Wimbledon 2015 part II

Federer has played really well except for the first set tiebreak.

Djokovic played EXCELLENTLY to save those break points at 2-2 in the second set.

btw with regards to fitness, some of the ladies aren't afraid of weights. Giorgi and Schiavone both naturally have smaller frames but are in GREAT shape. They are very fit with toned, sculpted physiques. I think being fit can only help any athlete.

C'mon Roger! C'mon!

Djokovic keeps slipping, sliding and falling!

1 set all! Djokovic had 6-4 in that second set tiebreak but Federer fought back.

What is with Djokovic's lobs?!

When Djokovic took his shirt off at the changeover...he's tone but gurl needs to add 5=10 lbs of muscle. He's way too thin.

I cannot believe Federer saved that set. He was looking a lil old in the tie-breaker and then Mirka yanked on that ball harness. Bitch woke up n dialed in.

R7, for visual aesthetics, I think this is Djokovic's ideal weight. Not sure if it's the ideal weight for tennis though.

R9 Djokovic was really starting to look HOT before he went on that gluten-free diet and lost weight. He'll maintain this routine until other guys start passing him. He was hot a few years ago but too thin now for my liking. I'd love to see other guys start to overtake him. He will change his diet then.

Djokovic up a break 2-1 now

I haven't seen someone looked that pissed in a Wimby final since Nathalie Tauziat. (Then there was Henin in that Semi vs Bartoli lol)

I agree with r9. Novak looks fantastic, not too thin at all.

I wish the camera would stop showing bloated Becker. Goodness he let himself go

I think there's a big misconception that adding muscle will necessarily have a negative impact on agility, mobility, and flexibility. Professional athletes (emphasis on the word "professional") should know better. Are you listening Sharapova and Radwanska? Even Chris Evert, in the latter years of her career, knew she had to build more muscle and tone up if she was going to remain competitive, and that's how she was able to beat Martina Navratilova in the '85 French Open final. Sharapova shows no similar commitment to up her game in order to compete against Serena. And that's why I really dislike Sharapova, in addition to her one-dimensional game.

Djokovic up 2 sets to 1 now. 7-6 6-7 6-4

YEAH Djokovic!!!!!

Congrats to Novak Djokovic and Serena Williams, who both won despite the crowd favoring their opponents. Suck it, Wimbledon snots!

It's over. Now what happens to the British people?

I'm concerned.

Nile looked very excited after his win.

what is up with the trophy presentation delay? They're usually faster than this.

Djokovic, boo boo, don't eat the grass

They had to close the roof. They didn't want it to rain on the Duke and have to throw a tarp over him.

And yes, Djokovic, he thinks he's being him, but come on, there's a match still to be played.

lol who cares about that old ugly duke...he won't die if he got rained on.

I'm impressed Federer didn't start crying-we know he wanted this one badly. It's now been what-3 years since his last slam win? Though maybe he teared up when they left court before the presentation.

btw commenting on that article posted about WTA bodies...Sharapova really has fucked up self-body-image if she thinks she should be skinnier. Her legs are shapely but her upper body is already quite thin. The waif look is not healthy nor sexy.

I like how Wozniacki is concerned with physically being her best to get her best results.

I can't stand Djoker but he deserved his win. His power game just doesn't match up well for Federer, however oddly on grass I think Murray (who is not as good a player) has a much better chance as he has the extra step to the ball that Federer doesn't quite get to nowadays, which would allow him to challenge Nole at net and rattle him up. The fact is- Djokovic has the hardest backhand and one of the hardest/best returns in the game. Much like Nadal's lethal left-handed forehand it just doesn't match-up well with Fed's one-handed backhand. As we saw in the French Final Warwinka is the only player with a more powerful backhand, when it's dialed in. Warwinka has the most amazing backhand I've ever seen.. EVER even better than Agassi. Aside from Sampars' serve its the most awe-inspiring weapon I've seen. (Nole, lilke Nadal just happen to have the total package instead of one stand-out weapon) Stanis really should have won against Gasquet as that would have been an amazing semi against Nole.

I always think it's funny how people "can't stand" a certain player. Nadal really does things that make me roll my eyes, but can't stand seems pretty harsh.

I was pulling for Roger today, but I think it's his mind that's got him. He was playing like he was toying with Novak when he broke him in the first set but Novak fought back and he just cracked in the tiebreaker. Set #3 the same thing, just overhitting. But Novak's loss at the French was sad, so good for him.

Oh r18 No need to be concerned. We won't give you a thought. Toodle pip!

[quote]We won't give you a thought.

So you'll treat me like you do your hygiene.

Federer is a phenomenal player, not doubt about it. And he is definitely an all-time great, but I have trouble with people ordaining him the greatest of all time. Okay, he's won the most majors, but the problem is that Nadal has owned him. So how can you be the greatest of all time when you're not even the best of your era? And now Federer and Djokovic are 20-20, with understandably Federer winning more early in Djokovic's career, and Djokovic winning more late in Federer's career. So one could make a good case that Federer isn't even better than Djokovic, let alone Nadal. For my money, if Federer were in his prime playing Djokovic in his prime, I'd give the edge to Djokovic.

R28, you've answered your own question. He has 17 slams, and when you break it down, you see who's more accomplished at all the slams.

Nadal has a huge edge over Roger, even in Grand Slams, but in Grand Slams, take away Nadal's 9 French Open titles and he has only won 1 Australian Open and two each of Wimbledon and the US Open. Unless he has another miracle, his best shot is still to get another French.

Yes, Roger has only won 1 French Open title, but he's won 4 Australian Opens, 7 Wimbledons, and 5 U.S. Opens. He's more well-rounded at the Slams.

Rafa might catch him on the total, but until he does both on numbers and depth per slam, they're even in numbers at their weak slam while Roger has four or more at the other slams. And if Rafa doesn't, well....Djokovic has a long way to go to catch him.

Hot.

lol! Serena is in the draw for Bastad this week! it's a small clay event

"lol", really, R31? It's 2015, you can do better.

She went a couple of years ago after she flopped out of Wimbledon and it turned revitalized her game. It's a small resort town that she loved. She was supposed to play last year but skipped it. She probably got performance money for it.

I can't imagine she wants to lose, though.

Roger may be older, but he's still much, much hotter than Novak.

The "greatest of all time" discussions are ultimately meaningless.

Equipment has changed dramatically, where the rackets and especially the strings let you hit hard and keep the ball in the court.

Fitness has evolved (not to mention PEDs).

Competition has changed, where it's much more global today, and more players competing.

The Slams are weighted much more today. For instance, back when Chris and Martina both won 18 majors, they frequently skipped the Australian because it wasn't as prestigious as it is today. Heck, they used to skip the French to play team tennis! You think Evert couldn't have won a couple more clay court titles in the 70s?

Finally, what is the criteria for GOAT? It basically comes down to your opinion based on how you weigh the different criteria. Federer has the most Slams, but has a crap record against his primary rival. Serena is on the verge of tying Steffi but will have played 7 more Slam events to get even. I mean, it's great that people have an opinion on GOAT, but there's never going to be consensus, so I don't know why it becomes such a critical topic for many people.

So happy for Nole...especially after RG.

R34, it's only ever critical for the stans. The rest of us are quite happy to put the Federers up there with the Lavers and the Tildens and the Samprases without having to choose. Ditto the women. Why would you want to choose who's the best of a great bunch that includes Lenglen, Connoly, Navratilova, Graf and Swilliams, amongst others?

R34, I completely agree, and that's why I question those people who so quickly ordain Federer as the GOAT primarily based on his total number of majors. That statistic about Serena and Steffi is really interesting, but then how many fewer majors would Steffi have if Seles hadn't gotten stabbed? So, as you say, it all comes down to how you weigh the various factors and, in my mind, there really is no definitive GOAT for either men or women.

Great playing by Djokovic. Especially after the loss at the French; I hope he wins the US Open as well.

R30, yes, very hot. And I love how Haas is considered "the old man" on the tour, lol!

I am a big fan of Graff. Having said that, I really do wonder if Seles didn't get stabbed - how much less majors would've Graff won . Wasn't there a period when Seles almost owned Graff? And how much more majors Seles would have won? I believe that Seles is really the original power player which troubled Graff a lot and can compete with her toe-to-toe. She could have been up there with Martina and Chris with the total major.

Right now, Serena is just head and shoulders above the rest.

I think, if you go back to 2005, which started with Safin winning, but since then Federer, Nadal and Djokovic have won all but six slams - 2 won by Murray, 2 by Wawrinka, 1 by Del Potro and 1 by Cilic. Del Potro seems done, Wawrinka is 30, Murray is 28 and Cilic is bringing up the year at 26 but hasn't really done anything since the US Open. Wonder how his defense will go.

If somebody is going to come along to rival the big three or carry on after them, the signs are that they come on the tour, beat the top players and have a slam within 4 years of coming on tour. Djokovic struggled to get his second slam but then he started to pick them up. There's no one on the tour who fits that profile.

Cilic, Nishikori, Raonic, Dimitrov have been on the tours for seven years with little success with only Cilic finally getting one breakthrough. Goffin at #15 is 24 and has only been on tour for a couple of years but has shown no signs of major talent. The only young guys in the top 30 right now are Tomic at #26 (age 22), Kyrgios at #29 (age 20) and Thiem at #30 (age 21). Sock is right behind them at #31 (age 22).

I don't think the next big star has shown up yet.

R41, I used to think Dimitov was gonna be the next big star, and to me he has all the necessary tools (except mental toughness, which is a HUGE requirement), but now I'm beginning to think you're right -- if Dimitrov were going to happen, it would have already happened, and he has yet to reach even a major final (and just one semi to boot). Anybody follow the junior championships? Not that that's always a reliable indicator, but any rising talent there?

R40, Seles was beginning to own Graf (except on grass), which I guess is why Gunther Parche decided to take matters into his own hands. He really did severely change the course of tennis history. I'm a huge Graf fan too, and I'd like to think that Graf is so competitive that she would have figured out a way to eventually turn the tables on Seles, but of course now we'll never know. An interesting thing about Graf is that earlier in her career she did drive her one-handed backhand more, often hitting beautiful topspin passing shots. Maybe Graf would have brought that shot back into her repertoire to deal with Seles' fierce ground strokes. So, in other words, Seles could have driven Graf to become an even better player than she already became, and vice versa. It might have been like Chrissie and Martina continually pushing each other toward even higher levels of excellence. But, again, we'll never know that because of Gunther Parche. May he rot in tennis hell.

R41, by the way, I love how you talk about the big three and not the big four. To me, Murray is definitely in the second tier.

Great win for Nole, and Federer was right: Nole has been the best player for the last 2+ years. Good match.

R44, when it comes to all time, that should be easy for everyone to agree with. There are 13 men who have won 5 or more grand slams in the Open era, 28 when you go before that. Murray has a way to go before he even joins that club, much less the top 5 of all time.

Djokovic made the top 5 of the open era, top 8 of all time. Fed and Nadal (the latter tied with Sampras) are 1 and 2 on both lists. Murray isn't even on the lists.

Poor Andy. Right now only he and Novak have made the SFs or better in all three slams this year. Andy one final and two semis. Novak two slams and one final. The gulf between that is pretty clear.

He'd even have to laugh if he said he was one of the best of all time.

R41 an even BIGGER disappointment than Dimitrov has been Raonic. I picked Djokovic to usurp Federer on hard courts about 10 years ago. And to be honest, one of the Wimbledon's that Nole won Raonic was beating him and then .. can't remember if he tanked or got injured. I expected Raonic to be in a Wimbledon Final by now. I also find Tsonga to be a major tanker. He really should have beaten Nole about 4/5 years ago as he is one of the few with the power and speed to do it but he just doesn't have than extra mental edge on the big points. Frances Tiafoe sounds like an interesting future prospect however we won't get to see his adult level of play for another 1-3 years...

Raonic's backhand is too weak/stiff and his return needs significant improvement. His inside out forehand is one of the best on tour, but it's very predictable. He needs to add more variety to his game, get more weapons to really challenge the top players on a consistent basis.

Are the other two in the top five Borg and Sampras?

The Australian Open used to be played during Christmas and the prize money was pathetic. Why would anyone want to journey there for such a dim slam? The women changed their jewel events to the 'Triple Crown' which included VA SLims Chmps, Wimbledon and US Open. THis was when all the major ladies were playing team tennis. The public had no clue about this. Evert usually won 2 of the events during the peak of her career. She did miss 3 for sure if she was healthy wins at the French from 76-78.

I can't stand Fed, I think he is phony as the day is long and a total priss. His idolization of Rod Laver is a joke. Laver hadn't won a tourney since 1975, and Fed was born in 82 so yeah, I guess Rog read a lot of books and admired his style/demeanor but he was his idol?? Sounds good. As for Fed vs. Nadal and Rafa owning him...not quite. Add up ALL the tourneys they played where Roger came out ahead even if Rafa had lost early. It will he HEAVILY in Fed's favor, as it is for Evert and Navratilova. Chris won TONS of events where Martina bagged it early. That's the only fair way to read these things. Evert's career would look better in contrast to Martina's if she had lost before the finals of the five Wimbys she lost to Mar Mar.

If Seles hadn't been stabbed, It's possible Graf would have won fewer Slams. If Austin and Jaeger hadn't been forced out of the game as teens, It's possible Chris and Martina would have won fewer Slams. If Henin hadn't retired at No. 1 and Clijsters gotten knocked up, it's possible Serena would have won fewer Slams.

Raonic is Roddick 2.0 - all serve and forehand, and not much else.

Seles was taken out at her peak. She was winning Slams right and left. It's ridiculous to assert that she may have never won another.

R48, I always felt Dimitrov had more potential upside than Raonic because Dimitrov's defense is much better. I think all the elite men have to have excellent defense nowadays. But, of course, Dimitrov's mental game is such a weakness that, when all is said and done, Raonic might end up having a far better career than Dimitrov.

The Australian Open was played on grass in early Dec. It's true that players skipped it because of the distance to Australia. But, it was always one of the fout grand slam events.

Melbourne is a great city in the summer, so the players who did not make the trip must be pissed at themselves now.

She looks pretty, but damn those are wide receiver arms. I guess that's what it takes to kick everyone's ass on the court.

r52, I can certainly understand your point that an athlete can only compete against the opponent on the other side of the net, but I still feel that the Seles stabbing is a very special case. Seles didn't retire and her body didn't break down. She was stabbed because the WTA tour didn't have better security. I'm a huge Graf fan but I do look at her 22 majors in a slightly different way than I do Serena's 21 majors (Henin's retirement and Cljister's pregnancy notwithstanding) or Evert's and Navratilova's 18 majors (Austin's and Jaegar's injuries notwithstanding). As someone else mentioned earlier, it's just one of the myriad factors I would consider if I were somehow forced to assess and rank the careers of Graf, Navratilova, Serena, Evert, etc.

Jaeger never really loved competitive tennis, so it's likely she would have left the game early regardless. Austin's career truly was derailed by injury.

R51 Federer has said his idol growing up was Edberg. If you look at Edberg's game you will see Federer modeled his entire game after him.

There are a lot of guys who never reach their potential. Richard Gasquet could have had a much better career than he's had if he improved his fitness and mental fortitude a little bit. Gasquet has given away so many matches in his career. He has the intelligence to be a top 5 player. Raonic I think has hit his peak. If a player can get passed his serve and first two shots than they can usually win the point. He can't maintain a rally at all. Big servers rely so much on their serves overwhelming their opponents that they never develop other parts of their game. Murray hasn't lived up to his potential. Wawrinka has been able to match Murray in number of grand slams even though his game is more predictable and has less variety. Murray although he usually has an angry face on court is a softy, he becomes passive so easily. We're actually seeing a lot of guys after age 25 peaking. Before 2000 guys used to peak between ages 20-25. Dimitrov might win a few slams but it will be later in his career when Federer is gone and Djokovic is in decline.

R29, that's weak logic in your comparison between Nadal and Federer's Slam total. Essentially, the US, Aussie and Wimby are all played on fast surfaces, which helps Roger. The French is played on the slowest surface, which helps Nadal. If it were two slow surfaces and two fast surfaces in the four Slams, I guarantee you Nadal would have more Slams than Roger. Nadal is better on his weaker surfaces than Roger is on his weaker surfaces.

That being said, that isn't reality. So it's a moot point. Just like trying to give different values to the particular Slams a given player has won.

Crushed at Fed's loss.

Lol r18 and 27. Such wit. No, really.

We in dis BITCH.. finna get crunk! Eyebrows awn fleek, DAFUQ.

lol R63

While Serena would have had more of a challenge if Henin and Clijsters never retired, they would have had a harder time winning slams if Serena hadn't gone basically AWOL from post-Wimbledon 2003 to the end of 2008 and then again from post-Wimbledon 2010 to returning mid-2011. Serena had to get knee surgery after winning the 2003 Wimbledon, her sister was killed and she didn't return until Miami 2004. Henin of course went on to win the 2003 USO and 2004 AO over Clijsters both times. Serena came back fit in 2004 but of course she wasn't playing her best given all that time off. She ended the season by reaching the YEC final but suffered an abdominal-strain mid-match so of course she lost. During the off-season, she started to get out of shape and when we saw her again at the AO 2005, she had gained a significant amount of weight. She battled her way to the title but from then on was a mess for the next 3 years. She didn't start getting fit again until 2008 and was her biggest in 2006. Also from 2005 to 2010, Serena was frequently pulling out of events with knee issues. I think the weight she gained had something to do with that. Serena also cut her foot after winning the 2010 Wimbledon and then suffered a blood clot in early 2011. She couldn't play again until Eastbourne and obviously wasn't at her best until 2012.

It's no surprise that Henin dominated post-Wimbledon 2003 to the end of 2007 when Serena was at her worst and that comeback Clijsters won her last 2 slams (USO 2009/2010 and AO 2011) while Serena was out too.

I mean Serena had own Dementieva until her AWOL period. Had Serena been fit and playing well, no way would she have lost to her 5 times lol

Lol at Nadal catching up to Fed in slams. Never going to happen. And he certainly has not "owned" Fed in anything. Note his current placement and Fed's. So tired of these Mary Nadalinos. Your steroided up little Latino is finito.

He still has that irresistible AZZ, tho, R66.

Disappointing final from Federer. He had his form that he showed against Murray early in the first set. When he played a poor service game to get broken back, I knew it was trouble. That is quintessential Federer 2.0 since 2010 (except that 2012 Wimby win, of course). He has opportunities, but he simply can't convert. Converting after breaking Nole would have been playing a solid service game and holding. So many balls went into the top of the tape when Fed had break points. Couple that with Nole playing some of his best tennis that I've seen him play this Wimbledon, and the end result was obvious by the middle of the third set.

My partner, who isn't that into tennis, watched the match with me, and he remarked that Federer seemed to play two good points, two loose points, one good point, three loose points, and so on, whereas Djokovic's level was much more consistent from point to point. I think that sums up the match in many ways.

Ugh, upthread with the GOAT discussion. I like GOTE (Greatest of Their Era) better due to the many changes from generation to generation, like equipment (and attendant changes in technique), nutrition, fitness, etc. Federer, despite his poor head-to-head against Nadal, has an objectively better record than Nadal and Nole in the things that count--Most Slams, weeks at #1, consecutive semis at a major, consecutive quarters at a major, year-end #1, etc. How that ends up when they've all finished their careers remains to be seen.

Graf's Slam total is definitely inflated due to the stabbing of Seles. I agree with a poster upthread and think Graf would have probably turned the rivalry around at some point, then the pendulum would swing again, and both would have pushed each other to great heights. However, it's also not Graf's fault that one of her deranged fans stabbed Seles. As someone pointed out above, there are so many factors you can point out about whey someone achieved a certain record, so Graf's record is what it is and it will never change. And even as someone who preferred Seles, I can admit that when they both played their best, I think Graf had the edge.

So now on to the US Open. Will Nadal turn his season around? Will Djokovic get three Slams in the same year again for the first time since 2011? Will Serena win the calendar year Grand Slam? Will Muguruza back up her Wimbledon results with a good showing at the US Open? Will the young guns on both the ATP and WTA make some noise? Can't wait to see how it all plays out!

R66, Nada is definitely not the same player he once was, and it's questionable whether he'll ever return to elite form, but I think there was a period of time when he did own Federer.

R68, I really enjoyed reading your comments. I think it was Chris Evert who said that, as she aged, the thing that began to desert her first was her mental toughness and consistency, and it seems like this is what's happening with Federer. Serena has also been struggling with consistency, but fortunately for her she can get away with it. BTW, I'm the one who made the earlier comments about Evert and Navratilova pushing each other toward ever-higher levels of excellence. I found it really interesting that you, who preferred Seles, thought Graf had a slight edge. I'm a huge Graf fan and I always thought that Seles, at her best, had a slight edge. Maybe it's because I, being a huge Graf fan, knew her weaknesses better than I did Seles' weaknesses, and maybe the reverse is true for you with respect to Seles and Graf? Anyway, I found your comment really interesting. Thanks for posting!

Thanks, R43/70. I enjoyed reading your comments as well! I always remember Evert talking about aging and how, as a former champion, she couldn't deal any longer with the up and down days. After she thrashed Seles at the 1989 US Open Round of 16, she then went out and played a poor match against Zena Garrison in the quarters and she knew she was done. She couldn't deal with it anymore. But evert wasn't getting to Slam finals anymore at that point. Federer still is, at least at Wimbledon.

So interesting that you think Seles at her best had the edge on Graf! I've never had a Graf fan admit that to me. I think it could come down to surface. Grass, especially back when Seles and Graf were playing, rewarded (and I think still rewards) the better athlete. Graf was a better athlete than Seles. Graf could get jittery, though, when the competition kept it close. Graf was used to blowing by her opponents in straight sets. Seles always kept it close, except for that infamous 1992 Wimbledon final. If only Seles had shut out the grunting controversy and just did what came naturally to her. I think Seles had the edge on clay. Hard courts it's a toss up, but I think at their best Graf had a bit of an edge.

R68/71, You will love this -- you are the first Seles fan who has ever admitted to me that Graf might have had a slight edge! I agree that Graf had better athleticism, which made her a better grass-court player. I think Seles was stronger mentally, which gave her the edge on clay. But here's where I disagree with you -- I think Seles also had an edge on hard courts, especially slower hard courts like at the Aussie Open. On hard courts I felt that Seles could impose her game more on Graf than Graf could impose on Seles. I remember hearing a sports columnist at that time (I forget who) reporting that he had seen Graf practicing a two-handed backhand. Can you imagine that?! When I read that I felt so sorry for Graf because it reeked of desperation. But now, looking back, I admire Graf more because it was just additional evidence that she was determined to solve Seles. There's something about Seles that I always wondered about, and I'm curious to hear what you think. When Seles was in her prime, part of what made her baseline game so fearsome was that she used the short court so effectively. I have never seen any player, man or woman, hit such acute angles. When Seles came back from the stabbing, she couldn't really hit those angles anymore. I've always wondered that, if she hadn't gotten stabbed, would she have continued to hit those angles into her 20s? Those angles are so much easier with a teenage body that can twist and come over the ball and if she lost that ability, Graf might have been able to gain back the advantage. Of course, Seles gaining weight didn't help matters because, not only did it make her a bit slower, it also made it more difficult for her to hit those angles with two-hands off both wings. But of course the weight gain was tied to the stabbing so....

R72, I would say advantage Seles at the Australian, but Advantage Graf at the US Open. The only times Seles and Graf played at the US Open, Graf beat her. I know it was after the stabbing, but remember that the US Open hard courts used to be faster than they are now.

Interesting question about Seles and the angles she used to hit. I remember when she was dominating, her winners would be sharply angled around the service line. She could rip it up the line as well, but those sharp angles hit hard were what threw everyone off when she first emerged and entered her prime when she won 7 of 9 Slams from 91-early 93. I agree that she didn't hit those shots as well when she returned. I think you touched on some of the reasons, like her weight gain affecting mobility. I also felt that Seles was just never mentally the same player when she came back. I thought when she destroyed Hingis in the '98 French semis she was back, but she followed it up with a mentally weak performance in the final losing to Sanchez-Vicario. In addition, she bothered with that foot injury for years after she came back after the stabbing, which again affected her mobility. The recurring foot injury eventually ended her career.

I also think that as the new crop of power players emerged (Davenport, the Williams sisters, a resurgent Capriati, Dementieva, etc.), they pushed Seles farther behind the baseline where it was tougher to hit those sharp angles. She used to move into the court to him them before she got pushed back. Plus with her hampered mobility mixed with faster shots coming at her, it made those angles impossible to hit on a consistent basis.

The game changed to power off both sides mainly because of her. Now almost everyone hits big off both sides. Before that, players had one much stronger side. I think in the end, the game of Seles had a larger impact on the current tour than did Graf's.

R73, That's an excellent point about the then-new crop of power hitters pushing Seles more beyond the baseline so she couldn't really hit those acute angles, and maybe that's why you don't really see that weapon in people's arsenal anymore. Serena can hit some severe angles with her forehand but she only occasionally uses that shot. One of the great quotes about Seles during her prime was that she made the court deeper and wider. I forget what player said that, but it was so true at the time. Unfortunately, when Seles came back from the stabbing, she couldn't make the court wider anymore although she could still make it deeper.

I remember the '98 French Open well. That was right after the death of Seles' father so her loss against Sanchez-Vicario was certainly understandable. Still, I loved how she really took it to Hingis in the semis.

R74, I wasn't usually a fan of Graf, but I HATED Hingis. With Graf out injured and Seles a shadow of her former self, Hingis emerged before the power hitters/Big Babe tennis players came into their own. I think had Graf stayed healthy and Seles had never been stabbed, Hingis would have had maybe a couple Slams at best. One of my favorite matches to watch is Graf's comeback victory over Hingis at the 1999 French. Added bonus is the crowd booing Hingis.

R75, do you still hate her? She won ladies and mixed dubs this year.

R76, yes, I still hate Hingis. I don't care if she wins doubles events. I've never been much into doubles at all. I actually hate playing doubles. Much prefer to play singles and I only follow singles. But I did see Hingis/Mirza won the women's doubles and that Hingis won mixed as well at this year's Wimbledon. I hate Hingis, but she always did have great hands. I'm not surprised she's excelling in doubles. One of the commentators on ESPN (I forget who) said that they thought Hingis would be ranked 7th or 8th if she still played singles. I find that a bit of a stretch since her first comeback in the mid-2000s didn't go so well and all the women hit the ball hard nowadays. I think that's quite a generous assessment from the commentators. I think at best Hingis would be a Top 20 player if she played singles today.

Djokovic's ego is out of control. He just thinks he can do anything. Bitch CANNOT dance lol he and Serena danced together to a Bee Gees song at the Champions' Ball...Djokovic has some of the worst white no-rhythm ever. Serena is not an amazing dancer but she also has to be careful about her knee since she was wearing heels.

Nole has no ass.

Amazing... This is the W2015 thread, and, while most all posts on the men's game are about the Nole–Fed final, or the semis or even Nadal, the most interesting discussion (which I find fascinating—keep it up guys!) on the women's game is about Graf and Seles and Hingis. Do the majority of tennis fans even care about what's happening in the women's game today?

R80? I won two dubs titles this year, bitch.

R75, the '99 French Open women's final is one of my all-time favorite matches! I, too, disliked Hingis for a variety of reasons, and watching her meltdown was such terrific schadenfreude -- her crossing the net to try to point out a ball mark on Graf's side, her serving underhanded, her slapping away the WTA women's hand who was trying to calm her before the awards ceremony, etc. All this after Graf had been struggling in her comeback and Hingis had implied Graf was washed up. I loved it all! To me, Hingis was never the same after that match. By the way, Iva Majoli will ALWAYS have a special place in my heart for preventing Hingis' calendar year grand slam.

R77, I totally agree, and I think even top 20 is generous. Before Hingis retired the first time, even Hantuchova was blowing her off the court. I saw Hingis play doubles at Indian Wells earlier this year and her hands and court sense were still top notch. But, wow, her serve! Of course this was doubles so serve placement was much more important than power, but still. No way she could be in the top 10 with that serve.

I am bored by all the talk about women tennis players from 20-30 years ago. I saw them play at the time. But, I do not control this message board.

[quote]Djokovic's ego is out of control. He just thinks he can do anything.

Because he danced at the Wimbledon Ball? I'd love to know why you think Djokovic's "ego is out of control". If anything, I would say he's very respectful of his opponents, and probably the most gracious runner-up in the sport today. After losing the French to Wawrinka - a loss that must have crushed him - he was a gentleman at the net. And he was moved to tears not by the loss, but by the reception of the crowd.

R82, LOVED that Majoli spoiled Hingis's party in 1997. And thank God! Who would want Hingis as a calendar year Slam winner? Alas, Majoli couldn't handle the "pressure" of winning and never really did anything on tour again. And that 1999 Graf-Hingis French Open final will always be a classic for me. Loved that the French crowd was so brutal to Chucky. I agree she was never the same player again. Remember she lost in the 1st Round of Wimbledon right after that to Dokic? Then a very young Serena won her first Slam at the 1999 US Open against Hingis beating her in straight sets.

R83, you're right that a Top 20 placement for modern day Hingis is VERY generous. It's funny because I was thinking about Hantuchova destroying Hingis in either Indian Wellls or Miami way back in the day. Hantuchova can't even beat the Top 20 on a consistent basis today. Hingis lost to a bunch of no-names when she tried her "comeback." I think she's tactically clever enough to be in the Top 40, maybe Top 30, but inside the Top 20? Too tough. Well, we used to say if you can't make it in singles, try doubles. ;-) Really, though, those two games are so different it's a poor comparison.

Please r85- he's an abrasive ego-maniac which is why he is not very well liked on the tour although not hated... He is simply smart and knows how to say the right things. Strangely I dislike him as a tennis player but I think I'd get along with him better than Fed in person. I sorely miss Mary Carillo and Jim Courier Ambiguously Heterosexual Tennis Hour... I didn't like Carillo so much when she was commentating with McEnroe, but with Courier, she seemed much more relaxed. I think Courier would be a sweerheart in bed too with his cute-fugly face and his longer metro haircut an huge ol legs... mmm

LOL at the Schadenfreude over Hingis' meltdown at the French.

R87, I'm a big fan of Djokovic's, but I can understand why so many people dislike him. I, too, disliked him when he first came onto the tour and was doing those impressions of other players. But I've grown to respect Djokovic over the years because he has somehow made his mark, winning nine majors, in what could arguably be called the most competitive era of men's tennis. I mean, Djokovic has had to compete for majors against both Federer and Nadal, who would both be on anyone's short list of all-time greats. And I recently saw Djokovic play at Indian Wells in person and was amazed at how fast he really is. Of course he looks so quick and agile on TV, but to actually see him in person was mind-boggling. His reaction time and food speed were superhuman. As for his ego, I wouldn't know much about that but I've always heard that he was generally well liked by most of the guys on the tour, which is unusual for a top player. Usually the top players (Federer, Serena, and Sharapova come to mind) are somewhat aloof and they distance themselves from the other players, and maybe that's by necessity to maintain their competitive edge. Djokovic, though, is more approachable and "user friendly." But that's only what I've heard; I don't have any first-hand knowledge of that.

R86, I had forgotten about that Wimbledon loss against Dokic! Wasn't that the first major tournament that Melanie wasn't there? Not sure if Hingis told her to stay home, or whether Melanie needed a break after the French Open disaster. Or maybe both? By the way, I was actually at the '99 U.S. Open women's final and saw Serena overpower Hingis. It was clear to me then -- and it must have been abundantly clear to Hingis -- that her fate was no longer completely in her own hands. If she was ever going to win another major, which she didn't, she would need help: an easy draw, an upset or two, or a power player like Serena, Capriati, Davenport, et al. having an off day or getting injured. Interestingly, all of Hingis' major finals were won against players who weren't particularly known for their mental toughness : Mary Pierce, Conchita Martinez, Jana Novotna, Amelie Mauresmo, and a very young Venus Williams. Whenever Hingis was in a major final against a player with mental toughness (Serena, Capriati, Graf), she just couldn't close the deal.

[quote]By the way, Iva Majoli will ALWAYS have a special place in my heart for preventing Hingis' calendar year grand slam.

Yes, I agree. Tennis owes Majoli a huge thanks. For Hingis to be on that short list would be a travesty. She was a special, unique player, but in hindsight, how many slams does she have with a healthy Graf and Seles on tour?

By the same token, even though I don't hate her, I can never have positive feelings about Aranxta Sanchez Vicario. She prevented Graf's consecutive Grand Slams. It's so crazy to think she came that close to all the majors over two years.

[88] Have to disagree with you. Djockovich was very popular with the crowds when he was doing the impressions. I was at the Open one year and they went wild for them. The players maybe not so much which is probably why he stopped doing them. Also have to disagree with you about Federer and Serena being aloof from other players. Serena may have been in her earlier days but not now and Federer has always been popular among his fellow players. Sharapova though I believe is in a league of her own I would be surprised if she had one friend on tour.

R91, I know that the Djokovic impressions were popular with the crowd, but I was just responding to R87, who called Djokovic an abrasive ego-maniac. I don't think he is, but I can see how others might think so because of his impressions and the fact that he doesn't shy away from the spotlight. For me, I much prefer when Djokovic lets his tennis do the talking, but that's just my personal opinion.

Where did you hear that Federer is popular among the fellow players? I've always heard that most of the guys find him a bit prickly and prissy and don't like him, although they'd never say so in public. But this is just scuttlebutt from different tennis blogs. I don't have any first-hand knowledge of that.

People like Fed because 1) he's Swiss, and people associate his nationality with classiness/prestige/political neutrality 2) he's won more than any other player and people like to follow dominant players 3) he knows the right thing to say to the press, tends to stay non-controversial- he's sorta like a politician and I do think he would make a good one. I'm not sure what other players truly think of him but I don't think he has many friends on the tour, neither do Nole or Rafa. One thing I noticed on Sunday as the cameras followed Nole at the All England Club after his trophy presentation: Nole was hugging Jelena (sweet moment), and Fed walked past behind him. He looked positively pissed. He walked around Joker, didn't say anything to him...I can understand him being upset at that particular moment, but I got the sense his public graciousness in defeat is probably just an act.

You guys are making me think of that controversy Nole had with Roddick years ago but I can't remember what it was about. Did it have something to do with the impersonations?

R93, I saw that moment too and I thought it revealed the true Federer. After he held two match points but lost to Djokovic in the 2011 U.S. Open semis, he had some sour things to say about Djokovic's victory, which I think similarly revealed how poor a loser he is. I agree with an earlier comment that Djokovic was a very gracious lower to Warwinka at the French, even though you know that loss had to really sting. R94, I think the Djokovic/Roddick controversy had to do with Roddick calling out Djokovic for claiming to be ill or injured so much. According to Roddick, he and Djokovic almost came to blows in the locker room after that match.

Ooops, "gracious loser" and not "gracious lower"

Oh yeah that was when Nole was being accused of gamesmanship and faking injuries. Wow! I didn't know that it got that serious between Nole and Roddick. Although they both seem like they have a temper.

Roddick describes the near fight in this clip...

Thanks for that link. I can picture Roddick reacting that way. I wish it was captured on camera or something. I remember feeling secondhand embarrassment for Nole when basically the whole stadium started booing him. I also remember that he started trying to repair his image after that incident. It seems so long ago.

R99, I thought the crowd treated Djokovic unfairly because it was mainly Roddick who started the whole thing (and he admits so) by trash talking Djokovic before the match. But it was a NYC crowd and perhaps Djokovic should have taken the high road and resisted taking a shot back at Roddick.

[quote]Please [R85]- he's an abrasive ego-maniac which is why he is not very well liked on the tour although not hated...

You've still not shared examples of him being an ego-maniac. I don't see any evidence of it. I'm not saying he isn't, but without any evidence, you're not convincing me otherwise.

Federer doesn't like him. That dates back to Djokovic's parents disrespecting Federer. But then Federer used to dismiss Murray, and more recently has had words with Wawrinka. For the most part, the ATP keeps things behind closed doors, but when you get a peek behind them, I don't see Federer as universally loved.

Roddick (as noted throughout this thread) had issues with Djokovic, although those are apparently in the past. If we were to list the players (and umpires) that Roddick had issues with, we'd have to start a new thread.

Other than that, I'm not aware of other players that dislike Djokovic.

Well, you have to expect that kind of reaction these days r100. Players can't even have a word with the chair without getting jeered. Did the crowds boo the players so quickly and so often in the past? I remember that a lot of fans disliked Nole because of his on court antics but also because of his mom and dad's behavior. I remember they almost got into a fist fight with members of the crowd at the AO one year. A lot of fans also disliked Sharapova because of her father and it got to the point that he stopped showing up to watch her play.

And I also think that if Nole wanted to comment on what Roddick said he should have done it in the post match press conference and not in front of the crowd.

R103, Excellent point. Or Djokovic could have just taken the high road and not said anything because, after all, he had just beaten Roddick. As I mentioned earlier, I'm a big fan of Djokovic but at times I really prefer he let his racket do all the talking.

R102, when watching the recent French and Wimbledon, I had the same reaction about the crowds. So many times the players have legitimate beefs, but yet the crowds are so quick to jump on them. I don't recall that happening so much in the past. Of course, crowds in general have become all the more boorish. Didn't some jerk try to charge his cell phone on a Broadway stage during a performance recently? I fear that crowds are only get more rude, so I'm hoping that players will just get better at tuning them out.

I wonder if the fact that Serena is perceived to be on PEDs by the general, non-tennis-loving public has something to do with the fact that she has fewer and less lucrative sponsorship deals than player who are at best only half as successful as she is?

This didn't dawn on me until my parents (who have never watched any more than 5 minutes of any tennis match on telly) casually remarked, as if it were common knowledge, that Serena is on PEDs. And then there were Frum's tweets (story below).

Sadly, Frum is saying what many of us suspect. And it's not just Serena. And it's not just the women's game.

Stosur, Schiavone, Nadal, even Nole -- the "gluten free" explanation doesn't ring entirely true to me.

Most people are completely clueless about physiology ( or anything at all to do with science). Serena is an African American of West African descent. West Africans and most Africans in general have greater muscle density. She's not a small, petite woman and she never would have been whether she played tennis or not. People accused Navratilova of the same baseless nonsense in an attempt to discredit her because of her sexuality.

I don't disagree with anything you wrote R108, but I'd also note the differences between Venus' and Serena's body types. While Venus is a few inches taller than her sister, she's not as heavy because Serena is broader and thicker (and honestly has a greater likelihood of being overweight).

I'm not suggesting that Serena is on PEDs (And I dearly hope the sport is largely free of PEDs, while I know it's not entirely likely.) But when you compare their body types, I can understand why people continue to whisper.

Do school us on physiology, r108. Please. Is it a PhD you've got in physiology, or are you just pulling it all out of your arse? I say that with the utmost disdain—just to fit in with your jibe that the rest of us are "clueless." No, really, is your degree from Yale or Stanford?

Bernard Tomic drama continues. He got in trouble with cops last night in Miami. Between him and the constant stuntqueening of Nick Kyrgios, Oz has some..uh...interesting contenders these days.

But I loved Tomic's sheer shorts and blue jockey shorts at Wimby, R111. He has nice cakes.

We've been down this road many times with Serena. Look at her mother and most of her sisters. Their bone structure, weight distribution are the same. The difference is Serena moves and works out, so she's the muscular version of it.

Go to any gym in Brooklyn and look at some of the women who teach spin. Muscular black women, big butts, same body type. It has nothing to do with PEDs.

R110,

The fact that you think this is some secret knowledge that only a person with a doctorate from Yale would be aware of and also believe that I just pulled it out of my 'arise' proves me correct. The high muscle density of people of African descent is not some closely guarded secret dear. If you knew how to do basic research you'd know that. In case you didn't know indigenous Africans also have dark skin, water is wet and the sky is blue. I can't be bothered with you when you don't even know what you are talking about.

I want Nole's babies.

How many times can it be said that Serena wouldn't be able to retain her big boobs and butt if she were to take steroids? It's laughable and petty that people who don't understand science are still trying to dismiss her legacy as 1 of the very best female tennis players ever.

Roddick was always a sore loser and started the fight with Djokovic by saying he's always sick or injured. It is true that early in his career, Djokovic did retire a lot and had many excuses for losses. Still, it wasn't a good look that Roddick tried to bully Djokovic in the locker room after losing to him. I don't like either player but Roddick has always been that jerk who was given favorable treatment by the press for whatever reason. He had issues with other players too and of course was a cunt towards many umpires and linespeople.

Yes r113, and Venus' body type is more like her father's while Serena's is clearly more like her mother's. No tennis player is going to purposely carry around more weight than is necessary unless they simply can't help it. Tsonga and Nadal will never be as slim as Djokovic and Serena will never be as slim as Radwanska. They have body types that build bulk and muscle very easily and they have the injuries particularly knee injuries to show for it.

Oh, do shut up, r114.

I think of Serena as the modern Navratilova. Neither are/were what fans and tennis media see or want as representatives of the women's game. Navratilova because she was a lesbian and Serena because she's African American. They don't fit the ideal tennis sweetheart image the way that Chrissy Evert, Sharapova, and Bouchard do. Navratilova was accused of using steroids, called a man, called ugly...just like Serena is today. This is/was all an effort to dismiss their achievements for not being white, blonde, and straight. Could you imagine that when Federer was dominating and racking up slams that a player who he has owned, a player that has achieved much less than him would have more endorsements? No because this would not happen in the men's game. There's also an undercurrent of sexism involved in this.

Tomic arrested again. After giving the finger to security guards, says it was his fault. No kidding! He and Kyrgios are such assholes.

If the Aussie old guard (Laver, Rosewall, etc.) had issues with Hewitt, whatever must they think of Tomic and Kyrgios? And Tomic must be an even bigger jerk than we think he is for Patrick Rafter to call him out. A friend of mine has worked with Rafter and says he is the nicest, most down-to-earth guy. And, oh yeah, he's very easy on the eyes too.

Rafter should bend Tomic over a pool table and give him a hard fuck.

R119 More than enough to believe that Sharapova is neither straight nor bi, though, other tennis stars are suspicious as well. And I think that most professional athletes have done PED growing up and as adults, also PED-testing is just for the current time, doping done in youth and childhood and even just a year or so ago isn't shown in these tests.

R119, you raised a really interesting question about whether the Serena/Sharapova endorsement imbalance would ever occur in the men's game. I think a counter example might be Sampras/Agassi. I don't have any hard figures, but my impression was that Agassi made more money on endorsements than Sampras. I could be wrong though. It's just my impression and memory of that era.

I would like to see the figures from when they were both active players to see if a comparable discrepancy existed. Even if such a discrepancy existed it isn't comparable to Serena and Sharapova. Pete and Agassi were actual rivals. They played 34 times with Andre winning 14 times and Pete winning 20. Andre has 8 slams to Pete's 14 and they had very close battles in majors and major finals. Therefore, if the extrovert Andre had more endorsements than the introvert Pete it wasn't based on physical appearance or skin color. Serena and Sharapova have played 20 times with Serena winning 18 and Sharapova winning 2. Serena has 21 majors to Sharapova's 5. Sharapova hasn't beaten Serena in over a decade. Sharapova is Serena's pigeon not her rival. Serena has earned twice the amount of career prize money than Sharapova has because she's actually achieved more. Serena's dominance is not what undermines women's tennis, sexism and racial bigotry are what undermines women's tennis.

No matter what a woman achieves, no matter her accomplishments the most important thing about her is her appearance. Even Caitlyn Jenner recently said that she didn't completely comprehend the enormous pressure women are under to be attractive. People were bashing Radwanska, Sharapova ... for being concerned about their appearance when it's really society's fault. I remember reading an article years ago in which Serena herself talked about insecurities about her physical appearance ( particularly her arms) and body image issues and how she had to eventually learn to accept the way she looks. Society makes women feel that their worth is in their physical appearance not their abilities or achievements. Sharapova would lose all sorts of endorsements if she altered her appearance. Sharapova's endorsements are based on her appearance and not her achievements. She's being rewarded and patronized for fitting the tennis ideal of white, blonde, pretty, and straight while Serena is being punished for not fitting the ideal just as Navratilova was punished. I want to see something actually comparable in the men's game. I want to see the dominant male player's pigeon who has 16 fewer majors and hasn't beaten the dominant player in a decade earning more and have a greater number of endorsements simply because he's pretty.

I think that one way to explore the various issues of race, sexism, sexual orientation etc. would be to consider the Kournikova phenomenon. Would Anna have made such a splash, garnering all kinds of endorsements and media buzz without ever having won a single tournament, if she had been a similarly attractive black teenage girl? Probably not. A similarly attractive white teenage boy? Probably not. A similarly attractive white teenage lesbian? Probably not.

Tomic can now boast on his resume that he's been arrested on 2 different continents/countries lol what a fucking cunt. He's very arrogant without the accomplishments to back it up (not that arrogant, accomplished people are acceptable either but unaccomplished and arrogant is far worse). Tomic is also very ungrateful to Tennis Australia. Who knows how much money they've spent on him over the years and he whines that it's not enough? He whines that they charge him for practice courts? Just an awful brat.

lol at his mugshot. He does look embarrassed

BT is a brat, R127. Troo dat.

Interesting article here that mentions how Martina Navratilova started the entourage thing in tennis lol she did it before any other female or male. Back then this decision was looked at negatively by the press and other players. She started by having a team of gf/coach Nancy Lieberman, hitting partner/strategist Renee Richards (yes THAT Renee Richards) and nutritionist Robert Haas. As time went on, she added more people and also changed the lineup. Since then, it's become common for most top male and female players to have a huge team.

yes Martina was a trailblazer in many ways...

meanwhile DC drama! Simon choked a set and a break lead against Murray to lose in 4 sets. He got bageled in the 4th lol Simon is such a wimp

On the heels of Tomic's Miami arrest, his fellow brat buddies Kyrgios and Kokkinakis lost shamefully to their Kazakh opponents. Hewitt and Groth replaced them for the doubles and the 2 remaining singles and saved the day for Australia.

So Sharapova and Dimitrov has officially broken-up. Isn't some poster said the relationship was all PR and will soon end? Is Sharapova really a muff diver...

My inquiring homo-mind wants to know ;)

There is a blind item from Pop Bitch that reads as follows: Which Wimbledon favourite is said to be hiding a same-sex love behind a convenient, PR-friendly relationship?

Athlete?

Interesting that this blind came out right before Sharapova and Dimitrov broke up. I've heard the rumors about Sharapova for years. Too much buzz for there to be nothing. My guess is she is a big lesbo but keeps it on the DL due to all the money she gets from endorsements. I don't know why advertisers love her so much. Go to one of her matches. Most people in the crowd are rooting against her. She's not very well-liked by the public.

The contract is up. No one buys Pova's heterosexuality anymore. Just be yourself, woman.

What about Dimitrov? Could he also be hiding something? Otherwise why he allowed to be used - I mean he is one of the more promising star player around.

r132–r136, there's already a generic DL thread on Gays and Tennis, which is probably more appropriate for the Sharapova–Dimitrov double-bearding combo. Link below.

Bump for news of Cuntapova-Dimitrov split. Is there another tennis thread?

See r137, r138. There's a link to the other thread there.

Wow