I'm quite old and in gay years, I'm beyond ancient.

[quote] Lord knows I was fulfilled physically for decades in my real and imagined youth.

What on earth does this mean?

Your question is as muddled as you are.

thanks for taking the time to make me feel worse.

You start a thread about yourself on DL to feel BETTER?

How long have you been here?

[quote]What on earth does this mean?

That you're a nitwit?

'That you're a nitwit?'

That's a question...the answer is no.

It truly takes a special type of person who will invest his time to deliberately belittle another person.

The question is: Why are there so many of them on DataLounge? Don't these people know there are small insects they could be dismembering? They can do that for free and save 18.00 a year.

Well if you were physically fulfilled for years don't worry about what you might have missed out on.

Most of us don't even get that much out of life.

[quote] It truly takes a special type of person who will invest his time to deliberately belittle another person.

No, it doesn't. It's quite easy to do and most of us learned how during childhood. There are thousands of examples in culture and history of casual and organized belittling of others. Don't make it out like it takes any special effort or thought.

I'm 42 and I've accomplished nothing of note with my life. If I were to die tomorrow I know my parents would miss me but I imagine it would be a sparsely attended funeral.

Mulling over your life as you lived it is just what people do at your age. If you were happy while you were living your life what you have now is introspection, not regret. You'd know if it was the latter, believe me

Can I have your stuff?

OP - Why don't you say how old you are, and be specific about what might not have not been fulfilled yet. What is to come? Or, do you really not know, is that the issue? A gnawing but imprecise feeling?

I love it, I can only imagine doing what I'm doing for another twenty years and then calling it quits.

You're not the only one, OP.

As I pass 50, I'm growing to really hate being old, and now I feel I'm just marking time until I die. And I'm hoping I don't live as long as my grandparents did because god, another 35 years of this? I couldn't deal...

Since everyone things Angelina is crazy and possibly dangerous, why do these humanitarian institutions give her any cred and send her places???? Geez she isn't Josephine Baker, despite the adopted tribe. She seems to be an OCD freak. But who knows.

R14, what do you hate about being old specifically? What can't you do at 50? Is it just a matter of how others see you?

OP, I think that's pretty common. The fact is, there's always something more that each one of us could have done. But, you're still alive, and even though you're ancient, you still have some time left. Is there something specific that you wanted to accomplish but didn't? If there are particular things that you still want to do, make a list of them, and then do them.

oops sorry for my Jolie screed in the wrong thread.

I am older. I have been healthy for most of my life, never a hospital stay. I've always had work that provided enough for me, now retired but still modestly comfortable. Perhaps I made safe choices and missed some opportunities and excitement. I don't have as many close connections as I would like, I have 2 or 3 good friends and little family. No, my life is not distinguished in any way. Yet I am content. Why ruminate over lost chances and regrets, OP? If you haven't felt fulfilled until now, it won't happen. Be glad for time left.

How old are you, OP?

R20 He said he was Pre-WWII (U.S.) by 2 days, so that would make him 73 as of last December, if I'm reading him correctly.

Look, I haven't lived a full life or a great life, but it's a life that has been a lot better than I thought it would be. For a while there it looked like I was never going to be anything but a total loser, but I actually made some stuff happen and things are way better now.

Expectations are funny things; if you exceed your expectations in any way it makes you happy, even if your achievement isn't impressive to anyone else. And even the most wonderful achievements can seem like nothing, if your expectations were unrealistically high going in. Do you realize, starting out with pathetically low expectations gained me a bit of extra happiness later in life? I never realized that.

R16, how long of a list do you want?

The way I see It from hearing and rearing stories from old folks its like this, you either have an amazing fulfilling youth (amazing sex, being desired, whatever) and a miserable older age, or a miserable youth and things get amazing at older ages . Few people seem to have it amazing at both ends. I said few, not everyone. So good for you if you are one of the few ones. In my case I think I am in the miserable youth team, lol. But I am still young (below 30) so who knows.

R24, and some of us have it miserable at both ends.

R25 damn dude, sorry to hear that.

OMFG you drama queens that are 50 and whinīng about being 'old'! Gawd, SHUT.UP! Besides, '50 is the new 40' honeys.

Srsly? I work with OLD people. 50 ain't old. But I will tell you this: DO EVERYTHING YOU WANT TO DO and DO follow any dreams you have, and dreams change, remember that. Every 80 and 90 year old would trade places with your age, not necessarily you, in a heart beat. If you can move your body, get off your god damned ass and GET BACK OUT THERE!

Now I don't want to see this shit again.

Fuck off, R27.

OP a "full life" can be quite different from person to person. Leading a good life is far more important than leading a full life.

I'm 58 and this is the best time of my life. My spouse and I retired and this is our first summer of freedom. I am hoping to stay healthy and active for a long time.

OP, we are the same age and you are depressing me. Cut it out!

R28, nope. Not gonna happen. Use your Ignore option like I shall do you.

I've had a full life. When I'm gone from this Earth, people will still be reading things I've written, so that's nice. Now, I'm at the point where I want to just relax, explore the beach or hiking trails, or just read -- but people keep calling me back to do more.

It might be this is symptomatic of many people, gay and straight, who get older and didn't have kids and feel unfulfilled. In the past, gay men took on a mentoring role for younger gays and introduced them to theater, opera and the like but that looks like it's fallen by the wayside as well. AIDS did a real number on that concept.

I think very few people feel fulfilled at the end of their lives but then I think unreasonable expectations are built into us. We get on paths, set in stone, and they're very hard to stray from. A great friend who accomplished an inordinate amount in his life--insanely successful career, deeply loved by millions, many great friends and he did much good for many--spent the last 3 months of his life alone in his bedroom deeply depressed over what he didn't have. In a particularly candid moment he admitted to me and another of his friends that he had spent decades with a man he loved but mostly as a friend (not a particularly caring one) and traveling companion. But it had been easy and now he was sorry he hadn't been braver. I thought he was extremely brave for his time but he disagreed. Then he shocked us by admitting he had deeply loved and carried on an affair with a friend we all knew--a young girl of all things. He wished he had followed his heart but feared his "partner" would out him. He had been closeted (though he would never use that term, I never once heard him use the term "gay") in both areas of his life and it cost him dearly. At the time I was grappling with being in love with a man for the first time and I believe he heard about it (though it's not something you would ever discuss with him) and was trying to send me a message. I'm 46, have been out pretty much ever since, but I don't think I feel much more fulfilled than he did. So what's the answer? I think you have to plan for the future as best you can but focus you real energies and finding joy in little things each day. I think...

What is a full life anyways? I suspect most people just want to imitate the image that the media and big commerce are constantly shoving down our throats.

OP here, I've come to the conclusion, a full life, is an illusion. My Dad shared very few philosophical moments with me, but one of the few that stuck with me was, 'live your life so you will never look back and say, I wish I had of done this or that." While my this's & that's have gotten me into a few tight situations, I must say it has proven to be the best advice anyone ever gave me. Looking for fulfillment in life is like trying to find the end of our universe, a distance and boundary that may not exist. Our capacity to experience new aspects of life never comes to end until we die. Therefore, the degree of satisfaction we feel as we age may simply be one/a measure of our intellect. The greater the feeling of satisfaction the more limited is the scope of that parameter of our intellect. I know this seems backwards, but for me it is the only way it could possibly make sense.

The other shared bit of my Dad's thinking was, "one of the biggest benefits of education is the broadening of our understanding the vastness of our ignorance."

R36 has it correct. Sadly.

"Is that all there is?" (Dissatisfaction has been around longer than that...)

My heart goes out to you OP. Don't listen to the nastiness that some have expressed here.

My partner and I had an amazingly fulfilling, full, wonderful life together. I had to make an end of life decision for him. He lay unconscious in the ICU on our 40th anniversary and died a few days afterward when I authorized the ICU chief doctor to pull the plug. Hardest decision I ever had to make. I'm crying as I type this.

It has been very difficult, after 40 years, learning how to live alone without him, how to be independent and get on with it.

That's a very sad and moving story R40, I feel for you *hugs*

"It might be this is symptomatic of many people, gay and straight, who get older and didn't have kids and feel unfulfilled."

Kids don't necessarily make people feel fulfilled, but IMHO if you don't have kids then yes, it's a good idea to do something as an individual. Help other people, fix yourself, travel, master a craft, leave something you created behind, do something with your life other than going to work and coming home.

If you have kids then you can at least *claim* that going to work and coming home has a great deal of meaning, not that I believe every such claim. Most people with kids don't seem to be very happy about it, although I do hope that when they're older they can be proud of what they've done.

I've never had a partner in my life really. I was nearly 20 before I met my first gay person (came out at 18, knew since I was 10). Didn't lose my virginity until I was 22. Two week flings, a few months-long "relationships" that burned bright and flamed out fast. After ten years of very little I spend my mid-30s kind of sleeping around (one-night stands, tricks, backrooms, bathhouses). Never caught anything. Had fun. But obviously never made a connection. Gave that up before I turned 40 and tried hard to date. Never found anyone I clicked with that clicked with me (one-way is easy, mutual is hard). So many first dates, so few second dates, rarely a third. As I enter my 50s I'm just giving up. I haven't had a date in years, I don't bother going out any more. It's been a pretty miserable and lonely existence, and honestly I can't wait for it to just be over.

I got some 'sad' news today; someone I was settling for to be just a friend really isn't interested in hanging out anymore.

This SHOULD be good news. I should be moving on, finding someone for reals.

I got the 'changing my expectations' speech from (another) friend at breakfast today. (He's rich with a hot boyfriend, btw.) I said here's what can never change: "I want to be attracted to the person" emotionally, physically...where we are comfortable saying nothing as we are saying something.

If changing my expectations means marrying a friend I have no real physical attraction to then I almost want to say 'then let death come.'

But I can't. I don't know how to turn off having hope.

Which is most of my problem.

This apparently has been too much to hold out hope for.

R44, forget that last sentence -- and perhaps most of what I wrote.

THIS is what I meant to say...

My Mom and Dad were married for 72 years. Dad died three years ago. Mom has done amazingly well but still survives with the help of Paxil. Without it she's quite depressed and cries a lot. Still, it takes a strength just to take pills that you know are only masking the sadness that is close to the surface. There are no answers to the end of life frustrations, I guess the best solution would be to exist as we suspect the other animals do and simply not be aware of the possibility of death.

I am a teacher so 10 months of the year I have interesting relationships and there is a lot of energy coming and going, lots of circulation. I have my existential crises from time to time, and sometimes loneliness if I don't have a bf. I just try to keep busy and model myself after my grandma who did the same, just keep busy explore new things with the body and mind, and if you must stew, stew while being busy and somehow constructive.

The job is pretty much key these years, because without kids, its always worthwhile and satisfying, fulfilling, to have some impact and exchange with students. Have to see it as two way, otherwise you get sucked dry, like some of my colleagues. But youth is very life force giving.

The people you are involved with professionally or socially have to give me some good energy back, and so far, so good.

I have been brave in a number of relationships, sometimes that bravery involved sticking, sometimes involved splitting. I am psychologically simple enough to take satisfaction that I've had fulfilling relationships, thats what I believe, and I don't feel sad when I don't.

I worked in poverty and for extremely poor people a few times and also worked for billionaires for a few years and lived their lifestyles. I feel this helps me be content with the average middle class life I lead. I didn't "miss" anything, and I haven't felt deprived or envious for 30 years of how others live.

Lived in a few different countries, that helps.

Done a few different careers, that helps.

I am a very odd bird and spent a total of 8 years getting a bachelor only, studying so so so so many things and sometimes quite deeply, but thats what my mind wanted. To really explore. Graduate education in the humanities - I found it petty, political and a lot of intellectual bullshit. I get why its required and the benefits and I get the need for graduate education in the professions - law, medicine, engineering but for humanities, not my cup of tea.

I think the the trick to avoiding despair is a pretty large life, cultural, and intellectual experience. Having references and relativity. Not seeing many things in black in white, not having a binary mind. But that's just me.

I've known happier and more fulfilled people who lived quite narrow lives physically, intellectually, and spiritually.

I guess the summary is that it's all relative. Be generous to people and look for an exchange of energy. Also take drugs and have some good LSD trips. Explore all the drugs. And all the sex.

I think older people need some good drug trips to reset. Or really powerful physical experiences. People get locked in, shut down, tensed up over the years. Got to let your hair down, keep things open.

I'm 53 and am very fulfilled and hope to go on that way.

I was raised in chaotic poverty. My alcoholic father didn't finish high school and ran out on my high school educated mother who had her demons. She also had two other children and worked low-paying jobs to support us.

To escape from the harsh circumstances I lived inside my head and chased my dreams many of which didn't come true but for some it really is the journey and the destination. An older queen who later committed suicide told me I would end ip living on a subway grating because I was so lackadaisical.

The happiest and most fulfilled people I have known were the struggling artist types that are scorned here.

I've eked out a living and have survived and thrived on my own terms in Manhattan.

I was never a knockout but was cute, then good looking, then handsome and now moderately craggy in a Willem DaFoe way. My dick is on the large side of average. I was promiscuous and took every opportunity to have sex.

Six years ago i feel in love with someone who loves me. It was really the first relationship I have ever had. He is 15 years younger and really instigated the situation. I said I was old and poor. He said he'd been with enough people his own age who were gainfully employed and that they were all boring. It was a miracle and I believed in miracles.

Four years ago I started my own business that though only makes up half of my income has been the most fulfilling thing I have ever done besides having a good relationship.

Most of the gay men who post here are typical white upper middle-class queens who put so much stock in money and security and end up lamenting their tedious safe paths.

" I said here's what can never change: "I want to be attracted to the person" emotionally, physically...where we are comfortable saying nothing as we are saying something. If changing my expectations means marrying a friend I have no real physical attraction to then I almost want to say 'then let death come.'"

Sometimes, what you're attracted *to* can change, even by design.

I wonder if there are any truly unhappy gay men who are very well endowed. I'm sure there is the exception, but I bet most hung guys find sufficient happiness to see them through a lifetime.

Your life is what YOU make it. It's all made up. Only you can decide if you are "fulfilled" or not. It all comes from within. There are lots of messed up people in this world. They wouldn't know how to be happy if they followed a fucking instruction manual. Mostly, it is simply a decision to be happy. Yep. Attitude. We can always control our attitude, if nothing else. I am in my fifties and this is the absolute best time of my life. But not because I have achieved everything (many many things still do to) or have a ton of money or a perfect husband. Mostly it is my spiritual journey and the understanding that I control my OWN life. And I can choose to be happy. No one else can do that for you. And never give up hope. Ever. Ever. Ever. When hope dies, life is like a broken-winged bird that cannot fly. Most old gay men I know and have ever known have been pretty miserable, though. But I am quite certain this is because society did such a number on your psyche, your self-esteem, your self-worth that you never learned to love yourself or even respect yourself. It is internalized down into your DNA and you don't even realize it. Which is tragic. THAT is at the core essence, I believe, that most older gay men don't feel like they have had fulfilled lives.

R51, you helped more than you might think.

I don't think gay or straight has much to do with the discussion on this thread. Our final years, months, days are pretty much the same for all. We're alone when we enter and we're alone when we exit. If we are conscious for our final days, there is very little chance any will be elated about dying unless there is pain involved. Life happens all too fast for one to dwell on opportunities for fulfillment, Just making it to the grave or furnace without inconveniencing too many people is a pretty successful life. I look it at this way. I've enjoyed more good days than bad and in today's world, that's win.

I think gay has something to do with it because straight men do grow old and die often enough with their families and children and grandchildren around them. Gay men less so.

Also I am somewhat traumatised by the AIDS years. Some harrowing times. I was fortunate enough to be young enough to keep my hope rather easily. Not everyone survived with hope intact, let alone health.

R40, I'm so sorry for your loss. I've had to do that before too (though not a partner). I would like to offer this thought to you in case it may be useful sometime:

In your most mournful moment, try to remind yourself, he would not want you to be miserable. So long as you are alive, he is with you. And he would want nothing more than for you to be happy. You'll never, ever forget him, of course, so take him with you on your new adventures in Life :) Take good care of yourself sweetie! It matters.

I can't believe someone actually MEANT "I'm crying as I type."

I'm 23 and want to say that the posters in this thread give a great deal of wisdom and experience to a group of people, like me, that they may not know exsist as an audience. That's something.

I've had sufficient

“We work in the dark - we do what we can - we give what we have. Our doubt is our passion, and our passion is our task. The rest is the madness of art.”

― Henry James, The Middle Years

Words to live by.

I'm not quite sure what the OP is asking but I'll take a stab:

I'll be 62 on Thursday. When I think back I realize I have done a lot- experienced a lot. I cringe, smile, and get sad. When I find myself feeling sorry for myself, I snap out of it because well- I've had some terrific experiences, relationships with incredible men (and others) beyond anything I imagines at 19, I have survived, I have had a good career, and I have friends and family who love me. And yes I have made mistakes and have regrets. But I still want and desire human intimacy- I long for the same things I did years ago emotionally. Only now I don't suffer it all quite as much, rather I am glad I still want the opportunity to make a fool of myself- in short to live.

But time is short- gosh you realize this as you age. And frankly I avoid looking back- and lately I try to avoid looking forward because time goes faster and I see the end game. So to increase my chances of contentment and peace of mind, I try to live in the moment, the day, the next activity, and leave the rest someplace else- that I can occasionally visit.

I love reading how so many do various things/activities to accomplish the same thing. There truly is no one right way of enjoying life, but enjoying life is the answer. Everything we do should be focused on making life as enjoyable for ones self and everyone we come in contact with. Even though this is an impossibility, we do a better and better job of making life enjoyable with the added effort.

All of should be aware of how many miserable bitched exist just from reading evil comments on DL, but even here on our board, there have been more signs of increased kindness than increasing meanness.

A big factor in my life was when I totally rejected my Catholic upbringing, and became a 'radical atheist'. I had to accept the reality that my life is what I made it to be, and that only, I, determines my fate and happiness, and disregard the absurd notion that if this physical life isn't satisfying, I'll get a reward in heaven. Such childish nonsense.

I find it helps when I buy young girlie things to wear. I don't feel so old. I know it looks silly on a 6'4" guy, but hell no ones ever going to see me again, so why worry.

R55. I can't tell you how much your anonymous sympathy note means to me, especially here on DL. I have had a very small supportive network and kind words like yours go a very long way in helping me through this. I have, of course, read the book Gay Widowers which I found helpful and I have learned from both straight and gay friends who say, You'll never get past the grief. You will only work your way through it and find ways to live with it. Thank you. Thank you. And Thank You, again.

Note to the person at R56 who wrote that he'd never read someone who wrote, I'm crying as I type, mean it realistically and not metaphorically. One never knows after living with and sleeping with someone for 40 years when tears are going to appear and overtake you. I'll take your comment as a kindness. Thank you.

R64, I'm R55 and if I could, I'd give you a hug and then take you out to lunch and for some ice cream in the park :) We could tell our best bad jokes to the pigeons. Take care of yourself!

[quote]I saw my whole life as if I had already lived it. An endless parade of parties and cotillions, yachts and polo matches. Always the same narrow people, the same mindless chatter. I felt like I was standing at a great precipice, with no one to pull me back, no one who cared... or even noticed.

Datalounge isn't group therapy. Get some help honey - we're concerned.

Yes. I've had a good life. If I die tomorrow I will say I've had a good life.

K?