from an Alan Hollinghurst novel.

Thanks for this thread, everyone. I'm a Brit-American child of the 80s and 90s, but was too young to have seen this mini series when it aired. Sounds really interesting. Will be checking it out.

by Anonymousreply 103August 22, 2016 2:41 PM

I didn't understand the Sarah Layton character at all. She was such an enigma that she was bland and uninteresting. She was always going to Mayapore or going to Calcutta or going to Siringar or going to Pankot. She was always going someone, then briefly popping in on someone else, saying hello and leaving, only to report in her next location that she'd just been to ---- and had seen ---- and had said hello and --- sends his regards.

Then she sleeps with some random man, watches her sister do something strange and hears her mother say something bitchy, to which she responds, "Oh mother."

Sarah: Hello, Guy, Nice to see you. I just got back from Cawnpore where I saw Nigel. He sends his regards. Father is coming up from Jadphur tomorrow, I'll be sure to tell him you said hello. I'm going to see Barbie next week in Pankot and will pop in on Ronald on my way back to the hill station. Perhaps I can have dinner with Lady Manners after that. Tonight I'm dining at the club with Aunt Fenny, then sneaking away to have sex with Ahmed. Perhaps we can meet for a drink tomorrow after I have lunch with the regiment. I'm afraid I must run. I'm having tea with the Allspices, then and teaching the prince's daughter how to ride a horse.

Guy: I can see you're keeping busy

Sarah: No. Not really. Well, goodbye. It's nice seeing you again,

by Anonymousreply 104August 22, 2016 3:19 PM

R102 Good story. I watched it when I was young, not even teenager, but the gay story line moved me as well. I remembered many scenes from it and few years ago I watched it again and simply loved it. One of the greatest series. It took time to its story lines, no hurry.

by Anonymousreply 105August 22, 2016 4:27 PM

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but the reason this show looks so good for something so old is that it was shot on film, not video.

by Anonymousreply 106August 22, 2016 5:11 PM

Judy Parfitt was a great relatively young and imperious Lady Catherine de Burgh in the BBC's 80s Pride and Prejudice - the one before the Colin Firth one, where the went back to the old dowager version. David Rintoul was a super-hot Mr Darcy as well.

by Anonymousreply 107August 22, 2016 5:39 PM

Sarah was a pleasant surprise in 45 Years. The Aunt Fenny of the film, so to speak.

by Anonymousreply 108November 13, 2016 12:33 PM

I agree Sarah isn't much of a character but she's true to life. It's not like she could just pop down to her gynecologist in her crappy little colonial town and get a diaphragm. If you didn't feel like living as a sexless being until you were married and the man you wanted didn't have a rubber, you took your chances.

by Anonymousreply 109November 13, 2016 12:44 PM

Art Malik's Hari Kumar had a casual hotness about him.

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by Anonymousreply 110November 13, 2016 12:56 PM

People who lived those lives abroad were usually more adventurous. They didn't stay home evey night or hang out at the local pub. They were used to travel and travel they did. Also the life of a military family was all about social interactions. I didn't find Sarah odd or boring. She may have been quiet but she wasn't all about just getting married. She joined the service and always stepped up to do her duty when others didn't.

My mother adored Jewel and had taped it. She always loved stories of India from when she was a child reading Kipling. I didn't fully appreciate it when it first aired but I saw it recently on PBS when they re-aired it. I was stunned at what a wonderful telling of the end of the Raj it was. Just captivating history. Now I have an anniversary edition copy whoch I look forward to watching again.

There's something just magical about Jewel and Brideshead. Some of the most beautiful TV ever.

by Anonymousreply 111November 13, 2016 3:53 PM

I kind of hated how Guy Perrin intuited that Merrick was a wrong 'un. Everyone else lived through his shit and the savvier people - Daphne, Sarah, that hot dudeb bearded man who rode horses - figure out his manipulation. It sort of ruined it. He was too much a stand in for the author.

by Anonymousreply 112July 11, 2019 10:29 AM

For those of you who have read the books AND watched the series, which would you say is better? I haven't either.

by Anonymousreply 113July 11, 2019 12:56 PM

I read the Raj Quartet, as it is called, on which the series is based, and it is a masterpiece, so small wonder the series was so good. Given the depth and complexity of Scott's work, what was really amazing about the televisions series is how much justice it did to so complex a work in just 12 episodes. I think Jewel in the Crown, along with Brideshead Revisited, among the peak examples of what television can do when it tries.

The four novels that make up the Quartet are not an easy read, but they are worth the patience, exquisitely written, and exceptional in the way they weave the tragedy of Daphne and Hari together with the tangled embrace of Britain and India.

Recommend both the written work and the television series to anyone. It was also early glimpses of Charles Dance, Tim Piggott-Smith, and Geraldine James, and Art Malik, along with seasoned hands like Eric Porter, Peggy Ashcroft, Judy Parfitt, and Stuart Wilson doing the first of many of his handsome but sleazy roles (underrated actor, in my opinion, and too early typecast as Not Quite The Clean Potato).

I would add the first and far more authentic than the remake of a few years ago, Forsyte Saga to the list of exceptional adaptations Granada and BBC brought to the small screen.

by Anonymousreply 114July 11, 2019 1:11 PM

r113, the TV series is better.

by Anonymousreply 115July 11, 2019 1:16 PM

R107 = I actually caught a glimpse the other day of a very young Parfitt in an episode of The Saint on one of those vintage television stations.

She did a marvellous small role a few years ago in that very well done MI6 espionage series, The Game, also featuring a stellar cast, Parfitt as an Medea-like Mum to Paul Ritter's homosexual son. Parfitt took every scene she was in.

by Anonymousreply 116July 11, 2019 1:17 PM

R115 - Must disagree. The books are marvellously written. The television series is a wonderful distillation, but it's still a distillation, and you miss the sensuality of Scott's descriptions of the Indian landscapes, among other things.

by Anonymousreply 117July 11, 2019 1:19 PM

R93 - I see you beat me to it in the mention of Parfitt on The Saint.

And that was slightly later when it went to colour. Catch some of the even earlier black and white episodes, and you understand how Moore got to be a star.

by Anonymousreply 118July 11, 2019 1:22 PM
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by Anonymousreply 119July 11, 2019 1:22 PM

Daddy Lannister was GORGEOUS in this

by Anonymousreply 120July 11, 2019 1:36 PM

I love the Raj Quartet. Lyrical is how I would describe it.

by Anonymousreply 121July 11, 2019 1:46 PM

Peggy Ashcroft was not a lesbian but was known for her adventurous sec life. I highly recommend John Gielgud’s gossipy memoirs about his life in the theater. He’s very discreet about his own life but blabbers about almost everyone he acted with.

by Anonymousreply 122July 11, 2019 1:50 PM

The best of the British TV drama output was not produced by the 'ITV Network' (which didn't exist back then) but by the company running the North-West of England region - Granada TV (based in Manchester).

The amalgamation of the regional UK networks into ITV has essentially ruined the whole production of UK drama.

Take a look at the Granada output on IMDB.

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by Anonymousreply 123July 11, 2019 2:49 PM

R123 Impressive. "Cracker" is amongst my favourites although it's not exactly a mood-enhancer. Pre-Hagrid Robbie Coltrane was fantastic.

by Anonymousreply 124July 11, 2019 2:59 PM

I saw it when I was in high school but didn't appreciate it. I should give it another watching

by Anonymousreply 125July 11, 2019 3:02 PM

R122 - Ashcroft allegedly had an affair with Paul Robeson whilst appearing at the Savoy Theatre with him as Desdemona, c. 1930. Her notices in the production brought her to the attention of John Gielgud.

by Anonymousreply 126July 11, 2019 3:21 PM

R121 - You encounter the calibre of the writing in the first paragraphs, where Scott describes the landscape after rain - sombre and delicate both.

by Anonymousreply 127July 11, 2019 3:38 PM

I just torrented this. Last summer I watched "I Claudius" based on Datalounge recommendations. I am looking forward to this one!

by Anonymousreply 128July 12, 2019 10:37 PM

Unfortunately, my first sexual experience was somewhat like that of Sarah Layton and Jimmy Clark with the genders reversed and no one getting knocked up. And the girl who tricked me into having sexual with her wasn’t as hot as Stuart Wilson.

by Anonymousreply 129July 13, 2019 8:47 AM

I had a crush on Charles Dance because as a teenager they used to play White Mischief on late night cable, may have to check this out

by Anonymousreply 130July 13, 2019 10:42 AM

Love Art Malik, but the poor man didn't age at all well.

by Anonymousreply 131July 13, 2019 11:49 AM

No mention of Judy Parfitt emerging regally once again in Maurice?

by Anonymousreply 132July 13, 2019 12:17 PM

Is this still on Netflix?

by Anonymousreply 133July 13, 2019 12:43 PM

My parents had the video. I jerked off many times to Art Malik's fine ass under a thin cloth as Tim Piggott Smith had him chained over a bench.

by Anonymousreply 134July 13, 2019 2:27 PM

This, R134?

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by Anonymousreply 135July 14, 2019 3:24 PM

Art Malik has aged well.

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by Anonymousreply 136July 14, 2019 3:27 PM

I agree with the person who said the novel is more like The Thorn Birds than War And Peace, but it’s clearly aiming for War And Peace.

The TV show is superior.

by Anonymousreply 137July 14, 2019 3:48 PM

I wish the actress who played Daphne Manners didn’t lean into her dorkiness so much. It made me hate her a little. Yeah, she fantasised about being Diana The Huntress when she was a galumphing clumsy thing, but she was played as too willfully naïve.

I would have preferred if Geraldine James or Judy Davis or Lindsay Duncan has the role.

by Anonymousreply 138July 14, 2019 4:01 PM

I agree, r138. I just started watching it.

by Anonymousreply 139July 15, 2019 1:33 AM

I’m going to give this a whirl. I don’t bormally like imperialist bullshit, but this seems like an honest look at what life was like during the Raj.

by Anonymousreply 140July 15, 2019 1:47 AM

Daphne was skinny and plain but she was more importantly an independent thinker and quite adventurous. Unlike the responsible Sarah Layton who effectively has to be the man of the house and left her sexual life lapse, Daphne had lost her virginity when working as an ambulance driver during the Blitz. She was curious about India and didn’t put fitting in above new experiences. She did her own thing by pursuing Hari Kumar.

Susan Woolridge’s looks weren’t problem but she played her as slightly unctuous and self-effacing to the extent that gorgeous Haro wouldn’t have found her interesting. All that shit with her glasses and the rest annoyed the fuck out of me.

by Anonymousreply 141July 15, 2019 7:09 AM

Because of this thread, I started watching. I agree that Susan Woolridge was a bit too dorky. Only after the rape incident did she gain strength and become more interesting .

And then she died.

by Anonymousreply 142July 15, 2019 1:02 PM

"Jewel in the Crown" and "A Passage to India" must've have filmed at the same time in India as there were some of the same actors in both.

by Anonymousreply 143July 15, 2019 5:42 PM

They also turn up in Gandhi.

by Anonymousreply 144July 15, 2019 5:50 PM

There is a small number of British actors who are recycled in every British tv show. All of them do terrible American accents. There must be a law that to play an American on British tv you have to have a shitty accent.

by Anonymousreply 145July 15, 2019 5:53 PM

Excellent series, excellent casting. Quality television.

by Anonymousreply 146July 15, 2019 6:11 PM

In my opinion, The Thorn Birds was not on the same planet with the Raj Quartet. Have to disagree with the poster upthread. The Thorn Birds was a soap opera. The Raj Quartet is literature - Colleen McCullough couldn't have come up with Scott's level of handling of English to save her life.

by Anonymousreply 147July 15, 2019 10:53 PM

Shallow observation: I am frothing at the mouth with lust for Lady Chatterjee’s haute colonial house. The grandfather clocks, the stuffed tigers, the ivory, it is all working for me. I realize this makes me an awful person but my GOD, it is making me weep with envy.

by Anonymousreply 148July 16, 2019 1:36 AM

I personally wanted to visit Kashmir and would if it didn't mean taking my life into my own hands.

The Jewel In The Crown has Scott's storytelling and thematic prowess on one hand - he handles a myriad of plots and characters - but also his leaden prose and uneven style. I'd compare him to George R. R. Martin - he aims for "lyricism", but a lot of it is bulky and unpleasant to read.

by Anonymousreply 149July 16, 2019 2:46 AM

I am watching it now and Merrick is so vile.

by Anonymousreply 150July 16, 2019 11:47 AM

So, where did all the Anglo-Indians go after Independence? Not the ones who came from England but those who were born and raised in India.

by Anonymousreply 151July 16, 2019 11:48 AM

People earlier in this thread are confused. The Leytons and Guy Perron were NOT upper class. They were upper MIDDLE CLASS. Ronald Merrick was LOWER middle class that's why they looked down on him.

by Anonymousreply 152July 16, 2019 12:17 PM

Is the elderly Russian man supposed to be a "homosexual?"

by Anonymousreply 153July 16, 2019 7:29 PM

R153-YES

by Anonymousreply 154July 16, 2019 7:32 PM

No love here for The Pallisers? It came out about the same time as I Claudius. 26 episodes in one season. Talk about ambitious! It is uneven but some fantastic stuff in there.

by Anonymousreply 155July 16, 2019 11:57 PM

[quote]Judy Parfitt played the biggest fucking cunt ever committed to screen.

Sometimes you have to be a high-riding bitch to survive.

by Anonymousreply 156July 17, 2019 12:25 AM

Why do they not display the spoons from Barbie? I am confused.

by Anonymousreply 157July 17, 2019 1:14 AM

For no other reason than Judy Parfitt is a cunt.

by Anonymousreply 158July 17, 2019 2:17 AM

R158 Barbie traveled to see a soldier for a reason I can’t remember. She walked in and saw cunt Mildred in bed with him. The biggest cunt ever was horny and had an affair with younger man!

by Anonymousreply 159July 17, 2019 3:13 AM

rrrrrrr

by Anonymousreply 160July 17, 2019 3:32 AM

[quote]Barbie traveled to see a soldier for a reason I can’t remember.

Hi, R158. I think it had to do with the spoons that R157 referred to. Besides refusing to display the spoons at Susan's wedding, Mildred actually returned them to Barbie.

At the wedding, there was a scene with Mabel and Barbie in a room where a lot of silver [the regimental silver?] was kept. Barbie, hoping to donate the spoons to that collection, went to see Kevin Coley, only to find him fucking Mildred.

It was a powerful scene, along with its follow-up, where a shame-faced Kevin Coley returned Barbie's hat.

by Anonymousreply 161July 17, 2019 4:39 AM

Sorry, I meant R159, not R158, in the previous reply.

by Anonymousreply 162July 17, 2019 4:41 AM

r161, that's right. I'm watching it right now. It's in episode 9. Mildred is a bitch no doubt, but apart from her treatment of Barbie, I understand the decisions she makes throughout the show.

by Anonymousreply 163July 17, 2019 5:00 AM

Apart from her decision to be a cunt.

by Anonymousreply 164July 17, 2019 7:53 AM

I'd like to see it made again just because I love it so much, but what would be the point?

It would be so woke and so awful.

by Anonymousreply 165July 17, 2019 1:21 PM

The actress who played Samantha on Foyle's War would have made a good Daphne Manners.

by Anonymousreply 166July 17, 2019 2:35 PM

Art Malik has the most beautiful dark brown eyes.

by Anonymousreply 167July 17, 2019 5:07 PM

R166 it’s a shame she’s 40.

by Anonymousreply 168July 17, 2019 5:54 PM

The Pallisers was overall great, with some splendid casting (Fabia Drake the main JITC overlap, but also all-time great comic actors like Peter Sallis and June Whitfield in serious parts), but for some reason they cast hideous men to play supposedly handsome ones: Burgo Fitzgerald, early on and above all the major character of Phineas Finn, supposedly this drop-dead gorgeous hunk all the women fall for, played by a squat, plain, deeply uncharismatic actor. However, Stuart Wilson as Ferdinand Lopez was splendid, though, unusually for him, not naked.

by Anonymousreply 169July 17, 2019 7:31 PM

I seriously need to watch this again. Since Game Of Thrones ended, I started watching Emmerdale, so I could do it some meatier fair.

by Anonymousreply 170July 18, 2019 12:46 PM

The entire series of Jewel In The Crown is available for free on youtube right now.

by Anonymousreply 171July 18, 2019 8:50 PM

Judy Parfitt starred on a sitcom called The Charmings: Snow White and Prince Charming, along with their kids were transported to modern-day Los Angeles. However, the evil stepmother also was transported along for the ride. Paul Winfield played The Sassy, obviously gay mirror mirror on the wall who was her foil.

by Anonymousreply 172July 18, 2019 9:08 PM

I'm one of the ones who was motivated to watch it based on this thread. Now that I've finished, I have mixed feelings. The Guy Perron character was the weakest part of the series. All of the other characters had multiple dimensions. Guy, however, did not, as many here have said. I am glad I watched it but I doubt I'll watch it again and again, like I watch "I Claudius."

by Anonymousreply 173July 18, 2019 11:03 PM

Here's my contemporary fantasy casting:

Netflix's The Jewel In The Crown

Wr: Peter Morgan

Dir: Ang Lee

Josh O’Connor - Ronald Merrick

Patsy Ferran - Daphne Manners

Riz Ahmed - Hari Kumar

Sophie Turner - Sarah Layton

Richard Madden - Guy Perron

Julie Walters - Barbie Batchelor

Dev Patel - Ahmed Kasim

Chrisoph Waltz - Count Bronowsky

Kate Winslet - Mildred Layton

Sophie Thompson - Aunt Fenny

Vanessa Redgrave - Ethel Manners

Luke Evans - Jimmy Clarke

Ben Whishaw - Sophie

by Anonymousreply 174July 19, 2019 7:55 AM

Sahib Josh stuffing his enormous cobra inside Riz's tight hairy hole is giving rise to a fever best alleviated with a gigantic gin and tonic.

by Anonymousreply 175July 19, 2019 7:14 PM

Make that a gin fizz r175

by Anonymousreply 176July 19, 2019 8:28 PM

Riz Ahmed is too ugly to play Hari Kumar.

by Anonymousreply 177July 21, 2019 10:19 AM

You can find it on Youtube.

by Anonymousreply 178July 21, 2019 10:52 AM

Riz Ahmed has the GAY stare in his eyes.

by Anonymousreply 179July 21, 2019 1:06 PM

R174 - Kate Winslet is too young to play Mildred Layton - my pick would be Imelda Staunton, and my pick for Jimmy Clark would be Tom Hughes. Evans is already too middle-aged for the local unit's Lothario.

Whishaw should play the aristocratic Jewish psychiatrist who helps Susan Layton after her breakdown.

by Anonymousreply 180July 21, 2019 2:24 PM

Nonsense, Kate Winslet is 44. For the 1940s that is more old enough to have daughters in their 20s and the right age to be resentful of her passed youth, blossoming daughters and being stuck out in the Indian sticks socialising with church ladies. She does cunty great as well.

Luke Evans is exactly the right combination of experienced and unctuous to talk a scrupulous virgin with an absent father into fucking him. It's a Mrs De Winter/Maxim type dynamic. Iron knickers Sarah would be used to giving the cute local military boys the heave ho but it's not a coincidence she gave it up to a cad.

by Anonymousreply 181July 21, 2019 5:04 PM

R191 - Judy Parfitt was was 49 when she played Mildred Layton - and looked like a middle-aged woman; the series was filmed in 1984 not 1884. Winslet is six years younger and doesn't look like a middle-aged woman by today's standards. Casting Winslet as Mildred Layton is exactly the kind of casting that actresses today are objecting to. They don't want to play angry uptight mothers of blossoming daughters.

And "iron-clad" Sarah actually wasn't - it was clear that she was, in fact, hot to trot - she was dying to get rid of her virginity and only a few shreds of her upbringing kept her back. She fell backwards like a ninepin when Clark got his hands on her (a part, by the way, that Stuart played frequently).

Evans is 40 and looks it. Clark was a young officer who was already the unit's town bull.

There was nothing of Maxim and the second Mrs De Winter about Sarah and Maxim - Maxim actually fell in love with his young bride, however badly he demonstrated it. He wasn't the town bull: he was a lonely, desperate man with a terrible secret looking for the innocence his first wife lacked. He married her, remember? You don't find out till the middle of the novel how much he loathed the first Mrs De Winter.

Clark was nothing but a smooth, shallow cad and Sarah was willing if hesitant.

We'll have to agree to disagree here.

by Anonymousreply 182July 21, 2019 6:07 PM

What’s the point of re-making? Excellent series.

by Anonymousreply 183July 21, 2019 6:23 PM

I agree, r183. If it were remade it would be a showcase for celebrities and there's enough of that in this world. I'd be more interested to see a continuation of the story focusing on the Indian characters during the partition, like Daphne's daughter and Hari Kumar.

by Anonymousreply 184July 21, 2019 6:26 PM

[quote] Casting Winslet as Mildred Layton is exactly the kind of casting that actresses today are objecting to. They don't want to play angry uptight mothers of blossoming daughters.

Winslet is a heavy smoker and looks every bit her age. She's being playing matriarchs for a while.

[quote]And "iron-clad" Sarah actually wasn't - it was clear that she was, in fact, hot to trot - she was dying to get rid of her virginity and only a few shreds of her upbringing kept her back. She fell backwards like a ninepin when Clark got his hands on her (a part, by the way, that Stuart played frequently).

It's not for lack of opportunity. Sarah fell for a slick worldly lounge lizard Jimmy and not a fresh-faced young idiot like Teddy, the kind of whom who would have been too happy to bang Sarah. She wanted a stronger man, hence her falling for equally worldly Guy.

[quote]There was nothing of Maxim and the second Mrs De Winter about Sarah and Maxim - Maxim actually fell in love with his young bride, however badly he demonstrated it. He wasn't the town bull: he was a lonely, desperate man with a terrible secret looking for the innocence his first wife lacked. He married her, remember? You don't find out till the middle of the novel how much he loathed the first Mrs De Winter.

The orphan Mrs De Winter, like the essentially fatherless Sarah, fell for the first masculine, strong, independent seeming man they could that. Neither of them went for cute, boyish twinks.

by Anonymousreply 185July 21, 2019 6:41 PM

Mildred, the real cunt and bitch. A perfect scene played by Peggy Ashcroft and Judy Parfitt. Mildred’s half hidden rage and the solution. Judy played the part to perfection. You saw her inner anger behind those rude lines.

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by Anonymousreply 186July 21, 2019 9:22 PM

OT, from Dolores Claiborne, but this line is DL. Enjoy!

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by Anonymousreply 187July 21, 2019 9:30 PM

This thread is a perfect example of why I love DL so much: the breadth of knowledge and the extensive discussions are the best.

by Anonymousreply 188July 21, 2019 9:33 PM

If Peter Morgan wrote it, and he loves his imported Americans, I could see him casting an American as Barbie or Mildred.

by Anonymousreply 189July 21, 2019 9:35 PM

R185 - The First Mrs De Winter was far more innocent than Sarah Layton, and you keep forgetting that Maxim loved her for her innocence. If there had been anything in common between these two relationships, Maxim would have seduced her rather than married her and brought her home as the new mistress of Manderley. He wasn't just strong and independent: he was a member of the British aristocracy, rich, fascinatingly moody, with a huge estate. Please. Jimmy Clark was the instrument Sarah was looking for, and she knew it. She never even told him he got her up the duff.

I doubt Sarah Layton was under any illusions that Clark was going to marry her. She knew exactly what she was doing and paid the price for it.

There is no equivalency here.

The Raj Quartet isn't a Gothic novel.

by Anonymousreply 190July 21, 2019 9:59 PM

Given that the 1984 production cost £6million pounds ( about £20million now ) with a cast of relatively unknown actors ( excluding Dame Peggy) a remake would have to be financed by Netflix.

Production costs do seem to have increased dramatically in the intervening time period. If you look at the estimated £5miilion an episode cost of producing ' The Crown ' a remake would be unlikely to include an all star cast.

by Anonymousreply 191July 21, 2019 11:21 PM

No one said it is. The fact remains that Jimmy Clark wasn't the local twink copper, he was, sexually and socially, someone who could behave like a sexual teacher and semi-patriarchal masculine figure. She's not going to fuck the equivalent of Teddy. She waited for an "experience".

by Anonymousreply 192July 22, 2019 3:00 AM

I didn't read the book, but Clark seemed like the irrestible asshole. Sarah was well aware of what she was doing by sleeping with him. It was the best way to lose her virginity. You could see the calculations as she made them in that scene. I don't think she looked at him as a teacher.

by Anonymousreply 193July 22, 2019 3:06 AM

I lost interest after Hari & Daphne. I didnt find stiff upper lip Sarah interesting and I thought both Barbie & Judy Parfitt were OTT. Merrick was a mustache-twirling-type villain.

by Anonymousreply 194July 22, 2019 7:48 PM

It was a one night stand with a cad. Teacher?! She spent one night with him. What do you think Clark did, pull out the Kama Sutra? She wanted to lose her virginity but couldn't say so; he sensed it and obliged; teach her - he didn't even have the brains or courtesy to wear a rubberr or pull out. She wasn't a paid whore: she was the fucking Captain's daughter! He was a corrupt shite.

Maxim gave the First Mrs De Winter what she had never had: a name, status, romance, wealth, privilege. I've always thought it interesting that the first Mrs De Winter has a first name but not a last name or a face, and the second Mrs De Winter doesn't even have a first or last name until she marries Maxim - we see both women only through the eyes of others.

Welladay, not going to argue it any longer. I simply do not agree with the comparison.

Back to TJITC, I thought one of the most touching moments was when a hysterical Daphne starts to sing "For he is an Englishman," referring to Hari's determination to protect her by sacrificing himself honourably, when a visiting friend shrewdly comes close to the truth: that Hari's refusal to say where he was indicated that he was protecting someone. Hari's whole dilemma is that his name might be Kumar and his skin dusky, but raised in England and educated at better schools than Merrick could have hoped to set foot in, the Indian - to the English a "black boy" is an Englishman to the core.

by Anonymousreply 195July 22, 2019 8:52 PM

I'm listening to the BBC Radio adaptation, it's a good link between the TV show and the book. Geraldine James plays Mildred Layton!

by Anonymousreply 197July 24, 2019 9:57 PM

r174 All good except for fug Riz

by Anonymousreply 198August 1, 2019 10:24 PM

R187

That line has absolutely got to be engraved on Parfitt's tombstone. No getting around it.

by Anonymousreply 199August 1, 2019 10:29 PM

Brilliant show that improves on the book.

by Anonymousreply 200October 25, 2019 5:19 PM

R186

Watched Jewel In The Crown again several weeks ago, and yes, Mildred Layton is a high riding bitch, but that scene felt much of her rage against Barbie Batchelor was warranted.

Miss. Bachelor already had worn out her welcome with ML who only tolerated Barbie because of Mabel Layton.

Barbie Bachelor broke every rule (then and still today) to push, lie, scheme, order and otherwise gain access to viewing Mable Layton's corpse not only without the family's permission, but before it had been prepared post autopsy.

Upon seeing a glimpse of Mabel's body Barbie convinces herself that the woman's soul is in torment and steams off to see Mildred. Again lying to ward sister Barbie barges in on Mrs. Layton making demands about shipping a corpse halfway across India in middle of summer.

Mildred Layton already had enough on her plate; husband in POW camp, a now deceased step-mother of her husband, whose death by the way sent newly married young widowed daughter into premature labor. Now Barbie arrives interfering into Layton family business where she shouldn't.

If Mable Layton wanted to be buried with her husband she would have left instructions. She certainly had no difficulty revising her final will a few months prior to death leaving Barbie an annuity.

Given their past recent history don't know what Barbie was thinking by going to see Mildred in that manner. She's lucky not to have gotten a slap or kicked in the rear.

Women like Barbie Batchelor were a common device in British fiction well as being found in real life. With no husband, children or family from middle age onward they attach themselves to various causes or even another person to give their lives purpose.

In some ways Barbie represents the failure of British Raj in that she didn't make much of a difference as a missionary, as Britain didn't with their rule. Well not a difference in what either Barbie or GB believed at start of their cause.

by Anonymousreply 201October 26, 2019 10:11 AM

R195

Hari Kumar's interrogation in prison (as part of Lady Manners efforts to have him freed), was one of the saddest things to watch.

He's telling what Merrick did to him, and the good English gentlemen military officer won't have a word. Orders it stricken from record and accuses HK of lying. All HK can say is "i'm sorry, I thought you came to hear the truth...).

Things go downhill from there when HK is informed of Daphne Manner's death. It hit home like a punch in the gut.

by Anonymousreply 202October 26, 2019 10:19 AM
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