Ashley Olsen diagnosed with late stage Lyme disease, 'having a very rough time'

Which one is the drug addict?

Doesn't she always look haggard and disheveled"

if they were sober, they would heal.

I condole her.

Nonsense. She doesn't live in Podunk. She lives in the NY metro area where Lyme is well known. If she went to the dr in the past few years complaining of vague symptoms, they'd have done a Lyme test.

She's either detoxing or in need of detoxing.

Why is it so hard to care?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Its the new "exhaustion"!

How trendy! How soon until Mary Kate announces she's a fibromyalgia victim?

Yet another disease that can mean endless scrips for pain pills!

Nice to see the publicists getting more creative these days, "dehydration" and "exhaustion" are so played out.

Don't you get Lyme disease from camping? When did she pitch a tent, fire up the coleman and get tick bitten?

I thought Mary Kate was the drug addict, and Ashley was the relatively well behaved one.

I know two people--a radiologist and a magazine editor--who died of Lyme. The only thing worse than the disease (once it infiltrates the CNS and sensorium) is the shitty way doctors treat people with this poorly understood disease. I'm grateful to live in a part of the country where it's rare. However trivial the Olsen twins may seem as people, they haven't harmed anyone terribly, have they? Maybe try to be more compassionate.

Oh, the Schadenfreude !!

r13 Those people were real sufferers. I believe it is real and poorly understood and diagnosed by the medical system.

I also think that a lot of people are claiming to have illnesses now to avoid scrutiny and responsibility for other lifestyle problems, including addictions.

Avril Lavigne and Lindsey Lohan have both claimed exotic diseases (Lavigne's was actually Lyme I think) after years of people seeing them wasted out of their minds at clubs.

It's possibly true, but I take it with a huge dose of salt.

What is her "work"?

The strangest part of this story is that this woman is considered a "fashion designer".

Oh, the hilarity that so many of these Hollyweird dilettantes think they can instantly enter any field without the actual experience or work required to enter said field. Just being creative in one field does not necessarily translate to another one.

The Olsen twits, Gwen Stefani and so many other performers are now suddenly fashion designers?!

When did any of these people actually attend design or even art school?

r17, It's a symbiotic relationship.

Often a celebrity's name is enough to gain entry into the industry because their lines will make money.

The real designers will be known by those in the industry and treated accordingly.

I also believe it's possible to apprentice by heading your own line, immersing yourself in the business and asking questions of the right people.

Both men, one a client's husband and the other a college classmate, lived in Westchester County (Larchmont and Scarsdale)--close to ground zero for Lyme. In the radiologist's case they thought it was ALS at first. Two harrowing deaths surrounded by personal and medical confusion. Since then if I even see a tick walking over my shoe I run to the doctor for a course of doxycycline!

At least I won't get shit for not making an appearance on Fuller House. Think quick, Mary Kate!

She'll say anything to get out of our 'Full House' reunion.

Has she checked if it's Chronic Fatigue Syndrome? Perhaps Dr. Budd is still practicing.

if her heroin was cut with lime, maybe.

Bitch needs to eat a sandwich.

Bitch needs to eat a sandwich.

Coming up next on ET: Learn about Kimmie Gibler's battle with the heartbreak of psoriasis!

I don't know about the celebrity in question, but I do know someone with Lyme disease. I had no idea how bad it can get.

I confess I didn't know you could actually die from Lyme disease. I googled it and it seems it's probably much more common than the statistics show, because it's seldom listed as a cause of death even if it led to whatever caused the death.

I'm embarrassed to admit that I didn't know Lyme disease could be fatal either. I thought it was a curable illness, but it just took a long time to cure.

You can die from it, but more commonly wish you could.

[quote]Just being creative in one field does not necessarily translate to another one.

In what field have either of these twerps been 'creative'?

What disease do they have that makes them dress like hobos? And what sickness are they riddled with that prevents either of them from smiling? And what condition do they have that causes them to appear both bored and boring every minute of every day? Surely their rampant anorexia isn't responsible for all of it.

is she the one dating the disgusting old french guy?

What ever happened to that girl on Real World Seattle who had it? The one gay Stephen slapped.

I still remember when they tried to break into the movie industry, adult roles, with some film and they came off sounding and looking like Minnie Mouse running around NYC in tutus.

Then one of them tried to go to college but lasted for something like one class before dropping out.

After they both seemed to drop out of public view but we're occasionally spotted as hunched over skeletons in heavy dour clothing at obscure media events. Soon after, Heath Ledger turned up dead in one of their apartments.

There has to be some sort of meaning that ties these events but I can't place my finger on it.

I used to work with a young woman who'd had a tick on her earlobe for like 2 days WITHOUT REALIZING IT [because it was tucked in between all her piercings].

Soooo gross!

I can't believe one of them was lucky enough to get to fuck Justin Bartha on a regular basis.

At least it's not Chikungunya.

How do you die from chronic Lyme? The ones who claim to have it are like the anti-vax fraus. Scientific evidence means nothing.

There's a disturbing lack of information and awareness about this disease. I did not know you could get it from arachnids. Can one in your house or backyard give you the disease? That freaks me out because I've gotten bites before.

All I know really is that quite a few celebrities have gotten the disease - Yolanda, Avril, now Ashley? Wow.

Lyme disease is caused by the same family of bacteria that causes syphilis, although obviously the vector of transmission is very different.

Like syphilis, one of the big problems of Lyme is that its symptoms can be incredibly varied -- for some it's fevers, for others, head or back or joint aches, for yet others, rashes... the list is very long. Some people have minimal early symptoms. So it's nearly impossible to diagnose accurately without a blood test, and unless you suspect it, the doctor won't order a Lyme test.

And yes, because it ultimately attacks your nervous system, of course it can kill you, like syphilis can.

It's not real until it happens to a gay man. Enough said.

That is my nightmare: a debilitating, painful chronic disease that few people understand or "believe" in.

People on this thread who decry the state of scientific understanding among laypeople in one sentence and then doubt that Lyme disease is real in another, make me decry the state of scientific understanding among laypeople.

I think these girls are OK. You're all just jealous. They made half a billion dollars before they were 21. They tried adult acting and it didn't work, at least now they're trying to work.

If Ashley wants to design good for her. At least she's paying for it legit with her millions. What else has she to do?

I don't like their bohemian style but they do, so what? It's still better than the overly tattoo'd, shit sagging pants wearing you generally see all over NY or Chicago.

What no one has brought up is the fact that standard blood tests for Lyme are up to 70% INACCURATE, which means if you do have Lyme you are very likely to get a false negative blood test result. The doctor will wave that result in your face and you will likely spend the next few years going from doctor to doctor trying to figure out what the hell is happening to you, as you get sicker and sicker. By the time you finally get a correct diagnose of Lyme, along with numerous other tick borne diseases which no one ever knew of or thought to check for, your life will be just about completely wrecked beyond repair. Another thing most may not know or realize is that Fire Island is rampant with deer and ticks, so whoever goes there should really learn some basics of what to look for with Lyme, this is not a disease you want. Many are bitten by a tick and never realize it happened.

[quote]That is my nightmare: a debilitating, painful chronic disease that few people understand or "believe" in.

Try a different hairstyle.

[quote] Don't you get Lyme disease from camping? When did she pitch a tent, fire up the coleman and get tick bitten?

You get Lyme disease from being bitten by ticks, that can be in any weedy or tall grass, or even on pets.

R45 is right. People whine about toxic insect repellants, but getting a tick bite is so much worse. And, you can pick up a tick by so much as walking through grass with shoes and socks on in the suburbs. Ticks are smaller than a flea. They only get big when they're engorged.

Slather on the repellant if you're going to be outside in tick country. Then check yourself for ticks. My uncle is a naturalist and he checks himself every time he comes back from a trip. If you live long enough in tick country, you'll hear of people whose lives are ruined by Lyme.

Japanese Knotweed cures Lyme.

Maybe she is just having an old fashioned nervous breakdown.

Do you have to take it early on r49?

Do men ever get Lyme disease?

Do you think that she screamed when the tic bit her?

Hi R51,

I really don't know, but I highly recommend Stephen Harrod Buhner's book "Healing Lyme."

I trust him, he has/had Lyme himself, and is a real and beloved herbalist.

R53 No, the tic bite felt just like a needle entering a vein. And she's used to that.

Nonsense, r54. The only thing worse than the idea of fake disease is fake herbal cures. Lyme disease manifests differently in each person, and as others note is not always detected in its acute phase. I do not have it but know 2 people well with later stage Lyme. Yes they have tried herbal remedies, they have tried many things. But the disease progresses in one, and remains chronic in the other.

Good. These two bitches have always ticked me off.

Stephen Buhner/Susun Weed/ Rosemary Gladstar and the late Micheal Moore are the herbalists I take the most seriously and tend to rely on for advice.

All of these people have been herbalists for decades, at least thirty years, have put in their whole lives in the field, have risked their lives living in rural areas without food/warmth/housing/medical care, and have a very intimate relationship with the plant world.

I am very wary of who calls themselves an herbalist, and refrain from seeking advice from anyone with less than twenty years of personal and full-time experience. Therefore, asking the sales person in a health food store or someone newly graduated from an herbal college is not recommended, although in time they may be helpful.

Excuse me miss, but I have problems of my own.

R56, I am sorry for your friends suffering but "trying' different herbal remedies ain't cutting it--of you read Stephen Buhner's book you will see how he outlines the treatment protocol that may take some time and differs for each patient.

I'm so sorry that so many view herbalism as just 'taking a pill' when in fact, it requires an entire reassessing of one's constitution.

I blame this on the New Ager's magical belief systems of instant cure-all's and Dr. Oz 'fat-burner pills.'

Stephen Buhner says that it may be transmitted through kissing or sex, which means of course that Ms. Olsen needn't be hiking or camping, just unlucky enough to have dated an infected person.

And that goes double for all of us!

[quote] Do men ever get Lyme disease?

You are fucking stupid.

I've been diagnosed with early stage poverty. I look and feel exactly like she does.

Do they both get to do "Fuller House" as one character?

Gives new meaning to the phrase: "You got it, dude!"

She fucked a spider?

That would explain a lot, R66

Is she the one dating Bennett Miller? or Sarkozy's brother.

W&W R65

I'd much rather discuss the Sprouse twins. At least they're twinkily delicious.

[quote]What ever happened to that girl on Real World Seattle who had it? The one gay Stephen slapped.

Irene. It sounds like she's better now. Her Wikipedia page (re MTV) is interesting. We all know The "Real" World is anything but real. Still, her season sounds ridiculous. MTV actually sued her for speaking out later about the phoniness.

I'm not shocked. They paid a fortune to (unsuccessfully) scrub the web of Dustin Zito's extensive gay porn past before his season of TRW.

Both of my parents are physicians R60. My friends did more than take herbal supplements. They spent years and small fortunes in intensive testing and treatment protocols, with herbalists and homeopathic doctors. Some small improvements that did not last. Herbalists are nut job charlatans, preying on the sick. They especially enjoy these hard to diagnose and chronic conditions, Lyme, Lupus, CFS, Fibro, Environmental disease, allergies etc. but don't hesitate to claim to cure cancer too. Sell your crazy book and fake science to the Olsen chick.

At least she'd doing better than me.

No way that wan little waif has ever been near the woods. Or even grass.

r72 in fairness, allopathic doctors also salivate at the thought of chronic, ill-understood diseases.

Everyone in the medical establishment, with a few ethical exceptions, makes money from treating symptoms instead of curing disease and/or improving quality of life.

I thought their design line was considered prestigious and well-respected in the industry ....

[quote] What no one has brought up is the fact that standard blood tests for Lyme are up to 70% INACCURATE, which means if you do have Lyme you are very likely to get a false negative..

This is false. It's 1990s internet messageboard information..

The new C6 Peptide ELISA is highly specific and every doctor in an endemic are also does a Western Blot

I'm reading this thread to hide from the picture of Demi Moore's bush in the "hairy Madonna" thread. I think that thing is an organism unto itself.

I spent a weekend at my partner's parent's cabin in Wisconsin last summer. When I returned home, I scratched the back of my head. It felt like I had a hard scab on my scalp. I picked at it, but it didn't hurt, so I continued to pick. I pulled off a large, live tick. I screamed like a little girl in a horror film, then vomited. I never want to return.

r77 it's navigating the medical system to get to that test that's the problem-especially if you're not in the epicentre of the disease.

[quote] allopathic doctors also salivate at the thought of chronic, ill-understood diseases.

No they don't

They do research studies using scientific method to learn about diseases and what might cure them.

Allopathic doctors are the ones who developed cures for TB, pneumonias, most hep b and hep c patients, rheumatic fever, syphilis, chlamydia, stomach ulcers, malaria, yellow fever, typhoid fever and dysentery, just to name a few.

They are the ones who developed vaccines for polio, smallpox, hepatitis b, diptheria, pertussis, chicken pox, tetanus, rabies, measles and HPV, preventing millions of deaths from infection all over the world.

They are the ones who developed HIV drugs which keep patients alive much longer now.

They are the ones who have cured cancers that were incurable in the past, and are working on cures for other cancers right now.

They are the ones who discovered bacteria, viruses, protazoa, parasites. They found the causes of disease and gave them names.

Go spend all the money you want on herbs and vitamins and lotions and potions from your homeopaths. Nobody will stop you. But don't try to discredit those who have saved the lives of millions of people who would otherwise have died without their discoveries in the past 100 years.

And don't project your ignorance onto the scientific community by claiming "everyone in the medical establishment, with a few ethical exceptions, makes money out of treating symptoms instead of curing diseases and/or improving the quality of life." There hasn't been one homeopathic vaccine or cure for cancer yet.

If you are going to camp or hike anywhere, make it in the west coast, where Lyme is almost non-existent.

But one must look out for crazies and mountain lions, and bizarre-behaving bears.

Ew r79. What did you do with the tick?

r81 you've mistaken me for another poster.

I in no way, shape or form advocate or believe in alternative medicine, particularly homeopathy.

However, I've known many people, including myself, who have gone through the traditional system with chronic illness. It is hell.

To their credit, many health care practitioners, usually nurses, have either steered me away from doctors, or told me after the fact that they [doctors]'don't believe' in most chronic symptoms and conditions.

They will just prescribe anti-depressants and bill you for follow up visits. It is worse for women than men.

From personal experience, many are incapable of admitting that they have no idea what they're dealing with.

Yes, so many doctors are astonishingly arrogant. If they can't figure it out in 50 seconds, they fucking gaslight you and you, the patient must be making shit up. Mentally, they're golfing in Palm Springs. I laugh when commercials advise to talk to your doctor before embarking on some fitness plan or whatnot. Bwahaha. As if they give a shit or have time.

I did have one awesome family practitioner growing up though.

Is this a rich person's disease? Thus far, the only people I know who have contracted it, or at least complain about their illness, are all rich. There's a foundation in Silicon Valley that only involves about rich people with lyme disease. No one ever talks about the poor guy, the gardener, etc. It seems it's a good reason for wealthy women to complain about doing nothing with their lives.

When my dad got tired of taking us on camping trips every year he suddenly developed 'Lyme disease'. The symptoms would only mysteriously surface if someone wanted to go camping. I also he think he wanted to be 'special' as this was the mid(?) 1980's.

Geesh - it's hard to miss Lyme disease terrority in the Northeast. And apparently that spread to Chicago and Wisconsin.

R13 ...curious..what was the history and time line of friends who died of Lyme?

When were they infected...diagnosed...and died?

My sister's husband's ailments flare up when there is some task he wants to avoid.

I had the fucking red bull's eye rash on my body as a kid--it was after we had gone camping.

I then had severe fatigue which my family interpreted as anemia, or growing pains, or nothing at all.

I was so tired and pale my family took me to a doctor and found that my iron levels were fine, and nothing was wrong with me.

I then suffered terrible depression from 12 years old and on.

I had trouble focusing on school work and became extremely anxious.

It didn't help that my parents were your typical 70's boozers who fought all night.

I then developed mood swings so severe that I self-medicated with alcohol.

I also have had some really terrible bouts of arthritis with severe swelling since the age of 18.

I have never been tested for Lyme because, thankfully, everything has mellowed out over the years.

That sucks r91. Glad you're better.

R92,

thank you sweetheart.

The two people I know with it are definitely NOT rich. One has MS and the Lyme hit her more mildly than the other, surprisingly. The other one had a rough few years but is much better. Still has it but the symptoms are managed well.

R77 who really knows what the truth is? I was sick and getting sicker for nearly three years, having several basic Lyme tests done, all came back negative. No one thought to test for bartonella, Babasia, or the others. I knew I had been bitten, but didn't have any knowledge of TBD's. I eventually learned that Lyme disease specialists existed, and made an appointment to see one. He saved my life. I still battle it, I get flare ups which disrupt my life in terrible ways. If I had been properly diagnosed and treated from the beginning I wouldn't be typing this. But that doesn't normally happen. Everyone do yourself a favor and learn about Lyme. Many of us go to Fire Island, Cape Cod, (I found the tick after a weekend on The Pines) places where it's a serious problem. But you can just as easily get a tick in your backyard or walking thru a park. It's a serious disease, but if you know the symptoms you can avoid what many people are now forced to live with.

The 2 landscape workers I know have Lyme disease. It is not just a rich man's disease.

Can't she rub some Dannon yogurt on it?

Lyme infection isn't bullshit. I hope what I tell you makes you use extreme caution. As many posters have said it has a lot of controversy and misinformation surrounding it and there's a lot of disagreement in the allopathic medical community about what is appropriate treatment and what determines that a person is truly cured.

I was diagnosed with Lyme Disease a year ago, thanks to the ELISA and Western Blot tests mentioned up thread. It was not a recent infection, per the test results. For a few years I had felt increasingly like I was shoveling shit against the tide, just trying to keep up with life. I thought it was just aging deficits for a long time, so I was relieved to learn I had a specific treatable disease. I insisted on getting treated by an Infectious Disease MD and not my PCP who, by his own admission, knows little about Lyme and other tick borne infections.

At the same time, I was treated for another infection called Babesiosis which is spread by ticks. Babesiosis requires a different antibiotic than the Doxycycline used to treat Lyme bacteria so I also took Azithromycin. I also had to take a disgusting liquid anti-malaria med for the Babesiosis.

Doxycycline is hard on your body, especially when taken for 7-8 weeks straight. Toss in the anti-malarial med. and the other antibiotic, Azithromycin, and your body can start feeling a lot worse.

But worst of all, during the initial treatment I felt like utter shit from the effects of the medications and was too weak to do much more than get out of bed to take a piss.

It's taken a year to start feeling somewhat normal some of the time, with a sometimes reasonable level of energy and stamina. My full range of activity has been seriously compromised.

Sadly, being infected does not give any immunity. And there is significant concern (and associated research) about whether the bacteria might not be entirely eradicated with antibiotic treatment.

Lyme is at epidemic levels in MA, according to the MA Department of Public Health.

Gotta love the way the elderly pornies get *frightfully* upset when their threads stray from the subject at hand -- literally. It's as if Rusty's dick is more critical than the Hadron Collider.

[quote] Coming up next on ET: Learn about Kimmie Gibler's battle with the heartbreak of psoriasis!

Actually, entitled, connected rich cunt Cara Delevingne has been playing the "heartbreak of psoriasis" card for several years. The "stress of her modeling career" caused her to have terrible psoriasis outbreaks, so she now plays at being an actor.

Meanwhile, she looks like a moldering Chuckie doll. Could this have something to do with her sudden flight from modeling??

"You guys are so mean."

I am on Team Mary-Kate anyway

Why the hell would you bump a thread from two years ago, and a boring one to boot, r102?

Are you one of the desperate trolls trying to push all the political threads around here down the board? Yeah, well, at least try to contribute something of some interest -- any kind of interest -- rather than this garbage.

BTW -- who's paying for all this trolling these days? Is it still Uncle Vlad, or has Donny ponied up in an attempt to reduce the impact of negative coverage?

This guy has been bumping old threads for over 2 hours. Unbelievable.

It's effected her lips for years.

What the fuck probably someone's first time new to Datalounge and it took awhile to get the right to post, so he is looking and commenting on things he likes

Why is it so hard for you fucktards to figure that out? You can comment on a thread before you can make a new one and the OP is still valid.

So fuck off loser.

And it's angry too

What is Ashley Olsen's last name?

She's a celebrity so it's very likely that her condition is being exaggerated greatly. People like that never have anything normal happen to them. Every illness they come down with must always be far worse than anyone else who had the same thing.

Oh please, my then 2 yr old daughter and I both had lymes we got living in the sticks of Long Island back i the early 1980....I got it from grooming tick infested dogs. Mine went undiagnosed for years.

30 yrs later, Im sure the arthritis I need to inject myself for every week is a result of that...do I bitch, nope. To me it's just a part of life along with everything else.

The bitch has money....go take care of it

Is that what they're calling heroin addiction this days, "Lyme disease"?! 😁 😂 🤣😁 😂 🤣

Heath Ledger had a very rough time as well.

R111 I had similar thoughts.

Not sure, R103.

Bump bitch has re-bumped this thread, showing her bumpbitchiness.

It's probably all the fucking gluten she eats. Or maybe it's that peanut allergy.

R116 doubt she eats much of anything.

American people and their love for over-diagnosis of every bloody illness while these illneses hardly exist in other countries. I'm sure these incomprehensible illnesses will vanish right after medicare-for-all is implemented in the US.

Hi, I'm Ashley Olsen, I'm a Lyme disease survivor/alcoholic/heroin addict.

So did she die from this agonizing fatal illness?

Or did the rehab take?

Nobody has cared about the Olsen Twins since 2005 so she has no motive to lie about this.

R84 and R85 you have no idea what you’re talking about. I am a primary care doctor. I feel for my patients, can’t sleep at night thinking about their pain and suffering and I’ve never taken a golfing trip. I don’t expect to diagnose or treat a disease in 50 seconds and I will check up on patients daily that I’m concerned about. You are disrespectful to the profession.

R120 that’s what makes the photos in this thread sad. This thread is like the last gasp of the Olsens looking semi-normal.

There is a big difference between acute Lyme Disease and chronic Lyme Disease. Acute Lyme Disease is a very real and accepted and treatable illness within the medical community. There is not the same consensus about chronic Lyme Disease - where there are vague symptoms years later and often no specific tick bite (acute illness stage). If there is a known tick bite and acute illness with symptoms that do not fully resolve with treatment that is known as Post Treatment Lyme Disease Syndrome - still different from chronic Lyme.

There is great debate about the accuracy of the tests for chronic Lyme and what they really mean.

Sure R121 and I'm a neurosurgeon who has climbed Everest and performed procedures on skis while chanting the Bhagavad Gita.

Oh no, Chronic lyme disease is listed here! Plenty of citations too. What is your disease du jour?

And here's another one.

Thank you, r123. I believe that there is a very strong psychosomatic component to things like lupus and fibro and of course Morgellons. I’m reminded of small children who get themselves worked up and can vomit whenever they feel like it. Not all diseases are the result of a foreign pathogen.

She's got the Avril Lavigne form of Lyme disease. (Drugs)

Not the Daryl Hall form of Lyme disease. (f's you up)

R127 Lupus shouldn't be in your list. Lupus is a recognized illness that is diagnosed and treated by evidence based and research driven healthcare institutions.

[quote]"When she does come to work, she looks haggard and disheveled. And she's often moody.”

That’s just the same old anorexia she’s always had.

Is she the one that killed that actor?

I suffer from psoriatic arthritis. My monthly injection costs $5,500.

Lupus is very real, and it can cause renal failure and death.

She and her sister are billionaires.

Apologies to the lupus people. I know it exists, but it’s one of those things that SOME people like to claim because it’s invisible and you can have good days and bad days. It gets exploited a lot.

R131 Doesn't the insurance cover it? That seems obscenely expensive.

How the fuck does anyone living in a big city get fucking Lyme disease?

Rich people go to the Hamptons and other country locations for weekends/summers.

It is there that the ticks STRIKE!!

Lies. She's never been outdoors except to go from house to limo to studio in either LA or NYC.

R127 Easy to say when you aren't the one suffering.

I was shocked she is only 28 then saw this is from 2015.

Which one is the junkie? Are they both junkies?

I can't picture her outside of LA or NYC. Did she get exposed in Central Park?

Does her pussy stink?

[Quote] Are they both junkies?

Yes

I don’t blame either of them for not wanting to go back to [italic]Full House[/italic]. That show was like a dirty diaper that never got thrown away.

Lyme disease is so 1990.

Not just a Full House, but a full plate as well.

Apparently the deer ticks sapped her soul. Look how lifeless her eyes are.

[quote] The source added: "When she does come to work, she looks haggard and dishevelled.

What work?

All that matters is that Mary-Kate is still with us so we can call her if something goes wrong.

R150 they’re no longer identical.

Code for "I'm abusing drugs and want an excuse to be a mess" -- is she still?