How horrible is it to live in NYC?

With Rent control/stabalization, landlords have EVERY INCENTIVE to evict tenants so they can raise the rent. The worst landlords make the most money. Seriously.

Nice landlords get screwed.

Without rent control, all a landlord wants is a full building with good tenants.

1) Pay the rent on time.

2) Don't destroy the apartment.

3) Don't annoy the other tenants/neighbors.

And if you manage to follow these basic rules, landlords will go out of their way to keep you as a tenant.

I have a friend who just moved there and the brokers he dealt with were awful. He finally lucked out and found a good no-fee place, but in general it seems like you can expect to get screwed over. Oh, and the most maddening thing is that the stock comeback when you ask about anything unreasonable is "welcome to New York."

R1 - did you read the link? Landlords are claiming buildings are vacant when they aren't. It has nothing to do with whether or not tenants pay their rent on time,

I've read the NY Times for national news for 30 years. I've seen the articles on what landlords do and what tenants do. Why live there? I grew up in NJ - basically at 45 minute train ride or bus ride into the city.

Why live in NYC?

It's a place for 20-somethings to socialize, get laid and find someone to leave the city with.

If you're over 35, there really is no reason to live there. Unless you're a banker, it's too expensive to have any grown-up quality of life.

You're professionally washed up in NYC at 40, so you're advised to make your escape before then.

I can give you my reason.

I leave my apartment. I make a right out the door.

I walk a few blocks west. There, in front of me, is the entrance to the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

I've loved my city all my life and I always will. I'm 51.

R5 - you have to know that argument really doesn't make sense.

For example I leave my apartment and walk three blocks east - and I am at a farmers market where I can buy produce and meant grown within 30 miles of where I live.

I can walk one block west to an art galley where I can not only see the art but also talk to the artists.

More importantly I can take a vacation, an since I don't live in Manhattan, I can visit major art museums across the world.

On the other hand I lived in NJ for ten years - and took a bus into the city and visited the Met. Whenever I felt like it, because neither my job or rent were killing me.

I don't understand why the nice things in your neighborhood mean I can't appreciate what's special in mine.

I've lived in NYC for 20 years now I'm 45 it has become unaffordable for all my friends...simply nobody can afford to live here anymore and the city will really feel the outcome in 5 years as the middle class is being pushed out. Only the rich can live here and it's a shame! Even the boroughs outside NYC rents have doubled since 2005. As great as the city is....it's not worth what one has to pay to live here! It has become a horrible place to live with homeless people everywhere...the novelty and how fabulous it was is gone!

The problem is that, unlike in the past, unless you're rich, you can't move into an apartment you like and hope to stay there for a nice long while anymore. Now you can expect to have to move once every couple of years or maybe even once a year -- that's how much and how high the rents go up in the city. And I for one hate the idea of having to live with a roommate that I don't want -- as so many people do -- just to be able to make the rent.

I've lived here in NYC for 34 years, I'm 52. Most of those years I've lived in rent-stabilized apartments, and never suffered anything like this story, although I am aware of many who have. I do not feel "unwelcome" here, as it has been my home my entire adult life. Yes, a vastly safer city has caused hundreds of thousands of people to want to move here and live here, and rents are incredibly expensive. I currently live in an "80/20" apartment, a real attempt to have more affordable units to rent in every neighborhood, and it is a big success, I think. Still, change is inevitable, and at some point historically the pendulum swings the other way, or new solutions pop up.

The daily grind of living here in the 80s-early 90s caused so many to flee. Everything was broken- never to be fixed, expensive (Yes! Even then!) filthy, and dangerous. I laugh at those rhapsodizing about "The old Times Square" as if they EVER set foot near it, unless to see a Broadway show! Hilarious.

With so much to offer as far as our finest resource, PEOPLE, I'd say living in NYC has given me the best education, and worldview I could hope to have. Come here for a few years, and see if it is the place for you, and your dreams. Perhaps it isn't, but at least you'll really know, and have memories for a lifetime.

[quote][R5] - you have to know that argument really doesn't make sense.

It makes perfect sense for someone who , like r5, values living within walking distance of major cultural landmarks. Obviously, that's not a priority for everyone. If you don't think anything about NYC would make it worth the expense , sleazy landlords, etc. for YOU, then don't move there. It's not a decision that has one right answer for everybody.

New York is New York, the appeal is obvious. Whether it is for you depends on whether you are okay with paying a ridiculous sum of money to live in a crappy tiny apartment. As a poster upthread said it is about "quality of life" living conditions. Actually having some space, a yard and things like that. If so the city sucks, if you just want to be in the midst of everything, then there is no better place to be.

r11, r12 I thought the point some people were making is that you don't actually have that choice, i.e. everyone but high net worth people are being forced out. It's not a matter of being willing to struggle, it's beyond that now.

R13, that's the problem precisely. It's not about how much you're willing to sacrifice to live here. Now it's just if you're not rich and beautiful and successful, get out. You're not wanted here.

I love Manhattan but anytime I walk through neighborhoods like Tribeca, Soho or the Village, it's annoying because all you see are trustafarians with their Gucci this, Prada that, and rows and rows of overpriced boutiques made only for the Kims and Kanyes. And they all look at you like you don't belong here and, the way it's going, they're right, you don't.

Can't believe all of the peasants on here who are saying they can't afford to live in the city. really, If you are poor so poor you can't afford the rent, we don't want to associate with you anyway.

I agree! It's become a boring Disneyland for one percenters and I have to laugh at people claiming that NYC is suitable for the 20-30 crowd, not in 2015. You already have be established and moneyed to relocate to NYC to live comfortably.

Or go to Hong Kong, r10. It is a much more world class city in every category and a much bigger "test" than NYC could ever hope to be. Living in NYC is no different than living in any other big city in the U.S.

I've only visited NYC, never lived there. I like the city, but I have to wonder if you're not rich, is it really enjoyable if you're struggling just to pay your rent and don't even have any savings because you're too busy trying to keep up with the cost of everything going up? It seems like there are so many people in their 40's in NYC who don't even own anything or have any savings because the cost of everything is so bad.

Where have the smart but not rich people gone to live, when in other decades they would have lived in Manhattan? Is it New Jersey? The ideal situation is to have friends, conversation and environment where there is the possibility to meet like-minded people. Are the smart, but not rich people, just isolated now, without an intellectually nourishing milieu?

Did you also read in the article, where it says, the building in question is also getting complaints by tenants and the permits ARE filed properly and the tenets are scamming? It works both ways. I worked for a hotel company in the early 00s and they paid for me to live in the Times Square district while I opened their hotels.

It was fuckin' awesome. I cried when I had to leave. I could never afford to live there, but it is unlike any other place.

NYC needs to lose the rent control and let the market stabilize. Other cities like Boston have done this and it worked out after a few years.

If you can afford it and you enjoy big cities then it's a fantastic place to live. It has everything, art, music, theater, fashion, restaurants, interesting people from everywhere, just like other great cities in the world.

If you can't afford it, don't live there. You'll be endlessly unhappy spending your time bitching about what you can't have and ranting about people who have more than you.

[quote]You're professionally washed up in NYC at 40, so you're advised to make your escape before then.

Oh, bullshit. I know plenty of NYers who didn't start making bank until they were over 40.

[quote]Living in NYC is no different than living in any other big city in the U.S.

This is a bold faced life. New York isn't even my favorite American city but there is no other city in America like New York.

[quote]I currently live in an "80/20" apartment

A what?

I've lived in NYC for 25 years and it currently sucks donkey dick. It lost all it's charm around 2005 or so. If you aren't very rich then dont even think about moving here. I used to love this place but I absolutely hate everything about it outside of the metro system. I NEVER want to live in a city where I have to own and drive a car, but the only other city in the US that I've found where you DON'T have to have a car and is less expensive is Chicago. I'd like to move there and start a new adventure and leave this fucking dump of a city, but I don't know anyone there, I'm over 40, and I hear the crime rate is much worse. I do at least feel safe in NYC, and I don't even live in a great neighborhood.

seriously r5- the fucking MMA ? THAT keeps you here? puhlease you old wind bag.

[quote]I've lived in NYC for 25 years and it currently sucks donkey dick. It lost all it's charm around 2005 or so. If you aren't very rich then dont even think about moving here.

Sad. If it's lost all it's charm (which I agree that it has) and it's ridiculously expensive for you to keep living there, then you need to get out. Do you own your apartment? Do you have any savings? If you're answer is no to either of those questions, you need to leave. You don't want to end up old with absolutely nothing to your name. How will you keep paying to live there once you retire if it's already hard now?

Stop it! You mean you only have one home and have live there year round?!!! Just stop it right now, you're joking right?

R25 - the crime isn't anything to worry about in Chicago. Most of the crime is on the far west and south sides - places you'll never go. It's like complaining about the crime in South Bronx when you live in Manhattan. It's just not really an issue.

It's plenty safe.

r25, FWIW, I left NYC in 2003 at age 45 for Chicago after having lived in NYC for 25 years. I stayed in Chicago for 10 years and really enjoyed it. The crime is mostly limited to the south and the west sides (although I worked for CPS so I was in those neighborhoods daily). It's really a lovely city and has great theatre and museums. That said, I still missed NYC. I now live in DC and go up to NYC 3-4 times per month. BTW, I never learned to drive and DC is very public transportation-friendly. I'll be moving back to NYC in 2017. Sometimes it's good to take a break from a city. However, if you don't own your home in NY, it might be unaffordable when you decide to return.

thanks r29 and r30 I have heard great things about Chicago , and compared the rents , and I could afford to live in a good neighborhood- forgot which ones by name, but a much better neighborhood than my current one- West Harlem. I prefer colder weather , so that isn't a problem. Does it feel much smaller than NYC? I'm from Va. and have spent a lot of time in DC, but could never live there- it's a small town disguised by a big city look and feel.

I've only lived here since early 2011, but I like that nearly everything I enjoy is within a 40-minute subway ride. I'm from the San Francisco Bay Area and I hate driving, so that's a plus. I've moved twice if you don't count the two months I was in an AirBnB when I first moved here.

I'm currently renting a house in Queens with roommates, but we all get along and have similar interests. Our landlord is a little strange, but tolerable and lives nearby. He just raised the rent more than I'd like, but we re-signed the lease for two years, so at least it won't go up in that time. And I'm still paying less than I was when I lived in Hell's Kitchen, where we had one of those shady landlords whose second google search result is a blog that a bunch of angry tenants created.

Anyway, on the whole, NYC is safe, there are good places to eat, stuff to do, I have a lot of friends here, and there are more jobs in my field here for me than in California. I don't think I've abandoned California all together (though something to consider is that nearly all of my relatives have hit retirement age within the past 10 years or so), but I don't see myself moving back there anytime soon. At least I hope I don't. Maybe I'll go back when the drought is over and they've recovered from the next big earthquake I hope to avoid.

R31, where in West Harlem are you? I do like Hamilton Heights, which has become pretty nice over the last few years (and unfortunately more expensive). I left when my landlord sold the building and the new owner wanted to jack my rent up $500. I then moved to 137 and Lenox, which was awful, and I couldn't get out of there fast enough (I paid my lease off 3 months early just to get out - that's how much I hated it there). I now live in Hell's Kitchen, which is great, though I doubt I stay here very long. It just depends, as always, on how much my rent goes up come renewal time next May (plus I never expect to stay anywhere for very long anymore in Manhattan).

[quote]seriously [R5]- the fucking MMA ? THAT keeps you here? puhlease you old wind bag.

Oh you poor thing. That's so sad.

r33- i'm in Hamilton Heights. More specifically Sugar Hill. I call it West Harlem, don't care about the specifics really. Anyway, I started out in NYC in '91 living in Chelsea until 2013, then got priced out and moved to the East Village. Years later got priced out of EV and moved to Williamsburg and HATED IT, so I moved uptown. I definitely like Harlem better than Williamsburg- much more convenient and a much prettier landscape (Williamsburg is fucking HIDEOUS with all those little shack like dwellings , ugh!!!).

R31 - It's definitely a big city but yes, it is smaller than NYC. I can't think of too many cities that has the energy of NY all the time - maybe Hong Kong or Tokyo? So, yes it's going to feel a bit slower - but almost every city feels that way.

Chicago is about 5-8 degrees colder in Jan/Feb than NYC, but it's actually warmer in April and October than NY. Overall, the average temperature differential between NY and Chicago for the entire year is....one degree F.

I used to live in NYC - and it's exciting. But my quality of life is so much better in Chicago. And it's so much cheaper - I can afford to take 3-4 winter getaways to get away from the cold.

I don't understand how people in NY can afford to move so often when there are the broker fees to pay - and the limited amount of stock. It's so stressful just getting a place, I can't imagine having to do that every year or every other year. Fuck that.

I've really lucked out in that I've never needed a broker. Hopefully that can continue.

r35 I agree with you about how ugly Williamsburg is. I have friends who live in Wburg and I go out there often, and in spite of all the gentrification I still think it looks like a fucking dump.

R25, I agree with you except I lived in SF from 1988-2008 and got around fine with out a car. Although it DID help to have friends with cars, for weekend escapes.

Why in Hell would you want to get ripped off serious by NYC's greedster landlords? They'll take most of your income and give you a cramped hovel to live in. That city is a huge cesspool of human waste. It stinks. Look at the color of the water surrounding it. It's shitwater brown. Where do you think the shit and piss of all the millions who dwell there is going? It's like living in a toilet there. You'll be robbed of your income, the air and water is bad, your living quarters will be deplorable, traffic is a nightmare and that city's full of the craziest weirdos on the planet who'd cut your throat for a quarter. Stay the Hell where you are and quit with the foolish notion you'll be happy there. The only reason most gays struggle to live there is their constant need for cock. That cesspool is full of diseased cock. But you'll find fresh cock on the East Coast, like in Maine or Shrewsbury. If you want to taste diseased sperm, then move to NYC and you'll sicken and die.

[quote] Overall, the average temperature differential between NY and Chicago for the entire year is....one degree F.

That's not taking into account the wind chill factor, which actually makes it feel at least 10 degrees colder there, on average.

Rent stabilization means that you can put down roots, stay in one apartment and not get priced out.

Since moving out of NYC I have not been able to stay in the same apartment more than 3 years because the rent goes up and I get priced out. I thought of buying, but with condo assessments, 100% insurance increases, and property tax jumps, it seems like owners are in the same boat.

I have not had the same security that I had in NYC. And I have to drive.

Who cares where someone chooses to live? If you like it, that's fine. All of these," You are no one unless you live here" posts are so silly. Some people choose to live in a place where there is a lot of excitement; but they pay for it. Others feel that affordability is paramount. Those who mock are insecure.

That's not annoyance, R14, that's jealousy.

I've always thought the true strength of New York is the legend of New York. I've visited many times, although I have never lived there. It's a city on steroids... just more of everything any big city has to offer but no more than its peer mega cities elsewhere in the world. Visually, I find New York pretty dull but I've never known a city hold more people in its thrall than New York.

No washers and dryers in your home? Unreal

Right now I live on the east coast, but I am in a financial position to move anywhere I want. I really love NYC, but don't want my dog to suffer there.

I was thinking about philly, as it's a a relatively short train ride to NYC. And I'd be able to go up a few days out of the month. Or possibly NJ?

Anyone have other suggestions?

West Philadelphia is very dog friendly, R46, presumably because Penn's vet school is there. It seems everyone in the 30s and 40s (streets) has one

Not horrible at all. I have a great life here.

[quote]seriously [R5]- the fucking MMA ? THAT keeps you here? puhlease you old wind bag.

The tragedy of your life is that you clearly don't know how vapid, shallow and provincial you really are. I'm embarrassed on your behalf for writing such an unintentionally revealing response.

r35, I also lived in Hamilton Heights just west of Convent Garden. I bought my condo (not coop) in 1998 for $35k and it just appraised for $525k. It's ridiculous really. I've been renting it out since I left but have given the current tenants two years notice that I'm coming back. I like the diversity of HHts and it's relatively quiet there. In Chicago, I lived at Dearborn and Maple (a rental), had a lake view from a high floor and paid less than $1k/month. The rent now is twice that but that area has really nice units. Also consider Oak Park where many of my friends live(d). OP is very diverse and you don't need a car if you get a place near the L. OP is a little Portlandia-ish at times, however -- just don't buy into the OP myth and you'll be fine. BTW I knew no one when I moved to either NYC or Chicago but I volunteered with several groups and made good friends through that.

Good luck to you wherever you wind up.

r44 For me, it's not resentment or jealousy, it's not just the real creatives being priced out. (They can live in LIC or other proximate areas and commute to their galleries; it's not the 50s golden age, but it's workable.) It's the lack of cultural investment.

The 1% did not get that way by being creative and contributing to society, art and culture, or supporting it along the way. They got there by virtue of birth and by massive, elaborate international financial frauds. Many major NYC real estate deals that changed the landscape were simply money laundering, tax avoidance, etc. and the owners don't even live here, let alone participate in the city's arts/culture.

It seems to have reached a tipping point where the reason people are attracted to NYC no longer exists, and the city is just moving forward on inertia. The august institutions like the Met will continue to feed the culture, but the new creativity is gone.

"creatives"???

I think that kind of language is part of the problem. It turns those in the thinking professions into frilly little things.

I have to admit it. I don't live in NY and have no desire to. I find the frequent posts about how wonderful it is to be amusing, but live and let live.

I do, however strange it sounds, worry about some of those posters who seem to be spending a disproportionate percentage of their income on renting places that frequently sound rather dismal. It's not the places described so much as it is a concern for what happens to those posters when their work life comes to an end and they are no longer making a good salary. If rents are continually going up, and people move frequently as a result, what do these posters see as the last stop on the line? If they have not arranged to have a place where they can live in some security and knowledge that they can't be thrown out in the street, namely a place that they own, what happens at the end of their lives? Old age and even late middle age brings its own set of problems and the idea of worrying about finding and maintaining a place to live in the midst of these problems can be a nightmare.

Unless you are planning on dying young, it will happen.

Sorry to be such a downer, but I honestly worry about some of you.

If you are in a stabilized apartment the rent goes up very little. If you have been there for 20 or 30 years, it is very reasonable.

Sad part is theater has not been exciting here for YEARS!

r54 what about the real estate value? I thought the current problem was building owners in prime areas selling the whole building, where there are limited protections for even stabilized tenants, especially if it's a teardown.

Also, since renting in NYC can be so much cheaper than owning, it is easier to save. When I lived in NYC I was able to squirrel away a lot. I moved though, and car costs make saving pretty difficult. I would have more savings if I had stayed in New York.

I remember going back to visit a few years ago. THe renters were saving toward retirement. Thoes who owned ...not so much.

[quote]No washers and dryers in your home? Unreal

What the fuck? Can you really be that provincial? You must live in the middle of nowhere

That is not some New York thing man. Tons of apartments and other rentals might be units where you don't have a washer and in dryer in your home. Sometimes there will be a laundry area for the apartment complex to use, sometimes that means you have to go to a laundromat (why do you think those exist?). This is true everywhere, except I guess small towns?

R56, I no longer live in NYC and they did gut stabilization. But there are still a number of stabilized units out there and the new owners of buildings must still abide by the law. And that really does keep rent increases reasonable.

Here in Miami, your rent can go up 20% or 30%. I really appreciate NYC real estate law now.

r58 as someone who lives in a Canadian cow town (at least we have a university), it is considered extremely low rent to go to a laundromat. Most of the people who go are lower class, as the college has laundry rooms in their housing, decent buildings have basement units and so do most house rentals.

My sister goes and it's populated with methheads, mentally ill and welfare/disability mums who are all too happy to tell you their health details at loud volume.

R41 - New York is actually windier than Chicago, so that's not true. Boston is windier than Chicago - so is San Francisco. You know the windy city got its name from politicians, right? Not because of the wind.

I've lived here for 8 years and I'm beginning to tire of it. Made a career change and I'm fresh out of grad school and looking for work in a tough industry. I have managed to find a lovely, kind, decent man in this cesspool that I'm now engaged to. There are some professional things that I'd like to achieve in the next 18-24 months, but I've been hinting STRONGLY to him that I'm ready to give another city a try.

The older I get (33 now) I realize that the things that I want and value in life I simply cannot have in this city because I wasn't born wealthy and my income right now is working class at best. I've managed to make my income work and do things like FIP, restaurants, broadway, etc (i.e. all the things the "wealthy" do but at a fraction of the cost) but I'd really like to live somewhere where I don't have to pay an arm and a leg to have a decent place.

I tire of all the hood rats and homeless people that run the streets everywhere that everyone has just learned to ignore and avoid, and I also tire of the rich kids that stomp around this city like Carrie and Mr Big in their 20's/30's. I'd like to live in a place where normal middle-class people can exist and not live like dogs, and NYC is not that place.

R2, did you read my post? It had nothing to do with whether tenants pay their rent on time. I was just commenting on how landlords/brokers tend to screw people over more often than not, which was something mentioned in the OP.

It sure is easy to sleep around in NYC. So many to select from. I doubt I would be able to meet 7 or 8 cute men a week if I were living somewhere else.

Also the Chicago winter is much colder than the New York winter. I don't know anyone is trying to pretend otherwise. In the link there are a lot of measures of US cities with the worst winters. Chicago is on everyone of them, NYC is on none.

NYC is a fine place to live when you have the money to live reasonably securely and comfortably and have some fun too. And save for retirement. If you have all that, it's a blast at any age.

Those of you upthread complaining that NYC has become a Disneyland for young rich kids -- let me give you the West Coast version: San Francisco. Same idea. We live in Northern California and visit SF less and less. It's become a playground for trust fund babies and overnight tech jillionaires. Everyone else is being priced out. So you've got the rich, with all their pricey boutiques and yoga classes and newly built condo towers, and you've got the homeless shitting on the BART escalators.

In between, you have the temporary clusters of artsy young people who live 8 to an apartment because they're in love with the idea of city life. And then they grow up, get fed up and leave.

Like NY, SF has become unaffordable for nice middle class people. At some point, that destroys the backbone of the place.

Yep, NY and SF are very similar in their current housing situation. Both have become playgrounds for the rich where it is getting nearly impossible for other people to survive. I know London is the same way.

R53 I worry about these people as well. I'm worried they will end up old and penniless because they spent their lives just trying live in NYC.

[quote]If you are in a stabilized apartment the rent goes up very little. If you have been there for 20 or 30 years, it is very reasonable.

But how many people are in a rent stabilized apartment? Not many.

I've also lived here for 25 years now. It definitely currently sucks donkey dick. The climb in real estate is outrageous and unsustainable, and that is simply a fact. NO ONE can actually afford to live here, no matter what they tell you. NYC is full of liars and strivers. It's basically a third world country, especially the dreadful subway. Who takes taxis anymore?

But, where else to go if you want to live in a city in this country? Chicago? SF? LA? God forbid Houston? Pfft. Provincial backwaters filled with cultureless Philistines. No thanks.

R69, Just about everyone I know in NYC lives in a stabilized apartment.

Unless I am mistaken, every rental unit in a building built before with more than 6 units and which rents for less than $2,700 is stabilized. That is a pretty hefty percent of NYC housing stock.

[quote] The only reason most gays struggle to live there is their constant need for cock.

HAHAHHAHAHAHHAHA

Truth!

The moment an apartment hits $2,500, it can be destabilized, and with the current increases the vast majority of stabilized apartments will cease to exist within two decades.

I've lived in NYC (Manhattan) pretty much all my life. I've been pretty much all over the world and US and am able to spend time out of the city any time I want. I consider myself extremely lucky to live on the Upper West Side of Manhattan at this point in my life in one of the greatest cities in the world- the arts, commerce, science, and diversity thrive on one of the world's great cities. OP, if you have to ask this question, it suggests NYC is wasted on you.

[quote]It's basically a third world country, especially the dreadful subway.

Speaking of the NYC subway, why does the "best city in the world" have a subway that looks like it belongs in a third world country? It's hideous. All those tax dollars from millionaires and billionaires and they can't update that hideous subway system?

tax dollars from millionaires and billionaires? hahahahahhahahah

Yeah, millionaires and billionaires paying their share of taxes. That really is hilarious.

Actually, R73, they've raised the ceiling to $2,700.

And the ceiling will be raised in tandem with any future rent increases — if a 3% rent increase is approved by the rent board, the ceiling will rise 3%.

The city is in horrible financial shape and the taxes are outrageous. In fact Gayor Rahm has decided to put a commuter tax in place. Well he's trying to as he can't figure out a way to actually collect it.

Chicago is the number one corruption city in the USA and the corruption is city council oriented. So the only way to end it, is if you get the city council to end it, but they won't. In other words the fox is in charge of the hen house.

Chicago has resorted to turning off escalators in their public transit stations cause they can't afford the electric bills. Crime is mostly about drugs so stay out of drugs and you'll be OK though pick pockets and minor theft is rampant.

Chicago and New York = Jewish cities.

LA is next.

[quote]NYC needs to lose the rent control and let the market stabilize.

Pure fiction. You must be not so bright.

It's supply and demand and a small change in supply will not register even a teeny bit with demand. It will just be the finishing off of middle class NYers. See Boston for what the results will be. In EVERY dishonest "study" of rent stabilized and rent controlled units they always count the public housing units, and senior citizen units which aren't going to change. Nor do they ever account for the many thousands of stabilized units already renting at or near market rates. Why lie if your arguments are strong?

Real "creatives" always find a way.

Sorry if this article has been posted but it's pretty balanced.

R74 - you're a rich white man, right? It's amazing how many things rich white men reserve for themselves because they are wasted on the rest of us.

There are other boroughs to the city beside Manhattan. I was recently in Kew Gardens. Parts of it had homes with yards, gardens and trees and could have been in any medium-sized city anywhere. I found no supermarket nearby. Plenty of ethnic restaurants and small stores for produce, groceries, general merchandise. There was a forested park near where we stayed. It was a different vibe than Manhattan. We also went to the Bronx. I was told 20 years ago there were open, wild spaces. Again, in the part we stayed it could have been anywhere.

R85 here. Our friends apartment in Kew Gardens was not tiny, either. 2 bedrooms, 1 bath, sizeable eat-in kitchen, roomy living room. Beautiful garden courtyard, concierge service at night. Beautiful building probably built in the 1920's, maybe 1930's.

And the people we encountered were not your stereotyped New Yorkers, loud, in-your-face sorts, either.

I wish Gwyneth would join this debate. We need her perspective.

R60, are you in Western Canada, by any chance?

What's the point of having a big house somewhere that you can afford, all paid for etc...if it is in some place where can't talk to anyone?

R84 says it like it is

R84- You don't know NYC, do you? The East Village is swarming with young people of all types- meals can be had for $20 in all manner of places and the music scene is great. Cheap apts can be found in upper Manhattan all over the place and enterprising and creative young people manage in the 10s of thousands- Brooklyn and Queens are full of crazy little neighborhoods. And the great museums of the city from the Henry Street Settlement to the Met are cheap- the gay life still the hottest thing in the US due to shear numbers. You sound like a cold washcloth R84- get a life.

r91 also believes there are jobs for everyone who wants to work, and that the economy is in great shape.

"meals can be had for $20 in all manner of places" If that is your idea of affordable food....

Weather differential between Chicago and NY at link from weather.com. New York is 1 degree warmer.

Yes - there are some colder low temperatures in the winter in Chicago - but once it's cold, it's cold. A few degrees colder isn't that much of a difference.

I visited NYC for the first time in the 70s. Was shocked at the condition of the tenements lining Am Track as we entered the State onto the station. The subways were frightening places to even be in - even for a minute. Then there was the sharp contrast with luxurious clothing and jewellery stores. The grinding poverty and impressive displays of wealth co-habitating side by side was an unsettling experience. I still cannot (I know, I know it's the wars) fathom how a country with so much resource - based and man-made wealth is carrying such a huge debt load and still cannot have a common sense public/political discussion on health.

I feel like R95 hasn't been back to NYC since.

I like the subway. But maybe it's because I like it more and more every time I ride BART and the DC Metro.

Are you seriously comparing the New York of the 70s with the current one??!?! Even New York of 1995 doesn't resemble New York of 2015.

If you go to any civilized country outside of America, you'll see just how third world NYC's subways are. The Asian countries especially have incredible underground transport.

[quote]The Asian countries especially have incredible underground transport.

I can only speak to the Chinese system, but while they are newer so cleaner and more modern looking, they were so terribly crowded. Both the Beijing and Shanghai system you have to fight your way out or risk losing your stop.

There are more gay men in NYC than in any other city in the world. It's a veritable heaven for gay men - and for straight men since most of the women are inevitably single and totally desperate faghags.

... and more STDs and AIDS, R 100

If you want to avoid STDS, you must have safe sex in any city, including Sioux City

R63 speaks the truth. I lived in NYC from 81-88 (yes; am old) and that was the beginning of landlords "cleaning out" apt buildings, to convert them to condos. And I don't mean "cleaning" like housecleaning. New Yorkers will know what I mean. THe WORSE example of this I heard later on - 1997-, when was living in SF and visiting NYC for a few days. I met a guy who was paying some incredibly low $$$ - rent-stab (and 1997 was, I think? the year rent-stabilizing started to be - or was threatened to be - dismantled); anyway, he lived in Inwood and had a landlord who was getting worse and worse. The guy stuck it out as long as possible, but gave up after - couldn't prove but suspected - the landlord hired Dominicans to actually remove the guy's STOVE from his apartment (I'm not knocking the Dominicans; this is a direct quote.)

And haven't there been a few cases over the years of landlords KILLING a rent-controlled (a better deal than rent stabilization) tenant? (or I suppose I could be conflating that with various Law & Order episodes,heh-heh!)

BUT: I fucking LOVED it when I lived there; these days, as a poor person, I doubt I could afford a hotel ($250 per night would be cheap) I greatly admire and envy all of you who live there; stay as long as you can!

oldster- It AIN'T WHAT IT USE TO BE!!!!!! I moved here in the early 90's and nyc had an edge back then that it hasn't had since post 9/11 actually slightly before.around 98.. THe NIGHTLIFE that was at one time the most amazinng on the planet has been reduced to bottle service at some chic bar. with boring hets that are rich stupid enough to pay the going price. I know i missed the NYC nightlife heyday by 15 years, but The early to late 90's in Manhattan are something that I would pay big money to relive.

Oldster, you speak the truth - where do you live now? Anywhere near NY?

R105, as I have bitched and moaned on other threads), I live about 350 miles north of NYC in the small town (2,000) where I went to high school. 5 miles from my brother, who helped me out getting medical treatment and on SS disability when I became mentally disabled 7 years ago. But it's a LONG way from 4 years in SF, then the 7 years I mentioned in NYC and then 20 years back in SF (before I had to move back here). I don't have control of my $$$ anymore (long story; I deserve it), but I know that if I got my shit - mentally and physically (I've become something of a slug) together, Brother Dearest would approve and free up some of (MY) $$$ to, say, spend a weekend in NYC; see shows, etc. But when I look online at what are even cheaper ($200?) hotel rooms (have long ago lost contact with friends in NYC) , I get discouraged. But I'll keep looking for $$$deals.

It IS nice, actually, to know that I'm not TOO far from NYC; also, reading the NYT (online) helps, and this board! THanks for asking; sorry to go on and on.

I'm born and bred. Given that my mom lives on Long Island now and I'm the only one she has, I'm stuck here. Additionally, my partner works for the DOE and needs to stay to get his pension.

I've lived through and witnessed the changes and agree with many of the observations: it's now a radically capitalist city that caters only to the 1% and tourists. Everything is about money, and the neighborhoods I once loved are overrun with douchey bros, princess posses and wealthy white parents. How sustainable this is remains to be seen. But it is self-perpetuating with the wealthy. They can't park their money fast enough in real estate which pretty much guarantees that the market will continue to skyrocket. (remember - in 2008 when the economy collapsed, prices here only went down about 15%).

My partner and I have a combined income of 300k, but with student loans and helping my mom out, we can't afford to buy. Because EVERYTHING is going for cash now. However, I still find myself in love with certain aspects of the city. The food. The arts. The few friends who have hung on and still live here. The occasional peel of a saxophone drifting out of an open apartment window on the occasional quiet weekend day.

Our only coup was being able to get into a rent stabilized apartment that we love in a beautiful part of Brooklyn. Hopefully we can stay there until mom passes away, then consider moving up to the hudson valley or something.

But I mourn though for the city I once knew. Yes, it was dirty and dangerous - but as far as I'm concerned that was the firewall that kept out all the fucking idiots. And there were so many amazing awesome people here - artists, strivers, freaks etc. Even the rich were edgier. And we had the great democratizers: the clubs. Where fags, stock brokers, bohemians and euro trash all collided beautifully.

It will be interesting (or obvious) to see what happens to the Bronx and outer Queens/Brooklyn. Manhattan is Mecca for the ambitious and money-hungry, which will continue to impact these areas as more and more people move here to become the next King Shit.

Recently a friend told me he finally was able to buy - in East New York. I almost spit out my beer. But then found articles like the link below.

Which is to say it's a whole new game here and we're just seeing the beginnings of it. But whatever happens, one thing you can be sure of: NYC will NEVER be the engine of cutting-edge culture again. It's nothing but a business now. A very profitable one.

Rent Control affects more than just rent.

Without Rent Control

* Landlords have huge incentive to make improvements. Nicer apartments can charge more rent.

* Landlords bend over backwards to keep good tenants.

* Tenants move in and out depending on their jobs and life.

With Rent Control

* Landlords have no incentive to make improvements. EVER.

* Landlords and Tenants are at war with each other.

* Tenants have no incentive to move... EVER. Even if they move out of the city, state, or country, they will do anything to keep their rent controlled apartment. Residency fraud is rampant.

Most rent controlled apartments in Manhattan are "occupied" by RICH WHITE PEOPLE, not minorities or the middle class.

R108, do you understand the differences between Rent Control and Rent Stabilization? If you really knew NYC real estate you would.

What is the difference between rent control and rent stabilization? I am NOT r108.

[quote]Recently a friend told me he finally was able to buy - in East New York. I almost spit out my beer.

Not too long ago I read an article in the NYTimes about a gay couple who bought a tiny apt. out in Brooklyn, like within walking distance to JFK, and it was a little 1 1/2 bedroom that cost nearly $2 million! It was insane for the location and the size of the place. NY is just unbelievable now. As much as I love to visit the city, I just couldn't deal with the massive cost of living, and you really don't get what you're paying for.

Rent Control is from WWII and has much tighter restrictions on rent increases. Rent Stabilization is from the late 60s and usually allows larger increases.

R108 is weaving a fantasy. The truth for most buildings is not so adversarial. Under Rent Stabilization, improvements to an apartment allow a monthly rent increases for capital improvements to the individual apartment or to the building as a whole.

Also, there are limits to the amount of time the tenant can be non-resident.

Of course there is some fraud. There always is in real estate. But since moving out of NYC I have had to sue three landlords (and won each time). Getting rid of Stabilization will not eliminate fraud. But it is funny that in NYC I never had a problem with landlords and they never had a problem with me.

When I said I had to sue landlords it was in one case for fraud, in another for not living up to the lease, and in the third for lack of ordinary maintenance. (Yes, I had to buy a stove after three months without one.)

Where in Brooklyn is it walking distance to JFK?

OP, you're falling for some sensational headlines. Of course, there are some bad landlords, especially in poorer neighborhoods, and they exist everywhere (not just in NYC). I've lived here for years and never had any problems with different ones I've had during that time.

I also used to volunteer a lot with senior citizens, who all seemed to live in rent controlled apartments. Most of them were not paying more than a few hundred dollars a month rent and none of them were worried about their landlords tossing them out. I think a lot of the bad things happened, like a previous poster said, back in the 80s and 90s. At least it was more prevalent then than I've noticed for several years.

About six or seven years ago I was ready to leave, but couldn't find a good job (this was after the crash). I'm glad I didn't go. I'm back to loving my life here.

From what I read San Fran seems more expensive than NYC.

I thought JFK was in Queens

Links please to those assertions r108. You sound like the Chairman of the Rent Stabilization Board, which unlike how it sounds, the trade group/Lobbying arm of NYC landlords.

None of those assertions is exactly true. Who cares for all these cosmetic improvements to an apartment you live in if they cause the rent to double? Just replace the fridge and I'll pay a bit more.

Anyone who thinks deregulation causes even a single rental units price to "stabilize" or heaven forbid go DOWN is a fucking retard who still thinks trickle down economics will save us!

Saw the rat with the pizza in the subway thread.

[quote]Where in Brooklyn is it walking distance to JFK?

NOWHERE. No idea what that poster is talking about. In case anyone is confused.

As a foreign visitor to the USA - I only spent about 6 months travelling - I was shocked first of all, how much more culturally energetic the USA seemed than Canada, then by how much more I like LA more than NYC when I expected the opposite. I really got the impression that LA is city series of reasonably distinct villages. As for New York, I was kind of disappointed by his conservative the fashion and stores were. There was more of a local scene of people going and making things in LA whereas in NYC the focus is on soaking up and revelling in what has already been created - dancing, museums, buying stuff.

Then there's the food. LA was cheaper and far more diverse because of the big influence of the Pacific Rim and the (newer) migrant populations. I absolutely loved it.

[quote] It seems everyone in the 30s and 40s (streets) has one

some are big days, some are very small too

Days or dogs, r122?

R116, I have been to San Francisco and it is a very overrated city for it to be so overpriced. I think the reason why it is so expensive is due to the low crime rate for a big city. Overall not the most beautiful city and not very livable if your ideal living is a house with a yard.

[quote]not very livable if your ideal living is a house with a yard.

NO city is ideal if you want a house with a yard. That is not what urban living is about.

But I will admit that while I like San Francisco, it is as expensive or possibly even more expensive than Manhattan and has less to offer.

R121, there is so much more to do in the US then in Canada.

Canada has pockets of places to be at and most of their big cities with expection of Montreal try to mimic an American city.

Toronto is nice. beautiful but tries to be like a NYC, their Yonge and Dundas square is nothing compared to Times Square.

R125, I live closer to NYC and I can easily tell you why NYC lives up to the hype, there is so much to do with everything at your beck and call.

I used to live in New York City.

Everything there was dark and dirty.

I lived in NYC from 2009 to 2013 after growing up in Chicago. Now my first year in NYC was fantastic , made a lot of friends, met my husband, partied hard etc. After that first year and the excitement wore off, I began to hate living there. It was so loud, dirty, hot in the summer, expensive, too many people, constant go-go-go kind of attitude, so many of the gays were just total prissy queens. In 2013 my husband got an opportunity to move to Toronto and we jumped on it.

R126 I agree Canada is no where near as exciting as the US BUT the quality of life here is way better.

R129, Toronto is a great place to be at if you want the higher standard of living in Canda with the feeling of living in an American city with the multi-culturalism.

Toronto is the only city in Canada where most of the action is.

Cat Stevens tells it to you

New York has Duane Reade. Thread closed.

great point^^!!

r121, a chef and an artist both have told me that anything innovative and new in the USA tends to start on the West coast and move to the East. I can see that.

[quote] it's now a radically capitalist city

An absolutely perfect description.

R107 describes it all depressingly perfectly.

Everything in Canada is a provincial bore, it's one gigantic suburb. I've never been surrounded by such middling dullness as when I was in Canada. Canada has no teeth. And you want to talk about overpriced real estate? Christ, just go to Vancouver or Toronto. Real estate is out of control.

Yeah, I mean I liked Canada. As as an antipodean snob. I absolutely expected to love that country more than America but nope. I even found Canadian "politeness" passive-aggressive - snide, actually. So many people have massive chips on their shoulders. Tim Horton's coffee is the nadir of modern civilisation.

What r107 said about NYC catering for tourists and the 1% is how I feel about Paris: it is a beautiful mausoleum that priced the working-class and most of the middle class into the suburbs, the 'cheap' parts and outskirts are populated by African and Middle-Easten menial workers whom most people despise on general principle and the nouveau-rich who live in much of the property are right-wing racists. (Frankly the food is better in Lyon, Toulouse and Marseilles.) .

I agree that a lot of Canadians are passive-aggressive/snide and that it is largely a provincial bore. Montreal is better, but then you have the never-ending French-English thing. Vancouver & Toronto are boring, full of passive-aggressives, and there is no intellectual life. The real estate prices are inflated and this makes them proud.

I hate how they are ruining NY and the other great cities. They are turning the whole world dumb. Dumb and cruel.

NYC is fun if you are young or if you have money. Otherwise idk why you would live there.

Video

I rented for one year and was then very lucky to buy the apartment from my landlord. Because it’s a small co-op with relatively inexpensive maintenance fees that include all utilities, taxes, door staff and all “fixed” structures in the unit, I kept the apartment even when my work took me to Europe, DC and out West.

This thread makes me think about the longer term. I know my place there has grown in value (it’s worth 5 or 6 times the price I paid in 1999). I’m now on my mid-50’s, and sort of watching the City’s changes and figuring out if I’d want to live there part time after I retire. My friends are in the arts and education, and get by in rent stabilized units and hate their landlords. Many, many have aged out of their professions and trying to limp along in the gig economy (how do you do that? ).

I hope the City isn’t a total shithole by the time I return. If it is, I will sell my little place there and move the money into a small place along the coast, but these are expensive, too. Anyway I know I was lucky to get and keep a place in the City (midtown) and luckier still to have held onto it. I am most concerned for friends in bigger rentals that are nearing the rate at which they convert to market rate rentals. That can happen to older people just about the time they retire. That would be awful.

I never lived there myself but before the pandemic went there once or twice a year to visit friends and family. It's just like any other place. You live in a neighborhood which is good, bad or middling, depending on what you can afford and how good you are at choosing a location. You live in a home that varies in niceness depending on what you can afford and, again, how good you are at arranging these things for yourself. If you want affordable stress free living, you don't go to NYC.

The things that made all cities, especially larger major ones not that great to live in anymore is the loss of local things like shops, coffee shops, little delicatessens and the like. If you Google map any city downtown, it is completely devoid of life as there are empty storefronts. Mostly in mid-size cities it's now check cashing places, a Walgreens, and some crappy candle store or some shit.

NYC was the best when it had all the little things everywhere, not just some small area that you have to get to because they were all around.

We are going through a gigantic transformation in all the cities in the US. The excess of retail space that was not dealt with in the last gigantic crash was papered over and it took a pandemic to push it into our faces for landlords, commercial space, and apartment renters.

Why would someone live in a place that has no street-level experiences travel an hour to go to a huge grouping of 50 story buildings and sit on the 37th floor to then leave 8 hours later when they do it from home? The part that made it bearable was everyone else was doing it and the social aspects of being in a place that was alive. There are really no "alive" downtown areas anymore by the standards we knew. NYC is no exception.

The secret is out, and they can't put it back in the bag. Working from home is what will be the norm. The collapse of "office space" as we know it will go the way of the buggy-whip. With that goes the city living experience until it gets reinvented somehow where the things that make them viable are put back in place. This is what NYC is going through and it's going to take some time.

Having been involved with real estate in New York, I can affirm that it is a cut-throat world. Many of the younger crowd are in the business purely to make as much money as possible as quickly as possible- whatever it takes.

R19 Yes. And it is depressing.

Bump

[R147] If you're going to bump at least contribute something, fuckwad.

Don’t tell defatso to contribute, r148.

R148 you’re so rude.

[QUOTE] You're professionally washed up in NYC at 40, so you're advised to make your escape before then.

Is this really true though? What about that old woman, Fran Leibowitz, that the gays fawn over.

Rats on the westside

Bedbugs uptown

what a mess! this town is in tatters, I've been shattered!

New York is like any other place in only one respect: it either appeals to you or it doesn't.

I worked in the art world, and New York is the primary American city for galleries, museums, auction houses and arts publishing. I would put it above Paris and London in terms of scope (London's museums are dreadfully managed and their curatorial and commercial culture is shit; Paris has amazing museum resources but not much of a contemporary scene).

Bump

Brooklyn is the worst since it is just filled with smelly hipsters who can't be bothered to properly shower and use perfume. I hate taking the G train and subjecting myself to funky gross looking young white people. The ones with pronouns and pink hair. A bunch of ugly creatures.

I moved to NYC in 1995 when I was 20 years old. I had visited several times during college and had a few affairs I'll never forget. I loved NYC so much. I couldn't wait to live there. When I got there, I rented a one bedroom on the Upper East Side with my college roommate to make it in show business. She gave up after three months. A friend of friend moved in and we have become lifelong friends though he has now moved to Germany long ago.

My current husband was one of those affairs and I moved in with him in 1998 where I've lived ever since. It's on the best block in Manhattan (55th Street between 8th & 9th) and it's a rent controlled studio that we pay $995/month for. About 20 years ago, we had a friend of ours re-design it for us. Even though it's small, it's beautiful. The walls are long wooden cabinets. The Murphy bed comes out of one of those cabinets. Open another cabinet and it becomes a little office. The other cabinets make up for a lot of storage.

I love living in the theater district. I can go to a Broadway show whenever I want (Playbill Discount, Rush, Lottery, and sometimes full price) and I'd never want to live anywhere else. I have occasionally booked acting work in other cities, especially Los Angeles, the longest stay being 3 years. I like Los Angeles and especially loved living in Malibu for a year about 10 years ago. Lived across the street from David Geffen and the ocean. I could see Cher's house from my shower. And I could open my window at night and go to sleep, listening to the ocean. We also had a fire place which I loved.

We got a dog 3 years ago and she loves NYC. She knows her way around too! One night, on 54th between 8th & 9th, I was walking her and while I was trying to hold onto her while picking up her poop, she slipped out of her leash and get this! I didn't panic at all. I knew she knew where we lived. She ran to 8th Avenue, ran up 8th Ave as I tried to catch up to her. She looked to make sure I was coming and then she turned onto 55th and waited at our door for me!

My brother invited us to move with him and his family to Washington State a few months after Covid hit. We've been living here since but we are moving back to NYC in September and I cannot wait. The last few years I was in NYC, I hardly ever took the subway. Either taxis, Ubers, or walking. I'd say walking 80% of the time. It's crazy. I walk to my therapist's office on 95th Street and back and it hardly feels like anything. Like I said, I can't wait to go back.

Sons-of-bitches..!

R155, you ignorant slut. There are over 800,000 Black residents in Brooklyn. Bed-Stuy has the largest concentration of Black residents of any city in the US.

R158 certain neighborhoods is filled with hipsters that don't always shower. You must be one of them since you sound defensive. Do you live in downtown Brooklyn around Lafayette. I must have taking the train with you while smelling your funkyness. Do you also go by a different pronoun.

A different pronoun than what?

Lived in NYC when I was a younger man. Wouldn't trade it for the world. And since then I have lived in LA, SD, CHI, DC, and Virginia. There are smart and interesting people everywhere. Don't dismiss the rest of the world just because you are able to scrape together enough to live in NYC. Enjoy it, for sure. But please trust that there are wonderful, exciting people and places all over. The "I could only live in NYC" folks don't know what they could be missing.

bump

bump

For god's sake don't mock the bogedas

Bump

Yeah you have to be born and raised there in order to make it there.

OP, you must have retained the NY arrogance by referring to where you live as " flyover country." Right now, anyone with any sense would fly over NY, shithole that it has become.

Bump

Multinational Corporations cycle people through there, so they can be supervised for a couple years. Then, they transfer them to regional offices. These workers are always on the younger side. They think they are going to have a sex in the city experience. Older people do not want to move/live there.

There is tourism and also the service industry to carter to all these people.

Most people I know, who live in NYC, are there only for a job. They always complain about NYC.

Actors get paid to live there, if they have to move for a job that is filming there.

It is trendy by day and tranny by night.

I’ve tried elsewhere - but just can’t get the lifestyle I want anywhere else. I love CA - but SF is the only place you can live without a car. I just can’t live a car based life - it makes me unhappy and isolated. Yeah I could have a bigger space to live outside NYC - but I find it’s just space. The way I live life is dependent on location I found. And the lifestyle of NYC is what works for me. I also think the people are more open and interactive than almost anywhere else.