Murders that haunt you

The murder of John Lennon rocked me hard.

He had just come out of a leave to be a stay at home dad. The CD he'd released was filled with so much contentment and love.

Then some lunatic killed him.

I have always been perplexed by the Safra Murders.

Vanity Fair did an amazing story on it and there were so many unanswered questions and an underlying feeling that an innocent man went down for this.

IIRC Dominic Dunne wrote the article. I always wanted someone to write a deeply researched book. The VF article was a real page turner and a book would have exposed more of the crime and how things did not add up.

[quote]This picture of 14-year-old Regina Kay Walters was taken by serial killer Robert Ben Rhoades, who toured the country in an 18-wheeler equipped with a torture chamber in the back. This photo was taken in an abandoned Illinois barn, where Rhoades killed Walters after cutting off her hair and making her wear a black dress and heels.

The arson at the Up Stairs Lounge, a gay bar in New Orleans 1974 Fire was set at the entrance stairway of the bar. Firefighters responded quickly and the fire was put out in less than 20 minutes. There was obvious panic and while about half the crowd escaped through a rear exit in a back third room, which was untouched by the fire, people tried to escape through full length front windows that were barred so that drunk patrons didn't fall out. 32 people died either trying to get through those windows or due to burns after jumping out other windows. Thought to be a hate crime, investigation ultimately determined that most likely culprit was a gay hustler who had been thrown out of the bar about an hour before the fire for harassing patrons in the men's room. He killed himself less than a year later and a couple people came forward later to say he had confessed while drunk, but always recanted when he sobered up. Three victims were never identified and one, who was identified, was never claimed by family for burial.

The R4 killings still hurt a lot. I thought of them when the LGBT center in Tel Aviv was attacked and the story was relegated to history.

I find the serial killings of John Christie in London very chilling. The fact that a baby was killed too adds to the horror of it. Rillington Place where he lived in the 1950s was old and run down, and scary looking too. The whole story is just deeply disturbing. Gassing young women in his kitchen under the guise of helping them abort their babies etc the fact he kept all the bodies, including his wife, under the floorboards, just awful. He also looked creepy too.

How about Elizabeth Bahtory? the 'blood Countess'? wasn't she accused of torturing, and killing hundreds of young female servants? The implication being that she got a sexual thrill out of biting, cutting and freezing them to death in winter. Is there any evidence, or was it all made up by her enemies? no one is certain to this day, but it makes for chilling reading. The Marquis De Sade might of invented her in one of his lurid fictions.

Nightmare time

Amelia Dyer the 'Angel maker' a baby farmer in Victorian London who took in hundreds of unwanted babies, from poor mothers, under the understanding they would be given new homes. She strangled them all and dumped them in rivers etc after taking the money from the poor parents. She is the most prolific killer in English history. She was at it for 30 years, they reckon around 500 plus babies were killed by her, hence the term angel maker!

The Brabant massacres

Forgot the link.

The killings of gay serial murderer Denis Nilsen in London in the early 80s are enough to put you of cruising for a while. He stalked London's gay bars, and latched on to around 16 different young men over the course of 5 or 6 years. He would zone in on lonely and vulnerable men ( one was a homeless drug addict) listened to their problems and took them home for sex. During the course of the evening he would strangle them, and leave the bodies lying around the house for days before dismembering them and flushing parts down the toilet etc. He was a very lonely disturbed individual, who couldn't bear the thought of one of his tricks leaving, and the control he had over them by killing them was intoxicating to him. A real psycho. read up on him, it's scary stuff. One of his victims lived to tell the tale, for some reason Denis let one guy go after trying to strangle him. There's a video of an interview on youtube.

Adam Walsh. That one stayed with me for a long time. Still makes me sad every time I see that smiling picture of him in his baseball uniform.

Another one that got to me was the murder of the English kid named Jamie in 1992 or 1993. He was murdered by two 10 year olds. They abducted him from a shopping center, made him walk somewhere secluded two miles away, and then beat him to death with stones, bricks, kicks, and finally crushing is skull with iron plates. Then they threw his body on some railroad tracks to make it seem like the train killed him.

[R13] Jamie Bolger murder? yes, recall that well. Very nasty case. Those two boys were obviously fucked up by their home lives or something. I mean they were ten and had that kind of twisted mindset? It's horrible. Maybe they came from abusive homes? maybe they were victims of physical abuse?

That Jamie Bulger case is horrifying. The two boys stamped on the 3 yr old and shoved batteries in his mouth and anus. They also threw paint in his face. It sounds like a grotesque version of childhood experimentation, only instead of bugs and insects, they used a small child. It makes me feel sick to think of it.

Re the Jamie Bulger case: there was a very good film from about 10 years ago starring Andrew Garfield as a character based on one of the killers. It focused on him as he left prison and tried to fit back into society. I think it was called 'Kid A'. Did anyone see it?

I think both the Bulger killers were out for a while, but now both are back in prison.

Those boys lives are lost for good now. They are entrenched in, I hesitate to use the word, evil, but i guess that sums it up. They are lost for good, I still think they were exposed to violence from a young age, I don't believe people are born evil.

The store CCTV footage of Venables leading little Jamie away just chills you, you want to shout for someone to help. Terrible.

The Original Night Stalker murders/ rapes. The murders occurred before my time but I just find the case incredibly frightening. And the creepiest part about the whole thing is that while I'm a California resident the first time I heard about the case was on DL of all places.

UGH R3....I was going to start a thread on that guy and his pictures a little while ago but I just couldn't. Too sad and creepy. That pictures is the creepiest thing I've ever seen on the internet.

The "Doodler" murders in San Francisco

The Michigan Murders of the late 60s

R17 - No, only one ended up back in prison (on child pornography charges). The other doesn't seem to have reoffended. Ironically, everyone assumed the one back in prison (Jon Venables) was being led by the other, but I strongly suspect it was the other way around.

That crime haunts me to this day. I was the same age as the killers, and I couldn't understand it at all.

I read a book about Fred and Rose West's crimes and the level of depraved shit they did is horrifying. I'd only had the sketchiest idea of what they had done before.

[R20] OMG have just googled the 'Night stalker' killings and they sound terrifying. He robed killed and raped several old women and young kids. He was a 'satanist' how does somebody get this twisted? he must have been seriously damaged. I still think that circumstances and experiences can turn people like this.

The zodiac killer The fact that they never caught him makes it even creepier

ugh I hate the new DL. I like when pics of hot shirtless men show up in threads, but I can't read ones like these for fear of being kept up at night.

The night stalker was truly terrifying because it seemed to break all the rules: he used guns, knives, and strangulation. He also murdered across gender, age, and race. Not to mention the rape of more than one old lady.

Throw on top of that the satanic imagery that was a point of hysteria in the mid 1980s. I was 11 that summer living in Southern California. I was never more terrified...

The Gilgo Beach murders. Especially since the killer used one of his victims cellphones to taunt her family.

Does anyone remember the 'very special episode' of Punky Brewster that was a ripoff of the night stalker?

Fred and Rose West are in a league of their own. I mean, they raped their own kids for fucks sake. How did they get away with it for so long. Fred was really scary looking, he looked like a maniacal killer!

[R28] This was summer of '84 right? How long did it continue for? were people terrified for their lives?

We don't know if it is a murder yet, because they have yet to find the body of Kyron Horman who disappeared in Portland, OR about five years ago. His step mother is the one most people suspect as the murderer, but it boggles the mind WHY she would kill such a sweet little boy. It haunts me because if she is guilty, she is getting away with the murder with every passing day and it seems so unfair that Kyron's parents have to suffer with never knowing the truth and agonizing that his murderer remains unpunished.

R31 - They also murdered their own children. It was Heather West's disappearance that I think led to them finally being caught (Rose had also killed a daughter Fred had had with someone else - Charmaine - IIRC).

I seem to recall in that in the UK there was a serial rapist somewhat like the Night Stalker, who raped old women (and a few men). He was only caught relatively recently.

The black dahlia murder is also scary. Still unsolved

There's a great short series about the Wests on Netflix called "Appropriate Adult".

R36 - Was reading about that recently. What the killer did to her body was fucked up. And there has never seemed to be an obvious motive - if this were some kind sexual crime, I would've thought that there would've been more victims?

R32: I think the murders began in 1984, but the peak of hysteria was the summer of 1985. He was finally caught in July. The constant media coverage and fear went on for about 4 or 5 months.

^actually it was August 1985 when he was caught. The peak of fear was from about match until his capture. He is one of those who devolved quickly at the end. By the end, he was killing almost every week

[R39] I just googled his pic, he looked creepy. Why do they always look creepy too? There's an interview with him have you seen it? he basically says he is evil, and tries to rationalise it by talking about the mass murder committed by governments. He's right of course, but it in no way mitigates his sick crimes. Now I won't sleep tonight. He's the stuff of true nightmares, i keep imagining him sneaking through windows *shudders*

R41: he was creepy. Bad teeth, dark eyes, and menacing jawline. He used to wear a pentagram on his palm and hail satan in the courtroom.

I also recall he was treated by many as a sex symbol. He had a flock of women who sat behind him in the courtroom. He would turn around and flash them this very menacing smile.

[R42] where those fraus crazy? they found a man who raped old women and 9 yr olds sexy??? they sound nearly as fucked up as him.

R43: they were mostly meth freak types and wannabe satanist types. One of them even married him in the 90s! She was one of the stereotypical middle aged portly Wiccan fraus...

^^^ I just read about the Wests. They were freakin sick and demented

Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka. It really left a horrible impression on me at the time. I was a preteen at the time that Leslie Mahaffy and Christine French disappeared, and the later discovery that they had also killed Karla's sister Tammy was a huge shock.

R46: are those the ones known as the Ken & Barbie killers?

Yeah. I read two books on Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka. Turns out she was the one who led him around. Most in the government will now admit that she was the one who really wanted to do the killings. I don't recall their titles but both were good. The better one was written with the cooperation and involvement of Bernardo and his attorney. It was pretty clear the writer had seen the videos. So clear that the crown tried for years to prosecute him.

Nearly as disturbing as the murders was the prosecution and police's incompetence and the gag orders issued to help cover up their incompetence.

I feel incredibly uninformed.

I've only heard of a 3-4 of these cases.

R46 - Jesus Christ, I'm reading about those two on Wikipedia. Seriously fucked up.

R48: I recall reading how the wife got her underage sister pass out drunk on Christmas Eve and offered up her virginity to the husband as his Christmas gift

Definitely seems like the wife was more involved than the way she was charged. She seemed to play the abused wife who only went along to survive. However, it's pretty clear that the husband was a serial rapist at minimum before he even met the wife

That's how the sister died, r51 -- K dosed her with chloroform because the husband said he had a right to the sister's virginity since K wasn't virgin when they married. When the sister didn't wake up, they put her in the basement and later she was found dead. The cops assumed it was an accident.

Invisible Darkness

This is the better book about Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka. This is the author Bernardo and his attorney cooperated with. He's been the only true crime author that wrote without the desire to shield the families of the victims. For better or worse it made the better book. He's also the only writer who realistically deals with Homolka's involvement. Can't recommend it highly enough. You will be amazed at the incompetence of the prosecution and police and how Karla got nearly zero punishment.

K is running around free, with three or four kids now...

The Lindley series did a take off on the case, with Honeysuckle Weeks as a very scary Karla.

Yes, it's a great book R54

I read that book in two days. I stayed up until 3 in the morning reading it. Then limped into work at 8. Closed my office door and brought it up on PC Kindle and finished it at work. You want to look away but you just can't.

The Hyndley / Brady Moor Murders in '60s Manchester... mostly because of this haunting Smiths song, but also the fact that Brady has repeatedly boasted that he could point the authorities within a few yards of the locations of the bodies, but simply refuses to. Evil... those poor children.

They had friends of Bernardo who had looked at the police sketch calling the police and saying "that's my friend Paul Bernardo you need to go check him out". They thought they had already cleared Bernardo, when in fact they hadn't, they only lost the DNA test. So instead of arresting Bernardo they started harassing the callers instead of re-investigating Bernardo. At least one of the girls would have lived.

The sketch side by side with Bernardo and the police did fucking nothing. Even after the calls.

R3 photo is seriously creepy. You always hear about killer's souvenirs, but I don't think I've ever seen one quite like that. Poor girl.

Thanks for the tip on the West based series R37.

The Tate murders does it for me. I remember reading Helter Skelter and no matter how scared I was I couldn't put it down.

The West Mesa Bone Collector, near Albuquerque. They still haven't caught him.

Agree that the Tate/La Bianca Murders pretty much own this thread.

And another old favorite, the Keddie Murders, has always haunted me. No pics of vics, although there are two online. The pictures of the murder room shortly afterwards are scary enough.

Charles Ng and Leonard Lake. Jesus titty-fucking Christ. Nothing compares.

The murder of Phillip Fraser.

That Morrissey song is exploitative.

Landlady from Hell..

R66: it is, but in the best way of being true punk

After the public finally got win of the Crown's fucking up the Bernardo/Homolka case the Fifth Estate did a great documentary on it.

Link to the doucumentary

The little boy in Brooklyn whose Mom reluctantly allowed him to walk alone to school for the first time, only to get abducted and murdered. This occurred a few years ago in NY. I believe his family were Hasidic Jews. I remember the entire community mourned his tragic death. How this must haunt his mother still!

Eigil Dag Vesti. I'd known one of the killers some time before. It could have been me.

R71, sadly that seems to be an age old story. There was a Kate Nelligan movie back in the early 80's (I think) with the same storyline. Might've been based on a true story, but in true Hollywood fashion, Kate's story ended happily with the boy's return.

The murder of Holly Maddux by Ira Einhorn because the smug hippie bastard got away with it for so many years.

Thank you, R72, for the little boy's name. I hope the man hurt no one else, and I am glad you did not get hurt. I wonder how his parents are, today?

I remember that move, R73. If only more in real life had such a happy ending.

I have to say of all the bizarre heinous crimes we've read about, none affecred me more than Jeffrey Dahmer. Especially that last one where the kid was running awat from him and the cops made the kid go back. I know. I've mixed up some of the details, but it still makes my skin crawl to think of him.

I think the other one who still really gets me is the Scott and Lacy Petersen case. O'd love to know what really happened how she died. What set him off, or at least when he decided to go through with it. Did they have an argument? Did he club her in her sleep? Whar was it like for him to wrap a chain around her body, put her in the car, drive to the boat with her dead body then row out and dump her into the ocean. Along with their unborn baby. And then to pretend to be upset and involved in the search for her, doing all those interviews? Bot to mention trying to salvage his illicit relationship with "Amber" ...what a fucking name.

The first

The first "adult" book I ever read was "Helter Skelter" Terrifying, because I was only a few years younger than the youngest Family members. I couldn't comprehend how anyone could do that, especially young women.

The nightstalker - there was no rhyme or reason for why and how he picked his victims. You knew you could be one.

Paul and Karla, Ted Bundy, and several others mentioned already.

But the one I'm thinking of right now that really haunts me is the murder of Shanda Sharer. I read one of the books about her murder and wanted desperately to save her-to tell her not to get into the car. Such sick and twisted girls and so young.

The Moors murders.

There was that one time on Murder She Wrote...

R10 R11 Thanks. I had never heard of them.

I live near the Canadian border. When 'Dateline NBC' aired the story about Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka, my local NBC station had to black out the screen for one segment. The Canadians said if 'Dateline' broadcast the story in Canada, they wouldn't allow those stations to be carried on cable TV in Canada.

R63 The Keddie Murders freaked me out. I've posted twice before on DL about it.

A woman, her teenage son and his friend were beaten to death in the living room while three younger boys slept in the next room.

The woman's teenage daughter disappeared. Her remains were found several years later. The older daughter discovered the murders the next morning.

The neighbors climbed through a window to get the little boys out of the bedroom before the police arrived.

R74 The manner in which Holly Maddux's body was discovered was horrific.

Gacy

R81 I'm surprised it took so long for somebody to mention Gacy. Don't forget about Herb Baumeister.

Gacy, Nilsen, and Dahmer are the ghoulish trinity of Post modern gay serial killers:

Homemade graveyard under the floorboards, dismemberment flushed down the toilet, experiments with zombies & cannibalism...

All 3 grabbing victims while cruising....

Truly the stuff of a gay boi's dream for Gen X

Don't forget the freeway killer(s) in so cal 70s

Was the Smiley Face Killer debunked? Allegedly one or more people were going around killing college-age men and dumping there bodies in or near water.

A retired police detective claimed it was some kind of cult.

R85 "their" not "there"

David Parker Ray, The Toybox killer. He and his girlfriend would kidnap young women, bring them back to their trailer, strip them naked, chain them up, then make them listen to this to tape before torturing and raping them in another trailer with all kinds of insane torture devices (called the toybox). Imagine being the naked, chained victim listening to this tape. Horrifying.

R77 - I read the book about Shanda Sharer 20 years ago, and it still shocks and angers me. What those psycho bitches did to that poor, little girl was beyond sick and evil.

Shonda Shrarer is the first on this thread I have never heard of:

Is that amazing or creepy?

The case of Japanese schoolgirl Junko Furuta, who died after being horrifically tortured for 44 days by a group of teenage boys---eventually she begged them to kill her.

Those sick freaks should have had their heads blown off, but because they were juveniles---and it was in Japan---they got off with less than 10 years each.

daniel Pearl

This isn't in the same vein as others listed but it's still stayed with me: The Hedda Nusbaum case

I can understand being too beaten,abused and afraid to save yourself. My sister was an abused spouse and her sense of self-preservation was destroyed. It was beyond tragic but thankfully she never had kids with her abuser.

What I have never been able to wrap my head around is how Hedda couldn't/wouldn't save her child. I just think I'd fight to my death and/or his death to save my child.

Justice was not served on either side of that case.

Yes R91: that was such a tragic case. Hedda was creepy, but it's unclear what exactly went down under that roof. Steinberg was a monster

I think R20 was referring to the East Area Rapist/Original Night Stalker, not Richard Ramirez.

Nothing came up when I searched so I apologize if it's already been discussed on DL, and it seems like something that would have been. Dennis Nilsen's flat just sold for £300k - £100 less than market value. Who would live there? Ew.

There was a documentary series named Cold Case Files on Court TV a few years back. I don't remember the family's name. A mother prostituted her daughter out, shot her but she survived, but the mother ended up killing her and another daughter, disposing of their remains with no dignity at all. There were even more grisly details, but no use burdening anyone else with them. That was the only episode that ever phased me. I had nightmares about it for a month. I wish I had skipped that episode.

R95: that sounds like Theresa Knorr

Knorr made the daughter finish food that she had vomited into.,, she also convinced her sons to help her beat the 'whore' daughter...

One daughter was kept in a closet. The other daughter was shot, then kept in a bathtub while slowly bleeding out. The sons were made into accomplices to torture the 'whores'

Finally, the shot daughter convinced the schizophrenic mom to allow her to leave if the bullet was pulled out on the kitchen table. This did happen, but the mom & sons tracked her down shortly after leaving and burned her body on the side of the road

The Nilsen murders will send a shiver down the spine of anyone who's gone back to a guys flat at the end of the night, not knowing him from Adam, and had the fleeting thought 'What if he's a maniac?' I know there have been times I have. The thing is it COULD happen that's what is so scary.

I am born and raised here in California.I shared this story on DL before. Back in the 80s in California, my older sister moved into a studio apartment on the ground level with sliding doors leading to a park. The hallway outside of her studio apartment was very dark and secluded. Also, the apartment was very close to the freeway. My parents did not like my sister to move there and they were very upset. However, it took a lot to scare my sister she because has always been pretty tough. At the time she lived in this studio apartment, she worked at night and went to college during the day.

Around 1am my sister was coming home from work and she was driving toward her carport which was located near her apartment. She noticed someone in the dark wearing a ski mask hiding behind a bush. She suddenly put her car in reverse and sped out of there quickly going to the police station and telling them about what she saw. They laughed it off and they didn't believe her. My sister was shocked by their response. She waited for awhile before going back home. She parked her car in her carport, and quickly ran inside of her apartment and locked the door. She got ready for work the next morning and walked to her car. Her front windows to her car were busted and there was glass everywhere.So the killer was there all night. My sister was told that they believed that it was the night stalker because some people were murdered by him very close to where she lived. My sister moved out of there immediately.

BTW, my older cousin used to go to school taking the school bus,but for awhile the kids had to stop taking the bus because the Zodiac killer sent threats to the school that he would blow up the school buses.

[R99] Oh god that night stalker really creeps me out. Your sister was VERY lucky she saw him. But the police didn't even follow it up? that's awful. Has anyone anymore stories about the Nightstalker? what are your memories from that time? I was only 7 and don't remember the case.

This Night Stalker article is creepy.

I just read the Wikipedia page for the Keddie Murders.

Someone knew the skull found belonged to one of the victims. This means someone who bothered with that information also knows what happened but is not saying.

How did the boys sleeping in the other room didn't hear anything? Three people were killed and one kidnapped, how was it done silently?

I hope the find the people who did it.

Hells bells that photo at r3 is awful. The way that poor girl has her hands out trying to keep that fucker at bay. She was only 14. Beyond sad.

Fred and Rose West. I am fascinated by true crime, but they are so bizarre and horrible. The books written by their (surviving) kids are horrific as well.

The doorman in my bldg. (DC) told me there is a serial killer on the loose in the District according to his brother who is an FBI agent. The media aren't covering it except to mention bodies found in places like Rock Creek and the Tidal Basin. But the FBI has found a common 'signature' and they now think it's one killer.

Richard Ramirez must have been mentally ill, but like most serial killers, there was a strong narcissism to him to. One wonders what happened to him in his youth to make him like this!

Most of these serial killers seem to be motivated by sexual desire that has got seriously twisted and out of hand. That tape recording posted really pisses me off, he sounds like some arrogant geek, who's sexual fantasies have gone way too far, and he has allowed them to become actualized. Horrific. The wives and girlfriends of these men are really sick too. Myra Hindley springs to mind

What about the Austrian guy Fritzel?

Does anyone know a murder case of a husband and wife dress designers who were murdered in the 80s? They were friends of Nancy Regan and made dresses for her and other New York high society women. I think the mafia murdered them?

Just looked up Ramirez's Wikapedia entry, and as expected he had a very fucked up youth. His father was abusive to him, and had a violent temper, Ramirez also sustained a head injury from a swing that caused him periodic epileptic fits. But the icing on the cake was the influence of his older brother Mike, an ex serviceman who regaled him with stories of killing in war-zones. Mike later shot someone and Ramirez saw this, and went into himself. It is little wonder his psychological state was messed up. It sounds like he lost faith in the world and went on some crazy revenge mission. Sad!

I was fascinated by this movie I saw about a girl called Ann Marie Fahey. She was murdered by her boyfriend, Thomas Capano who was a prominent attorney and he chopped her up after he shot her, and put her in a styrofoam cooler, (a very large one) and made his brother or some guy he knew help him take it out to sea so he could dump it in the ocean. This was a true story, so I read the book by Ann Rule, And Never Let Her Go. Capano was a psychopath.

Actually it was reading Helter Skelter about Charles Manson, and seeing that movie on TV as a 16 yr old, that got me interested in true crime stories. THe Ira Einhorn story was another one. Ugh.

R102 One of the boys did wake up, and perhaps witnessed the murders.

They found his bloody footprints between the woman's body, the kitchen (or bathroom) and the bedrooom. They think he took he took her a wet washcloth in an attempt to help her, but he had no recollection of that.

Under hypnosis, he "remembered" people being murdered on the "Love Boat". The tv show "Love Boat" had been on the night of the murders, and he was combining those two memories.

Another creepy one... the man who would ride freight trains and randomly kill people who lived near the railroad tracks.

The one about the Senator or a guy running for a seat whose daughter was killed in their home while they slept.

Oh god some of these are really giving me the creeps. Keep them coming lol Does anyone else find that time and distance make these murders feel more creepy? like at the time of the West murders I thought it was horrible, but it is only now when I read the details that I am truly horrified. When somethings reported in the news you sometimes don't get the full picture.

The Death of DataLounge.

A series of announcements threatening the demise of the DataLounge site. The sheer cruelty of announcing the very weekend of the Lounge's demise. And then they did it. They actually killed our old friend DataLounge. And now we are left with an inferior substitute. And haunted by the Ghost of Legacy.

I will never get over this cold, heartless and brutal crime. And I cannot find it in my heart to forgive.

FREE LEGACY! 🗽

R112, I just watched a documentary on Youtube and it seems like everybody knew the murders were Marty, the father of the boy who woke up, and a friend named Bo. Even Marty's wife and daughter claimed he did it. It's unclear why the sheriff at the time declared the case unsolved and why so many evidences seemed to have "disappear".

The sheriff is the real mystery in this case.

There were two sensational murders in the Detroit area recently. A couple of months ago some woman in Detroit was arrested for killing two of her kids and putting them in a freezer in her home. She had beaten tortured and strangled them to death. She forced her one of her other two kids to help her, and threatened them with the same fate. The remaining kids lived in that horror house for almost two years with the frozen bodies of their brother & sister. All four kids were abused and tortured. She was being evicted, and that's how they found the kids in the freezer which she kept in the living room of her welfare apartment. It was despicable she's a complete monster. The kids were school aged, and she simply removed them from school about three or four years ago, and said she was home schooling them. She wouldn't let their fathers (two different fathers) see the kids, lying that the kids were mad at them for non child support, or telling people the kids were away visiting relatives.

The second murder was by a Grosse Pointe businessman who was into S&M and bondage, and had this secret life. He forced his retarded handyman at gun point to strangle his wife while he watched so he could get with one of his bondage mistresses. He owned rental properties and had an S&M parlor with sex toys in the basement of one of his rentals. So after the guy strangles her, he drives her car to Detroit and leaves her in some alley to make it look like she was killed there.

The saddest part IMO, was when his son & daughter who are adults in their 20s and his wife's mother had to hear all the testimony and the gruesome details about his secret lifestyle and the murder of their mother. Both the handyman and the S&M guy got life in prison. This was about a year ago.

Holy fuck r118. Why did the handyman, if he was a) mentally handicapped, and b) forced at gunpoint, get any kind of time at all??

Not saying you're wrong, but that part made no sense to me.

Hey, I'm just telling you what happened. The Handyman was what you'd describe as "slow." he was also a really big guy. Physically very big. He definitely knew the difference between right and wrong. He said he was offered some money, I think $5000 and a used Cadillac if he did it. Not a very bright guy. He was upset about it afterwards and "confided" in a couple of people that he had done something "bad" and he was afraid the guy would do something to him. It was really bizarre to say the least.

For me, definitely the James Bulger murder - my brother and I were a similar age to the killers and we also had a little brother - also called James - who was the same age as the murdered boy. I remembered being horrified that they could do that and really angry when people suggested they didn't know what they were doing. I was the same age, and I could grasp the full horror of what they did, so I didn't see why it should be assumed they didn't.

More recently than that, there was a case in the UK where two boys beat, tortured and (I think) raped some other kids. It was such a horrific case and again, the whole "oh, they must have been abused themselves" script made me livid. It's no excuse. No excuse at all.

If you look at the comments women leave under the videos about Ramirez they will utterly appall you. I can't work out if they are being sarcastic or serious. If these women are serious, then i feel sorry for them 'Oh he's so handsome,' 'oh I love him' weird! He was creepy looking and these women must be batshit crazy like the mad woman who married him. Are fraus really that easily charmed?

The group torture of Sylvia Likens by Gertrude Baniszewski and her trashy kids

Are there any women on here that can explain what the erotic allure is of mad killers? what do you find attractive about them? Are all fraus a bit masochistic?

The Pettit family home invasion in Cheshire, CT a few years ago. The mother and two daughters were tortured over 24 hours and then had gasoline poured on them before being set on fire. The father was nearly beaten to death and managed to escape the burning house. Connecticut temporarily overturned its ban on the death penalty so that the two killers could be charged with capital murder. They're on death row. One thing that stuck with me from the case was that the two girls were so excited that the latest (last?) Harry Potter book came out - they had just gotten it and were reading it together. They were so young and innocent.

I was curious about whatever happened to Hedda Nussbaum and Joel Steinberg and the little boy who was returned to his birth mother after Lisa died. The boy, Mitchell, was renamed Travis and it looks like he grew up without problems - he was an athlete and honor student and was off to college when Joel Steinberg was released from prison in 2004. Joel still owes Lisa's birth mother $15 million in a wrongful death settlement. Hedda worked at a battered woman's shelter and released a book in 2005.

Ed Gein, the real life Norman Bates, who inspired the movie "Psycho"

R126

Steinberg's already out?

He should have gotten life.

R125 that was a bad one. I remember seeing the footage of the poor mother at her bank, she looked so terrified. One of the two had brought her there while the other held the family at home.

If there is any justice in the world, Komisarjevsky is being violently gang raped as we speak. Death would be too good for that evil fucker.

HBO did a documentary about the case.

R7 Yeah apparently some of the crazy stories about Elizabeth Bahtory were invented:

Erzsébet never bathed in the blood of her victims (learn how the legend began).

Erzsébet clearly did not kill over 600 people.

sorry, this is the correct link:

[R130] BUT she did torture her serving girls right??

R114 .... you are referring to Valerie Percy, I believe.

Dorothy Stratten.

Yes, you're right r93. But it's OK because Richard Ramirez was/is just as frightening if not more so. The original night stalker stuck to a pattern or victim type( at least based on what we know) while Ramirez did not so anybody could have fallen victim to Ramirez. I'm just glad I wasn't around back then and old enough to realize what was going on.

The DC Sniper murders were unnerving because they were so random and no one had a clue who or what was going on.

The one where the women were raped and murdered.

The one where the women disappeared and were never found

The one where the murdurer wore a bag over his head and shot people.

The one where the murderer dumped the bodies in the swamp/woods/water/basement/side of the highway.

The one where the murderer left cryptic messages

The one in the house of horrors

The one where the family was killed

The one where the child/children were killed

The one where the girl was kidnapped

All the ones that were never solved.

I revisit them again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again

Dahmer. I saw him at a bar in Chicago a few months before he was arrested. I wanted to talk to him, but a black guy was talking him up, and I ended up hooking up with somebody else that night.

The awful murder of Tina Watson by her psycho husband, who deliberately drowned her while scuba diving on their honeymoon, haunts me. Even worse, the fucker got away with it!

I won't link to the famous picture of her lying dead on the sea floor, and I don't recommend googling it, either. [And I'm regularly check out gruesome pics on rotten.com and ogrish.com, so that tells you how disturbing her picture is!]

There is nothing gruesome about that Tine Watson photo. The dead bodies on Mt Everest are a hell of a lot more gruesome than that. And it's not even in the same universe as Porsche Girl.

"He was creepy looking and these women must be batshit crazy like the mad woman who married him. Are fraus really that easily charmed?"

Here's a hint.....silly internet comments don't represent what the average person (or "frau" believes)

R140

Who was Porshe Girl?

R137 lol

None

r105, I live in DC. That's freaking me out a little.

For me it was the murder of the local crime boss in Philadelphia - Angelo Bruno.

I was five at the time. And I remember when it happened there was either a story on the news - or a breaking news bulletin when it happened. He was killed in his car by a shotgun blast to the back of the head. I remember the news actually showing him dead and slumped over in his car. I remember being really freaked out by it - of course I was five. It didn't help that it was right in our neighborhood too. To this day that image is still stuck in my brain.

The grim sleeper who killed all those women for over 2 decades in LA and no one cares because his victims were poor black women. HBO did a good documentary on it

The BTK killer. bind torture kill. i have random nightmares about this guy.

Just posted this comment on a new Bundy thread and saw this thread. Is the DLer whose parents on their first date stumbled upon on of Bundy's victims in the middle of a dark road still around? Or does anyone rember the story? Was it even Bundy? It made me sick to my stomach, the thought of the poor victim and the killer undoubtedly just feet away watxhing and hoping not to be caught.

You have to ask that when all you elderly get your mussies moist starting a crime thread every week?!

R142 - She's pretty unrecognizable.

Seriously is Porsche girl some kind of a joke?

Porsche girl is no joke. That clip broke the Internet when it went viral. The parents went on a talk show crusade to get those in the CHP who released it fired and prosecuted

R152 - No. If you're afraid to look it up, don't. It's really horrific.

Porsche Girl wrecked her car and her face/head was pulverized. I saw the photo once about 10 years ago and it was fucked up... I wouldn't recommend doing a search.

I think the Blood Countess story was a hatchet job on a strong, wealthy, educated woman. She was a very skilled nurse and herbalist and, if I recall, was very kind to the peasants. The King, or Emperor or whatever their equivalent was, owed her a lot of money and she was calling in debts. She pissed off powerful men. The victors write history.

Wasn't the blood countess the original episode of Deadly Women?

Thanks for the warnings, friends. You never know when something is sarcastic or not on the DL. I'll burn the phrase onto my mental no-no list.

The murders where I knew the victims but no one was ever arrested.

And the Trayvon Martin murder.

The Laurie Dann case was creepy. She was seriously mentally ill, tried to make kids drink poisoned juice boxes, then brought a gun to a school and shot some children, killing one boy. She had been living in a closet, the floor covered with bird seed.

The Luke Magnotta murder of Lin Jun because I saw it. I was watching a video right after this happened, and I thought I was watching a cheaply made movie. After a little while, I thought, "Is this real? This has to be real." I googled it later and sure enough I had watched Magnotta killing Jun. I guess he uploaded the video right after he murdered the poor man.

It was one of those horrific things you wish you could un-see but you can't. I was traumatized for quite a while afterwards.

Did anyone else see that? It was called 1 Lunatic, 1 Icepick. Don't google it or watch it, please. Surely you can't still watch that can you?

I thought I might enjoy this thread since I enjoy true crime stories and have read some good books about them. But does anyone else feel just a little creeped out by the people on here who admit to watching grisly videos about actual crimes or gruesome crime scenes? I just don't get the fascination with looking at photos or videos of things that are gruesome and brutal and bloody. I t think it's rather sick, actually.

Here's a follow up to the woman who killed her kids and put them in a freezer. She pleads guilty and doesn't care that she gets life in prison. She said she had no remorse.

R162: different people process information in different ways based on the type of the multiple intelligences they are strong in naturally. A visual person looking at the video of Porsche girl or the Canadian cannibal are no more/less disturbed than a linguistic person hungrily reading helter skelter cover to cover or a musical person playing that smiths song about the killings in the moors on repeat

R140, I didn't say the pic was gruesome, I said it was disturbing.

And it is.

"Porsche Girl" Nicole Catsouras' pics, however, are fascinating and actually rather amusing, considering what a dangerous spoiled cunt she was. I'm *glad* she's dead.

R162, R161 here. I didn't think I was watching an actual crime being committed. Somehow I accidentally ran on to the video. No I don't like watching videos like that and I don't think anyone else on here said they did either, unless I missed a post, which is entirely possible.

EEK! 🔚 🔜

[quote]I think the other one who still really gets me is the Scott and Lacy Petersen case. I'd love to know what really happened how she died. What set him off, or at least when he decided to go through with it. Did they have an argument? Did he club her in her sleep?

I remember watching 20/20 or Dateline or some such show, and one of Lacey's family members mentioned that Scott drained and cleaned their [Scott & Lacey's] swimming pool nearly half a dozen times in the first few weeks after her disappearance [there were police helicopters circling all over the place looking for Lacey].

re: Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka:

Yes, Paul Bernardo was clearly a sick fuck; it's pretty much certain that he was the Scarborough Rapist.

But it's interesting that girls didn't start dying until Paul hooked up with Karla. Clearly, she was the mastermind behind the kidnapping and killing of Leslie Mahaffy and Kristin French, not to mention her own little sister Tammy.

If you really really really wanna see the gruesome pics of Nicole Catsouras, clickity over heah:

Yes, r169., meanwhile she's out and he's still incarcerated.

Imagine the pandemonium when it was leaked she'd be in a halfway house in NDG very close to Westmount in Montreal. Only it wasn't an actual halfway house, it was a federally funded transitional house for the mentally ill. I think they ended up sending her out to the suburbs instead.

r169 in fairness, if the TPS would've taken the rape cases seriously Holmolka would have been jailed with the same sentence as him. (There's no death penalty in Canada.) They had a witness and DNA against Bernardo.

That meant the LEOs would not have needed her testimony to convict on the murder charges. Thus no plea deal, thus she is tried for Tammy, Lesley and Kristin's deaths and gets the same amount of time. She could also be declared a dangerous offender, depending on what charges they settled on for her. She was also implicated in a separate rape case, IIRC.

Cabin 28 does it for me. No suspects, no leads, a complete mystery start to finish.

R76 I thought the theory with Scott Peterson was that he's a sociopath, so when he decided he preferred his mistress rather than divorcing Lacy and splitting their assets he chose to kill her instead. The plan apparently was he would get to keep the house and money for himself, never have tell his mistress that he wasn't separated and continue to appear the golden boy he was perceived to be by his family.

There was an interview with Scott. (I can't remember who interviewed him) where he was protesting his innocence and saying he loved Lacy. The interviewer asked what he loved about her. He paused for a bit, looked at her smiling photo sitting in a frame next to him and finally, as if the photo had given him an idea, he answered that he loved her smile. His wife was gone, apparently he was missing her terribly and he couldnt think of a single thing he missed about her. It made it seem that her murder was premeditated to me. As though he'd secretly hated her for so long that a question as basic as what he loved about her, totally stumped him.

The horrifying murder of Jun Lin by Luka Magnotta.

The murder of Nicholas Markowitz bothers me because there was so much opportunity for people to save him and because he didn't realize the danger he was in.

The Black Dahlia case is one of the most eerie for me because it seemed so random and the killer was never found. No explaination too as to why she was cut into three pieces like that and drained of blood. The pictures from the crime scene are stomach churning. No telling what this woman went through before death.

The Richard Speck murders in Chicago and how terrified the nurses must have been. And the nurse who hid under the bed and survived-how traumatized she must have been thinking he was going to kill her too.

The Deltona Massacre freaks the hell out of me. Horrific.

I had never heard of the Deltona massacre. They copied it after the Wonderland Murders which were also horrific.

The murder of Shanda Sharer mentioned earlier.

What about the club kid murder in NYC where they chopped him up and put him in a box? Isn't that guy out of jail now?

That Chicago Richard Speck rampage was chilling. All he had was a knife and managed to kill eight people, literally slaughter them. And yes, the nurse who hid. Seeing all that blood, and all her dead housemates. I wonder what her life was like since then. To survive and try to make a life for yourself. I don't know if I could.

Witchita Massacre is also horrific and sad.

R176 that was an awful one. I watched the movie Alpha Dog, which is based off the murder, and going into it I knew what was going to happen, that he was killed, but I was still hoping someone would tell the kid to run and that he'd be alright. He thought he was one of the cool kids, but they killed him. Sad.

R182 that one should have made countless national headlines, it should have been a huge story. Instead there was barely a peep out of the mainstream media because it was a black on white crime, not white on black. They wanted to pretend it had never happened, they bent over fucking backwards trying to downplay the racial angle when if it had been the opposite (white on black)... well, you know.

Same with the Knoxville Horror.

I just saw another special on the McStays that was made before the arrests. Brother looks creepy and suspicious although they have the McStays business partner in custody. Everyone seemed to hate Summer McStay and she was found to be a habitual liar, changing names and birthdates on a whim. There was even a book out that suggested she was responsible. Call it the Yoko factor. There was even some chick from Mexico who insisted that she saw this family at the WalMart there. They showed a picture and she said "Yes! That's them!" Oh brother. What I found most intriguing is that they said his home fountain business was going so incredibly. They were talking about huge, huge amounts of money. That was the biggest red flag in the entire discussion.

Valerie Percy

The Laci Peterson murder. I couldn't believe that monster could kill his own pregnant wife. I always assumed she was beaten to death. A bunch of her ribs were broken. Autopsy determined that it was not a result from being in the bay, or from being chopped up.

And don't look at that Porche Girl picture.

I remember receiving it in an email years ago, listed by her real name. I had just learned how to use a computer. So I see that I received an email from an aquaintance who lived in a different state. She sent me a memorial page link. People were writing nice things to the family. It had normal pictures of her and her family at first, then some prick added her car accident photos. I don't know why she sent me that garbage. I closed my email account, and never spoke to that cow again. She thought the whole thing was funny. I'm an asshole, but not THAT kind of an asshole.

The photos of the Amber Lynn Coplin murder last November. For years I've poked around on 4Chan here and there when I've been bored, and I happened to be on the day the murderer killed Coplin and posted photos of her just-murdered body on /b/, saying he knew her 13-year-old kid would find her in a few minutes. And he did.

The pics looked real but the murderer was posting about how strangling someone looks so much easier in the movies, and I think we all thought he was lying. It just sounded like a lie at first, especially when he said he had a BB gun he would threaten the cops with.

I'll never get the image of that body out of my mind. Horrifying.

All the people I've given the gift to.

The disgusting murders committed by Rod Ferrell and his so-called "vampire clan" in Florida. He is from a messed up family in Murray, Ky. I think his mother was into vampire crap too.

Hillbillies are always doing fucked up shit.

The one that was a home invasion

The one where the guy took pictures

The one where the body was never found

Chilling

The Elisa Lam case bothers me. Girl looks so sweet and was found in the water tank on the hotel roof of the Cecil Hotel, located in the skid row area of Los Angeles. She was traveling alone. A video shows her last moments on an elevator where she is clearly fearing someone is following her when the elevator doors will not shut. It has been suggested a hotel employee with a key was able to accomplish that. The body was found two weeks after her dying in the tank. The top was closed over, which she couldn't have done and why would a young girl climb into a water tank in February anyway? Also, all her clothes were off but in the bottom of the tank, including her sandals. It is supposed by some she took them off to try to lighten herself in order to get out but she had to be unable to remove the metal lid.

That's Michael Ali-g and he is out of jail, R181.

He's active on Twitter and also has a YouTube channel The Peeew.

He served his time so I guess it's fine, although obviously it's weird to see him so happily embracing social media

To Reply 124 "Are there any women on here that can explain what the erotic allure is of mad killers? what do you find attractive about them? Are all fraus a bit masochistic?" Don't forget Truman Capote and his big crush on In Cold Blood murderer of the Clutter family, Perry Smith.

To Reply 126, "That address in NYC where Nussbaum and Steinberg lived is an interesting place. 14 West 10th Street. It is known as the House of Death.

The "Dnepropetrovsk Maniacs"--three soulless Ukrainian teens who went on a thrill kill spree, randomly attacking women (one even was pregnant), children, and (non-able-bodied) men with sledgehammers--often in broad daylight. They would then attend the victims' funerals, surreptitiously taking selfies in front of the coffins while flipping off the camera. They filmed one murder and posted it onto the internet; it went viral under the title "3 Guys, 1 Hammer". Before you go googling that video, let me give you a preview: the poor victim was beaten with a sledgehammer an his face and torso mutilated with a screwdriver--and he remained conscious throughout. I've only heard the audio of this; the sound of that poor guy struggling to breath was enough to give me nightmares.

These guys may very well be the most evil murderers I've ever heard of. The Ukraine won't give out information about their lives in prison, nor will they allow them to give interviews. I can only hope this is due to the fact that the killers are being mercilessly tortured on a daily basis.

If you're interested in the Bernardo/Homolka story you really need to watch the Fifth Estate story that was posted in a link above. It's been a long time since I've thought someone could be proud of their journalism degree. The woman who did that story can be proud of hers. She fucking holds people's feet to the fire and asks spot on, painful questions to the fucking cops and prosecutors about Karla getting away with murder.

Plus she wasn't afraid of pregnant pauses. When those being question had no way out or tried to squirm she sat there long enough to let you see, in silence, who these fuck ups were. She's a real fucking reporter. Especially when they give a blah blah blah answer. She doesn't let them go. She continues with "that's not what I asked you" . Real fucking reporter.

"She was traveling alone. A video shows her last moments on an elevator where she is clearly fearing someone is following her when the elevator doors will not shut. "

She was mentally ill, paranoid, and on drugs. No mystery here.

"that one should have made countless national headlines, it should have been a huge story. Instead there was barely a peep out of the mainstream media because it was a black on white crime, not white on black. They wanted to pretend it had never happened, they bent over fucking backwards trying to downplay the racial angle when if it had been the opposite (white on black)... well, you know.

Gotta love the white supremacists here. MOST murders do not generate national headlines. Thousands of people are murdered every year, and 99% of those do not make national headlines. Plenty of white on black murders do not make national headlines, either. I don't get the arguments that some murders "deserve" more headlines, as if some victims matter more than others.

R199: some murders do deserve headlines more than others. That has nothing to do with race or what the victim deserves. In fact, I would argue that every victim deserves to be spared the humiliating dehumanization of being turned into a serial true crime story for entertainment purposes.

The murders that deserve headlines are the ones where there is an ongoing danger and public awareness is a must. This would be scenarios such as active serial killers and mass murderers on the loose such as Ramirez, bundy, the DC sniper and cunanan.

It's the stories such as laci Peterson that deserve to be kept out of repetitive headlines

Caylee Anthony's mother got away with murder, it bothers me.

[quote]MOST murders do not generate national headlines. Thousands of people are murdered every year, and 99% of those do not make national headlines. Plenty of white on black murders do not make national headlines, either. I don't get the arguments that some murders "deserve" more headlines, as if some victims matter more than others.

Yes, MOST murders do not generate national headlines, but MOST of the interracial murders that get endless coverage are white on black even though they aren't as common. If someone didn't know any better they'd think---judging by the media---that KKK members are hiding behind every bush, just waiting to pounce. It's ridiculous.

Awful carjacking murder of a poor woman in the wrong place at the wrong time. Killed by a teenage boy who wanted to steal a car for his birthday present. She secretly recorded her pleading with him to spare her.

[quote] Caylee Anthony's mother got away with murder, it bothers me.

ME TOO!

THROWN AWAY LIKE TRASH!

BIG PICTURE WINDOW!

CHAMPAGNE JAMBOREE!

"Yes, MOST murders do not generate national headlines, but MOST of the interracial murders that get endless coverage are white on black even though they aren't as common."

White people are the victims!!!! Waaaaaah!!!!!! Most crimes that get big headlines are white-on-white. People like "stories" about white, middle-class people, because most people who watch Nancy Grace, and "follow" true crime stories are white

I agree that it's about time we have a national dialogue regarding black on black murders... Obama, Jesse Jackson and Rev. Al Sharpton could start it.

When I lived in NYC I read in the paper, this was 1976, NYT or the Daily News, a small paragraph buried somewhere in the back was a story of a murdered man found lying dead in the street. Found wearing only his underwear, location was the West Village. Few weeks later I read of another murder, victim found lying in the street wearing only his underwear, again the West Village. I wondered if there was a murderer of homosexuals out there, at that time S&M was on the rise, a lot of clubs out there for it in that area.

I left NY one month after this and never heard anymore on it. Anyone else remember this?

R207: was that the same time as the slasher that was the basis for the movie Cruising?

R146 - Ths one is for you!

Click it if you dare.

"I agree that it's about time we have a national dialogue regarding black on black murders... Obama, Jesse Jackson and Rev. Al Sharpton could start it."

The white supremacist queens are going crazy right now. Go away, please.

Wasn't it already determined in the Elisa Lam case that the hotel workers kept the door to the roof unlocked because they were going up there to smoke weed during working hours? I think I remember reading that. I don't think it's a stretch that one (or more) of them may have noticed the cover off and put it back on. They wouldn't admit to it because they weren't supposed to be there.

In any case, she was suffering from a debilitating mental illness. The coroner's report listed bipolar disorder as a contributing factor, and a quick peek at her blog shows that she had been in rough shape. Hallucinations are common in bipolar I.

[quote]On one hand this helps me deal with the sadness but on the other hand I basically become a potato. On the outside I look like a catatonic hobo on my bed in front of a glowing screen (no sleep schedule whatsoever but this appears to be a norm for the jobless and the people on the internet) and not eating/sleeping/functioning like any "normal" person. And I shout at anyone saying "Maybe.... you should try getting off the computer?" Leave me alone, I'm happy, this makes me feel better, I need this, this is the one thing that makes me sane, I can't deal with people, just leave me alone, this is something I can actually do, nobody is judging me, I feel less lonely because all these people think like me.

[quote]I'm very disappointed in myself for breaking down during the term forcing me to withdraw from courses. I've been at university for 3 years and I've only managed to complete three courses. That means I've been a first year for three years and this September it will be for the fourth year because I require 30 credits in order for second year status.

Reply 208. I never saw the movie Cruising, have heard of it, but in reading this on Wikipedia..."Cruising is a 1980 psychological thriller film written and directed by William Friedkin and starring Al Pacino. The film is loosely based on the novel of the same name, by The New York Times reporter Gerald Walker, about a serial killer targeting gay men, in particular those associated with the leather scene"...I kid you not I now have goosebumps.

I really wonder, at the time it seemed not to get any notice but I hoped the investigators were on it.

Whoa.

" If I had a son, he would look like murderer Michael LaSane, the brave young man who murdered a young mother because he wanted to steal her car as a birthday gift to himself."

-President Barack Husein Obama

R193 as r198 and r211 say there was no mystery with Eliza Lam. She only thought she was being followed. There was no one there. She climbed into the water tower either because she thought someone was after her or to deliberately kill herself. People who are experiencing psychotic episodes , and she clearly was psychotic from her behaviour, are often a huge danger to themselves.

Drink Drano, r213.

I grew up near a house where a horrible murder had been committed years before I was even born. Every time I passed it, it gave me the creeps. My mom was in high school with one of the sons of the victim; the boy had subsequently suffered a breakdown after his mother's murder. I watched as the house became more of an eyesore over the years until it was finally demolished a couple of years ago. No one wanted to buy it because of what had occurred there so it was a rental for years & years.

From R207: I did not know that was what that movie was about, (Cruising). At the time NY was very dangerous and wild. However the articles in the back were so small I had the impression I was the only one noticing them and even putting this together. Almost like they were just whispered. Wonder if the NYT writer got the idea from those articles, or even wrote them. The story I think did mention they were beaten, had cigarette burns and I thought said they were strangled with their own underwear.

I wonder if they ever caught the murderer.

Just f&f and ignore the flamebait trolls and let the webmaster deal with it. I don't want this topic to turn into an endless stream of flaming and trolling.

Casey Anthony adopted a little girl...will she murder her?

r105, why throw something out there like that without more details. What is the victim type? I live in DC, along with a lot of my love ones.

R207 .... there are 'encyclopedias' on serial killers and you wouldn't believe the number that are described with a header of 'serial killer, unknown'.

I know there were several with gay victims and I believe you are describing one of them.

R215

Calm yourself dear

The 1956 murder was probably a situation that happened over and over again...any black man that happened to be in the neighborhood of a murder victim was automatically arrested. That's the way in happened in the 30's, 40's, and 50's.

Yep, Cayce Anthony. That one infuriates me more than anything. I still hate her.

This one bother's me...

"On September 12, 2006 Anthony Joseph D’Urso, 2, lived at 1213 E. Patapsco Ave. Destiny D’Urso, the victim’s mother, left for work leaving her son in the care of Paul Highfield. The child was healthy when she left. When she returned, the child was vomiting uncontrollably, and D’Urso noticed numerous knuckle-sized bruises on the child’s abdomen. The child continued vomiting, and was put to bed by D’Urso. The child died during the night. D’Urso never sought medical attention for the child. The Medical Examiner determined that the child died of blunt force trauma."

The mom who was pushing her dead kid in a swing for 2 days in May. Autopsy results show 3 year old died of hypothermia and dehydration. Mom suffers from depression and bipolar disorder. What kills me is that her ex was fighting her for custody, not too long before she ended up killing him. The judge said she was not a danger, and he was basically pushed to share custody. That agreement was made May 11th. 11 days later, the boy would end up dead in her care.

STFU, R205, you stupid stunned cunt.

Keep waving that confederate flag r227

Surely Casey Anthony didn't adopt a child! She shouldn't be allowed near little kids, at least by herself, R219.

Unless it's a recent development, Casey Anthony did not adopt a child. That was a hoax.

Susan Smith murdering her sons.

The Elisa Lam case is creepy for several reasons.

One, the video of her in the elevator. The version released was slowed down and had a few missing frames here and there. It even seems as if some frames are played backwards, making her hand gestures seem creepy. This is the video sped-up. She's clearly having a discussion with someone, but it's impossible to now if it was with a real person or if she hallucinating.

Two, her story matches the story of the movie "Dark Waters" that came out in 2002 and a remake in 2005. The story is of a mother and daughter named Cecilia, still wounded from a bitter custody dispute, hole up in a run-down apartment building. There they are targeted by the ghost of former resident. It turns out there's a body of a young girl in the water tank. There is a scene in the movie with a malfunctioning haunted elevator.

Three, the hotel she was staying at was the Cecil Hotel. Two serial killers had stayed at this hotel in the past - Richard Ramirez (the "Night Stalker") in 1985 and Jack Unterweger in 1991. There have been several suicides in the hotel and three murders.

A woman back in 1998-99 time met a guy online who actually turned out to be unemployed and crazy. He strangled her with a wire and then buried her in concrete. It's because of that, I have never met a person online and will never do social media.

...that and your enormous gunt, R233.

Most believe that she was bumped off by either ex- boyfriend Andrew Prine or creepy downstairs neighbor David Lange (brother of Hope) but it's never been proven who actually murdered Karyn Kupcinet in Hollywood back in 1963.

image below is of Karyn with Gene Kelly

Pretty Jenny Maxwell who had a minor film career before marrying & retiring was murdered along with her husband outside of their Beverly Hills home over 30 years ago. The killer was never caught. Only 39 at the time of her murder, Jenny was well liked and had many friends; her husband however (allegedly) had some bad connections and it was believed that had to do with their double murder.

Barbara Colby was another. Back in the summer of 1975, Barbara and a friend were leaving an actors workshop just outside LA when a van pulled up and both were murdered. The killer(s) never caught. It was believed to have been a gang initiation.

Barbara had played a likeable hooker on an episode of THE MARY TYLER MOORE SHOW and was so well received that she ended up getting a regular part on PHYLLIS. Her co-stars were devastated by the loss. Cloris Leachman had wanted to dedicate the last show that Barbara had appeared in to her late friend but executive Mary Tyler Moore nixed it saying that "she wasn't going to let the daily horrors around us interfere with her shows." Leachman fumed.

Incidentally, Colby had once been the daughter in law of Ethel Merman who went on record saying that former her daughter in law's murder was one of the worst tragedies of her life. The two had remained friends after Barbara had divorced the Merm' son.

That's sad story and fuck Mary. Are they sure it was gang related? I find that kind of hard to believe. I hope the murderers were caught.

No they were never caught

I'm not like all of you. I can't remember the names of cases.

A case that has always bothered me wasn't a murder.

It was about a little boy who was kidnapped by a pedophile. The little boy was maybe 7 years old.

The kicker was the man had been holding another child as a sexual prisoner for about 10 years. The boy was now too old for his tastes so he kidnapped the second boy.

The older boy was instrumental in bringing about the rescue of the 7 year old. Sadly he'd already been abused when rescued.

I've always wondered what happened to the older boy. His eyes and face were so haunted. 10 years of captivity, non-stop abuse and mental anguish is too much to overcome without massive therapy.

That was Steven Staynor r240. Steven eventually got married but died at age 24 in a motor bike accident. Timothy White is the boy he rescued, he died in 2010 of a brain aneurysm. He was 35.

I know my first name is Steven.

R241

Are you sure we're discussing the same case.

It happened approx.10 years ago which would make the second boy only 17-18 years now.

Shawn Hornbeck?

Yes, I believe there was another case, more recently

I think he meant the case is Missouri. The kids name was Sean

The older kid is Benjamin Ownby.

I didn't know the boy this happened to but my sisters did since they'd gone to school with him. He was a 10 or 11 yr old boy who delivered newspapers named Billy Artez. This cretin named Arthur Goode kidnapped him and well, you can figure it out. Anyway at one point the two were somewhere further south of Baltimore and Arthur kidnapped another boy who he later molested then murdered in front of the Artez kid. Billy Artez managed to live by using a combination of his smarts & pure luck. Goode was eventually caught, extradited, tried & executed.

Artez' father was a doctor down at Johns Hopkins. Once they got their boy back, they moved somewhere else so that the boy wouldn't have to grow up being pointed out etc.... This was back around 1976. Billy Artez, I am told lives in northern Maryland. Since my sisters were in the same class, that would mean that he'll be 50 this year.

I never understood John Waters' fascination with killers. I mention that because I recall that he interviewed the Goode creep after he was caught.

It's not officially categorized as "murder" but little Kyron Horman is almost certainly dead, won't ever be found and no one will ever be prosecuted.

Check out Susan Smith now!

The stomping death of gay sailor Allen Schindler by another sailor haunted me in the early 90s and when the movie Any Mother's Son was on TV. "The medical examiner compared Schindler's injuries to those sustained by a victim of a fatal horse trampling saying they were worse 'than the damage to a person who’d been stomped by a horse; they were similar to what might be sustained in a high-speed car crash or a low-speed aircraft accident.'"

Wayne Williams, Atlanta child killings

>>>Junko Furuta, who died after being horrifically tortured for 44 days by a group of teenage boy eventually she begged them to kill her.

I just read about this and wish I fucking hadn't. It's horrific. Beyond horror.

The Cassie Jo Stoddart murder in Idaho haunts me. That was awful especially as the boys who murdered her were classmates who were at the house just before she was killed.

I'd still like to know who murdered these 3 kids years ago. Initially 3 teen boys were charged and it was claimed that the children were murdered for some satanic ritual. Later there was speculation that the stepfather of the one little boy was the real culprit.

R254: the documentaries on the subject are pretty compelling when it comes to laying out the case against terry Hobbs, the step father you mentioned

It's all so sick. Murder is bad enough but children.

Even Jason Voorhees and Michael Myers leave small children alone !

Murders that haunt me and my family members personally include 1.) A great great great grandmother's. 2.) My mom's sister's. 3.) My uncle by marriage's. My grandmother was born Choctaw in about 1830. As a child she marched on the Trail of Tears to Oklahoma. In her 60s (in the 1890s) she was murdered by the government for being Choctaw. Some of her relatives fled and others stayed and signed the Dawe's Roll. So some of my relatives today are Choctaw by law and others like myself are not allowed to be Choctaw by law and cannot have what is ours. My mom's sister was 15 in 1958 when she was killed by her boyfriend who had just graduated high school. He killed her after taking her by force in his car. He killed her with his car and a hit on the head and held her until she died. The good old boy system never arrested him. He lived a full life living how he wanted. I was born in 1969 but I knew my aunt because my grandmother talked about her a lot. My uncle who was married to my aunt was mayor of a town. He took two of his five children with him to sign papers to buy land. The man who killed him told him to come around the house into the back door. When my uncle did that he was shot in the heart before entering. The killers daughter could be heard laughing. He stumbled to his car and tried to drive away with his 9 year old son and 7 year old daughter but died at the wheel. My cousins ran down the country road until they found a house in which to get help. It was 1976 and I was 7 years old. I grew up with many of my cousins thinking we were going to be murdered. It was hard to sleep at night. The man served little time in jail. That is one reason we were so scared. We were also scared because my uncle and family members in the small town where we lived had many threats against us to scare us. Strange men would come around the house at night. Some would peek through the windows at night. This was all because of the politics.

Mary Lou Arruda - tied to a tree in the Freetown Forest and left to die.

Jeez, now (in 2015) , Susan Smith's two boys would be around the same age as she was when she killed them.

Actress Susan Cabot bludgeoned by her dwarf son, Timothy ........ all bizarre with her being the star of The Wasp Woman, him using strange medicines to try to cure his dwarfism and Susan descending into a 'Norma Desmond like' existence.

I didn't recognize Susan Smith in her most recent pictures. I heard about the West Memphis Three not too long before they were released, in the media, when they were talking about Johnny Depp, Natalie Maines and some other celebs believing the boys were wrongfully convicted. I can't stand for people who are probably innocent to be in prison - they need to be convicted beyond a reasonable doubt, and after reading The Devil's Knot and watching a couple of documentaries on the case, I felt there was a reasonable doubt for sure, and that these boys were probably innocent. I think they were picked out because of the way they dressed, the music they listened to, and because they seemed "different" from others in that area (West Memphis). Jessie's "confession" didn't help anything either.

I don't guess they will ever know who really murdered those little boys, although there are a couple of suspicious family members that I wonder about.

Sorry if someone already put this link up.

Vincent Chin. In the midst of the anti-Japan hysteria over car imports, he went to a strip club and was murdered by some morons who thought he was Japanese. The judge gave the killers the lightest sentence possible and it was later revealed that he was a POW of the Japanese during WWII.

I know my name is Lucy

This one...murder of a Japanese boy in Baton Rouge, by a chicken shit homeowner with a gun.

As a teenager, my mother lived next door to a family with a "disturbed" teenager daughter, Pearl, and a younger son. One night, in 1947 or 48, my mother was listening to the radio on a hot summer night. The song Moonlight Serenade was playing when she heard the strangest, most unearthly howl. It came from the alley between the two houses. My mother ran downstairs to see what was happening.

There she saw my grandmother comforting the woman from next door, who seemed completely frantic and incoherent. She has clearly been the one who howled. My grandmother, being my grandmother, told my mother, a 16 year old girl, to go next door to see what the matter was. Being my mother, my mother obeyed.

This all happened pretty quickly, because as my mother crept up the stairs of the house next door, through the open front door she heard Moonlight Serenade--the radio was tuned to the same station my mom has been listening to. She pushed the door open and quietly said "hello?" a few times.

The song played on and mom ventured deeper into the house.

She came into the living room and turned to look at the couch. There the younger boy lay, his head bashed in, his glistening brains visible, an eye staring up, out of its socket. My mother recoiled and put her hand up to her mouth, but didn't scream, because at that moment she was overwhelmed by the sensation of being watched. Directly behind her was a closet, and as she turned to head for the door she saw that the closet door was slightly ajar. She moved toward the open door very, very slowly, still feeling eyes on her, until she got within about ten feet of the front door -- overwhelmed with fear she ran as fast as she could and got out, scrambling down the stairs and back into her house.

It turns out the parents next door has left Pearl in charge of her brother, despite the fact that she'd just been discharged from one of her stays in the mental ward. The father has dropped his wife off in front of the house and drove off to do something, we were never told what, so she was left to make the discovery on her own.

My grandmother called the police and they came to the house, where they quickly found Pearl grasping a bloody claw hammer -- in the living room closet.

We were told this story many times as kids but I was never sure it was true until I found a newspaper article about it on google news about five years ago. My father, bastard that he was, told us little kids that Pearl had escaped from the insane asylum and people sometimes heard her voice on my street, very late at night.

R264 granny was definitely no helicopter mom

Wow, cool story R264!

As for the Keddie Murders ("Cabin 28"), there is a very loooooong documentary on YouTube that pretty much solves the mystery, with a few details not quite worked out.

Peter Sutcliffe, "The Yorkshire Ripper". I remember seeing a documentary about his crimes years ago, and they interviewed a woman who worked at the same trucking firm where he was employed. She had asked him to give her a lift home one night at the time of his activities because she was afraid of the possibility of encountering the Ripper...

He is believed to have been connected to pedo Jimmy Savile as well.

Another mystery is the disappearance of Gloria Bielby in February 1979. This occurred during a hiatus in Sutcliffe's activities, and also happened in the north of England. There has been speculation that she was another of his victims, though this theory is not conclusive.

R264 here with an unrelated question -- I just went to the google news site and they seem to have removed the old newspaper archive where I found confirmation of my mother's story. Did they just delete it or move that searchable archive to a different location?

Never mind -- I found it. I now see I misremembered two details. First, it was the middle daughter who came home and shrieked, not the mother. Second, Pearl was not found right away. It took about twelve hours to find her. Still, it's entirely possible she was in the closet when my mother went into the house (and Albie's corpse was in the dining room, not the living room).

"Sister, 18, Sought in N.J. Boys Murder"

Very interesting R269. I looked for a conviction and sentence, but couldn't find one. I wonder what happened to Pearl.

R270 - look in the hall closet.

Paul Bernardo has applied for day parole.

The Canadians will probably give it to him.

It's amazing but the worst serial killer in history, who lived in a South American country (Colombia? Peru?) was only sentenced to 18 years I think, then they let him go.

Found an article that Pearl was sentenced to life but was up for parole in 1963, when she was 34. I wonder if she got it.

I think you're talking about Pedro Lopez the monster of the Andes They released him and nobody knows where he went

^^^ @ R273

R274, thanks.

I still can't believe your Grandmother sent your Mom next door alone? What in the world was she thinking?

Guards murdered this kid, then the jury let them off.

"Martin Lee Anderson (c. January 15, 1991 – January 6, 2006) was a 14-year-old from Florida who died while incarcerated at a boot camp-style youth detention center, the Bay County Boot Camp,[1] located in Panama City, Florida and operated by the Bay County Sheriff's Office.[2] Anderson collapsed while performing required physical training at the camp. While running track, he stopped and complained of fatigue. The guards coerced him to continue his run, but then he collapsed and died. A 30-minute portion of the surveillance video depicting the coercion was made public.[3]

The teenager's death resulted in accusations of racially motivated murder, in part in response to an official videotape that showed the guards using physical coercion. The Florida legislature voted to close the state's five juvenile boot camps."

In five years Bernardo will get out. Or at least have some kind of day privileges. It's Canada. They operate their criminal system under "this doesn't happen here" blinders.

No he won't r280. He has dangerous offender status, which supercedes regular provisions of the criminal code.

If it wasn't possible then he wouldn't have been able to apply for it.

Every seven years, in Canada, the dangerous offender status must be reviewed.

Oh my God, this poor Japanese girl. I just hate humanity sometimes. The level of cruelty and deprivation is unimaginable.

r283, do you honestly think they'll rescind it?

He will not be getting out. The post was written by a salty American, possibly a freeper.

They'll rescind it the second time he comes up for review and give him some kind of day parole. It's Canada. The crown prosecutors gives zero fucks about what the public thinks.

[quote]The crown prosecutors gives zero fucks about what the public thinks.

If those in charge could let that psycho Vincent Li out on day passes, then those in charge could also let Bernardo out.

R278, my grandmother was an imperious, bossy Irish-American woman who pretty much used my mother like a pack mule. My uncle was the golden child, as the only boy (especially since he was the only male in the house -- my grandfather had died when my mother was two years old). My mother had to shovel the coal in the basement.

From what my mother told us, no one really had any idea what was going on in 278 and no one would have dreamt that it was a bloody, savage murder. My grandmother was very impatient and wanted my mother to get over there right away and get to the bottom of it. That's just the way she was.

When the police came my grandmother told my mother to shut up about having gone into the house because she was afraid they'd take my mother down to the precinct to question her -- and possibly molest her! So my mother kept her mouth shut.

Interesting updates about Pearl -- we were told she was in an asylum. She was eligible for parole the year my mother had me. My mother died thirteen years ago. I wonder if Pearl is still alive?

There's a Pearl Silverman who was born "about 1930" and died in 1998 in East Orange. The parents are Molly and David. Do you know if they had lived in Irvington previously?

Oh my god that's her!

R289, was she still in prison?

Same name, same date of death, different location. This one is probably more accurate as the other one didn't have an actual date of birth. In any case, this is the only Pearl from NJ who was born in that time frame with parents' names that match those in the article. There's no address attached to her death, so I don't know about prison. Is there a women's prison in Newark or East Orange? I didn't find marriage or birth records, so that's a good thing.

Born: Jun 23, 1929

Deceased: Jan 27, 1998

Location: Newark, NJ

I don't know about Irvington but I was told they had moved into the neighborhood -- because apparently there had been talk about Jews moving in (they were the first Jews on the block iirc). There may have been some bias, but mom always said that the mother of the house and my grandmother "got along famously" and spent a fair amount of time together, because they both were good cooks.

It would have been a lot earlier than the murder. It looks like Molly and David lived in Irvington in 1930, around the time of Pearl's birth. She was 21, he was 23.

R89 I will be haunted forever. That is the most horrific and sadistic torture and rape I've ever heard of, That poor, poor girl!! They took a lot of photos when they were raping her, but I had to x out because it was too much. I can't believe those motherfucking psychos only got 8 years!! I hope a bunch of crazies seek them out and do the same to them one day. They don't deserve to live.

[quote]I didn't find marriage or birth records, so that's a good thing.

Yeah, unlike Tex Watson who was originally sentenced to death for his part in the Tate-LaBianca murders which was turned into a life sentence. He was allowed to get married and have conjugal visits resulting in four children that we, the public paid to support until each turned 18.

Tex Watson was so hot, though. I don't support his decision to take part in the murder, but I'm okay with (other people) paying for his children's upkeep.

Tex Watson hot? It looks like Jim Carey and Mike Tyson had an ass baby.

Are ass babies a thing? Oh my god I hope not.

Chills, R290. Especially when the sleuth located her birth and death dates. It was a very scary story.

West Memphis Three - Damien Echols, Jessie Misskelley, Jr and Jason Baldwin and the murder of three 8-year old boys.

The question persists: Who killed those kids?

R301

Someone upthread said they saw a documentary and the evidence pointed to the father of one of the boys.

I've seen, I think, two HBO documentaries that were made about the West Memphis murders, and in both of them it was never explained why they were arrested and what the evidence against them was. I'm sure it came up during the trials, yet that information was suspiciously absent. You can't win a trial with only saying someone is creepy.

The stepfather was a good suspect and the police should have investigated him, but neither documentations gave the complete picture about the three teenagers and why the evidence against them, whatever it was, was wrong.

I saw another unemotional documentary about the Memphis Three. It was enough to convince me that they probably did it. Hollywood wasn't involved or getting their panties wet about it so it wouldn't be believed by most on Datalounge.

Wasn't it a case of being railroaded because they looked different for a small Southern town? Same thing happened in TX. Some goth kid was killed by some jocks(if I recall) and the sheriff excused it to some extent by saying "well, he looked different and if you are in a small, christian town you shouldn't draw attention to yourself" or something along those lines. I think Texas Monthly did a story on it.

Interesting r304. So it's possible that they actually did do it.

R305: it's slightly more complicated than that. They got a confession out of miskelly, a mildly retarded teen, that might have been coerced. Once that happened, it opened the floodgates to all the speculation based on Echols being an artsy goth type and the third boy being a headbanger in a small town in the Bible Belt.

They even claimed one of the boys had his penis eaten as some sort of satanic ritual. The documentary by Peter Jackson showed how there are turtles indigenous to the river where the bodies were found. These turtles are most likely the source of the body militating that probably happened post mortem. They even ran tests to show how the turtles would feed off a corpse. It showed how they start with the softer appendages such as nose, ears, and of course the penis...

R288

I wonder if Pearl Silverman was the inspiration for the Hazel Dobkins character in BASIC INSTINCT.

R271 made me laugh. That Pearl story is creepy. Always wonder about those 'types' .........*did* Pearl have children ? And what are THEY like ??

"Hollywood wasn't involved or getting their panties wet about it so it wouldn't be believed by most on Datalounge."

Some people will believe anything, I guess. You accuse Hollywood types of being gullible, but you will automatically believe a documentary if it tells you what you want to hear. They had no motive.

What was the documentary called R304? I'd like to watch it.

Echols was known as a violent wackjob before the murders, the suspicion wasn't just a matter of his being peculiar or dressing differently from others.

Oops, should have put "dangerous wackjob", not necessarily "violent". Apparently he said/threatened a lot of disturbing shit without necessarily following through on it. He had a lengthy psychiatric record.

"Echols was known as a violent wackjob before the murders, the suspicion wasn't just a matter of his being peculiar or dressing differently from others."

He wasn't violent. And psychiatry is hardly an exact science, plenty of totally sane people have been diagnosed as being disturbed and vice versa. If that's all you have on him....

R3 That is fucked up. Imagine being her family and seeing that photo. That will now haunt me forever. Poor girl

R304, which documentary is that? I recently watched the Paradise Lost trilogy and would like to see yours as counterpoint.

I saw a documentary on the Paradise Lost murders a few years ago, and my memory isnt great so correct me if I'm wrong, but at one point wasn't there a part about how on the night of the murders police were called to a local Arby's or Burger King because there was a violent man in the bathroom covered in blood? And the officer who arrived at the restaurant didn't get out of the car to investigate? I thought that was a gross misjustice because that could very well have been the murderer

I thought the three teens were innocent after I saw this film.. There was no physical evidence found on any of them tying them to the scene and you'd think in such a bloody crime scene there would be some evidence. Footprints, fibers, hair, something. I think they were singled out because they were different and the townspeople needed someone to blame it on

Silverman murder house. The door that was open would have been the left one, leading into the downstairs apartment. You can see how close the houses are together and can imagine how distinctly my mother would have heard the shriek from the daughter, especially on a hot late summer night, pre-air conditioning....

Oh, creepy. They're right on top of each other. I wonder if the people who live there now know what happened. I just googled and it doesn't have to be disclosed in NJ unless the buyers ask. Renters, I imagine, are out of luck.

I always think of three murders of children that happened within a day of each other in 1995 and which happened quite close to where I grew up. The murder of Sophie Hook - what happened to her is horrifying and sickening. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Sophie_Hook

In part because of the Sophie Hook murder, which attracted more headlines, but also because the guy who did it was caught so quickly, the pretty heartbreakingly cold murders of Robbie Gee and Paul Barker were the top story for a day and then forgotten about. You can barely find anything online about them. Not sure whether link will work. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/life-for-a-loner-who-killed-school-friends-1346156.html

I'm R319 and I don't think it's letting me add links so that post didn't quite work. Anyway, two schoolboys, Paul Barker and Robbie Gee, had been murdered the day before, not far away. In part because of the Sophie Hook murder but also because they caught the guy who killed them so fast (he went to the local pub for a drink covered in blood), they were headline news for a day but now there is very little online about them.

Here you go, R319/R320. Links have to go in the bottom field.

And one more time without the extra hyphen...

Thanks, R321 / R322.

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

No organized cult of killers has ever murdered as many people as the Thuggee. In the 1830s this Indian secret society strangled upward of 30,000 native people and travelers as a sacrifice to their goddess Kali, the "Dark Mother," the Hindu Triple Goddess of creation, preservation, and destruction. The name Thuggee comes from the Sanskrit sthaga, "deceiver."

Although the Thuggee probably originated sometime in the sixteenth century, they were not uncovered by British authorities until about 1812. Great Britain was beginning to expand its territories in India, and the British administrators were becoming increasingly alarmed by reports of bands of stranglers that were roving the countryside murdering travelers. At first there appeared to be no connection between the bizarre killings, but then the bodies of 50 victims were found hidden in a series of wells in the Ganges area. Such large-scale mass murder could not have been kept secret for so long unless special pains had been taken to dispose of the victims' corpses. Examination of the bodies revealed that the murderers had broken all joints of their victims' limbs to speed up the process of decomposition and to prevent the swelling of the graves that would attract scavenging jackals and other wild animals. Such evidence convinced the authorities that they were dealing with one secret society, the Thuggee.

The murderous craft of the Thuggee was hereditary. Its practitioners were trained from earliest childhood to murder by the quick, quiet method of a strong cloth noose tightened about the neck of their victims. This weapon, the "Rumal," was worn knotted about the waist of each member of the Thuggee.

The Thuggee gloried in silent and efficient acts of murder above any other earthly accomplishment, and they traveled often in the guise of traders, pilgrims, and even as soldiers marching to or from service. On occasion, the more flamboyant would pretend to be a rajah with a large retinue of followers. Each band of Thuggee had a small unit of scouts and inveiglers who would loiter about hotels and market places gaining information regarding travelers and the weight of their coin purses. The inveiglers posed as travelers headed for the same destination as their intended victims. They would worm themselves into the confidences of their prey, pleading the old adage of safety in numbers.

The Australian who was enrolled at a college here in the States and was shot to death by a bored teenager. The senselessness of the crime hurts like Hell. This happened, I believe, two years ago in the Midwest.

R325 = Dr. Henry Jones, Jr.

The murder of Charlie Keever and Jonathan Sellers. I was scared to play outside for months after hearing about it.The murder of Chelsea King and Amber Dubois. I live near the park that Chelsea King was murdered in and would often run along the same path she ran that day.

Not R304, but I also believe the West Memphis three did it.

Last year, I watched the documentary West of Memphis. It was made by supporters and went into great detail about the case. A couple of things about the film felt off to me personally but I came out of it believing they were innocent.

However, I later started googling things about it and found a website with all the case files on it and oh my God, I seriously couldn't believe all the outright lies that were presented as facts in the film. After reading through them all, I'm now 99.9% certain that they did it.

R313 Uh, yes he is/was. About a year before the killings, he tried to GOUGE out a guy's eyes out at his school with his fingernails which he had filed into sharp points.

R326, I remember that shooting, it was so senseless. It took place in Duncan, Oklahoma and the college guy was here on scholarship.

After they were arrested, they confessed that they shot the university baseball team catcher “because they were bored.”

So how many people think the thugee weren't real, or at least not organized the way the British thought.

Damien Echols artwork on his twitter page is creepy. Also, he seems to use his "unique celebrity fame" to only benefit himself and could give a f*ck about anyone or anything else.

Let's face it, the West Memphis killings were probably committed by a pedophile who is probably still out there, looking for victims.

Even if the THREE did it, they were convicted for the wrong reasons.

I'd still like to know with absolute certainty who murdered Jon Benet Ramsey.

I don't think we'll ever know with absolute certainty, R334. It stretches plausibility to imagine that it occurred outside of the immediate family, but they're either dead or won't ever confess.

I was listening to an old Howard Stern interview with a criminal profiler who worked on the Ramsey case. He had to choose his words carefully, but he obviously had no doubt that Patsy was the murderer. Another book I read awhile back made it seem like she was the only logical choice as well.

Interview here if anyone is interested (only a snippet is about that case, though, and I don't remember where it is in the interview)

Not a crime per se, but fascinating ...

Fascinating, indeed, R337. Thanks for posting the link.

I wish I could get a new identity. It's impossible now. I wonder how many people did what the woman did before social security numbers and the Internet @R337

Valerie Percy had to have been murdered by someone in her family.

This happened to a boy in my HS 2 years older than me.

R341 Wow. That was horrible.

R337 that family should just leave it alone.. Yes, it's a mystery who she really was, but she changed her identity for a reason, let it be. Her finger prints weren't in any database, so I'm guessing she wasn't a criminal or anything.

I don't remember how long it took us to discover the grisly details. I don't think we know about the cannibalism for quite awhile. It was a suburban hs outside the small city of Pok which had a different poorer school district. there was a rumble of all things that night and the boys scattered quickly and nobody knows who or why Paul ended up in that teacher's house, he was from the other HS. There was no obvious connection.

15 years later there was a serial killer in downtown Poughkeepsie, equally horrific and just not what anyone was expecting in a town of that size.

Vincent Li should not be out unsupervised! He randomly beheaded a stranger sitting next to him. Jesus!

R341: was the murdered classmate part of the burglary ring or just at the wrong place at the wrong time? The article was vague on that part.

Webslueth is on the trail of that lady who changed her identity. They've got it narrowed down

He was an all american, handsome, very nice and clever jock.

There was no burglary ring. Many of the details are of that murder as still unknown but the basics are known - the ones the murderer admitted to.

Karyn Kupcinet choked. To death while giving head to her horse hung boyfriend.

You mean with this dick shown here ...... ?

I remember when the "Knoxville Horror" happened, and while it was indeed horrifying, it seems undeserving of that moniker (this is the first I've heard of it named thusly). When I clicked the link, I was expecting something far...grander?

I love stories like r337. It reminds me of a show my mother used to watch called "Unsolved Mysteries." I would glimpse at it now and then but for the most part I found the narrator's voice to be too frightening.

The killer known as BTK (for bind, torture, kill) who terrorized Wichita, Kansas in the '70s and '80s. He murdered almost an entire family in their home one morning in 1974 (two of the kids had already left for school, and found the bodies when they returned home).

Turns out, the evil bastard was council president of a local church. Had a wife and kids and installed security alarms for a living.

Are you serious, R351???? That story is fucking terrifying. That poor couple!!!!

R352, how old are you?

Unsolved Mysteries was the BEST. The scariest show on TV, ever. Especially when they just profiled unsolved homicides. So creepy.

26. I recently watched a few episodes online and I still find it a bit creepy. I suppose that's what they were going for given the sound of that guy's voice and the theme song.

It's obviously more than one killer but the Highway of Tears up in Canada really bothers me.

R352: you are right. The production style of unsolved mysteries was sooo creepy. Btw, wasn't the voice veteran actor Robert Stack?

R358, yes Wikipedia lists him as one of the hosts. He looks like the host I'm most familiar with so I'm sure it's him with that frightening voice. I didn't know that he was an actor and I watch a lot of old films.

This one is really sick, Nathaniel Bar-Jonah.

R360 omg, that was sick. I'm appalled by the story.

Not sure if haunt is the right word but I love the William Bradford "Brad" Bishop, Jr case. Foreign Service officer who killed his wife, mother, and three kids then just disappeared. One of his duties in the Foreign Service involved making "special" IDs.

He's probably dead now so he got away with it.

Bradford and his wife shortly before he beat his family to death with a hammer.

The dead man in Demi Moore's swimming pool. Seriously.

This is more a dissapearance than a murder, but the case of Charlie Noonan the photographer who went missing in Oklahoma in the 1930s I think. He was collecting folk myths and stories, and was told about an old woman on a farm who was very strange, almost inhuman, he went to the farm and was never seen again. there's a picture, of the old woman that is apparently the last picture he took before vanishing. However the photo is thought to be photoshopped.

Has anyone mentioned Ira Einhorn? I found that murder mystery on You Tube and watched it again, The Hunt for the Unicorn Killer. I can't believe he had her decomposing body in the house in a trunk, and no one could find her. What's worse is that the fucker almost got away with it, because even though they believed he was her murderer, they didn't arrest him! He was on the run for years.

The nurse in Australia who was kidnapped, raped and tortured for hours by a group of men. Can't remember her name.

^ Anita Cobby

Cindy James is another odd case (investigate initially as a murder)

Case has shades of Karen Kupcinet activity with Cindy James claiming stalking, attacks, house fires, etc that police ultimately ended up believing she staged herself.

Found BOUND and dead (from drugs ??) ..........with the case being closed and ruled as having been done by HER, after her ex-husband was fully investigated as a suspect.

Was another case featured on Unsolved Mysteries.

Can't think of his name, but that guy from the 1880s/1890s who was a cannibal of children. He lured a little girl to his house by pretending there was a party, murdered and ate her, then sent a graphic description to her parents. Whenever people talk about how bad things are in these "modern times"...man, some of those Victorian serial killers were HARD CORE. And so many of them got away with it.

Cindy James YouTube video

Albert Fish r370. Early 20th century.

Wow, I love the Brad Bishop story. I remember when it was featured on that show that R352's mother used to watch with the creepy voiced narrator guy, but I could've sworn they eventually caught him. Guess not!

Cindy James is another good one.

The JFK assassination.

A President is assassinated in front of the country, on camera, obviously shot from the Grassy Knoll by a group of snipers, and yet there's nothing that can be done about it.

A frightening, eye-opening experience as to how powerful the military-industrial complex & CIA are when they can get away with something like that in front of everyone.

Can anyone be more horrible than these people?

Albert Fish

HH Holmes

John Wayne Gacy

Tommy Lynn Sells

Charles Ng/Leonard Lake

David Parker Ray

David Paul Brown

Dennis Rader

Ian Brady and Myra Hindley

Jeffrey Dahmer

And the worst of the worst IMO:

Fred and Rosemary West

Westley Allan Dodd

Forgot:

Robert Ben Rhoades

Does anybody else feel guilty about finding such stories interesting? I do.. And R360 was truly shocking. RIP Zachary.

To whoever said Texx Watson is hot...ew. He looks like a cross between Dr. Spock, Jim Carrey and Tom Cruise

R359: I know Bob Stack from his funny deadpan role in Airplane & the FBI agent tracking Beavis & Butthead in their movie. I believe he also played Eliot Ness in an old 50s show

R378 plus a dash of Ben Stiller

Cindy James was a nut who did it to herself. A lot of media like to think it was a case of the cops dismissing another emotional female they didn't take seriously. Not true. They investigated the hell out of her case. The fires were started from within the house. They had surveillance on her for days and days. Nothing would happen until the police left. She was caught cutting her own phone wires. She constantly changed her stories. She was evasive. Mostly uncooperative with police help offered. Plus as unbelievable as her case sounds there are many other cases a lot like hers.

I don't think she meant to die she just got beat at her own game.

I can't believe that , twenty years later, there hasn't been a Cindy James movie ...........that shit has Oscar bait written all over it .....

"I can't believe that , twenty years later, there hasn't been a Cindy James movie ...........that shit has Oscar bait written all over it ....."

Did someone say my name?

It wouldn't be the first movie you died in. Bitch.

I don't know anything about the case, but didn't Cindy James have her hands and feet bound behind her back? How did she do that to herself?

For me there is nothing more gruesome than these two: Dahmer and Gacy. They give me nightmares.

What happ To that Japanese girl is horrendous. Those 4 killers should have gotten the death penalty. Just a super sick story

Cecil the lion.

The wacko that killed Cecil killed other endangered animals such as leopards and rhinos. I hope he rots in hell.

what's really scary for me is when the murderer is really young and evil (like Robert Thompson and Jon Venables , Eric Smith) but they don't get locked up at all/or not for very long + you hear that they go out with new identities.

The preppy killer Robert Chambers.

R386, check out David Parker Ray, who tortured women for prolonged periods before killing them.

Also Westley Allan Dodd, who built a torture rack on which he could torture small boys before killing them. Dodd said that if physically able he would do everything in his power to escape from prison so he could kidnap, torture and murder more boys.

And of course Fred and Rosemary, who are arguably in a category all their own:

Yes, that is what the investigation concluded R385 ...... you can watch the video at the R371 link above ...........it is nine minutes long.

Cindy James had her feet and arms tied up. That doesn't lend itself to expressing the degree to which she was tied. She wasn't hogtied like you're imagining. You know where every move makes it tighter. It was pretty easy to see she could have done it. Do it yourself. Tie a loop around both ends of plenty long enough rope. Slip it on you ankles, lay on your stomach, put your hands back, slip them in.

The whole town knew she was off her rocker for a LONG time. As did the people she worked with. It makes good press to believe she was stalked and mysteriously killed. Damsel in distress. Ignored by the police. It's just not the case. She destroyed her ex-husband's life.

Here. Hogtied and all. Under three minutes

R360, that Great Falls case (that boy Zachary) is absolutely horrific. Read the whole link, start to finish, and difficult to comprehend how monsters like that can exist in this world without conscience. Thank God the killer died in prison --- good riddance.

Who was the guy who was burying dead boys alll over his property, I think it was somewhere in Indiana and he was married at the time. I think he picked them up in gay bars or something. Went on for years?

R396: sounds like herb baumeister

The sons found bones out in the woods behind their haunted estate known as 'fox hollow farm'

They suspected Herb Baumeister of murdering scores of gay men on the road from Ohio to Indiana beginning in the 70's through 1994 or whatever. When his business was starting up he made regular trips to Ohio, his wife confirmed it. As they closed in on him, he killed himself, but one of his sex partners admitted that he confessed to killing a lot more than what they found buried on his property.

Ted Bundy

Murder of Derrick Robie by Eric Smith.

This story creeps me out, too.

Cindy James is a real life "Gone Girl"

R403 - Gone Girl, Gone Wrong

Who killed the Cindy James Wikipedia page?

The John List massacre is pretty disturbing

I remember this happening. I was scared to eat in restaurants for awhile after this incident.

They Tylenol case still gets me.

What Tylenol case?

There was also an excedrin copycat case with that clownish hag up in Seattle

Combining the DL fave subject of gay porn, the (supposed ?) death of gay porn model Sergio Canali is pretty creepy ....

Sergio Canali — also billed as Paul DiRosa — was a boyish, recognizable face in early and mid-’80s titles like California Summer, Mantalk, Men On The Loose, and French Lieutenant’s Boys. He typified the waifish, vulnerable look that would soon fall by the wayside by the dawn of the over-aerobicized ’90s, his departure from the adult film industry taking place around 1988. A cursory Web search will reveal his date of death to have occurred in 1994 (of rather murky “undetermined causes” in Seattle, his given name Paul Francis Sypek included), but conflicting reports beginning in 2008 paint a far grimmer picture. Canali is alleged to have actually disappeared while in Florence, Italy sometime in 1992, kidnapped and held captive by a fixated fan and local named Leonardo Vitti, who for a time was considered a suspect in his disappearance.

Chillingly, Canali’s skeletal remains — along with those of his captor Vitti — are alleged to have been uncovered when a derelict home owned by Vitti was slated for demolition. The cause of death for both men remains undetermined, though inferences of a murder/suicide plot are certainly reasonable. Whatever the outcome, Canali’s ultimate fate is a perplexing mystery, and my efforts to pinpoint an exact cause of death — if indeed he is deceased — have proven futile.

WOW!! R411. Thanks.

My mom and her first husband lived in St. Louis in the early and mid 1960s. He was Roman Catholic and mom had converted, and they often had get-togethers with church friends. Mom mentioned one couple that just wouldn't leave after a party, and it was so bad that her husband had to physically push them out of the apartment. At some point in the future (mom didn't say when, or maybe I forgot) the creepy couple were arrested for having kidnapped a lady and held her prisoner in their basement.

Not sure if they lived in the St. Louis area at the time. Wish I knew enough about the case to look it up.

Some interesting cases but there are too many fraus in this thread.

Bump.

The Tylenol case.

They seemed very sure about Lewis.

At the same time, a company in Elk Grove Village, where the first case was, was killing its own workers with cyanide.

Not to mention how greedy do you have to be to make money by stripping the silver off of old movies?

Oba Chandler. Really cruel. Tied up a woman and two daughters and threw them alive into Tampa Bay.

Apparently another Mormon get rich quick scheme, the film recovery thing.

R6 i think you are confusing that with another set of murders; he lured one of his victims with the promise of curing her bronchitis but he didn't promise anyone an abortion.

Theresa Knorr. The sixties, seventies and eighties were a very dangerous time to be a child if you had an insane mother. These poor girls were never reported missing and were Jane Doe's until the youngest daughter mustered up the courage to tell the police. Theresa Knorr. The sixties, seventies and eighties were a very dangerous time to be a child if you had an insane mother. These poor girls were never reported missing and were Jane Doe's until the youngest daughter mustered up the courage to tell the police.

There was a murder case in New Jersey in the '80s that bore similarities to the cases of both Gertrude Baniszewski and Theresa Knorr -- and was somehow even more fucked-up than both. Strangely, it got very little national attention.

Could someone help me out? When I was a kid around 30 years ago, there was a true crime book written about a socialite or oprea singer who was murderd by her husband, I think? The book was written in the 1970s or 1980s and I don't know the auther nor title. I remember the cover of the book had like a blood splatter design on it. I have been looking for that book for years and I can't find it. Its not the Nutcracker murder which has blood splatterd on it on its cover as well. This is another book. I have searched through hunderds of books on Amazon and nothing shows up. Anyone might know this book?

"The sixties, seventies and eighties were a very dangerous time to be a child if you had an insane mother."

Well, considering that 90% of homicides are committed by men, I'd wager it was worse to have an insane father.

[quote]Murders that haunt you

Mine.

I know I’m over a year late in replying, but thank you, R423 for that bizarre, funny, horrifying, and sad case. I can’t believe how obscure it is. Nothing comes up in a cursory YouTube search. No Wikipedia entry. Only old newspaper articles from the time of the trial and the reversal of the murder conviction.

There’s this one blog that gets wrong all the names of the victims/youths and apparently the age of the older woman who lived with Marie Moore at the start of her first episode of insanity in NJ.

Somehow it doesn’t seem as disturbing to me as the Gertrude Baniszewski story, but that might be just because it hasn’t been made into two movies (I just watched An American Crime for the first time last night and am deeply traumatized and saddened).

Albert Fish is literally one of the craziest and most fucked up people I have read about. His X-Ray of his body and reading his letters he sent to his victims gave me nightmares.

R424 is it blood and money by Thomas Thompson? That book is about a socialite.