Have any of you ever been to high end restaurants, like the ones that have Michelin stars?

I once ate at LeBec Fin in Philadelphia (this was years ago-it's now closed). It was exactly like you think it would be-miniscule portions served under silver lids. The desert cart was nice, but $400 for 3 people in the 1980's is ridiculous for any meal.

Anyone been to Perse in NYC? Everyone says the food is wonderful.

At Noma in Copenhagen you have to cook your own food.

I've only been to a few but fuck yeah. Abe and Louie's in Boston is worth every penny, for instance. The steak, the sides, the drinks.

I cook a lot but as far as going out to eat, I'd much rather eat mostly fast food/takeout/deli/pizza/Chinese and a really nice place every other month or so instead of always at a nice but not NICE place that's hit or miss.

In other words, give me mostly 1 stars with a few 5 stars instead of all 3 stars. I've never had a bad meal, bad service, or bad experience at the 5 stars, at the 1 stars when it happens I'm not that bothered bc it's not much of an investment of time or money, but at pretty nice place a pretty bad meal, bad service, and/or bad experience bothers me.

Michelin only goes up to 3 stars

Per Se is said to have become "tired" and they recently were cited by the health department.

Between 2011 and now, they dropped from the top 10 in the Pellegrino List to 50.

Yelp gives out five stars, r4

I was talking about Michelin stars R7

I have. The food is exceptional but you pay through the nose.

Yes, quite a few and it's all in the details. New utensils for each course, new napkin when you leave the table or refolding the napkin. Extremely attentive service. Amuse bouche. Beautiful plating. Small portions but exquisite flavours. Very expensive though, easy to have a 500-1000 dollar tab (including wine).

Spago back in the day.

embarrassed for r4!

I have been to many but never on my dime.

There are no fat, old or unattractive people staffing many of these places. One place I went to in Berlin last year seemed to be staffed by (female) models. In little black dresses. The other distinguishing feature of these places is how quiet they are. People low talk and the music (if there is any) is played at low volume.

r14 So it was an episode of "It's A Living"?

"Life's not the French Riviera....."

The service. We had a large party and it seems like there was one waiter for every two people. They were so good we didn't even notice them. This was a long time ago before Katrina in New Orleans. I think the restaurant was the Commander's Palace. I think Emeril cooked her before he got famous.

I went to Le Jardin de Olive. Simply fabulous.

I wonder if much of the praise that people have for the food at these kinds of establishments is largely motivated by the fact that they've just spent a small fortune and would much prefer to kid themselves and everyone else that it was money well spent.

I always liked Will Self's remark when talking about the endless obsession with food and cookery in our culture now: "Food is just shit waiting to happen, isn't it?"

I have been to all the best restaurants in the world for professionally-related business (Per Se, Bernardin, French Laundry, Alinea, Noma, Fat Duck, elBulli, Can Roca, Mugaritz....). It is always an incredible experience, it is half gastronomy half spectacle. It is Fun and usually, very, very good food. It has become very expensive lately. I am lucky that I do not like to drink too much (a couple of glasses will do) so the price is always under control. I agree that Per Se is a very boring restaurant but with an incredible view. My favorite in the US is SaisonSF. In Europe, Mugaritz and Celler.

My parents used to enjoy that, so we did. I found that those who had too many stars were overly pretentious affairs. I liked those with "only" one star, much more relaxed, fun, and good food.

old jakes barbaque on 14th st dallas texaz, there are a few michelins and firestorm tires laying around

I've never been to one but I'd like to. There's an interesting documentary from last year called Foodies about foodie bloggers who travel around the world visiting the best restaurants. I totally get why people do it.

The stars aren't just about the food but also consistency. If the restaurant is consistently good--food, service, etc--year after year they get to keep their stars.

Gordon Ramsay lost stars because some things have gone to shit like the food, service and ambiance.

It's the sort of thing people like who like that sort of thing.

I have been a few times. It is like theatre in a sense. The staff conspires to 'put on a show' and make you feel like a million bucks. Not all had the food to back it up.

Best ever...Commander's Palace in New Orleans.

I had the opportunity to eat at DB Modern in NYC in the early 2000s; it's owned by Daniel Boulud. I won an overnight stay in NYC and dinner at the restaurant via a radio contest (Smooth Jazz station CD101.9). They called my name and had 101 minutes to call back and claim my prize.

I don't usually order roast chicken because I make it at home all the time but this was spectacular! It came with string beans and green garlic mashed potatoes. Also had the BEST vodka martini EVER at this restaurant. They knew I had won a contest to eat there but the staff still treated me like any other patron. By this I mean they didn't seat me and my party at a table in back by the kitchen or restrooms. Totally worth the experience.

I've also eaten at Delmonico's and Fraunces Tavern in the Financial District. Both were also very nice but nothing really outstanding. Really good crab cakes at FT, though and their remoulade served with the crab cakes was really, really good.

My partner and I take one overseas pleasure trip per year. I always fall victim to one of those annual '50 Best' lists that are perennially published, so I dutifully set my alarm for the middle of the night, exactly 30 days ahead of time, and go online, or implore our hotel to intercede, trying to secure a reservation at some 'must go' place.

Once in our foreign city, we'd look forward to The Dinner with great anticipation, get all dressed up, and arrive eagerly waiting to be dazzled, yet time and again we'd be dazzled only by the amount of the bill.

Invariably, we're surrounded by Americans, and other foreign travelers, not by locals. These places take themselves So Seriously. RyuGin in Tokyo admonishes diners on their website not to wear cologne so as not to 'compromise the experience' (that should've been a red flag to me to stay away, but, sadly, I ignored it).

Menus and courses are presented with great solemnity. Every dish must be announced, its pedigree fully described. My fellow diners (not I) dutifully take iPhone photos of everyone's plate before a single morsel may be touched. Each bite must be rhapsodised over, each mouthful discussed and debated. Should The Chef appear at any point during the evening, he or she is reverently gushed over, praised, and lauded. More photos must be taken with The Chef.

Two days later nobody can remember what they ate.

After far too many of these pretentious dinners, I have come to realize that I've had far more memorable dinners in local, out-of-the way places than in any 'must go' restaurant. There is a little restaurant in the basement of an office building in Osaka without a single English-language menu that turns out magnificent okonomiyaki, which I ordered by simply pointing at the next table. We had meltingly tender lamb kebob in a local place up a steep and very narrow stairway in Istanbul. And the meal I most remember in Paris was not Le Grand Vefour or Guy Savoy, but some little bistro with a bouillabaisse that made me want to stand up and cheer.

I don't feel intimidated by fancy places, but perhaps my tastes are too pedestrian to fully appreciate haute cuisine. I cannot tell the difference between a $100 bottle of wine and a $1000 bottle. I'd rather eat at a nice, local place than at an extravagant restaurant, and spend the money I saved having some handsome young man knead me like a loaf of bread at a local spa.

Noma in Copenhagen - very overrated. Le Meurice in Paris. Beautiful but again the food is overrated and extremely pricy, about £200 for the signature dish. I also went to this place (can't remember the name) in Nottingham (UK), I wasn't very impressed.

R27, do you watch/have you ever watched "Odd Mom Out" on Bravo? They did an episode where the family and friends went to some pretentious Japanese restaurant. There were 11 courses and everyone at the table had to have it or they couldn't eat. Your fourth paragraph perfectly describes their meal. The description of the course, the presentation and food itself had be laughing out loud.

[quote]There are no fat, old or unattractive people staffing many of these places.

Given the choice everyone would rather be around attractive people. A visually appealing staff actually adds to the ambiance and helps you have a better evening. There is also strict personality requirements at this level, you have to work your way up to waiting at these high-end establishments and you have to know how to walk this level of clientele through a great dinner and a great night.

R18 100% AGREE! I've been to about a handful of those really fancy, expensive restaurants and honestly you can find cheaper places with just as good service and food, sometimes better. And I love that quote. I think of it every time one of my foodie friends are going on about some exotic dish they had.

[quote]Menus and courses are presented with great solemnity. Every dish must be announced, its pedigree fully described.

That's not necessarily so r27. I think I've been to most of the ones in Chicago and a few can be solemn as you say especially if that's the reverent experience you want but most of the ones I've been to were more playful and like nothing better to see you getting in the spirit and enjoying some pretty innovative food.

We almost always order the multi course chef's tasting menus but if you're not into that and just want your big main course then you'll probably get off easier check wise but won't really be getting the experience that rated the places their Michelin stars.

R7 any random Fatass can review on Yelp.

[quote]or is it just over hyped BS

You sound thoughtful and intelligent, OP.

Good news, R34, he posted this 5 1/2 years ago so he's probably dead by now.

FYI, folks, the bump bitch is back at it again. Please check dates before replying.

I've been to a few. I've found the anticipation to be superior to the dining experience in each case. Frankly, I don't like weird food. And they are always tricking you into eating organ meats disguised in twee food arrangements. Always have indigestion afterward.

But! I look forward to going again after Covid. It's a memorable and fun (but very expensive) thing to do with friends. I've never not had a good time. Although, I don't appreciate most of the food, the wine is always very good!

Ha ha, R35. I was just scrolling through and saw my post from 2015 about Daniel Boulud's restaurant in NYC. Glad I saw that because I was going to post it again.

Fat Duck. Was nice.

I've been to Restaurant Gordon Ramsay (which I believe has three Michelin stars) and the food was exquisite. However, the food wasn't much of a step-up over non-Michelin starred Bread Street Kitchen (another Ramsay restaurant) as you might expect.

[quote] FYI, folks, the bump bitch is back at it again.

You make it sound like some lunatic is bumping threads left and right. When you search for a subject you can easily miss the date the thread was posted. I've done that a few times. BTW, nothing wrong with reviving an old thread, either. What's the point of starting a brand new thread when there are earlier posts already? People don't necessarily want to repost their earlier stuff in a new thread and those posts remain forgotten.

[quote]You make it sound like some lunatic is bumping threads left and right.

They are, it's the poster named Defacto, he's been bumping threads from 2015 for years now. Are you new here?

I'm not new, nor have I ever heard of Defacto. What makes you think it's always him? There are thousands of threads here and most certainly more than one person revisits them, even only because they come up in the search.

[quote]I have. The food is exceptional but you pay through the nose.

Sounds painful.

The front page right now is half old threads from 2015, R42. They're not just interesting threads that happen to be old, they're all from 2015 and being bumped on purpose by a guy who has been bumping 2015 threads for years. It's been discussed ad nauseam.

I figure you're probably trolling, too, but for anyone new who comes along and reads this, they should know what's been going on.

More helpful information for the gentleman at R42 who doesn't know what a Google is.

With three of my previous occupations, I have been to many Michelin starred restaurants, many of them multiple times. Many are "worth it" but in fact I am one middle class so I have to adjust my filters to understand why such experiences are worth the sums. I never go to starred restaurants on my own dime.

R33 is the 2015 BUMP troll, by the way.

What are we NOT supposed to pay attention to, elsewhere?

Very odd, disturbing fetish.

[quote] I figure you're probably trolling, too, but for anyone new who comes along and reads this, they should know what's been going on.

Not everyone is trolling. I've been here for over 15 years but I don't religiously go through every thread I see, which is why a thread about a thread bumper has escaped me. Still, not all old threads are bumped by people like him but even if they are who cares? I very much doubt they can hide all threads they hate by doing that.

It's actually fun to see ancient threads come up sometimes.

No matter how hifh the price or how beautiful it looks on the plate,

IT'S

JUST

FOOD.

R49 And your point is?

"miniscule portions served under silver lids. The desert cart was nice, but $400 for 3 people in the 1980's is ridiculous for any meal."

Oh, dear x3!!

This answer is about the food side of it. Agreed the ambience and service are also key factors.

If you watch the TV franchise Masterchef, you learn a lot about the kind of effort that goes into producing fine dining food. First there's a big emphasis on the quality and freshness of the produce. In this category you're paying for expensive inputs.

Then technique: to make chocolate shiny, for example, you have to "temper" it, which is a long and exacting process. To make a sugar-ball you have to blow it like a glass-blower. There can be 11 or 12 different "elements" on the plate in a fine dining dessert, each one requiring separate construction. If you want to cook meat or seafood on a [true] Japanese hibachi, you have to learn to control the temperature by controlling the coals and the placement of your item. In this category you're paying for time, including the time it has taken to acquire the skills.

Beyond the technical, you learn about how chefs combine flavors and textures: at fine dining level, a dish that tasted beautiful but did not have a "crisp" or an "acidic" factor to balance its "creaminess" would not cut it. Some chefs are able to combine flavors and textures in really inspired ways. Some are very theatrical, e.g. Blumenthal's perfect replica of an orange which, when cut into, turns out to be a savoury pate. In this category you're paying for the "genius" factor.

If you watch a show like How to Cook Like Heston, where Heston Blumenthal shows you how he would make everyday food like fries or cheese sauce, you get a further idea. For example, he cooks his fries three times, drying the potatoes out in between each round. This is what gives you the crisp "glass" finish that you can't get any other way, and which you're never going to get anywhere but a hatted restaurant or a potato specialist because it is so time-consuming. His cheese sauce contains no milk (other than what's in the cheese), but rather a lot of wine, concentrated down to a small amount. He turns his steaks every 20 seconds while they cook: think of the staff you'd need to replicate that in a restaurant.

Whether you think the end result is worthwhile or not depends on your level of interest in food, your level of food education and what you personally perceive as delicious. I wouldn't know a world-class football game from the Under 16s at the local park, and wouldn't care, but I know it would be stupid to think they require the same level of skill and effort. I am always struck by the encyclopedic knowledge of different sports that ordinary slobs often seem to have, yet most would disdain the idea that you required the same level of education to appreciate food or art.

The Darfur Orphan's point is also well taken, though - "interest in food" has very different meanings in Darfur and SoHo.

R52 Fascinating. I’m afraid we fatties here don’t have the discipline to truly appreciate this art.

I hate deconstructing food.

I went to Bern's Steakhouse in Tampa Florida. They've won a few awards including the James Beard Foundation Award for Excellence. This was back in the 80's and it is a lot more expensive now. They had a wine list that was a book about 5 or 6 inches thick. The food was superb and the wait staff was attentive but didn't hover.

I went to Bern's Steakhouse in Tampa Florida. They've won a few awards including the James Beard Foundation Award for Excellence. This was back in the 80's and it is a lot more expensive now. They had a wine list that was a book about 5 or 6 inches thick. The food was superb and the wait staff was attentive but didn't hover.

French Laundry is good.