Why is it men who don't even try look so good?

You seem as obsessed with surface details as your friends.

A lot of the men who "try" do things that undermine attractive masculinity, such as messing with their eyebrows, tanning, wearing feminine clothes, and unmanly hairstyles.

R2 That makes sense.

So many neither look nor smell like men anymore. The perfume is a huge turn off.

Either these type men end up being effeminate, or garish and tacky. Both are unattractive

I'd be satisfied if uncut guys learned to wash properly

75% of men out there who have plastic surgery end up looking like my great aunt Sheila. 'Doll, its not pretty"!

Wow, OP. You need to get out more and meet a different class of gay man. Do you live in Southern California or South Florida? I'm 46 and none of my gay male friends are as plucked and processed as you describe. One in his mid-30s just went gray and he's keeping it natural. We've had discussions and the general consensus on body hair is that naturally smooth or naturally hairy are both superior to any shaving or waxing. 1/3 of us have some form of facial hair and shaving (facial) is pretty optional most days. We are not slobs but we wear mostly t shirts and jeans or shorts on our off hours; for dressier occasions its dress pants and a nice button down and we all own suits, but casual clothes are just that: casual, and unaffected.

I use a drugstore moisturizer/sunscreen on my face and that plus a decent regular haircut are the extent of my "beauty regimen," outside of soap and water and oral hygiene of course. We all have "hair that moves." Mine gets downright messy with a good wind. I run my fingers through it to get it off my face and move on with my day. I cannot stand touching a man's hair and feeling crunchy hair product. If I ever get plastic surgery it will be to tighten my aging turkey neck and that's it. No Botox and absolutely no "fillers." I want my face to look like a face and not a catcher's mitt.

Your friends truly suck. Why are you friends with them? They sound shallow beyond all belief.

Obviously some people don't need product and some people do.

It's no surprise you are attracted to people that don't.

I live in NY.

Go to any bar or nightclub and the 'look' is the same. Oh yes there is some facial hair, but even that is so carefully done.

I cut my own hair with my FLOWBEE.

Have for years. Always get compliments.

Oh R9 we all know "the look." It exists outside of NY and LA. We just don't all subscribe to it and we certainly aren't all attracted to it.

I only like the clean cut look on young men. I like guys my own age to have at least some stubble; facial hair hides flaws like sagging skin better than any plastic surgeon. And shiny hair is just gross on a man.

"Some people need product and some don't?" That's a weird take. We're saying guys need to tone the product down. Less is more for men.

Why the need to announce the guy you think is hot is "straight" OP?

Why do I get the feeling if OP met a groomed straight man, he'd have no issue?

Shiny hair?

Good point, r13. The glaring non-mention that there are actual gay men who don't groom to excess is another tell that this OP has a few screws loose. A very warped perception of the world at least.

There is a big difference between guys who want to look good vs what OP describes in terms of extreme botox/plastic surgery, etc.

R13 not true, I hate the Metrosexual look some straight men adopt.

Just as phony.

It's formally known as "the wet look", R14, and informally known as "greasy hair" or "too much product." While it looks good in a fashion layout it usually feels terrible in real life, and looks bad on most men.

Farm boys and Cowboys own this thread.

There is just something so natural and easy about those types of guys, that would put any runway model to shame.

I'm with you, op. No primping and plucking for me. All natural, all the way!

Here the good news OP: no one says you have to date the groomed gay guys. You are braking up the wrong tree though if you start crushing on slobby het men. Maybe you need to check out the bear scene.

Yee haw!

^ barking..

You are right that bears don't groom, or pay any attention to calorie consumption.

Obese bearded men are their own turn off.

This is just another troll thread saying that gay men are not hot and straight men are hot.

I'll just FF it.

R10 in younger days

R24 not paying attention.

Not all bears are obese or even overweight. And there are otters too, and plenty of gay men of every body type who dress and groom in an understated and masculine way.

Fill me in then R26.

you're full of shit - i don't believe one word of this post

STRAIGHT STRAIGHT STRAIGHT!

OP is channelling Drew Droege.

"Chef, your beauty transcends that hobo look you're rocking - the messy hair, the fryolater parfume, the soiled clothes. What's your secret?"

[quote]Thus I have a huge man crush on a straight guy. I go to this restaurant and cream every time the chef comes out to say hello. ......I asked him what he does..."Shave most days, comb my hair when we go out, and I brush my teeth."

Wee bit forward, OP? Creeper.

He can be as forward as he likes, R32. It's his fantasy, after all.

All I do is fix my unibrow about once a month.

I think it's this - men who seem to just throw on some jeans and a baseball cap don't seem as stuffy as those who are groomed to perfection. Would you want to date Joan Crawford? It's like seeing a guy who clearly works out for hours in the gym every day. That kinda turns me off, because it usually means he's more into himself than anyone else. How will we spend time together if he's at the gym for 3 hours every day?

Self loathing seems to be the theme of the 2015 threads that bump queen is resurrecting today.

Ordinarily I'd raise an (unplucked!) eyebrow at whomever is bumping these Obama era threads, but given most of the new threads lately are about Trump's every fucking utterance, or where to find those oh so precious disinfectant wipes at 5am online, I guess I am not complaining.

All men should stay away from botox and fillers; they're designed for women's faces, and they don't even look good on *them.*