Attracted to the same sex, but not to the "gay lifestyle"

Is this a troll post?

Do you really think dancing to Liza shirtless is definitive of the 'gay brain'?

If you are attracted primarily to your own sex, you're gay.

You'd be considered "G0Y" - a term made up by the goy manifesto troll. You'd be absurdly polite to weak womens, chop down invasive non-native trees, become a locovore, and only do oral.

We wouldn't chat and that would keep me happy.

What the heck is the gay lifestyle, OP? If it's buying overpriced drinks, going deaf and trying to get the approval of vapid people, I've long since disengaged from that and don't miss it a bit.

Gay is a word.

There are many homosexuals who are not gay.

I understand what he's saying. I'm gay, but not into the things that are stereotypically gay. I had somewhat of an epiphany when I was starting to date someone, and he had me over to dinner one night to meet his friends. The guy I was seeing was well-travelled, educated, a Mensa member, etc, and his friends were all well-traveled and intelligent. But what did they talk about all night? Who was cute. Who had a big dick. Who is sleeping with whom. EVERYTHING revolved around sex. There seems to be a mad rush to show your gay bonafides when gays are with other gay men. Granted, I don't live in a large city -- I'm in Nashville -- and I'm sure it's possible to find gay men who don't feel the need to talk gay all the time, but here, sadly, they do. I have stopped associating with gay men down here, and don't have any gay friends. That doesn't mean I'm closeted and pretend I'm anything I'm not, but I don't want to be in a group that embraces cultural norms that hold no appeal to me. Yes, I'm sure there are others like me down here, but in the 20 years I've lived in Nashville, I have not found them.

Gay=Homosexual. Those that try to make those words mean two different things have issues.

And I say that as someone who has never fit in with the stereotypical "gay community".

But I'm GAY, I'm not going to go around describing myself clinically as "homosexual" or "same-sex attracted" or any of that other awkward bullshit just because I'm not obsessed with rainbows and showtunes. That's just stupid.

Guys who are effeminate, or into drag, or fashion or decorating or whatever aren't "less than". I'm not "better than". That's all just bullshit. We're all just different.

And we're all gay. Get over it.

...like, introvert vs. extrovert? Mild vs. wild? Like...all people?

Question (not a question disguised as a statement): Isn't this notion just another form of self-loathing or internalized homophobia - "I may want to have sex with other men, but I'm NOT ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE."

The idea that there is a monolithic gay lifestyle beyond the lifestyle which includes having sex with people of the same gender is a bit silly.

It's like the idea of a monolithic straight lifestyle.

Not every straight person loves pro sports or literary fiction. Not every straight person knows who Gordie Howe or Donna Tartt.

It's also confirmation bias. You only see what you want to see.

There are huge swathes of gay people who don't conform to the stereotypes, but are less visible because the media does't focus on them because they're aren't as colorful. The average gay person who simply goes about his life would not make a good story or media impression.

R6 The most flamboyant person I know is a straight woman. She's the second coming of Barbara Streisand but with more oomph. But she's always been a kind of tap dancing, center of stage standing social butterfly. That's just her personality. It's not something tied to her sexuality.

Some gay people are a one person leather and whips fireworks shows, just as some straight girls are flashing their tits for beads at Mardi Gras. I don't think it's just a gay thing.

This has to be a joke? Do you seriously think every gay person is into circuit parties and Judy Garland and that you are some kind of magical unicorn? Jesus Fucking Christ you idiots.

Fit into the gay community? What is that? The idea that you must be some walking stereotype just because you like to have sex with men.

Just be you dude and live your life. You seem ridiculously sheltered and simple-minded.

...and some gay people like to refinish wooden boats. Others like 19th century French poetry. Others are Nascar fans. It's just about different taste. I think the only reason gay people felt comfortable expressing themselves freely in different arts genres is because there's been a much longer history of gay people being welcomed into those non-traditional, often counter culture flocks.

Gay has gone mainstream, so just be yourself and don't measure yourself against people with completely different personalities and interests.

Get real R6. I work in healthcare and we can't say gay, EVER. We ask if you engage in sexual activity with another man.

The majority of men who have sex with other men do not identify as gay. The majority. Scream gay until you die, but this puts you into the minority of men who have sex with men.

With all minority groups, there is a push to put you into a box. If you aren't a math whiz, you are somehow less Asian. If you don't like hip hop, you are somehow less black. The same thing is happening for gays, too -- as we emerge from the closets and fringes of society. Not all gay people like Liza and Barbra and Madonna and Broadway and all that other stuff.

You have two choices, either give into it or just don't give a damn and live your life as you see fit.

R13 Everyone else is putting "White People" into one, big box, too so my advice is to ignore when other people tell you who you are, OP and just be yourself. I don't like showtunes. Except some from "The Music Man". Love opera, though.

But being "stereotypically gay" doesn't mean anything except that our culture has a list of (outdated) tropes that they think all gay men follow. It's not true. If you're gay, you're gay; liking Liza or not has nothing to do with it.

If you'll all excuse me, I'm going to go dance shirtless (so as to better expose my card-free body) to "Color Me Barbra" while waving a rainbow flag and flashing my waxed taint.

OP, do you just not like those things or do you actively dislike them, just because so many associate certain things with "gay"? There are lots of classically GAY! things I'm indifferent about but I'm not going to deny liking aspects of things just because someone else might call it stereotype. If you're denying liking what you like just because of this, then you might have a hang-up.

If you just don't like most or all of those things, you'll have to do what every person seeking a romantic interest has had to do, forever; keep searching for someone you're compatible with.

R16 Hotpants are back! They were LISTENING!

I'd like to add that so far from what R8 said above, liking literary fiction, so far from being a straight stereotype, is probably something that's slightly more associated with gays and lesbians. American authors and literatteurs of the past century have been disproportionately homosexual.

And OP, there are now so many examples of famous openly gay men who don't fit into your stereotypes that I'm astonished you could bring this up in 2015.

I choose to say NO to wearing a green carnation in my buttonhole!

The flashy gay men are the minority. The overt, drunken gays in the Pride Parades are in the minority.

Most people who have same-sex attraction, whether acted upon or not, do not participate in the "gay community" nor do they give too shits about "gay culture."

Triple that sentiment with women, who are mostly disgusted by overtly dykey women.

How stupid I, why do people even ponder these thIngs, are they fourteen?

[quote]OP, do you just not like those things or do you actively dislike them, just because so many associate certain things with "gay"? There are lots of classically GAY! things I'm indifferent about but I'm not going to deny liking aspects of things just because someone else might call it stereotype. If you're denying liking what you like just because of this, then you might have a hang-up.

This is the other side of the coin. There are plenty of gay men who I think are terrified of exploring the possibility they might like things that are stereotypically gay.

[quote]But what did they talk about all night? Who was cute. Who had a big dick. Who is sleeping with whom. EVERYTHING revolved around sex.

There is a point I'd make there though. Sometimes gay people became friends solely because they were gay. Because gay men are such a diverse group of people the only thing that actually unites them is their sexual orientation. I've often seen groups of some gay men where the only thing they really have to talk about is guys, because other than that they happen not to have much in common.

I would like to add that people who actively distance themselves from "gay" things, to try and show the world that they aren't like "those gays" in order to fit some kind of heteronormative bullshit are the worst. You don't have to be a fisting bareback pass around party bottom who gets fucked while Judy plays in the background, but you don't have to trash them either.

This discussion brought to you by the year 1995.

Posts like this one are cover for homophobia- I refused to think that the OP is that stupid.

If R20 is gay then gay is great.

Eh! It's a free country!

This thread is so fresh and new.

I'm sure there will be thoughtful reflections and wisdoms that weren't unearthed in the previous 908,567,342,345,987,647,093,241,458 threads about this very same subject.

Green carnations are evah so exotically pleasing to the eye though...

R30 The boys at the office call him "Carnation Charlie". Bungalows, sunken bathtubs, organs -- the only organ she'll be playing is a mouth organ.

I agree with R5 and the last paragraph of R23. I too have no gay friends mainly because I find the constant discussion of sex to be juvenile. That's what I hated about straight men in high school and college. All they could talk about was pussy and sports. And then as grown men they can only feel comfortable if they are bragging. And gay men brag too. Must be a trait of being an American male. I would love to have a circle of gay friends who were eclectic in their hobbies and likes, and had a real sense of friendship. Someone who had your back. Over the last 25 years gay men have just left me feeling" meh". I can enjoy my own company or my family's more than mean girls dress liked men. They don't want to bond with people they consider ugly. They are too afraid to bond with people who will tell them the truth. The idea of the smart, witty, urbane gay man with an air grace and honesty died with Clifton Webb.

R32

I do know what you mean. After escaping the shallowness of constant boobs/football/macho 'conversation' of straight boys in their teens and early twenties, it feels like backsliding to enter a world where dick and working out are he central topics of conversation.

Meanwhile, ironically, those same straight guys often smarten up, start talking about wine varieties and economics, get mature and married, while gay guys often go backward, trying to recreate the adolescent stage of their lives. By 45 straight men often seem more sophisticated.

Thank you, R32. I want friends, straight and gay, who have varied interests and who wish to share their interests with me. To take this beyond friendship, I got turned off to Dating sites, after most potential matches asked if I was a top or a bottom, or hairy or smooth. R32, you're right, the "constant discussion of sex" is "juvenile."

It is this kind of statements that makes me think that there is a difference between gay and homosexual.

"Gay" is more like a subcultural identity which encompasses all the stereotypes we know. You can choose to like a certain type of music, fashion, etc, but those, in no way, are linked or influenced by sexual orientation. This is why I see "gay" as a subcultural identity. How to be gay?, is your closet gay?, gay scene/culture, etc and more examples of subcultural connotations that define the term "gay".

"Homosexual" makes reference to sexual orientation (sexual, emotional, romantic attraction to the same sex). It doen't have subcultural connotatuon nor does it speak about a certain way of being, behaving, etc. It only defines attraction.

But that just isn't true R35. There is no difference between homosexual and gay, except in people who are uncomfortable with the world "gay".

All gay means is a person who is attracted to same sex and not the opposite sex.

There are more differences WITHIN a group than BETWEEN groups. Diversity applies to the homosexual community too.

R36

Actually, from a historical perspective, there is a difference. The word "gay" began to be used to define the stereotypical flamboyant gay man whose behaviour was quite noticeable. "Gay" meaning esentially "happy" is in reference to their flamboyant, eccentric, effeminate and happy behaviour that made them stand out.

These men used to gather together in the, at that time, emerging gay scene which made them more noticeable for the general population. From this point in time is when the assumption that all homosexual men behave stereotypically took root in people's mind. They were to notorious ones so they were easy to spot, identify and define as how "all homosexual men are".

It was mainly the US that set the parameters as to "what is being gay" for the rest of the world through the US media (movies, sitcoms, music, etc) although some of these parameters were not adopted due to cultural reasons, for example. The US associates "gay" with plays and singers such as Barbra Streisand but outside the US those parameters were not adopted because not all countries have a strong theatre culture, but the basic premises as to what being gay is were taken/adpoted: effeminacy, flamboyancy, admiration of diva singers, etc thus creating a gay scene/culture emulating the gay scene/culture emerging in the US.

r38 is extremely old.

Barbra? Liza? Still?

This is so lame. I have found that queens generally rule the gay scene because they have always been at the forefront, especially in the fight for acceptance, like Stonewall, the most visible etc, and as a consequence they feel they get to define what 'gay' really is. You meet these toxic people all over the scene....in any country. I once had the temerity to tell one that I did not like Lady GaGa, the reply was a shocked 'Really?..wow your....different!

R39

Haha, well, as time goes by there is a roTation of "gay icons". Lady Gaga is now a gay icon.

[R38] I don't think the USA began that trend at all. It's been there for a long time. And outside America we have the same connotations to being gay. Queens get very angry with gays who aren't as camp as them, like they feel inadequate and want every gay to be like them, well sorry, but we come in all shapes and sizes, and you don't get to put us in a box thanks. We prefer men end of story. We don't have to fit within your parameters of what's gay!!

oops I meant op is extremely old.

"Bearded ladies", I love it.

I dont give a damn who is considered a 'Gay icon' these days, the term has lost all meaning. Anyone can be one these days, any talent free slut, selling a sad image, and who claims to love us....yeh we still fall for that marketing ploy don't we??

R42

Well, if you look at gay scenes around the world, most of the follow the parameters that the US set which is not entirely the creation of the US but an amalgamtion of different ifluences from cosmopolitan countries (basically, the US and the UK).

The US came to finally give the complete shape of what "being gay" is all about, other countries adopted most of these parameters, some of them were adapated to their own culture while others remained the same.

op has such a prejudiced view of our lifestyle. just like hetero people we all have a myriad of different interests and pastimes.

There is no such thing as 'gay culture' it is entirely made up of the campy bits of the mainstream.

Obviously this new format will continue to bring out trolls like OP.

How long have you been posting on DL, OP? Are you new? You must be, because this same fucking thread with the same fucking, lame ass responses you are trolling for has been done so many times before on different DL formats.

Give it a rest already or at least try to be more creative in your trolling.

Really, no gay culture? How about the style in clothing (effeminate), the diva pop appraisal, the drag queen movement, gay accent and slang, etc asnd etc? There is a whole urban world that revolves around those and other parameters.

It doesn't represent all homosexual men, but certainly, something that we can call "gay culture" exists that works very much like other subcultures such gothic, punk, otaku, etc.

You have got to be kidding with this OP!

I have NEVER seen the Mason/Garland version of A Star is Born.

I've only been to a gay bar twice in 35 years.

AND I'm gayer than the toucan picking lice out of Raven Symone's wig!!!

Do I remember a Very Special "Will &Grace" episode about this? Mind you, I actually never liked that show, yet somehow, I know this.

It's BEING ABSORBED!

[quote]The majority of men who have sex with other men do not identify as gay

That's because they're self-loathing morons.

They can deny it all they want, but words mean things, and if you're a guy who has sex with other guys, and not with women, then YOU ARE GAY.

If you're a guy who has sex with guys AND with women, then you're BI.

I don't have a lot of patience for self-loathing types that can't own what they do because they're so cowardly and terrified someone else who they don't even know might think they're one of "THEM" (whoever "them" is... Richard Simmons, presumably)

Get real yourself R12. Just because someone is in denial, doesn't mean it isn't true.

R35... no. Just... no.

Why the fuck are you bending over backwards to make it more complicated than it is?

Gay = Homosexual. Period. That's what the words mean. If you bring extra baggage to either word, it's YOUR fucking problem, and you should stop trying to force that same stupid baggage on everyone else.

R5: Good post.

"I work in healthcare and we can't say gay, EVER. We ask if you engage in sexual activity with another man. "

More PC bullshit.

"The majority of men who have sex with other men do not identify as gay."

Even more PC bullshit.

Believe me, Sweetie, if you were not "gay in the brain" you would not be "gay in the crouch".

Crotch, NOT crouch.

Goddam autocorrect.

I teach college students--I even teach them in a course called "Queer Studies" (we opted for that over LGBTQ, because I knew it would have to become LGBTQQIA+ and then some--and I am of a generation where the word "queer" was not a proud word to claim but a word thrown to hurt or denigrate, so I have to remind myself to use it). I'm also under contract to write a Queer Studies textbook, and have just finished trying to write about "queer language," and how complicated and difficult it is, so this thread is fascinating to me. I find my students use "queer" pretty comfortably to describe a very broad spectrum of non-heteronormative (sorry, folks, for the words!) identities, experiences, desires, and so forth. They also seem comfortable using other words to narrow or specify a subset of "queer"--gay and lesbian still seem fine with them, and more and more want discussions of both bisexuality (which surprised me, as I assumed bi- as an identity category would seem too binary for this generation) and trans* (as we seem to be referring to it these days) issues. I raised the "drop the T" motto (inspired by DataLounge, to which I make frequent reference in the class) and, while many agreed that T issues centered around gender identity and expression as opposed to sexual desire and practices, they seemed to think the "big tent" approach made the most sense. Oh, and many want to learn more about the "A"--not as in Allies or Asperger's, but as in Asexual/Aromantic/Agender. My head sometimes feels like it will explode.

What is remarkable, and, finally, pertinent to the thread, is how diverse the class is. I don't ask them to name their sexual orientation (because, I mean, that would feel too icky for me as a teacher to ask), though many will identify it when making a point. Those who do identify as gay or lesbian will often use those terms (I've had a few women who prefer the term gay woman to lesbian, by the way). They include Chemistry majors of color who participate in the annual drag show, a fairly soft butch who is going to marry her fiancee in a few months (her fiancee identifies as asexual, but homoromantic--let them sort it out), a geeky video game gay young men, yes, a handful of lesbian PT majors, an equal number of gay theatre major boys, and some who are there either a) their little brother in high school just came out and the parents are freaking and sister wants to be able to know more to support more or b) it seems like a cooler way to fulfill the diversity requirement than taking yet another course in feminism and race/ethnicity studies and it meets at a convenient time and I have a rep as an easy grader who shows clips of Bette Davis, Chita Rivera, and films with genitalia in them.

I've never been much of a joiner--and I have always carried extra weight--so I never did the bar scene much. I don't know that I ever had a real cohort, once school was over (yes, I had friends in my program who were gay, lesbian, and whatever). I'm certainly culturally a throwback (hence, beginning the course with the "Fasten your seat belts" clip) and I find the occasional Social Justice Warriors irritating mainly because they tend to take more air time in the classroom and are relentless in their policing of my and their fellow students' language and attitudes. I'm working on ways to handle it. In any case, I suspect most of them would scratch their heads at the opening question about whether there is a "right" way to be a gay man (which, to be fair, I realize is not exactly what OP said). I wonder if, with Grinder Adam4Adam Manhunt et. al., gay men are looking to satisfy their erotic desires in some places and social ones elsewhere. Other than my partner of 20 years, I've reached a point where I can say I only really have one gay male friend in town (though many professionally in other colleges and universities)--that may be a function of late middle-age and nesting and temperament.

I know: tl;dr, get a blog. Move on. But it remains a fascinating set of issues to me.

[quote]Believe me, Sweetie

Kind of speaks for itself. There is a gay culture and much of it is feminized bitchy, sexually competitive, materialistic and culturally shallow. It has to do with same sex attraction, but there are many other ways to be a homosexual men. Men and women born in the last 35 years have less desire to leave one uncomfortable locker room for another one.

Gay life can be tyrannical even for the young and beautiful, who are quickly abused and disabused of their notion of a place of acceptance. Most come looking for love and sex. Gay life is a minefield, there is no need to embrace it fully if it doesn't feel right. Call yourself queer or homosexual or same sex attracted. The rest is political brainwash and a collective behaviour that is fast becoming obsolete. There are more conformists and followers in any group than free thinkers or dissenters. Gay is a group. Homosexual is a person.

R54

It is true that lately "gay" has been used to mean homosexual in general, however, that doesn't change the fact that "gay" is a subcultural identity and it is mainly a subcultural identity born in the US and the UK.

Not all homosexual men and women embrace the term "gay" because of its subcultural baggage which is not representative of all homosexual people.

"Homosexual" doesn't have that subcultural baggage and only sticks to the definiton provided by psychology, that is: "a person who is sexually, emotionally and romantically attracted to the same sex" which is basically what homosexuality really is: sexual orientation.

As many say, all gays are homosexual but not all homosexuals are gay.

I'm just a regular dude who likes dudes. No subculture labels

There is only a difference between gay and homosexuality in self-loathers' minds, because they want to believe no one can tell they like homosex.

It really should read, Attracted to the same sex, but not feminine dudes who do feminine things. Thats the real statement.

There is another cultural thing going on here and it is that the use of the term "gay" rapidly spread among Enlgish-speaking countries because the term "homosexual" was associated with mental disorder.

In non English-speaking countries, especially in the American continent where Spanish is spoken, the term "homosexual" doesn't have that stigma so the word "homosexual" is much more used than "gay". The use of the term "gay" in Spanish-speaking countries only began thanks to the influence the US media has around the world with movies and sitcoms in which the "gay" is used to refer to homosexual people in general.

Put the fucking "self-loathing" term to rest, please. A person can be very happy and have a great deal of self-esteem and still dislike and/or not relate to things stereotypically "gay".

You know what you are, R66. You know. Starts with "s." Ends with "g."

[quote] [bold]dude[/bold] who likes [bold]dudes[/bold]. No subculture labels.

Yeah. "Dude" isn't subcultural at all, low-IQed one.

Self-loathing is accurate. If you are gay and deny the word then you are self-loathing.

I hate what some gays do, but they and I are still gay nonetheless.

Go to samesexbutnotfemininelounge.com, then, vagino R64, you gay, gay, gay, gay, gay piece of shit. Don't come here if being gay, which is what you are, makes you feel you're steeping in shame.

R68, not really. It's actually widespread and mainstream. Hang around people under 45 and you will know this

r71, turn on your sarcasm detector.

Like many words in the dictionary, "gay" can have multiple meanings and connotations. People should be able to self-identify as they want to, including staying in the closet.

Great point,R23; when sex is the only common denominator it can get pretty boring, and doesn't necessarily lead to deep and lasting relationships based on shared values.

I for one, don't tend to identify myself as gay but rather as homosexual if it is necessary that the world knows about who I feel attracted to.

I don't generally identify as gay basically because I am of the serious and shy kind and not so much of the happy flamboyant kind so "gay" feels like not representative of my personality. I also don't use gay to identify myself because I resent Christians because it was them who spread homophobia since day 1, they tortured us and burnt us in the past and as I sign of protest and disgust with Christianity I prefer to identify as homosexual just to point out all the suffering Christians have caused to non-heterosexual people to this day.

I am not a bitter person, but I like Christians to know they haven't exactly made our lives "gay". They still fight for our misery.

Now, I don't have a problem if other homosexual guy identify as gay. My position is kind of political against Christian homophobia.

[R60] Your post was spot on. What a fantastic point. The 'gay scene' can be tyrannical, and high school like. I often feel that the scene is all about gay men going through the adolescence they wanted as a teenager, unfortunately for a great many it extends well into their 30s too. The catty rivalries, and insistence on the importance of status, the shallow appraisal of certain types of image, very adolescent and when you get past 30 become very tiresome and frightening in some respects. It's like you only have value as a gay man if you are young and well groomed, after you hit 35 say, forget it you will be invisible, UNLESS you are physically hot. This is the same in scenes everywhere. It's gay law! Gay guys can be there worst enemies. We box ourselves into corners that we cannot get out of. When will we learn?

don't worry about it take it from me by the time you're old nobody will be talking to you regardless of what you call yourself.me

That's like saying you don't like black culture because you hate watermelons, tap dancing and jazz hands.

R77 Fantastic comment.

I'm attracted to the same sex but not to the "gay sex".

Dear Coleen: I'm gay and I like sex with straight men so why do their wives often ruin it for me?

Dear Coleen

Some men (myself included) like sex with straight men, but their bitchy, insecure wives often ruin what could be or has been a very good time enjoyed between two consenting adults.

Please tell me how I should feel about this. I am gay but I prefer to be with straight men. Coleen says

It doesn’t matter if you’re gay, straight or a hundred things in between, cheating is cheating!

Frankly, I can’t believe you’re angry with the wives and girlfriends for ruining your chances of having sex with their hubbies!

What were you expecting? Are you expecting them to think, “Well, it’s just another bloke he’s having sex with and not a woman, so it’s fine and he won’t leave me”?

You can’t have a go at them. You know what you’re getting into when you have sex with a straight married man – he has a wife!

If you don’t want that baggage and all that hassle, then you’ll have to get out there and find a sexually curious straight man with no ties.

Nate Silver described it as being "ethnically straight." Most same-sex dudes are "ethnically straight," especially those who don't identify as "gay." Bisexual dudes are especially "ethnically straight."

Nate Silver = self hater, as are all gay men who try to distance themselves from 'those bad gays'.

I think that there are two camps here. One camp believes that by emulating the mainstream and accepting heteronormative ideals the gay community will be more accepted and this will allow the community to move a few slots up the totem pole. To them "respectability" is the key to gaining acceptance from straight people. This is a commonly held belief that exists within many if not all disenfranchised and/or oppressed groups. The sad thing is that few people are concerned with destroying the totem pole and lightening that thing on fire, they are only concerned with not being on the bottom of the totem pole ( second to the bottom still isn't the very bottom I guess). The second camp I believe genuinely feels disconnected from the gay community because they feel like they don't fit in. Many in this camp feel that they've been rejected by the gay community due to things like their physical appearance ( like weight, skin color, level of attractiveness...) , age, political or religious beliefs, socioeconomic background, and any number of reasons. Due to this rejection many in this camp withdraw and/or self- segregate from the community and will label themselves homosexual, same sex attracted or same gender loving instead of gay because they see it as more affirming of their identities or self-descriptions.

Generally, people tend to have a bad opinion of the gay scene, right? Obsessed with youth, obsessed with physical appearance, annoying display of flamboyancy (attention whore?), etc.

I think that what we can call "gay scene" isn't necessarily for people over 35. It mainly revolves around very young men and generally leans more toward the effeminate side. I think that the gay scene tends to be very reductionist and excludes lots of gay people, especially when it comes to age and taste in music.

How about the many gay men and women who, for example, don't like stereotypical things about the gay scene such as pop music (Madonna, Lady Gaga, Dance music, etc). Is there a branch in the gay scene for gay people who like rock?

r83, I see what you are saying. But that presupposes that people are acting in a particular way or identifying based on political or social goals. No, most people are just being what they think they are or desire. Masculine mainstream bisexual and gay dudes aren't necessarily trying to assimilate or be accepted by straight folks, they are usually just being who they naturally are. Just because they don't find stereotypical "gay culture" or "gay identity" attractive or salient to their lives does not mean they are calculating in that inclination.

Masculinity, femininity, effeminacy are mainly influenced by external factor. Sexual orientation doesn't determine how masculine or feminine you will be. Sexual orientation and gender expression are not related.

Have in mind that in ancient times the ones regarded as effeminate were heterosexual men.

Queeny guys are fun but in twenty years we will all be looking back at the 'gay culture' and laugh derisively at all of the e.ffeminate men and bulldykes.

All of that was necessary during the 60's and 70's but by the time the eighties rolled around one needn't imitate the opposite sex to find partners.

'Straight' people know this, as most people feel same-sex attraction at times, although they may never act on it, and it's why they tend to classify girlish men and masculine women as 'trans,' because all of that acting out is no longer needed.

I just hope that the blended-in new generation of 'gays' appreciates the past and how hard the queeny guys and butch women had to fight for all of our rights.

What is a "gay lifestyle"? So many retards toss the concept around yet they are unable to tell us what the heck that means.

Ironically, the ones who use this expression are Christians who actually are living a lifestyle from head to toe. They change a normal way of living to fit man-made premises. Christianity is a lifestyle; sexual orientation is not.

The 'gay lifestyle' is one of free sex, parties, dildoes (for both men and women) travel, gossip, bitchiness, expensive clothes, hangovers, tight pants (men only), exclusion (of the poor and minority gays), film, theater, trends, vapidity, dance music, divas, and gourmet cooking.

Allegedly.

I resemble those remarks R90!

At least you admit it, dude

R90

That doesn't sound like a "gay lifestyle", you find lots of heterosexual poeple who do the same and much more than any sexual minority because heterosexist societies encourage heterosexual people to be sexual.

Touching LOVE is LOVE at any age

There are so many men who are gay but live a typical "straight" life.

The website Queerty is a perfect example of the "gay culture" that is a total turn-off to many of us.

1967

Enough of this "gay lifestyle" bullshit. Just say feminine activities.

A person's sexual identity does not require him/her to conform to any so-called "lifestyle."

The late comedian George Carlin was correct. "If you want to know what a moronic word [italic]lifestyle[/italic] is, all you have to do is realize that, in a technical sense, Attila the Hun had an "active, outdoor 'lifestyle.'"

[quote]There are so many men who are gay but live a typical "straight" life.

Yes. They get together weekly to lick clit.

[quote]It is true that lately "gay" has been used to mean homosexual in general,

Actually bisexuals have started claiming this word for themselves too. They think it is an umbrella term like Queer. As a lesbian I can at least use that sub label but what about gay men? I have tried asking these bisexuals what gay men are supposed to call themselves now that the word gay has been co-opted, but I have never gotten an answer.

Get ready USA marriage EQUALITY in all states is coming any day now :)

EQUALITY ~ USA

YOU----ARE----FAGGOT.

[quote]What if you're gay in the crotch but not in the brain? You don't listen to Barbra/Liza, dance shirtless in bars, fly a rainbow flag on the porch, get your taint waxed, watch the carbs.

This just means you're bi. Sex/crotch with guys but relationships/brains with girls. Welcome to the bi club.

Dildoes and Cher.

Yes, "gay" is more an American subcultural concept born in the US.

We should not be so ethnocentric.

I've never felt like I fit in to the "gay community", I'm not into casual/anonymous sex, leather/rubber, bathhouses and I want a monogamous relationship all things that seem to set me apart from most gay guys I know.

There is another controverted concept: gay community.

There isn't actually such thing as a gay community and the concept serves to have a reductionist view of homosexual people, it reinfroces the idea that w are a homogeneous group lacking individuality as the individuals we are, that we all think the same, we all like the same things and so on.

I prefer to say gay or homosexual people.

There is an expectation among committed "subculture gays" that every same-sex oriented person identify as they do and immerse themselves in stereotypical gay culture. I Have witnesed subculture gays interact with bi and gay people who are more mainstream and scold them for not being more into gay culture and identity. It's like they view them as gay equivalents of "Oreos" for being accepted into the mainstream.

Agree with R110. There is an expectation of conformity that is grating. I avoid the local gay scene for that very reason.

R79 There's nothing braver than straight men who admit they only like to have straight sex with gay men.

That could be because stereotypical gay men who obviously identify with gay culture are evidently the ones that stand out and look like a homogeneous mass, so, inevitably they become the pattern to define all homosexual men.

Intelligent people understand that, just like any other human beings, we are diverse. Sharing the same sexual orientation doesn't take away our individuality. And even sharing the same sexual orientation we have differences. Not all of us find the same things attractive in a guy both physically and phycologically, etc.

Yeah, the masculine bi/gay dudes fit into mainstream society and usually don't want to be viewed as distinct from their heterosexual brethren. They are undetectable from the mainstream to most.

Reducing people, especially minorities, to simplistic conceptions is very much a human trait.

Remember there are lots of heterosexual men who don't fit in the stereotypical portrayal of heterosexual men as hypermasculine. For example, lots of heterosexual men identify with androgynous subcultures such as Gothic or Visual Kei (Japanese). In fact, most of the androgyny you see in the music world has been created by heterosexual men.

[quote]But what did they talk about all night? Who was cute. Who had a big dick. Who is sleeping with whom. EVERYTHING revolved around sex. There seems to be a mad rush to show your gay bonafides when gays are with other gay men. Granted, I don't live in a large city -- I'm in Nashville -- and I'm sure it's possible to find gay men who don't feel the need to talk gay all the time, but here, sadly, they do. I have stopped associating with gay men down here, and don't have any gay friends.

So straight men don't like to talk about female anatomy and sex, Right. Surprise surprise men gay and straight like sex. They also like to talk about it.

OP sounds like your typical religious bigot. Those love to say "gay ifetsyle" even though there isn't such thing as a gay lifestyle.

The only characteristic that says you are homosexual in your brain is its wiring to react sexually and romantically to males.

Your behaviour, preferenece in cloting, taste in music, etc, those are not determined by your sexual orientation. Sexual orientatio and gender expression are two separate aspcets in humans.

Your sexual orientation (attraction to the same, opposite or both sexes) is something you are born with. Gender expression, taste in music and other sterotypes associated with "gay" are affectations, they are pretty much influenced by external factors.

How insightful Caitlyn.

Talking about the effeminate gay guy or queen, as some call them, I found an interesting book that addresses this topic telling that the effeminacy some gay men make display of is very much the result of imitating female behavior in order to attract other males. Basically, they repeat heterosexual roles and interactions where the feminine-masculine model is present.

This happens because we grow up in a world where there only sexual and romatic interactions we see around us is that of heterosexuals.

If we want to answer the question why most gay men are turned off by effeminacy this is it.

How is loving someone of the same sex a liftyle?

Religious bigots love to say "the gay lifestyle" when there isn't such thing, but ironically, religion is a lifestyle. You know, they all have a book and premises as to how mus must behave, think, eat, drink, etc. That is certainly a lifestyle.

I love Barbra/Liza, but I don't know if I want to listen to or see them dancing shirtless.

This is actually a very interestimg topic about gay culture and how representative is of all homosexual people that could be discussed in a different thread.

r21, I love you

I fall under that category. I've never been in a pride march, don't wear drag, have no desire to have gay sex in front of straight people or make a public spectacle of myself.

Once upon a time, Gay/homosexual is sexuality orientation, now it's just a 'label' . Many people called themself Gay because they like it or because it's simple. I blame for coming-ount movement of mental ill straight married "gay" men legion. Mow I stop call myself Gay 'cause i dont wanna involve with these guys.

If you are homosexual, do you have to dress a certain way, eat certain food, pray, read some sort of bible, etc?

Before throwing the "gay lifestyle" thing, please, define the lifestyle you are talking about.

R109, Society does lump us all together. I am not left wing, effeminate etc~!! I am sick of being labeled because of the VERY unlikable stereotypical jerks

I'm pretty conservative when it comes to sex but people assume because I'm gay I must get into all kinds of weird shit.

I'm sure those not into the "gay lifestyle" would still use Grindr and post on RealJock.

I get turned off by the effeminates who play the bitch. Most of the effeminate guys I know are the sweetest, most delightful characters I know. I love 'em. But Miss Thing, yeah, thanks for nothing.

On the other hand the fitness queens - your stereotypical Manhattan A gay - they turn me off like crazy. I went to high school, thanks very much.

What is the 'gay lifestyle'? Any episode of Queer as Folk.

Effeminacy in some gay guys deserves a different thread I think.

Just be masculine, bro

Isn't it ironic that the gay men who are most vocal about being 'masculine' are usually the ones who sound most like they've got a large stick up their ass.

If heterosexual acknowledged that homosexual people are just as diverse as heterosexuals are and if some homosexual people acknowledged that lots of homosexual people don't fit in the effeminate stereotype I guess there wouldn't be the need to talk about masculinity and femininity.

You know, putting people into boxes may also feel oppressive so naturally people who belong to a minority get defensive.

Only a tiny percentage of same-sex oriented men engage in the "lifestyle."

I struggle to see what a gay lifstyle is. I see religion and I clearly see lifestyles, but I fail to see a "gay lifestyle".

I think people say "lifestyle" to mean "gay culture," "gay sensibilities," "gay attributes" not directly related to being interest in the same sex.

I can not relate to stereotypical lesbians whether butch or femme. I have no tolerance for male hatred and ugly personalities. Where do I meet nice feminine gay women?

You do realize that if you go full straight lifestyle, it's the highest form of camp and you just fall back to square one?

R120, same with most feminine lesbians. regarding studs and butches

R142 Exactly, some lesbians will embrace a masculine personality because all the see around them is that girls are attracted to masculinity so the only way some of them see they can attract a girl is by behaving like males do.

r143, utter irony there.. I personally think the the gals attracted to masculine chicks are really straight with man issues

We had to adapt to the heterosexual world we live in. Probably, most of us once in our life subconciously acquired feminine mannerisms by observing how heterosexual guys react to the way heterosexual women move, speak, etc.

Femininity seems to work with guys, right?

I think some stereotypical gay men expect all bisexual and gay men to adopt a distinctive lifestyle and identity and get upset when they do not.

Actually, if you pay attention, effeminate gay guys tend to show their effeminacy around heterosexual men they find attractive in order to seduce them. They don't do it much around homosexual guys because it turns them off and that has caused this effeminate-masculine rivalry we know of.

I was reading a topic about this in a forum and one guy said that he is more feminine and that he thinks that in a relationship it is needed a masculine and a feminine (replication of heterosexual dynamics).

I don't think that is neccessary for homosexual couples (not that that doesn't exist anyway) because a relatively common attraction we share is towards some degree of masculine mannerisms, but we have learned that couples work with a masculine and feminine because heterosexual couples that generally work with this model is all we know.

Anyway, this runs through a spectruum, some like them more masculine, some like them more feminine and the same applies to heterosexual couples. Have you seen how many heterosexual couples have a very masculine and dominant woman? This kind of couples are mich more common that we think.

hogwash, r147. I observe feminine gay dudes acting like that around gay dudes all the time, and especially around women. They really flame out with their woman friends.

Lesbian in the crotch but really don't like the lesbian lifestyle or culture. No, I'm not a self-loathing closeted lesbo. Yes, it's hell to be an outsider looking in.

How many times has this come up on here??

Behaving affeminate or masculine is not lifestyle though and I doubt there is a gay lifestyle in any sense because there actually isn't any.

Sexual orientation doesn't come along with specific viewpoints, rituals, etc.

Religion is a lifestyle; not homosexuality.

r149, trust me you are not alone. do not let the raging dykes intimidate you. Go on dating sites for femmes seeking femmes and do not hate men

I often find I have very little in common with other gay men other than being attracted to men.

But, you're on a gay gossip site R153, so you must have "gossip" and "bitchery" in common with us.

Me Shaniqua

Well obviously I'm a huge fan of pointless bitchery but that's just because I'm a bad person not because I'm gay.lol

Not everythread on here is about gossip. IN fact, people complain that this site has very little gossip. A lot of threads on here are about sports, politics, sex, or even the weather.

Guys who make every aspect of their lives about being gay are tiresome.

[R158] Bravo!

I love bi dudes that no one even would even suspect have an interest in guys.

R160 I'm friends with one and in a long term sexual tension with him. Very hot. But respect him too much to be aggressive (not that I normally would be anyway).

I know many feminine gay women who feel so alone cuz they can't identify with the L word and all its connotations

[quote]Behaving affeminate or masculine is not lifestyle though and I doubt there is a gay lifestyle in any sense because there actually isn't any.

I agree, Im not understanding how one relates to the other, or why this discussion ended up being about masc vs fem.

R163

That's because Christians came up with the "gay lifestyle" just to vilify homosexual people without actually defining what that lifetsile consists of and how representative that is of all homosexual people.

When I was born, as thr homosexual guy I am, I didn't come out of my mother's womb carrying any holy book or manual as to what lifetsyle I was supposed to follow.

Inoric is that religion is totally a lifetsyle even though most Christians are selective of what they follow in the bible and what not to follow.

I do think there is a strong correlation between being gender non-conforming and living a stereotypical "gay lifestyle." I think of the "gay lifestyle" as one that is typified by aspects of gay culture, including what section of town you live, what type of clothes you wear, your integration into mainstream society, and entertainment choices. It is no secret that feminine gay men are much more likely to adopt stereotypical gay interests and ways of living than masculine bisexual or gay men, who tend to live a much more mainstream life apart from gay culture.

r164, you will love Mulsim rule

Sounds like Darren Criss

Gay stereotypes

I hate the film The Wizard of Oz -- how STRAIGHT is that!

What's this "lesbian culture" you gals disparage so much? Deciding which blazers to pack for LPGA tournaments?

R165

I don't think that embracing stereotypical protrayals of gay guys can be considered a lifestyle but rather a subculture. In fact, the gay scene is a subculture in which some gay men gather together according to common interests such as their tates in music, fashion and even behaviour (effeminacy the most common and visible).

Certainly, there is a correlation between gender non-conformism and being stereotypical. The gay scene was esentially created as a shelter for the effeminate gay man to feel free and safe from aggressive society that threatened them with violence.

Yes, and let's be honest. Openly gay men in the world are disproportionately non-masculine or effeminate in their presentation, demeanor, and interests, which reinforces the stereotypes. If more masculine or gender-conforming bisexual and gay men would come out, the old stereotypes would be undermined instead of reinforced.

Hmm, I think that is confirmation bias.

I began to live my sexuality when I was 20. During those years I strongly believed that most homosexual men were effeminate because that was the only portrayal of homosexual men I always saw. My first approached to other gay guys was through the net (dating site). I would usually look for older guys ranging from 30 to 45 years old. I never had sex with any of them, I was just experiencing being homosexual and meeting other guys.

After a time I began to meet guys my age. I met a lot of guys outside the gay scene. Interstingly, about 98% of them were average masculine like any guy walking down the street. At first, I was skeptical of their masculinity so whenever I met a gay guy I would try to test their masculinity. You know, stereotypes are so strong that you are convincing yourself that there are all kinds of personalities among gay guys.

When I was 22 I met a male stripper at a park. He was 24, very muscular and gay. He told me he loved dancing and working out. That same night he invited me to a gay club he knew. There is where I saw a lot of stereotypical gay guys of all ages. Yeah, all the stereotypes in there: drag queens, Madonna'musis, etc.

Majorities are always looking for visible traits to identidy and generalise an entire group of people. Your average gay guy is not stereotypical, he doesn't help to creat a contrasting image about the entire group so the majority will always look for those who stand out among the crowd. In our case, they set their eyes on the flamboyant gay guy because he stand out. Same applies to other groups of people. Depnding on where you live, probably, in South America black people are stereotyped as hip hop singers/dancers; Asian people are stereotyped as spiritual people; Muslims are stereotyped as terrorists and so on.

Stereotypes generally are not an accurate representations of an entire group because most of the time they are based on peculiarities, things that stand out so that the majority can have a contrasting and differentiating picture, them vs us.

R83, I appreciate that you made those distinctions. Those of us who have separated, self-segregated, and withdrawn from the LGBT community and no longer identify with the LGBT community don't necessarily do so with malicious intent. I've come to realize that a community is something that one should be free to choose and not something that society should be allowed to force upon you. Most importantly, a community should actually provide a sense of community and this is something that the LGBT community has never done for me. By attempting to be a member of the LGBT community I found myself trying to force something that didn't fit and I didn't realize how truly unhappy I was with doing that until I discovered the SGL community. Within the SGL community I found a true sense of community, acceptance, and genuine concern for my wellbeing. I wasn't met with attempts to deny and invalidate my reality because it made them uncomfortable. Instead I was met with people who experience the same reality and were working toward solutions for the problems that plague our society. I rarely visit this site but each time I do I see posts written by people I would never consider a member of my community because a member of my community shouldn't be someone who is actively working against me. When I attended my first Men of Adodi retreat in 2013, a retreat for SGL men, I knew that I had found my community as I had never experienced anything so supportive, generous, unconditional, and genuine in my life. It was truly life changing. There were no passive aggressive put downs, no shade, no hostility , it was only genuine support and love. Adodi is the plural form of the Yoruba word ado, which means homosexual or men who desire men. The Ado were revered leaders, sages, and shamans who were believed to embody both male and female spirits.

On the rare occasions that I've visited this site I've only lurked and have never posted; however, I felt that it was important to post this because I know that there are people here who currently feel the same way that I used to feel but are too shy or don't feel comfortable submitting a post ( or are too afraid to express it) and are unaware that there are other options. While this post is about my feelings and experiences as an African American SGL male, it actually applies to all kinds of people from all kinds of backgrounds who don't feel that the LGBT community offers them a sense of community. Don't try to force something that doesn't fit and don't sacrifice your own happiness in order to make others happy. Go out a find your true community or create your own space that addresses your specific needs, you'll be much happier when you do. I know that this post is likely to be met with harsh criticism but I don't care. I just want to encourage others to not settle for unhappiness as you only have one life and you deserve a community that accepts all of you, and you deserve to be happy. Below I will submit a link to the Men of Adodi registration page. Registration is closed for this years retreat but will open shortly for the retreat in 2016. Please consider it, it will change your life. Adodi also has a private social networking site and discussion forums that you'll learn about if you become involved with the organization.

I apologize for the formatting. I'm using my iPad and was unaware that my submission would appear like a wall of words.

Oh and the link.

I'm not part of what you'd call "the gay scene" but still I don't think it can be called a gay lifestyle because the gay scene is basically a scene in which people with the same interests, especially their taste in music and fashion, gather together according to their similar interests, but apart from that everybody lives a different life, there are no rules, no premises, no rituals, everybody lives just like anybody else.

That's why the "gay lifestyle" is a fallacious term invented by religious people in an attempt to vilify us all because of our sexual orientation.

Ironically, the people who came up with the "gay lifetsyle" nonsense are the very ones who live a lifestyle full of rules, premises and rituals.

homophobia by any other name still stinks

Out gays today are an embarassement

I don't listen to Barbra/Liza, or most pop music or whatever. But I listen to some. Its fine. I listen to other things. I listen to metal. I listen to a little country. I listen to a lot.

I don't dance shirtless in bars. In fact, I've never been to a gay bar or gay club. Its fine. I might do it later. No big deal.

I don't fly a rainbow flag. But I support it and its idea. I am open about my LGBT+ (yes, including T, trolls) support.

I don't get my taint waxed, but I do, once every few months, trim or shave myself for comfort reasons because I can get a little too hairy, eventually, for my liking. But it isn't very regular.

I do watch my carbs a little, and my diet in general, because I want to continue to be lean enough as I also gain muscle bit by bit. Didn't know this was such a gay thing.

My voice can be silly sometimes, and maybe softer than the masculine straight ideal(?), but most of the time, it is 'regular' and deeper and most who attach to stereotypes can't believe I'm gay from it.

What is gay lifestyle? We can specifically define it, I suppose, but almost no gay men follow it exactly. Myself, I'd consider myself closer to the gamer 'lifestyle' than the gay one, but that doesn't mean I need to hide from the latter or consider it alien to myself. R176 has got it, IMO. There isn't a need to fixate on exact definitions of a lifestyle - it even defeats the point of the word. Style, not law or cult or whatever. Just doing what you do.

Its been a task (albeit a mostly easy and passive one for me) to simultaneously show to straight people (who separate gay and straight a lot) that I can often be just like them in aspects, while showing gay people (who separate gay and straight a lot as well) that I often be just like them in aspects. It isn't quite so annoying as for those who are biracial, but yeah, there's always 'educating moments' with people where I have to let them know that I am myself, not just 'a gay person' or 'like the straights'. Just myself, with attempts of love and understanding for those of either 'side' (which I find often hard to regard as such).

Is that assimilationist? Maybe, but I also often respect straight people who sometimes don't want anything homosexual near them, and gay people who want their gay culture to be entirely its own thing. I just dislike strong enforcement of their opinions on others. I'm not for segregation 24/7, and assuming that a gay life means 'gay lifestyle'(tm), can be part of that segregation. Its great to make friends with those like you, but I find it *ultimately* better to make friends everywhere whenever possible, not *only* because they fit a checklist.

I enjoy Lady Gaga (really) over working on a car. Oh so gay of me. But wait, if you're interested in working on cars and teaching me how they operate, and you're friendly about it and open to teaching a newbie, then..lets go! Then later on, I can take someone's invite to see a Lady Gaga concert (hypothetically; I haven't actually gone to one), or maybe even invite the car-working friend, if he seems remotely interested. Or not. It shouldn't be a big deal.

There isn't a gay lifestyle, but the intention behind that expression is that just because you like the same saex and have sex with the same sex that is a lifestyle according to them christian fundamentalists.

I think the OP means gay cultural stereotypes rather than lifestyle. I'm not sure though.

I find most gay guys to be sex obsessed man-girls.

R182 What is "man-girls"?

Guys who act like slutty teen queens.

It's tough to be in the "gay lifestyle" when you're a dorky nerd.

It's empty and shallow!!!

It might not be a lifestyle, but there is something in common that makes some gay men say and do very unusual things, such as calling men "girl/she/her" or emulating sassy black women.

It brings me great pleasure to call another man "gurl"

r188, and if might give another man a lot of pleasure to punch you in the face, or worse!

The doorknobs that think that there is a 'gay lifestyle' are completely clueless.

r187, some? seems majority that are out do this!! it's the ultimate form of self loathing

When gay guys get into groups it tends to either become a campfest or overly sexual neither things I find appealing. I want a few close gay friends but I've never been a fan of crowds in any capacity.

I've loved documentaries since I was a kid.

Catfish

I have no interest in stereotypically gay things or identity. I am just a dude who is into hot dudes.

The sports queens on the DL definitely defy any gay stereotype I've known of. You would be surprised how many people are concerned about sports and what was the score last night. Or what athlete jerked off another in a Jacuzzi and who is in the closet and who is not......

[quote]I am just a dude who is into hot dudes.

Which means every single straight person you meet would classify you as gay.

I like the "dudes into dudes" who post on gay gossip sites. That's masculine.

With the Judy pictures, and the Glinda the Good Witch pictures, Joan Crawford...I mean that is all man. This site is all man.

R187 Subculture mentality. Fitting in. Just like gothics wear black, Metalheads let their hair grow long, Otaku do cosplay, etc. The gay scene is pretty much a subculture with its own rules and patterns, some fit in and some don't. It is all a matter of personal taste and sense of belonging to a group.

There are plenty of us that like sports, living in the country, don't know, or care to know, about Judy garland, Joan Crawford or whatever other icon we are supposed to worship. I like men and having sex with men but the other shit attached to gay lifestyle means nothing to me.

I like men, sports, the country, don't know or don't care about Judy or Joan and I LOVE posting in gay gossip sites specializing in bitchery, okay?

Queenbro out.

And you failed again, r202. Your brand of gay is no different than the trams agenda= be like me or die.

You are all man on this gay gossip site R203. I'm agreeing with you. You are ALL man.

Well, not all effeminate gay guys like gossip or acquire feminine characteristics deemed undesirable. Some love the bitchy personality, but most effeminate gay guys are not like that.

R205, can you please vote here?

There isn't much real gossip on this site. A lot of talk about the adult industry, movies, politics, bisexuals, and football. You can definitely come to this site, and avoid gossip.

R207, if you haven't already voted, please vote here! TIA!

jock bros are hot.

Out. Gay. Successful. Not intimidated. Since 1984.

Gay Culture is very unmasculine

Gay culture is not a lifestyle either.

If you have a partner, it's very easy to avoid "gay culture" entirely. You have each other for sex, you have your friends and you never need to go to a gay bar, log onto Grindr or anything else that puts you in touch with the mass of gay men.

But if you are single and you want to get laid, then you have to come face to face with that culture and all it entails.

Very different scenarios.

To talk about gay culture a new thread should be opened. Does someone care to open it for us all to discuss?

What is being implied here is that homosexual people live under certain premises and standards that make the way we live our lives different from the rest the same way religious people stick to the premises and rituals their beliefs demand that they follow. Certainly, homosexuality is not a lifestyle, we don't have rituals, prayers or anything of the sort that we must follow.

There are "professional gays" and "subculture gays" who are very distinct from mainstream society.

Reading some of the threads here on DL would make a lot of gay men not want to be part of the gay "lifestyle"

[quote]But if you are single and you want to get laid, then you have to come face to face with that culture and all it entails.

I NEVER get this.

Can't you ever just meet someone as you go about your daily life without fucking GRINDR and gay bars?

A gay man came to wash my windows a few days ago...he clearly wanted to hook up. I went to look at an apt last week, the broker was clearly interested in me & me in him....on & on it goes. Gay men are everywhere.

I never met my BFs that way. I was never part of all that. I still have gay friends and a BF.

What I understand by gay culture is what I see in most subcultures, that is, there aren't rituals or rules you must follow as you do when you embrace a religion which immediately makes religion a lifetsyle. Gay culture is just a collection of tastes in music, fashion and ways of self-expression (femininity) that don't come with a book of rules. This "collection of tastes" doesn't affect your daily routine, they don't demand any rituals, you don't have to change your ordinary life for certain rules. Gay culture is not a lifestyle.

I find it ironic and hypocritical of religious people to state we live a lifestyle when in fact the ones living a lifestyle are them religious people. And they even want to force their lifestyle on society.

[quote]It is no secret that feminine gay men are much more likely to adopt stereotypical gay interests and ways of living than masculine bisexual or gay men, who tend to live a much more mainstream life apart from gay culture.

Granted it's a bit of a silent movie but have you seen the gay of Instagram? Most of them look like fit, shallow automatons - not the image of the screaming queen with a boa and the lyrics to every Judy Garland song memorized. There's often a look... that village people thing of the seventies kicked it off and now today the metrosexual meets teen clothing. There's a whole new stereotype these days. It's probably more appalling and less authentic than the original.

R219, the old aesthetic was pretty appalling too. The effeminate male stuff was even more extreme back then.

Will the person who keeps yacking on and on about religion and "lifestyle" just fuck off already, we get it, you hate christians!!!! No one cares. Which is why you've repeated the same post over like 14 times like some fucking robot even though you keep being ignored.

@R218 and so on

Anyway, now that that annoying matter is out of the way. Lifestyle is the wrong word to use in this context. Subculture or gay scene/community would be better. There is in fact a gay scene, which just consists of men (usually fem or flamboyant) partaking in "stereotypically" gay activities.

Not being a part of that scene doesn't make you weird or strange. You're just being individual yourself. Now if you look at the scene with contempt then I'm forced to question if there might be a hint of self loathing or homophobia present OP

Just because you don't identify with that scene doesn't mean you should look down on the people that do, some people like Cher and Madonna and fashion and sex and Gaga and Broadway and so what if they do?

It's not looking down on it, R221, it's the feeling you are not a part of it and there's no alternative to it, no group of gay guys who like alternative rock bands, baseball and have mostly straight friends.

As alienating as it can be to be a femme gay guy, it's even more alienating to be a masc gay gay-- you don't fit in anywhere and you can't even be one of the girls, the way femme guys can with women.

R221 You have poor reading comprehension skills. Read a second time so that you can understand why neither homosexuality and gay culture are a lifestyle.

I live in a very rural area so there is no gay lifestyle here.

So many guys want community among same-sex oriented masculine males, without the girly or effeminate stuff of gay culture. They want to just be normal guys who happen to like dudes. No compromise of masculinity or manliness.

Well, heterosexual men comprise most of the population in subcultures that play around with gender non-conformism. Gothic, Visual Kei, etc. they are characterized by feminine looks on men. Visual Kei is the most androgynous of all to the point where if the guy has the traits it is hard to tell a man from a woman.

These movements are gay-friendly and proudly so, but still the majority of these gender non-conformist men are heterosexual.

Have a look at him. His stage name is Mana-sama, a heterosexual musician (guitarrist) and leader of the Visual Kei band Moi dix Mois

The "SSA" stuff is silly, but somewhere in there is a valid point: if you're a gay teenager whose world revolves around sports and cars and other stereotypically "masculine" activities and your friends are all straight jock/frat types (and yes, those sorts of gay teens do exist) - then the idea of coming out is fucking frightening.

It's not that they fear their friends will abandon them, it's that they fear they'll be left in a world where there is no one like them, where every other gay man is a Lady Gaga loving femme who speaks in gay voice and makes bitchy comments about other people's shoes. All these guys want is a guy who'll fit in with their group of friends but who wants to sleep with them instead of the drunk sorority girls their friends are hitting on. And they don't see that ever happening so they stay in the closet and have random hookups with other discreet guys off Grindr.

While the perception that all gay me are femme is obviously not true, that's all you see in the media, from the femme couple on Modern Family to any representation of the gay community-- it's all White Parties and drag queens and Madonna. Even a board like DL where everyone is calling each other "Mary" and talking about "caftan wearers" and "pearl clutchers" can seem like an alternate reality.

Many of them eventually come to realize that there are plenty of other gay men like themselves, that they are not the only ones who don't speak in gay voice or care how the Red Sox did last night. But a lot don't

I get that the world is not as hard for these guys as it is for femme guys, that they get to enjoy all that straight white privilege.

But I wish many DLers were a little more sympathetic to their situation.

Well stated, r227. Cool analysis, dude

Thanks R228. Don't have posting privileges yet, but when I do I will post as a separate thread. (If you do, feel free to cut and paste)

post more, r227

R229 How are you posting if you "don't have posting privileges yet"?

ahhh, good point

The "lifestyle" is what sets professional devoted gays apart from the excursion dudes who bang dudes.

r227, brilliant! Same for feminine gay women

Most men interested in the same sex want that part of themselves to be a minor part of their identity, and don't want it to threaten their masculinity. They want to be just like the mainstream bros and blend in with them. Lifestyle guys make their sexuality into a distinct identity that often separates them from their peers, especially with respect to masculinity. They are willing to sacrifice masculine male privilege to embrace gay identity

Most men with same-sex interests do not want that interest to define them or distinguish them from mainstream masculine males. They view gay identity As a threat to their masculine male privilege, and it often is

Just be a normal, masculine regular dude. Who just so happens to like dudes.

But the thing is masculine gay guys are not unique special snowflakes so they need to get over themselves because chances are they will meet another gay man that is into the same stuff that they like.

All they need to do is find gay sports groups, or gay comic conventions or gay internet chats about their interests etc. In this day and age of social media there is no excuse for "feeling alone" that is utter rubbish and nothing more. Typical of the generation everyone wants to be a victim even from their privileged ass position

The goal is not to be a "special snowflake" that segregates based on sexual orientation

R327 Good point.

Ghhj

Then you would be what we call bi, OP.

R226, Visual kei doesn't necessarily equate gay-friendly - rebellious expressions usually sop up supporters of the most privilege tier - without actually carrying the "(even) lower classes" for the extra trouble/dissent.

It's just a contempo style evolution, part of existing history of onnagata, Takarazuka. Overall patriarchy still rules Japan's social order and gender roles, pay gap, sentencing of sex crimes, etc.

A lot of guys feel this way

[quote]If you're gay, you're gay; liking Liza or not has nothing to do with it.

The hell it doesn't!

[quote]Gay = Homosexual. Period.

Webster's disagrees with you. Gay also means happy. It also means bright, sunny and cheerful.

Visual Kei is not a utopian world but even though most artists and fans are heterosexual there are also gay and bisexual artists and fans. Many VK artists have shown sympathy for non-heterosexuality in their attitudes, songs, etc ro simply it is not an issue. R243

At least you will find much less prejudice than you do outside the VK sphere.

Great post. I'm into guys but not into the gay lifestyle bullshit. I don't have a gay flag. I don't work retail. I don't vote for a politician solely on their views of gay marriage. I enjoy thinking for myself and become really angry that I'm accused of not being who I am. Who the fuck besides me has the right to say who I am?

So many men are looking for "nongay" "dudes who are into dudes," but why aren't they finding each other?

Many guys are like this

Many guys are indeed like this, and thank fucking God for that, because I would be spending my life alone if they didn't exist.

Steve Kornacki from MSNBC is one of these dudes. Although I'm sure there are many pathetic queens on here who would try to claim that he's secretly a big mincing Liza-loving queen when no one's looking (because that's how every gay man is). Right?

[quote] Why would I ever try to boil down an entire community into a yes-or-no question?

There are nerdy geek dudes who like dudes but don't really identify as gay/bi, and then there are dudebros, jocks, and down low brothas like this.

With all the barebacking PrEP whores around these days I'm starting to lose my attraction to gay in every sense of the word.

r5 I experienced the same thing a few years ago. I attended a dinner party in New Orleans with all of the gay Bon Ton there. Being from New York I thought I would be sitting down with the likes of Tennessee Williams, Lillian Hellman, and William Faulkner and listen to some fascinating conversations. The only thing these idiots wanted to talk about was their BMI and how to reduce it. This conversation went on for hours until I excused myself and left.

The dishy Nate Silver described himself that way.

Dishy?

Yeah, "dishy"? Is that sarcasm? But why?

R255, what does "Bon Ton" mean? To me, it was a slightly higher-end department store where as a young boy I bought my small collection of Swatch watches in the 80s and the finest Levi's in the early 90s. (My mom still shops there, and constantly talks about getting her "Bon-Ton card paid down".)

No, it wasn't really sarcasm. I have a major nerd fetish.

r258 Because you obviously never attended college or university. Poor dear.

Some days I feel lucky to be gay but others I wish I was straight and lately the straight days seem to be coming more often.

I have the best of both worlds. I am a straight male lesbian.

Oh wow

I hear you, OP. I'm passionate about stuff that few gays are interested in: computer programming and cycling. I couldn't give a single shit about celebrities or even who's sleeping with who. I don't find gay men very interesting, unless they're well traveled or thoughtful. I tend to get along much better with straight men.

r5 That's better than listening to an evening of who has the lowest BMI.

I think part of it, honestly, is intelligence. Most gay men are just not very bright. More than a 20 IQ point difference makes forming relationships difficult.

no homo bro

I think so many dudes want accessibility to intimacy with other dudes but want nothing to do with gay culture, stereotypes, and effeminancy. They are just bros4bros. Or bros4bros/chicks. Thanks to the internet and social media, it is now possible.

r268 Yeah, and watch how fast they get addicted now that it is so accessible.

Living in NYC and LA I was able to find gay men who were not part of what OP calls the "gay lifestyle." We're out there but we're not obvious, are often out with hetero friends and tend to avoid any sort of "gay" socializing because it's not our scene.

Being on DL, I've discovered that for guys in smaller towns and cities it's not that easy--that the other out gay guys are all MPs and there are a whole lot more closet cases.

Today, you can be selective. In the past, if you were only interested in muscular biracial bisexual football players from Minnesota, it was almost impossible to find a match. Now, you can actually pinpoint a match rather easily.

I read that young people, now, don't identify the term 'gay' with sleeping with the same gender. On surveys, it supposedly skews population percentages of 'gay' people. Researchers found that asking which gender you sleep with produces different results that asking if you're 'gay'.

What are MPs?

I'm attracted to men, but I don't have sex any longer. At 50, I'm in elder gay territory. It's not necessarily a choice, but it's where I'm at. Does that mean I'm not gay? Good. Because I'm weary of the gay and lesbian community. I'd much rather masturbate than to share my bed with another loser.

So many guys think "gay" means acting a certain way, talking a certain way, or hanging out in certain places. If they don't do culturally gay things and are integrated into the mainstream, they don't think they are gay even if they mess around with guys

r274 You're still gay but bitter. Cheer up because nobody, straight or gay, wants to be around a Bitter Betty.

MP = Mincing Prisspot R273

R274 - WTF? Are you disabled? Fat? Delusional? I know plenty of 50 year olds who are having sex all the time. I mean fuck do you all just only want to have sex with 30 year olds or nothing? Fuck each other and you'll have plenty of sex.

Hypermasculinity is just another form of drag, as is hyperfemininity. This thread is beyond self-loathing, it's fucking sickening; it reinforces the idea that you're not really a man unless you conform to the cult of jenn-durr's sexist, homophobic, and outdated ideas about how men and women should dress and behave. Say it loud: I'm gay and I'm PAH-ROUD motherfuckers! Give me Judy, Liza, Bette, and Barbra over any of that annoying, boring-ass four-chord butt rock (hell, I'd rather listen to Helen Reddy and Olivia Newton-John), and I think professional sports are dumb and douchebaggy while school sports take away much-needed money from the arts. And don't call me "bro" unless you and I have the same mother and father; it's a douche-word for the inarticulate and provincial.

You're why the fat orange fuck is president now.

gimme a break, nearly every single big city has a gay rugby league, or softball league. get the fuck out of your caftan closet.

So many men seeking men ads today list a litany of things that disqualify one from being considered because they are considered unmasculine. I saw an ad from a guy that said he was not interested in any dude who read books because was not masc.

[quote]I saw an ad from a guy that said he was not interested in any dude who read books because was not masc.

Remember what John Waters said: if they don't read books, don't fuck 'em.

[quote] gimme a break, nearly every single big city has a gay rugby league, or softball league. get the fuck out of your caftan closet.

R279: And all the men on those teams are as nellie as they get.

I must say the guys on those gay-specific sports teams tend to act in an effeminate manner. If you want a masculine guy, find one who is integrated in playing basketball or football with straight guys. Find a guy who shoots hoops with the fellas and bruhthas at the neighborhood basketball courts

Is there a gay gymnastics team?

Hmmmm

Is this 1975? Are we in 1975?

Have sex with whomever you want. Don't have sex with whomever.

Date whomever. Don't date whomever.

I fail to see what difference it would make or why it matters to you whether some guys date people who like Broadway shows. If you don't want to date those guys - then don't. Simple really.

Some folks seem a bit too caught up in how other people should act or whom other people should date or not.

However, your inability to find someone to date is really not anyone's problem but your own. Your desire for a particular set of attributes or behaviors is no more a concern for the rest of us than anyone else who doesn't understand the nature of free agency and the need to make compromises and tradeoffs in any dating situation.

The rest of the world (or even gay public) isn't here to satisfy your needs. It's not up to the rest of us to change to meet your requirements. if that leaves you alone, lonely, or married with children, it's really not any concern of ours. That's on you.

Bros4bros is its own culture or fraternity

I think everyone should be free to live their best lives but that being said the guys who make being gay the center of their everything are often highly annoying and tedious to be around.

I'm gay and out, and I think many of my interests are perceived as 'gay', and I don't care how anyone perceives that. There's a historical perspective that many younger gays don't have, though. When I first started life as an adult gay (1979) if you wanted meet other gay men, that meant going to a bar or club, for the most part. And, just like with hetero bars and clubs, it's a rather shallow, competitive environment. I now know that there were gay couples living 'married' lives all over the place, before it was officially legalized. At this point in my life, most of my friends are straight, since most of my friends are people I've gotten to know through work. And my friends include me in their lives, and I spend time with their families, and I'm accepted for the person I am. My best friend is my ex-partner, and though we don't sleep together, we're still affectionate and supportive of each other. So, by many people's standards, I don't really live "the gay lifestyle", but I'm definitely very gay, and I'm living my own gay lifestyle. closeted.

In R278's bizarro world there are only two types of men: dumb macho anti-intellectual grunting muscular jocks and fey flittery effeminate gay men who love Liza and show tunes.

R59. Posts like this are why I come here.

Thanks, teach!

Geez, I need to proofread better.

[quote]So, by many people's standards, I don't really live "the gay lifestyle", but I'm definitely very gay, and I'm living my own gay lifestyle. closeted.

NOT closeted. Definitely not.

Different strokes

This thread really is bait for closet cases to justify why they are in the closet without actually admitting they're in the closet.

Meanwhile, the first thing I did was check the date because this seemed like such a dated topic, but it's only from 2015.

I enjoy hanging out with other gay guys one on one but groups of gay guys can get annoying.

I see that the OP has triggered the snowflakes. Some gays are walking stereotypes and some are just men who happen to fuck other men. Deal with it.

The rise of the bros4bros is widening the chasm between the gay culture gays and the masculines

Nnnnn

Many agree

Thank god someone finally had the courage (manly Patton courage, not swishy Joan Crawford in Mildred Pierce courage) to raise this taboo issue for the very first time on the DL.

Fascinating

Indeed

We are all on our own journey.

If you lick dick, and you have a dick, you are gay. It isn't any more complicated than that.

R305, many men who are into men don't "luck Dick." Some only receive oral

"Luck dick," R306?

[quote][R305], many men who are into men don't "luck Dick." Some only receive oral

Then you don't deserve to "receive oral." You don't deserve to live, TTYTT.

It would be very bad dick luck to bring r306 to your bed.

[quote] Guys who are effeminate, or into drag, or fashion or decorating or whatever aren't "less than". I'm not "better than". That's all just bullshit. We're all just different.

You are right but those stereotypes lump gay men into the category of being like women and straight men, not all but a large majority, despise anything related to females or femininity. As long as any of us engage in the bashing of effeminate men or shit talk women we are just adding to straight male female bashing bullshit and therefore our own persecution.

You don't have to be into all the stereotypical gay things just don't bash it.

Hmmmm

Amen

That "lifestyle" is stressful, cruel and impossible to live up to...

Could explain substance abuse and promiscuity rates

People choose how to live their lives. Sexual orientation doesn't dictate the way you want to live your life.

This is one of the reasons why I don't like homogeneizing concepts to define a whole type of people. Gay life, gay culture, and the like are terms I dislike passionately.

Me too

Yeah

Many feel the same

IT is normal and widespread to feel this way.

But R319 posts on a gay gossip site. So much for not being into the “lifestyle”. Blocked.

True

You’re a brosexual

Gurl, these young hoes to today would rather sell their ass (and souls) to strangers on social media, rather than have a community

There was never a community, only a population.

Poster child for you lot.

the only "gay lifestyle" exists in the imagination of homophobes, self hating gays, or gay hating straights.

Gays all over the country act differently and do whatever they want

I really like what R131 has to say. I don't at all mind femmes, so long as they don't behave as a bitch or wench. I feel the same about women. I wish I could meet more nice femmes for friendship.

I am Never attracted to a guy who is not conventionally or mainstream masculine.

Same, R328.