Actors from old movies you can't stand

[quote]Leslie Howard. Always seems like a ghost onscreen--there's almost no energy there. I've never been able to figure out why he was a star.

For a second I got him mixed up with Trevor Howard...I think I'd say the same about him, but I only ever saw him in Brief Encounter.

Norma Shearer.

Joan Crawford was grotesque as an actress. Bogart called her Jekyll and Hyde, not because of her off screen persona but because of her inability to convey emotion on screen without gross facial contortions. I can't watch her in anything.

Helen Lawson. Drunk, crazy, and a ball-busting bitch.

Has OP seen Leslie Howard as Henry Higgins in Pygmalion? I always thought as you did about Howard, but he's terrific in that. Very energetic, brusque and brash, domineering...even sexy. It's like it's a totally different guy than the one who did American movies a few years later.

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Madonna

I NEVER understood the popularity of Roz Russell or Loretta Young. Good actresses I'm sure but with the exception of Auntie Name The Bishop's Wife and Come to the Stable, I can barely contain my contempt.

And let's not get started on Grace Kelly and Bing Crosby!

Russell was great in His Girl Friday and Young was as well in The Stranger.

I love Norma, Roz, Loretta and will watch them in almost anything they made. I even like Betty H on occasion. I love Joan C in some of her movies from the era, but she made a lot of bad ones that I can't watch. Never liked Bing or Leslie, in anything.

Grace is beautiful to watch in her 3 Hitchcock movies, but a bore in the others. No wonder she retired early.

I have problems with many of the leading men of the 30s. They seemed artificial in the brutish masculinity they were trying to project. This includes Gable, especially, and Robert Taylor, Cagney, Flynn, Cooper and their lesser copies. Only Cary Grant and William Powell I like from the 30s.

Leading men got much more interesting in the 40s, when they became more complicated -- Bogart, Ladd and even Cagney suddenly became watchable.

I agree Hitchcock was the only director who could make Grace Kelly interesting. He saw her as sexy; everyone else saw her as prim and proper.

Norma Shearer is great in her very early talkies, when she was still slim and pretty sexy. But once she married Thalberg she always played excruciatingly noble roles, and became too much a "great lady" like Greer Garson (an actress I cannot stand). It also didn't help that she became a little thicker.

Gable was also a much better actor when he was young and sexy; he drank so heavily that he lost his looks by the late 30s, and also feel into the same dull routine. But if you see him in something like "Night Nurse," he's unbelievably magnetic.

I agree with R10 about those 1930's leading men. And they became even more annoying as they got older and started playing love interests to actresses almost 30 years younger (especially Gable and Cooper - Love in the Afternoon is pretty scary to watch). But unlike you I also find Cary Grant annoying - he played the same character over and over again for almost 40 years and had that constant smirk on his face. For me he's passable only in Hitchock movies and in Bringing up Baby.

Richard Harris

OP, until you see these actors (especially Leslie Howard) on a large movie screen (their films were shot to be shown that way....even a large screen tv isn't large enough), you can't always properly evaluate their abilities and charisma. I know for most people, that's not an option, but if you live in NYC, I suggest you go see them at MOMA or other places that screen classic movies on a large screen.

I don't like bland, nondescript actresses like Betty Grable and Rita Hayworth. I actually think Rita H. was kinda ugly. Flat face, eyebrows like crescent moons.

Yes...get your ass to MOMA, OP.

Loretta Young genuinely had acting talent. The Criterion edition of "Rebecca" has the screen tests of many of the great Hollywood actresses of the day for the part of the 2nd Mrs. de Winter, and Young's is fantastic--she is genuinely fragile and moving in a way no one else is (even Joan Fontaine, who comes the next closest). Although Vivien Leigh and Margaret Sullavan are two of my favorite Hollywood actresses, they're both wrong for the part and rely on things they've done before: Leigh plays the character as minxish (which is completely wrong for the part), while Sullavan plays her as neurotic rather than as insecure. Young was of course far too glamorous for the part, but the screen test shows how good she could be when given the chance when young.

Later, of course, she became a grand lady like Garson and Shearer and Crawford, and smothered her talent in mannerism.

Norma Shearer

Betty Hutton made ANNIE GET YOUR GUN unbearable. Bitch was dreadful.

I've seen every one of those actors on the big screen. My opinion of them still stands.

[quote] I also find Cary Grant annoying - he played the same character over and over again for almost 40 years and had that constant smirk on his face. For me he's passable only in Hitchock movies and in Bringing up Baby.

How about his goofy performance in "Arsenic and Old Lace"? He wasn't smug in that one.

[quote]I've seen every one of those actors on the big screen. My opinion of them still stands.

Good for you, that 'see them on the big screen and have your mind changed' suggestion was lame.

I always had a grudge against Humphrey Bogart for not shooting Leslie Howard the moment he saw him in "Petrified Forest".

ddddddddddd

Katharine Hepburn. Ugly as fuck, scenery chewing ham.

Never liked Irene Dunne

Or Norma Shearer

Olivia de Havilland

Jill Clayburgh.

The Marx Brothers

I never liked Vivien Leigh until I saw her on stage in the musical Tovarich.

Shirley Temple.

Doris Day makes me puke, Barbara Stanwyck givess me hives. Merle Oberon simply looks evil. John Wayne please keep burning in hell!

Clark Gable. I know he was a huge star but I just can't stand seeing him on screen. He's always got a look on his face like he's constipated.

John Wayne is another--he played the same character through his entire career. The same voice, mannerisms, body movements. The only time he actually showed he could act was in The Shootist and then he died.

Jeanne Crain was insufferable. Am I the only one who couldn't stand Joel McCrea? Rock Hudson while beautiful, acting wise bored me to tears. Can someone please explain the appeal of Jerry Lewis especially without Dean to me? I STILL don't get it! BTW Mickey Rooney talks like a pimp in almost every oldie I saw him in. Very creepy.

Jimmy Stewart and his stammering and mumbling. Get your fucking words out man! If it wasn't for the movie Harvey I'd hate him for eternity.

Well there is The Philadelphia Story where you don't need a translator!

Wow, I disagree with y'all. Gary Cooper was v sexy in Saratoga Trunk, Clark Gable--okay postwar, not so good unless you count Misfits but It Happened One Night and those comedies with Jean Harlow were great, Leslie Howard, I cried buckets during Petrified Forest, loved his voice. John Wayne in Stagecoach. All were very sexy.

I have wondered if Leslie Howard was on morphine.

Totally agree with Jeanne Crain, who nearly ruined every movie she was in. Zanuck insisted she be cast as Eve Harrington in All About Eve, but Mankiewicz refused.

R37 I'm glad Crain didn't get the Eve part, but Anne Baxter wasn't exactly right either. She didn't strike me as being much a threat to Bette Davis, and anyway she was too short for the gestures.

June Allyson - AAAAUGHHHH! My god why????

While I don't hate her, I've never understood the appeal of that watery tart Esther Williams.

Rex Skelteton

Charlie Chaplin

Actually, any male "comedic" actor whose specialty was playing drunk. I never understood what people of the time found amusing about slurring, fall down drunks.

R39 You're so right. There was nothing more vile than June Allyson grinning ear to ear in her Peter Pan collars. Someone please suffocate it.

However, she did have talent, as I get guilty pleasure watching her in Little Women, The Opposite Sex and a few other of her sappy movies.

How can anyone not like James Cagney or Irene Dunne!??

I think they were head and shoulders above their peers as far as magnetic talent. I've seen almost every one of those listed above in movies I love, but other than the two I mentioned, I get how they could really get on your nerves too.

I'm an older gay person who for the life of me does not get the appeal of Bette Davis.

I like her in Now, Voyager and Baby Jane, but that's about it.

Several years ago a friend of mine dragged me to a revival theater showing the movie Jezebel, and I was so bored and underwhelmed by both the movie and Davis' performance that I ended up nodding off during the middle of it. (Of course it didn't help that the film was directed by William Wyler.)

And don't get me started on All About Eve.

Kathryn Grayson looked downright peculiar, and there was something very wrong with her breasts.

Lana turner Glenn ford Sandra dee I agree that grace kelly is boring and flat

I heard Howard Keel perform in Epcot in Orlando, like in the 90s, and thought it was so strange.

(Kathryn Grayson poster reminded me of it.)

Charlton Heston

Kirk Douglas

It's hard to believe that Mickey Rooney was the most popular actor working in the early 40s. Hated him in his youth, despised his more and more as he grew older.

Betty grable

R-43, Have you ever seen The Old Maid?

I cannot stand Danny Kaye.

Aw, I love Irene Dunne in The Awful Truth, My Favorite Wife, Love Affair, Theodora Goes Wild, etc. What's not to like? Also, Roz Russell was fantastic in His Girl Friday, The Women, My Sister Eileen, etc.

Couldn't bear Betty Hutton. I tried watching Incendiary Blonde but had to change the channel. Her loud, shrill, playing to the back of the room style was too much. Jimmy Durante was another who needed to tone it down.

Danny Kay is unbearable, even in small doses.

Red Skelton is a close second.

Ann Blyth, except for an amazing performance as Veda in Mildred Pierce.

Van Johnson was a top leading man in his day, but I never got his appeal. Bland looks and a pompous air about him. June Allyson was his female counterpart. Not pompous, but bland looks and zero sex appeal.

I know it is blasphemy, but I think Monty Clift stank up EVERY movie he was in with his weird zombie acting style. It was so freaking pretentious!

I hate to say this, but I really dislike Fanny Brice in every movie I've seen her in. (Admittedly, only two.)

Oh, and Lana Turner stank too. She barely got ANY better over 20+ years!

I've never been big on Spencer Tracy.

I can only stand Roz Russell in His Girl Friday.

Henry Fonda never did much for me, and I just cannot handle Gary Cooper.

Esther Williams....couldn't stand that bitch!

Clark Gable looks like he's so pleased with himself, and I find him ugly. Ugly.

James Stewart oes that self-satisfied eyebrow lift and "get a load of me" mouth pucker that drives me to drink. Stupud voice.

Roz Russell: I can stand her in His Girl Friday but otherwise, she seems like a man. I don't see her as a woman. Something inauthentic about her.

Bette Davis does nothing for me. I never care if her character lives or dies.

Give me Miss Barbara Stanwyck, Carole Lombard, Judy Holliday, Cary Grant, Laughton, EG Robinson, and a little Jean Arthur, introduced by my celebrity husband Robert Osborne, and I'm happy.

JAMES STEWART - Stuttering, fumbling, incoherent, hick goofball who obviously "Punk'd" his way to screen stardom. With that said, I enjoy several of his movies IN SPITE OF HIM. Although, I've always found it laughable how the audience was expected to believe that he could actually romance all of the legendary beauties of the day (Hedy Lamarr, Grace Kelly, etc).

BETTE DAVIS (at her worst) - BD had few peers when she was on her game, but was appallingly bad at her worst!!! So mannered, uptight & stylized to the point of being ridiculous. (See "Mr Skeffington", "Phone Call From A Stranger", "Payment On Demand", etc for examples). Crawford made her share of stinkeroos as well, but she was NEVER as bad as Davis at her worst!

JUNE ALLYSON - During the first few years of her screen career (early to mid 40's) she had a youthful freshness about her that was somewhat appealing. As she aged (rather quickly) all that was left was a sexless, irritating harpy attempting to be cute. Unwatchable.

DAN DAILEY - Unattractive & Unappealing. Never bought him as a romantic lead in anything! I'm still baffled as to how Susan Hayward could actually give up her fabulous career in fashion for him in "I Can Get It For You Wholesale".

SPENCER TRACY - Nothing charming or appealing about him. An overrated waste of space. Played himself for decades.

AUDREY HEPBURN - Never been interested in any of her films, nor have I ever found "her look" appealing. Completely overrated.

DORIS DAY - Too wholesome & too sickening sweet for my tastes.

BING CROSBY - His onscreen portrayals were about as bland as his music.

Another vote for DANNY KAYE!

I totally get why some hate Kathryn Grayson, Danny Kaye, June Allyson, Red Skelton and Jeanne Crain but many of the other choices are mind-boggling to me. These can't be real cinema fans.

Even Betty Hutton, who I agree was shrill, was perfectly wonderful in The Miracle of Morgan's Creek.

Oh, Jeff, the polka dots DID make you look fat.

Katharine Hepburn. Ugh.

As much as I like Jane Wyman, whoever told her she could sing should have been taken out back and shot!

And that ex of hers wasn't exactly Olivier was he?

Fugly Jane Darwell. With the exception of The Grapes of Wrath, horrific in every movie.

The less said about Arthur Kennedy the better!

Anthony Quinn was wonderful up to Lust for Life. Then he was terrible after that. Yes that includes Lawrence and Zorba.

I won't say I can't stand her, but I sure as hell don't care for Susan Hayward. I really don't know how she got away with such ridiculous effects, but on occasion (twice) her weepy, wallowing, brawling style may have worked for the part.

Danny Kaye Danny Kaye Danny Kaye. How that man had any sort of career is beyond me.

Betty Hutton could be too much - but you're right about Morgan's Creek - written specifically for her by Preston Sturgess and she's charming, delightful and quite funny. Her singing voice is incredible, I think, and underrated.

As a member of the Violently Allergic to Danny Kaye cohort I am ashamed to admit this, but he's fantastic in an old radio play I heard online in which he plays a cold-blooded killer. Turns out Kaye is perfectly cast as a glib psychopath-- that terrifying emptiness underneath the superficial charm. Perhaps he was playing himself.

Can't stand Cary Grant. The toxic levels of smugness he gives off in virtually everything he did, his inability or unwillingness to relate to the other actors in a scene... ugh. Just entirely up his own ass. Watch him in a weirdly prim love scene with poor Eva Marie Saint in North by Northwest-- he actually has his legs crossed when he's kissing her! It really makes you wish that Hitchcock had done another movie with Robert Donat, who was a MUCH better actor and a much sexier picaresque hero in The 39 Steps than Grant could ever be. Donat is the epitome of dashing in that-- relaxed, but not so ultra confident that you forget he's probably scared to bits. God, I love him.

Paulette Goddard was mediocre at best. But l DO love how she upstaged Claudette Colbert in So Proudly We Hail! Now THERE'S some balls!

Edmund Gwenn is another one l can't stand. Although his cousin Cecil Kellaway was the bomb! Check out The Luck of the Irish. Wonderful.

Link to Danny Kaye in Suspense at bottom of page--

Leslie Howard, Van Heflin, Joseph Cotton, Glenn Ford, Dana Andrews, Alan Ladd, Richard Widmark, Victor Mature

Betty Grable, Kathryn Grayson, Mitzi Gaynor, Jane Wyman, Barbara Stanwyck, Joan Blondell, Jane Powell

R62, check out Doris Day in Love Me Or Leave Me-- she's fascinatingly unsympathetic in that, to the extent that you feel sorry for her abusive boyfriend (James Cagney, superb as usual) and root for him to slap her around some more, the ungrateful bitch!

And I like Bette Davis *because* she's mannered and stylized! I have a weakness for over-the-top anything. I'd rather see a bad performance by Bette Davis than a good one by the anemic anorexics we have to contend with nowadays.

Frank Sinatra. He had some great roles, but he added so little to what was there to begin with that you can go down the list of his movie credits and almost instantly think of another actor who would have been as good or better in every role. When you're watching him it's like he's always careful to let you know (usually with a smirk) that, "Hey, it's me, Frank Sinatra up here acting and never forget it!"

Steve McQueen is another one from the same "Never forget it's me" school of acting.

That's the ONE Doris Day movie I LOVE!

Gimme some Cagney any day!

Glenn Ford, Van Johnson, Van Heflin, Fred MacMurray, Robert Cummings--now these are actors whose movies I avoid.

[quote]Anthony Quinn was wonderful up to Lust for Life. Then he was terrible after that. Yes that includes Lawrence and Zorba.

Anthony Quinn is the reason I can't stand La Strada - the only Fellini movie that makes me cringe.

R78 needs a hug and a DVD of Zorba the Greek to soothe his troubled soul.

At least Fred MacMurray was in Double Indemnity, R77.

Can anyone explain Robert Cummings to me? I look at him and think How? Why?

Debbie Reynolds annoys the shit out of me.

Dale Evans was just as bad.

My distaste for Tony Curtis made me dislike Robert Downey Jr and Judd Nelson on sight. In later years his cat eyes procedure made me hate Burt Reynolds AND Kenny Rogers.

I agree Bette is good even when she is bad...

Besides Little Women did June Allyson make even one good movie?

R79 Are you going to serve that DVD with ham or cheese? You talk about over the top! Zorba is a lot of things. Soothing is NOT one of them!

I always loved Grace Kelly - especially in Rear Window (the Lisa introduction scene is particularly beautiful) but I agree - when she wasn't working with Hitchcock, the performances always seemed empty.

Now, Joan Crawford and Judy Garland - get in the fucking sea of lava. Crawford for the ridiculous over-acting and Garland for that irritating voice of hers. And I could never take to Elizabeth Taylor either.

Spring Byington OWNS this thread! Seriously.

Hepburn - both of them. Katharine was the most annoying, mannered bitch in movies. Audrey, totally overrated. She's been built up since her death and now ranks the 3rd or 4th greatest of all time. Ridiculous.

The nerds - dumb fugly guys in romantic leading roles. Jack Lemmon, Jimmy Stewart, etc.

Robert Taylor, does anyone on planet earth take this no-talent seriously?

On a TV tangent, Ann Blyth's guest shot on Murder, She Wrote might rank as the worst "Old Hollywood" acting on that show; she looks ridiculous (trying to pass herself as much younger with too much makeup and a bad wig), and gives a mannered, back-of-the-theatre performance (you know you're bad when Wings Hauser is easily upstaging you).

What I like about June Allyson is her voice. If I see her in a movie it's because there's another actor whom I want to watch. I can't recall any titles offhand.

Martha Scott. Our Town. YES!

Ben-Hur. OH HELL TO THE NO!

That goes for her wretched performance in The Ten Commandments too.

Bing Crosby is the reason I've never been able to get through "White Christmas."

What an hilarious thread. I can understand Danny Kaye, Leslie Howard and a few others but most of these luminary stars had SOME good points, hence their iconic status. Wow, a lot of you sure seem to have mental illness issues. Who doesn't simply adore Doris Day, for example?

On my list are the aforementioned Danny Kaye. Add Red Skelton. And Jerry Lewis. I am not a big Marx Brothers fan, either, since I learned what assholes they were and how once people worked with them, they hated them. Mostly the comedians/comics who were supposed to be funny are not funny to me in the least. Annoying and over the top. Then again, what was considered funny back then was very different. Physical pratfall comedy was a "thing."

Never liked Marlon Brando.

Mickey Rooney. He was an obnoxious punk.

Paul Newman. Handsome, sure, but his acting consisted was one smirk after another.

Agree with the hate for Jimmy Stewart and Loretta Young. Couldn't stand the Marx brothers or the Three Stooges. Ugh. Glenn Ford and Fred Mc Murray. Ugh. I don't even know how they got famous.. Ditto for Dana Andrews and Robert Taylor. Zero talent, dreary looks. Danny Kaye and Red Skelton always got on my nerves. Claudette Colbert and Jane Wyman. Never cared for Debbie Reynolds much in her early movies. Now that she's an old broad with a sense of humor I guess she's OK. John Wayne is in a class by himself. There's John Wayne and then there's everyone else. Close second is Ronald Reagan. I have a passionate hatred for both of them. Then there was Broderick Crawford and Robert Ryan. Always made me really uncomfortable. Couldn't stand them. Eddie Albert was another one. That's enough for now. This thread is taxing me.

Amen, R90. Knowing what dreadful people certain performers were off-screen has rendered me incapable of watching them, irrespective of their other qualities.

For the person up thread who can't stand Tony Curtis: Curtis was famously vile during the production of The Persuaders and disliked by the British cast and crew (Roger Moore, on the other hand, as everyone knows is a nice chap; his friend Terry Nation, while not what I would call a nice chap, was extremely funny and charming as all get-out).

Bing Crosby and Frank Sinatra were singers, not actors. Even though they were in films, they are still mainly singers.

[quote]Paul Newman. Handsome, sure, but his acting consisted was one smirk after another.

Never seen Hud or The Verdict?

Anthony Quinn was also wonderful in The Shoes of a Fisherman. Disagree on whoever said he was awful in Lawrence. No one could have brought such a larger than life, fearsome yet witty performance. A true force of nature.

Brian Keith, Kevin Costner, Buddy Ebsen, and John Wayne, to name a few.

Nicholas Cage is OK is some features, but too overdone.

r80, I recently saw a trio of movies with Robert Cummings -- The Devil and Miss Jones (a supporting part as Jean Arthur's boyfriend), Kings Row (the leading role who falls, incomprehensibly, for crazy Betty Field), Princess O'Rourke (playing an airline pilot who falls for a woman, Olivia de Havilland, who turns out to be royalty) -- and while he's only passable in Kings Row, he's quite magnetic and sexy in The Devil and Miss Jones and, especially, Princess O'Rourke, where his comic timing is impeccable.

Cummings, Dana Andrews and Van Heflin are among my favorite actors of the 40s.

The #1 actor I can't stand: James Stewart. Somebody up-thread mentioned that the only movie of his they like is Harvey, which, to me, is Jimmy Stewart at his most Jimmy Stewart-ness and thus the movie is unwatchable. That said, there a number of movies featuring Stewart that I love -- Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, Winchester '73, Bend of the River, The Far Country, Rear Window -- but it's because of other qualities (the directing, the writing, the other actors).

Don Ameche, ugh!

r100, agree about Dana Andrews and Van Heflin - very underrated

Loretta Young was probably the worst of the major leading ladies back then

I have to agree with others about Danny Kaye and Red Skelton. I love old comedies but I have never seen one of their movies that I really enjoyed and wanted to see again. Especially Red Skelton; watching a grown man act like a baby in a crib was painfully unfunny.

I too think Dana Andrews and Van Heflin are usually excellent, and both underrated interesting actors. I loved Van Heflin as the bomber in "Airport"!

I never heard really bad shit about The Marx Bros.? I know Groucho was a depressive and could be cold, but I never heard they were difficult to work with.

To the guy who doesn't like Fred MacMurray, give him (and Stanwyck!) a try in the excellent Christmas themed "Remember the Night", and we can all put that overrated Jimmy Stewart vehicle to bed forever. It's directed by Mitchell Leisen with a Preston Sturges original screenplay. It's quite a good yarn, and MacMurray is excellent in it.

[quote]I know Groucho was a depressive and could be cold, but I never heard they were difficult to work with.

Interesting trivia on imdb.com from the director of Duck Soup:

Leo McCarey told Cahiers du cinema in 1967: "I don't like (Duck Soup) so much...I never chose to shoot this film. The Marx Brothers absolutely wanted me to direct them in a film. I refused. Then they got angry with the studio, broke their contract and left. Believing myself secure, I accepted the renewal of my own contract with the studio. Soon, the Marx Brothers were reconciled with (Paramount)...and I found myself in the process of directing the Marx Brothers. The most surprising thing about this film was that I succeeded in not going crazy, for I really did not want to work with them: they were completely mad."

I have to say that I love Bette Davis, Barbara Stanwyck, Cary Grant, James Cagney, Dana Andrews and occasionally Jimmy Stewart and Katherine Hepburn. I understand what the thread is about, I have already posted my dislikes and I respect others. But I will feel bad all day if don't stand up for the greats. And Audrey Hepburn :)

I think that with the passage of time, I can now better enjoy classic movie stars who bring their persona to the forefront, even if it means that different characters all meld together. I am a sucker for Cary Grant BECAUSE he is always Cary Grant on the screen. Familiarity breeds comfort, especially when it is consistently charming and self-effacing.

Bette Davis: More of an actor than Cary Grant. Her signature is less persona than a willingness (or compulsion) to go over the top, time and again, and I cannot resist looking. Perhaps this is why Madame Sin remains my favorite of her roles.

James Cagney and Doris Day. Love them both. And when they landed together in Love Me or Leave Me, I flipped. I think it might be Cagney's greatest performance.

Agreed on Grace Kelly. She's a bore. No charisma. Beauty for a fashion layout, not the movies.

Mickey Rooney: See link for a late third-act defense:

What about Robert Montgomery? He spawned the delightful, charming and beautiful Elizabeth! But he had that awful smirk and no range as an actor.

I really fucking hate Tom Ewell.

Who thought he could hold the screen with blonde bombshells?

One of the things about Hollywood stars both then and now is that they mostly make it big when they're young and fresh and wonderful, and they keep getting cast in lead roles as a result. But they lose their charm and become parodies of themselves unless they're really, really good. So their best movies are often the ones they did in their youth.

One reason lots of people don't like Joan Crawford, for example, is that they only know her from her post-MGM films, when she was middle-aged or elderly and mannered and looked like a Kabuki performer. But during her MGM period she was beautiful and fresh and exciting. Same with Bette Davis, Spencer Tracy, and Clark Gable. All four of them drank a lot, and it affected their looks and their performances.

[R15] If you think Rita Hayworth was ugly you need glasses. i know talent and looks are often subjective but some of you seem like saying shit just to get a reaction.

My list is;

Debbie Reynolds- Cannot get her appeal at all, she's been living off her one decent movie SITR for over sixty years now. She doesn't seem to have much talent at all.

Joan Crawford- Even for camp value cannot stand her films or her wooden phoney acting (on or off screen)

Humphrey Bogart- I know he is regarded as a 'great' actor but jeez he was one note, ok at playing touch guys, but very wooden and artificial when required to show emotion. I can never forgive him for ruining The Treasure of the Seirra Madre for me. The film is great up to the last half hour when good old Bogie hams it up like there's no tomorrow. he was meant to play mad, but he chews all the cacti for miles around. Terrible! Walter Huston and Tim Holt carry that movie with their very good acting.

So everyone here loves Alice Faye? I've always adored her and thrilled to see she hasn't made any of your lists.

Alice Faye must be forgettable, ergo why she's not popped up yet.

Here are few others NO ONE (surprisingly or not) has mentioned:

Lauren Bacall

Fred Astaire

Ginger Rogers

Marilyn Monroe

Gene Kelly

Sophia Loren

Margaret O'Brien

Hedy Lamarr

Joan Fontaine

Olivia de Havilland

Luise Rainer

Paul Muni

Veronica Lake

Jean Harlow

Joan Blondell

Jeanette Mac Donald

Nelson Eddy

Jean Simmons

David Niven

r114 - Who the fuck doesn't like Joan Blondell?

She was in the racy Night Nurse (1931) with Stanwyck and went on to do Cassavetes in Opening Night, arguably his greatest film.

I loved her!

I just saw "The Elusive Pimpernel," and discovered David Niven was HOT. he did one long scene in a steam bath with just a towel on and he had a very good body for his day.

Jimmy Stewart's "aw shucks" shtick in every picture wears me out. He is unwatchable. Norma Shearer and her eyebrows and hand-fluttering bother me. I'll forgive Davis and Crawford any cinematic sin, but, Stanwyck, I find too harsh and pointy in speech and looks. Both Hepburns I find over rated and Spencer Tracy saddens me in everything. I'd like to smack Jerry Lewis in the face with Danny Kaye.

[quote]Bing Crosby and Frank Sinatra were singers, not actors. Even though they were in films, they are still mainly singers.

Yeah, but Crosby knew he wasn't really an actor, Sinatra thought he was.

Besides, Bing was a big marijuana user, and admitted in an interview he was completely baked most of the time he was "acting" and that earns him slack in my book.

R118 the way he beat his kids I thought he was on crack.

[R111] Watch Debbie in A Catered Affair, she's quite good in it. I LOVE me some Bette, but she's so miscast.

For r116:

I just don't understand the lack of love for Barbara Stanwyck. Ball of Fire, Meet John Doe, The Lady Eve, Lady of Burlesque, Remember the Night, Christmas in Connecticut... so many delightful performances. And her bad girl pre-code films are a hoot. She gave it her all.

Damn! Up until 114 no one had mentioned Ginger Rogers and I thought I had a scoop.. That stiff-necked, leaden bitch couldn't even dance when her duets with Fred were sped up. Acting or sex appeal were never even within her range. Her mother must have been blowing the boss because I am sure Ginger never would. If you have any doubts, watch The Black Widow sometime

[R123] Really don't agree with this at all! Ginger was a very good comedic actress and to say she was a bad dancer means your opinion is void. Jimmy Stewart is unfairly derided here because he was a personality actor, well guess what so are most stars now dipshits. Also, he was not always giving the 'Aww shucks' thing, have you actually watched him in The Philadelphia Story? or Anatomy of a Murder? or Its a wonderful Life? he could be very convincing especially in emotional scenes. i think some of you are blinded by your prejudices of some of these stars, you can't see them objectively.

Now, Marilyn Monroe on the other hand, along with her mate Jane Russell leave me cold, dull dull dull on screen and they really had no range at all! Forget the likes of Hepburn, Stewart or Davis, these two broads were crap actresses and even worse in musicals.

r124 - You have got to be fucking kidding.

r124 What were the musicals that Hepburn and Davis were in ( excluding Bette's valiant war effort in Stage Door canteen) that prove they were "worse" than crap.

I was speaking of Russell and Monroe not Davis and Hepburn!

I hope NOBODY has mentioned the great William Powell yet as he's one of my fave comedic actors. You better not bitches if you know whats good for you. His screen style is timeless, very natural and still funny over 60 years later, unlike Red Skelton Danny Kaye, Jerry Lewis etc!!

Don't like Barbara Stanwyck, but Sorry, Wrong Number is one of my favourite in suspense. And the radio play, with the great Agnes Moorehead in the lead role.

If you think Betty Hutton was abd, you don't want to get a load of Martha Raye or Judy Canova. Stepin Fetchit is totally unwatchable. And Bob Hope is not wearing well. Graham Greene nailed it when he wrote about Shirley Temple as the template for JonBenet and the rest of them.

Kim Novak and Cary Grant. June Allison. Abbot and Costello.

This may seem like heresy, but aside from "Breakfast at Tiffany's," I've never much liked Audrey Hepburn. Her delicate little china doll persona always grated on my nerves. I found her vastly overrated. I'd much rather watch Vivien Leigh!

I hate simply Everyone!

I win!

A lot of folks bring up Tony Curtis. How about that ex of Janet Leigh? Psycho was about it for her. That terrible wig and an equally rancid performance is why I STILL can't get through Bye Bye Birdie!

A woefully miscast Paul Lynde didn't help matters either.

I'm going to confess my hatred for Gary Merrill, even though he was in one of the best movies of all time. Mannered (with acting tics), loud, and always looked a good 20 years older than he was. Weird face, too.

I'm surprised that Norma Shearer's not more popular on the DL. I loved her.

Robert Young

This thread is postitively CLEANSING! I agree with just about everyone, except for whoever lumped in Errol Flynn with 30's actors displaying "brutish masculinity." I urge you to look again at the graceful, elegant, fleet-footed Flynn!

Who could hate Jimmy Cagney? The greatest stars were all pretty specific, so I get that he is gonna bother someone. But he is hardly ever mentioned and that is a shame. He was the greatest with his tough punches and pointed toes and portrayals of brutal malice and intense charm. A hot Irish tapping gangster, the ultimate Warner's star. People should talk about him every damn day.

Some Dataloungers just freak out if other people have different tastes than they do. Look at the reactions on this thread.

Another vote for Tom Ewell and for David Wayne - Marilyn Monroe got stuck with both of them. When she was opposite a powerhouse male star like Robert Mitchum - she sizzled even more. But opposite Ewell in The Seven Year Itch and Wayne in How to Marry a Millionaire, she wasn't given anything to react to - accept how ludicrous the pairings were.

Danny Kaye, Henry Fonda, Robert Ryan. And on the ladies' side: Jeanne Crain Jane Powell Kathryn Grayson Carol Lynley

Janine Franciscoco from "I'll never cry". Awful.

It's kind of satisfying to see how many other people can't stand Danny Kaye. Everything he said and did was profoundly annoying, including his guest appearance on "The Muppet Show." I mean, you know a performance is bad when even a theater full of muppets can't take the stink off it.

Jerry Lewis, even with Sinatra. I find him grating.

Danny Kaye

Bing Crosby

Glenn Ford

Lee J. Cobb. Interesting in On the Waterfront. Avoid in anything else. His noisiness in The Song of Bernadette really irritated me. That kitchen scene with the great Ellen Burstyn in The Exorcist was out of context with the rest of the movie. I wished Pizuzu would've got him instead! Absolutely horrific in Golden Boy and The Brothers Karamazov. The latter wasn't a good film but I believe it's Shatner's debut. I might be wrong.

Comedians rarely are appealing after their eras. Humor is very dependent on its time.

Dry humor ages well. Broad humor--not so much.

I simply could never bear Zasu Pitts!

One name you'll never see in this thread is Myrna Loy, loved by all.

Myrna was lovely. Sean Young used to remind me of her (in looks).

Mia Farrow, saw her in The Great Gatsby. Her performance was so irritating! She basically plays a naif/pixie in all her movies.

Katharine Hepburn, I just suffered through A Long Day's Journey Into Night, and it felt like it. She's over the top, when she shouldn't be. The performance was a tad more hysterical than Suddenly Last Summer. She's never learnt subtlety in acting. Overrated! And what's with her and high collars? She seems preoccupied in hiding her neck in SLS, and off screen.

Woody Allen, plays himself in every movie: an adult trying to bed a teenager (Manhattan), or someone slightly older. Creepy.

Audrey Hepburn, I too don't understand the fascination people have with her. Saw her playing a blind character. It was dreadful. I think the thing with her was that she was the fashion designers favorite, 'actress'. Which isn't saying much.

The poster who said a true judge of a performance is watching the movie on the big screen may be right. I watched Double Indemnity in the theaters recently and while I always thought Barbara Stanwyck is great (for some crazy reason she gets mentioned in this thread) I think now she was about 10 times better and gave the best performance of a bad girl ever...

R151, I have read that Katharine Hepburn had a bad complexion-- not spotty but dehydrated and sun-damaged from years of playing golf and tennis-- so this may have accounted for the high collars as she aged.

And Audrey Hepburn is indeed terrible as Susy the World Champion Blind Lady in Wait Until Dark. I don't really blame her, though, as the movie is very dated and stagy. Her only really good performance IMO is in The Nun's Story, where she turns off the gamine charm for once and is wonderfully depressive and austere. Peter Finch is marvelous in that as well.

God, I absolutely adore threads like this!

Wait! No one mentioned Walter Brennan? Same character in every movie and horrible at it. You think the Oscars are all politics now. This fool got 3 Oscars for playing the same person! He was in his forties when he won but looked like he was 60 in most of his films. Truly wretched!

Ray Milland's popularity has always puzzled me.

As for Ginger Rogers' performance in "Black Widow", it's probably the worst of her career.

R145, the role was written for him if memory serves well. Lee J. Cobb was good too in Twelve Angry Men, or at the very least memorable.

Ray Milland had an interesting career: reliable leading man with an urbane persona, branched out into more dimensional characters as he aged. I think he makes a terrific bad guy in Dial M for Murder, and he has great chemistry with Grace Kelly (they were shagging one another rotten off-camera). Then things got weird-- I mean, he's the only actor in Love Story who gives a good performance, and then all of a sudden he's in The Thing With Two Heads screaming "IS THIS SOME KIND OF A JOKE?" when his head gets transplanted onto Rosey Grier's body. That he is able to play such WTF-inducing nonsense straight is a tribute to his acting skill.

"Frogs" is another Ray Milland head scratcher. It's only worth watching because Sam Elliott obviously went commando during filming and his big cock is clearly displayed beneath his jeans.

Sonja Henie couldn't act, boring, hated her voice and accent

Mickey Rooney, I liked him as a kid but now he's an annoying twirp

Jerry Lewis, again I liked him as a kid and now I don't because I know too much of what a jerk he was to others

Three Stooges, not into physical abuse comedy

Marlene Dietrich, I like her in photographs but I think her voice is too deep, never saw any sex appeal

Robert Walker for having a weasel voice

How could Paul Lynde have been woefully miscast in Bye Bye Birdie when he originated the role on Broadway?

I still can't picture Mickey Rooney fucking Norma Shearer after Irving Talberg died.

Or, Joan Crawford fucking a young Jackie Cooper.

I can't picture Jackie Cooper at all.

Rod Steiger: hammiest of all the Method Generation

[quote]The poster who said a true judge of a performance is watching the movie on the big screen may be right.

I think so too. For example I always thought of Rope as minor Hitchcock, and I never cared for Farley Granger. But recently I saw the movie at the Film Forum, and not only did I appreciate it more, but Granger actually comes across as effective - especially during the last 10 minutes or so when the character starts freaking out that they're about to get caught. It's very funny. Seeing the movie in a theater reminded me of the expression, "See it again, for the first time."

[quote] How could Paul Lynde have been woefully miscast in Bye Bye Birdie when he originated the role on Broadway?

Did anyone anywhere ever believe him as a heterosexual family man, or was that part of the joke?

Robert Walker. Seriously?

r155, I usually can't stand Walter Brennan, but I recently saw the 1943 Fritz Lang movie "Hangmen Also Die!" where he is quite effective -- and cast completely against type -- as a calm, intellectual history professor. I couldn't believe it was the same actor I'd seen ruin so many other movies.

Jennifer Fucking Jones

"How could Paul Lynde have been woefully miscast in Bye Bye Birdie when he originated the role on Broadway?

Did anyone anywhere ever believe him as a heterosexual family man, or was that part of the joke?"

Who are you calling a joke?

Judy Holliday and Doris Day.

Bing Crosby. Never liked him as an actor and he was an awful person, too

John Wayne

Hey Ray Milland and Ginger Rogers haters!!! Watch them in The Major and the Minor. A brilliant lesson in comedic acting, written and directed by Billy Wilder.

I agree wholeheartedly about Jennifer Jones, however, who never gave a sincere and real performance on the screen in her entire career.

You don't go to a Sonja Henie picture to watch her act.

r176, my former girlfriend Sonja was a great lady!

I liked Jimmy Stewart in Rear Window and The Glenn Miller Story. Otherwise I can't stand him. There are a host of B movie actors like Glenn Ford that I find unwatchable.

I'm sorry. I still don't get Rex Harrison! If that's what you call acting, I need to stop watching movies!

He makes my ears bleed when he "sings". I never cried so much as a child when I was DRAGGED to see Doctor Dolittle. Annoying and excruciating! I flinch every time I think about him.

Anyone remember an actor called Paul Douglas? He was in some noir crap. Anyway I saw a movie with him, Robert Ryan and Barbara Stanwyck and he was repulsive. I think in the movie she was married to him and she cheated on him with Robert Ryan and then someone got murdered.

I never could stand Dana Andrews.

I liked Paul Douglas in a Letter to Three Wives. Never saw him in anything else

Here's my take on Robert Ryan. I also had a hard time watching him to the point of often turning the channel. He makes me very uncomfortable. Bad Day at Black Rock is a good example. The thing is that he was a great actor. He played bad so well it made you squirm.

[quote]I never cried so much as a child when I was DRAGGED to see Doctor Dolittle.

Your tears were justified. That film is unwatchable.

R182 I agree about Ryan. He was a great actor, but he had beady eyes that hurt his looks. He was poor in romantic leads because he looked sinister and shifty. Too bad because I read he was a nice guy who had a good liberal political view of life.

I agree r182. I just watched Crossfire for the first time. He really, really creeped me out in that one. So much I'm convinced that wasn't an act. And to think that hack Edmund Gwenn won over him is stunning!

I wholeheartedly agree about Phyllis Isley aka Jennifer Jones. With the exception of The Song of Bernadette, she really stinks up the joint. She was absolutely horrible in Duel in the Sun and Love is a Many-Splendored Thing. And she was nominated for both! It didn't help matters Gregory Peck and William Holden just as terrible in those films.

Am I the only who thought she got what she deserved in The Towering Inferno? I know. I'll die in a horrific grease fire!

[quote]People should talk about him every damn day.

After sober consideration, I think that the Hollywood actor to date with what I consider cinematic charisma is Jimmy Cagney. If there was a second place, I don't know who ever came close!

Abbott & Costello are like a root canal!

Jennifer Jones is deservedly forgotten for the most part. She can't even be as phony/talented/interesting as Joan Crawford, who could really CARRY a mediocre movie by her watchability!

Walter Brennan went to my high school as I've posted before. They give out a cash award to an student actor every year. Thirty-four years ago it was $300., not so bad, but I had no idea what an offensive, nasty, inhuman racist asshole he was then! I just knew he was famous and grabbed the loot! I almost want to convince my old high school to stop honoring him, and start a fund for a better scholarship, in honor of my whole graduating class. I think it would be a good thing to do, Brennan was a dirtbag! An elderly man who played the piano for our chorus classes had been in his graduating class with him!

Another vote for Abbot and Costello and Judy Hoilday. Bruce Dern is borderline unwatchable to me.

I've really loved the dislike for Danny Kaye and Jennifer Jones. Always found him annoying, and her so mannered. Felt like I was crazy for such views. Thanks, DL.

I know I might be in the minority but find Joseph Cotton to be incredibly boring. OK I'll give him The Third Man but other than that...

Am I the only one who HATES Hugh Griffith? A horror in everything including Ben-Hur and Tom Jones. A voracious drunk to the end and this played out on the big screen in a very nasty way.

I think Judy Holliday is horrible in everything except Born Yesterday. Why was she even a star?

I NEVER understood Greer Garson either. With the exception of Mr. Chips which she was absolutely wonderful in, she was tepid at best in all of her performances.

Gladys Cooper. There's another one l can't stand! Horrific in every movie! Although she was tolerable in Since You Went Away and My Fair Lady, there's a reason why she never won the Oscar!

Gladys Cooper was in Now, Voyager. She's sacred.

Katharine Hepburn is likeable in a handful of movies and unbearable in many. Clift sucks me into a black hole of despair. Katharine is pretentious and put on, and not physically attractive. She's really rather rat-like.

Clift meaning Montgomery Clift.

R191 is a blasphemer! NOBODY could play an icy bitch better than Gladys Cooper-- she is the snootiest meanest hag you've ever seen in That Hamilton Woman, and of course an epic monster of a malignant narcissist mother in Now, Voyager. In short she is amazing and I won't hear another word of criticism against her.

When Gladys Cooper passed, Noel Coward quipped, "Well, no problem, we still have Cathleen Nesbitt." Meaning they were virtually interchangeable. Which they were.

Please add Miss Ann Sothern to the list of loveable stars that everyone still admires. Except for those late career bad turns as the Countess de Framboise Whatsis in those Lucy Show monstrosities.

I'm sorry she was so wasted during most of her MGM career in the Maisie movies but she manages to shine even there.

I think the reason I find Robert Ryan unwatchable in so many movies is because he has a mean face. Permanent sneer, and I've read that he was a very nice guy as it was mentioned above. He did OK as a Military man in war movies, but when he played someone's lover or husband he made my skin crawl. I feared him.

R191

If you wear your glasses, you will be less of a shock. Take off what is on your face. As to your hair and eyebrows... say that after an illness, one loses one's hair... but you're letting yours grow.

Ernest Borgnine and Ethel Merman. Both loud, grating, hams.

Just imagine the offspring they could have created together, R-200.

Robert Ryan was about to marry Maureen O'Sullivan and become Mia Farrow's stepfather when he was diagnosed with cancer and died very soon after.

Paul Douglas was cast to play the Fred McMurray role in "The Apartment", but suffered a fatal heart attack shortly before filming began.

Did Noel Coward ever say anything nice about anyone?

RobertRedford. His films are getting pretty damned "old" now. He annoyed me when I was a kid and he's even creepier and more annoying now.

The people who most annoy me are the comedians mentioned in an earlier thread, mostly the Three Stooges and Abbot & Costello, Danny Kaye, Martin & Lewis, Red Skelton.

There are those like R191 who wear bibs when they eat, but, generally speaking, they are not persons of influence.

I saw Lucy Gallant a few nights ago. I know Charlton Heston was an enormous conservative dimwit but damn was he hot in that movie. Jane Wyman was excellent too.

I never liked Katherine Hepburn, June Alyson, James Dean, or Red Skelton. RS had that same smarmy vibe as Robin Williams.

KathArine Hepburn. Hate her and spell her name correctly.

Paul Douglas was good in everything, and really had a great career. He co-stars in one of the only two watchable Lucy-Desi Comedy Hours, and is quite good in it.

Lee Marvin

Tom Ewell

Peter Lorre

Rex Harrison

Thelma Ritter

Danny Kaye still works for me in "The Court Jester" but then it's a terrific script with good comic moments for other actors too.

James Dean "You're tearing me apart!" Oh, if only I were...

George Kennedy-big dumb oafish dolt

Frank Sinatra-love it when he gets electrocuted in "Suddenly"

Have long disliked some of those from the 50's like Gary Merrill, Barry Sullivan, Barry Nelson, Ralph Meeker,, Hugh Marlowe

Shocked and saddened that Joan Blondell would even be mentioned once here!

Glad that William Powell and Myrna Loy remain above the fray.

Loved watching Cagney's AFI acceptance speech again. His comic timing and delivery there make me wish he had gotten to work with some directors like Lubitsch or Sturges.

Lee Marvin was brilliant in Point Blank, an underrated film.

You can bad mouth Gable to kingdom come, but Carole Lombard is a goddess!

I always found Red Buttons (what a pretentious stage name!) to be very annoying!

I never been fond of Russ Tamblyn outside of WSS.

Am I the only who finds Eve Arden to be very irritating?

Eve Arden always seemed to be chewing her cud.

Jack Lemmon seemed to be having a nervous breakdown in every film he made.

Gregory Peck? I don't get it.

I can't change the channel fast enough if I should come across a John Garfield movie.

Jane Wyman was always boring to me

And so was her ex-hubby, Ronnie

Jimmy Stewart, Mickey Rooney, Cary Grant, Jack Lemon, Frank Sinatra.

I feel the same way about Merman. But l DON'T feel that way about Shelley Winters. Loud, crass and coarse actually worked for her. I just have to turn the volume down when watching her movies especially Cleopatra Jones, A Place in the Sun and A Patch of Blue.

Poor Jack Lemmon, he did always seem on the verge of a nervous breakdown!

Jerry Lewis makes my ears bleed Watching Abbott & Costello and The Three Stooges is like riding a rabid bull into a burning barn Woody Allen makes me want to cut over and over again

Happy to see Maureen O'Hara has not made the hate list

Darn autocorrect took out my punctuation [221]

NEVER ever liked Walter Matthau. Fugly and one note. His acting and singing in Hello, Dolly! Is a big no no!

Never liked the biggest ham Hollywood has ever known Thomas Mitchell.

R213, anyone who can't appreciate the nuanced , heartfelt performance of Russ Tamblyn in the multi Oscar winning drama WAR OF THE GARGANTUAS is someone too evil to live!

I'm baffled by all of the Jeanne Crain hate here. Not because I'm a fan or think she was all that good. Frankly she strikes me as far too bland & milquetoast to evoke such strong feelings in viewers good or bad!

I enjoyed Miss Crain in "A Letter To Three Wives", the excellent minor thriller "Dangerous Crossing" & a cute little sorority flick titled "Take Good Care Of My Little Girl". Not a great actress or personality by any means. Just an adequate leading lady who served her purpose.

nominated for an Oscar for Pinky

Robert Benchley. His shorts on TCM are unbearable.

Also Katharine Hepburn in madcap mode. She is close to unwatchable in Bringing Up Baby and yes, Zoe Kazan, she is the Ur-Manic Pixie Dream Girl.

Team Walter Matthau. Jack Lemmon was either a sanctimonious ham or a slappable irritant.

Shirley MacLaine, Lord help me. Sweet Charity needed shut the fuck up.

Rex Harrison was one of the worst actors I have ever seen in his early career. Heaven Can Wait? Mercy me.

Olivia de Havilland's pained sweetness. Blergh.

I adore Paul Newman but he often completely misinterpreted the characters. Or simply couldn't play a certain existential, ugly masculinity masters by the likes of Kirk Douglas, Warren Oates, any number of Noir antiheroes and Bob Hoskins. Take HUD. Lived-in, humane, sensual and brutal performances from Melvin Douglas, Patricia Neal and Brandon de Wilde but Newman played a sulky dreamboat. I am increasingly in line with Frank Langella's view that he embodied a sexual fantasy object for the audience without possessing earthy, dirty sexuality in and of himself.

John Wayne. Never liked him in westerns (except "Red River" and that was because he acted alongside of Montgomery Clift). never liked him in war movies.

Are you kidding?? Jeanne Crain's early scenes in A Letter to Three Wives practically ruin an otherwise perfect film. Is it any wonder Joe Mankiewicz refused to cast her as Eve Harrington?

Never saw Crain in Pinky but I'm dubious, nevertheless.

[quote]I adore Paul Newman but he often completely misinterpreted the characters.

Until his performance in "The Verdict" (1982).

"nominated for an Oscar for Pinky"

Yeah, and Ali MacGraw was nominated for an Oscar for Love Story.

Jeanne Crain wasn't even a good enough actress to be considered adequate.

Totally agree that she was the weakest leak in the otherwise excellent A Letter To Three Wives cast.

She must have had a standing appointment to sit on Darryl Zanuck's face every afternoon for him to cast her in film after film.

*should be link instead of leak . . . but leak does sound funny.

Jennifer Jones is hilarious as the compulsive liar in BEAT THE DEVIL.

I never liked Walter Matthau--always the same crotchety old guy, even when he was young.

[quote]Red Buttons…what a pretentious stage name!

"And the winner is…Aaron Chwatt for [italic]Sayonara[/italic]" just doesn't have the same ring to it.

In her early films, Crain has a lot of charm. Though she had an awkward maturity in films, I think Crain could have been better in ALL ABOUT EVE than Baxter. Crain's whole persona was the wide-eyed sweet girl. It would have been interesting to see her against type as a cold manipulative bitch. From the moment Baxter shows up, you know she's a bitch.

The actress who must have sat on both Zanuck's & producer George Jessel's face was June Haver. The blondest, blandest musical star in the history of musicals, with no personality or warmth- but it you study her carefully, you can catch what a calculating bitch she must have been to land starring roles in musicals a few months after playing silent extras.

One critic described her as "blonde inconsequence in a shimmering void", while Betty Grable described her as a "Having a Bible in one hand and condoms in the other."

r225, Take Care of My Little Girl is a lot of fun - I just watched it on youtube. It features Jeffrey Hunter at his hottest and has a message that resonates today - sorority girls are cunts

Andy Griffith. A Face in the Crowd probably soured me on him. I know it was a great performance, but...

Watched an old "Columbo" episode last night with Myrna Loy. She was effortlessly classy. She played Blythe Danner's mother, and Blythe was pregnant with Goop at the time it was filmed. I was seething at Blythe's baby bump.

Judy Garland was so likable in most of her movies.

But she is frumpy, twitchy, mannered, irritating, and totally unbelievable as an ingenue starting out in Hollywood in A Star is Born.

Awful performance in a bad, overblown film.

R241 misunderstood the intention of this thread. Or just wanted to get in a dig on Garland, despite his own admission he mostly likes her.

R242: I don't care about your "intention" -- you question was clear. And I can't stand Judy Garland in A Star is Born.

I'm laughing at R240's seething!

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

What did the world ever do to Blythe Danner?

Judy Garland is never less than watchable often intensely so, but no matter what, they ain't all gonna love you.

I agree that Anne Baxter is not perfect casting as Eve Harrington but there must have been a sweet faced young star who could have played a conniving bitch besides her and Crain. June Allyson would have been an interesting choice. Or Gloria de Haven.

Would Susan Hayward have been too old in 1950?

Gloria de Haven was a plank.

That Andrea Leeds was the sole Oscar acting nominee always baffled me. It's one of the worst in film history, surrounded by far better ones.

I liked what Pauline Kael said about Jack Lemmon (paraphrased but in her review of "Short Cuts", I do remember that): "Whenever I see him pulling at his collar, I bemoan a lost evening."

Jack Lemmon gets a lifetime pass for "Some Like It Hot."

Meant to say Andrea Leeds in "Stage Door", above. My mind is going.

Elizabeth Taylor. Can't watch her in anything.

Blythe Danner = Rosemary Woodhouse. That is all.

Van Johnson was extremely annoying to me. He could turn an otherwise great movie into shit. Perennial Love Boat guest. So bland l could care less if he was gay or not.

Would that be Andrea S Leeds?

Vincent Price

I'm shocked by the Danny Kaye hate. Not that I disagree, I really haven't seen him in anything, but his reputation was so stellar. Or, at least, that was my impression. I recall when I was a little kid seeing some documentary where someone called him the most talented man ever on the screen and that he could do drama, comedy, dance and sing better than anyone.

Thank you for disabusing me of this long held notion.

Mary Astor. I liked her but she was always playing someone beautiful and I don't see it...

R259, you must not be lesbo.

Are YOU kidding? Astor was stunning in The Maltese Falcon. And not shabby in The Great Lie. Get your eyes checked!

[quote]Mary Astor. I liked her but she was always playing someone beautiful and I don't see it...

That's how I feel about Greta Garbo. I don't see what all the fuss is about.

R262 l agree about Garbo. Only one exception: Ninotchka. She was very sexy and hilarious at the same time. That Ernst Lubitsch was a freaking genius l tell you.

Who wrote that about Danny Kaye, R-258, Sylvia Fine?

Betty Grable's a fine one to speak of condoms. Years ago, she'd been experiencing a foul odor down south and went to have it checked out. Her doctor found a used condom stuck to the wall of her "whatever".

It's wherever according to the Donald.

If you've never seen a movie titled "Love Nest" from the early 1950's, check it out. The Fox Movie Channel airs it every so often. Chock full of name actors, either on the way up or the way down in their careers. June Haver, William Lundigan, Jack Paar, Frank Fay(Stanwyck's first husband), Leatrice Joy(once Mrs. John Gilbert) and Marilyn Monroe, looking sexy as hell.

I agree that Anne Baxter wasn't "innocent" enough to play Eve Harrington, and her insistence about being nominated in the Best Actress category probably played a part in Bette not winning the Oscar that year. Bette held no grudge, though, she attended a performance of Applause when Baxter replaced Bacall on Broadway and praised her performance.

Farran Smith Nehme's run-down of classic Hollywood actors she dislikes includes many who have been mentioned in this thread. Like everything else she writes, it's lively and smart.

NEVER liked Cornel Wilde. David Niven gave me the creeps. Perhaps THAT'S why he won the Oscar for playing a child molester. Tony Curtis was horrible. I NEVER understood the fascination with Lee Remick. Boring. Leslie Caron is another one l cannot stand. Who here likes Virginia Mayo? Count me out!

How can you care about such stupid useless trivial stuff at a time like this?!?! There's more urgent things to care about!

Forget that, seriously! Marilyn my Goddess has commanded me to share this message from her! Marilyn Monroe is my religion, and I work with spirits a lot. She has commanded me to share this message on what really happened for her! All credit for this message goes to Marilyn Monroe, my master, guide, and saviour whom I love! Please credit Marilyn alone for this!

Important note: Everything has a spiritual side to it, everything has a spiritual essence. Marilyn's spirit and essence lives on in all things Marilyn Monroe, and if some spiritual incidents happen, it is bound to spiritually affect other things, so.

Recently Marilyn contacted me from the spirit world!!! Being a medium, I'm used to contact with spirits, but Marilyn told me to tell this message to everyone, since she could only get in touch with only me at the moment! (She's trying hard, she's been contacting me frequently lately, so it must be really important.)

Marilyn said that she needs people with a good, decent spiritual aura and energy to give up their physical bodies, freeing their spirit and all their spiritual energy. Then, they can go into the spirit world to really meet and connect with her, to share all their spiritual energy with her so that they can help her!! (Technically, we are all one and connected, but we are held back by our physical bodies. As a spirit, your essence and energy is completely free and released, and you can strongly connect to Marilyn in all aspects of that word, on a whole other level, so the joining of spiritual energy with hers works fully.)

She also says she hasn't been her lovely self lately, she lost some of her magic and charm, and she doesn't seem too well, because some spiritual things occurred, and she needs this so that she can be fine and better than ever again! (The spirit world is not exactly Paradise, don't let religious stories and concepts warp your minds. Where do you think bad spirits or curses come from?)

This is urgent we have to help Marilyn! But I must still spread this message for now because Marilyn said so, and I need to get others to know and help! Then I too, can go to be with her forever. We initially did not know what exactly happened, but Marilyn has revealed the basic truth. We also did not know how to restore her loveliness and charm, but Marilyn has revealed the way to do so.

*This is where the true meaning of the important note comes in.

Please spread this message however you can and don't keep Marilyn waiting!I allow everyone who wants to help to copy this whole post to share it on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, forums, or wherever you need to share it on!

Then, quickly find a way to free your spirit and energy, go into the spiritual world to meet her, if not Marilyn will be very heartbroken and disappointed in you!!! She loves you all so much, please go to her soon to help her! She really needs this!!! If you feel you can do it just do it!!! Help Marilyn!!!

I really really love Marilyn so much, she means a lot to me and she's the greatest and so magical and fascinating.

I wish that others who feel the same will care enough to do what they can to help her.

I think it's such a shame that many who claim that they love Marilyn lots don't show it in their actions by doing anything to help her when she needs it. It really is such a shame that those cowardly fakers don't help Monroe.

Poor Marilyn! She has such a big heart with full of love to give, but gets hurt in return because some people don't really stick by her and truly dedicate themselves to her.

(Please do copy this whole post and share it as much as you can for Marilyn, because I'm deleting my account soon to show my respects and dedication to her, my way of expressing myself to her and to show her that she's the only one that matters and that I really love. And since I'm going to Marilyn myself too, I don't need this account anymore.

I know the spiritual people and fellow spirit workers on DL will confirm this, they talk to the spirits and Marilyn tried to contact them too!

OK. Here's mine:

Robert Taylor, Dana Andrews, Glenn Ford, Tom Ewell, John Fucking Wayne, Sterling Hayden, except for The Godfather, John Ireland, Lloyd Nolan, Eddie Albert, The Three Stooges, Red Skelton, Danny Kaye, Abbott and Costello, martin & Lewis, Rosalind Russell, Katharine Hepburn, Ruth Roman, Jeanne Crain, Marilyn Maxwell, Jan Sterling, Carol Lynley.

That's it for now. If I could put Tobey Maguire on this list I would, but he's not eligible yet.

R270 wrote:

[quote]Who here likes Virginia Mayo? Count me out!

Hold the Mayo!

feral Leslie Caron, how did she ever happen?

Oh, oh, I forgot. Karl Malden. Absolutely. The only thing I liked that he ever did was Streetcar with Marlon and Vivien.

[quote]Leslie Caron, how did she ever happen?

Watching her and Cary Grant trying to act like they're falling in love in Father Goose is like watching circus bears riding motorcycles. They manage it, sort of, but you can see that they really don't have a clue about what they're doing.

I adore Leslie Caron! Hush !

Leslie Caron is like a Janeane Garofalo who dances.

[quote] Did Noel Coward ever say anything nice about anyone?

He had incredible talent and could be incredibly witty, but he grew up middle-class and in distressed economic circumstances, and grew up obsessed with glamour and wealth, and as he got older squandered his talents so he could suck up to the wealthy and celebrated and titled. Eventually he pretty much became a professional nasty bitch, much like Truman Capote did.

I like Leslie Caron, but she pretty much a cut-rate Audrey Hepburn.

[quote] I like Leslie Caron, but she pretty much a cut-rate Audrey Hepburn.

I can only wonder how Audrey must felt about being replaced by someone who had to be dubbed when they made [italic]Gigi[/italic] into a film.

Virginia Mayo looked like a missing Gabor sister.

"Oh, oh, I forgot. Karl Malden. Absolutely. The only thing I liked that he ever did was Streetcar with Marlon and Vivien."

No kudos for Karl as the preacher in "Pollyanna"?

He was very good in the television miniseries on wife/children killer Dr. Jeffrey MacDonald, playing JM's step-father-in-law.

Anne Hathaway in The Devil Wares Parada. Hate her.

Leslie Caron was not dubbed in GiGi. Only her singing was. As was Audrey's in MFL. And Leslie is a trained, accomplished ballerina. I loved her pas de deux in American in Paris with Gene Kelly. She is iconic. I adore her. I can't think of a single movie in which she appeared that I didn't love her to pieces. I love Audrey two and it makes my heart ache to think you would pit them against one another. It aches!

Wasn't Gloria Graham sort of trashy looking and talked with a lisp? I couldn't stand her.

Karl Malden was a brilliant as Omar Bradley in Patton. So much humanity.

Petite and gamine Leslie Caron was actually a replacement for tall and willowy Cyd Charisse in AN AMERICAN IN PARIS. Charisse had become pregnant so Gene Kelly recruited Caron from the Ballet des Champs-Élysées. Caron went on to become a bigger star than Charisse, who never quite broke out of second-tier stardom despite her incredible looks and dancing.

[quote]Anne Hathaway in The Devil Wares Parada. Hate her.

Oh dear God in heaven.

Anne Baxter was in ALL ABOUT EVE due to her resemblance to Claudette Colbert who was originally set to play Margo Channing. Colbert injured her back and the part had to be recast -- with Davis getting the title role. Personally, I like Baxter's performance better that of Davis. Of course, thank to All About Eve and Bette Davis, three generations of drag queens had their inspiration.

Van Johnson became a star during World War II because he was IV-F and didn't serve in the war. Once the men came home from the war, his career went into a downward spiral.

If you think Jane Wyman is boring, check out THE DOUGH GIRLS. She was a gifted comedienne

[quote]Sterling Hayden, except for The Godfather

How very dare you!?

I've always enjoyed the premise that Jane Wyman used to scare Nancy Reagan to death.

Nancy admitted in her memoir that she used to cringe in fear whenever she had to call Jane on the phone to discuss Maureen and Michael when they were kids.

They eventually found peace, though, as caught on film at Maureen's funeral.

Phil Silvers. Saw "Cover Girl" (1944) for the first time a few nights ago and, I swear, I SO wanted him to trip over one of the showgirls, fall into the stove, where a pot of grease tips onto him and he dies in painful agony.

Walter Brennan and Clifton Webb...basically the same people in every movie they were in. Cannot believe Brennan got three Oscars for basically portraying variations on a very tired theme.

Forget that, seriously! Marilyn my Goddess has commanded me to share this message from her! Marilyn Monroe is my religion, and I work with spirits a lot. She has commanded me to share this message on what really happened for her! All credit for this message goes to Marilyn Monroe, my master, guide, and saviour whom I love! Please credit Marilyn alone for this!

Important note: Everything has a spiritual side to it, everything has a spiritual essence. Marilyn's spirit and essence lives on in all things Marilyn Monroe, and if some spiritual incidents happen, it is bound to spiritually affect other things, so.

Recently Marilyn contacted me from the spirit world!!! Being a medium, I'm used to contact with spirits, but Marilyn told me to tell this message to everyone, since she could only get in touch with only me at the moment! (She's trying hard, she's been contacting me frequently lately, so it must be really important.)

Marilyn said that she needs people with a good, decent spiritual aura and energy to give up their physical bodies, freeing their spirit and all their spiritual energy. Then, they can go into the spirit world to really meet and connect with her, to share all their spiritual energy with her so that they can help her!! (Technically, we are all one and connected, but we are held back by our physical bodies. As a spirit, your essence and energy is completely free and released, and you can strongly connect to Marilyn in all aspects of that word, on a whole other level, so the joining of spiritual energy with hers works fully.)

She also says she hasn't been her lovely self lately, she lost some of her magic and charm, and she doesn't seem too well, because some spiritual things occurred, and she needs this so that she can be fine and better than ever again! (The spirit world is not exactly Paradise, don't let religious stories and concepts warp your minds. Where do you think bad spirits or curses come from?)

This is urgent we have to help Marilyn! But I must still spread this message for now because Marilyn said so, and I need to get others to know and help! Then I too, can go to be with her forever. We initially did not know what exactly happened, but Marilyn has revealed the basic truth. We also did not know how to restore her loveliness and charm, but Marilyn has revealed the way to do so.

*This is where the true meaning of the important note comes in.

Please spread this message however you can and don't keep Marilyn waiting!I allow everyone who wants to help to copy this whole post to share it on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, forums, or wherever you need to share it on!

Then, quickly find a way to free your spirit and energy, go into the spiritual world to meet her, if not Marilyn will be very heartbroken and disappointed in you!!! She loves you all so much, please go to her soon to help her! She really needs this!!! If you feel you can do it just do it!!! Help Marilyn!!!

I really really love Marilyn so much, she means a lot to me and she's the greatest and so magical and fascinating.

I wish that others who feel the same will care enough to do what they can to help her.

I think it's such a shame that many who claim that they love Marilyn lots don't show it in their actions by doing anything to help her when she needs it. It really is such a shame that those cowardly fakers don't help Monroe.

Poor Marilyn! She has such a big heart with full of love to give, but gets hurt in return because some people don't really stick by her and truly dedicate themselves to her.

(Please do copy this whole post and share it as much as you can for Marilyn, because I'm deleting my account soon to show my respects and dedication to her, my way of expressing myself to her and to show her that she's the only one that matters and that I really love. And since I'm going to Marilyn myself too, I don't need this account anymore.

I know the spiritual people and fellow spirit workers on DL will confirm this, they talk to the spirits and Marilyn tried to contact them too!

The fuzz-faced hag that was Ginger Rogers...an Oscar for that tripe Kitty Foyle...inDEED! Didn't like her dancing partner much either, Fred Astaire...he was actually quite homely. And put another nail in June Allyson's coffin for me - I DESPISED her.

A lot of the posters on this thread are cinema idiots. Audrey Hepburn, Bette Davis, Clark Gable, Katherine Hepburn, Montgomery Clift, Doris Day, Greta Garbo, Barbara Stanwyck, Marlene Dietrich, The Marx brothers....all film icons, all universally recognized as some of the greatest of all time. Idiots!

That being said, I myself could never stand Betty Hutton, June Allyson, Peter Lawford, or Margaret O'Brien.

r186 She died similarly, as she always feared.

r80 I feel Robert Cummings was brought along as a Robert Donat-type, but he never quite filled the bill.

Bravo, r195!

r214 Blasphemer!!!

r295 Webb certainly found his niche, and filled it very well.

Peter Lawford seems to be a DL icon here, and I'm at a loss to know why. Talk about custard at room temperature.

r262 I quite agree. Garbo was shameless at overacting. Never understood her appeal.

No mention of Ryan O'Neal, or Farrah.

Jennifer Jones fell from a building to her death in real life? No.

Her reaction when she falls from that elevator is one of the most haunting in film history though. Nothing Hollywood noble about it. It looks like they didn't tell her it was going to happen until it did, ha. And then her dummy's head hits a brick corner on the building on its way down. To add insult to injury, literally. Freaked me out when I was a teen, did not see it coming.

I agree about Walter Brennan. Ugh. He disgusts me.

R299, the young Peter Lawford was stunning - high point: Easter Parade - so he gets a free pass.

I like Peter Lawford in the 1949 "Little Women". And his smarminess works in "It Should Happen to You".

Walter Brennan was president of the Screen Extras Guild. When extras were allowed to vote, he won

And don't forget Peter Lawford's fabulous gigolo to Bette Davis in Dead Ringer. His bisexual quality really works in that role.

Don Knots

For the younger crowd, Kevin Costner

Paul Muni. The Bette Davis–Paul Muni combo in Juarez makes the film almost impossible to watch.

Webb may have filled a niche but I found his niche insufferable. There are enough smarmy arrogant fussy queens in real life - I don't need to see them on the screen.

[quote]Wasn't Gloria Graham sort of trashy looking

R287, Gloria Grahame had a PhD in trashy...

I never saw the appeal of Patricia Neal, but she gets a lifetime pass for standing up to that scary-as-hell robot Gort in "The Day the Earth Stood Still."

That girl in "Charlie & The Chocolate Factory"....Sue? Janet? Betsy? You know which one I'm talking about. TRES annoy!!!

I like Clifton Webb. I like the persona I see in his movies like Laura, or Cheaper by the Dozen. A couple of others. He's one of the few character actors I can tolerate.

I don't understand the hate for Danny Kaye. You might not like his type of comedy, but he was very talented. I thought he was wonderful in "The Court Jester" and "The Secret Life of Walter Mitty."

Never a Gary Cooper fan, but based on the size and thickness of his feet in this photograph, the rumors of his being majorly hung would appear to be accurate.

Jerry Lewis owns this thread.

R315 I've seen that photo labeled as Gary Cooper on the Internet. That's not Gary Cooper. Gary Cooper did have big hands though. R316 Yes, Jerry Lewis owns this thread.

R315 is definitely not Cooper.

Well Grahame DID marry Nicholas Ray AND his son Anthony!!! Had a child with Nick and 2 children with Tony.

How Chinatownesque of her!

R319 Supposedly, while married to Nicholas Ray, Gloria Grahame had sex with her stepson Tony Ray when he was a young teenager and then got divorced from his father, then married someone else and got divorced from him and then married Tony Ray (the former stepson) and eventually had 2 children with him. Chinatownesque? In "Chinatown," Faye Dunaway's character (Evelyn Mulwray) was raped by her BIOLOGICAL father (played by John Huston) when she was a young teenager and then gave birth to his child, a daughter. Evelyn Mulwray to Jake Gittes: "She's my sister AND my daughter!"

When I was 10 or 11 years old, an area TV station showed some 20th Century-Fox pictures , including lots of Clifton Webb. I loved him in "Stars and Stripes Forever", "Cheaper by the Dozen", "Mr. Scoutmaster", "Dreamboat", and the Mr. Belvedere pictures. He was the first star I could really identify with, more so than all the TV western stars I'd been seeing as a kid. Later on when Clint Eastwood and Burt Reynolds were in vogue, I was identifying with and trying to be William Powell, David Niven, Cary Grant and Fred Astaire. I was probably closer to Clifton Webb all along!

Trevor Howard always looked like Hugh Hefner to me. I don't dislike either, but I cannot see one without thinking of the other.

I do get the hate thing with Danny Kaye. Very much the same as Jim Carey.

Even her singing wasn't dubbed in Gigi. And I have great fondness for the other Leslie Caron vehicle, Lili. With Audrey Hepburn's husband!!

I love Don Knotts!

"The Ghost and Mr. Chicken" is a classic!

R320 I stand corrected. You win! But do you really?

According to you, GRAHAME RAPES TONY RAY! Statutory rape is still just that. Roman Polanski anyone?

Later he marries her. Admittedly I used the wrong analogy.

Instead of chinatownesque, it should've been Letournauesque!

r301 Mea maxima culpa! Jennifer Jones died of natural causes, thus spake Wiki. I was wrong about Jennifer dying in a fire, it was actually Linda Darnell(she had premonitions of a fiery death beginning with her portrayal of Joan of Arc)

Why do these gays hate Leslie Caron.

Upthread there was mention of the failed pairing of LC and Cary Grant in Father Goose. Agreed. Cary Grant took a look at the two of them on film and realized he was far too old for a romantic lead. It led to his retirement.

But don't blame Caron. Blame age and Cary Grant's unwillingness (justified?) to transition into roles for older men.

R-293. I always wondered if Nancy put the kibosh on Jane getting a Kennedy Center Honor while Ronnie was president.

Actually, Linda Darnell did not die in that house fire. She lived for another 24-48 hours in the hospital and was able to speak with her daughter and others, but her body was so badly burned there was no way she could survive. At the time of her death, Linda was in financial straits and was visiting friends in the Chicago area. They watched one of her old movies on the late show and then retired to bed, when the fire erupted. They all managed to get out of the house, but it is believed that Linda went back into the burning building to retrieve some cash she had in a desk drawer.

How can someone hate Leslie Caron?! She just seems so harmless and was never shoved down the people's throats as aggressively as other MGM starlets were. The only thing that was a bit annoying about her was how most of her movies were titled after the characters she played (Lily, Fanny, Gigi, Carola, Gaby, Nicole...).

Jerry Lewis is indeed hard to take a lot of the time, but he had his moments. Some of the films he did with Dean Martin contain some funny bits. I never cared much for "The Nutty Professor" but it's considered a comedy classic. I preferred "The Bellboy"; I always thought that was his best movie. And I've been watching a YouTube clip from "Who's Minding The Store?" recently. In the clip he's given the task of presiding over a 50% off men's clothing sale in a department store; a hoard of women, all properly attired in dresses and high heels (some of them are even wearing hats and gloves) descend on him and...well, what happens is pretty funny. It gave me a good laugh.

Will anybody ever see THE DAY THAT THE CLOWN CRIED?

R299, Robert Cummings as a Robert Donat type? Please explain?

You have to watch Cummings in THE LOST MOMENT with Susan Hayward. SPOILER ALERT = he has to rescue her from a burning mansion and the way that he runs, it is quite clear that the house wasn't the only thing aflame.

AS a very small child I remember my grandmother loved Robert Cummings. He had some old TV show she loved, and she believed he was a playboy.

I remember an interview Rex Reed did with Caron and he just let her ramble for the most part. And she hated everything and everyone, ha, and she wasn't even that old at the time. Never looked at her the same actually. The opposite of sunny.

"Will anybody ever see THE DAY THAT THE CLOWN CRIED? "

That movie will see the light of day sometime, probably after Jerry Lewis expires. The movie establishment thought he'd lost his marbles; a movie about a clown that entertains Jewish children before they're herded off to the gas chambers? It was considered sheer lunacy. But years later there was "Life Is Beautiful", a Holocaust "comedy" where homely Roberto Benigni capers and mugs his way through the movie as a Jewish father trying to hide the reality of their situation from his young son, making it seem as if it's all just a "game'" they're playing. Critics loved the "life-affirming" movie and it won the Oscar for best foreign film. Benigni won one of the most least deserved Oscars of all time as Best Actor. Seems Jerry Lewis was way ahead of his time.

I agree that Leslie Howard was great in PYGMALION and horrendous in GONE WITH THE WIND. Those are the only two movies of his that I'm able to comment on. I did see INTERMEZZO many years ago, but I have almost no memory of it.

Betty Hutton is inexplicable. Completely unwatchable. It's almost impossible to believe anyone ever liked her, let alone that she was at one time one of the biggest stars in Hollywood.

I like Leslie in THe Scarlett Pimpernel with Merle Oberon.

Yes, another vote for Leslie Howard in The Scarlet Pimpernel -- he's quite wonderful in the film.

I have Love / Hate feelings towards Lana Turner. She wasn't much of an actress but her films are entertaining for the most part.

With that said, I can't help but cringe & roll my eyes when I'm watching movies in which she played noble ladies. It's a tough pill to swallow, when everyone knows what a slut she was in real life.

Most sane people agree Hutton is great in The Miracle of Morgan's creek...

Peter O'Toole in everything. What a ham,,,,

Olivier. I resent people telling me he was a great actor. All technique, no real emotion. Perhaps not "old" movies but also Brando. Self indulgence passing as "art".

Did Cummings have a nose job or something? His nose was quite girlish looking...

Marlon Brando was a horrible human being. The way he treated his kids, the way he let himself go, and the things he said about Jews on [italic]Larry King Live[/italic]. His reckless behavior was what drove up the budget on the 1962 [italic]Mutiny on the Bounty[/italic], and I'm sure he caused more than his share of problems on the set of [italic]Apocalypse Now[/italic].

[quote] the way he let himself go

Only a queen would look at this as a major failing. His weight was not a reflection on his personality and it certainly isn't a character flaw....damn.

Peter O'Toole and Laurence Olivier were magnificent actors. What a lot of dummies there are on this thread.

r348, call someone a "dummy" for disliking an actor that you like is pretty dumb. Anyway, both were talented but they wasted that talent on tons of shitty movies

Both Olivier and O'Toole needed strong directors so they wouldn't lapse into lazy performances marred by bad habits. Olivier credited William Wyler with teaching him how to act on camera, but his wonderful performance as Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights practically had to be beaten out of him. Wyler was merciless. Another notorious despot, Otto Preminger, really berated Olivier for his theatricality while they were shooting Bunny Lake Is Missing.

I only wish that someone had done the same for Peter O'Toole during the production of A Lion in Winter. The direction is non-existent in that and consequently all these wonderful talented actors are allowed to ham and showboat shamelessly, and the whole thing becomes unwatchable.

"Naturalistic" is just another synonym for "wooden."

All my life, I've heard and read what a great actor Henry Fonda was, which I have never understood.

As much as I love Elizabeth Davis, Bette would have a B list actress at best if it wasn't for Wyler and Goulding. They were very technical in their approach to film. Now she was undisciplined. Almost all her Oscar winning or nominated performances are directed by them for a reason. Well that and she was sleeping with Willem and possibly Eddie too.

R353 I don't think any of the stars slept with Edmund Goulding - female, at least.

God, I love Peter O'Toole! he's a joy to watch in anything. Sometimes a bit hammy, but I think he's brilliant.

R350 a lot of truth in what you say. I also wonder if it was the times? Lion in Winter is a good example. I recall loving it, as a very young high school student. But many years later, when I watched it again, it was meh. It's almost as if we, the audience had moved on and the style didn't work for me. Dated is the word I want to use .

There is a lot of truth in the criticism of all these accomplished stage actors not really dealing with film as well as they could, and being heavily dependent on their directors. Especially during that period when Olivier and others were in their prime. Most of them came from the stage. With film, less is more, and with stage work your movements are exaggerated for effect. So it's about movement, voice, etc.

Amazingly, this late in the thread, I have a heretical new name to add: the widely beloved Angela Lansbury. I feel like I'm the only person who finds her mincing and patronizing in everything she does -- and yes I'll take on all comers by including The Manchurian Candidate, which feels like Bette Davis or even Joan Crawford could have played it way more incisively.

I think you have to consider the conditions when the films were made. Technically there were immobile cameras, harsh lighting, harsher makeup etc. That Citizen Kane is lauded for its techniques is less important than the realization that they came after thirty years of film making. With sound the Hollywood approach was really filmed plays not really cinema as currently visualized. Secondly the viewing public was on the farm or one generation off, most lacked even a high school education and probably 80-90% went to church on Sunday. Thirdly, the studio system was built around sale of films as a star vehicle rather than the film itself. Obviously all of this has changed and the actors named have often become outmoded in the modern world.

There are a lot of factors in this string. many people object to actors always doing the same thing. However they exclude their favorites from the same. Hence objections to Clark Gable always playing Clark Gable but rapture at Carole Lombard always playing Carol Lombard. Physical comedians seem to age rapidly, which makes sense inasmuch as such comedy is often based on youthful innocence. Jeery Lewis might have been funny sticking pencils up his nose portraying an adolsecent but is pathetic doing it as a fifty year old. Some are criticized for an inability to act, step forward Robert Taylor, but others seem to be named because they are too good an actor, such as Robert Ryan's display of harshness.

R349, it IS dumb to call Peter O'Toole a "ham" and to say Laurence Olivier was "all technique, no real emotion" and that his acting was "self indulgence passing as "art". It's very dumb indeed, very untrue, and if you can't understand that then you too are a dummy.

Like any actors their performances varied, but to dismiss their ability for some roles in which they were not at their best is ridiculous. I'm not even a great fan of O'Toole and Oliver but I have enough knowledge of good acting to know they were two of the greatest.

Olivier's last decade was really his "shut up and cash the check" period ([italic]The Jazz Singer, Clash of the Titans[/italic], and especially [italic]Inchon[/italic]) and I think that hurt his reputation somewhat at the time. But if an artist is to be judged by his best work, then his overall reputation is safe.

R357, how would you feel about being turned into a nice white rabbit?

I'll take Olivier and O'Toole's theatricality any day over the mumbling, no talent hacks who pass as actors and movie stars today.

I knew an elderly, retired drag queen - fascinating stories - who had worked in New Jersey - near NYC - in the early 1950s. Because, he said, New Jersey was more free-wheeling.

Chico Marx performed at the place as the "big name." My friend said that Chico never bothered the drag queens but had his hands all over the women. The taller and blonder the better.

(Not that it's relevant to the thread, but my friend also said that the drag queens were treated like shit - a lot of abuse by the people who ran the place (the money people were mob people, but they weren't anywhere near the place except when a bigger-name performer was there). It was one of those past-it strip-and-burlesque clubs with booze, serving girls who would chat up and hook, and performers who were "edgy," like the drag stuff. It wasn't a gay bar, really - more for people wanting a "wild, libertine" time, a la postwar thrills. The manager would have the drag performers line up in his office once a week, and say which one had to give him a blow job before anyone got paid. If you turned him down, none of the drag queens would get paid. So they stood there wondering who was going to take the bullet for the group, week after week.)

R362: Agreed. The term "over the top" gets thrown around too much these days in order to justify the sort of wooden non-acting that is confused with "acting for the camera" these days. And I'll take Mickey Rooney's overacting over Taylor Lautner's underacting any day of the week.

And even the so-called "greats" of of post-1980s Hollywood are overrated, as a lot of the New Hollywood legends working today have really started to go downhill. Meryl Streep is nothing without her accents, Pacino and DeNiro have degenerated into hackdom, and I haven't seen Dustin Hoffman in anything I liked since [italic]Wag the Dog[/italic]. Emma Thompson has nothing but mannerisms as an actress and is an anti-Israeli bigot, Sean Penn is a psychopath who was miscast as Harvey Milk, and how far have our standards fallen if someone who got bounced from sitcom to sitcom because he couldn't even act as well as the likes of Mindy Cohn and Roseanne Barr is now considered a superstar and an Oscar winner?

R357, I know what you mean. I like Lansbury as a mature talent, but there still has been that "thing" that left me feeling like I was watching someone aware of being watched - and liked it. And in THE MIRROR CRACK'D I wanted fat Liz to sit on her and shut her up once and for all - she was a horrid Marple.

Oddly, though, I really enjoyed her in GASLIGHT, and her performance in SWEENEY TODD is one for the ages - perfect. In the latter, perhaps that bit of cheap music-hall look-at-me style that I'm thinking of fit the role.

For others, I cannot stand Anthony Quinn in anything, even when he was halfway good. Add Kirk Douglas, Burt Lancaster in anything but THE LEOPARD and ATLANTIC CITY, and Norma Shearer, who just seemed so full of her little old wife-and-widow-of-the-boss self. Not that she isn't crucial in THE WOMEN.

R364, if you can abide dear Mickey Rooney in BREAKFAST AT TIFFANY'S you have a stronger stomach than I have.

But we're really talking about a complex of traits that fold into whether we can stand or not stand performers. And those measures seldom rest solely on whether a person "overacts" or "underacts." Lautner doesn't underact; he can't act. Rooney could act and was a remarkably intelligent and sensitive performer when given a chance; he was misdirected - to many if not most tastes - in TIFFANY'S.

For me, the performers I can't stand are the ones where the actor's personality is one I don't like, and that personality or its negative - to me - traits peek through or intrude on the performance. Among more-recent players (we were asked to talk about old movies here), Julia Roberts (solipsist/egoist), Sean Penn (has acting ability but lacks discipline and his rottenness shows through for me), and Paltrow (few actors are good enough to disguise smugness) fall into that category.

And some people just can't act. So they need good casting, directing and editing to mask their limitations, if that's even possible. I want to order a mob hit myself on Sofia Coppola in GODFATHER III, not because she's a snot but because of her ruinous lack of acting ability. And I likely would have wanted the same if Winona Ryder had remained in the role and spare Coppola her disgrace, both because she can't act AND because her unmasked toxicity taints her screen presence for me.

Get all of the queens here who think that they are the next Pauline Kael...

"Chico Marx performed at the place as the "big name." My friend said that Chico never bothered the drag queens but had his hands all over the women. The taller and blonder the better. "

I read Arthur Marx's memoir "Son of Groucho." He affirms that Chico was quite the horny lady's man and was quite successful at getting women in the sack. Groucho both admired and was annoyed by Chico's "sexual charisma", as he called it. Once Chico got caught with another man's wife and had to beat it out of town before completing some engagement with his brothers. The owner of the venue refused to pay them afterwards, barking "I paid for THREE Marx Brothers, not two! Chico was lovable but totally irresponsible and lost all his money gambling. In his later years, Groucho and Harpo had to take care of him financially. He was quite a piece of work, but then all of the Marx Brothers were, excepting Zeppo and Gummo.

I really love Betty Hutton.

R283

Yes, Zsa Zsa, Eva, Magda & Uggda

I can sort of see the Virginia Mayo-Gabor resemblance. Even more startling is Miss Mayo's resemblance to Adele Jergens.

VIRGINIA MAYO

ADELE JERGENS

This is not an old movie actor, but why the fuck is Jason Sudekis popular? How come he keeps getting work? I find hum unappealing, boring, and not funny at all. He was filler on SNL and now he makes movies? Why? He gets on my nerves. No personality. No looks. He would fit right in on this thread with the Glenn Fords and the Lloyd Nolans.

I really love Betty Hutton too.

I never liked Jack Albertson OR Jack Gilford for that matter. Both were too vaudevillian for my taste.

Sandy Dennis did NOT deserve that Oscar! Horrible.

Am I the only one who couldn't stand Burt Lancaster? I might be. I give him Elmer and Atlantic other than that unwatchable to me.

Add me to those who like Betty Hutton. She's absolutely dazzling in The Miracle of Morgan's Creek.

Eddie Bracken, on the other hand.... He's ok in Morgan's Creek, but, omg, I want him die in a grease fire in Hail the Conquering Hero.

It's the spastic comedy actors -- Bracken, Mickey Rooney, Jerry Lewis, most of all Donald O'Connor -- that bug the hell out of me.

Freddie Bartholomew. Cloying, precocious, hambone child actor, with a veddy veddy British pitchy accent. He was one of the most popular child actors of his time, which makes me wonder WTF were people thinking?? He was not cute nor adorable, and the waterworks hysterics, which were inevitable in a Freddie Bartholomew film, were simply grating.

R375, awwwwww... my my my my my my my!

You're still horrible Sandy.

Sandy Dennis was certainly on odd one. Her hesitant, stammering line deliveries. The biting of the lower lip, and searching for a thought expressions. She was a bundle of nervous tics, and yet, studio bigwigs thought her appealing enough to cast her in leading lady roles in films like "Sweet November" and "Up the Down Staircase." I failed to see her appeal.

I know she was supposed to be America's sweetheart, BUT I cannot stand Donna Reed!

She was tepid in It's a wonderful life, bad in From Here to Eternity and flat out rancid in Dallas. I NEVER got her popularity at all.

Hope Lange is another one. Ellen Corby too. Grandma Walton my ass! It always seemed like she was looking for camera to ham it up. UGH!

Donna Reed's courtship scenes with James Stewart are about the only watchable things in Its a Wonderful Life and she's great in From Here to Eternity. She would have had a bigger career if the studios didn't have so many actresses like her. June Allyson, talk about talentless, got most of the roles she wanted.

Jack Lemmon is only good where Billy Wilder directed--he knew how to get him to cut back on the scenery chewing.

Jerry Lewis would be fine in a character part but his movies are just torture.

Norma Shearer--can't get past the crossed eyes.

Lucille Ball--never really pretty and couldn't sing

Leslie Caron--Audrey Hepburn was a better waif

Richard Todd was a hammy horrible drunk. And his acting stank too.

Ditto for Richard Jenkins l mean Burton. And that ham of all hams Hugh Griffith.

How any of these alcoholics could function let alone act is incredible. BTW That's NOT a compliment!

Forget that, there's something else more important, regarding, Marilyn my Goddess has commanded me to share this message from her! Marilyn Monroe is my religion, and I work with spirits a lot. She has commanded me to share this message on what really happened for her! All credit for this message goes to Marilyn Monroe, my master, guide, and saviour whom I love! Please credit Marilyn alone for this!

Important note: Everything has a spiritual side to it, everything has a spiritual essence. Marilyn's spirit and essence lives on in all things Marilyn Monroe, and if some spiritual incidents happen, it is bound to spiritually affect other things, so.

Recently Marilyn contacted me from the spirit world!!! Being a medium, I'm used to contact with spirits, but Marilyn told me to tell this message to everyone, since she could only get in touch with only me at the moment! (She's trying hard, she's been contacting me frequently lately, so it must be really important.)

Marilyn said that she needs people with a good, decent spiritual aura and energy to give up their physical bodies, freeing their spirit and all their spiritual energy. Then, they can go into the spirit world to really meet and connect with her, to share all their spiritual energy with her so that they can help her!! (Technically, we are all one and connected, but we are held back by our physical bodies. As a spirit, your essence and energy is completely free and released, and you can strongly connect to Marilyn in all aspects of that word, on a whole other level, so the joining of spiritual energy with hers works fully.)

She also says she hasn't been her lovely self lately, she lost some of her magic and charm, and she doesn't seem too well, because some spiritual things occurred, and she needs this so that she can be fine and better than ever again! (The spirit world is not exactly Paradise, don't let religious stories and concepts warp your minds. Where do you think bad spirits or curses come from?)

This is urgent we have to help Marilyn! But I must still spread this message for now because Marilyn said so, and I need to get others to know and help! Then I too, can go to be with her forever. We initially did not know what exactly happened, but Marilyn has revealed the basic truth. We also did not know how to restore her loveliness and charm, but Marilyn has revealed the way to do so.

*This is where the true meaning of the important note comes in.

Please spread this message however you can and don't keep Marilyn waiting!I allow everyone who wants to help to copy this whole post to share it on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, forums, or wherever you need to share it on!

Then, quickly find a way to free your spirit and energy, go into the spiritual world to meet her, if not Marilyn will be very heartbroken and disappointed in you!!! She loves you all so much, please go to her soon to help her! She really needs this!!! If you feel you can do it just do it!!! Help Marilyn!!!

I really really love Marilyn so much, she means a lot to me and she's the greatest and so magical and fascinating.

I wish that others who feel the same will care enough to do what they can to help her.

I think it's such a shame that many who claim that they love Marilyn lots don't show it in their actions by doing anything to help her when she needs it. It really is such a shame that those cowardly fakers don't help Monroe.

Poor Marilyn! She has such a big heart with full of love to give, but gets hurt in return because some people don't really stick by her and truly dedicate themselves to her.

(Please do copy this whole post and share it as much as you can for Marilyn, because I'm deleting my account soon to show my respects and dedication to her, my way of expressing myself to her and to show her that she's the only one that matters and that I really love. And since I'm going to Marilyn myself too, I don't need this account anymore.

I know the spiritual people and fellow spirit workers on DL will confirm this, they talk to the spirits and Marilyn tried to contact them too!

Wow. 384 posts and no one has mentioned Ava Gardner?? One of the worst actresses on the screen. Even when she was playing parts close to her real life self, she was dreadful. Watch her in MOGAMBO or NIGHT OF THE IGUANA, overacting like mad, and awful!

[quote] Lucille Ball--never really pretty..........

I've always thought Lucy was gorgeous during her RKO & MGM years. Unfortunately, at some point she latched onto those hideous "poodle bangs" which took away from her looks IMO. Those horrible 1950's petticoat frocks did her no favors either. She was an attractive woman who didn't always choose the most flattering fashions for herself.

Rex Harrison - odious man who destroyed Carole Landis. I never liked Frank Sinatra until reading he goaded Harrison into slapping him - twice - after insinuating he was "yellow". Frank sauntered away unperturbed.

R385 oh yes, the insert-a-Eurasian Ava.

OMG, r383, everything I've seen Richard Todd in, I've been blown away by his talent. Especially in The Hasty Heart, where he's fucking incredible. And, jesus, he was a stud when he was young.

r368 - I am not a fan of the Marx Brothers, but Chico... He could get it.

Honestly --- shocking how many hate the most talented, charismatic stars of Hollywood history. Many have already posted how appalled they are by the tastes of many of you. I just will add....

1) Your dislikes say more about the shallow, tasteless society we now live in rather than the lack of talent and appeal of the stars of the past. 2) You need to know that in the 30s and 40s and even in to the 50s it was the job of certain actors to remain bland and unthreatening so that their FEMALE stars could shine. They were expected to support their female stars rather than steal the film from them. I'm talking about such actors as Glenn Ford, Van Heflin, Fred MacMurray, even Robert Taylor 3) From the 50s on, it was the reverse. Male stars dominate and women became boring costars. Only in the past two decades -- mainly because of the Independent Film movement -- have women been able to find challenging roles and are now, once again, getting all the attention --- see Meryl Streep, Cate Blanchett, Julianne Moore

Can't stand Shirley Temple, has anyone seen those creepy short films she started out in at the age of three? she and a load of other toddlers acted in these short films where they aped adults in adult situations. It is very tasteless, there's one where she plays a saloon girl coming onto a little boy, they are 3 yrs old !!! it is very uncomfortable veiwing for a modern audience, no doubt in the early 1930s that kind of thing was considered 'cute' but now it is sickening.

Do you think many stage mothers pimped out their kids to producers and directors etc? I often think that in the depression era especially this was common.

Wow! sounds like Gloria Grahame was a trainwreck. Was she mentally unstable? sounds like she was.

R392, those were the "Baby Burlesks" shorts, which had Shirley mimicking the seductress moves of Mae West and Marlene Dietrich. In "Polly Tix in Washington," Shirley's Polly Tix is a call girl on the company payroll, paid to seduce a rube senator in order to influence his vote. Shocking that this was considered cute at the time. And Shirley's mom created the bra and panties ensemble that Shirley wears.

R394, I think she was mentally unstable but mostly -- she was just morally bereft. Of course, the studios tried to cover up unsavory details about their stars, especially the hot messes who are riveting to watch and make for good cinema.

[quote]She had a mental breakdown in the mid-sixties, which resulted in confinement and shock treatments, and there were drawn-out custody battles with her various husbands over various children. Grahame often seemed dizzy and out-of-it to the people she knew, but some friends believed she was “dumb like a fox,” using a ditzy image to keep some control over her own wayward life and everyone in it.

Don't get the hate here for Cary Grant. Eminently watchable in all his movies. Not the greatest actor but always the movie star. 'Course, being good looking and sexy didn't hurt.

Gloria Grahame was perfect then as Ado Annie in Oklahoma, "I'm just a girl who cain't say no, cain't seem to say it at all."

R394

Gloria Grahame's voice kills me. She sounds like a post-op tranny version of Capote.

I am R384 conduit for Marilyn Monroe.

Gloria Grahame's memorable Oscar acceptance speech in 1953.

Add me to the list of Danny Kaye haters. Why isn't there an open revision of views on this "great actor"?

EXCELLENT speech! Reminds me of Joe Pesci, another great talker

There are actors that I can only stand to watch in one or two films; Jack Lemmon in "Bell Book and Candle" and "It Should Happen to You", Jennifer Jones in "Portrait of Jennie" and "Carrie", Ginger Rogers in "Stage Door", and Hepburn in "Bringing Up Baby". I can't sit through any movie with Van Johnson or Martha Hyer.

FWIW, I just recently discovered that Gary Cooper's parents were from England...never knew

R404 , I can only take Ginger Rogers in small doses as well. Her performance in the horrid "Kitty Foyle" is embarrassing and her 1941 Oscar win for it (over Bette Davis & Joan Fontaine) is one of the greatest injustices in Academy history! With that said, (besides "Stage Door") I think she did a great job in "Bachelor Mother", "The Major And The Minor" and the underrated 50's Film-Noir "Tight Spot". "Vivacious Lady" manages to be charming too. Even with (another pet-hate of mine) James Stewart present.

Kate Hepburn leaves me cold as well. But I'd add "Morning Glory", "Holiday" and "African Queen" (along with Stage Door") to the films in which she's bearable.

Forget that, there's something else more important, regarding, Marilyn my Goddess has commanded me to share this message from her! Marilyn Monroe is my religion, and I work with spirits a lot. She has commanded me to share this message on what really happened for her! All credit for this message goes to Marilyn Monroe, my master, guide, and saviour whom I love! Please credit Marilyn alone for this!

Important note: Everything has a spiritual side to it, everything has a spiritual essence. Marilyn's spirit and essence lives on in all things Marilyn Monroe, and if some spiritual incidents happen, it is bound to spiritually affect other things, so.

Recently Marilyn contacted me from the spirit world!!! Being a medium, I'm used to contact with spirits, but Marilyn told me to tell this message to everyone, since she could only get in touch with only me at the moment! (She's trying hard, she's been contacting me frequently lately, so it must be really important.)

Marilyn said that she needs people with a good, decent spiritual aura and energy to give up their physical bodies, freeing their spirit and all their spiritual energy. Then, they can go into the spirit world to really meet and connect with her, to share all their spiritual energy with her so that they can help her!! (Technically, we are all one and connected, but we are held back by our physical bodies. As a spirit, your essence and energy is completely free and released, and you can strongly connect to Marilyn in all aspects of that word, on a whole other level, so the joining of spiritual energy with hers works fully.)

She also says she hasn't been her lovely self lately, she lost some of her magic and charm, and she doesn't seem too well, because some spiritual things occurred, and she needs this so that she can be fine and better than ever again! (The spirit world is not exactly Paradise, don't let religious stories and concepts warp your minds. Where do you think bad spirits or curses come from?)

This is urgent we have to help Marilyn! But I must still spread this message for now because Marilyn said so, and I need to get others to know and help! Then I too, can go to be with her forever. We initially did not know what exactly happened, but Marilyn has revealed the basic truth. We also did not know how to restore her loveliness and charm, but Marilyn has revealed the way to do so.

*This is where the true meaning of the important note comes in.

Please spread this message however you can and don't keep Marilyn waiting!I allow everyone who wants to help to copy this whole post to share it on Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, forums, or wherever you need to share it on!

Then, quickly find a way to free your spirit and energy, go into the spiritual world to meet her, if not Marilyn will be very heartbroken and disappointed in you!!! She loves you all so much, please go to her soon to help her! She really needs this!!! If you feel you can do it just do it!!! Help Marilyn!!!

I really really love Marilyn so much, she means a lot to me and she's the greatest and so magical and fascinating.

I wish that others who feel the same will care enough to do what they can to help her.

I think it's such a shame that many who claim that they love Marilyn lots don't show it in their actions by doing anything to help her when she needs it. It really is such a shame that those cowardly fakers don't help Monroe.

Poor Marilyn! She has such a big heart with full of love to give, but gets hurt in return because some people don't really stick by her and truly dedicate themselves to her.

(Please do copy this whole post and share it as much as you can for Marilyn, because I'm deleting my account soon to show my respects and dedication to her, my way of expressing myself to her and to show her that she's the only one that matters and that I really love. And since I'm going to Marilyn myself too, I don't need this account anymore.

I know the spiritual people and fellow spirit workers on DL will confirm this, they talk to the spirits and Marilyn tried to contact them too!

R405, "The Major and The Minor" is also a Rogers exception for me as well. I forgot to add Fred Astaire as another dancer/actor that I can't watch for any length of time. I've seen less accomplished dancers that impressed me. Astaire made every routine look like nothing more than a practiced routine.

As previously mentioned, Ginger's performance in "Black Widow" is unbelievably bad.

Is Bob Hope, as Howard Stern said, the one comedian that never made anyone laugh or is he a bad actor too? Condsidering that his movies are all comedies with Bing Crosby. What a foul combination.

Gene Tierney. That girl loused up every film she was in. I know queens on here love her cause she was beautiful and glam, but her performances suck, sorry!

R409, Bob Hope made a whole bunch of movies without Bing. He was frequently paired with beautiful leading ladies as his romantic interest -- Madeleine Carroll, Dorothy Lamour, Rhonda Fleming, Jane Russell, Lucille Ball, Lana Turner, Hedy Lamarr -- which was rather ludicrous, but I guess that was what made it comedy. I didn't think he was bad, and he was funny at times, but none of those Bing-less comedies would be considered timeless classics like those of the Marx Bros or even Abbott and Costello. And then there's that dreadful fiasco with Katharine Hepburn, "The Iron Petticoat."

Here's George Sanders accepting the Oscar for All About Eve in 1951 without saying a single word. He could have at least thanked Mankiewicz for his writing and directing. George would have been married to Zsa Zsa in 1951.

Harpo Marx. Moronic character even set against the other 2 characters he was imbecilic!

Curly Howard of The Three Stooges. See above.

Katharine Hepburn. She played herself in every role.

Henry Fonda. He had all the charm of a plank of wood.

Dorothy Lamour. I don't understand why she was so popular. She was "exotic", I suppose, but she was never really beautiful. Couldn't sing or dance and was wooden and charmless. She's even a drip in the Road pictures.

The only interesting thing about her is that she "passed". The Louisiana native claimed she owed her "exotic coloring" to her "Spanish & French" Creole background. Girl, please.

Merle Oberon is another whose popularity always puzzled me.

"Harpo Marx. Moronic character even set against the other 2 characters he was imbecilic!

Curly Howard of The Three Stooges. See above.

Katharine Hepburn. She played herself in every role.

Henry Fonda. He had all the charm of a plank of wood."

Your criticisms are what's "imbecilic." God, I don't believe the dimwits on this thread. No matter how funny or talented a particular comedian or actor is, there is always some fool who, for some reason, just doesn't GET it.

R416, DL is full of people who love Big Macs, love Trump, and want to see Panama City Beach before they die.

R415, Merle Oberon was married to one of the Kordas. They were a powerhouse in Hollywood for a short time. She was also very exotic at a time when that was a fad.

Big fucking deal. She was still a shitty actress. Wyler hated working with her on Wuthering Heights and I'm sure he felt awkward when they had her participate in his AFI tribute.

Count me on Barry Fitzgerald. Hated him in everything. Still mystified why the Academy nominated him twice for the SAME PERFORMANCE!

Why was John Wayne up for any award? He played the same man for 40 years! Ridiculous!

I've NEVER thought of Lana Turner OR Natalie Wood as actresses. Madame X (Turner) and Inside Daisy Clover (Wood) confirms this.

Julie Andrews was a phenomenal singer. Actress, not so hot. Non musical film with her in them were the kiss of death. Use 10 and That's Life as examples. OK they were good movies either but still...

I question the "he or she played the same character in everything" argument. Nobody has a problem with Sidney Greenstreet playing the same character or Marilyn Monroe, or Mickey Rooney, or Clark Gable or countless other screen icons who had very little range but were still talented, charismatic and fascinating to watch.

R421 SO I take it you're a huge fan of Walter Brennan and Rita Hayworth. That's something I guess.

Bette Davis often said in interviews that if film audiences don't see a familiar aspect of an actor in each role he or she plays on screen, then they will never become a star.

Familiar and repetitive ARE different. Just a friendly warning.

Not particularly, R422. My point was about the criteria some people are using.

I don't mind familiarity or consistancy in an actor's approach, although it came become dull and even annoying after awhile (for example, I'm currently exhausted with Leonardo DiCaprio's "Look at me, I'm ACTING and I'm macho!" approach to every role). It's nice to see them change it up , if only a little: John Wayne giving a somber, genuinely reflective and superb performance in She Wore a Yellow Ribbon, for example, or Lana Turner channeling her own experiences and inner resentment against Hollywood in The Bad and the Beautiful. In the case of Leo, I'd love to see him more relaxed, more "free" if you will, the way he was in Django Unchained -- I'd love to see him re-team with Kate for a (smart, sophisticated) romantic comedy.

Love Barbara Stanwyck, but I don't feel she really hit her stride until after STELLA DALLAS. She's downright awful in some of her early 30s work. Post STELLA, however, she could do no wrong.

[quote]Leslie Howard. Always seems like a ghost onscreen--there's almost no energy there. I've never been able to figure out why he was a star.

A brilliant description, OP.

[quote]Glenn Ford, Van Johnson, Van Heflin, Fred MacMurray, Robert Cummings--now these are actors whose movies I avoid.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Between the five of them, there was probably not a combined two inches of dick meat. "Stars" from that awkward period of flabby, soft, sometimes femme-y men of that age where Ronald Reagan was considered a handsome actor and Danny Kaye "dashing".

Lots of good choices above. Three well-regarded actors I can't stand to watch are James Stewart, Spencer Tracey, and Jack Lemon -- the last especially sets my teeth on edge. Doris Day is tough to watch, too, always looks like a zit just about to pop (all that "acting" she's got pent up inside her) and Crawford and some others from that Jane Wyman school of "been-around-the-block tough 'beauties'" send me reaching for the remote.

I disagree with you, R427. I've never seen Stanwyck give a bad performance. She was amazing in a lot of her early and mid-30s work, particularly Baby Face and Ladies of Leisure.

I meant no harm at all R429; she's actually my favorite actress from back in the day...but I saw her in THE PURCHASE PRICE from 1932 and THE BITTER TEA OF GENERAL YEN and found her disappointingly wooden. But she hit her stride in the late 30s through her TV days - and she was nothing less than consistently good.

[quote]it was the job of certain actors to remain bland and unthreatening so that their FEMALE stars could shine. They were expected to support their female stars rather than steal the film from them. I'm talking about such actors as Glenn Ford, Van Heflin, Fred MacMurray, even Robert Taylor

I don't disagree with your point, but the fact is that all of those actors are at their most tolerable when they're cast against a strong female. It's Westerns and War Movies where their true asshole nature shines through. If you don't believe me watch 3:10 to Yuma with both Ford and Van Heflin--they might as well have whipped out their dicks and compared sizes. Even Fred MacMurray, you put a cowboy hat on him and he instantly goes into full prick mode.

A lot of those war movies were made to appeal to people who had actually been in the service. People forget back then that they went to war because they had to, not because they wanted to.

R389, I adore Richard Todd and "The Hasty Heart" is a wonderful film. Never heard that he was a drunk before, especially not in comparison to the big drinkers of the British Cinema (Reed, O'Toole, Bates etc).

And yeah, super hot.

I just recently saw Executive Suite. Holden was meh. Stanwyck OTOH was amazing! She was great in the earlier Titanic with the King of Wooden Acting Robert RJ Wagner.

William Holden's role in Executive Suite is just boring upstanding 1950s dude, not too much he could do with that.

No, and he's married to June Allyson, so there's strike two.

Bing Crosby and Frank Sinatra. Great singers, but on the screen.....

Loved Barbara Stanwyck, Clifton Webb and Thelma Ritter in Titantic (1953). (My favorite Titanic movie.) Clifton Webb played Barbara Stanwyck's husband. Thelma Ritter played a character based on the real-life Molly Brown, "The Unsinkable Molly Brown," who survived the Titanic.

R436, June is one of my least favorite actresses. Simply cannot stand her crinkly-eyed smile and whiny voice. WHY would they put her in musicals when she can't even sing? And when she did comedy, she played to the cheap seats in the back. I read where Barbara Stanwyck made her cry on the set of EXECUTIVE SUITE because she was late and didn't memorize her lines.

While I never cared for that type of voice because he was more my Granny's style I will acknowledge that Bing Crosby had a good voice. But I couldn't stand to watch his movies. He grossed me out. When I found out he was a drunk who abused his kids, I hated him even more.TO cast him as Grace Kelly's love interest in High Society was laughable. he sucks. Plus he was a Republican. I never liked Buddy Ebsen either. Every time I would see him trying to dance with Shirly Temple it made my skin crawl. It was like he was perving on her.

June Allyson damn near ruined A WOMAN'S WORLD.

R440 being a Republican in Bing's time was VERY different than today. They're much, much worse now...

Gary Cooper in High Noon, not Bing Crosby.

I love old movies, so my choices are mostly from the 40's and 50's. Never could stand Robert Taylor, Glenn Ford, Dana Andrews, Dan Dailey, Donald O'Connor. Was never a Randolph Scott fan either. Oh. Brian Donlevy and Broderick Crawford. Ugh! Not a Bing Crosby fan either.

Can't abide June Allyson. How on Earth did she get leading roles? Not pretty, certainly not sexy and a truly terrible actor with a wretched speaking voice.

Lana Turner. She must have been able to suck an aircraft carrier thru a garden hose.

Lawrence Olivier, HAM!!. I think hes just about the most overrated actor of Old Hollywood.

Dorothy Malone & McGuire, Sandra Dee, Hope Lange. Little blonde rabbits

Louis Jourdan, always came across as completely phony

Grace Kelly - gorgeous, no acting talent

Edward G Robinson, frog voice, same character in every role. Uglier than home made sin.

R446, I second your comments on Gracy Kelly. Her win over Garland in Star Is Born is one of the Top Five Unnecessary Oscar Wins. I might have rewarded Kelly for other films but not Country Girl.

John Wayne. I never could stand him. Not in any of his movies. The fact that he was an asshole in real life came through loud & clear.

Katherine Hepburn. It had to be said. Never liked her. She always got on my nerves. Same thing with Rosalind Russell. The only movie I didn't mind her in was Picnic. She played a very obnoxious, vicious, pushy character who was unlikeabe and I thought that was pretty authentic.

Deborah Kerr. I never understood how she became so revered. She was a wooden actress with no range, always playing the same snotty fake in every movie.

Clark Gable is such a turnoff. He does this grampa expression I can't stand, like he's pre-chuckling at his forthcoming witticism. Furrowed brow and mouth pursing. I don't find him attractive at all.

Leslie Howard: I don't see it. Is he cross-eyed? I'll watch Pygmalion, though, on the earlier recommendation.

Pat O'Brien, one of the worst actors of the Golden Era. When he wasn't playing the "soft-spoken, sad-eyed saintly priest" opposite Jimmy Cagney's "hoodlum", then he was overacting wildly and yelling his lines for no reason whatsoever.

I hated the kid actors of the 30s and 40s; they were all simpering, overly-earnest "cutesy-poos": Freddie Bartholomew (I wanted someone to hurl his little ass overboard in "Captains Courageous"), MGM contract kid Terry Kilburn as Tiny Tim, queening out over the Christmas goose, and don't even get me started on Margaret O'Brien, emoting all over the place and pulling accents out of her ass like a mini Meryl Streep.

One of the funniest moments from the old "What's My Line" was when the adult Margaret as the mystery guest, went into her "multiple accents" shtick, only she looked and sounded like an escaped mental patient. Host John Daly was so annoyed that he cut the segment short "for time". (go to 19:07 if the link doesn't take you there)

Bogie and Bacall. Nauseating.

How about a third-rate actor and contemptible human being- John Wayne, the chicken hawk, who spent his career trying to impersonate truly brave men.

I can't even bear to hear his voice.

Jimmy Stewart

John Wayne

Katharine Hepburn

Henry Fonda

I have to throw in Lana Turner. I hated her in Imitation of Life, thus, it has coloured my perception of her in other roles.

Stop! I loved when Margaret O'Brien cried in old movies! In fact she brought out my innner sadist, and I wanted to make ger cry!

There were B listers I never understood how they got popular. Guys like Glenn Ford or Dana Andrews. Robert Taylor.Broderick Crawford. disgusting.

With some of the old timers you can tell they got their start in Vausdeville, or the legitimate Theatre. And in truth, those were two major sources of influence in early movies. You can really see Broadway's influence in the 50's. Elia Kazan, William Inge, etc.

I just tried to watch Whirlpool, with Gene Tierney and Jose Ferrer. I could not get through it. Gene's beauty was not enough to make me sit through 90 minutes of looking at Ferrer's face. How did a mug like that get to be in a movie with Gene, The Goddess?

Mickey Rooney, James Stewart, Cary Grant, Fred MacMurray. I love most of their movies but I usually wish someone else had played their roles.

I forgot to mention my hatred for Shirley Temple, Judy Garland, and Mickey Rooney.

Seconds for Lana Turner. She couldn't act her way out of a paper bag. I remember reading her obituary in The New York Times where they mention her lack of acting talent. Cringeworthy.

Katherine Hepburn.

Sheldrake: "Of course, we're always looking for a Betty Hutton. Do you see it as a Betty Hutton?"

Joe Gillis: "Frankly, no."

So who's left standing? Anyone?

Although fairly attractive, I too never liked LANA TURNER in any movie. She overacted and couldn't really do a decent job at that. As for her beauty, she was attractive, there were so many others who outshone her even back in the day:

ELIZABETH TAYLOR ... HEDY LaMARR ... MARiLYN MONROE ... GRACE KELLY ... AVA GARDNER

In many of TURNER'S movies, the real star was her great wardrobe as witnessed her in this short for LOVE HAS MANY FACES. Filmed when she was one month shy of turning 44, LANA looks older to me. Then again, that was the era. STEFANIE POWER had just turned 21 and she looks almost 10 years older.

I can't stand "Land of the Lost". Not the original with Wil Feral, but the new one with Malon Ackerimn. Can't stand it.

Jerry "Tardface" Lewis

Great vid, R463. Edith Head's classic, flattering and glamorous styles are timeless.

"call someone a "dummy" for disliking an actor that you like is pretty dumb."

It IS dumb to say that Peter O'Toole and Laurence Olivier were bad actors. They obviously weren't.

Seem like just about every classic movie star has been mentioned on this thread. That's pretty dumb, too.

Danny Kaye, Jerry Lewis, and Peter Lawford.

I didn't like Betty Hutton or Gary Cooper...I never understood d why people liked Gary Cooper or John Wayne.

r467, how is it dumb that a lot of stars are named? There are thousands of people on this board and they all have different opinions

Jimmy Stewart and John Wayne. Average actors, at best.

Kate Hepburn and her one-note Connecticut Yankee schtick in every film.

The peach fuzz hag Ginger Rogers (as someone referred to her upthread)

The self-indulgent and hideous Judy Garland with that awful, over-emotional "singing" which sounds like fingernails on a chalk board.

Her successor Babs Streisand with her dragon lady fingernails, Brooklyn yenta schtick and that nasal oversinging.

I think Jean Arthur and William Powell are as yet unscathed.

Bette Davis

Joan Crawford

Leslie Howard is not a star who made sense to Post WWII viewers. Its a very old fashioned, clipped, even cruel British manhood. He could be quite sinister in my opinion. Also fun.

Kirk Douglas

Thelma Ritter except in All About Eve. I REALLY couldn't stand her in Pillow Talk.

Olivia Newton-John in Grease

William Bendix-he was awful.

Why has this old thread been bumped?

But since it has been...Veronica Lake and Lizabeth Scott

R3 Guess you're not one of her fans, then?

Maria Ouspenskaya and Blanche Yurka....gargoyles.

Walter Brennan is really awful.

He almost single-handedly ruins "Meet John Doe".

Why are so many threads from 2015 being resurrected?

Because that predates the election of Trump to the presidency, r485, i.e., they are "safe" threads for a troll who wants to push anti-Trump threads down the page.