"Cybill"

I know many dismissed it as a tired rip-off of Absolutely Fabulous, but I loved Cybill.

I never missed it. Cybill had great comic timing, Baranski was delicious. Lucy and Ethel, Eddie and Pats, Cybill and MaryAnn.

When Peter Krause was on as Cyb's son-in-law, I loved how he would refer to her as "Mother Skeleton" and "Mother Harridan" and such (her name was Sheridan).

Cybill was good the first year. Once CS figured out that Baranski was getting all the laughs, she made the writers have her do goofy stuff. Ruined the show.

CS tried to be Lucy, when in fact, she was more like Mary Tyler Moore.

R3, I'm in the second season now and am seeing where the emphasis on Maryann was dialed down a bit.

This was around the time Chuck Lorre says he was fired. Hmmmm.

Cybill's singing was painful. PAINFUL.

Don't forget me!

Yes, the show had some zing in the first season, but you can clearly see the difference between an acting pro like Baranski (as well as some of the others) and a slightly amateurish performer like Shepherd who has some comic talent. Shepherd always seems like she's half-outside the character she's playing.

But at least she isn't as awful at comedy as she was in the ghastly AT LONG LAST LOVE.

I thought Cybill was great, and she should have won an Emmy for the show. Yet for some off the wall reason, humorless Helen Hunt kept winning for that awful Mad About You.

OP, see if the "CSI" episode written by Chuck Lorre is available to watch. "Two and a Half Deaths" from season 8. It stars Katey Sagal as an egocentric TV star who gets murdered. There are tons of references to both "Cybill" and "Roseanne" (which Lorre was also fired from.)

I seem to recall a quote from Baranski when asked about Cybill and "Cybill" where she basically said, "If you can't say something nice..." Would LOVE to hear her behind-the-scenes scoop.

I loved the show but is was so much better when Cybill played the "straight man". Mary Ann was just funnier.

I do not recall Cybill being called anything other than Mother Sheridan.

I recall Cybill being called "mother fucker."

By me.

Alan Ball was a writer for this show and says he based Annette Benning's character in American Beauty on Cybill Shepard.

The woman that writes Nurse Jackie was also a writer on Cybill.

I love the way Maryann pronounces "Doctor DICK."

I hadn't seen it in years, and watched a couple episodes last night on Hulu Plus.

The writing holds up, and the fact that it hasn't been in endless syndication makes it look fresh.

But I don't remember ever seeing a show where the supporting cast (not just Baranski) was uniformly excellent and the star so mediocre.

Cybill's character isn't the "straight" person (like Mary Tyler Moore), but she's also not even close to the talents of the rest of the ensemble (like Kelsey Grammer was on "Frasier"). It's a really odd performance ... best way I can describe it is that she seemed to have worked out how every line should be delivered on its own without thinking how they should go together as a whole.

Cry I'll is quite average at everything she does. Her ego and bullying diva behavior helped to pave her way.

R15 I'm not sure I agree 100% but you have a point. I felt the same way about Debra Messing in Will & Grace -- not completely hideous but somehow not connecting with the others, or the words on the page.

In fact,

Cybill = Deb

and

Karen Walker = Maryann Thorpe

Interesting r17! I thought Debra Messing could be just as funny as her three other co-stars. Granted, Sean and Megan got the bulk of the laughs but I considered the W&G cast to be the best sitcom foursome since I Love Lucy.

I do agree with what's mostly been said about CYBIL. It was a very funny show and I loved it but Cybil was definitely more of the straight person to Christine's Maryann.

Baranski is such a one-note actress. Her limited schtick wore me out just seeing her in NYC on stage in the 80s, and early 90s. She's just as limited on tv.

From the episodes I saw last night, Cybill's ex-husbands (Tom Wopat and Alan Rosenberg) had more simpatico in their scenes together than either one of them had with Cybill by herself.

She had a way of giving a line reading the proper inflections, but her eyes never changed no matter the mood, if that makes sense.

I wonder what her pussy looks like.

"Cybill" was a great show. Excellent cast led by Cybill Shepherd and Christine Baranski, who is fabulous.

I'm currently watching The Good Wife from the beginning and have a question..does Baranski have an accent or a speech impediment?

R23. It's allocution, honey. And a fabulous dresser to boot.

R24 Actually it's ELOCUTION.

[quote]It's allocution, honey.

Oh, [italic]dear.[/italic]

Agreed, R19. I've seen her in multiple stage performances as well as on film and TV and am baffled as to how people don't see that she has only one note in her.

I tried watching Cybill. Cybill's voice was too much for me to take for more than five minutes. The placement of her voice is really unpleasant.

I never understood how anybody could even look at Baranski and think she had nothing to do with the problems on Cybill. Everything about her screams C U Next Tuesday, replete with her Thindy Brady lithp. I can't even believe she ever got to play Mame. She's so snatchy.

A writer friend of mine worked on it during the second season and he swears there was a rule in the writers' room that no scene was allowed to end on a joke for Mary Ann.

R15 Kelsey Grammer is FANTASTIC. What are you on?

Wasn't Peter Krause dating the much younger Alicia Witt?

I could write a book….

Cybill already did and it's great. Nice and candid if, indeed, one sided. The stuff about Baranski actually changed the way I looked at her, true or not.

Love Cybill, limits and all. Just for "Last Picture Show" and "Taxi Driver" alone.

[quote]What's the old saying -- we had creative differences -- She thought she was creative and I thought differently

~ Chuck Lorre

R23 Ken Levine's take on Baranski on The Good Wife was pretty funny and spot on - basically, he was saying that she was acting as if she was on another show - which was true.

She stole scenes on Cybill but like others have said she's so one note and I just find her very off putting in general. Kind of like Wendie Malick who likewise so many people love. I did like her in Cruel Intentions, though "I'm not racist. I voted for Colin Powell." Best taken in very small dosages. Btw I saw her at a hair salon near me about a week ago. No story there just a spotting - she was wearing some kind of brown, fur trimmed puffer.

Please, only on this board could Deb Messing be compared to Cybill Shepherd. She was the MVP in many episodes, actually (see Last Ex to Brooklyn), but then again I always preferred Will & Grace to Jack & Karen. Or, I should phrase it differently, I prefer Will and Grace TOGETHER to Jack and Karen together, who - especially after the first couple of seasons - were ridiculously infantile.

So why isn't Cybill in reruns? Did it not reach 100 episodes?

Boy did Chuck Lorre have to deal with a bunch of nut jobs over his career - anyone think he may just be a glutton for punishment?

What did Cybill say about Baranski in her book? I do love Baranski on The Good Wife.

Fuck Chuck Lorre, he made millions off his "created by" credit on Roseanne, even though the show was obvious just an adaptation of her stand-up act. He also refused to let Jackie be a lesbian, as Roseanne wanted, in reference to her actual lesbian sister. It was Roseanne's show, not his, as he found out when she quickly got him fired.

As I recall, Cybill was rather generous about CB in her book. There were other targets for her pen.

I really like her on The Good Wife.

Cybill wrote that she asked NY friends about Baranski and was told that Baranski was "talented but watch your back". I don't think she went on to claim that Baranski actually did stab her in the back, though.

Did anyone see Joanna Lumley do a take-off of Baranski in the Mamma Mia movie? It was very meta, consdering Baranski played a version of Patsy Stone in Cybill.

I diagree with the assertion that Cybill's supporting cast was way above her. Cybill can be so strangely wooden for someone who's so experienced and with such a long career, but she's several notches above the likes of Dee Dee Pfeiffer. Tom Wopat's nothing special as an actor, either. And Alicia Witt may have been enjoyably petulant and superior, but she wasn't great either - effective but not first rate.

The problem was/is that Cybill -- and I speak as a fan here -- wanted to sing and she can't, she just can't. Much as I defend her as an actor, I can't as a singer especially the Cole Porter stuff she prefers. So she tried to sing on the show and Christine sabotaged it by staring ahead in the background, ruining the take. That kind of thing...

Plus the Emmy wars which Christine won and Cybill didn't. She and DeeDee didn't get along either, ha, but who cares, she's a nightmare. Read the book. :)

I always enjoyed Cybill singing the theme song.

I actually really liked her singing in the black and white dream sequence of Moonlighting ("I told you I love you now get out" - don't know the name of this song), but never any other time. The little Nice Work if You Can Get it ditty at the beginning of Cybill was cheeky and amusing, but ENOUGH. Her voice is just too flat to enjoy for any sustained period of time.

Her line delivery has always been pretty flat, too, and she never improved much upon that. It only works in certain situations - like when she played exacerbated on Moonlighting.

And from what I remember she made an entertaining Martha Stewart, but I haven't seen that in a while.

r36 mentioned Wendie Malick, who I just saw on a YouTube rerun of the show -- she played a nice woman whose Multiple Personality Disorder would kick in whenever she heard water run.

Shepherd allowed the guest characters to shine.

My favorite Cybill show opens with her and MaryAnne having drinks. There is an earthquake, and the lights go out. After it ends in the darkness you hear MaryAnne say: Either I spilled my drink or I wet myself. Then she goes: Thank god! My drink is still here. I'd give anything to see that episode again.

R40 I agree, I didn't think Cybill was noticably out of place compared to the rest of the cast. Christine Baranski was excellent but Cybill was fine. I remember in the late 90s there was a GoldDerby type site with some experts that had Cybill as the favourite for the Emmy one year. Her episode had her character struggling through the menopause but Helen Hunt won in the end.

After reading her book Cybill did have issues with Chuck Lorre and admitted her jealously over both Willis and Baranski winning Emmys when opposite her, but as mentioned above she was generous to Christine Baranski and noted her talent. I've actually never heard any of the co-stars come out afterwards and talk badly about Cybill.

Maybe a few of them realised that however bad Cybill allegedly was, they needed her name to be the star and get onto a show to put themselves on the map. After Cybill ended Christine got a couple of vehicles with her as the lead but they never took off. People knew Cybill Shepherd and she could lead a show on her name, but not so much Christine who is always best as the supporting, character roles.

For r45:

I thought the daughter on Cybill was the red head on That's 70s Show.

[quote]I thought the daughter on Cybill was the red head on That's 70s Show.

Laura Prepon was on "That 70s Show". IIRC, she's a Scientologist. She's now on "Orange Is the New Black", in fact, she now has black hair.

Alicia Witt played Cybill's daughter. IMHO, she was a terrible actress. I was shocked to see her on "Law & Order: Criminal Intent", same wooden acting. She sounded like a robot reading her lines, no emotion, nothing.

Alicia Witt has worked consistently since Cybill -- her style does not offend casting directors.

I loved Cybill Shepherd in Moonlighting but I found Cybill horrible. Before seeing it I remember reading it's supposed to be a sort of US version of Ab Fab and when I got to see it I was so disappointed. Mediocre to the core.

Can't say I was that surprised, though. It was obvious in Moonlighting that she's very limited as an actress, and without the chemistry she had with Bruce Willis the show would've been nothing. She was beautiful as hell but it was Willis I was lusting after. Well I'm gay so duh.

I don't hate Cybill Shepherd at all. I think she's had a great career and I've understood from reading other people's posts that she's a nice lady, although the Moonlighting's legendary fights with Willis painted her as a raging cunt. I wonder what Funny or Die style version of Cybill would be like. She might actually be great in that.

Alicia Witt's acting sucks. Perhaps the fact that she sucks is how she's able to get parts.

She was in that movie with Sandra Bullock and Hugh Grant. Always playing the smug, know-it-all.

I don't get all the criticism of Baranski being one-note, she plays two totally different characters on The Good Wife and Cybil, and she does them both very well.

"but it was Willis I was lusting after. Well I'm gay so duh."

Apparently vision impaired as well

I dimly remember that there was chatter that Baranski got a role for which Cybill was also under consideration - the absentee mother in the Bird Cage.

[quote]Apparently vision impaired as well

R54, Bruce Willis at his peak (around Moonlighting and Die Hard) was one of the sexiest motherfuckers I've ever seen on screen. Don't even remember how much I wanked thinking about him.

Bruce Willis peaked before he was even onscreen. He looked middle aged even in Moonlighting. He was never as charming as he seemed to think he was.

R57, I think he looked good on Moonlighting, but what REALLY baffled me is when he guest starred on Friends and the writers tried to make it seem like he was this impossible to resist guy. He wasn't attractive at all by the late 90s! The writers kept playing up the fact that Rachel was so attracted to him, as if he was that good looking--he really wasn't.

R44 I just watched that last night. I think after a long slog of playing boring (as she did on Kate & Allie) the Cybill episode showed Wendie's comedic side more...and she's been working ever since.

Bruce Willis during the Moonlighting era was just a giant mass of walking sex. He was a penis with legs. Hot as fuck.

I don't know what's happened to him since, though, as I've found him boring and unmoving in every other film. Except for maybe Sixth Sense.

I just re-watched the first episode on youtube. Gosh, Cybill really was such a natural beauty. And she definitely has star quality. Even when she comes across as wooden, she manages never to seem vapid or dumb.

I was struck by how feminist it was. Cybill wants to fuck that guy, but not as a boost to her self esteem. She wants sex to be for the right reason (pleasure). But it's done with humour and an acknowledgement that male attention is still something she wants, such as when she's at the gym and Mary Anne questions why she works out so regularly, Cybill replies "because my body is a temple... and men don't make passes at crones with big asses".

R61, I don't think Cybill is bad on the show. I think the redhead and the blonde daughter are beneath her.

R57, Willis was born in '55 so he was 29 or 30 in the first season of Moonlighting. He was pure sex to me at least up until Die Hard 2 in 1991 although I do remember still fancying him in Die Hard 3 and 12 Monkeys that both came out in 1995. Armageddon in 1998 was probably the first time I started feeling he's getting too old for me, although I guess seeing young stud Ben Affleck next to him sort of showed his age. Then again I remember liking him in The Sixth Sense and that was 1999 and he was around 43 when that was filmed.

Hard to say if he was hotter in his early twenties (because I've never seen any footage of him from that time) but part of Willis' charm has always been his attitude and somehow it was just perfect in his early 30s. I liked him just the way he was and never thought he was too old in the Moonlighting era. I still get a little stiff when thinking about David Addison in those tight brown pants with that insufferable smirk on his face.

BTW, how to piss Cybill Shepherd off: turn a thread about her into a talk about Bruce Willis.

I never saw the show. So yesterday at lunch I watched one on YouTube. There are a bunch posted. I didn't laugh once. It was pretty horrible.

The first episode holds up (haven't watched anymore) but I did find the laugh track jarring. It's been so long since I've heard one.

It isn't bad but the original AB FAB is so great you can't do a remake. It'd be like trying to remake Fawlty Towers or AYBS or even Birds of a Feather.

Didn't Bea Arthur do a remake of Faulty Towers?

I think that was R66's point.

She's awful.

Alicia Witt has been acting since she was tiny. She was Alia in the Lynch version of Dune and was Lara Flynn Boyle's sister on Twin Peaks.

On Cybill being a pain to work with, a friend of mine (and my parents) was the personal manager of one of the main cast members of the movie Married to It (no, of course you don't remember it - its release date was pushed back something like 2 years) spent a lot of time on the set and said she was super cunty, and anytime she had to excuse herself to make a phone call, she woud say it in this super beyotchy way: "excuuuuuse me, I have to make a PHONE call now."

Whatever, just one story to add to the dossier, but take it as you will.

A very Cybill Shepherd was one of the most beautiful things on earth in the film "The Last Picture Show". Sat there watching and pondering the irony of how a young woman with such looks was having a difficult time find a man to "do it".

I'm enjoying reading these posts while watching episodes of the show.

Was that Married to It movie the one with an all-star ensemble - a farce/caper type thing set in Europe (French Riviera maybe or Monte Carlo)?

Kevin Sorbo on Cybill. CB gets off a great line about Kirstie Alley.

Alan Ball wrote a character on Six Feet Under that was supposed to be mocking Cybill Shepherd.

I've heard that she can be difficult (and, no doubt, is), but I know her socially (have been to her house) and she's always been delightful in a non-work setting.

I watched some of the first season, which was pretty good, and then skipped to a random episode in the second season... Baranski seemed to be de-fanged a little and more snappy lines given to Cybill, but the worst was some contrivance where Tony Bennett showed up so Cybill could sing an awful duet with him. It reminded me of the latter years of Roseanne when she'd just pull any shit for her own amusement.

Never seen a full episode but I remember something about her going on and on about something looking like a labia.

Let's cast the Sumerian version of Cy-Bull

She had her labia painted... to look like a labia.

I do think she aged very well but the fact remains you couldn't get much prettier than a young Cybill.

I remember an episode where they went back to Mary Ann's high school for a reunion.

It seemed as if the whole episode had been written to put Christine Baranski in her place. He character didn't want to go to her reunion because she was an ugly loser in high school. And Cybill, the pretty winner, was there to help her.

And then, to top it off, Cybill sang at Mary Ann's high school reunion. Like that would happen. You know that chapped Baranski's ass.

God'll get you for that, R66!

Did Tom Wopat ever show his feets on the program?

Searching for the show on youtube reminded me that they changed Cybill's hair in the second season, which added years and made her look like a politician('s wife).

[quote] He character didn't want to go to her reunion because she was an ugly loser in high school. And Cybill, the pretty winner, was there to help her.

Well, Baranski did have a nosejob, didn't she. And she kind of looks like a resident of Whoville. And Cybill was a model from a young age, so the writers hardly had to pull the whole scenario out of their asses.

R86 that has to be in the top 3 of worst nose jobs I have ever seen. I don't even understand what kind of crack brain would create that.

R65 - I liked Cybill's hair in season 2. Maybe it's my monitor but Alicia Witt looked heavier that season.

[quote]I do think she aged very well but the fact remains you couldn't get much prettier than a young Cybill.

It was nice when models were the prettiest people around--I wonder why that changed?

Watch "The Ref" to see how slyly Baranski steals every scene she's in, even with La Davis. She's great.

Forgot to add -- there was a change in the credits in the first season... the credit sequence always was a pan up the Hollywood Walk of Fame, showing off the names of female stars (and Lassie) until it came to a chalked-in "Cybill."

The sequence had people walking across the sidewalk and a skateboarder, but for one episode I saw a man drops a cigarette butt on Cybill's name and mashes it hard with his foot. I wondered if that was Chuck Lorre's statement about his star.

R89 she WAS beautiful but I don't think she aged well at all.

Being built like a line backer didn't help.

You thought she looked bad on Cybill?

She looked great on Cybill.

Where is Christine Baranski's original nose?

This is a clip from the Brady Bunch episode where everyone swears this is young Christine (credited as Chris Charney), but Christine swears it is not her.

[quote] Where is Christine Baranski's original nose?

It's now serving as the sky above a ski slope.

R93 she looked fine, but compared to how she looked on Moonlighting? Hell yeah. And it only went swiftly downhill from there.

However, I've seen DLers say that they never thought she was all that to begin with. To that, I say....they're fucking nuts.

Cybill Shepherd, a woman of a certain age, is one of a handful of women in Hollywood who could be called a "good ol' broad."

I've always like her, and when I was in high school, I was mad for Cybill Shepherd and thought she was one of the most beautiful woman in the world. Cybill was also so gorgeous in "The Last Picture Show."

Thanks for posting R81. So pretty she deserves to be posted again.

Ann Landers had a similar bad nose job, or maybe her twin had it. All I know is one did and the other didn't.

None one touches No Nose Nanette.

I loved Christine Baranski in "Cybill," and I love her now in "The Good Wife."

I met Christine at a performance at Carnegie Hall last summer. She was an absolute delight, and chatted with me for a while. It was a delightful way to top off a wonderful evening. She was so sweet and charming.

Cybill was supposed to do Hello, Dolly in the regions a while back, but I think it was cancelled.

She was also supposed to sing I'm Still Here in the NY Encores! Concert of DL fave FOLLIES but they couldn't meet her quote. Her substitute... Christine Baranski.

Cybill had a little more meat on her in Cybill, but was still gorgeous.

I love how in her autobio she chalks up any man who didn't get along with her as "he was just butter cuz I wouldn't sleep with him."

I can't recall how she rationalizes the women-hate.

Btw, contrary to what my posts indicate, I actually do consider myself a fan in spite of everything. Like someone above said, she's a good old' broad - I like that about her and probably has a lot to do with her longevity,

I wish Cybill worked more. I've always liked her. Never see her any longer.

Id she still acting? Anyone see her even as a guest on those shows like SVU Crime Victims, or whatever they're called?

I like her too, r105. She was pro-gay way before it was cool, one of the few mainstream celebrities at the 1993 March on Washington. I remember her saying her daughter wanted to join her, but had the flu. And that daughter grew up to be a lesbian.

r106, every forgotten talent has a decent shot at a comeback in this age of premium tv. She probably still cleans up pretty good and would make a great diva bitch on some series.

[quote] And that daughter grew up to be a lesbian.

For about a minute, then she married a man.

[quote] She was pro-gay way before it was cool, one of the few mainstream celebrities at the 1993 March on Washington.

Very cool, I was there and had forgotten that.

(I remember Lily Tomlin sent word she and her partner were watching on C-SPAN and sent their support.)

As for Cyb, as someone posted earlier, she was kind of the same in everything she did...but no one is quite like her, and she is delightful if you like her, which I always have.

R106 -Cybill played Jennifer Love Hewitt's mother on JLH's show.

Alicia Witt played AL Pacino's love interest in a movie whose name I can't recall exactly. (Something about minutes - "49 Minutes"?). It was as ludicrous as it sounds - the age difference was impossible to overcome. I can't imagine anyone making that movie who thought the relationship plausible.

[quote]Alicia Witt's acting sucks. Perhaps the fact that she sucks is how she's able to get parts.

I'm going to use that some day.

Alicia's best work was as the porn star in "Cecil B. Demented" especially her speech about getting raped by the whole family under the Christmas tree. I love when she yells at Melanie, "You think that's funny?" and Melanie giggles, "No, I don't."

It's like the broken clock that's still right two times a day. Sometimes the most limited actors can shine in the right stuff. Or, like Ms. Bergen before her did with "Murphy Brown" and everything since, sometimes they can turn that wooden read into great comedy style.

It's weird but it happens. Never write any of 'em off, including Cybill who's due for her next comeback.

R112 it's 88 MINUTES.

I just started watching episodes on YouTube, a link that someone posted earlier. I was 15 when this show came out (in 1995) but never saw it. But watching it now, my God, it's awful! Just so badly written and subpar. It tries too hard for laughs, too. In the second or third episode, there was a scene where her dog was sitting on her script and she goes to great lengths to retrieve it, pulling the dog every which way. The audience (or rather canned laughter) was going crazy, but I just sat there stone-faced. I can't believe it was nominated for all those Emmys and Golden Globes and even won a couple.

"Cybill" came out when AbFab was at the height of its popularity in the US, and the consensus was that it was a VERY watered-down version, and nowhere near as funny.

Karen on Will & Grace was also "inspired" by Patsy and Edina, if not directly ripped off. Karen, however, could be very funny.

R116 I just recently learned that AbFab had only 39 episodes total. That's only like a season and a half. CYBILL had nearly 50 more -- 87!

"Cybill" was funny during that time. I liked Tom Wopat, Christine Baranski and Cybill's bathrobe.

The redheaded daughter wasn't bad either.

R116. You are mistaken. "Cybill" was not supposed to be anything like "AbFab."

The show that was compared to "AbFab" was the 1995 TV series, "High Society" starring Jean Smart and Mary McDonnell.

According to Wikipedia: The premise of "High Society" was similar to the campy British comedy series "Absolutely Fabulous."

"High Society" starring Mary McDonnell and Jean Smart was the American takeoff on "AbFab."

R119, yes, it was. Loosely. My god, you use Wikipedia as the definitive truth. Hahahahahaha.

r95 Christine Baranski in HS, she was really pretty!

I found it funny that Baranski was the only actor to not need a nose prosthesis to play a Who in that Jim Carrey GRINCH movie.

High Society was the American AbFab...not Cybill.

High Society was the American attempt to BLATANTLY copy AbFab.

Cybill wasn't really set up to do that, though there are similarities (boozy best friend, two ex husbands).

Didn't realize that High Society had Faith Prince in it...was this "before" she was "Faith Prince?"

R124 I've never heard of HIGH SOCIETY until now, and not having seen ABFAB but just relying on that clip, I agree with that one commenter who said that Jean Smart and Mary McDonnell should've played the other's part. JUdging by that clip alone, I take it Smart was supposed to be the pill-poppin lush, but Smart seems to wholesome for that archetype; meanwhile, McDonnell had some bite in her lines, which would've worked for that part.

[quote]Didn't realize that High Society had Faith Prince in it...was this "before" she was "Faith Prince?"

Don't know what that means, but she had won the Best Actress Tony for GUYS & DOLLS 3 years before (1992).

Then you answered my question R127. I didn't know if she'd made her name yet, obviously she had (at least on Broadway).

Audra Lindley (Mrs. Roper) played Cybill's mom on the series. She worked the show even though she had leukemia and died with a copy of the next script beside her bed...

As for Shepherd, she was on the front lines of the Diva Wars, with wannabe frat boys like Chuck Lorre creating, then ultimately demolishing, the female leads, even after getting fired. Since he and his sort won, now you have him driving real frat boys away, because all his shows ever were really about were nebbishes trying to sleep with blonde girls (currently, The Big Bang Theory but it is in all of his shows -- in Cybil, the blonde daughter and her father got shorted).

His sort kill anything they touch, so we really don't have TV as much as Jewish self regard that even the Jews who wrote it have a problem believing. hat's the only true dramatic tension in those shows.

[quote] in Cybil, the blonde daughter and her father got shorted).

That was DeDee Pfeiffer, Michelle's little sister.

There were a number of AbFabish comedies developed. Cybill was one. The idea of heavy drinking, sexually active women living a privileged lifestyle as the focus of a sit com would have been unthinkable before AbFab.

Just imagine if "Absolutely Fabulous" was more famous in the states than "Sex and the City"--think of all the lives that could have been spared! Think of all the New York apartments that would have less yuppies in them! AbFab is great because it skewers the type of woman that exists in Sex and the City, but it came out a few years before, so it was really ahead of its time.

But wasn't that the premise of the earlier "Golden Girls" r131 (except with cheesecake instead of martinis)?

Right now, I am watching the fourth season episode with Maxine Stuart guest starring as the first husband's grandmother.

Stuart was best friends with author Helene Hanff of 84 Charing Cross Road.

When Charlie Sheen left Two and a Half Men, Roseanne wrote a long blog saying Chuck Lorre copied AbFab when making Cybill, which meant Roseanne couldn't do her own version as she owned some rights. Also says she felt sorry for Brett Butler and Cybill, both of whom she saw crying and shouting at Chuck.

In hindsight, Cybill's show probably saved us from an awful Roseanne-made version of AbFab. Dread to think what that would have been like.

Roseanne's blog on Chuck, Charlie and Cybill...

My memory is that Roseanne owned the rights to AbFab in the USA. Her intent was to do an American version, but as close to the UK version as possible. It was not to be a vehicle for her. The problem was that none of the drink, sex, and drugs jokes could be aired on network TV at any time. That is what really killed an American AbFab. It was probably also another nail in the coffin for network TV.

The names that were thrown out for the US version of AbFab were Carrie Fisher and Barbara Carerra.

Several years later, Kirsten Johnson filmed a different pilot. I don't think Roseanne was involved with the latter.

An American version of AbFab never could have been made for network tv back then. The show was just too hard-edged, cynical and smart for mainstream US audiences.

Roseanne's AbFab was dead before High Society, Cybill and all the other imitations came out.

One of the big issues was the casual drug use and drinking. None of the imitations featured it as strongly as the original and Roseanne's version would have.

Things were different then. Remember how many years we were watching videos of AbFab before it finally broadcast here? Even PBS would not air it. Very wisely short pieces were placed in Vanity Fair and other publications about AbFab's popularity on bootleg video which helped the series finally get on to cable in the US.

R138, AbFab started in 1992 and was on in the US by 1994. It wasn't that much of a lag. Comedy Central didn't even censor the use of "shit."

Christine had no time for a friendship with Cybill, because she commuted back and forth from NY to LA to do the series.

At Monday mornings table reading, Christine would come in on the red-eye pretty tired.

Come Friday when Cybill & company would be taking their bows in front of the audience, Christine would already have one foot out the door.

Cybill would turn around and Christine would already be gone. Her assistant telling her Christine has already taken off to the airport to catch another red-eye flight back to NY

But during the week, Cybill would constantly invite Christine to her house for dinner, but Chris would always refuse,

Though Christine would say about working on Cybill

"It makes your life easier if you're on a happy set and everyone's working in a relaxed and professional way — but it doesn't always happen," she says, diplomatically. "And the bottom line is you're a professional. You show up. You do your job. I got through those years... and now it pays for my daughter's college tuition."

I don't doubt what Baranski says. But I think it's a very different experience when you're the star of the show. Baranski may have been the breakout star but she's never risen above supporting. And her working life has been easier in some ways because of that.

I can't believe some don't see the AbFab similarities. There's even a know-it-all daughter

"High Society" with Mary McDonnell and Jean Smart was a much more direct rip-off of AbFab. Jennifer Saunders said they were even looking into litigation for that one but the show was canceled relatively quickly.

I remember Roseanne had Saunders and Lumley guest on her show, so assumed she had the lock on the rights to the American AbFab.

Also, only Maryanne is a drunk -- an AbFab ripoff would have required a pair of needy nerds who got some money.

It's just as well that a US version of AbFab was never produced. The original is so unique and incredible, and nobody could ever match the brilliance of Saunders and Lumley. An American version would have been a big let-down. And like others have said, they never could have shown all the drug use and debauched behavior on American television at that time.

Eddi isn't a drunk in the same way that Patsy is a drunk. Eddi tries, and frequently does, get shit done. She has a career (a la Cybill). The difference is made very clear in the Bettina and Max episode. Patsy occasionally visits her office but like Maryanne (and Karen in W&G), she's essentially a lady of leisure.

Cybill was also the last screen appearance of Eileen Heckart.

I seem to remember that there was a recast. Was Peter Krause always the actor playing Pfeiffer's husband?

I think so R149 I don't think there was anyone else in the role.

R138

It was only 2 years? I guess it was because the seasons in British TV are short that we could watch all the episodes in a night or two that it seemed so long. And I remember that Vanity Fair especially made it seem like the show had been done long before.

But like you say, Comedy Central did not censor. However, broadcast TV back then certainly would have. That was the problem with PBS--they were lest strict on content than most broadcast networks, but even so some affiliates would not have aired it and Saunders wanted the show seen nationwide, so she held out until Comedy Central took it on.

It is hard to get at the stuff online since that was pre-internet but this was all written about in Variety, Vanity Fair, and trade papers at that time.

AbFab first aired in the UK in November of 1992 and dtarted in the US in July of 1994. here's a fun, contemprary article from the LA Times wondering if the Yanks would take to it. The Brits didn't think they would.

Surprise.

"Those snobby Brits kept calling this the TV show that would never be seen in America. Too outrageous for all those politically correct Yanks."

We showed them.

I had trouble keeping track of all the multiple personalities.

Loved the episodes when Morgan Fairchild guested as her rival, Andrea.

There was an episode when Cybill and Andrea are fighting on her deck in the background while action is going on in the foreground and Cybill tosses Andrea into the canyon. Andrea starts to climb back up, there's an earthquake and she falls back in.

I liked "Cybil"'s point of view. There was an episode when Cybil and Maryann went to a male strip show in Vegas and as the guy is dancing, they're both bored and Cybil says, "This isn't really doing it for me."

The guy did it for me but it was a nice change from shows that featured male dancers and had the levelheaded leads go crazy. (That "Facts of Life" episode is still disturbing.)

[quote] It was only 2 years?

AbFab has had something like six or seven seasons, but spread out over 20 years and usually six shows to a season (or, as the Brits say, series).

I like the British version of things. They make a certain amount, they're made, they're broadcast. They make more when there are ideas to make more and scripts to make more. I'm sure there are still shows that are shit, but it seems less of a total sausage factory than the US broadcast model, which either requires 13 or 22-24 episodes, every year.

Brit TV isn't as beholden to advertising and demographics like US network TV. Hence, all the good shows on cable.

R156

But between 92 and 94, there were only about a dozen episodes. So we saw them all pretty quickly, which is why it seemed much longer till Comedy Central picked it up. Sorry if that was not clear.

Sad... I forgot the last episode had Charles Rocket as guest star.

Ans Clementine, too.

Cybill's book is available on-line.

The stuff about Cybill starts on 137.

She really goes out of her way to take down Baranski. While she said she nailed the audition, NYC people had warned her to watch her back.

She paints Baranski to be cold, stiff and conniving.

link to book:

Cybill's first choice for the Maryann character was PAULA POUNDSTONE?

Didn't Paula play a creepy bank loan officer who "moonlighted" as the only member of Cybill's fanclub?

(Too soon after Selena...)

Shirly Temple was first choice for Wizard of Oz. First choices aren't always good.

[quote]The stuff about Cybill starts on 137.

The stuff about Cybill starts on page one. The stuff about "Cybill" starts on 137.

R165: Why don't you find something useful to do?

ooh! It's on Kindle for 99 cents.

SOLD!

It's free on her website.

It was between Christine and Sally Kellerman for the role of MaryAnn

Is that the whole book? Only 164 pages?

294 pages

I read her book and thought it was pretty good. Here is a link to a great interview she does With Barbara Walters. It's a very good, yet short, interview that shows all the reasons she is so likeable and unlikeable.

The part of the interview that is so refreshing is finally hearing a physically perfect specimen admit that all the doors were opened for her simply because of her beauty. I love hearing her talk about it so nonchalantly. Then she goes and compares herself to Katherine Hepburn and completely agrees with the Carol Lombard comparison.

The best part is when she tells people she's not cold, aloof, and distant. Not an blonde ice goddess. Nothing makes a cold person more cold than trying to convince others they're not.

If you don't want to watch the whole interview at least watch the first minute. It shows Cybill in her first TV appearance winning model of the year that started it all for her. She is fucking rocking a body long before anyone worked out. Her beauty in this early clip is absolutely breathtaking. She walks on that catwalk with all the grace of a Russian swimmer on steroids though.

Anyone else a fan of the underrated Chances Are? I love that movie.

I found a video of Alan Ball talking about how much he hated working on Cybill; how he did it just because he was a "whore" for the money; and how hard it is to write for someone who can't act and wants the show to be about how perfect she is.

What I found really annoying about her book is that she clearly wrote it with a thesaurus.

It was hilarious how hard she was trying to sound smart.

R174 he confirms that CYBILL was "basically AbFab in America," so that puts those rumors to rest.

I didn't think it was very good.

[quote] how hard it is to write for someone who can't act

He must be so happy that he stopped working with those kinds of people.

Thanks for posting the Ball interview. That TVLEGENDS channel is very interesting.

Ball doesn't give a fuck in that interview. Do Carsey-Werner still make shows?

I loved "High Society" with Jean Smart and Mary McDonnell...and Stefano, the handsome, kind of bitchy, gay Italian assistant played by actor Luigi Amodeo.

Whatever happened to Luigi and Mary McD?

Watch Jean Smart and Stefano wear the same outfit:

Mary McDonnell has starred in "Major Crimes" on TNT for the past three seasons.

Mary MCD had some bad surgery and did the Battlestar Galactica remake.

R180 why did McDonnell get second billing after Smart? McDonnell was a recent two-time Oscar nominee: Best Supporting Actress in the Best Picture winner DANCES WITH WOLVES and Best Actress in PASSION FISH. At that point, Smart hadn't even been nominated for an Emmy or Golden Globe. In fact, she didn't get her first Emmy nomination until 2000, and that was just for guest starring in FRASIER, and she's never been nominated for a Golden Globe.

R172: "he doesnt want my money! He wants my BODY!!"

Jayne Meadows Allen would walk away with an Emmy nomination from the show High Society

How did Alicia Witt act on the show?

Thanks for that Alan Ball interview. That bitch was DISHING on everything! I love it when people like Ball just go right ahead and tell the truth, it's so refreshing instead of the usual Hollywood bullshit.

R186, so far from what I've watched, Witt seems to be doing a Darlene Conner impression. I noticed that became the norm after ROSEANNE. Now, there's a smart-mouth, monotone, blase archetype in almost every sitcom.

R129 she also played Cybill's mother in "The Heartbreak Kid." I think they were supposed to be from Minnesota.

R188 - I meant how did she act on the set, not what her acting was like.

In her book, Cybill said she acted like a pouty brat on the set, but once she started dating Peter Krause (who played the sister's husband), CS rarely saw her.

R172 I saw that interview and also an interview in Oprah's last season where Cybill just said her looks opened doors for her and she was lucky as she didn't earn her beauty. Oprah says here it was the first time a model or actress was honest and said it was the looks that got them up the career ladder.

As for "Chances Are" that was mentioned I thought Cybill and Robert Downey were very good. It was a movie that was part of the 80s "body swap" genre after "Big" but it was better than most and actually quite moving and not played for laughs. Cybill and Robert were really good in it.

Here's Cybill and Oprah's interview

R813. I don't know the answer to your question about billing. However, I would guess that "High Society" was a television show, and Jean Smart had been very popular as one of the stars of "Designing Women," a well-known television series for many seasons.

While Mary McDonnell, may have received more high-profile acting nominations, i.e., Oscar, Golden Globes, Jean Smart was still more popular since she was a fairly major TV star for several years.

If Mary McDonnell and Jean Smart been appearing in a movie together, I'm just guessing that McDonnell may have gotten top billing since she was a movie star, and Jean Smart was not.

R192 it was originally called "Life After Life."

I LOVED that G-town TH.

That said, on what planet did any studio think Shepherd and Ryan O'Neal's combined box office clout was more then about 10 cents?

Nobody can take this classic away from her. I love her in this scene, especially the unflinching stare as she debates the date.

Baranski? Superb.

Sybil, was it?

True R194

Cybill said years ago an actor nearly raped her but she fought him off. The most common guess on the gossip sites was Ryan O'Neal, but it was actually James MacArthur from Hawaii 5-0.

James MacArthur is dead, now, I think -- Helen Hayes' son?

Eh r197 she says that about every actor with whom she hasn't gotten along.

In short, she has said that about every actor.

Remember when she told Craig Kilborn that Elvis wouldn't eat her pussy?

R199 Really? Who did she name? Never read that but read her book and she was pretty honest about who she had sex with - Jeff Bridges, Don Johnson, Charles Grodin, Elvis Presley. Said she and Bruce Willis nearly did but didn't. She never said anything about actors trying to rape her except James McArthur mentioned above. She didn't name him but it was easy to work out. She said it when he was alive as well I'm sure

R201 how did you deduce it was McArthur if she didn't name names?

My gaffe: At an early Broadway Cares Flea Market I accidentally asked Faith Prince whatever happened to "High Society"? I had watched it religiously at first and then it fell off my radar and I wasn't even sure if it was cancelled or not. Faith replied, "I can't help you there…" and then I remembered that her character disappeared without a mention long before the show did.

She was a nice lady, though. I'd expect Baranski to be HORRIBLE. And hey, Cybill showed up and spoke at the 1992 March on Washington for the gays.

[quote]Cybill showed up and spoke at the 1992 March on Washington for the gays.

Not even Lily Thomlin spoke for us then...

r204, right after that post I thought I overqualified it, Cybill was the only mainstream star there. Funny how just 20 yrs later, celebs love to show how gay-friendly they are, but back then only Cybill bothered to show up.

Oh I'm not r203, but I brought it up earlier.

Well, Whoopi was at the March on Washington in '87. On the front lines at the March AND spoke at the rally. That was the year it was INCREDIBLY risky.

By '92, The Cybill Year, Clinton was ascending, and the HRCF unilaterally decided the March was to be about Gays in the Military.

Hated the show Cybil.

Cybill was a great show. Perhaps its humor doesn't hold up entirely--not many shows do. But at the time, it was a lot of fun.

I wonder what Christine Baranski's pussy looks like.

I don't know r209 -- while I was watching, it seemed to me that they could rerun the shows as new and it would not be hard to mistake 1997 for 2014. Neither the jokes or the sets or the clothes (to most) would seem out of place.

R211, sorry, but Absolutely Fabulous slays Cybill. Cybill is just so uptight,she can't let anyone else steal her glory. This is the problem with all the seasons after the first one. This is the problem with Cybill Shepherd. Also, I don't find any of the jokes all that funny.

Who said anything about ABFAB -- I was talking about how the American "look" or its humor hasn't changed much since the 90s.

R211 is right.

DAMN YOU, OP ....now I've started binge watching 'Cybill' (free one week trial of Hulu Plus)

WTF ... all those commercials 'to keep down the cost of membership' ...$ 8 a month isn't bad I guess, but the commercials are a KILLER.

r215 for Christ's sake do a torrent. What are you, 110?

YouTube has them for free (with commercials that you can skip after five seconds.)

Wendy Mallick was on 'Cybill' in an episode where she played a new girlfriend of Ira's (Cybill's ex) that both Cybill and Mary Ann liked .... until they discovered her personality disorder .... whenever a water faucet was turned on, she developed 'multiples' ...

Ira didn't believe Cybill when she told him his new girlfriend was mental ...so Cybill encouraged Mallick's character to do a bubble bath with Ira ...

Episode ended with the couple in the bubble bath, which starts getting cold ..... so Ira goes to turn on the hot water. End scene.

Never to be discussed again.

Episode with a young Jane Lynch as Zoe's guidance counselor ....and Baranski macking on the late HIV+ boxer Tommy Morrison.

The show had a rough time in the last season -- it kept being put on hiatus in the winter, and was pulled from the regular schedule in April. The remaining six or eight episodes were burned off in June and July.

Still, the very last episode ended with a "To Be Continued" card...

Was Cybill perfect? No, but it was pretty damn funny with some good acting.

And it was a hell of a lot better than most of the crap on nowadays. And now we have 500 channels for every niche topic there is. Cybill is still better.

And Cybill Shepherd has balls. I like a good ol' broad like that.

Now into Season 2 and it's really becoming more of the "AbFab" clone people have said it was.

But wow, Peter Krause was so young and so hot here.

Alan Ball shows up in the credits now, as well as Richard Day (who made Girls Will Be Girls).

Thanks for nuffin', OP ....

I'M now in the middle of season FOUR ...

Glad to have a chance to re-watch it .... it's not a great classic by any means, but I've watched worse ....

Cybill must've started pulling strings as the show went along. Some of the storylines and dialogue would be considered 'meta' now (complaining about being in a sitcom and not getting any of the good lines, etc)

Baranski is still a big presence at this point, but Cybill must've demanded LOTS of opportunities to 'perform' by Season 4, where the first three episdoes featured a song (or a song and dance).

I just finished the chapters of Cybill DIsobedience that had to do with Moonlighting and Cybill. Poor Cybill sure seemed to be surrounded by backstabbers who had it in for her on both sets (snort).

Regarding Cybill, she did indeed say that she was warned to "watch her back" when it came to Baranski, and describes a cold relationship (which of course was all Christine's fault, in Cybill's telling). But apparently the last straw was Christine leaving the set during the final shot of one of the episodes -- Cybill was singing and Christine wasn't on camera, but Cybill was highly insulted Christine would leave her stand-in on the set.

As a poster above said, she didn't like Alicia Witt at all, and says she got worse and worse to work with as the show went on.

Interestingly, she also manages a dig at Alan Rosenberg, who played her ex-husband... in the middle of digging at Baranski's line-reading style, she says something like "Although Alan was a trained actor, he had a habit of rushing through his lines and swallowing the last words of his sentences."

Baranski's antipathy is well-known, of course, but I Googled Rosenberg and Witt to see if they ever talked about it. There was a 2003 AP interview with Rosenberg:

[quote]Then there was Ira Woodbine, the ex-husband of Cybill Shepherd's character on "Cybill," which became "the worst job of my life," said Rosenberg, when the actress took over the reins of the struggling sitcom.

As for Witt, there's a Reddit interview (condensed):

--

Is Cybil Shephard as crazy as she seems?

it was an experience hahahaha....

Enough about Cybill.....what was it like working with Christine Baranski? She was the real star of the show IMHO.

i LOVE and loved christine. and i agree. she was honestly one of my biggest role models- i was 18 when i started doing that show and she, to me, was everything a woman should be. the most wonderful mother, wife, person- so humble. and as an actor was and still is one of the most brilliant comediennes i've ever seen. i bow down to her....

How different were you from the character you played on Cybill and how have you changed personally and professionally since those days?

that's so cool!! i was different in some ways from Zoey and very similar in others. it's no secret that there was some, er, tension- on that set- so the thing that was similar was that when everyone was stressed, i was the only one that got to maintain a sense of not giving a sh*& haha. i didn't have to put on a bright smile if i didn't feel like it.

Season 4, Episode 10 .... another full blown song, the entire song ....a duet with Tom Wopat.

Poor Tom -- he tried and tried to have a recording career. He put out some albums, but only Dukes of Hazzard fans bought them.

I remember when Cybill was on Graham Norton (the one where Cilla Black called her a slut) and she made a point of showing the soundtrack to CYBILL - not only the case but the actual CD. I think it was only available by mail order or something.

I watched the whole series but weirdly I only remember her singing the title song and "That's Life" on top of a bar.

Christine Baranski as a suburban housewife with odd children:

R224 I know, always someone else's fault. That's what I meant in an earlier comment about her and men - not that she was raped, but anytime she didn't get along with someone of the male persuasion, she attributed it to their putting the moves in her and her rebuffing them.

She's just a little high on herself (even for Hollywood).

To be fair, when you look like she did, much of her time may have been spent avoiding unwanted suitors.

R230 or Michelle Pfeiffer, or Sharon Stone, or, I don't know, about a gazillion other Hollywood starlets (be they famous or wannabes).

I was watching the episode where her first ex-husband the stuntman loses his nerve and won't jump off a building for an action scene. Cybill arrives on the set and talks to the director, who turned out to be Peter Bogdanovich.

I guess they remained friends.

r226

He only got in the teens on the "country chart."

John Schneider had four number one hits on the "country chart" and even reached the teens on the pop chart, (The real chart) with songs like "It's Now or Never."

Wopat sang on Broadway a lot. I saw him in "Annie Get Your Gun", for one. So he and Schneider both have done fine. Compared to the (hotter, actually) cousins that replaced them, for sure.

Cybill says she and Bogdanovich stayed friends because she didn't try to get a penny out of him. He asked what she wanted and she wanted one painting they loved together. So no palimony bullshit. Instead she went on the road doing bad touring plays until she got her next shot. All reasons to admire her.

Well, that and the fact that she has always been an ally and a staunch liberal.

Wopat was not much to look at.

Now John Schneider didn't have much going on either.

They would've made a cute porn couple though, Schneider was nearly ten years younger.

I enjoyed Cybill a great deal during the first few seasons but not as much during the last one. I actually like Cybill and Christine. It is too bad the two of them did not get along. They really had great friendship chemistry.

[quote]I guess they remained friends.

Works out better that way.

I loved Ab Fab, but I could never get into this show. Alicia Witt was a charisma vacuum and I'm sick of Christine Baranski's one-note shit. It's annoying that she gets so much acclaim for playing the exact same character in everything she does. The only time I haven't seen her play a tart-tongued society woman was in Addams Family Values twenty years ago.

R241, so she is character actor. She is quite good at what she does.

[italic] Loving one who loves you

And then taking that vow

Nice work if you can get it

And if you get it,

Won't you tell me howwwww [/italic]

I thought it was interesting that Ball said each week they would look at the script for the "shit moment" -- the dialogue that Cybill had pressed them to include to make her/character look good.

I watched the beginning of the Valentine episode on YouTube and there were two "shit moments" where Baranski's character very awkwardly tells Cybill how much better she is with people and how they like her so much more.

I had to laugh, recalling Ball's comment.

Allan Ball was wonderfully catty in that interview.

It took me years to notice that Christine Baranski is a really lame one-note actress. I'm surprised her meager range is seen as such a marvelous thing. Perhaps it is because she generally behaves like a drag queen in her roles.

Baranski does what's she paid to do - do that bit you're good at, and don't outshine the stars.

I disagree. She's very good on both TGW and as Leonard's mom on TBBT, which are very different roles.

R246 ha I agree. I feel the same way about Wendie Malick.

[quote]I thought it was interesting that Ball said each week they would look at the script for the "shit moment" -- the dialogue that Cybill had pressed them to include to make her/character look good. I watched the beginning of the Valentine episode on YouTube and there were two "shit moments" where Baranski's character very awkwardly tells Cybill how much better she is with people and how they like her so much more.

That's funny. I'll have to watch it.

Last night I saw the episode where Audra Lindley played Cybill's mother (which automatically made it better than your average episode)... there was a scene at the beginning where Cybill was trying to learn her lines for a role, with Mary Ann reading the other parts.

At one point Mary Ann tells Cybill in exasperation, "I can't learn this part if you keep changing the lines!"

Not too subtle of the writers.

Were they all (or at least, Cybill) in denial about how badly the show was doing by the final season ? To end it the way they did was bizarre.

r250 again... I just saw a last-season episode where Cybill gets a role on a sitcom to the mother of a sarcastic teenage girl, whom she hates, and she whines to get some of the funny lines given to the teenager.

THe very first line of the show is Cybill on the phone bitching: "I'm dying, Mary Ann. I"m in this sitcom, and they won't give me any funny lines."

Given her comments about Alicia Witt, I imagine this was the writers getting some revenge.

In the last scene, Mary Ann is at a taping of the show, where they've given Cybill a stupid laugh line where she calls the girl a "buckethead." Mary Ann stands up, applauding, and says something like "Now THAT'S comedy."

Which interview was that, R245?

R242, "character actor" means they can play more than one character.

[quote]Cybill says she and Bogdanovich stayed friends because she didn't try to get a penny out of him. He asked what she wanted and she wanted one painting they loved together. So no palimony bullshit. Instead she went on the road doing bad touring plays until she got her next shot. All reasons to admire her.

Cybill and Bogdanovich were never married, so I don't see how much money she could get from him.

Plus, didn't he dump her for Dorothy Stratten, the Playboy model who was killed by her estranged husband in a murder-suicide?

R245 an interview he did for TV Legends. It was posted several pages back, but here it is again:

Palimony was in then and they lived together and he had all the bucks so she could've tried -- but didn't. They ended up being a nice couple in retrospect, though everyone found them insufferable at the time. (Like when she "accidently" said names of his movies instead of the nominees when presenting an Oscar). Even Cary Grant told them both to knock it off, nobody likes people being all gooey in love.

And, no, Stratten was way down the line after Cybill was out of the house. Early 80s. He also went after Stratten's sister after she was killed but that's a different weirdo story and Peter has many.

[quote]Palimony was in then and they lived together and he had all the bucks so she could've tried -- but didn't.

But that's my point. Why would she get palimony if they were never married?

[quote]And, no, Stratten was way down the line after Cybill was out of the house. Early 80s.

According to Wikipedia, Bogdanovich and Cybill were together until 1978; Stratten was killed in 1980.

[quote]Why would she get palimony if they were never married?

You do realize that palimony is not the same thing as alimony? Or are you just being deliberately thick?

R259, yeah, I was thinking of alimony. I've never heard of palimony.

Google "Michelle Triola Marvin."

You're forgiven, "Palimony" isn't a term you hear much anymore. It set the fear of God into rich Hollywood men who had avoided marriage to keep their $$$.

And I could've sworn "They All Laughed" was a few years later but I should know better since I have "Star 80" memorized (one to watch regarding Stratten, though Bogdanovich hated it, ha).

The musical numbers were payback to everyone who dissed [italic]At Long Last Love[/italic].

I don't know how to embed but yesterday Ken Levine posted about his "experience" with Cybill Shepherd yet again (a repost from several years ago).

He goes out of his way most of the time not to speak negatively of people so when he does, it's telling.

[R264] Where was this? On his FB?

R264 on his blog.

Here's the blog story, just scroll down a bit.

[quote]He goes out of his way most of the time not to speak negatively of people so when he does, it's telling.

He read Bill Cosby to filth.

It seems like Carsey-Werner has a habit of alienating their shows' creators after barely a season. They pretty much always stand behind their stars in these disputes. Always. Ed. Weinberger left [italic]The Pudding-Rapist Show[/italic] in a huff, as did Matt Williams from [italic]Roseanne[/italic] and Chuck Lorre from this show. Odd, isn't it?

I've no doubt Cybill could be a nightmare. However on that issue Ken Levine is talking about at least I can sort of see where Cybill was coming from. Her show wasn't a top 10 hit but was successful enough at the time Levine is talking about. His show was the lower rated and being on a more successful show might have helped so if Cybill wants to do it on her set and be lit right, just suck it up and hope your show gets a boost?

In the comments on the Ken Levine blog, a wondrous gift appeared - Cybill's book is free on her website!

Ken Levine post:

I've no doubt Cybill's a pain in the ass but what Ken Levine describes sounds like old fashioned star behaviour. CYBILL didn't need the ALMOST PERFECT crossover, so the smaller show was expected to do more. Cybill didn't want Travis to outshine her so she asked for more material. As much as that might be seen as unkind, it's business. It's not on a "Joan Crawford wearing weights in her outfit when Bette Davis had to lift her" level.

From Liz Smith's column, 2000:

NY POST...LIZ SMITH...

CYBILL SHEPHERDHow "baaaddddd" was she?'HONEY, YOU just don't know. Someday I'll tell. But it was bad. Baaaddddd!!!"

That's what the divine Christine Baranski told Foxnews.com's Roger Friedman about her experience working with Cybill Shepherd on Cybill's self-named TV series. Oh, Christine, you devil, tell us now! (Because you surely never uttered a word to us while the series was ongoing.) Cybill, a straight-shooting Texas belle, has always maintained that her reputation, on "Moonlighting" and "Cybill" was unfounded, that she was the victim of sexism -- if she'd been a man, nobody would have used the rhymes-with-witch word to describe her aggressive on-set behavior. There's probably at least a kernel of truth in this -- and maybe an entire cob. Though that wouldn't explain any tension with Baranski, who is very definitely a woman.

Frankly, I'll never forget watching Cybill on "Entertainment Tonight," talking about how she and Christine were not feuding, that women couldn't work together without people falling back on the old cliché, thinking they were at each other's throats, etc. She wound up by saying, why would Christine have any issues with her? After all, who even knew who Christine was before she, Cybill, chose her as a co-star and put her in the series?

Baranski, sitting next to her, remained sphinx-like. It was her greatest performance.

--

And I found this 1996 Liz column where she's interviewing a weeping Cybill Shepherd, who's upset about people calling her a bitch:

"I made her a star. I gave her the part. I work every day to make her part better. It's bull. Total lies... I'm tremendously generous, whether it's Bruce Willis, who was a bartender before 'Moonlighting,' or Christine, who had not been a star except on stage."

Bumping because Logo on Pluto TV is running a marathon. I'm watching one of the later seasons where Cybill has the Republican wife haircut and Cybill is always getting the jokes that would more naturally come out of Mary Ann's mouth.

Alicia Witt's character is wearing dark glasses indoors for no perceptible reason, which makes me wonder if Witt had pinkeye that week or something.

Shepherd was okay. Baranski was (and still is) fabulous. Also, I'm sad because no one is giving any love to the guy who played Ira. He was adorable!!!