What's the point of Australia and New Zealand being separate countries?

What's it to you, mate?

Come down here and I'll kick you in the kiwi. Hard!

Were they ever one country and then split? if not, it's rather implausible to suggest they join as one. And even if they were one, I doubt either country would want to give up its sovereignty.

Lol. Way to troll.

OP is awesome.

For those who don't know, it's a similar debate resembling the "why doesn't the US annex Canada?" trolling.

Many people down under seem to think that New Zealand is just an extension of Australia, which of course pisses off the Kiwis.

There's a little bit of truth in both the US/Canada and Aus/NZ arguments. Culturally, they're both so similar.

I used to work for a New Zealander. He was then and still is a notorious drunk, just like his three siblings.

Is there something in the water there?

What's so different about New Zealand and Australia?

one is big and hot and deserty, the other is cool and mountainous

i mean in terms of the people, not the landscapes.

[quote] What's so different about New Zealand and Australia?

What's the difference between the US and Canada.

It's the exact same question.

Canada has a bunch of people who speak French.

The US has a bunch of people who speak Spanish.

[quote] The US has a bunch of people who speak Spanish.

Are you a fucking moron?

The US has people from all over the fucking world. And they speak every language known to man.

You sound like a dimwitted freeper cunt, spouting off your usual stupid shit.

Americans speak Spanish, and French, and English, and Portugese, and Japanese, and Chinese, and German, and Korean, and Vietnamese, and Hindi, and Polish, and Russian, and every single fucking language on Earth that you could possibly imagine, you ignorant fucking fuck!

I can't tell you how much I hate stupid fucktards like you, who spout off ignorant shit all the fucking time.

R11 You're a moron. The only language spoken in the US that's comparable to French in Canada is Spanish.

Kiwis can't even get their vowels right: "fush & chups", "the ket set on the met".

The UK/Canada Troll is now branching out to write countess inane threads about NZ and AU. How creative our OCD Trolls are!

What's the point of France and Belgium being different countries?

R15

Those pesky Flemish might not agree.

They aren't really. New Zealand let the Aussies buy all their banks and now they cannot the investment they need for economic growth. Such stupidity is particularly foolish.

[quote] New Zealand let the Aussies buy all their banks and now they cannot the investment they need for economic growth.

Ozzie Ozzie Ozzie!!! OY OY OY!!!!

OP is a dickhead.

Australia, New Zealand, the US and Canada are extensions of Britain really.

R20, I would agree with respect to Australia, New Zealand and Canada to an extent. However, there are too many other influences in the United States for that to be true now.

Why don't Norway, Sweden, and Finland must merge into one country called Scandinavia?

"just" merge

Kiwis DESPISE Aussies.

R24 - Can the same be said for Canadians/Americans? Just asking.

[quote]Why don't Norway, Sweden, and Finland must merge into one country called Scandinavia?

Because Finland is Nordic, not Scandinavian.

Scandinavia is Denmark, Norway and Sweden.

The Nordic countries are Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland and Iceland as well as their autonomous regions (the Åland Islands, the Faroe Islands, and Greenland).

New Zealand is choosing between 40 entries for a new flag. Hopefully it will be this one.

New Zealand at one time was part of the Colony of New South Wales, which comprised of the entire eastern half of Australia and Van Diemen's Land (Tasmania). It was one of the earliest to be split off into its own colony. There's no need to reunite the two (Aus & NZ) since they've been divided long enough to form their own cultures, histories, and traditions.

The government of Antarctica should annex the North Polar ice cap.

Australia doesn't want New Zealand.

No, they've long wanted to annex BOLIVIA.

This should ne NZ's new flag

Ethnically aren't the Aussies the same as the New Zealanders? Mostly descendants of jailbirds that the Brits wanted to remove? I know the Aboriginals are distinct from the Maori though

R32 -- No. Different immigrant classes. No prisoners in NZ.

Oz has a heavy English/Irish influence. EnZed has a heavy Scots influence, thus the fesh, cheps, met, sex pronunciation of vowels.

Oz and EnZed are practically one country with the free movement of goods, services, and people between countries via the Trans-Tasman Agreement. Mostly it's Kiwis moving to Oz for the better weather and social benefits.

"EnZed"?

Both drink heavily, but the kiwis tend to puke it back up on the street.

I don't understand how people can afford to be drunks in Australia like so many are. I found going out and drinking there to be very expensive.

R35, NZ = EnZed

To Americans, it's "EnZee"

I get the impression that New Zealanders think of Ozzies as boorish louts (see: Canadians on Americans), while the Ozzies think of them as derivative secondary hicks (see: Americans on Canadians).

The movie Green Dolphin Street tells the story of immigrants to New Zealand. R33 is correct, they were a better class. These are the types (Lana Turner types) the went to New Zealand, which is why they are better looking people than in Australia.

Old Aussies joke about New Zealanders. What's the difference between an Aussies and a Kiwi? Answer: A kiwi has two chips on chips on his shoulder.

Second Aussies joke: What did the definition of foreplay in Australia?

Answer: Are you awake luv?

r42 Did anyone laugh when you heard those the first time?

When I visited New Zealand I was struck how, in general, they are a handsome folk: men, women, and children, both young and old.

R22, scratch Finland, add Denmark. Otherwise you may as well include Karelia and Iceland too.

Yeah...Finland is, like...different.

Nordic, Scandinavian....it's pretty much all the same thing anyway.

What's the definition of foreplay in Tasmania? Answer: Are awake mum?

Why do Aussie men suffer from premature ejaculation?

Because they can't wait to run down to the pub and tell their mates they got rooted.

(Rooted = fucked, laid)

New Zealand seems kinda boring TBH.

Why are British sheep farmers never lonely when they immigrate?

Because they bring their girlfriends with them.

People say New Zealand is like California before it got crowded.

People also say there is a streak of Texas braggadocio in Aussies.

"Everything's BIG in OZ, mate!"

New Zealand didn't have a convict presence, but neither did one of the Australian colonies (South Australia). The colonies of Fiji and New Zealand were involved in discussions of joining the Federation, but ultimately declined with only the Australian mainland colonies and Tasmania agreeing to join the Federation.

NZ is now outperforming Australia socially and economically. With our buffoon for a Prime Minister, NZ wouldn't want to join us anyway.

I flew from Christchurch, NZ to Sydney, it was a longer flight than I expected, at least several hours. If you look at a map, the countries are some distance apart.

I lived in Australia for a number of years but was a frequent visitor to NZ. Australia is culturally very different .. I would liken it to the difference between Canadians and Americans. Australians tend to be louder, more opinionated, more racist and more into having fun while NZers tend to be more reserved, lack a real strong sense of national pride, are more low key and less openly racists. NZ is run better politically than Australia and has a higher standard of living.

[R25] I don't think Canadians/Americans despise each other, but anti-American sentiment is part of the national character of Canada. Most Canadians would say 'well, at least we're not American'

Aussies in general are braindead, boorish, violent rednecks. Kiwis in general are polite, nice, funny country bumpkins. The natives in Oz were quite primitive, and have been brutalised and herded into reservations. The natives in Nz were relatively developed, able to put up a fight and enjoy the same rights as anyone. Part of the difference has to be the climate but I think only Oz having convict origins plays a massive part. Also the parallels between the US and Canada are pretty uncanny.

New Zealand has gay marriage, Australia does not. New Zealand is generally cooler and wetter than Australia, less rich, but more pacifist (eg unlike Australia it did not take part in the 2003 Iraq War and is a nuclear free zone). Australia also took convicts unlike New Zealand. Culturally New Zealand is closer to Canada or the UK, Australia to the US (Queensland and Western Australia are not that different from the South in the US)

While waiting to finalise their Australian residental status, two Afghanistani men start chatting. As they part, they agree to meet in a years time and see who has adapted better to the Australian way of life.

True to their word, they meet after the year is up. The first says to the second, "We have integrated so well...yesterday, I ate a meat pie and drank a VB while watching my son play Aussie rules, and we own a Holden VK Commodore."

The second man replies "Fuck off, ya towelhead."

Historically they were very different, with Canada the most conservative and New Zealand the most progressive.

That was the best joke on this thread, R59.

in that case what's the point of all of the German-speaking countries being separate countries? Shouldn't Germany, Austria, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein and Switzerland be one Teutonic paradise? We could add in Bohemia and other parts of the Czech Republic, Alsace-Lorraine, Kaliningrad, Western Poland and southern Denmark. I am surprised no one has ever considered this before.

Hold up r49:

Rooted = drunk/wasted

(had) A root = sex

Haha, thanks r61. I felt bad after calling out r42 on those lame dad jokes, it was only right to post a better one :P

[quote]Australia also took convicts unlike New Zealand.

Australia never took convicts. Australia did not exist until 1901. Some, but not all, the colonies that became states of Australia had convicts.

Prior to 1901, New Zealand was no different to New South Wales, Victoria, Queensland etc. - all colonies of the British Crown.

R69 Yet I believe it was a colony which was not a convict destination

Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, Greenland and the Faroe Islands were all settled by Norse (Vikings). Finns are descendants of some Central Asian people.

I;ve even heard people from Latvia and Estonia call the selves Scandinavian.

New Zealand: Scottish. Signed treaty with the Maori. Australia: English. Committed genocide on the Aborigines.

The Gays need to take over New Zealand (we DO need a country of our own) and rename it "Liza With a Z-Land."

Leave us out of this.

New Zealand is poorer than Aussie. It takes some real gymnastics to make them look the same.

Dialect difference: Aussies pronounce fish and chips as "fresh and cheeps" and Kiwis pronounce it as "fish and chups."

Oops, I meant "fush and chups."

R69 The English were always more better at genocide and more importantly, getting away with it.

Where is Old Zealand?

R67, Finland is a relatively new country. It was once part of Russia.

R76, in the Netherlands.

It's become harder to differentiate between Aussies and Kiwis since the Trans-Tasman Agreement, which saw a huge migration of Kiwis to Australia for the superior weather and social benefits.

Why are Argentina & Uruguay separate countries?

New Zealand is considered to be part of Polynesia as well as part of Australasia.

R69 The Scottish accounted for only 20% of settlers to New Zealand. The reason there was no real conflict with the Maoris was because most of them lived on the North Island, while the colonies were mostly on the South.

Did the NZ flag change go through? Yeah, I can google, but don't feel like it.

R80, wars, revolutions, invasions by the British and Portuguese, distance, regional differences, economic needs, etc., hastened the breakup of the Viceroyalty of the Rio de la Plata into separate countries (Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay, Bolivia).

R83 - I took the 5 seconds to google it, and no, they voted to keep the current flag.

R69 That's some astonishing re-writing of history, right there.

As someone else pointed out, the Scottish were a minority and weren't the first wave.

The reason Maori's had a different outcome was because: A - in the racism of the day, they weren't "black", they were of a Polynesian lineage and closer therefore to white. B - their societal structures were more comprehensible to the Europeans than the Aborigines'. C: The Maoris were warriors who were happy to bloody some noses. They stood about a foot taller on average than the Europeans and were fairly intimidating - see the Haka... D: The Europeans and Maoris had intermarriage from the start. And the list goes on...

Bottom line, the English (and others) were as happy to exploit the Maoris for land etc, as much as they did anyone else's (in common with other empires of the day (and now, arguably)). But they didn't reserve the same bigotry for them as the Aborigines. And that changed everything. As did Aboriginal society being nomadic, diffuse, less war-like etc...

I've lived in both countries.

Kiwis generally are more liberal, not racist, have more pride in and are more committed to protecting the indigenous culture, aren't homophobic etc, etc. They have a work hard, play hard culture but a good work / life balance is absolutely enshrined. They're more connected to nature, the environment etc. They've championed and pioneered a lot of equal rights - first country to give women the vote, for example. They're the most literate country on earth and buy the most books per capita. They're dry, witty, adventurous.

Australians went from being very British to being quite American in a relatively short time. It's an amazing place, but has become more conservative in recent years, partly because of the demographics of recent immigration bringing those values. Racism is still more of an issue there. The way Aborigines have and are still being treated is a national disgrace. But of course, that's not true of many Australians and it is still a wonderful, dynamic, beautiful and enriching place to be.

But NZ is truly special. From my experience.

Both Australia and Aotearoa (Maori for Land of the Long White Cloud, or Land of the Wrong White Crowd for the insiders) are "special" if you happen to be White and Xtian. If you're not, they're pretty much of a muchness, the same bigots and racists with slight accent variations. Maoris are as wretched as the Australia's Kooris/Aborigines - European destruction of culture/heritage, high alcohol/drug/domestic abuse, high percentage of prison population - but because Maoris retained control of their land and because New Zealand has made a recent, half-hearted attempt to mainstream something that passes for Maori culture, White New Zealand figures they've done their bit and have nothing to answer for. And because New Zealand, like Australia, is not of strategic or political importance and completely off everyone's map, they can do what they want in their own self-interests, and there is no one to tell them otherwise.

Disagree, R87.

I'm friends with many Maoris and Aborigines. Their experiences have been very different.

Yes, particularly in the North Island, there are still issues created by historic land grabs that impact Maoris and some of the problems you mention definitely exist. Drugs, gangs, poverty - all disproportionately affecting Maori communities.

But crucially the difference is they're primarily old problems playing out. They're a legacy of less enlightened times and the inequities they left behind - they're not generally perpetuated by modern Pakeha (European Kiwis). On the whole, contemporary relations are very good and there have been ongoing efforts to repair the damage. There's more to be done, but Maoris are visible and successful throughout New Zealand life. Many tribes own land, run diversified business portfolios and invest in return in keeping their culture alive. Maori kids can grow up realistically aspiring to success in any field.

A big clue is a huge percentage of kiwis of European descent have Maori blood. There has never been any shame in inter-marriage. That shows attitudes on a very real level. That did not happen in Australia.

The Aborigines have suffered cultural genocide for centuries and many Australians still refer to them as the "Aboriginal Problem" - managing to completely bypass how Europeans entirely created all and any problems.

[quote]but Maoris are visible and successful throughout New Zealand life. Many tribes own land, run diversified business portfolios and invest in return in keeping their culture alive. Maori kids can grow up realistically aspiring to success in any field.

Pakeha mindset. That some Maoris have had some success in the Pakeha world has been done at the expense of their identity and culture. Sure, that Maori kid can grow up to be successful at anything . . . except being Maori.

The jailbirds are in the US

Australia is the US, NZ is Canada.

R87, my mum is Scottish and my dad is Te Aupōuri; and though we do struggle with racism as all countries do, NZ is light years ahead of Australia or the US with regard to its treatment of indigenous people.

The Maoris constitute a far higher percentage of the total population, compared to the Aboriginal population of Australia.

Australians have the lowest IQ of any developed world country. Kiwis are quite smart. Why would the latter want to join up with the former? It'd be like Stanford merging with Texas Tech.

R95 you will find you're wrong. The average IQ of Australia is the same as the US. NZ is one point higher

I meant R94

R95 -- My point well proven. Thanks.

Dad visited both countries and told us that, as a whole, the NZers were prim like English Canadians and the Aussies were like Texans.

Australia and New Zealand are hundreds of miles apart. Now Britain and Ireland being one country...

Why do we have separate countries at all? Why not just do away with national boundaries and form a new world order?

There are vast cultural differences between England and Ireland, no way could they become one country.

R101 I know, I was being sarcastic.

Just to point out some things about Aus.

The country is huge. It takes 6 hours from where I live ,in Victoria to get out out of the country to go to say Europe. New Zealand is about 3.5 hours from Melbourne( capital of state of Victoria) by plane.

While the centre of Australia is made up of dry spots and desert, it also has large areas of rain forests and some areas have a climate, not unlike New Zealand.

The state of Victoria, where I live ,can have bushfires in summer, but also has a climate not dissimilar to some of New Zealand. In Winter it can be very green and lush and there are parts where you can ski. It can get pretty cold and is a large populated state by Australian standards.5.7 million and a State Capital of Melbourne.The population of which is about 4.5 million.

It is incredibly culturally diverse and if two cities had a personality, it has been said that Sydney ( the biggest city in Australia nearly 5 million people) is more like America and Melbourne more like a European city, sometimes specifically London.

The reason, besides the climate, Melbourne , colder and wetter and therefore a much more in door society in Winter and Sydney, more of a outdoor society, is also reflected in its history. Though both Sydney and Melbourne have amazing beaches.

While Sydney was the first city in Australia, Melbourne because of its rich pastural lands, English Climate and more important than that, the discovery of Gold in the 1850s, meant that by the end of the 19th Century Melbourne was one of the richest cities on earth and one of the most important in the British Empire. It was where the first Australian parliament sat in 1901 and where it remained until 1927, when it moved to Canberra, a city founded so that Sydney and Melbourne did not fight over who was first in the country and pretty much is set in the middle of them both.

Melbourne, was proud of its place in the British Empire and its Englishness, but as the Empire fell apart and after World War II, a huge influx of Italian and Greek emigrants arrived. Melbourne has the largest Greek population outside of Europe. They also have a large Vietnamese, Chinese, and Indian population.

This melting pot has taken a large time to evolve, but Melbourne is certainly one of the most culturally diverse cities I have been too. Politically I would equate it slightly to New York. Though conservative in some ways, it is one of the most liberal cities I have been too and has a large Gay community. Tends to vote Left as a majority , but still has a large conservative vote. Though Religion really does not play a part at all like it does in the US

Just thought I would share, so if we are making huge geralisations we can make them slightly smaller. Of course this is my opinion, other Melbournians will give you theirs.

What's the point of the United States and Canada being separate countries?

I mean, there's no difference between them. They're even on the same continent!

You know, I'm genuinely fearful of what all of the Americans think of Australia on this board.

I live in Queensland and no, it is absolutely nothing like America – please look up any recognised index on the standard of living, healthcare, education – anything, and you'll see that the two countries are entirely divergent.

Having been to, and lived in both countries unlike many of you, I can assure you there is no Australian equivalent to the 'down south of America' R58. No guns, no extremist groups – Australia's basically bereft of patriotism too.

There are some places in the US, I wouldn't live. Middle America, namely. That said, there's nowhere in Australia, other than the absolute uninhabited middle that I wouldn't live. Melbourne, Victoria was actually voted the third most liveable place in the world. Brisbane, Queensland, where I live ranked 18th.

Was Auckland first or second on the list? It's usually up there depending which index you look at.

Also, R98, the average IQ of the United States would probably be trailing behind Canada, Aus, NZ and many other developed countries – it usually does when it comes to academia.

[quote] Why are Argentina & Uruguay separate countries?

My understanding is that neither Brazil nor Argentina wanted the territory to belong to the other, so the country was created as a buffer between the two. They almost went to war over it.

R103 What a complete WHITE wash of the reality of life in Australia. You've described the idyllic Oz life if you happen to be White and Xtian. If you're not, it's a completely different bigoted, racist country.

Sydney, AU is 2155 km or 1340 miles from Aukland, NZ. That's further than the distance from NYC to Miami, 1283 miles. And it's all over water.

I never said anything about rascism r109. I didn't mention it because this thread was becoming about how bigoted and backward Australia was.

I was discussing Melbourne, specifically. I don't think I mentioned the Aboriginies and before you start discussing that , not every thread about the US discusses American Indians.

Personally I feel we have treated the Aboriginies appallingly. Part of the reason is because they did not fit the European definitions of what a "noble savage "looked like and partly because we did not have large scale wars with them, like the Maori wars. We have treated them badly.

But do I believe Melbournians are more rascist than Americans, absolutely not. We have huge racial divides, but they are nothing like America. Nothing

Yet another thread appears that compares Australia to the United States on a mostly American board filled with eldergays yet to leave or learn about countries beyond the boarders of their own.

R109, simple solution, and it doesn't usually work – Google the statistics. To say that Australia favours Christians compared to areligious America (?) is wrong when almost half of the US identifies as Protestant.

I think the US honestly has the remnants of some of the most conservative "xtian" views you'll find in any country. Australia's LNP – the 'conservative party' is in many ways more liberal than the Democrats.

Melbourne's pretty progressive. I find it hard to believe that it's 'racist'.

[quote]I was discussing Melbourne, specifically.

Yeah -- Dad said Melbourne was more prim than Sydney but not as prim as Christchurch

[quote] on a mostly American board filled with eldergays yet to leave or learn about countries beyond the boarders of their own.

Yet another assumptive ass who believes that he knows the "true" Australia.

R115, who are you?

Perhaps they are different cultures separated by 500 miles worth being two different countries.

It has cenosrship policies that would put even Germany to shame.

Who does, R118? I'm looking at RWB's index and NZ is ranked 5, Germany is 16, Australia at 25.

All three do fine on other rankings of censorship:

R115/109 sounds like a phony. I'm pretty sure he's the guy who shows up in all these threads about Aust/NZ spouting "trooths". Either he had a bad experience on a visit once and therefore believes his experience is exemplary of life in these countries, or he's just trolling for reactions. I wouldn't bother engaging, R116.

SIMILARITIES: Native cultures that are their own worst enemies, and wish to perpetrate their shithouse cultures, while blaming whites for everything, but happy to parasitically suck on the social welfare teat of hardworking whites, who are encouraged to feel generational guilt, and and accept a warped rewriting of history and culture.

One has no mass shooting

My mom doesn't know the difference between Sweden and Switzerland despite me living in Switzerland.

When the Australian states proposed federation each state (including New Zealand) held a plebecite to decide if they would join. New Zealand chose to remain a seperate nation. The Australian constitution still includes New Zealand, so in the unlikely event they ever change their minds they can still join the federation.

Australia can annex NZ anytime. It’s smaller and weak

[quote]There's a little bit of truth in both the US/Canada and Aus/NZ arguments. Culturally, they're both so similar.

Sure there are similarities between the U.S. and (English) Canadian culture. Many Canadians move to the U.S. and are able to feel at home, and many Americans move to Canada and are able to feel at home, more so than they would in Norway, Greece, Japan etc.

But there are some big differences. Canada has more in common with Europe in some ways than it does with the U.S. (eg. Canada has socialized medicine, abolished the death penalty decades ago, has a stronger social safety net, had gay marriage years before the U.S., etc.)

Plus, there is the Quebec/Francophone factor. Quebec has a different language and culture, and would probably not want to join the U.S.

R99 and R101 Gt Britain and Ireland were one country starting 1801. Didn't last long.

Why are they countries at all? Wouldn't they work better as US states? Hawaii isn't that far from there. It's a natural progression.

They are THOUSANDS of miles apart, for one thing.

NZ is further from Australia than you think.