The decline and fall of Good Times

You sound PRESSED OP. Queen Janet MADE that show. The show never received higher ratings or more awards than it did when Janet was on it.

Janet got that show it's ONLY Emmy Award win.

Stay PRESSED, Hunty!

The problem was Jimmie Walker was too funny. Esther Rolle and especially John Stamos could not stand anyone taking away their limelight. At least Meredith Baxter-Lesbian and Michael Gross, knew which side their bread was buttered on, and stayed with "Family Ties," when it turned into the "Michael J Fox Show."

r1

Kind of like when Julia Duffy was on "Designing Women," it got the highest ratings, came in #6 for the year" but she was tossed off anyway.

[quote]John Stamos could not stand anyone taking away their limelight.

I guarantee you John Stamos was not concerned about Jimmie Walker being able to take any shine from him.

So few actors know when to shut up and just collect the paycheck. Especially when their ability to act is so limited.

Even before the imitations, Good Times descended into a slew of insult jokes and put-down humor. It was like a second-rate Jewish comedian's version of black life in the projects. "Oh yeah? Well Thelma's such a bad cook, she made a sponge cake and used a real sponge!"

The show was in decline from Season 1. It was way too preachy. Michael always spouting statistics about black people.

And obviously Willona was hooking because a single woman wouldn't be allowed an apartment in the projects and that boutique salary wouldn't be enough.

The two-parter that introduced Penny was some harrowing stuff. The performances were great all around.

And Amos had an obscenely hot muscular body. Tight, tan corduroy never looked so good.

Wilona was married and her husband took the kids and left her. That is why she was in the flat.

[quote]Esther Rolle and especially John Stamos could not stand anyone taking away their limelight.

I think you mean John Amos.

And Esther Rolle had a right to be pissed because it was her show. I'm surprised they didn't try to spin off JJ to his own sitcom. I think it could have worked.

But it was common for a supporting player to break out. Steve Urkel, Flo on Alice, Grady on Sanford & Son and tons more.

[quote]Wilona was married and her husband took the kids and left her. That is why she was in the flat.

But she would have been asked to leave or relocate to a smaller unit. The projects were for people with families, not for single women.

[quote] The show was in decline from Season 1. It was way too preachy. Michael always spouting statistics about black people.

It was a very "preachy" era for television. Most everything tackled social issues. Remember the Waltons and Little House on the Prairie.

[quote] And obviously Willona was hooking because a single woman wouldn't be allowed an apartment in the projects and that boutique salary wouldn't be enough.

Are you the same person who mentions this in every Good Times thread?

OP are you high?

When Florida came back, she acted like her marriage to Carl never existed. Did he die of lung cancer? I doubt she'd ever get a divorce. Nobody ever said anything.

R1 what does PRESSED mean?

[quote] I'm surprised they didn't try to spin off JJ to his own sitcom. I think it could have worked.

A spin-off of a spin-off of a spin-off of a show that was a remake to begin with. Now you're thinking like Fred Silverman.

[quote]It was a very "preachy" era for television. Most everything tackled social issues.

But the other shows were incorporating social issues into the storyline. Maude actually had an abortion, a drag queen actually saved Archie. Good Times would come on and Michael would say, "Mama, did you know that 97% of black people are on welfare?" It was propaganda and made the Michael character boring.

[quote]Grady on Sanford & Son

While Grady was good, he never came close to overshadowing Fred or Lamont.

[quote]While Grady was good, he never came close to overshadowing Fred or Lamont.

I was the one he overshadowed.

Good Times may have been more preachy, but the writing for the first three years was solid.

Then it declined rapidly.

"While Grady was good, he never came close to overshadowing Fred or Lamont."

No, but they did spin Grady off on to his own show. I think Aunt Esther was actually the better character, but Grady got the spin-off.

When Florida returned it was mentioned in a brief throw-a-way line that Carl lost his battle to cancer. It often is cut out. The only other mention of Carl is when Florida mentions a book Carl bought her.

Rolle returned when she was given a huge salary increase plus guaranteed more quality scripts and she demanded JJ's character become more responsible. She was actually only supposed to guest star on the episode where Thelma gets married but when the producers gave her what she wanted, she said, she'd come back full time.

Learn how to spell R5

Does anyone remember on Sanford and Son when Red Foxx got into a contract dispute and was absent for about 10 episodes?

They simply said Fred Sanford was in St. Louis, and Grady was helping Lamont out. Befuddled, sweet Grady suddenly became sarcastic and irascible. Yes, they basically crossed Fred Sanford's name off the scrips and gave his lines to Grady, even though it was totally out of character for him.

Those are weird episodes.

[quote]Wilona was married and her husband took the kids and left her.

Wilona never had kids prior to Penny.

John Amos never would have quit had Fred Silverman not left CBS for ABC, and I don't think McLean Stevenson would have quit [italic]M*A*S*H[/italic] either. And if he hadn't left ABC to help "fix" NBC, he wouldn't have screwed Bud Yorkin over like his successor did.

They were her husband's kids.

Didn't they just announce that they're doing a Good Times Reboot?

[quote]Does anyone remember on Sanford and Son when Red Foxx got into a contract dispute and was absent for about 10 episodes?

Yes, I remember that. It was stupid that a grown man like Lamont would want Grady hanging around.

[quote]Didn't they just announce that they're doing a Good Times Reboot?

Did they? I want Queen Latifah as Willona.

[quote]Queen Latifah as Willona

Too old

R30 Norman Lear announced that he plans to reboot Good Times and One Day at a Time but Good Times would revolve around a Hispanic family.

"The Judy Cohen Story" was Good Times' highest rated episode. Or at least it should have been.

Sorry, I take that back. One Day at a Time would center around a Latino family.

[quote] But the other shows were incorporating social issues into the storyline.

As did Good Times. A 8 year old boy can't have an abortion, obviously. Peer pressure, gang violence, failing schools, busing, and standardized testing biases were some of the issues that they addressed through the Michael Evan's character.

¡Maldítos, Barbara! ¡Maldítos, Julie! ¡Maldítos, Schneider!

[quote] "The Judy Cohen Story" was Good Times' highest rated episode. Or at least it should have been.

Why should it have been?

ABC raids on other networks didn't help any. ABC discovered that in order to be #1 you didn't necessarily have to have good shows, you could simply sabotage other networks.

To this end, they offered the stars of other shows contracts. These contracts were much higher pay and took effect whenever the actor's association with their current show ended.

For instance, both Red Foxx and Demond Williams were given contracts leading to the ill fated "Red Foxx Show" and "Baby I'm Back" (which help launch Tootie). Nancy Walker was given one and left Rhoda for "The Nancy Walker Show" and later "Blansky's Beauties." Jimmy Walker was given one also. And many others as well

So while this didn't directly effect any show really (other than "Sanford and Son"), it gave the actors no real incentive to stick around as each year they were with the declining show they lost money and opportunity. Sanford and Son was more directly effected when Foxx and Williams told them they would not resign unless given a huge raise and NBC told them to stick it and made "Sanford and Son," into "Sanford Arms."

They didn't just "spout off statistics." They got redlined by a bank, J.J. got shot, James died in a car accident when the only paying work he could get was in Mississippi, Florida beat up a gang member, Penny got burned with an iron.

Anyone remember [italic]South Central[/italic]? That was the show that promised to be the hard truth about ghetto life, but it never quite delivered on that promise.

IIRC, Jimmie Walker didn't do another sitcom until [italic]At Ease[/italic] in 1983.

To be fair R40, none of them really had careers after that show was over. Some of them had to even resort to playing State Fairs.

This show was so pretentious it was boring. I remember one where the whiny pseudo intellectual baby brother claimed he bombed his SAT test because people in his neighborhood never heard of tea

Yeah, WTF was up with "The Judy Cohen Story"? The actress herself was named Judy Cohen! Was that supposed to be a backdoor pilot or something? This Judy Cohen was never heard from again. She was sort of a second rate Wendie Jo Sperber, as I recall.

[quote]"The Judy Cohen Story"?

Was that the episode with Adele?

[quote]This Judy Cohen was never heard from again.

Excuse me?

I had a very illustrious career after Good Times.

I played Secretary #65 on Murphy Brown... which is a lot more than I can say for some other people (not looking at Jimmy Walker, Ralph Carter and BernNadette Stanis)!!!

One thing I never understood was why they notified Florida of Carl's passing by a telegram. You would have thought the cops would have tried to call the Evans residence, or have cops from the Cabrini area police precinct come over and personally tell her.

Instead she gets a telegram in the middle of party?!

I was just sad I never got to see them hangin' in a chow line, as the theme song lyrics promised.

Is it wrong I giggled when that bald headed toothless hog gave that Emmy bait performance after reading said telegram?

R46 you mean James, not Carl. Carl died with her when they were in Arizona.

[quote]Carl died with her when they were in Arizona.

He did?

Damn, DAMN, DAMN!!!!

Wilona had one child, but gave it up to her sister Rebbie to raise while she got her boutique business up and running.

R41, so what's your point?

[quote]To be fair [R40], none of them really had careers after that show was over. Some of them had to even resort to playing State Fairs.

What chew talkin' 'bout r41? I went on to Diff'rent Strokes and made a fortune with my repetitive punchline.

[quote]Diff'rent Strokes and made a fortune for my parents to steal from me.

Fixed that for you R53.

Good Times really affected me as a child. I was devastated when James died--he was so much like my own father. I still can't watch Florida's DAMN DAMN DAMN without getting upset. And poor little Penny being abused was damn near traumatic for me--"please momma please, I won't be a bad girl!" And then Penny's mom came back and I was so scared she'd take Penny away from Wilona. Other episoides that stuck out for me were: Debbie Allen as the heroin addict whom JJ almost eloped with (I had no idea what heroin was, but I could tell that rubber tube was BAD NEWS), the neighbor they discover is eating pet food and who makes them a meatloaf they are all afraid to eat, Florida's nephew Cletus being wanted by the FBI for robbery, the supermarket protest after bad meat gives them food poisoning, and JJ's friend who tries to OD on sleeping pills and while JJ tries to keep him awake he talks about how much he misses his father.

Mary! at R55

R55, "whom JJ almost eloped with.."

Please report to detention.

R56 & R57, this is for you:

I always liked The Jeffersons, but never got that much into Good Times. Although I always thought it was funny when Penny's mother threatened her with an iron (which probably wasn't the reaction the show was looking for). "Penny! Penny!"

Between [italic]Good Times[/italic] and [italic]The Rescuers[/italic], abused girls named Penny were all the rage in 1977.

[quote]I always liked The Jeffersons, but never got that much into Good Times

Pretty racist thing. I guess blacks are OK if they are working white jobs and acting white and have money, but the poor blacks are to be hated and feared.

You got me, R61. I was a little 10-year-old racist.

I didn't like One Day At A Time either, so I was a sexist little fucker too.

Sounds about right R62. You were also really stupid because The Jeffersons sucked!

God'll get you for ANYTHING you say about my show.

Yes, and I hated Alice, which is why I had BO, and I didn't much like BJ and the Bear, which explains why I had acne when I was 15.

Things really turned around for me when I started watching The Hogan Family.

George Jefferson acted white? You outed yourself as a moron with that assertion!

Perhaps you are the racist who can't give a successful black man his due on his own terms. Gotta be passing as white if he's wealthy and successful.

What a tard...

[quote]It was propaganda and made the Michael character boring.

I thought it was less propaganda than a way of filling out Michael's character. They always portrayed him as a little Huey Newton, so naturally he'd sound like that. And remember, at an earlier time Black Power was a real thing, and people talked like that--there was actual awareness that we don't live in a race-neutral world. The slight joke that was made of it was of the "from the mouths of babes" variety, handled by Michael.

But the whole Michael and Black Power thing didn't really last did it? Didn't it eventually die off?

I loved the one where the gang was eviscerated by the candy man for snooping around that fat janitor's leather dungeon in the basement

[quote]I thought it was less propaganda than a way of filling out Michael's character.

I thought it made his character boring. Throwing all those statistics around probably made him a pain in the ass to other kids his age.

I'm still having a good time. What are you talking about?

Practically every character had a "cite random statistic off the top of my head" moment. Except JJ who was written as too stupid to read numbers, let alone remember any.

[quote]¡Maldítos, Barbara! ¡Maldítos, Julie! ¡Maldítos, Schneider! —Anita Romano

Abrázame, David, tengo miedo!

[quote]It was like a second-rate Jewish comedian's version of black life in the projects

They always do that -- blacks were the first people on whom they forced circumcision. and then they forced Catskills humors on the shows they used to further exploit the black community.

What about the episode where Vic Tayback fucks the daughter raw and out pops 'lil earl' who was shipped off to save the gang on what's happening?

Ooh Papa Tooney, we got a looney at R74!

If that kid is dumb, then Ben Vereen can't boogie!

If Ben Vereen taught us anything, it's that diabetics are NOT to be trusted. The are all druggies!

I've never seen the episode in OP's link with Ben Powers doing the imitations. He was actually pretty good at it! Too bad it didn't really fit into the show. He was very hot though and helped make up a little for the loss of John Amos and his corduroy encased magnificence.

Just looking out of the window, watching the asphalt grow

Thinking how it all looks hand me down

Good times

Keeping your head above water, making a wave when you can

Temporary lay off

Good times

Easy credit rip off

Good times

Ain't we lucky we got 'em

Good times..

[quote]I've never seen the episode in OP's link with Ben Powers doing the imitations.

So you didn't watch any of the seasons with him on? Because he basically did those imitations in every episode... along with Booger's Louis Armstrong and Penny's Mae West... every episode was a fucking Variety show.

Keith was supposed to be a football player doing imitations of Clark Gable. So bizarre.

Good Times started out good, but the final season's writing is painful.

[quote]Why did they just not move

Why don't you just throw your hat in for president with the rest of the know-nothing Republicans

R79 here. R81, I recall Bookman and Penny doing their imitations but, oddly enough, not Keith. Wasn't watching the last season very often in it's original run and have caught up with it a bit on Antenna. Agree that it was pretty bad. There actually WAS a variety show episode and it was BAD!

[quote]There actually WAS a variety show episode and it was BAD!

A variety show episode? There were SEVERAL. Off the top of my head I can think of the Christmas at the Taxi Cab one.. the one where they're raising rent money for another tenant.. and of course the Talent Show episode.

Most black shows re Jewish shows, and they love to make the cast dance and sing.

When the people on white shows dance and sing, it means the show is dying.

R84 here. Concerning the multiple talent show episodes...

"What's too painful to remember we simply choose to forget."

In my graduate American Studies seminar at Yale on Good Times, the consensus was it lost confidence in it's subaltern mojo and could no longer be amusingly reconstructed by the post-Watts sensibility reigning in the white middle class zeitgeist. Nobody was interested.

I love you R87.

Good Times.

I never really watched it.