Self-loathing... lesbians?

Look up Paula Poundstone on Wikipedia OP.

You can be out and still filled with self hatred (see (Portia de Rossi)

I don't know much about Sontag BUT it was a different time. Nobody came out.

Two words OP, Ann Heche

What about Fran Leibowitz? Is she gay or just asexual. She doesn't look like she'd have sex with anyone.

It's AnnE Heche r3.

Lebowitz is a lez, but she sidesteps around ever directly mentioning it in interviews. She refers to a 'person' she was seeing, and magically avoids pronouns.

I give a pass to anyone over 50. It was a different time.

Under 50, I don't know if I know of self-loathing lesbians. Maybe the opposite: self-aggrandizing lesbians. I met one woman who, within ten minutes of meeting her, railed against "dykes" who dress like men and looked like men and blah blah. Meanwhile she was the spitting image of Manny from Modern Family. I couldn't understand what the fuck she thought she looked like. Generally when I hear a group described as self-loathing I think, 'Not self-loathing enough.'

Are there lesbians who don't hate themselves?

Being in the closet is a form of self-loathing.

There's a self-loathing Lesbian here who posts from time to time about how she's only attracted to straight girls and that women who are attracted to other women are a complete turn-off to her. I'm guessing she doesn't get laid much.

So is being a fat shut in, R9.

I don't know about Anne Heche being self-loathing, she's certainly had a chequered history of mental health.

Portia Di Rossi oozes self-loathing. She always looks so tense she could snap any minute.

We had a troll who would sign her posts as "femme les" and bash gender non-conforming lesbians with extreme hatred. She was the exact mirror image of the "straight-acting" gay male self-loathers who bash effeminacy. Quite a loon. I think she was racist and a tea partier, too (big shock).

There are also plenty of ex-gay lesbians and closeted lesbians, as well as lesbians who wind up marrying men and claiming they're "bi" or just never talk about their lesbianism, when they're just selling out to enjoy heterosexual privilege and the unfettered mommydom that comes with it.

We've also had many Log Cabin lesbians over the years. Remember Lindy?

Yes, there are self-loathing lesbians. However I think lesbians are more communal and empathic than gay men which is why self loathers are seemingly more rare than self-loathing gay men.

That's why my first role models upon coming out were the lesbians at the bookstore I volunteered at. The mutual lack of sexual interest helped.

I've known several lesbians who around the age of 30 suddenly decided that they were straight and got married.

I too have known two women who 'were' gay and then decided to get married to a man in their 30's. Lightweights.

I'm definitely a self loathing lesbian. How can you not be?

By loving and accepting yourself, R17.

The conservative churches are full of them. The energetic "old maid" who runs the food bank or organizes the summer children's programs, the mother who hasn't been on a single date since the divorce, the married woman who never touches her husband, etc.

Nobody ever criticizes them openly because these societies don't believe women should mention or enjoy sex. Few of the women have any idea why their relationships with men don't go the way everyone seems to think they should.

I'm with R13 -- any lesbian who whines about "butches are gross!" is self-loathing in the same way as the gay boys who put "straight acting/straight appearing" in their personal ads.

R12 I predict a divorce for Ellen and Portia within the next year or two. Portia wants kiddies and Ellen does not. Portia's biological clock is ticking away. We'll just have to wait and see.

I portent free bread pudding for Portia as alimony.

Daphne DuMaurier.

Well I hate being a lesbian not because of homophobia in society but because I find most lesbians quite repulsive. It's really hard to find a quality, classy lesbian who doesn't have gender identity issues and/or mental health problems and/or substance abuse problems and/or weight problems. Those who are more feminine are either taken, closeted who gay until a man comes along. Being a lesbian with standards leads to complete loneliness and bitterness. I've actually become quite misogynistic because of this even though I'm a woman.

correction: closeted OR gay until a man comes along.

I'm the same as you, R17. I was going to reply that I am not self loathing, but I don't really find many other lesbians attractive. Many of them have mental issues and drinking/420 issues and a hell of a lot of them have weight issues (as do I, but I'm working on it). I have zero interest in sports or teams, very little interest in hanging out on lakes drinking, and even less in being in a sexless relationship, which so many of them become. And the bi women are usually more attractive on the outside, but fucked up when you get into a relationship.

I wouldn't say I'm entirely bitter yet. But I also know it is VERY difficult to find people I'm attracted to. I've been in a few long term relationships but they end when the sex does. Not sure why lesbians don't seem to want to be sexual. It's very hard.

Anybody talking about me?

Oprah is all woman- and I'm the lucky fella who can prove it.

r13, is the epitome of bulldyke!!!

I don't know anything about Sontag, but it was a different era. People didn't come out. I don't think you can judge it by today's standards.

self loathing lesbians mimic men

I call bullshit on giving Sontag a pass. She just didn't want to relinquish any of the privilege that coming out would have required. I'm only 10 years or so younger than she was--I knew plenty of out, strong well-regarded lesbians from that er.

What's this hanging out on lakes drinking business?

was Vanessa Redgrave in a play about Susan Sontag? I think I saw that. It was boring.

" It's really hard to find a quality, classy lesbian who doesn't have gender identity issues and/or mental health problems and/or substance abuse problems and/or weight problems."

You sound like a Fox News talking head

R24 where do you live? In LA and NYC that has not been my experience. the "my entire dating pool is crazy/inadequate" is such a tired trope. Don't you think straight women feel the same about most straight men, and vice versa?

If you consider everyone around you to be the problem, maybe YOU'RE the problem.

r36,where are the feminine lesbians who r not cold and humorless

Saying that most lesbians are hideous is not at all bigoted, it is simply a statement of fact. I have seen tons of typical lesbians over the years and I find them all totally unattractive. Are there any "normal", successful, attractive lesbians? I wish there were.

Why would Fran need to come out? It’s not obvious?

Not so much self loathing but if it is they do a bang up job at projection it onto others.

Nothing more sad than the closet case lez in the work environment same as the junior years lez who would go out of their way to torture straight woman they're secretly attracted to. People here gotta know at least one to two cases of this phenomena. Suddenly some tomboy from another grade or neighborhood would have it in for the straight but quirky victim they carried a torch for. In the workplace usually in a totally different dept. they find excuses to torment their victims. It would be like Ginny in billing being rejected in accounts receivable or warehouse shipping team because Romea is in a rage because she can't the straight girl. Boys did this to girls usually starting at 3rd grade but usually simmer by 10th grade, the latest.

I am a normal, sane lesbian who is considrered to be attractive. Personally, I do not typically find lesbians attractive and would never date a woman who labels herself bisexual. I have been in a few long-term successful relationships with women a lot like myself. So we do exist but are just few and far between.

I know plenty of lesbians who are attractive, presentable, and enjoy a good laugh. Perhaps a high level of self-regard and superiority is repelling potential partners....

A lot of them say they are non-binary and have “top” surgery (medically unnecessary mastectomies, that is) now.

Its a shame that some lesbians are tranisitioning.

Marcia Cross?

Didn't Susan Sontag use to go on and on about how sexy she finds young males?

R44. What? What the fuck? I have never heard that before. Big shock here in Toronto. Mastectomies?