I've never seen Showgirls

It's one of those, so bad, it's good ones. It tries desperately to be sexy yet is far from it, It tries to be dramatic and is far from it and it tries to be funny and is but in all the wrong places.

What are you waiting for darlin?

Watching Showgirls should be every gayling's coming of age.

Its really a lot of fun and the plot is timeless and has themes that most gay men can relate to.

It's really awful......and LONG.

Careful where you step, OP. Clutch beads have been ripped and tossed at your feet, in utter disbelief.

I'll give you the unPC answer, OP: it is a profoundly misogynistic depiction of female sexuality and competitiveness filtered through the prism of a postmodern melodrama. And thus, gay catnip.

It's a white trash All About Eve, OP. Tons of fun!

Hmm....I guess I should watch!

It's so good for so many reasons... like many others have and will tell you, it's campy as hell. But I think the real joy is in watching how bad and campy it is and at the same time watching the actors perform their scenes with such earnestness. Knowing that the actors filmed this not realizing how bad it was makes it even funnier... (seriously, Berkeley thrashing her titties around in the pool while getting fucked by McLachlan and neither of them realized this movie was a piece of shit?)

On top of that, you take all the buzz that the Director was spewing about the movie... about how it was a feminist movie and how every mother should take their daughters out of school that day to go see it... it's all just so hysterical.

Wasn't it the first NC-17 rated movie?

Don't laugh at me, but i've never watched Showgirls because i read it features a very graphic rape scene. I hate those. And no, i'm not a woman (or a "frau").

R11... skip over it?

Is the scene really graphic? Can someone tell me? R12, i don't believe in skipping: a movie (or a book) must be watched/read in its totality, IMHO

R11 I don't remember any rape scene. Perhaps you're talking about the MacLachlan-Berkley swimming pool sex scene?

It's when Andrew Carver beats and rapes Molly in his hotel suite. Not graphic though, thankfully.

mhh... i might watch it then! i'm so excited!

It's vulgar, trashy, tasteless, horrendously written and badly acted. The heroine is one of the least likeable heroines ever (and she's not meant to be an antihero) and gets ahead in her dancing career by shoving her rival down some stairs.

But OP, how you can wonder what the big deal about this movie if you haven't even seen it? Just see it.

Homer and Marge watching Showgirls

You've got more talent than any dancer I've ever seen, and you're throwing it all away! Screw you! Screw everybody! All right, girls, tops off. It's showtime!

Marge, this is the greatest gift any wife has ever given her husband. I thought you'd like it. And I'm enjoying the friendship - between showgirl and that seamstress.

Showgirls isn't really considered to be a "gay film" is it? What I mean is, it's not just gay people who love it for being so-bad-it's-good.

I don't thing any straight people waste time on camp classics.....

R20 The Room? Battlefield Earth? Flash Gordon?

Gr

Sorry - Granted, you have to be a film nerd to willingly watch films you know will be terrible, but I don't think that makes you gay.

I think a few straight people might have a limited list of campy films as favourites but they aren't all that committed to them. Most gays into camp have lists that runs into the dozens and dozens.

R23 I have straight film buff friends who love a real so-bad-it's-good film, though I don't actually know if they could reel off dozens of favourites. But of course they are liberal, broad-minded, gay-friendly types.

So many great lines. Hopefully I won't misquote too badly:

"What's it like to have a job where nobody cums on you?"

"What do you call that useless piece of flesh that surrounds the twat?...A woman."

R23 And let's not forget lots of straight guys love dumb old Arnie movies like Commando and Conan. Or am I stretching the definition of "camp" too much?

[quote]"What's it like to have a job where nobody cums on you?"

Lol, that is a great line, that is.

I had a great great aunt who was a fan of the campiest bible epics, hercules movies, and gladiator movies. I don't think she watched them as camp however.

Yes I will give you that there is a good repertoire of sci-fi that is pretty damned camp.

R23 Care to make a shortlist of your favourites?

That censored version with badly dubbed dialogue and animated bras is even funnier.

One of my favorite things about this movie is the often looked over subtle, and by subtle, I mean overacted ways Berkley overreacts to everything.

Really high camp? Von Sternberg especially Scarlet Empress. Boom. The Grifters. Hush Hush Sweet Charlotte. Mildred Pierce. A lot of Douglas Sirk and Otto Preminger. A Place in the Sun.

There is a thread on this you know. https://www.datalounge.com/thread/9875645-campiest-films-ever

Apparently someone else thought so too!

R23 I think the kind of people you're describing there are more "geek" than just "gay". And I've known straight people who would watch endless shitty Z-grade horror and sci fi movies.

the camp thread link

Everything wrong with Showgirls...

[quote] Knowing that the actors filmed this not realizing how bad it was makes it even funnier... (seriously, Berkeley thrashing her titties around in the pool while getting fucked by McLachlan and neither of them realized this movie was a piece of shit?)

I think they didn't realise how shit it would be when they first agreed to the project (perhaps they didn't get to read the script), though by that point they probably did but it was too late.

Posted too soon... should have read, "Everything Wrong with Showgirls... that makes it oooh so right!"

Personally if I was Berkley I'd be more embarrassed about Saved by the Bell.

R19 Hmm, looks like Berkley seems to think so:

[quote]She also told the crowd, “I truly can’t think of a better night to have come to the first screening of Showgirls in 20 years a night after a day we got to witness in this lifetime,” in reference to the SCOTUS same-sex marriage decision.

The rape scene is pretty bad and it's the one realistic moment in the movie. After you see it, you'll understand why an African American actress was cast as Nomi's best friend.

R37 I really don't think so. The way they act the film gives no indication that any of them thought it was bad. I think either Gina Gershon or Kyle McLahclan once said in an interview that they didn't know that this was how the film was going to turn out.

[quote]Wasn't it the first NC-17 rated movie?

No that was "Henry & June" starring Fred Ward and Uma Thurman.

This Mary was traumatized by that rape scene, mostly because I wasn't expecting it. Nobody warned me! So be ready to fast forward.

It's pretty brutal, but Nomi does get revenge....

so IT'S graphic! Not sure i understand the part about the actress being afroamerican, and maybe it's for the better

All the best lines:

I've seen the film so many times that now the more subtle things make me laugh uncontrollably than things like the pool sex or ketchup explosion.

One part that really kills me is when the press are talking to Cristal after opening night and a reporter shouts, "Miss Connors, how old are you?" and Gershon gives him this cold, dead stare.

Also, after the black dancers falls and injures her knee... You see her screaming and moaning in pain while Gershon majestically rises up like an angel ascending heaven.

Can't believe nobody mentioned the pedigree of this film.

The reason it's awesome is partially the earnestness of the acting performances and the talent behind the cameras. The best camp emerges when everyone is totally committed to doing a great job (and failing miserably--in this case, let's set aside talent and suggest no actor could come away unscathed from spouting dialogue like this).

Paul Verhoeven is a talented, competent technical director with a flair for infusing the ridiculous into sex and action in order to create films that feel over the top in a gleefully clever, twisted way. Here, his confidence in that talent went horribly awry. There's nothing sexy about it. Verhoeven was coming off massive hollywood hits ROBOCOP, TOTAL RECALL, and BASIC INSTINCT before SHOWGIRLS. If you have any questions about Verhoeven's competency, check out his 2006 masterpiece BLACK BOOK.

Writer Joe Eszterhas had hits with FLASHDANCE, JAGGED EDGE, and BASIC INSTINCT (which was a record spec sale at the time).

When the two teamed up for a sexy takeoff on ALL ABOUT EVE, it seemed like a winner. MGM put up the equivalent of $55 million today for the film. They also promised something boundary pushing--the first (and last) NC-17 film created for general audiences to be given a wide release.

And it is horrible. Horribly enjoyable though.

The crazy thing is verhoven is a good director. Well his Dutch films are. Turks fruit, soldier of orange and black book are masterpieces

Neither have I

Why does it matter that the actress is black? I'm confused

You sort of have to feel sorry for Berkeley though. She legitimately thought this was going to make her into a huge star. At the time, it was a major coup to land the role and by all accounts the expectation was that whoever got the role would be catapulted to Sharon Stone level fame.

And instead it basically destroyed any hope of a career she had.

I don't have much sympathy for Berkeley because she never had much talent to begin with--she had a great body and big eyes and that was it. And taking this sleazy role was basically whoring herself out--she knew what she was getting herself in for in many ways.

One thing I love about this movie is that "Goddess," the sleazy spectacular they're all performing in, looks so horrible and confusing. They seem to be offering up a virgin for sacrifice to a volcano, as best I can tell.

Berkeley: if she had had talent she would have been cast in other films. Everyone knows good actors appear in bombs.

He followed up Showgirls with Starship Troopers, a good film which uses its cartoon camp to make its points.

One of the odd things is when they're announcing Nomi being hired for Goddess, the producer says, "We could have gotten anyone...Janet Jackson, Paula Abdul."

When did Paula Abdul ever do a show topless?

Wasn't Showgirls damaging to Kyle MacLachlan's career as well? With Twin Peaks he must have been a household name in the early 90s.

Kyle's film career went bust in the 80s, darlink.

R57

And Janet only does topless with Justin!

If I recall its because the Las Vegas show being rehearsed was aiming for huge legitimacy. (Like the film.) Besides he says Latoya not Janet. And Latoya WAS doing cabaret in Paris.

If you don't like the rape scene, the UK version of the film eliminates it for censorship reasons (sex and gratuitous violence are a big no-no). If you have the DVD, there's a commentary track from a guy who ran screenings of the film a la Rocky Horror Picture Show. Even he hated the rape scene and refused to talk about it (it's pretty disgusting and demeaning). Although a complete flop on release, the movie is one of the 20 most successful DVDs ever released by MGM (earning well over $100m).

No, R61, they do say Janet.

In the film, at the press conference announcing Crystal is doing the show they say that they could have gotten anyone, "LaToya, etc..."

After Crystal has the injury and they're looking for a replacement they suggest they get Janet or Paula Abdul.

Elizabeth's speech. I'm glad she has embraced the film.

Dunaway should take notes.

The rape scene is why they cast an African American actress in that role. There was absolutely no other reason. It made no sense why she would take Nomi under her wing until we saw what was in store for her. Nomi does the most ridiculous Emma Peel revenge on the Michael Bolton singer, but not the two bodyguards who also assaulted her. The director has a strange fascination with rape. In Spetters, the fag basher got gang raped and found out he was really gay.

Unlike Berkley, Dunaway actually had a career. Dunaway is wrong about Mommie Dearest and the impact it had on her career (she was in decline from the moment she won her Oscar), but she can at least talk about something else she did with some sort of pride. This was it for Berkley; she married serious money so doesn't need to worry about the consequences anymore.

What exactly is Cristal Conners supposed to have done before "Goddess"? Is she supposed to be a recording star like Janet Jackson or Madonna or Paul Abdul?

The ketchup scene is so brilliant. It almost convinces me every time they're making a terrible movie on purpose.

[quote]All the best lines:

No, not ALL, darlin'.

Cristal! Must have been a top stipper/showgirl.

A joke in Friends. Chandler is organising a bachelor party. He calls to book a stripper and makes some good jokes with her about grapes and gets off the phone and says something like "It's all set with Miss Crystal Chandelier." And Joey says, "Sure! Name a kid that no wonder she ended up a stripper!"

Lord, the demented SJWs can even insert race into a thread about Showgirls.

Incidentally, Drew Barrymore and Madonna were initially approached to play Nomi and Cristal. That would have been a rather different movie.

R71 Well Gina Gershon nails it and redeems herself somehow but Madonna might had tilted to the whole spectacle into the unwatchable, like Evita and Dick Tracy.

I think if Gina Gershon had not been in the movie it would be unwatchable. The fact she's the only one in the movie who is in on the joke really makes the whole thing more pleasurable.

Any movie Gina Gershon is in automatically becomes watchable.

I watched it for the first time tonight and loved it ... except for the rape scene. Kinda like how [italic]Pink Flamingos[/italic] is marred by the animal cruelty.

On the upside, I never realized before what a spectacular ass Kyle McLachlan had in his prime.

E75 yeah the rape scene sort of ruins it for me. I usually just fast forward. I wish Nomi had also beaten the shit out of those bodyguards.

I'm gonna use macramé to kill OP.

Nobody loves it.

"There's always someone younger and hungrier coming down the stairs after you". Truth!!!

I think it's the camp factor, plus it was seen as a mainstream risque film in a time when mainstream films were less risque.

It's only a little "So bad it's good", it's mostly just bad and very long and tedious. All of the characters are pretty unlikeable, so you don't even care what happens to them.

Mostly because the director went into it with the intention of making an overly (badly) acted campy storyline where everyone is awful to essentially show how terrible life is in America. According to rumour the only actual person cast that fully knew what they were getting into was Gina Gershon so she was aware to play it up. The movie is kind of how a French man saw American/Vegas cultre at the time. As for why it's such a cult classic, it's high drama, overly acted,minorities are only there to help the main nasty white female 'make it', the only truly good person gets the absolute worst outcome of anyone, flashy costumes, bitchy completely irredeemable women trying to one up each other and it's totally an unsexy mess. I mean the movie is pretty much capnip for bitchy gays.

Elizabeth Berkley was pretty much cast purely on the point she was a pretty meh actress from a kids TV show and wanted to break out of that mold (like the Disney kids these days do) so she would've done nearly anything to "make it" as an adult actress. That's why it was so easy for Paul Verhoeven to get her to act on an 11 out of a 10 point scale the entire movie.

I personally have always loved it! If you haven't seen it watch it and go in with the mindset it's supposed to be overly acted and bad. Watch the movie, then go watch the documentary about it "You don't Nomi" and you'll maybe start to see the "secret genius" of the movie and why it falls into the category of 'it's so bad it's good'.

Frau here. I went with a straight male friend. I was ready to leave 20 minutes in. I figured with all the nudity he wanted to stay. But even he couldn't be bothered to stick it out until the end. We went to a nearby bar and got drunk instead.

The acting is laughable. But I love the way it was shot. You really feel like you're in Vegas. It's just one of those movies that's so bad it's kind of good. The director was sleeping with Elizabeth so that explains a lot. Even Agent Cooper sucks in it. Sex scene in the pool is one of the funniest I've ever seen.

I was so bummed they never did a sequel with Nomi taking over LA.

Also when you consider it was supposed to be Elizabeth's star vehicle but it ended up killing any career she may have had, it's all the more enjoyable. I remember the pre-press at the time basically believed it might be Oscar bait too.

Elizabeth married very well. She's all set.