Elizabeth ! or Mary Queen of Scotts

I meant Elizabeth I but exclamation points are always fun so either way.

Mary was sophisticated; Elizabeth was white trash

I’m called the Virgin Queen. Unmarried. I have no master. Childless. I am a mother to my people. God gave my strength to bare mighty freedom. I am your Queen. I am myself.

Elizabeth. Mary was a Catholic whore.

Mary! She liked the cock, she was educated, witty, loved dancing and parties, spoke several languages and could wear the hell out of a black velvet dress.

Apparently, Liz had the same attributes R5 (except she didn't go in for black and her taste for cock is a little less obvious).

Even though Mary married a gay dude--which is what I aspire to, Elizabeth had more stuff.

And I need more stuff.

Phhhht. Elizabeth I all day long. Smarter, stronger, a better and more successful queen, she was everything that Mary wasn't.

Mary was a fool and a terrible queen.

Mary is the great great great great great great great great great great great grandmother of Elizabeth II.

True, Elizabeth II's connection to the Stuarts, Tudors and Plantagenets is through Mary.

[quote] Scotts

Oh, dear.

Jesus Fucking Christ, r10. Elizabeth's father was Henry VIII, Henry Tudor. Where do you get your facts, Bubblegum wrappers?

Elizabeth I had no issue, R10. Elizabeth II can only be an indirect descendant (as she is of Henry VIII, because Mary is descended from Henry VIII's sister); she's a direct descendant of Mary, Queen of Scots. I don't think R10 was saying that QEII had no relationship to Elizabeth I, but her relationship with Mary is stronger.

R12 with the little detail of QEI being childless, how do you think QEII is descended from QEI?

Queen Elizabeth II is the direct descendant of the first Tudor King, Henry VII, and his wife Elizabeth of York, whose marriage ended the Wars of the Roses. They were the parents of Henry VIII and grandparents of Elizabeth I. They were also the great-grandparents of Mary Queen of Scots, from whom Elizabeth II is a direct descendant.

Henry VII and Elizabeth of York's elder daughter Margaret Tudor married King James IV of Scotland. Their son, James V of Scotland (first cousin of Elizabeth I of England) married the French Princess Marie de Guise, and their only child was Mary, Queen of Scots. Mary's son James VI of Scotland succeeded Elizabeth I to became James I, the first Stuart king of the newly united Great Britain.

And Helen Mirren has award for each of them

Elizabeth, hands down.

If Mary had gotten her way and taken the English throne, it would have been a disaster. She was a great character in the soap opera of her own life, but a lousy leader with truly shitty judgment. Elizabeth was her superior in every way as a queen except in the matter of an heir.

Mary was cute but Lizzie was a bobcat in the sack.

Mary lost her throne and her head. Elizabeth founded an empire. There's no question who wins this.

Helen has awards for playing both Elizabeth's; she's never played Mary Queen of Scots to my knowledge (she's far too plain, if you ask me).

No contest. QEI's reign was called the Elizabethan Age for a reason. Under her rule, the arts in England flourished (Shakespeare, anyone?). More importantly, she inherited a virtually penniless kingdom and by the time she died, England was among the richest and most powerful in Europe. Spain never recovered from the English navy destroying its Armada. Mary was considered prettier, but she was spoiled, foolish, lacked guile, and was dumb as a box of wigs.

Why did Mary lose her head? Because a letter claimed she was going to kill Lizzie The First? Was she framed ?

divorced. beheaded. died. divorced. beheaded. survived.

No, R22. The dumb bitch was in on the plan to kill Bess. She was undone by QEI's spymaster Walsingham who set her up by allowing her coded letters to be smuggled out of her prison which showed her support for the plot. Mary believed Elizabeth a heretic and a bastard (born while Catherine of Aragorn was still alive) and therefore not the rightful monarch. Mary saw herself as rightful Queen of England.

I like Mary, Queen of Scottsdale.

Anne. Such a lesbian she was fat and had a cane. Also great supporter of the Anglican Church, of which she was head.

I like Mary simply because she had syphilis of the nose; that's amazing!

Did her twink husband, Lord Darney, give it to her, R27?

In many ways, we are all like Elizabeth I.

Elizabeth. Mary was vain and entitled. Elizabeth was cunning and effective. Very much the Englishwoman.

[quote]Why did Mary lose her head? Because a letter claimed she was going to kill Lizzie The First? Was she framed ?

She died because she was in the way. Her guilt or innocence is irrelevant. She's not the only one to get that treatment from ER, but she was royalty and so Elizabeth was very conflicted about snuffing her. She ultimately decided to do it but to pretend others had tricked/misled her into it.

Mary's three marriages were disasters. She of course could not be blamed for her first marriage, to King Francis II of France, but marrying Henry Stuart, Lord Darnley and James Hepburn, Earl of Bothwell cost her the Scottish throne.

Too bad there weren't 12 step programs for that in those days, R32.

Mary. Elizabeth is an overrated bitch.

Elizabeth really showed her true colors when she knighted filthy trash slave trader Francis Drake. Cunt is cancelled! No wonder Jane Austen despised her.

We are nay amoosed

....

Okay, men. Time to retire your gay cards and return those toaster ovens!

Gay men shout, proclaim, mutter, or exclaim, "Mary!" Not fucking "Elizabeth!"

First I must watch this film, and THEN I will decide

[quote]Mary's son James VI of Scotland succeeded Elizabeth I to became James I, the first Stuart king of the newly united Great Britain.

No, the first monarch of Great Britain was Queen Anne, when the Acts of Union took effect. James I was both king of England and separately king of Scotland (as James VI). Great Britain was not formed until 1707.

R40 technically true but James called himself King of Great Britain. And he never went back to Scotland again IIRC.

He could call himself the queen of Sheba, but it wouldn't make it so.

Well, he was a queen!

R43 He was a top though, Villiers called himself his “wife”

Elizabeth all the way! She was a fantastic politician and the most brilliant woman of her era, and many eras before and after!

While Mary was 200 kinds of fool. She knew shit about politics, she knew shit about Scotland and didn't care to know more, she blindly insisted on her royal prerogatives while having no understanding of power, she thought a monarch could marry for love without causing a political disaster and didn't even get the "love" part right, and worst of all, when the shit hit the fan she was stupid enough to run to Elizabeth for help instead of the French. Why the Hell would Elizabeth want to bump a protestant off the throne of Scotland, to put Mary back on it??? Why the hell did Mary think she would? Gawd, Mary should have been lobotomized and propped on the throne, for the people to look at while people with brains did the actual ruling.

My dear Elizabeth, you're such a career maker! Er, I mean a country maker.