Gay voice

Queeny affectations

Genetics. Really. I knew kids in grade school and high school who had it. And they were bullied relentlessly. If they could have stopped, they would have. But they couldn't because that's the way they were made.

A combo of hubris and it's 3AM and they're out of gin.

Has this been scientifically researched, R2?

Haven't we already had this thread 3000 times at least?

Coincidentally . . .

Yup, was about to post the trailer to that film as well, R6. Looks v. interesting.

See NYT link. And, yes, there has been at least 10 post about this already.

R2, I have no idea. But how can a little boy have what's commonly called gay voice, carry it over into puberty, and then cry in a corner because all of the "macho" assholes made fun of him in the most humiliating ways possible? Surely these boys would do anything to have been considered "normal", and one of the things they would have done to fit in was to talk in a "normal" fashion if they could have. Also, 99.9% of these guys turn out to be gay.

I was very straight appearing and acting, and used to stand up for these guys. Some of them became among my best friends in school, and I still occasionally keep in touch. They're usually the kindest and most emphatic beings that God created.

Absent fathers, overbearing mothers, and disproportionately large collections of original Broadway cast recordings.

And we adored you for it, R9.

gays are slapped too hard

I had gay voice well, really it Valley Girl Voice until my mid-twenties when some brute made fun of me.

It was then that I focused on cultivating a more mature voice, like a newscaster, but still it got me nowhere in life (RIP Jessica Savich).

Sibilant s's.

Keeps your vowels short. Gay voice, GONE, I mean GOOOOOOOONE.

[quote]What causes it?

A preference for heterosocial relationships from an early age

Wiki link.

If the SJW could make Heterosociality a 'thing' then we have a chance in saving Western civilization.

With Islam, and many other multicultural movements, same-sex relations are restricted to marriage.

Heterosocialization is a great thing, the hallmark of an advanced and tolerant culture.

Do gays with gay voice know how they sound?

I often wish they would deepen their voices and speak differently so that they don't reinforce the stereotype of gays as high-pitched voiced queens.

They don't usually have it until after they come out. They put it on initially because they do not quite understand what it means to be gay, so they copy stereotypes that straight people assigned us. Eventually it becomes a habit. With just a small amount of self discipline they can kick this habit and go back to being who they really are instead of putting on a facade. In other words it's completely put on. Also what I am saying isn't homophobic. I am gay myself and have no problem with people who want to marry the same sex. I myself want to marry the same sex. But people, please be yourselves and not what popular culture expects a gay man to be.

[quote]I often wish they would deepen their voices and speak differently

Hard for me to do. I don't have a truly high-pitched voice -- no one says "Hello, Ma'am" when I call on the phone -- but it's hard to make it any lower, as I lack an Adam's apple.

Is R20 more of an asshole or an idiot?

Last I checked, a lisp is a speech disorder

[quote]I lack an Adam's apple.

Are you Bruce Jenner?

eating cum

Unless you have some type of hormonal imbalance or testosterone insensitivity, the "gay voice" is totally put on.

I must have one or the other, then, R26. Because my gay voice is not "put on" at all.

I've known a lot of straight guys, who could mimic 'gayvoice' to perfection. Maybe it's the expression of a feminine side that every man has, but that most suppress.

With some exceptions, it seems that most gay guys have higher voices than straight guys.

I think it's genetics. The gay people who argue against that probably chose to be gay, or had a dominating mother and absentee father, or was molested by an adult male.

It's caused by abuse of loafer lightener and mincing gel.

Heterosocialization? Oh good lord.

The gay voice makes me nauseous and makes my penis shrivel

[quote]Heterosocialization

Yet another label in a society with far too many meaningless, restrictive labels.

r19 Most people speak two octaves higher than they need to.

How now brown cow.

They either subconsciously identify as a Blonde Valley Girl or LaQuisha....that's why they sound like that. Listen to butch girls. They identify as a rapper or some sports star and try to sound like them

[R22]

"We think it's a mix............"

Gay voice is put on by mincers and tea room queens.

Gay voice is not always high in pitch, contrary to popular belief. You can have a very deep voice and still have gay voice. Santino Rice is a great example.

David Muir of ABC News completely eradicated his gay voice that was prominent in his early news days. Now he has an extremely smooth delivery. I think some guys lose it with age, as it might be affectation to fit in with peers when you're young.

Gays are gay, so they sound pretty gay.

Glad you asked! I had gay voice as a kid, and took enormous abuse from siblings and everyone in school from speech class to football jocks.

Pop was an audiophile. He had an Ampex 600 reel to reel and an RCA 77DX ribbon mic, so I set out to use them to cure my gay voice and get an announcer job. It took lots of hours of practice and listening back to the tapes...but it happened. I got a straight sounding, midwest accented announcer voice and got a radio gig playing Led Zepplin and Bobby Sherman records...now that's a mix!

I ended up sounding like DJs of the era, however. We were called 'pukers' in the business, and that's kind of like George Takei but much more stentorian. Later, I got into voiceover work and did a lot of listening back to develop a more natural style. Parts of my gay voice came back...that's me, after all. It comes through in a slight Valley Girl lilt at times.

Why does Arnold Schwarzenegger have an Austrian accent even though he's lived in the US for decades? He grew up (spent his FORMATIVE YEARS) in Austria. Gay men many times are friends with girls growing up. As a result gay men pick up a few characteristics. Since these characteristics can be learned they can be "unlearned" or trained into something else.

[quote]Most people speak two octaves higher than they need to.

Scientific evidence to back this up, please.

R9. He is on the right track. How many times must we go over this issue. I am simply astounded at he lack of common sense relating to the issue of this subset of the larger "sexual orientation is a choice" nonsense. No normal human, certainly no child, chooses to be bullied and ostracized.. That is simply common sense derived from real observation of human behavior. Quite the opposite is true. There is an extraordinarily strong drive to conform that is difficult to ignore. It is what socialization means in everyday real terms. All of us know that from our own personal experience as well as simply observing any group of middle schoolers. No amount of abstracting human behavior into politically correct "conscious choice" categories will ever overcome common sense and experience. Sounding intelligent and actually being intelligent are obviously two distinct things. "Heterosociality" is another step into that miasma of trying to abstract human reality into meaningless academic gibberish totally removed from human experience. It is so clearly a form of intellectual masturbation that reminds me of the quote from Shakespeare, "It is a tale, told by an idiot, full of sound and fury and signifying nothing.". This nonsense is hurting the gay community and needs to be confronted.

R44 R9 is not on the right track. Picking up characteristics doesn't mean it is done on purpose. Gay boys are not setting out to learn a certain way of talking it just happens from socializing with girls. Just like Arnold Schwarzenegger having an Austrian accent even though he has lived in the US for decades, once a pattern of behavior is established in people's FORMATIVE years it is hard to break, most don't even try. Gay boys don't change their "gay voice" because they don't know how to or don't know they have one. Gay men think it's as simple as lowering the sound but it's more complex and finer.

[quote]Gay boys don't change their "gay voice" because they don't know how to or don't know they have one.

How can they not know how they sound?

So here's one my friends and I sometimes mull over: is there a biological and/or psychological difference between gay men who had gay voice as kids, who were obvious "sissies" (love that 1940s word) and gay men who didn't, who "passed" as straight.

I think it's easy for some people to lose their gay voice, the same way people can lose Southern or New York accents. And plenty of guys start talking like that once they come out. I find it less with guys in their 20s--the ones who did not have gay voice to begin with, don't feel the need to adopt it.

r43 It's not a science, it's aesthetics and the easier route is to stay in a higher, limited range. You can speak more expressively if you broaden your range.

As an example, Hilary Clinton has become a more forceful , expressive speaker by lowering her range., This also applies to men.

It was a part of professional vocal training, it's not a science.

R20 is probably neither, R22. He is right. It's such a put-on; I know gay men with gay voice who have NO gay voice when they are by themselves or at home. I had a neighbor in an apartment building like this, whenever I'd stop by his voice was very neutral, but holy smokes, if you saw him at a bar or out with his friends, it was a flamefest.

I'm not offended by it, but let's not lie; it's for show. It's a put on. it's THEATRICAL, and a lot of gay men love putting that on.

An analogy might be Oprah, who has spoken about putting on, or using, or enjoying two different voices.

[quote]Most people speak two octaves higher than they need to.

you do realizes that the average untrained human voice only spans a bit over an octave.

r2

I stopped doing it.

R49, I don't doubt that some gay men put on gay voice to be amusing or whatever. I have a very deep voice, but I'll camp it up a bit when out with gay friends.

But that doesn't change the fact that are there are thousands(probably more) children who have that voice all of their life, are teased about it, and would change it if they could. I've known them, maybe others here have known them, and I'm sure everyone since the beginning of time have known boys who, through no fault of their own, have voices that are stereotypically "gay", and there's nothing they can do about it. They are treated terribly by their peers, and it's something I've seen first hand and wish it could be stopped.

It's true, O speaks in multiple tongues.

r51 no, I didn't. I was lied to by a woman who made a fortune pitching for Midol and Mecede Benz.

More like a half an octave, Thanks for setting it straight.

-or maybe it's possible she meant some other measure of vocal range?

By "gay voice", I assume you mean like the way say, John Waters speaks (sing-song, sort of high pitched, lisping). I don't think I've ever heard a child or a kid in early puberty with gay voice. I'm British and at secondary school (ages 11-16) I don't think there were any openly gay people. Of course gay/poof/faggot etc. was used as an insult but I don't remember anyone being singled for bullying specifically because people genuinely thought they were gay.

PS. Example of Brits with gay voice would be Alan Carr, Paul O'Grady (Lily Savage), Julian Clary, Mr Humphries from Are You Being Served and Kenneth Williams (although his voice is quite unique).

[quote]Just like Arnold Schwarzenegger having an Austrian accent even though he has lived in the US for decades, once a pattern of behavior is established in people's FORMATIVE years it is hard to break, most don't even try.

I read somewhere that Arnie deliberately tried to retain his accent, even going to voice coaches because it's his trademark. There are often people who move to America who never completely lose their accent but it becomes quite Americanised. Like Malcolm McDowell (though he tends to revert back to RP English in his films) Or Julie Delpy - if you watch Before Sunrise and Before Sunset back to back you can definitely notice her accent becoming Americanised in the second one.

Watch TV and movies from the 40s, 50s and 60s, most everyone, both men and women spoke with a deeper, richer voice. It was the fashion, it was considered proper and how one was supposed to speak.

I think people today generally speak with a higher pitch, weird affectations and more animation than people did a generation ago.

And I'm always amazed to hear pop and rock singers from the 1960s...they were kids in their early 20s and they had these big rich manly voices. What's happened to them? Listen to Robert Lamm (Chicago), David Clayton-Thomas, Gary Puckett, Jim Morrison, Tom Jones etc.

Young men just don't have those kind of voices today.

[quote]So here's one my friends and I sometimes mull over: is there a biological and/or psychological difference between gay men who had gay voice as kids, who were obvious "sissies" (love that 1940s word) and gay men who didn't, who "passed" as straight.

Current science points to a biological basis. If one could study so called "gender nonconforming" kids brains through FMRI scans, you'd probably find the speech centres and left-right hemisphere asymmetry to be more similar to the brains of young girls. Boys who could "pass" as straight would have less substantial gender atypical differences in their brain structure.

R44:

[quote]No normal human, certainly no child, chooses to be bullied and ostracized..

But that's my whole point - it's not a choice. While essentialism is damaging, one can't remove the biological component at play here. If some gay kids are pre-determined to speak with a feminine lilt, avoid rough contact or team sports and have a friend base that consists mostly of girls - that's nature's guiding hand. There's also a complex interplay between biological and environment factors going on. The brain is plastic,especially at that stage of development. What I called "heterosocialization" (a horrible unwieldy term) could be responsible for some biological markers we see in the brains of some gay adults.

It's no different than valley girl talk. It's aped and mimicked - usually deliberately affected to annoy others.

If you want to lose the gay voice, cultivate, nurture and embrace your masculinity. The "manly" voice will come naturally.

It's usually not just gayvoice. There is almost always an entire persona that goes along with it.

You don't hear your voice as others hear you. Spent a night at a bar chatting up a young, extremely attractive, presumably straight guy at a bar in my home town. He said I sounded like Vincent Price. I was like, what?

Damn, looking back, I probably could have gotten into his pants, had I played my cards right.

[quote]Watch TV and movies from the 40s, 50s and 60s, most everyone, both men and women spoke with a deeper, richer voice.

Smoking?

yup

Gay voice does not annoy me.

I didn't realize I had gay voice until I heard myself on tape when I was about 13 or 14. So some of us don't realize it.

With normal gay voice a person can produce variation depending on message, context, environment, etc., so part of that is show, but when you get into something like daveywaveyism, where the individual's throat produces something aurally painful to others, that is probably genetic.

This is 'Gay Voice'

Evidently, according to this Wikipedia article, most people can detect gay males from their voices, even if you think you are, cough, cough, straight acting.

It really shouldn't be called a lisp, which is an actual speech impediment that anyone can have.

I read that about gay gait too. Meaning most people can spot a gay by the way he walks, it was something about the knees.

IIRC it was to do with swaying the hips R73, while straight (and presumably straight acting and closeted) men swaggered with their shoulders. They filmed subjects from behind walking on a treadmill, but unfortunately the study had a miniscule sample size.

[quote]Evidently, according to this Wikipedia article, most people can detect gay males from their voices, [bold]even if you think you are, cough, cough, straight acting.[/bold]

Nowhere in the article does it say that.

"It's no different than valley girl talk. It's aped and mimicked - usually deliberately affected to annoy others."

Not true. Even closeted guys who are TRYING to appear straight have it...why would a closet case deliberately try to sound gay?

R74 'other studies have found that when people listened to audio recordings of male speakers and were asked to identify their sexual orientation, their guesses were accurate'

[quote] 'other studies have found that when people listened to audio recordings of male speakers and were asked to identify their sexual orientation, their guesses were accurate'

Yes dear, but by what percentage? Look at the actual studies and find out for yourself.

R77 - It would be interesting if the posters on here could leave a link of a recording of their voices for us to judge. . .

[quote] I was very straight appearing and acting,

I'll be the judge of that.

Link to video, please.

Gay voice, gay face and jazz hands. He really lets his guard down at 3:40

R80: there is also the shift to a higher octave when asked if it was awkward filming the steamy love scene

It's not a lisp, it's a sing songy speech pattern which is very similar to that of teenage girls/valley girls. It's probably a function of subconscious imprinting. A lot of these guys feel more comfortable hanging out with girls in high school and adopt the same speech patterns. I know someone who came to the US as a teen and hung out with girls in his American high school. Consequently, he speaks like a valley girl when he speaks English, but in his native language, he sounds completely straight which is probably because he went to an all boys school in his native country.

r73 I notice queeny gays walk fast and nervously while masculine gays/straight guys stroll along and own the street.

r80 Do you think Taylor is a bottom?

So there are definitely guys who talked like that in kindergarten and grew up to be gay. But there are also guys who sounded "normal" and within months of coming out were talking like Richard Simmons. No idea why. And plenty of guys who sound like any other guy-- no gay voice.

But media plays up guys with gay voice. Modern Family, Glee—they all sound stereotypically gay. One thing you can say for QAF is most of them didn't sound gay. Probably because the actors were straight, but still...

Not proud of it, but I feel uncomfortable being in public with guys who have obvious gay voice/mannerisms.

R84 - I think, he's a reluctant versatile - he prefers to bottom, but will, if his fuck buddy wants it, top him. He also likes the close contact of flat on the bed, rather than doggie style, or legs up in the air. Yup, that's what I think. . .

R86 has obviously given having sex with Taylor Lautner a whole lot of thought...

R87 - I'm playing with R84, how the fuck do I know, or think, about this strangers (Lautner)sex life? I gave an answer I thought he'd want to hear.

Here we go: drunken holiday spat over misinterpreted good natured ribbing between R87 & R88 in 3...2...1...

I also feel uncomfortable in public when a gay guy I'm with starts queening it up, loudly.

What's with people on here constantly insisting that ALL gay guys walk and talk in a way that betrays their sexuality? There are PLENTY of us who are assumed by most people to be straight until we state otherwise. Jeez.

r88 How? I thought your gaydar can access the Akashic Records...

"A lot of these guys feel more comfortable hanging out with girls in high school and adopt the same speech patterns"

All guys spend time around women/girls, not just gays. Unless you are in prison or in all-boys boarding school, you are around women

Yes R92, but there's a difference between hanging around women and having 90% of one's friend base being female. In GNC pre-gay children, what's going on is a form of social imprinting. If you relate more to girls, you're more likely to pick up their behaviors, inflections and mannerisms.

[quote]I also feel uncomfortable in public when a gay guy I'm with starts queening it up, loudly.

Pathetic.

A summation of the evidence present in this thread by way of the Bee Gees:

"Well, you can tell by the way I use my walk, I'm a woman's man, no time to talk." - straight Robin Gibb

"Well, you can tell by the way I use my talk, I like when the man go up into the man." - gay Robbin Gibb

Tom Cruise did an ok job of supressing his gay voice (much more prominent in his youth).

"Yes R92, but there's a difference between hanging around women and having 90% of one's friend base being female"

Straight guys spend more time with their girlfriends than gay guys do with their fag hags

It's true

It's also true that I can tell less and less by a man's look whether he's gay or straight, but he opens his mouth, I'm nearly always positive.

Interesting.

Years of being societally menaced into a state of passive-aggression. "Gay voice" is the voice of passive-aggression. Many women (or are conditioned to always please and not seem too aggressive or unlikable) have it, too, they just have different pipes and hormones to go with it.

butch it up!

Marky Mark's gay voice slips out once in awhile.

On Queer As Folk Emmet was a screaming queen while Justin was more low key he was still naturally effeminate. Ted and Michael were neither effeminate nor masculine while Brian could be described as masculine.

Birth

What causes it? I would guess some desperate need for attention.

^ Except most of the guys who have it desperately wish they DIDN'T have it

Why the hell would you want the negative attention it brings, R105?

I have it. Personally I think it's endearing. Makes me sound cute and charming and approachable.

A desperation for attention?