Bottoming hurts

You're a whore, darlin'.

How big is he?

So much of it is mental. You have to learn to relax. Get a sex toy, practice on yourself. Most people don't like it the first time, we aren't used to sticking things up our ass and your mind can only connect it to the feeling of pooping.

Once you adjust, many gay men obviously find they fucking love it. Maybe you won't, it happens, learn to enjoy topping.

Lubrication of some sort right before would reduce pain/discomfort and increase pleasure.

Some people just don't have the pelvic width to be a bottom.

Thanks esp. R3.

I'm a natural top, I think, but so is the guy I'm with, so we sort of need to mix it up if we're going to have anal sex. I really want to be flexible.

About the sex toy, I have been too embarrassed until now to buy a dildo but I guess needs must. What size should I get? Start small maybe?

R6: but so may gay men enjoy bottoming - a lot....

OP - I have no idea what a natural top might be. Maybe you try explaining that before focusing on your other inadequacies.

OP is the absolute worst.

A nice up-curve and a gentleman=HOT! A sweet bottom=equally HOT!

It hurts.

Start small, R7.

[quote] How do I learn to enjoy it?

You don't.

I used to think I was an exclusive bottom, until I realized that I hate bottoming.

It hurts, it's painful, and the pain lingers for days.

Some people were made to bottom. I'm not one of those people.

So I tried being a top, but that didn't work either, because it's not my thing.

And now I've just given up on sex altogether, and just jerk off to porn.

It's faster, easier, and less hassle.

The lesson? You should never force yourself to do anything.

"The lesson? You should never force yourself to do anything."

And then end up jerking it alone? Doesn't sound like a good lesson to me. I think the better answer is to relax, open yourself to new things, and learn to enjoy them with someone you care about.

maybe you should top instead of bottom

Bend ovah, bitches!

Don't let porn or anyone tell you it doesn't hurt. If you're new and your ass is tight it's going to hurt. The only way you'll be able to take it is if you take a painkiller before sex and learn to douche out with warm water. Don't eat greasy nasty food prior to anal sex or you'll have a smelly accident.

"The only way you'll be able to take it is if you take a painkiller before sex and learn to douche out with warm water. Don't eat greasy nasty food prior to anal sex or you'll have a smelly accident."

Too much work and it's not worth it

[quote] take a painkiller before sex

Doesn't work.

It might have hurt a couple times when I was nineteen and first started bottoming, but I'm 37 now and get a lot of pleasure from it (I've cum several times, hands-free just from being topped). The top needs to ease his cock in in the beginning though. It hurts if they just ram it in balls-deep on the first thrust (and you have to kind of give your ass a break for a good minute or two to recover from that and then have the top ease in slowly with lots of lube).

I dated a total top once and he told me that every time he bottomed it was like he was being murdered. His doctor actually told him that his anus was literally not made to be penetrated and that it would always be extremely painful for him to bottom. So, I think there really is something to the whole "he's a natural bottom" "he's a natural top" thing. Some guy's bodies are built to not take a cock.

To the homophobic cunt at R6: you have no idea what you're talking about. Isn't about time to go pick up your children from soccer practice? I'd send your husband over to do it, but he's, well, busy this afternoon taking care of more important errands.

Ok I'll get a dildo then.

It's a lot of work. It's times like these I wish I were straight.

[quote]It's times like these I wish I were straight.

Then save yourself the time and effort. If your heart is not into it, then you won't enjoy it, and you'll be a terrible lay. Seriously, dude. If sex seems like a chore, you're doing it wrong. There's plenty of other things you two can do together.

Welcome to the sorority, hun @ r22. But ya'rent, Blanche.

The first time I bottomed it didn't hurt at all. I was showering with a fuck buddy and we kind of just did everything we possibly could to get turned on, so we took turns fucking each other(among other things). Maybe it was because we were so young and inexperienced and didn't even get it all the way in, but it just felt really hot to me. In those days, I did a lot of bottoming, and it only hurt once, because the guy just stuck it in without lubing up and basically put his whole dick up me almost immediately. Other than that, I've always enjoyed it. But you may meant to be a top, OP. I personally enjoy doing both, but don't do it if it hurts too much.

Face it, OP... you're not a bottom.

I have a similar issue. IT's just PAINFUL. I've tried tiny little dildos and buttplugs, and they all hurt like hell. I wish I could enjoy it, but I don't.

Start with a prostate massager so you learn what a pleasure center your ass can be and carry that mental association into other forms of ass play. Then try some small butt plugs. Jerk off with one in your ass. Then move on to a small dildo. The key is to give your body a moment to adjust when you first insert the tip. Take a minute or two. Make sure your breathing is relaxed. Don't insert it further until you feel comfortable with where it already is. Repeat this in as many small steps as necessary until you've got it in. Then you can thrust.

The biggest barriers to enjoying bottoming are lack of lubrication and lack of patience. Some guys get off on the initial pain of an impatient penetration, or they find what follows great enough that they'll bear it, but if you go real slow and use lots of lube you should be able to take an average sized penis without feeling any pain. Problem being, of course, that this requires the top forestalling his pleasure for a considerable amount of time and for a lot of guys that really defeats the purpose of topping.

Pressuring yourself to bottom just to please your partner and then orchestrating the entire experience around his pleasure is basically a recipe for bad/painful sex on your end. If you can't find any pleasure from playing with your own ass on your own time, you really shouldn't attempt to bottom.

Feel great to me. Sorry ssshole at R6.

Listen to your body, OP.

If it isn't happy, then don't do it. Sex is meant to be about pleasure, not gritting your teeth and trying to bear it. That's just self-abuse.

If topping isn't for you either, then you get to create a sexual repertoire around sucking each other off, hand jobs, maybe using some toys that suit you both. It isn't the law that gay sex has to include anal.

To be honest, the first few times I bottomed it hurt like hell. Then I did it with a guy with a small cock (less than 5") and it was so much nicer. Don't believe that the bigger the cock, the better the pleasure. Just do it with an Irish man rather than an African-American man.

Square Peg makes silicone toys that are very comfortable. I'd start there.

Not a shill, saw their plugs recommended on DL and am now a fan.

Here are a few tips for you OP:

Thanks everyone. The thing is, I really want to top, have always fantasised about topping and find that the thought of doing it really turns me on (which is part of the problem - psychologically I'm not that into bottoming yet). So if I were with a bottom I would have no problems.

But I'm not, I'm with another top so we have to switch things round a bit - which I'm happy to do. I don't even mind if I don't get much pleasure from bottoming at first - but I don't want the *pain*!

This is what works for me: It goes in, it hurts like hell, it is not comfortable. Then have him take it out, re-compose your thoughts and re-gain your bearings, recuperate, wait about 90 seconds. Chill for a minute and BREATHE. If you have to, walk around the bedroom for a minute. Then have him put it back in. Ideally it will slide right in and you'll be fine. TRUST the thrust.

I was told by one of my first boyfriends that if I couldn't handle being fucked up the ass no guy would ever want me and that I wasn't worth being loved. So far he's been right.

don't clench! push out, like you're about to take the world;s biggest dump (but don't unless he's into that) and his huge cock will just slip right in. oh yeah, lube and condom.

Dyspareunia is the term for painful intercourse in women. Initially it was almost exclusively attributed to psychological reasons, not being relaxed enough etc. Now it's widely accepted that structural causes may equally play a factor. Sometimes if the pain is experienced at penetration or on deep thrusting can provide diagnostic clues. Before making a decision, you should have a medical examination to rule out any physical cause for your pain.

Maybe it hurts because dicks weren't meant to go into assholes, idiots! Duh!

Just before sex rub BenGay on your ball sack, then you won't even feel the pain in your ass.

Feels good to me asshole ^^.

Red wine, like cabernet sauvignon or zinfandel, but it has to be red, dark red, is a natural muscle relaxer. I've used it for when I have a back ache, leg cramps or other muscular problems but it takes at least a full glass. I do know it works for this because I have used it for it but it still takes a little time to ease into it, fingering helps to relax the sphincter muscle. Secret is to relax.

People both male & female, for centuries,have been inserting things in their asses for pleasure, including dicks, stop with the, the ass wasn't meant for inserting things, crap !! And if men weren't meant to insert things in their asses, their prostates would not get such pleasure, from stimulation.

Just FF those people. They have agendas here.

You should start off on top - sit on top of him and let it rest there for awhile to get used to it and then start in.

After a bit of being on top, you can go to other positions a LOT easier.

Lots of lube.

I don't bottom often but love it when I do.

People, for centuries, have also been cannabilizing each other. I wouldn't recommend that either.

I would. Preferably with some fava beans and a nice chianti.

I don't give a shit, pardon the pun, where you stick your dick. I just find it ludicrous that someone is surprised that it hurts. "bottoming hurts" lol. In other news, sticking your finger in your eye hurts too!

R43, in the context of sticking things up our butts, "FF" has a wholly other meaning. Let's stick with F&F. :)

Total bottom here. I can top, and I'm not small, but to get off I have to have something up my butt. Fortunately, man is equipped with more than one appendage.

Some guys are bottoms, some are vers, and some are tops. Doesn't mean you won't ever change, either. Do what feels good. Maybe you'll find a guy who is looking for a reliable top.

Or two.

I'll buy the dildo.

Are there risks to prostate massagers? My first thought was that I don't really want an mechanised implement vibrating around that region. But maybe that's just silliness.

Lol W&W for r46. Well played.

R27, thanks for the sensitive and helpful response.

How long is he? You can only deal with about 6 or 7 before it bangs up to the second hole. Though each anus differs.

Use poppers.

Have a few drinks.

He needs to rim you and finger fuck you.

Practice yourself with smallish dildos. Not too thick and not too long. 6 inchers. The kind most gay guys never buy!

You can also get lidocaine creme that cuts the pain at the sphincter. I used that when i was learning to bottom for a really thick lover.

You have to want it, too.

Also - douche your ass. You might be having fears of dirtiness keeping your hole tight and not being able to just let go and let him in.

Once you learn how to do it, you are going to wonder how it was ever a problem. :)

You're also going to want to put bigger or longer things in there.

If you can learn how to do it, you can go far. You'll be so excited when you let it be pleasureable, you are going to cum without touching your dick, during a few of those first times.

[quote] I was told by one of my first boyfriends that if I couldn't handle being fucked up the ass no guy would ever want me and that I wasn't worth being loved. So far he's been right.

This made me laugh uncontrollably.

Is it necessary to breach the second, inner sphincter for a bottom to enjoy the act or is it breach of that sphincter that causes pain?

Not at all necessary to breach the second door. That is for longer dicks! It depends on your anatomy and how long your partner is. And if he is long, if he knows how to open it. But boy, if he knows how to open it and you know how to take it, woweee.

I am not an expert on this stuff. I have some fist top experience. The dick (or hand of course) is going into the sigmoid colon. There isn't a sphincter its just the colon is narrower and also there is a bend. But experienced bottoms for fucking or fisting they get used to that being pushed through. You'll know if a guy is just banging the limit of your rectum, cause it does not feel good. But if a guy has a long one and the right angle, it goes into the colon and then if you relaxe, all is well again. You can also work up some amazing sloshing noises... And theres also the excitement of knowing the top is going to the hilt (which he enjoys) and you're enjoying it, and its that long dick that was so exciting you when your looking at it and sucking on it, now way up in your bum.

Frankly you younger guys need a lover to teach you how to deep throat and get blowed. Find one of those. I used to teach young ones just like my more experienced ones taught/showed me. But now I'm retired as Mr. Sex Ed, and not interested in young men. Too much vomit for the deep throat lessons, anyway.

i meant - "get PLOWED" not blowed.... spell check

Hurts to bottom. Boring to top (always with a condom). You're doing all the work.

Go Oral all the way.

What about frottage? Does anyone do that anymore? I've seen some hot videos of guys thrusting between other guys meaty thighs, or even feet/armpits if that's your thing. Apparently frottage was more common than anal sex back in centuries past, when few people had running water or easy access to things like soap, condoms or anal douching. There's also mutual JO sessions. And oral. And handjobs. Has anyone here tried the method with a grapefruit?

Or you and your top bf could go pick up a nice twink and share him.

Two important points to remember: 1. You must learn to relax 2. Lots of lube.

How could anyone hate topping?

Poppers

My BF and I don't do anal. I've developed hemorrhoids due to job stress and he doesn't enjoy being a bottom. Our sex life is fantastic and we don't miss it. Talk with your partner and determine if one sex act is that important to your relationship.

a feckless relationship seems a bit sad.

i meant fuckless but spell check

R30 The thing is most guy with small dicks usually don't like to top.

[quote] Bottoming hurts

and WATER IS WET.

I've just never had any desire to try it.

This has been the most educational thread ever. I had no idea that there was a second "entry" way way up in there. You guys are very helpful.

People with hemorrhoids can't bottom?

Some good advice here. He may need to pull out, let you rest a minute, then try again. Impress upon your partner, the need to be patient and gentle.

Ultimately, though, you need to resolve to get fucked every day for a week. By day 7, you'll be begging for it. It's the repetition that gets rid of the pain.

And for the first few days, just suck it up if it hurts. No pain, no gain. Remember, you're doing this for him. It's not about your pleasure: Part of being a bottom is learning to be submissive.

The sooner you accept your role as the bottom/sub, the sooner you'll both be happy. Embrace the idea that your purpose in life (in the bedroom, anyway) is making your man 100% happy. Suck his dick the first thing in the morning and the second he gets home from work, and he'll treasure you like no one else ever has.

And, in all likelihood, you will learn to love bottoming. If not, well, not everything in life is fun but it's for a better cause.

Should I try to relax?

When he puts it in for the first time, it'll hurt. Accept it. Make him pull it out then wait for the pain to stop completely (a minute or two), then you'll find it goes in a lot eaiser. A lot of people either just carry on when they get the initial pain or don't wait long enough for the pain to subside before going again. If you just carry on or don't wait long enough, it will continue to hurt until the sex is over.

Love Hurts!

R74 - take your fucked up S&M fantasies back to the dungeon. Sick fuck.

The only topping that I really like is Cool Whip!

R78 You need to get out more, get some sexual experience if you think R74 is taking about S/M.

Talking, not taking

OK, the big star Jeff Stryker sang about this topic:

"If it hurts at first

that'll pass in time

and you'll see it's no big deal..."

OP, seriously - if you are with a partner who cares, he will insert the head of his dick (lubed up) and tease your ass with it until you are begging for more. Then...fireworks.

bottoming should hurt, I love how the soreness feels afterwards.

This is why God gave us Quaaludes and why Uncle Sam took them away. It all became too easy and too much fun.

R83 that's so hot. I've never had a guy do that to me. I'm going to request it next time

It generally doesn't hurt ( other than maybe the initial penetration) if 1. you know how to relax, 2. you have a partner that knows what the hell he's doing to get your opened up for it, 3. LOTS of lube, 4. if it's just not too damn big. There can be such a thing a cock that's too big but few actually have those. Btming with the exception of 3 guys in my life hasn't ever really been my fav thing but i haven't found it painful either. Other than the 3 i just found it kinda boring..hurry up hun..lol.

I think I dated r74.

r21, oh honey that IS the husband.

If we dated R88, I can guarantee you're a better man for the experience, and a better lover as well.

Try a couple Xanax, relax, and ask him to enter you slowly, use lube too.

A lot of the advice was really helpful!

So we finally got through a long fuck session. He was pounding away and there was hardly any pain, so I could just concentrate on the feeling of having thick hot dick back there. I have to admit, it was pretty great. No prostate orgasm but still so good.

I think I'm becoming a bottom, ever since it happened I keep thinking that I need dick in me...

That was me.

Congratulations OP. I told you you'd like it if you learned to submit.

Love hurts

Use poppers

Try slamming

I'll declare it too. Bottoming hurts. I certainly didn't expect to be so far down on the poles...oh pardon, polls.

Kids NEVER learn!

AGAIN a little fisting goes a long way. One finger, two fingers and so on. You get the idea. Amtrak will come along soon after.

To quote the late Minnie Riperton: Love hurts till your black and blue. Love hurts. Ain't it killing you?

For all you tops: Having a HARD time with him? Push it! Push it real good!

It is supposed to hurt. It is only when your hole is so loose and you don't feel a thing that you have to worry.

What? Me worry?

"we aren't used to sticking things up our ass" "we aren't used to sticking things up our ass" "we aren't used to sticking things up our ass" "we aren't used to sticking things up our ass" "we aren't used to sticking things up our ass" "we aren't used to sticking things up our ass" "we aren't used to sticking things up our ass" "we aren't used to sticking things up our ass" "we aren't used to sticking things up our ass" "we aren't used to sticking things up our ass" "we aren't used to sticking things up our ass"

Read R92, everybody!

It's not a problem anymore. In fact I think I'm becoming a total insatiable bottom. Didn't see that one coming, but I guess it's a happy ending!

NOW YOU TELL US !!!

I don't get the reference R104.

R99, I'm sure Minnie Ripperton said "Love hurts till [italic]your're[/italic] black and blue" (not your)

Fuck.

You're. (Not your're)

I don't even feel like topping anymore. Just getting fucked roughly. Is this normal?

I'm pleased though!

R105 Both of the above female characters "bottomed out" in the Grand Canyon when they drove over the cliff to their deaths at the end of the film. Therefore that was their take on "bottoming hurts".

[quote] To quote the late Minnie Riperton: Love hurts till your black and blue. Love hurts. Ain't it killing you?

Minnie Riperton in a discussion of bottoming? Are you bitches high already?

Hubby was in a rare topping mood this past weekend. Hits him only a few times a year and i'm totally fine with that. He just kinda totally let loose on me and it was pretty hot seeing him so going at it even more than any physical sensation taking it

A great way to get broken in is to smoke crystal meth with your pants off, and place a craigslist ad taking on all comers. Be sure to post your address.

I agree with others-some guys just don't like bottoming and it won't feel good to them. As for me, I loved it from the very first time, although it did hurt for the first minute or two. He took it nice and slow, and he was very thick, not too long.

I want to move on to the 'waves of pleasure' stage of bottoming. Right now it feels good if I jerk off when he's fucking me but I'm not sure if it's just the same as normal jerking off... is it impossible with average sized dicks? Do you need girthy and long cock to really hit the prostate?

Yes, R114. If reading grindr profiles and craigslist posts has taught me anything, it's that nothing less than 8 inches will do.

r114 size has some bearing on that no doubt. Also important are the curvature of a guys dick and the position you're taking it it. mix up the positions and it might hit the spot. I'm generally not primarily a btm but i did have a hot fuck bud for a couple of years who was a master at hitting my prostate. He really got off on hitting it and really mixed up the positions to hit it just right and watch me blow all over the place. On the receive end with my now hubby what get's it every time is him on his stomach and me reservesing it and entering facking down reverse. for some reason that position is guaranteed that his prostate get's an intense stimulation and that's he's blowing in less than minutes with a very intense orgasm. It's often how i finish up. And the harder the better when i do find that spot

It's definitely not ALL about hitting the prostate. It's about getting your hole stretched out and fucked as well. Getting your sphincter stretched is the initial simulation, then it leads to your rectum getting filled and stretched, then you get to the prostate..It's definitely not ALL about the prostate, not even close.

And if it's an average sized cock... experiment with different positions?

In all seriousness, bottoming hurts. There's no pleasure in it. If it doesn't feel good, don't do it. I don't.

Many don'agree with you r119. Hubby certainly doesn't. Can't get enough of it. But it's obviously not for everyone. It's generally not my fav thing in the world but a couple of guys in my life i've really enjoyed it myself.

Yeah it hurts unless you're in the habit of doing it regularly. I'm mostly a top, but I have to say the few times I really enjoyed bottoming is when I was doing it on the regular with my BF. Lube and poppers usually help too. If you're looking for practice a dildo will help you. Otherwise, like many have said, it's not for everyone. Don't be too hard on yourself OP.

lots of lube makes it work out fine

also, trust. any uncomfortable jabbing doesn't work.

[quote]experiment with different positions?

Absolutely. My ex, who initially hated getting fucked, found he could cum without even touching his dick if we used the right position.

It was sort of a "het porn" position with me on my back and him on top facing away. Visually it wasn't great: He was looking at my calves and feet and I mostly saw ass and his back. Easy for me, effort wise, as he did most of the work.

But in that position, my cock hit his prostate just so and it really worked for him.

Poppers, pot.

Haven't tried this but I've been told that mint flavored toothpaste as a lube makes it easier for new bottoms. It's cooling/numbing to the asshole (i.e. the anus itself, not the whiny bottom).

mixing up the positions definitely helps r123. The position for the btm that works just right for prostate stimulation really just varies from person to person i've found. Guess it's the combination of both guys of the dick size, curvature. where the prostate is placed etc. Good tops experiment with the positions to find the spot and you definitely know when you've found it. It also just keeps things fun and interesting mixing it up and i love getting ridden as you describe since it's a great view of the ass and you can watch it go in and out

Go the doctor. You may have a fissure that needs healing time.

This is crazy.

My boyfriend, who said he was a top, just revealed to me that he actually prefers bottoming and is versatile I guess. He got annoyed at me yesterday for wanting to bottom!! He said the reason he got together with me originally was that I was a top. But I bottomed cuz I thought he wanted that.

It turns out Datalounge is right... I couldn't believe it but for some reason most gay men lean bottom, even the ones who say they are tops...

Again, that was me.

On Tumblr/PornHub/etc you see guys taking it (big dicks even) with just a little spit.

Let us be honest, a lot of people can't take it. Don't feel bad about it.

R131 it's a matter of self control. Unless it's someone who's being unnecessarily rough and a monster cock, there's no damage being done.

Yeah, it might be uncomfortable but suck it up for your partner.

This whole thread turned out to be pointless because my boyfriend wanted me to top him, not bottom for him.

I'm amazed...

I've never bottomed. Don't suck dick either.

Hello Brandon @ R134 !

Your story doesn't make sense to me OP. He wanted to get together because he thought you were a top, so why was he so intent on fucking you all the time if he likes bottoming?

[quote] In fact I think I'm becoming a total insatiable bottom. Is this normal?

Are you kidding? Another fucking insatiable bottom gay, yay, just what the world needs...

Yes, it is very common. So many fucking gay men are just obsessed with getting fucked. It can be tiresome.

1) Douche out.

2) Lots of lube

3) Lots of stretching. Starting out small, with fingers and/or butt plugs helps. Sometimes, I even "warm up" my ass before I know I'm going to get fucked. But not so long that you get sore before the b.f.

4) Do poppers. I recommend popperssanfrancisco.com or skyhi.me.uk, since most poppers on the market today are weak versions of the brands available pre-2010.

Hiney Hole is an Exit.

R137 I just checked out the San Francisco site and their prices are sorta high, just a couple dollars less than retail, a few dollars more than other reputable sites advertised online. Unless the price is real good or I can't get them retail, I'd rather buy locally.

I had to laugh today, in the midst of all this horror. Anderson Cooper was blathering on, talking out of his ass, and Christiane Amanpour was just looking at him like, "What the fuck are you on about?" She just finally started talking over him and he shut up.

Oops, wrong thread.

Date a chinese dude. You won't even know he is there.

I topped my husband this weekend for the first time as he's always the top and don't think that'll happen again. He was way too tight and I didn't enjoy it as much as bottoming and when I was done his asshole was gaping. He got off while I was fucking him which is good I guess, but penile stimulation doesn't feel great compared to prostate stimulation to me.

R143 you should have taken a pic of his gaping asshole and taped it to your refrigerator.

Best $25 I ever spent. And now bottoming no longer hurts but actually feels really incredible. Oh and get some high quality lube too OP!

I tried much of what is mentioned above and never enjoyed bottoming...until I tried it immediately after smoking pot. Now I'm bottoming pain-free and having the best sex of my life!

I think it doesn't hurt if you really want the person you are with. You shouldn't be doing anal just to be doing it. And I think letting someone inside your butt is very special because your butt wasn't meant for dicks to be in it. Yet you do it. So the person you are letting in should be someone you really have desire for. Orherwise I find it incredibly natural when it hurts.

Is it possible the guy you're with could be... Not a great lover? I mean, just sticking it in with no warm up is not being to end well.

It only hurts when you're not doing it properly.

R148, do you realize you’re talking to someone from three years ago? Why on earth did you bump this dead thread?

Yuck

I've tried bottoming and it hurt like fucking hell, I thought I was dying. Oh, hell no to that bullshit!

I'm a total top, but not because I'm small minded, I just don't understand how any gay on earth enjoys getting fucked!

It does hurt, but in the throes of passion, when you are so in love with the guy who’s fucking you, and so turned on by his animalistic masculinity, you don’t notice the pain. You’re just so aroused by the manliness he radiates that you give in to the throes of passion and ride every wave of pleasure he gives you. There’s nothing like it.

Bottoming is a state of mind.

[quote] Bottoming is a state of mind.

Not always. Sometimes there are physiological reasons. Not everyone has a perfect anus and rectum. Some men's prostates are positioned or formed in such a way that they receive no pleasure from stimulation.