Do you gind FTM (female to male) transgenders attractive in general?

Find not gind

The one's I would find attractive i probably wouldn't know in most situations they were Transgender. The transition to F-M from outward (clothed) appearance often seems to be much less noticeable as an obvious transgender than most of the M-F transitions i've seen. Sorry Kat you look like a dude in a skirt despite all the money you've spent.

Absolutely NOT!

Until the pheromones kick in.

Until I reach down and don't find what I want and expect.

No

They look as real as those life-size sex dolls

Not generally, but that one at OP is very attractive. I'd be skeeved out when I discovered he had the dreaded beef curtains, however.

No, I'm gind-ophobic!

I'm a slightly bi gay guy and I loved fucking pussy when I was younger. FTM with a pussy seems super hot as an idea.

There's one beautiful FTM doing shows at Chaturbate or Cam4 sometimes. He's beautiful. Because I'm like 90% gay I don't necessarily get sexual kicks of watching him finger his pussy but there's no denying that I'm interested in some way. Like is the case with Buck Angel as well.

I do.

Female + Testosterone = Twink

I do wonder how pheromones come into play? It would seem that you would have to have some level of sexual attraction to biological women in order to be sexually attracted to a FTM.

They're dickless, i.e., still women.

Gross...

Depends - more pics please!

Most FTM seem to pass much better than MTF and are more attractive. Yes, I find them attractive. Would I sleep with one? Not so sure about that - but I'd be willing to give it a try.

As a committed size queen it really wouldn't matter to me how handsome or masculine they looked from the waist up because there is currently absolutely nothing surgically that will enable them to have more in the basement than a large clitoris that slightly resembles a penis, and no testicles. And forget it altogether if one still has the vajayjay. That's just disgusting, a man with a twat.

Guys with pie remind me of early Christian Church father Origen...with a vagina.

Rocco Kayiatos

Show us your cock, R18.

Aydian Dowling in the running for the cover of Men's Health magazine.

R19

That's not me. Just posting pictures of well known transguys.

Well, that would be stupid, R20.

I’m with r2 and r15 on this one. Some FTMs are quite attractive. I find a man with a pussy to be very hot; it’ll feel better and there’s no chance of the mess you can get into with a bottom who didn’t clean properly. Yeah, I went there.

these threads are always made by 'pussy is better' trolls

These women look like caricatures of men.

What effect does testosterone have on their twats? Aren't they dry enough to spontaneously combust with the friction from those beefy thighs when they walk?

Is it true that FTMs have an issue with keeping their pussies smelling fresh and clean.

More pix

"Cis"-gendered men come with pussies. They're called buttholes.

Yeah r28, that's where shit comes from.

And cunts are where piss comes from. What's your point, shit head?

I see the "my pussy stinks" troll has been let out of his cage. Jeesh, for someone who has such a blind rage against women, you sure do spend a lot of time lurking on threads on this subject.

I find them gross just like MTFs.

R30 urin comes out the urethra not the vag. Menstual blood and babies come out the vag.

FTM body builder, Kieran Moloney, fom New Zealand

Dickless, I presume, R34.

R30, I think that's the point, ha, ha😄!

Some of them look fine as long as they keep their pants on.

Yes, Kieran used to be a girl if that's what you're asking.

Exactly how much testosterone do these people have to continue taking for the rest of their lives to overcome what's naturally being produced? What happens if they stop?

FTM Twink talks about missing his shot.

Generally, once you are on T your voice will not go back even if you stop taking it forever. The facial features also soften.

The majority of gay men would have no reservations flipping any one of these women over onto her stomach and doing her from behind in secret all the while proclaiming their disgust in public.

Bullshit, R41. Just bullshit.

No, not really, given the amount of promiscuity within the gay community, if you enjoy the thrill of anonymous sex and sucking some random penis through a glory hole, the idea of fucking a presumed male, while experiencing a new sensation can be quite exciting.

If he looks like the men I find attractive, then I'll find him attractive. If he doesn't, I won't.

You aren't going to convince gay men to fuck you. If you want dick in your vagina so badly then you should have remained a heterosexual female.

Plenty of gay and straight men and women in the forums who enjoy FTM sex. Like it or not, this group is slowly becoming accepted. It's the usual double-standard. Women are rewarded for acting like men, while males are ridiculed and called faggot for showing any femininity.

WW r45 for more wisdom, succinctly expressed, than anyone else in this thread.

Trannies freak me out

[quote] If you want dick in your vagina so badly then you should have remained a heterosexual female.

Who says we want your dick in our vagina?

R47, we know you wrote that. Stop congratulating yourself. What an idiot you are. If an FTM can choose his sexuality and remain a heterosexual woman, you're implying a gay male can choose to be heterosexual as well.

Don't you just LOVE a nice prostate orgasm, R49?

I do, but I think it is because their faces still have a more feminine curve.

Except I didn't write it, R50. And I'm not going to touch your logic salad.

I almost fucked one by accident at a party. We were both drunk and went into the bedroom she/he/ bent over dropped pants and I lubed up and started to get ready to go but I felt kind of put off. Like hmmmm something ain't right here. I went to reach around for the cock but he/she wouldn't let me. So I was drunk and aggressive so I flipped him/her over and spread the legs and saw a masculine pussy. The outside labia was red and wrinkled and droopy like a nutsack. Her outer pussy looked like a nutsack with no balls. At first I thought it was a balless man with a tiny cock.

What the hell I said. She/he said i'm transitioning. I was pissed and said look I don't fuck women. She insisted she was a guy. I didn't want to lose my gold star gay status and said nope. This ain't gonna happen so I left.

I thought to my self. Why????She could of had miles and miles of cock ran through her if she stayed a woman? I thought to myself like damn that biatch is cray cray. She could of had more choice prime dick in her as a female than changing to a guy. Then I said to my self trans gendered people might just be mentally ill.

Actually I know for a fact that r47 didn't write it because I wrote it. And I agree that is quite a messy logic salad from someone who thinks gay men could possibly want to stick their dicks inside vaginas simply because they are attached to someone who was born female but now identifies as male. Someone who essentially has the appearance of a butch lesbian or a diesel dyke. Gay men are gay because we aren't sexually attracted to vaginas nor the people who have them. You can self-identify any way that you like but my dick doesn't care how you identify it won't get up if you aren't a biological male. How you identify won't make a gay man sexually attracted to you. Harsh truth but it is the truth nonetheless.

Don’t speak for all gay men r45! How presumptuous. To r44’s point; if I’m attracted to him as a man and he turns out to have a pussy, then I’m going down on it and fuck it if he lets me.

Can we start a petition to bring back Michfest? It would give these angry, man-hating womyn something to do besides hanging out on our website taking shots at trannies 24/7.

R56 then you aren't a gay man. An actual gay man isn't going to be sexually aroused by a vagina simply because the person attached to it has short hair, a flat chest and calls herself a man.That may be harsh but it is reality. If you are turned on by Ellen Degeneres and would fuck her as long as she agreed to call herself a man then you aren't a gay man.

I'm so glad that these women have finally arrived on the DL to tell us all what Gay men can and cannot do, will and will not do, should and shouldn't do (or think!) and, of course, who we are and are not allowed to fuck.

How did we survive for so long without them controlling us?

More pics of Balian Buschbaum, a former pole vaulter. He is the guy from OPs link

R:58, How did Ellen get pulled into the mix; she's clearly a lesbian with no desire to transition. Sexuality is fluid; while there are 100% gay men and 100% hetero men, the vast majority fall somewhere in between straight and queer. It's pretty presumptuous for you to be the final judge on who gets to call themselves gay. Talk about faulty logic salads.

Cute boy with pie at r40 YT, I would definitely do him. 6'2". Yowza.

BTW, there are Ftm's who view themselves as men who love other men i.e., gay men. Here's Caspian Drumm, a Danish ftm who identifies as gay.

it is really funny how gay men treat ftm's so much better. i think it has to do because they are mostly thinking with their dicks

Yeah those guys in the photos are nice to look at as long as their pants are on. Wouldn't date or sleep with one though.

My guess is gay men would be immediately drawn to them, based on looks, thinking they were born men. Now, once the truth came out it would be another story. I would imagine they would still date them and be seen in public, but probably not have sex, unless they were committed emotionally or in an open relationship.

R61 then it should be easy for you to produce a legitimate, peer reviewed study proving your assertion about the ' vast majority' being sexually fluid. If that were true you wouldn't be trolling this forum every other week desperately trying to convince ( which you are never going to do) gay men that ftms are sexually appealing and their vaginas are intriguing. Go find some of that sexually fluid dick. If you can't deal with the fact that you have limited sexual and romantic prospects due to being transgender and desperately want to be fucked in your vagina then you should have remained a heterosexual female. Life isn't fair and you don't always get what you want. Ellen is a masculine, boyish looking woman if all it took for a gay man to be attracted to a woman was for her to appear masculine then all of these supposed gay men ( who curiously only pop up in large numbers in threads like this one) would also be attracted to butch lesbians and diesel dykes. The end.

R64, What do you mean by gay guys treat ftms better?

So many stupid trolls here.

No one buys FtMs

You don't have 'it'

Can't wait for the first ftm singer or actor to go mainstream and show up on the red carpet with his gay boyfriend, so I can watch R67/ R69's head explode!

Well, lets be honest. That isn't the best example because famewhores and gold diggers will do just about anything for money and fame. Look at all the women old as the Earth Hugh Heifner manages to score.

FTMs come off as little Ganymedes. Really handsome young men that blossom into real "manly" men. Most MTFs end up looking like tall, balding men in really ugly clothes. One actually completes the transition by being believable. The other usually ends up a catastrophe of female hormones screaming for their social justice warrior rights. However they are not satisfied with social justice as they have been socially ruled to be contemptible. FTMs become men, MTFs become something else.

This video is very confusing.

Listen to the ftms video at R63. His teacher, a gay male, who he confided in as a child, tried to rape him after he transitioned. Doesn't mean all gay men like ftms, but there are exceptions to every rule.

r73, I wish he had real balls and a cock to rub. He's cute but I feel sorry for him.

Don't feel sorry for him. His orgasms are like earthquakes due to the T injections.

r76. I get that but he seems like Pinocchio. I would rather he were a real boy...

[quote]R:58, How did Ellen get pulled into the mix; she's clearly a lesbian with no desire to transition. Sexuality is fluid; while there are 100% gay men and 100% hetero men, the vast majority fall somewhere in between straight and queer. It's pretty presumptuous for you to be the final judge on who gets to call themselves gay. Talk about faulty logic salads.

What? If you are in the spectrum between straight and gay then you are bi. What's with these assholes who want to redefine what the word 'gay' means. If you are sexually attracted to both men and women then you are bi, not gay. Is this one of the new 'identify' things? Where someone says they are attracted to both men and women but they 'identify as gay' and we're just supposed to agree with them, disregarding all common sense and reason?

Words no longer have to have meaning, silly R78.

R72, FTMs don't become real men because you cannot change your gender. They still have a vagina and female hormones. They are delusional just like MTFs. Some look like men on the exterior but as soon as they open their mouths, you can tell they were born female. Plus, there are MTFs who look like women. Janet Mock and Andreja Pejic come to mind.

For whatever reason FTM's ( pants on) tend to look more naturally the chosen gender that they are transitioning to. Now even if you have the btm surgery which most now forgo that micro non functinoing pennis becomes an issue for many

[quote]Really handsome young men that blossom into real "manly" men

Sure

Meet Patrick Califia

Andreja Pejic is 6'2" and looks like a heroine drag queen.

[quote]For whatever reason FTM's ( pants on) tend to look more naturally the chosen gender that they are transitioning to

Of course

R22

Take it up with Men's Health.

Str8 men find MTF trannies irresistible. It's odd that gay men are repulsed by FTMs.

Totally gay man here. I'm shocked to say that I've found myself attracted to FTM on a number of occasions, it's made me reflect on what I find "manly" - is it chest hair and biceps, or is it a cock and a deep voice?

Very perplexing.

This is all BULLSHIT. They can do what they want, but I am not interested in validating them. Doesn't mean I'm setting them on fire or clubbing them in the back of the head. But I like cock. I'm gay and I like cock. Shallow? Fine, but it is what it is. But its more than that: I don't want someone who has to have surgery and hormone injections to correct a 'birth defect' that isn't even a defect! I'm not settling. And unless you are Bi, you are settling, damnit!

I literally had to sit down to compose myself when I opened the video at R40. I had no idea female trannies could be so undetectable. Makes me wonder about a few past encounters. The dead giveaways are the sparkly eyes, the expressive hand gestures and their highly verbalized way of speaking. There have been studies. Men don't use as many words, especially descriptors.

Oh, and the missing dick. That's the biggest giveaway.

No a single adam's apple in sight

R86 I wonder about that: there are also forums where guys go into great detail on how to avoid getting "trapped" by MTFs and the myriad (I can't speak to the legitimacy of them) ways you can determine...

R40 MARIO!

I once heard a disturbing story about the backroom of the Cock in NYC -- and I wouldn't be surprised if it is true -- that girls (who are not identifying as guys) would go there to suck off gay guys. They are entitled and stealthy little vixens...

I am sure I might find some of them attractive, but as soon as the truth comes out it will all change.

[quote]It's odd that gay men are repulsed by FTMs.

No, R86. It is you who are odd for saying that. THEY. DON'T. HAVE. A. DICK. Repeat until it sinks in.

Let's rate the ftms on this thread. I give Aydian a 7, an 8 if she keeps her mouth shut.

I guarantee you this will become more and more of an issue until some kind of gay to trans hate crime happens...

I think most gay men would be attracted to the masculinity these ftms are projecting. It's the same thing as when straight men are attracted to transgender women. It's their femininity.

[quote]I think most gay men would be attracted to the masculinity these ftms are projecting.

I think you are not a gay man.

How did a chick make the cover of a men's magazine? How does that work?

I've fucked a FTM a couple of times.

He looked like a very hot 22 year old guy, had facial hair, some chest hair. Making out felt like sucking face with your average twink. He gave good head and one time I even ate him out - he had a giant clit from the testosterone and that was kind of hot. Was not stinky or dry.

I've fucked women before and so that part wasn't all that weird, more like the juxtaposition of this guy. and the vagina (video at R73 is close to what was happening.)

It was fun the few times it happened, but then I realized I was doing it for kicks and I'd already gotten them. He actually had a girlfriend and used a strap-on with her, but missed the feeling of getting fucked, since he had intense orgasms that way. I asked why the girlfriend didn't just use a strap on or dildo with him and he said it wasn't the same.

That's about when I bailed. Nice guy though.

The world is absolutely fucking crazy, R101.

R101 I guess pap smears, yeast infections, menstruation and morning sickness are Men's Health Issues now.

Chest scars I guess could be one thing in common...

101, you're a fool. I'm sexually and emotionally attracted to men only. I think I meet the definition of gay pretty well.

What?

[quote]while experiencing a new sensation can be quite exciting.

From my experience, I think that many gay men are NOT looking for "new sensations". They're looking for very specific types of encounters - often ones that remind them of some sexual situation they once found themselves in at an impressionable age - and if you don't exactly fit the bill, then they're not interested.

Lol @ R102's fanfiction. Gay men love COCK. That's what makes us GAY.

Pretty sure I would rather fuck a MTF trans before a FTM trans just for the cock.

But biomen and their cocks would obviously still come first (literally and figuratively).

Not a fan fic R108. Or even a Nifty story. It happened. Your sexuality is not mine. I have zero interest in a MTF tranny.

R102 I wonder if that trans guy didn't want the gf to use the dildo because it would invalidate the "perceived roles" within that relationship. Nice person or not, sounded like a messy situation.

No, I'm gay, I am only attracted to men.

Kieran Moloney is hot to look at, I give him that. But what a waste to go to bed with him and he'll have to use a strap on or his enlarged clit. That wouldn't be satisfying to me.

The FTMs pretending to be gay bio men don't appear to understand why gay men would take issue with the assertion that gay men are sexually aroused by vaginas and that makes it clear that they don't relate to the gay experience or have any understanding of what life is like for a gay male.

The cause of transsexualism, masculine women and feminine men.

The cause of transsexualism, masculine women and feminine men, part 2.

The cause of transsexualism, masculine women and feminine men, part 3.

I do tend to believe there is something in the environment which is causing so many children to think they are in the wrong body. Reports started surfacing about 30 years ago which fits the timeline for when these ftms given as examples here were born. Would love to see a study on how many of them were bottle fed. The plastics are very harmful to developing infants.

The cause of transsexualism, masculine women and feminine men, part 4.

R112, would it be a waste if you were an exclusive top?

r84, just goes to show you that ALL late transitions are iffy at best.

[quote]Would it be a waste if you were an exclusive top?

Yes. I still want a cock to suck and his cum.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

All people are entitled to live their lives as they choose (insert usual not harming others, consenting adults, etc).

However, no one is entitled to tell the rest of us how to live.

Sexuality is the one arena where any prejudice or discrimination is allowed. No one has the RIGHT to have sex with another person. You are entitled to choose partners (or exclude them) for any reason under the sun.

However, just because you don't want to have sex with someone, doesn't entitle you to be nasty or rude. You are entitled to say "no" but not to be a jackass about it.

R54 If your story is true, its another example of the culture of "stealth" that is far more prevalent in the FtMs than MtFs.

Also, don't be a lush ;-)

R123 you don't get it aha

Really?? It's 2015, and retards are STILL linking to the BIGGEST QUACK SITE in the world "Dr. Mercola"??

I hate to break it to you, but science should actually be BASED ON SCIENCE AND FACTS, not selling unregulated vitamins, anti-vaxxer hysteria, and every every scary Mommybloggy fad that comes down the pike. You sound full of "toxins"!

When you read what many FtMs say they look for in a man its along the lines of "bonding" and "becoming one" and kiss, cuddle and...argh, should've stayed a girl cuz you sure do think like one!

Ira Beatty.

Warren Beatty and Annette Bennings kid. Gay. Transguy.

[quote]And cunts are where piss comes from.

You have got to be kidding me, R30. Really? This is what you think?

Found a shot of r18's cock.

Why do FTM trannies always have high-pitched voices....like they suck on helium before speaking?

R8 - I think I know the Chaturbate model you're talking about. He actually could pass, until you went down south, of course. Whoever "she" was before, he ended up being a really handsome guy.

R20 - I'm not one of the anti-trans trolls, but no way that guy is making it to the cover of Men's Health. A). Look at those PUNY, delicate forarms. How much does he weigh? 90 lbs? Also, I don't mean to be cruel, but since this guy is trying to be a fitness model, what is going on w/ his hands? Is it just me or are they massive and just way out of proportion to the size of his arms?

As for myself, I don't THINK so. I'm a gay man. 100% gay. Gold star and all. I actually have a lot of trans friends from being in a left-coast, progressive, big city bubble. A few look pretty convincing, but to me, it's more than just the cock (though that IS important). There's, simply put, the presence of a man. I don't think it can be faked.

One of my best friends from high school transitioned (FTM) a couple of years ago. When she was Jessica, she was always a bit butch. Identified as bi; had more relationships with girls than guys. She started dating this great lesbian gal, Amalia, about 8 years ago and that gal considered herself a 100% gold star lesbian. She actually ended up staying with Jessica as she transitioned from "Jessica" to "Jonathan" (top surgery, hormones etc - no bottom surgery) I don't know how Amalia did that. We've had conversations about it and one night when were a bit drunk and stoned she confessed to me what I always felt, that her partner and my friend Jessica/Jonathan just ended up looking like a butch lesbian who really needs to trim her facial hair. I'm glad that Jonathan has Amalia, because I think he'd have a hard time attracting partners. His transition, unlike a lot of the guys on this thread, is not the least bit convincing and when we're out together he'll still get called "ma'am" by cashiers and waiters.

The was a FTM on the last episode of I Am Cait, that turned me on a little. Of course most FTM's are pretty short, but some people like pocket gays. I thought the guy was fairly handsome, and had a totally convincing masculine personality and a totally masculine voice presumably lowed with testosterone. So on the surface, yes, masculine FTM's can turn me on as much as any other dude. And convincing drag kings have also often turned me on.

i still can't get over how gay men are so much nicer to ftm. i guess it has to do on how some of them can pass has men. i know that with lesbians, the hate of trannies particularly the mtf (even more so the transbian types) has to do with male hatred and rad fem ideas.

To the DUMBDUMBS in this thread who keep "cleverly" pointing out that FTM would have had a lot more prime dick if they had stayed female. FTM are not obsessed with getting dick in their pussy. They want to be MEN. That is not the goal of transitioning. In fact its stupid. What's more, many of them probably don't become Gay "men".

Now to answer your question, I never turn down people based on preconceived limited and expectations. I suppose I could possibly stumble on a FTM who would excite me, interest me, and sticking my dick in their pussy would be a river to cross, or not. It all depends.

Generally they look attractive but sometimes a little to "masculine" with ah obvious hint that they are FTM, so i think ultimately they simply look FTM, their own breed.

Ftms can no more change their brains to "stay" female than gay men can change their brains to "stay" straight. What a silly, backward, stupid moron the poster who keeps insisting otherwise is.

I love them.

Ass gets stretched out when fucked for a long time, pussy grips. A man with a pussy is the best thing ever.

I have fucked a few and would absolutely date one long term.

[quote]They want to be MEN.

They need to grow a DICK.

75% of the posters ON DL seem to think FTM and MTF are preposterous and lack authentic genetics and private bits. DUH. Big fucking duh. That isn't even the issue here. WE get it. 75% of you, maybe more, would never ever ever EVAH have relations with a trans. For the rest of us, the question stands....

[quote]Ftms can no more change their brains to "stay" female than gay men can change their brains to "stay" straight

What a stupid thing to say.

First, straight is not the norm. Second, these confused women are still women, there's nothing masculine about them. Third, gay men are men. There's no change going on. Gays don't have to change anything, they are as they are. These sad creatures have to ape men to validate themselves.

Don't be f$cking ridiculous. Straight is the norm. Look around you. Ftms brains are are wired differently as are gay brains. The only sad creatures are reptiles like you who are so filled with intolerance.

R136 that would make sense if gay men were born straight. You have to have once been something in order to "stay" that way. I'm not going to coddle FTMs but that doesn't mean that I'm anti-trans. I'm anti FTMs trolling this forum pretending to be gay men who just so happen to love pussy or have an interest in pussy because they think this will convince actual gay men to sleep with them. A gay man is not going to be turned on by a man with a pussy. A gay man is not going to be attracted to what amounts to a diesel dyke. If you can't handle the consequences that come along with transitioning then transition back.

[quote]A gay man is not going to be turned on by a man with a pussy.

A man does not have a pussy.

Some of the arguments being made against ftms transitioning are simular to the arguments made againsy gays coming out. Very eye opening.

Arguments against gays coming out? Perhaps you mean arguments against gays simply being gay. We are gay whether we come out or not, we don't have to transition to gayness.

The two have nothing in common, R144. STOP trying to make that happen. Coming out means being who we are, not changing who we are.

If ONLY there were less troll bait threads about trans on Data Lounge. They are ugly, annoying, vulgar, embarrassing, and exceedingly low brow.

Yes, I have been attracted to several. But the moment I find out they have a pussy, I'm out. Won't fuck 'em. Won't date 'em.

I could easily tell most of them by their hips, voice, face/head and hands. I am very good at this game

[quote]I could easily tell most of them by their hips, voice, face/head and hands. I am very good at this game

Just how often do you encounter them? There are virtually none where I live in Europe. And no, I don't mean "not that I know of."

I've seen one of ftms. She was probably 4'10". She had a sad looking beard and she was as round as a potato. There was nothing masculine about her. When I walked pass her, she looked up at me (I'm 6'3") with an expression of wonderment and fright. Clearly, she has no clue of what a man is.

No. Always, the girl hips and missing parts of vital interest. I'd only accept the latter if it's the result of a bad accident not because of artful deception or willful, genital mutilation.

R150 there are quite a few FTMs and MTFs in San Francisco. There are also some might be a stone butch or might be a FTM types.

Ftms are not making themselves into men. They are changing their outward appearance to match their male brains. Just like gays are redefining the definition of sex to include inserting one's penis in another man's feces filled anus.

ftm guide on how to look like a man

Be a Man

Did male Bonobos who have homosexual sex with other male Bonobos redefine the meaning of sex or was it a form of sexual contact that always existed among the species, r154? You are failing with these comparisons to be honest.

Um, given apes and humans are two different species, I'd say you are the one who is reaching, brah.

Um, given humans are descended from an Ape-like creature and Bonobos are in fact the closest human relative, I'd say you are beyond clueless. Physical Anthropology 101.

We call them Dickless Tracys..

R154 define male brain and female brain please.

Easy, men think differently than women.

There are a lucky few who can usually pass as male (including a voice that doesn't sound like a robot going through puberty). The minute the clothes are off, however, the illusion created through extensive surgery and synthetic hormones is over.

Man = Adult human male. Homosexuality = Exclusive attraction to the same sex.

In another 5 - 10 years, this discussion will be meaningless if not laughable. Attitudes will change and ftms will be as accepted as gays. Also, who cares if some gay men on here would not have anything to to with them. To each his own. Most Ftms identify as straight anyway, and there's no shortage of women (and gay men who accept trannies) who will date them.

[quote]Most Ftms identify as straight anyway, and there's no shortage of women (and gay men who accept trannies) who will date them.

IOW, there's no shortage of straight women who want to date men without penises who are sexually attracted to women, i.e., lesbians. Right.

LOL yes - who are these straight women who don't want a "real man?" I certainly don't know any. I'm not one of them...

I doubt the gay men want someone without a dick either...

R165 Ah yes, the "You are on the wrong side of history!" shtick. Gay males are attracted to males. Learn to live with this.

The idea of 'male and female brains' is bad science and flat out sexist. But I don't think being attracted to 1 in 1000 women makes you bi or wrong for identifying as gay. Also the 'women sucking cocks at glory holes' story sounds bull, its not like there is a shortage of straight men willing to get their cocks sucked by any woman.

Actually R165, I believe at some point in the near future we will reach a "peak trans" moment and then get back to reality i.e. yes, what is in your pants DOES determine your biological sex, and yes, the sex that you like DOES determine your sexuality and it's extremely relevant information.

Either that or there will be new words apart from "gay" and perhaps even "men" and probably "penis" and those who consider themselves actually gay men will be using them accordingly to distinguish themselves.

r142 there have been studies on identical twins that make it clear that no one is 'born gay'. Not that sexuality is something you can change regardless, but its incorrect to say its all down to genetics. Why is it controversial so say you'd be attracted to a ftm until the clothes come off. Some are pretty damn indistinguishable from the real thing unless you're looking closely, which is hard when you're at a bar or whatever. Or is it like with lesbians being guilted into having sex with mtfs? Like you have to fuck a ftm out of LGBT solidarity now.

R165 I agree it won't be an issue, because in 5-10 years--at the rate we are going--most of them will be murdered.

r170 I think it'll be when all the children that are being pushed into transitioning now grow up and start detransitioning. I feel so sorry for them.

R171, I would like to see that study just to see how recently if was conducted. If it was made clear then science would have stopped trying to discover what causes homosexuality , so clearly it was never made clear.

R174 The study made it clear there was some genetic link (since both identical twins had a higher chance of being gay than both fraternal twins, and fraternal=same environment,different genes, identical=same genes,same environment). It could be something to do with hormones in the womb or epigenetics, no one really knows for sure. Just that it's not 100% based on what genes you get.

R171 Truth hurts, but the biological sex of the overwhelming majority of trans people can easily be distinguished. You only think a significant portion of them pass flawlessly thanks to how selective the media is.

The point is not to deny that there are trans people out there who can pass, but that we, as gay people, have the right to our sexual orientation. More and more you are seeing PUA-style harassment towards gay men (lesbian women have been the targets for years) on how we are bigoted/transphobic if we say no to a trans person when we realize/are told their biological sex. This is completely unacceptable and it is nothing but homophobia.

There is some wild porn I've seen that features MTFs fucking FTMs-- kind of totally blows apart the whole gender thing. Could not find a great clip (the actors on here are not pretty people) but gives you a sense of what it looks like. Short highlight clip

R176 I didn't say anything about biological sex not being easy to spot? I don't think biological sex has anything to do with orientation. Just because being gay isn't 100% to chromosomes doesn't mean it isn't valid or is something you can change. Height isn't 100% down to genetics that doesn't mean it can be changed.

And IA most trans people can't pass (very few mtf pass and most ftm who pass only do so cause they have beards, and to most people beard=male) just saying its harder to distinguish if youre in a dark place (like a club) or drunk (like when youre in a club). Obviously once the clothes are off its obvious.

The fact that some gays are admitting that they have slept with or would with an ftm, shows that - some gays do, albeit in the minority. The fact that some posters are doubting that the ftms on the links in this thread were ever women, shows that some can and do pass successfully. Go to YouTube and you'll find oodles of them. No one is forcing you to fuck one, but don't try and dictate other people's preferences.

R175, I'd still like to see the study. In your first post you claimed the study made it clear that no one is born gay but in your second post you said the study made it clear that there was a genetic link.

R179 Gay male = Male who is exclusively attracted to other males.

Sorry, not gonna buy this idea that there are -actual- gay males out there who are sleeping with transmen. Call me the evil gay police, but I believe that words mean things and, if anything, these men are bisexual, even if they generally prefer males. And yes, people are actually forcing me to consider transmen as dating and sexual partners; I frequent multiple social websites and have been called bigoted and transphobic for saying that I would not be involved with one. Don't even get me started on the death threats that lesbian women have to deal with for refusing transwomen.

R178 Biological sex has everything to do with sexual orientation, though, that's my point. Homosexuality is literally the exclusive attraction to the same sex (all the innate components that comprise it), not with gender (socially-constructed roles). No one is saying that it's impossible for a person to initially be attracted to someone and then lose all interest (human nature), we are arguing that we have the right to say no when we realize their biological sex.

I feel terrible saying it but I could never feel sexual or romantic attraction to someone who was born female. We could only be friends.

R182 This is the exact same guilt-tripping that I'm talking about. You are gay and there is nothing, absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. Don't let any homophobe shame you into thinking otherwise.

R180 genes contribute because identical twins have higher rate of having the same orientation vs fraternal twins, but its not 100% genetic because some identical twins have different sexual orientations to each other. Doesn't mean sexuality is a choice.

R181 I think if you have an attraction to vagina then you are probably a bit bi but I don't think fucking a ftm one time means you lose the right to call yourself gay een if you are 1% bi. And some pass ok with clothes on so I don't think an attraction them makes you bi (unless you fuck them). But most ftm do look like butch lesbians. The lack of cock would put me off ever sleeping with one anyway. People pressurizing you into fucking ftm are gross. No one is entitled for someone to have sex with them/be attracted to them for any reason wtf. I didn't mean that that is ok at all.

ftm need to realise they are a niche interest and to be upfront with their bio sex. Its not like a gay man is going to beat them to death because they realise they were checking out a tranny like mtf interested in straight men worry about (though any straight man worried about this needs higher standards, very few mtf aren't instantly recognizable or at least masculine looking).

R184 that article doesn't jibe with your original assertion that people aren't born gay. A genetic component means that people are born gay. Very few things are ever 100% genetic.

"It don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing."

186 I worded it wrong. I just meant being gay isn't 100% genetic and we don't really know if someone if 'born gay' or not.

Yes you're right r183.

[quote]The was a FTM on the last episode of I Am Cait, that turned me on a little

The one with the dark brown / black hair & tattoos? He was kinda hot, facially. There was nothing really "feminine" about him with clothes on.

R185 Of course sleeping with someone of the opposite does not instantly mean that the person suddenly stops being gay, otherwise gay women and men who have (reluctantly, obviously) been in opposite-sex relationships prior to coming out would cease to be gay. I'm talking about these so-called gay men who say that they are legitimately attracted to transmen/trans females, which really goes completely against the very definition of homosexuality/being gay. I know I sound confrontational, but this is something that has affected me directly and I'm just tired of it and tired of how being gay is being stretched and warped by people who are just not gay.

R191 *of the opposite sex.

R191 I understand, but for many people its not worth calling themselves bi when they are only very slightly attracted to women. Few very bi people are even out due to biphobia and sheer convenience. (I know many bi women who actually identify as lesbians because they don't date men and its not worth the trouble and obvs many bi men just pretend to be straight). Its an uphill battle youre fighting. And attraction with clothes on is very different to attraction to naked transmen, I mean some do actually pass. I mean its not like being gay means youre attracted to the same chromosomes as you have, it means attraction to the same sexual characteristics (which come from chromosomes causing sexual differentiation), so its logical if someone can artificially mimic these characteristics you might be attracted to them. Of course the most important sexual characteristic is the genitals which can't be mimicked convincingly. I agree attraction to female sexual organs makes you bi, but for many people its not worth mentioning if the only time they are is when theyre attached so someone who otherwise passes as male, because those people are so rare.

It's a shame because of a few exceptions you are being pressured into liking transmens but I don't think that means gay men who would fuck a transman don't exist (even if those gay men are technically bi).

R191 - I'm sorry you're getting pressured and guilt-tripped this way. That is NOT cool. I'm a gay man in LA with several trans (MTF and FTM) and gender non-conforming friends. And via those friends I've met several FTM trans guys, a couple of whom have propositioned me/asked me out. Some of them could "pass", too. But I've always politely declined them and just said that I'm an "old fashioned gay". I've never once been told by one of them that I'm transphobic or closed-minded or whatever for not wanting to hook up with or date them. I think maybe that's because they live in LA and travel in pretty liberal, progressive queer circles where they're not having that much trouble finding partners. I imagine it's more challenging for FTM guys in smaller or more conservative areas. I'm curious about where you live and whether you've got a more radical/angry FTM community in your neck of the woods.

Oh, and I share your frustration at men who call themselves gay or straight, but who are clearly bi. Those who sleep "mostly" with one gender or the other, but refuse to identify as bi. But, I think you just have to do what I do, give 'em your biggest Liz Lemon style eyeroll and move the fuck on. I think R193 is right. This is only going to get more prevalent with "heteroflexible" guys, "no labels" guys, "gay" guys who "sometimes sleep with women" etc. Yes, this nonsense is driven by bi-phobia and homophobia, but I don't think it's going to change.

R194 Maybe as homophobia decreases more bi guys might come out? But 'no labels' guys annoy the shit out of me. So pretentious.

I know, I know, R195. I'm with ya. Just do the eyeroll and move on.

R193 Yeah, I get it that having bisexuals call themselves by their actual name is an uphill battle. They use gay as some kind of front while moving around gay spaces, that is, until they wind up in a heterosexual relationship and then they switch to straight. I still believe in a concise and clear definition of what it means to be gay, even if the homophobes/sexuality is fluid/everyone is a bit bi crowd desperately wants to render us without language to describe ourselves. Check more "liberal" media sites or orgs and you will see the constant erasure of same-sex attraction from the definition of gay, all in favor of "gender identity" or, more recently, that trans people are whatever sex they identify as, as ridiculous as it may sound.

Lots of things are uphill battles, but I'm not about ready to give up on this one.

R194 I spend time between Latin America and Southern Florida.

FTMs are usually more masculine acting than gay men. And, if they have good facial features and body hair with a decent personality - a vagina isn't that big of a deal...to a guy who is mostly a top anyway & not into sucking dick.

R197 - I think you're focusing too much on "progressive" media, where, yes, these identity (or "no identity") politics play out with an outsized amplification. If you go out to majority-gay spaces often I think you'll find that there are still plenty of us gold star gays out there who can celebrate the socio-political victories of our trans friends without feeling any need to compromise who we are as gay men. You seem way too stressed about this shit. I know it's frustrating, but is it really impacting your life that much? Maybe it's different in South FL, I dunno.

R197 Most gay-identifying bi men won't settle into straight relationship because women won't accept/believe theyre not gay. Like they can write off a little as experimenting but theres only so many cocks you can suck before they assume things. Of course theres always lying. I haven't seen it happen but maybe it does when you get older idk? The one who go back to straight are always the ones who weren't properly out/ wouldn't be in a relationship with a man anyway. It seems to be more of a problem in the lesbian community (like LUGs) but eh, why stress about who someone else chooses to fuck unless youre in a relationship with them?

FTMs could get very very attractive men to fuck them at anytime if they just stayed women. All a women has to do is go into any straight bar or club and pick the most handsome guy there and she could get his dick in her so fast. A lot of those straight frat boys at the bars and clubs love anal sex with women.

If a biological female put an ad on craigslist for a guy to fuck her ass she would get 100's of replys. She could even make a living selling her ass and not have to work.

Don't FTMs know that they can basically have sex with 10x more men and men of higher quality if they stayed female. Females have the privilege and power in the sexual arena.

Isn't it strange how FTMs are like horny rutting chimps and that a lot of MTFs are like sexless prudes. Ironically the FTMs become way less desirable and fuckable even though their libidos go through the roof and MTFs that are passible now can attract 10x more partners but they lose interest in fucking and their interest mostly becomes their beauty regimen and preening themselves.

R201, why would someone who felt their bodies didn't match their minds stay in an outwardly female body and continue to suffer? Would you stay in a hetro marriage to gain financial and career advancement and acceptance from you family and friends?

R201 I think the changes in sex drive are due to the hormones.

Stop obsessing on the trannies, you horrid old cows.

R198 you are a perfect example of an obvious FTM pretending to be a gay man. What you don't seem to understand is that you can't pretend to be a gay man to other gay men. This is what many people fail to understand about minority groups, you will never know as much as you think you know about a particular minority group simply because you are a member of the out group which means you will never experience the group as a member of that group and will never be fully knowledgeable about that group. Rachel Dozale ( or however you spell her name) could have done everything she did while remaining a white woman but she wanted to experience everything from an insider's perspective and I'm sure she said some peculiar things ( like you just did) that were overlooked. The idea that FTM keep pushing about gay exclusive tops wanting or being open to fucking them is a joke, because it isn't true. I'm a top and I'm gay which means I'm attracted to men who were born men, I like the male form, smell/ pheromones.... I have no attraction to vaginas or the " men" who have them. Pushing BS like that only makes gay men hostile toward you and less supportive.

lol R205 - I am definitely not a FTM. Why you'd write a dissertation length post based on a retarded assumption is kind of funny though. And you think you speak for all gay men who are tops? Not narcissistic or anything are we? Would you like my skype name so I can show you my penis?

[quote]FTMs are usually more masculine acting than gay men

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[quote]FTMs are usually more masculine acting than gay men

[quote]AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

Um... Does the truth hurt? Lesbians are more masc than gay men too. FTMs are basically super-dykes.

Genitalia mattes. Natural hormones matter. They do. They just DO.

Well I ain't trying to say I'd go eat a FTM pussy nah - listen hunty... eyes sayin i'd MAYBE consider some of the hot faced FTMs to give me head or make out wif. mkay. And by the way pussay is much mo clean than the ass ho (where yo poo come out). So, why eyes gon fuck an ass ho when i could fuck natural pussay. plus all them testosterone shots make them horny all the time. aight bish. NAIXT!

Hey homos, meet your new boyfriend.

[quote]Um, given apes and humans are two different species, I'd say you are the one who is reaching, brah. r158

Um, "Ape" isn't a "species"," it is a classification containing several species - including humans.

Brah.

R206, you aren't gay or an actual man. And yes I can safely say that gay men aren't intetested in people with vaginas. The fact that you ftms keep forcing actual gay men to defend our sexual orientation by telling you that gay men aren't intetested in people with vaginas when defending our sexuality is something we've had to do our entire lives proves that you aren't a gay man. In your land of make believe you may be but not in the realm of reality.

r210 had some kind of mental breakdown halfway through her post.

Skype me bitch.

*Interested

Cutting off your tits, cutting your hair, taking testosterone shots, and wearing men's clothes does not make you a man. You may be a transgender man but you aren't a man.

You know all you homos want this. You twink-loving "I'm dicksexual I love penis so much that if I could cut a real one off and just fuck that for the rest of my life I'd die happy." losers.

I can't figure out how to post a "disposable" skype name. anyway, i dont want screen shots of my face out there... believe what you want.

This thread is rapidly approaching Spanish Model thread crazy.

Well often the 'transplanation' is that if a gay guy finds an FtM attractive and then drops the ball (or doesn't if you'll excuse the pun) when he discoveries certain biological realities, he is a shallow jerk. (to be fair not all feel this way) But that reaction is a defense mechanism to essentially being seen female/being triggered/invalidated etc. The illusion shatters. Sexual compatibility and gender identification collide like immovable object and (not so) irresistible force... S

o YOUR supposed to feel bad to save THEIR perception of themselves.

I have 3 bi friends ( 2 girls and a guy) and I asked them about dating transgender persons because I assumed that bisexuals and not gays would the ones who would be open to it. And they seemed to suggest that they believed that there is a separate sexual orientation in which people find masculinized women and feminized men sexually appealing. My friends stated that they like biological women who present as women and biological men who present as men and that bisexuals aren't necessarily attracted to transgenders. It is anecdotal and can't be used to generalize about bisexuals but I just thought it was interesting.

More homophobia in the form of posting hot FTM men you will never get a pass at:

R223 I'm crushed. CRUSHED!

no adam's apple = no sex

Is that ftm on the autism spectrum?

I don't care if I find the person to be "attractive" I find Joan Crawford attractive but i'm a gay man. I have a woman executive in my office that I think is highly attractive. Gay men can find women attractive. But not sexually attractive. A FTM may have an attractive face but no cock and balls so I won't be sexually attracted.

I can't wait to lick on those chest scars, and dive down on that metoidioplasty job that looks like a prolapsed clit and suck to my hearts content. Or pant with anticipation as they pump up their penis as i stare hypnotically at the large patch of stripped (now tattooed) skin on their abdomen or upper thigh.

I am tingling with anticipation...

Women who look like men (without a dick) are still women, and men who look like (ugly) women (and may or may not have an intact penis) are still men. Trannies don't seem to understand this. They also don't seem to understand the irony of expecting biological males or females to be attracted to them, and becoming upset when they aren't. Is there a correlation between being trans and having a lower than average IQ?

Transmen should date Transwomen or Transmen...oh wait...trans don't date other trans

It's okay, homos. Just grab that aforementioned cut-off dick and there's your "real man" sexual attraction right there because as we all know on DL aka DickpigLounge, a man is literally only a penis. You don't even need the rest of the shit that's attached to it. Just grab some sheers and the nearest 9 inch cock, because that right there is the true and only definition of a man (true story - look it up on Webster's, ya cunts) and your obsession with it is what make you a gold-star homosexual.

You don't seem to understand that it isn't about the dick it's about biology.

R231 Don't fret dear its all in your head...no literally, its ALL in your head.

Did you ever hear straight guys talk about women. Ohhhh dude look at those tits on her. What a rack! mmmmmmm that's a nice ass. Dude I fucked this girl last night whoa damn her pussy felt gooood! Straight male sexuality is tits, ass and pussy. A passable MTF with femme tits, ass and pussy can pull plenty of straight guys. It's easier to make a hole than a pole. But the estrogen is going to lower her sex drive and make her more emotional and sexually selective. She will have more dicks after her but she won't want 99.99% of them.

Gay male sexuality is all about the cock and everything that goes with it. The external and internal male parts that make the gay male sexual experience. The cock and balls, cum and the prostate contractions in the asshole for the bottoms.

In general male sexuality straight and gay reduces their sex partner to body parts. Yes it's tits,ass and pussy for straight guys and a cum shooting cock, balls and a male asshole with prostate for gay guys.

I am a bi guy (lean on how your gender id as feminine, not necessarily sex) and i would have sex with some of these fairly passable FTM's because they still have a pussy and can still orgasm like a woman. Basically a woman that is hyper sexual with more masculine interest sounds like a lot of fun. In addition, I would not touch some of them because some look too masculine for my taste . Also, I would even have sex with some MTF as well. With men, any that are more soft in their behavior; that is the opposite of me.

Also, did you notice that most FTM get freakishly hairy, bald like shit with a female body at it and that is what truly makes me get turned off so freaking bad!!!

I think i just hurt some FTM feelings

r235 i mean LITE feminine not feminine like some valley girl or a flamer

What exactly is "hyper" sexual?

Pssst! Someone tell R218 that men's shirts button left over right.

[quotete]Transmen should date Transwomen or Transmen...oh wait...trans don't date other trans

This is a good point. If genitalia doesn't matter, then gay trans people can happily date each other and avoid all the issues and judgement with which they accuse the rest of us. So how about it trans people, DO you date each other?

DO you?

r239

nope, i don't

I only date woman with vaginas and i prefer other straight and than bisexual girls because they are fem and prettier unlike lesbian. I am a STR8 FTM and I only like cis women

Honestly for me it isn't just about dick. I'm a top and I'm not particularly dick obsessed. For me it is about biological sex. I'm aware that one can change their gender presentation but we are unable to change an individual's biological sex. Therefore, even if a plastic surgeon was capable of creating a highly realistic dick and attach it to a FTM I still wouldn't be sexually attracted to them due to their biological sex.

r237

you moron

[quote]you moron

Ahh yes this of course answers the question.

right.

r243

What does hyper and sexual mean? Do I really have to give a fucking answer to your dumb question, you illiterate fool.

The pic at R218 looks like a dykefied Lance Black

Pisses me off when I see people go "ah yes, it makes sense if someone is a bottom since bottoms are penis-obsessed". No, it's never just about the penis. We're all gay men and attracted to all basic, integral, naturally-occurring male biology. Pretty interesting how perfectly their rhetoric aligns with conservative mindsets, i.e. bottoms are "too" gay and tops are "less" gay.

I don't know any trans men or trans women IRL, but for those of you who do-- how successful are they at finding mates? Do MTFs frequently find boyfriends, do FTMs find girlfriends, where the partner is straight and sees them as a true member of the opposite sex?

r247 i saw a video a guy who was a bisexual greatly leaning gay and transitioned and is now getting more dick than before.

I guess it depends

Op, no. I have never seen a ftm that I found attractive.. Perhaps it's from being an anthropologist, but I can tell sex very easily from bone structure and gait.

Have any of you hysterical posters ever considered that the men these ftms are hooking up with are straight, not gay? It would make sense if they are on the down low or conflicted about being gay, they would try to tell themselves ftms are women, so they are not having sex with a man. Kind of the same rationale they've been using for years to have sex with mtf trannies.

R250 As you can see from the many actually rational comments here, yes, we are well aware that no actual gay man would be hooking up with FTMs. That's the business of "kinky" heterosexuals and bisexuals.

I swear I'm not trolling here. And, to be honest, I'm not sure how I'd answer this. Recognizing that there is more to being biologically male than having a dick, if you (I'm talking to my fellow gay born-biologically male men here) met a gorgeous, smart, charming man for a first date who you were really into and at the end of the date he told you that he'd lost his entire penis in a freak lawnmower accident, would you go home with him or would you make an excuse, get out of there and never return his calls again?

You're right there IS more to being biologically male than having a dick. Namely being biologically male.

R252 There is more to being male than having a penis, yes. There are testicles, prostate, actual hormones, the fact that your body is not some life-size ruse, not to mention the sheer living experiences of actually being born male and growing up as a gay boy that simply cannot be experienced by heterosexual and bisexual females.

Your scenario is a really typical tactic among homophobic transactivists, just a warning. So what if you meet a male and you learn he has lost parts of his body? People still have the right to no longer be attracted to him. The idea that just because there was an initial attraction that it automatically means you are no longer permitted to say no to a person is just a really predatory way of thinking.

Vajeen feels better than ass hole... from having both... it just does. It cradles the penis and envelops it...it's so soft inside...

If a guy had a hot face and was a decent person, but had a pussy...it's not the end of the world for ME but whatever. I know I am freaking you all out with that. Apparently, now I'll be accused of being trans and fake posting as a gay man.

I don't think i'd eat pussy though, and I'd miss dick - so it would have to be open, probably.

[quote]Vajeen feels better than ass hole.

Mebby to those born after 1965, but I hate an over lubed ass or a slick cunt as I prefer a hole with a bit more friction. Cunt doesn't do that. Manhole does.

Some guys have such loose rectums though...all you feel is the sphincter. The average male girth is 4.8" and the average size of poo is often larger than that. There are plenty of guys I fucked where there's like nothing in there. The vajeen always has something gripping the penis.

R255 R256 R257 No actual gay man on earth is attracted to vaginas. Imagine an Lchatter saying that she likes penises - she would be appropriately derided and ridiculed for pretending like gay people are attracted to opposite-sex organs. Instead, here we get "sexuality is fluid" and "don't judge me, I'm definitely gay".

You've met every gay man on earth, R258? Or are you stating your fact and refusing to ignore anything that doesn't conform to it?

If you're response is going to be "the definition of begin gay is...." then you're talking about the definition of being a Kinsey 6, not a 4.

I mean refusing to hear anything that doesn't match up to your existing fact.

People don't like having to constantly defend their sexual orientation ( especially in a space where that shouldn't be happening) to people who want to redefine what it means to be gay.

R259 "My" definition of being gay is a person who is exclusively attracted to their same sex. "My" definition of gay is supported by virtually every dictionary on earth. What exactly do you have that shows that gay men are attracted to vaginas? Nothing, only typical "sex-positive" garbage that sounds frighteningly similar to something out of a catholic summer camp. Bringing Kinsey out of nowhere (very original) is irrelevant because it says nothing about what being gay means and is simply a scale created by a sexologist who predominantly worked with inmates to explain sexual behaviour.

R261 Very true. But I don't consider it my problem, its theirs. (And that shouldn't be equated with political lethargy)

[quote]Bringing Kinsey out of nowhere (very original) is irrelevant because it says nothing about what being gay means and is simply a scale created by a sexologist who predominantly worked with inmates to explain sexual behaviour.

Uh...that's the point, dear. It's a scale showing there are shades of grey between purely heterosexual and purely homosexual, and you seem fixated that there are only 2 sexual orientations. So, I am trying to help you understand there are not just 2...but if you can't understand it, then never mind. Oh, and it's been used in 100s of studies that have nothing to do with inmates by 100s of researchers. Go to the journal "Archives of Sexual Behavior" and do a search for "Kinsey" and see how many papers you find... it's not something that only applies to inmates at all.

R264 You don't think I am aware of the Kinsey Scale? Every thickheaded LGBT activist always brings it up when they desperately try to redefine being gay, just like you are doing right now - implying that gay can remotely be attracted to vaginas. The scale does nothing but present us with a wide range of bisexual behaviour and it does not, whatsoever, define what it means to be gay or pretend like people are not exclusively same-sex attracted. He even concedes this in the introduction where he says that his purpose is to show that there are not just "two discrete populations".

Again, being gay literally means being exclusively same-sex attracted, but go ahead and prove me wrong on this one with copious citations. Meanwhile, you can have Oxford, Webster, Cambridge, etc.

Yawn R265... you're very confused. I had Michael Bailey as my human sexuality professor at Northwestern, so I don't really feel the need to be educated by some random person on Data Lounge. Move along.

[quote]If you're response is going to be "the definition of begin gay is...." then you're talking about the definition of being a Kinsey 6, not a 4.

Uh, a kinsey 4 is bisexual, not gay. Why are you saying you're gay if you know that isn't true?

What's interesting here is that we as gay men are well aware of the fact that those with even the most miminimal attraction to women and vaginas would quickly and unequivocally claim to be bisexual and often claim to be "straight." Yet here we have people stating that they are sexually aroused by vaginas insisting that they are gay men. Yeah no agenda here.

I will always accept them as a woman that is wearing a man costume. Thus I will never truly be attracted to them once I know that small insignificant fact.

WW r261

they all look like/are dykes with beards, so no way

I think "Anthonynp" on Cam4 (live right now at 9:30pm PST) may be the FTM cam model that someone on here mentioned a while ago. I gotta admit, although I never thought I would consider sleeping with a FTM person, he's pretty damn impressive. He really could pass - you know - until you get downtown. Really handsome guy, thick muscular body, no birthing hips, masculine looking face.

R266 Yet again you fail to provide any evidence that shows that gay men are/can be attracted to vaginas or that being gay does not mean being exclusively same-sex attracted. If there is anyone who needs to "move along", it's you.

Tired of homophobic bisexuals.

it's never been my thing but there are guys out there where a masculine dude that still has a pussy are a dream come true. Guess they are bi. I have a long time friend that is pretty much his ideal when it comes to sex. The challenge he's had is that such people have a tendency to be really fucked up. He finally seems to have found someone not screwed up and they have been dating now for over 6 months.

Trannies aren't meant to be attractive, they are meant to be happy. Get the question right..

R275 If only their definition of "happy" wasn't strong-arming and guilt-tripping lesbian and gay people.

You usually can't tell. I can't wait until one of you whores ends up in bed with one waiting to get topped by some tranny with a clit/dick. it's gonna be funny.

Yeah you can r277. Weird scarred nipples, chipmunk male puberty voice, tiny hands and feet and the hips. Also the transition from looking like a cute young guy to Middle Aged schlub happens much quicker for FTM.

R34 yum¡ I would let him peg me.

I would let the guy at R34 peg me and totally make out with him, provided I would not go near that vagina. If we could make that deal, I don´t see why not.

Bump

[quote]R54 You aren't going to convince gay men to fuck you. If you want dick in your vagina so badly then you should have remained a heterosexual female.

Who says that’s what they’re after? They might want to fuck a partner with a strap on, do oral, receive anal…

Vaginas don’t cum simply from penile penetration alone, anyway, so that’s likely not their preferred route (?)

[quote]R55 I agree that is quite a messy logic salad from someone who thinks gay men could possibly want to stick their dicks inside vaginas

But, so many gay men here try to seduce straight guys with their “a hole’s a hole” logic.

You mean that’s not true??

I find some FTMs very attractive and would be open to dating them, so says this cis-gendered gay male. Yeah, yeah, some of you hateful transphobic bitches will say I'm bisexual. Fuck you, and I don't mean that in a good way. If the FTM identifies themselves as men, then you should respect that. Gender identification and sexuality are NOT mutually inclusive and I think that's the greatest lesson transgendered individuals could teach us if some of you were to get over your deeply internal self-hate. The transgendered tribe is a part of our LGBTQ+ community. Deal with it!

Let’s really get down to brass tacks:

If Lucy’s Mame had a penis, would you rather have sex with him, or one of the FTMs pictured in this thread?

Please discuss.

[quote]The transgendered tribe is a part of our LGBTQ+ community.

It's part of your community, r284. Fuck all the cuntboys you want.

I'm part of the gay community. I want men who have penises.

Sadly, this thread isn’t grayed out. It should be.

r286, cheer up you self-hating miserable transphobic bitch! They are a part of our community. Fucking deal with it! If this country loses its democracy, we'll all be facing some serious challenges.

[quote]cheer up you self-hating miserable transphobic bitch!

Wow. And people wonder why there’s no gay community left.

Bump

Gross! Those who prefer pussy to cock aren't gay and are not part of the club. It's a fetish/.

No, the one who’s gross is you, with your transphobic outdated cishet views! And no one is talking about pussies. Transmen don’t have them. They have girlcocks.

Let’s do a little simple math. Transmen = men. Gay men = attracted to men. Therefore gay men = attracted to transmen. Caprese?

Gay Sean Cody porn performer Deacon who is married to fellow Sean Cody performer Asher has recently done a trans porn video with FTM performer Stevie Trixx and has also done videos with FTM trans performers too.

R290 is DeFacto who, in his desperation for attention, usually signs all his posts but who also, because he's a troll, never signs his Bump posts.