Worst rhymes ever from musical theater

And all my merchandise is strictly kosher!

When you've thrown away all your old worn-out stuff,

(Hey, that's enough!)

Perhaps you'd like to model for my brochure!

People stop and stare, they don't bother me, 'Cause there's no where else on I that I would rother be. (I know, sacrilege!)

When other girls go walking On their arms they have a swell beau But whenever I go walking On my arm is just my elbow

How lovely to be a woman And have one job to do; To pick out a boy and train him And then when you are through, You've made him the man you want him to be!

Flotsam - Plotz, I'm

A new brain. Horrid!!!! Like the rest of that score

I think r4 is unclear on the concept.

The annie lyric is outstanding.

They'll all clamour (clama) for my drama.

Kid, my heart ain't made of marble

But your rhythm's really horr'ble

-- "If a Girl Isn't Pretty" from Funny Girl

R7=Martin Charnin

The sun comes up.

I think about you.

The coffee cup.

I think about you.

Sweet revenge requires planning; I've done all I can

Now it's your chance to prove you're a stud.

It's a simple little gig, you help me kill a pig

And then I've got some plans for the blood.

ENSEMBLE:

Chop! Kill the pig! Pig, pig! Kill, Kill! Kill, Kill! We'll make 'em bleed. Here's his blood! Blood, blood! Oooh! Blood! Kill the pig, make him bleed! Let's get the blood, that's all we need! Out for blood! Ooh, we gotta kill the pig, make him bleed! Let's get the blood, that's all we need! Out for blood!

Kill! Kill! Kill the pig.

I can't retype the whole libretto, so... let's just say all of Miss Saigon.

R1, at least it rhymes well in British English.

Sunset Boulevard takes place in Los Angeles.

From Wicked: Don't be offended by my frank analysis Think of it as personality dialysis Now that I've chosen to become a pal, a sis- ter and adviser There's nobody wiser

And I know it's sacrilege, but the "raisins/liaisins!" bit from A Little Night Music is stupid IMO.

Every time we looked around

There he was, that hairy hound

From Budapest!

Never leaving us alone,

Never have I ever known

A ruder pest!

R16 Actually, I've always thought that rhyme (analysis/dialysis) was pretty clever.

"analysis/dialysis" is the very definition of forced.

[quote] Sunset Boulevard takes place in Los Angeles.

The musical was created by a Brit and originated in London (did it not?).

R20: So if I write a play about Queen Elizabeth I, while I'm in California, she should be constantly saying, "Totally awesome, dude!" to Sir Robert?

R1, I saw the about-to-be-released new version of Annie, where they make a joke out of not referring to the kids as orphans, so in the new version of "It's a hard knock life" the verse is something like "No one cares for you a smidge when you are a foster kid." Don't think that will appease you.

What R21 said (and said very well).

Sunset Boulevard is a very, very main drag [italic]in Los Angeles, CA, USA[/italic].

How about the rewrite for the upcoming Annie movie?

No one cares for you a bit

When you're a foster kid!

R24, see R22.

[quote]The musical was created by a Brit and originated in London (did it not?).

Did it! Yet that [bold]absolutely[/bold] does not excuse the rhyme.

If they were going to write a musical set in 1950s America, they should have done a little research as to how Americans talk.

Who says the "brochure" lyric in Sunset?

A salesman from a men's shop.

Loud or lewd or la-di-da-dy

Everything to everybody!

In addition to the orphanage/foster kid thing in the new version of Annie, they felt the need to add an embarrassing dialogue preamble to explain what a"hard-knock" life is. Because I guess kids, even if they haven't previously heard the phrase, are too fucking stupid to figure it out from the context.

LA's changed a lot over the years

since those brave gold rush pioneers

came in their creaky covered wagons

far as they could go, end of the line

their dreams were yours, their dreams were mine

but in those dreams were hidden dragons.

Sondheim supposedly hated having rhymed "Chino" with "the Maria we know."

Cole Porter rhymed "I lately did a picture at the bottom of the sea/I wrestled with an octopus and licked an anchovy" AnchoVEE?

Ira Gershwin confessed to regretting the rhyme in the verse of "Could You Use Me?" He rhymed "Easterner" with "be sterner."

Coward also rhymed "catastrophe" with "atrophy." It's either catatrophe or astrophe.

Fred Ebb: "If you had a secret/You bet I would keep it."

"Mr. Cellophane/should have been my name."

Tra la! It's May!

The month of yes-you-may.

Didn't Jay-Z sample "it's a hard knock life"?

So I would think many in the audience would already be familiar with it.

"To kill outside St. Paul's Requires a lot of balls."

"There are bridges you've crossed You didn't know you've crossed Until you've crossed."

"The Earth will wave With corn. The great fly choir Will mourn. And mares will neigh With stallions that they mate Foals they've born."

"Nessa? Uh, Nessa, I've got something to confess: A Reason why... well, Why I asked you here tonight."

[quote]Didn't Jay-Z sample "it's a hard knock life"? So I would think many in the audience would already be familiar with it.

That was sixteen years ago. The target audience of this movie is 8-14.

Lord I love, who made the trees and grass fe' me, Contemplate this angry move you make. Lord I love, I run the risk of blasphemy, But this thing you do is a mistake.

"There are bridges you've crossed You didn't know you've crossed Until you've crossed."

That's not a bad rhyme. That's a bad lyric without a rhyme.

'Siam's gonna be the witness/To the ultimate test of cerebral fitness/ This grips me more than would/A muddy old river or Reclining Buddha'

One day more, another day another destiny, this never ending road to Calvary

Les Miserables, of course

A penny for your thoughts. A dime for your dreams. Would a shiny new quarter buy a peek at your schemes?

It's the hard-on life/For us!

It's the hard-on life/For us!

'Stead of life goals/We get plucked!

'Stead of film roles/We get fucked!

It's the hard-on life!

[quote]There is no such word as "la-di-da-dy"

So?

The stress is wrong on anchovy but I always thought it was a good funny lyric. Musical comedy lyric writers get to play around with words if they're good at it.

Lerner was one of the best but when he stumbled he fell hard.

Her English is too good he said which clearly indicates that she is foreign. Whereas other are instructed in their native language English people aren't.

Though Harrison barely touches the t to make it sound like a credible rhyme.

Worst or best?

Isn't this the height of nonchalance Furnishing a bed in restaurants?

Well, a bit of dinner never hurt, But guess who is gonna be dessert?

A bit of paté? I drink it all day.

Some day I'll land in the nut house With all the nuts and the squirrels There I'll stay Locked away 'til the prohibition of Little girls.

(the first and last time someone rhymed squirrels with girls)

Take me to a zoo that's got ch1mpanzees

Tell me on a Sunday please

WTF is "ch1mpanzees" a banned word?!

The "raisins/liaisins" rhyme is hilariously perfect when delivered by Hermione Gingold. By Angie...not so much...

Be our guest!

If you're stressed,

It's fine dining we suggest.

and from the upcoming "Little Urban Annie"movie-no one cares for you a smidge, when you are a foster kid (!)

Don't go near that dog. He's covered with fleas. Tell me on a Sunday please.

It's cold outside. It's seven degrees. Tell me on a Sunday please.

Just go in that room and get on your knees. Tell me on a Sunday please.

R52, see R22 and R24.

R52 = worse than Andrew Lloyd Webber

Can you let me in? I can't find my keys. Tell me on a Sunday please.

Some lima beans with carrots and peas. Tell me on a Sunday please.

So senator,

So janitor,

So long for awhile!

We travel single, oh Maybe we're lucky, But I don't know

The "o" or "oh," or whatever it is, is just awful.

The magic of words is weaving it’s spell ‘round this room Nobody’s dancin’ they’re all too entranced in Just listening to the perfect way my words fit that tune

There's always Leslie Bricusse at his best from Jekyll and Hyde:

!Murder, murder -

Or our doorstep!

Murder, murder -

So watch your step!

Murder, murder -

Take one more step,

You'll be murdered

In the night!

Murder, murder -

Once there's one done -

Murder, murder -

Can't be undone!

Murder, murder -

Lives in London! -

OR: from Victor/Victoria

Paris is so sexy.

Ridin' in a taxi gives me apoplexy.

Been ta Lisbon and Lisbon is a has-been.

Schlepped ta Stockholm, an' brought a lotta schlock home.

Also Oslo, and Oslo really was slow.

Paris makes me horny;

It's not like "Californy"

Paris is so dizzy;

Jack , it's such an aphrodisiac! oooooh!

It's true. Paris thrills me.

When I see the Eiffel Tower,

I have to go and take a shower.

It's true, I do.

Watch our for the Lucie Arnaz troll (R59) !!

He: I'll go out and bring home the bacon! She: I'll stay home and not feel forsaken!

(Cuz a bad lyric is always improved with a little misogyny)

Leslie Bricusse was never better than when he worked with Anthony Newley.

"And if he likes me

Who cares how frequently he strikes me

I'll fetch his slippers with my arm in a sling

Just for the privilege of wearing his ring"

Meat and Potatoes! Blueberry Pie! That's the kind of guy Am I!

Meat and potatoes! Fried eggs and ham, mixed with love don't mean a damn.

Bankers with their Cinder-rellatives Listin' to those hot high-yeller-tives Up in Harlem! Doin' the Uptown Low-Down!

Single o was an expression of the era that is no longer used so there is nothing wrong with that rhyme.

We travel single o

Maybe we're lucky but I don't know.

Why Bob Merrill gets so much shit when there is a lot worse out there is something I've never understood.

At least people are finally calling out Charnin for his truly terrible work.

I like the island Manhattan

Smoke on your pipe and put that in!

I thought it was "the ISLE of Manhattan"?

I am the king Sir Lancelot

I love to sing and dance a lot

Hootenanny is marginal and I refuse to accept sa-LAM-ee

We'll go to Coney

And have bologna

on a roll.

And I love Hart's lyrics but I have no idea where that came from.

Bob Merrill greatest sins may not be his rhymes but his weird imagery:

"I am dizzy, I am whirling,

I feel like my hair is curling

All around my head,

Like a lucky bird

Landed on my head!"

(How does one feel like one's hair is curling? What is a lucky bird, and why would it land on one's hand?)

R64 they replaced that with this in the modern age:

When he proposes / I'll have him send me tons of roses / Sweet-scented blossoms I'll enjoy by the hour / I won't restrict myself to one Little Flow'r!

How do you go from not minding being someone's punching bag to that?

Even strangers are dancing now

An old lady is waltzing in her flat

Waltzing with her cat

This is a commercial if obscure & foreign pick. I tried looking for footage or audio and couldn’t find it so my explanation will have to do,

In the Japanese ,Prince of Tennis’ musical IMPERIAL MATCH: HYOTEI GAKUEN there’s a brief interlude song (called a ‘Sorezore no Omoi’) where a character gives a little soliloquy of sorts, something about surpassing his limits (even though every single song in the play is about that already lmao).

In one the character Kaidoh, a gruff bass part, sings this (in romaji, the katakana are too hard for me):

[quote] Mou iya da konna utsu utsu...; Tamaranee konna guzu guzu....

Loosely, this rhymes ‘utsu utsu’ (‘dark, gathering gloom’) and ‘guzu guzu’ (something like ‘a suspicious plot or conspiracy’). All fine and well to sing, unless you’re a native Japanese with an accent that can’t pronounce a hard ‘g’ or ‘z’ very easily (and there are a few dialects with this problem). The original actor in this part had such an accent and ergo big problems trying to pronounce this rhyme, to the point he changed the lyrics on the fly to ‘fushu fushuuuu’ (a sound effect like a snake hissing) in frustration. Luckily the audience found it very funny and it suited the character (whose emblem was a snake) to do that.

We become indiscrete

Eating sweet after sweet

Though we know all too well where that may lead

So this box was designed

With the two of us in mind

As the kind of reminder we need

When you raise the lid

The music plays

Like a disapproving nod

And it sings in your ear

"No more candy, my dear."

In a way it's a little like the voice of God

Jerry Bock is a genius, R77, and She Loves Me’s “No More Candy” is a fine example of his witty way with words.

Is a danger to be trusting one another One will seldom want to do what other wishes But unless someday somebody trust somebody There'll be nothing left on earth excepting fishes

[R29], the "la-di-da-di" is a direct quote from someone else's lyric--Harburg, maybe, or Harnick. Sondheim discussed it somewhere.

Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious isn't a real word, either.

[R75] You're joking, right?

[R78] Bock wrote the music. Harnick wrote the words.

Tell me I won!

Everyone is happier when they do the tap tapioca. When they do the flap flapioca. Tap, tap, tap, tapioca, Slap, slap, slap, slapioca, Tap, tap, tap, tap the tapioca. Let's pretend we've got a bowl, we're gonna have some sport.

You've got my vote.

This was written to be sung by a construction worker (a musical comedy construction worker,) so Sammy Cahn had a wealth of opportunities for rhymes he wouldn't dare use any place else.

[quote][R75] You're joking, right?

Not at all. I think those are some of Sondheim's worst rhymes. Surely, you don't think they're good?

What R75 said.

Waltzing with her cat? Bleccccch.

"Roses are dancing with peonies" is not much better.

I love Maury Yeston's music but he's a piss-poor lyricist

Go off and live your petty fictions Full of blatant contradictions you can’t see, And what will be Is that you’ll leave, And you’ll take with you all you own From a to z ... And all of me.

There are clever rhymes

and natural rhymes

but rare is the clime

that combines the two.

You mean that a king who fought a dragon Hacked him in two and fixed his wagon . . .

​

Warm all over.

Gone are all the clouds

that used to swarm all over.

Oh, sorry; I thought the poster was attributing the Do I hear a Waltz lyric to ALW. Do forgive me, dear.

And [R90] takes home the prize for absolute worst.

But most, George, of all But most of all I love your painting! I think I'm fainting!

My heart wants to beat like the wings of the birds

That rise from the lake to the trees

My heart wants to sigh like a chime that flies

From a church on a breeze

To laugh like a brook when it trips and falls

Over stones on it's way

To sing through the night

Like a lark who is learning to pray

A FLYING CHIME AND A PRAYING BIRD? REALLY??

[quote]Like a lark who is learning to pray

I thought it was prey with an 'E.'

A preying lark would be even worse! :)

Burr, sir,

blur, sir,

bursar

Oscar obviously had a bird fixation:

-- a nightingale without a song to sing

-- the sweet silver song of a lark

-- fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly

-- And lovers walked beneath those trees and birds found songs to sing.

-- I have seen a line of snow-white birds drawn across the evening sky.

-- talk about a bird, learning how to fly

-- My heart wants to beat. Like the wings of a bird that flies from the lake to the trees.

-- Birds and frogs will sing all together and the toads will hop!

The plot is took, the Queen forsook . . .

From ON THE TWENTIETH CENTURY. The song -- "I've Got It All":

OSCAR Keep your tainted pelf.

LILY Got there by myself.

pelf?

From the Pulitzer Prize Winner FIORELLO -- the song: "The Very Next Man"

And if he likes me

Who cares how frequently he strikes me?

I'll fetch his slippers with my arm in a sling

Just for the privilege of wearing his ring*

R101 didn't they change that song?

That Fiorello lyric was terrific in its day, and absolutely right for the character (the second verse was something like "if he adores me what does it matter if he bores me"--also character driven)--Harnick's a first-rate lyricist. He's since changed it.

"When he proposes, I'll have him send me tons of roses. Sweet scented blossoms I'll enjoy by the hour; I won't restrict myself to one Little Flower." Changed sometime in the 80s.

And yet the original "Who cares how frequently he strikes me?" lyric won the Pulitzer Prize.

Yesterday was plain awful.

You can say that again.

Yesterday was plain awful,

But that's not now, that's then.

Sodomy is between God and me

Different times, R105.

I think the only lyrics that consistently look good on the page are Porter's. Sondheim's, as some posters have noted, can look very weird out of context (PO is an exception--they are gorgeous to read), and Hammerstein's are like Hallmark cards until they're set to music.

Dorothy Fields, who wrote with Jerome Kern and, late in her life, wrote the lyrics for "Sweet Charity" to Cy Coleman's music, was a wonderful lyricist. She and Kern won the Oscar for "The Way You Look Tonight" (from "Swing Time").

Dear R11. You are an illiterate peasant.

I wondered whether anyone would drag his ass.

But with a Schlitz in her midst down at Fitzroy’s bar

She thinks of the Ritz, oh it’s so schizo

Mitts. Mitts, dear. A Schlitz in her mitts.

Schlitz in her mitts down at Fitzroy's Bar

Oh

Thanks

Burr, sir

as if we didnt catch the cleverness the FIRST time

She sits at the Ritz with her splits of Mumms

And starts to pine for a stein with her Village chums

But with the Schlitz in her mitts down in Fitzroy's Bar

She thinks of the Ritz, so

It's so schizo!

“Dreams the way we planned 'em If we work in tandem.”

I fucking hate that line. Who says “work in tandem”? Stupid.

R119 it is not nearly as bad as the "dialysis" rhyme.

"Hey, Senator! Hey, Janitor!"

That one bothers me the most. It doesn't rhyme. It doesn't come close. And it is completely and totally exposed. Charnin just doesn't care. If he would publish that, he would publish anything.

R121 that reminds me, I hate "Castle on a Cloud" from LES MIZ, but especially for this deliberate non-rhyme: "There is a room that's full of toys / There are a hundred boys and girls." Why? You know they just did that to fuck with the audience,.

All my struggles for qualifications My nights with Goethe and Proust Recklessly abandoned For you who thinks Chekhov is King to G3 And Joyce my college roommate

^Sorry, formatting should have been:

All my struggles for qualifications

My nights with Goethe and Proust

Recklessly abandoned

For you who thinks Chekhov is King to G3

And Joyce my college roommate

Joyce?

DeWitt???

I love love love Judy Kuhn's singing on the Chess cast album, but that "Joyce my college roommate" line annoys me every time.

R97 you left out A lark 'll wake up in the meader.

"Epstein says I simply have to pose for him!

No refusing these artistic ultimata!

DuPont wants me wearing the new hose for him--

Oh how thrilling to be the world's inamorata..."

--Ira Gershwin, Lady in the Dark

That song about a gum tree from Oliver. They were watching it on my ship when I was in the Navy, and it went over like a lead balloon.

What’s the bad rhyme in r124? I don’t see any rhymes at all.

R129 how do you mean? I haven't seen OLIVER!

R64, R74, R101, R102, besides the re-written lyric for the show, Sheldon Harnick wrote another version of that lyric for Barbara Cook outside of the show.

I'm through with moping, Moping from all this pointless hoping. Hoping he'll notice me and open his heart. Time now to break away and make a new start.

R72, bologna on a roll is a hot dog which were very popular at Coney Island.

R133 why didn't he just say 'hot dog'?

because it doesn't scan and it doesn't cleverly demystify the hotdog?

The Barbara Cook lyric is better than the original substitute, but the original lyric was terrific.

We'll go to Yonkers Where true love conquers In the wilds. And starve together, dear, In Childs'. We'll go to Coney And eat a hot dog (silence) (silence) (silence) In Central Park we'll stroll, Where our first kiss we stole, Soul to soul. Our future babies We'll take to "Abie's Irish Rose." I hope they'll live to see It close. The city's clamor can never spoil The dreams of a boy and goil. We'll turn Manhattan Into an isle of joy.

Better? No.

R135, I like all those lyrics (including the original). The substitute show lyric has the fun bonus of incorporating little flower which is the English translation for Fiorello.

Unfortunately, there are only about a dozen people left on the planet who remember Childs'--but I'd hate to see that tinkered with. It's an altogether lovely lyric.

I like the Little Flow'r reference, too, r 137. I wonder why Harnick isn't more celebrated as a lyricist....

Anything from Hamilton.

How do we feel about made-up/baby-talk words, a specialty of Yip Harburg? "Something Sort of Grandish" is an excellent example:

Something sweet,

Something sort of grandish

Sweeps my soul

When thou art near.

My heart feels so sugar candish

My hand feels so ginger beer.

Something so dareish

So I don't careish,

Stirs me from limb to limb.

It's so terrifish, magnifish, delish.

To have such an amorish glamorish.

We could be oh, so bride and groomish

Skies could be so bluish blue.

Life could be so love in bloomish,

If my ishes could come true.

Thou art sweet,

Thou art sort of grandish,

Thou outlandish cavalier.

Fromnow on, we're hand in handish

Romeo and Guinevere

Thou'rt so adorish

Toujours l'amourish.

I'm so cherchez la femme.

Why should I vanquish,

Relinquish, resish,

When I simply relish this swellish condish.

I might be manishish or mouseish

I might be a fowl or fish,

But with thee I'm Eisenhowzish.

Please accept my propasish

You're under my skinish,

So please be give-inish

Or it's the beginish of the finish of me.

Oh, and the "Zsa Zsa Gaborra" was an update of the original line:

If this isn’t love, I’m Carmen Miranda.

If this isn’t love, it’s Red propaganda.

GYPSY is one of my favorite musicals (in the top 3), but I absolutely hate, detest, and loathe "Little Lamb" -- the worst showtune ever written, IMO. It has a lovely melody, but the lyrics are atrocious. WTF is she even singing about? I wish they'd replace it or write better lyrics. It's the only time I tune out during the show when I've seen it.

I know, R141, it was written to be sung by a leprechaun and we all know leprechauns don't speak that way.

In olden days a glimpse of stalking

was looked upon as something shocking

now heaven knows, anything goes.

Good authors true who once knew better words

now only utilize four letter words

Goodness knows

Anything goes

I think that's from Rocky Horror Picture Show, it's pretty terrible rhyme wise and doesn't even make sense. Rhyming words with words? Knows and goes. Trash.

Pop a vike, R121. It’s only a end-rhyme.

[R141], lighten up, for godsake.

You and Jerry Robbins, [R143].

I hope you were joking R145. That's the title song from Cole Porter's ANYTHING GOES.

The actual lyric:

In olden days, a glimpse of stocking

Was looked on as something shocking

But now, God knows, anything goes.

Good authors too who once knew better words

Now only use four-letter words

Writing prose.

Anything goes

I never knew that Cole Porter did the lyrics for Rocky Horror Show!?! Thanks R149. Your version is slightly better but not appreciably.

The rhyme is "better words" and "letter words" not just "words " and "words" f145

The EY Harburg slangy lyrics is something Ira gershwin did too--more from "Lady in the Dark":

Just laugh at old man Depression

And send him into obliv'!

Then you're the winner

(I'm off to dinner!)

We've only one life to live!

That particular song has a great melody by Kurt Weill, but it has one of my least favorite rhymes ever-- "nothing" and "the thing":

Why let the goblins upset you?

One smile and see how they run!

And what does worrying net you?

Nothing!

The thing

Is to have fun!

I've never been impressed with Porter's lyrics. He always rhymed for the sake of rhyming. That's lazy.

You're the top! You're Mahatma Ghandi

You're the top! You're Napolean Brandy

You're the purple light of a summer night in Spain

You're the National Gallery, you're Garbo's salary

You're cellophane!

You’re kidding, right? Porter is widely considered the best lyricist of Broadway’s Golden Age. Who do you think is better?

I don't know, r153; You're the Top is one of the best list songs ever written--fun and witty even if you don't much like list songs.

God, Thy will is hard But You hold every card -- the Gospel according to Tim Rice

You’re the tops! You’re De Milo’s Venus . . . You’re the tops! You’re King Kong’s penis . . .

You're The Top! You're Miss Pinkham's tonic You're The Top! You're a high colonic You're the burning heat Of a bridal suite in use You're the breasts of Venus You're King Kong's penis You're self-abuse! You're an arch In the Rome collection You're the starch In a groom's erection I'm a eunuch who Has just been through an op But if, baby, I'm the bottom You're The Top!

R157 Exactly!

r153

1. Gandhi

2. Napoleon

I'm the G.O.P., or GOP!

(but fortunately not GOOP.)

Are you marking imaginary papers old queen?

More Harburg:

I'm gettin' tired of waitin'

And stickin' to the rules

This feelin' calls for matin'

Like birds, and bees

And other animules

Harburg is fabulous.

You people are nuts.

Finian's lyrics are among the best.

Harburg is absolutely one of the best lyricists. They all have their own style and you have to allow them the freedom to work in it, but the worst he ever wrote and discarded is still better that most anything that gets produced on Broadway.

Love is a lecture

On how to correct yer

Mistakes

Rectum, I almost killed him.

Johnny Mercer

Her hair is blonde and curly. Her curls are hurly-burly. Her lips are pips. I call her hips whirly and twirly.

She's my baby. I'm her pap. I'm her booby, she's my trap. I am caught and I don't wanna run 'cause I'm havin' so much fun with honey bun.

Porter is widely considered the best lyricist of Broadway’s Golden Age. Who do you think is better?

I'm not r153, but I prefer Lorenz Hart and Dorothy Fields. Porter is too much for me--I prefer it when lyrics are not so forced in their cleverness. Hart comes close to overdoing it, but he usually keeps from going over the edge. He's clever without being clever-clever, the way Porter can be.

“Oh Noah, you go-a all the way back to the protazoa.” Children of Eden

"There'll be ham, and jam, and Spam!"

What's wrong with you people? Harburg, Porter, Ira Gershwin, Hart, etc. are all wonderful.

I'll leave with this:

"What's the muddle in the middle?"

That's the puddle where the poodle did the piddle."

Too self-consciously clever by half. Always takes me right out Barefoot in the Park with George.

I understand the Hammerstein Hallmark comment but Rodgers was one of the two best Broadway composers. And the fact that Hammerstein could bring that genius to an even higher level shows his own artless genius.

The last thing anybody could say about Sondheim was that he had the art that concealed the art. In fact he is the most gifted student in a graduate class who is also a big fat fucking how-off and I say this loving much of his work with Prince. After Prince it's all public masturbation which I get because I'm an exhibitionist myself. Having a mother who despised you so deeply and tells you right before she thinks she's going to die her one regret in life is having you(which you probably sensed from when you were a child) does strange things to people.

And no I've never publically masturbated and I don't have a sexual dungeon in my apartment which would be a logistical problem even if I wanted one.

Cole Porter is a genius, but a lazy genius. For many of his songs there are multiple verses. The first one is always brilliant. The second one might be brilliant, too. But after that, each successive verse gets lazier and sloppier.

Check out "You're the Top."

I'm a nominee of the G.O.P. or GOP, But if, baby, I'm the bottom, You're the top!

GOP? Ugh.

You're my thoist, You're a Drumstick Lipstick, You're the foist in the Irish svipstick,

We know Porter could do better. The early verses prove it.

Ira Gershwin, Porter and Larry Hart certainly had their moments, as did Comden and Green, and Hammerstein had many (ornithological obsession notwithstanding). but for my personal taste Harburg, Dorothy Fields, Harnick and yes, Sondheim, are the masters.

Gershwin, Porter and Hart had 'their moments?'

My we are generous.

All three were sloppy.

[quote]"There'll be ham, and jam, and Spam!"

[quote]—Appetizing combo, eh? The Blood Brothers think so!

Isn’t that a line from the “Camelot” song in “Monty Python & Holy Grail”?

“We’ll eat ham and jam and spam a lot”

For the most part, Gershwin, Porter and Hart were not writing serious musical drama; they were writing entertainments. Their wordplay (including altering words) was part of what made their songs fun for audiences of the day.

"When the dog bites, when the bee stings

When I'm feeling sad

I simply remember my favorite things

And then I don't feel so bad"

Sounds like something I would've written in grade school. Hammerstein's lyrics are pretty pedestrian, for the most part.

A

How did we get to 180 without ....

I'm their savior, that' s what they call me/ So Lauren Bacall me

R181, That is a fuckin' great line, one which I have used often!

Long ago here used to be

A tribe of Indian smarties throwing their parties here.

Long ago, you used to see

A wild young maiden in copper dance with her proper dear.

In the shadow of the totem pole here,

In the shadow of the totem pole!

All night long they'd skip and prance

Like birds on wing they would float-um,

Call it the Totem dance.

When my grandpa Chief Chickeekotem

Took my grandma out to a totem,

Totem tom tom, totem tom tom.

First they'd moved their feet very blue like,

The drum would beat tattoo like,

Totem tom tom, totem tom-tom.

Then pretty soon each Injin

Was singe-in'

His throat with firewater gin-gin

And faster and faster

Round the totem they flew!

Later on, all tired and sleepy

They'd creep back home to their teepee --

Totem tom tom, totem tom tom!

[quote]Sounds like something I would've written in grade school. Hammerstein's lyrics are pretty pedestrian, for the most part.

You have to remember that was written towards the end of his life hen he was dying. When he was younger he wrote amazing lyrics:

FRANK: "Little girl, you are safe with me.

I can protect what's mine!

I am a sturdy maple tree,

And you're my clinging vine!"

ELLIE: "Woods are just filled with maple trees--

Cedar and oak and pine!

Let me look them over, please,

And I will let you know

If you have a show..."

I got virtue but it ain't been tested --

No one's even interested....

Life upon the wicked stage ain't nothin' for a girl.

Life upon the wicked stage

Ain't ever what a girl supposes;

Stage door Johnnies aren't rag-

Ing over you with gems and roses.

When you let a feller hold your hand (which

Means an extra beer or sandwich),

Ev'rybody whispers: "Ain't her life a whirl?"

Though you're warned against a roué

Ruining your reputation,

I have played around

The one night trade around

A great big nation:

Wild old men who give you jewels and sables

Only live in Aesop's Fables.

Life upon the wicked stage

Ain't nothin' for a girl.

A Hammerstein lyric from FLOWER DRUM SONG in the form of a Malaysian pantoum:

I am going to like it here. There is something about the place, An encouraging atmosphere, Like the smile on a friendly face.

There is something about the place, So caressing and warm it is, Like the smile on a friendly face, Like a port in the storm it is. So caressing and warm it is, All the people are so sincere, Like a port in the storm it is, I am going to like it here.

All the people are so sincere, There's especially one I like. I am going to like it here, It's the father's first son I like. There's especially one I like, There is something about his face. It's the father's first son I like, He's the reason I love the place.

There is something about his face, I would follow him anywhere. If he goes to another place ... I am going to like it there.

There is something about his face, I would follow him anywhere. If he goes to another place ... I am going to like it there.

That last line is wonderful; it redeems the rest of the lyric.

The rest of the lyric does not need redeeming.

[quote]Wild old men who give you jewels and sables

[quote]Only live in Aesop's Fables.

Weren't Aesop's fables about animals? Isn't that what a fable is -- a short story that uses animals to teach morals? I think Hammerstein was reaching with that lyric.

Animals are not required. Now exactly as reaching, R190?

In the icebox, you'll find in a can Some leftovers of Moo Goo Gai Pan

THAT is my favorite Oscar Hammerstein lyric.

So bongo, bongo, bongo, I don't wanna leave the Congo, oh no no no no no

Bingo, bangle, bungle, I'm so happy in the jungle, I refuse to go

Don't want no bright lights, false teeth, doorbells, landlords, I make it clear

That no matter how they coax him, I'll stay right here

Back to Sondheim, here with "Can That Boy Foxtrot" a song cut from the original production of Follies. I saw Yvonne de Carlo sing it when the show tried out in Boston and I was in high school. I had my first sexual experience later that evening at the Napoleon Club, aka "The Wrinkle Room." I was a cute kid at 16 but I wasn't expecting a drink AND a blow job... Anyway, rhyming "aims to please" with "find a Hercules" is genius.

I know this grocery clerk, unprepossessing. Some think the boy's a jerk. They have my blessing. But when he starts to move, he aims to please, Which only goes to prove that sometimes in a clerk you find a Hercules.

He hasn't much that's plus - you might describe him thus A false alarm, a broken arm, An imitation Hitler but with littler charm. But ohhh, can that boy foxtrot.

His mouth is mean. He's not too clean. What makes him look reptilian is the brilliantine. But ohhh, can that boy foxtrot.

Elaine Stritch reprising her role in Pal Joey as the newspaperwoman interviewing Gypsy Rose Lee in a song called "Zip."

Zip! English people don't say clerk, they say clark Zip! Anybody who says clark is a jark!

Slow you team my baby's a sleepin

Maybe got a dream worth a keepin

Woah you team and just keep a creepin

At a slow clip clop

Don't you hurry with the Surry with the fringe on the top.

That's amazing.

While people are bashing Oscar I'll bring up another of Steve's idiocies and what the average person gets and this genius doesn't.

Sondheim has brought up a few times 'When the sky is a bright canary yellow.'

How can a sky be yellow? Has there just been some catastrophe?

What the wide audience gets instinctively and this brilliant game player does not is that a bright yellow sun is filling the sky with its light on a clear day.

We know the sky is a clear blue but on a subconscious level the imagery works beautifully and is tremendously satisfying.

or Sondheim on Hart's “My Funny Valentine," which includes the lyric,

"Your looks are laughable / Unphotographable / But you’re my favorite work of art":

“Unless the object of the singer’s affection is a vampire, surely what Hart means is unphotogenic. Only vampires are unphotographable, but affectionate '-enic' rhymes are hard to come by.”

I'll track and trail Valjean

And search from dusk to dawn

And though I sleepless yawn

I'll jail that vile Valjean.

Some of these Hammerstein and Hart quotations are actually testimonies to their brilliance,

Sondheim is just bitter because he has only one song as beloved as the dozens or more classics that Hart and Ira Gershwin wrote.

Sondheim is bitter because he has to deal with all the royalty money constantly pouring in from West Side Story.

It's alarming how charming I feel.

And he has mentioned a number of times how much less of the royalties he gets on WSS than he should have. Especially after the film came out became a phenomenon and the soundtrack a constant international bestseller for 57 years.

He only gets a percentage of royalties as a lyricist instead of the full amount he should.

At the time of the original Broadway production he declined them.

Huge very costly mistake. Biggest show he ever had.

R198 where is that from? I don't recognize the lyrics from LES MIZ -- unless it's a new inclusion. I'm only familiar with the original score.

Not necessarily a bad lyric, but I've always been confused as to why Tim Rice used 'Big Apple' in EVITA when referring to Buenos Aires? Isn't 'Big Apple' NYC's nickname. Before I became familiar with the show, I had never heard another city described as such.

I don't think Sondheim's bitter at all; he just has a kind of OCD about words.

No one in history has ever called Buenos Aires “big apple” except for Tim Rice.

You have set them all on fir-a

They think they’ve found the new messier-a

You have to mis-pronounce both words to make it rhyme.

Tim Rice once admitted that no one calls Buenos Aires "Big Apple," but that he couldn't resist because the initials are "B A."

Again, while technically wrong (like "unphotographable"), I think it still works. Objectioning to lyrics because of prissiness seems to defeat the point. i have much more trouble with "like a lark that is learning to pray" (which makes no sense) than I do with "Only lives in Aesop's fables"--the latter is cute, the first is pretentious.

"I'm a girl and by me that's only great" is also very weak in terms of sense--how many Chinese-American girls in 1950s San Farncisco use Yiddish syntax structures?--, but it works because it's cute.

[quote]Huge very costly mistake. Biggest show he ever had.

Really?

When was the last time an original production of a Sondheim musical paid off its investors and made a profit on Broadway? Sunday? Into the Woods? Sweeney Todd? Night Music?

Your point?

With a cornet man,

A rootin', shootin', ever-tootin' Dapper Dan,

Who carries in his satchel

A powder-blue Norfolk suit,

A silver-plated wah-wah mute,

There is whiskey, gamblin' - each one is a curse,

But I'm up against a devil that's worse.

Yes, a horn is my thorn,

My travlin' cornet man!

Brilliant? Or worst lyrics ever?

r181, so Shelley Duvall me....

R205, off the tops of my heads, I think it might be a mashup of a term for a metropolis (though usually NYC) and the shared first initials with "B"uenos "A"ires. In any case, it's lazy and mediocre.

Like ships that pass and toot their horn

But never send that SOS

We wake up solo every morn

But keep as secret our distress.

Can't you see a partridge in a pear tree? Climb up and bring it down for me That's something i would like to see.

R217, talk about ham!

To kill outside of St. Paul's

Requires a lot of balls

Garlic! Garlic! The secret to staying young

Garlic! Garlic! It's why we're so well-hung

Boy meets boy

Boy loses boy

But boy gets boy in the end

The point is that Sondheim has put down lyricists who have had many more hit shows that were successful and made money on Broadway than he has had.

I would say the last commercial success Sondheim has had on Broadway is Night Music.

45 years ago.

That's a very very long time ago for someone who has been fairly continuously working since them.

Sondheim has made a point of not trashing any living lyricists; he's said as much in interviews and in his book. If you're referring to criticisms of Porter and Ira Gershwin, he's entitled to his opinions and I'm pretty sure they're not intended as put-downs. And It seems to me that the point isn't which lyricists are the biggest money-makers; I thought we were talking about quality, not quantity or commercial success.

Bravo, r223. I liked Night Music, but everything since then has been very dull.

[quote]I would say the last commercial success Sondheim has had on Broadway is Night Music.

SWEENEY TODD and INTO THE WOODS came out after NIGHT MUSIC, and they were commercial successes, too. They ran for several years. ITW is also quite popular in high schools.

Sondheim, Prince, and even Michael Bennett benefited more than anyone acknowledges from the work of Boris Aronson. Fiddler on the Roof, Cabaret, Company, Follies, Night Music... All of the Boris Aronson. And, except for Michael Bennett and A Chorus Line, all of them were the biggest hits their creators ever had.

Pacific Overtures was not a financial hit, but it remains the most staggering beautiful thing I've ever seen on stage. Designed by Boris Aronson.

Are we talking about commercial success or quality? Many of the "worst lyrics" quoted in this thread were in shows that were commercial successes.

PO also has some really wonderful lyrics. Someone in a Tree is brilliant and moving.

R228 the title clearly states "worst rhymes ever from musical theater" regardless of quality.

But after 230 posts, we are entitled to stray!

It seems to me that the absence of quality is implicit in "worst."

It's vital you sell me.

So machiavell me!

-- Evita

Again in terms of overall quality Sondheim putting down people like Hammerstein, Gershwin, Porter and Hart is absolutely laughable.

I mean he called Oscar Hammerstein a man of 'limited talent.' Possibly the single most stupid thing anybody has ever said about musical theater.

Do I think some of their lyrics aren't great? Yes. But to pull out his examples and then find in their own way they are brilliant is unfortunate.

My favorite example of Sondheim in complete contradiction is The Miller's Son.

I saw D'Jamin Bartlett sing this in the original production and it is undoubtedly a highpoint in my theater going experience. I remember her performance vividly. A joy.

But what the fuck is Petra doing singing this song?

R234

Sondheim is disreputable in so many ways (his former sex life, for one) but to trash the guy who mentored him - Oscar Hammerstein - from the time he was a teenager is beyond the pale. From Geoffrey Block's "Enchanted Evenings: The Broadway Musical From Show Boat to Sondheim and Lloyd Webber":

"Sondheim was able to learn invaluable lessons about the craft of Broadway from one its greatest pioneers. Sondheim never forgot Hammerstein’s priceless lessons in how to write and how not to write a musical. To help his student develop his craft and discover his own voice, Hammerstein suggested that Sondheim write four kinds of musicals to develop his craft. For the next six years Sondheim would attempt to follow this advice.

Some of what Sondheim learned about lyric writing and dramatic structure from the master soon became available to musical theater aficionados when Hammerstein published a seminal essay on the subject in 1949. One central premise stated early in the essay is Hammerstein’s conviction that “a song is a wedding of two crafts.” Later, Hammerstein articulates the importance of “very close collaboration during the planning of a song and the story that contains the song” and espouses the view that “the musician is just as much an author as the man who writes the words.” The resulting marriage of music and words, the welding of two crafts and talents “into a single expression” is for Hammerstein “the great secret of the well-integrated musical play.”

Unlike Hammerstein, Sondheim would assume two mantles, author and musician-although, unlike his mentor, Sondheim did not write the librettos for any of his Broadway shows."

But what the fuck is Petra doing singing this song?

Providing a moment's respite and a lot of energy in the middle of a second act that is all too heavy with plot.

Wtf? There is no trashing of Hammerstein in the passage quoted, r234. And what has his "former sex life" (whatever that might mean) to do with his abilities as a lyricist?

R237

Sondheim calling Oscar Hammerstein a man of 'limited talent' would seem to contradict what Block wrote.

Did Sondheim really say that Hammerstein had 'limited talent'? Wow. That's harsh, especially coming from your apprentice.

[R238], Then the poster should have cited to the criticism.

He did say it, and added that Hammerstein had unlimited soul, in the context of describing Rodgers as a soul-less composer of unlimited talent. I think both are true and defensible statements--and if you've ever seen Sondheim talk about Hammerstein, his feelings of love and gratitude are unmistakable. He gave a new quote to Todd Purdom for Purdom's biography of R&H in which he called Hammerstein's lyrics, when they worked, as "monumental."

I love you, R3.

"Tell-hel him not to dilly-dally, not to dilly-dally, come down to Lily of the Valley!"

r241 One of those "dilly-dallys" should be "shilly-shally."

[quote]When other girls go walking On their arms they have a swell beau But whenever I go walking On my arm is just my elbow

My favorite from that show: "The stout makes him ail and the ale makes him stout."

No, R234, the stupidest things anybody has ever said about musical theater are on this thread.

Dressy Tessie Tura Is so much more demurer Than all them other ladies because...

"You Gotta Get A Gimmick"

Not necessarily a bad rhyme, but it always made me giggle when Mary Magdalene sings the following in "I Don't Know How to Love Him":

He's a man

He's just a man

And I've had so many men before

In very many ways

He's just one more!

Of course, "And I've had so many men before" and "In very many ways" are separate sentences, but the way it's sung it sounds like Mary Magdalene tried every sexual position with these men. LOL!

wait: you mean that's not what it means? LOL!

The most influential man of the American musical theater in the 20th Century is a man of 'limited talent' is a defensible statement?

Okey dokey.

Not musical theater, but Loretta Lynn's lyrics rhymed based on her strong, backwoods Kentucky accent. Reference from "Coal Miner's Daughter" song: "The work we done was hard At night we'd sleep 'cause we were tard (tired)" Great song writer, btw

R247 here's how Tim Rice meant for it to be understood:

"He's a man. He's just a man, and I've had so many men before. In very many ways, he's just one more."

But the way there's a pause after "man," "before," and "ways" makes it sound like "I've had so many men before in very many ways" is one sentence.

Did Mary have access to the Kama Sutra?

R217, it's not THAT bad.

R250, just stick in another "in very many ways."

If that's how Tim Rice meant it to be understood, and I'm sure it is, then he is an idiot, and I'm sure he is.

The words are supposed to fit with the music. The music has phrases. And if the Man Who Writes the Words wants his words to be understood, then he should plan for the phrases he writes to match the phrases written by the Man Who Writes the Music.

Why on Earth did neither of them see this problem and correct it? Why did a director, or the original album producer, not see this problem and insist they correct it?

Ack. It's only Tim Rice and ALW. It doesn't matter. Not in the least.

But she has had many men in very many ways.

I feel half Tijuana, half Boston.

Partly Jane Fonda and partly Jane Austen.

That's not a bad rhyme--particularly for that show, which had a lot of real clunkers.

"Where are we to go? Where are we ever to go?"

And, R256, Tim Rice would do very well to study how perfectly that lyric fits its music.

R250 I meant to say there's a pause after "man," "man," and "ways," making it sound like "I've had so many men before in very many ways" is one sentence.

[quote]Dressy Tessie Tura Is so much more demurer

Unfamiliar with the source materials, I used to wonder is Sondheim named the characters just to get a cheap rhyme?

Like with Armfeldt and "charm felt" (which is a bad rhyme anyway)

It's a simple little gig

You help me kill a pig

Kill the pig, pig, pig, pig

Kill him, kill him, kill him and make him bleed

Get the blood, blood, blood, blood

Kill the pig, make him bleed

Take the blood that's all we need

R261, one hopes that the music for that was VERY good.

[quote]Like with Armfeldt and "charm felt" (which is a bad rhyme anyway)

Armfeldt was the character's name in the source material ("Smiles of a Summer Night.")

Tessitura is a musical term; it has something to do with a singer's range. Mazeppa is the name of (and the subject of) a poem by Lord Byron. I can't remember the third stripper's name.

You didn't really think Sondheim just used nonsense syllables, did you?

As they are character didn't Laurents come up with the names?

I believe the third one is the Sophocle's Elektra if I'm not mistaken.

The third one was called Electra, but I don't think it had anything to do with Sophocles' play. She merely donned electric lights as her gimmick.

Mazeppa and Electra were strippers Gypsy Rose Lee worked with in burlesque during the 1930's and whose characters Laurents worked into the Broadway show. Miss Electra had batteries for the lights in a bag around her waist - very hi-tech for the 30's.

The full version is gone from YouTube (thanks, ITV!) but the performance of "You Gotta Get A Gimmick" from the 2001 Royal Variety Show has to be one of the best ever. Paul O'Grady as Lily Savage as Miss Mazeppa, Cilla Black (RIP) as Miss Electra, and Barbara Windsor (EastEnders) as Dressy Tessi Turra are beyond hilarious. A short clip of Cilla complete with Liverpool jokes is shown

Nah. Faith Dane, all the way. Even in pan and scan.

Betty Bruce and Roxanne Arlen are heavenly. And the Jerome Robbins choreography is spot on.

"Somethin' wrong with STRIPPIN'?!?!"

That never fails to make me laugh. Faith Dane's delivery was spot on! Incidentally, she's still alive, in her mid-nineties. You go, girl!

In the late 90's, she did a sort-of cabaret at a club in Chelsea. She's a big pot head with a MUCH younger boy friend. She wore something reminiscent of her Mazeppa costume, but happily wore a body stocking under it. She talked about GYPSY. She and the boyfriend did some music. It was all about as weird could be. So, of course, I stayed after to meet her.

Why was doing 'scenes' such a come down in burlesque?

I guess they're referring to the comic skits that were done between strippers and that was for some reason beneath them in the burlesque shows?

Gypsy is a criminally underrated film. I think it's terrific.

Let's face it we all adore Ethel but she just wasn't going to work in a wide screen musical where she's almost the whole show. Except for us who would have gone?

If it wasn't going to be Ethel, then in should have been Judy Garland. She knew all about domineering stage mothers.

I don't like the GYPSY movie because they needlessly and inexplicably changed things. The most blatant was not making Tulsa the guy that runs off with June. Instead, some other unseen boy is mentioned. What was the point of that? Did the filmmakers think it would make Tulsa look bad if he eloped with one sister even though the protagonist had the hots for him?

R272 you mean because as a child performer she ran into many a stage mother?

No, that's not what I meant, but yes, she probably did as you have suggested.

Her own mother was a domineering stage mother. LOTS of problems in that family.

Late to the party, but are there no British clothiers in Los Angeles?

Truth be told, that lyric has always annoyed me.

R276 to what lyric are you referring?

I think Garland could have summoned up the requisite rage, especially when one hears some of her late audio interviews and looks at the long hospital scene with Dirk Bogarde in Singing. Her weight varied so much and I think a little extra poundage would be good. She was so preternaturally talented that it's hard to think of her as a character who had to "succeed" through others, but,that's what acting is. Like Olivier in "The Entertainer."

I have become addicted to the youtube clip of 20-year -old Judy doing "Embraceable You" in a roomful of hot guys. She's gorgeous and sexy and as usual one can't take one's eyes off her. Including when she's dancing with talented Charles Walters, who would later direct a couple of her films. I do wonder though if some of her energy is bennie-induced.

[quote]I don't like the GYPSY movie because they needlessly and inexplicably changed things. The most blatant was not making Tulsa the guy that runs off with June.

I think combining the characters of Mr. Jocko and Herbie was far worse.

They also made Herbie too much of a saint. In the play, he still has his flaws. Louise even hates him for most of the first act, but in the film they get along from the get-go. Weird.

Wonder how it was for Sondheim to write lyrics for a monster mother, in Gypsy, when he had one.

Rose wasn't a monster. She just wanted fame for her daughters. Her biggest crime was living through her daughters.

Oh yeah?

R282

Oh yes she was. Read Karen Abbott's "American Rose: A Nation Laid Bare" and you'll be disabused of that notion quickly.

R283

Baby June is right

The real life Mama Rose was a psychotic who murdered two people., one of them her lesbian lover. She was much, much worse than a stage mother.

In Merman's autobiography (the one with the blank page after "My marriage to Ernest Borgnine"), she said the tour of "Gypsy" was much better because the young lady who played Louise was much better and she also singled out Betty Bruce who she said was a member of the Paris Ballet. Bruce's line readings remain a scream and her ballet has the exact right mixture of professionalism and bawdiness.

During the "Gimmick" number, Sondheim says one of his favorite moments in any of his films occurs. At around 4:55, the camera goes in for a tight close-up of Louise while the strippers are performing. Wood looks side to side and then smiles. You can read her perfectly. She's thinking "I can do this". Sondheim says it's a lightbulb moment that couldn't have happened onstage.

Yup. That close up of Natalie Wood is stunning. Whenever anyone quibbles with her playing Louise, just direct them to that lovely moment.

Five hundred twenty five thousand six hundred minutes.

Five hundred twenty five thousand journeys to plan.

Five hundred twenty five thousand six hundred minutes.

How do you measure a life of a woman or a man?

Almost any lyric from "I Had a Ball." Take your pick.

Think there's a new bio out of John LaTouche ("Lazy Afternoon").

The way Sondheim uses “wood” or “woods” depending on what word he wants to rhyme it with.

Um, what's wrong with that?

At his age, he's lucky to get wood at all.

Ba da Duh! We hope you've enjoyed the comic stylings of R293. He wil be here, at the Route 57 Ramada Inn, all week.

... stickler ... partick'lar

SHAME!

So funny that I'm addicted to that Embraceable You number as well. Not only Judy at her most beautiful charming and pure but the staging of the number how the boys keep changing into different group formations and their vocal arrangement is a knockout. Really MGM at its best. Bidin My time is very wonderful as well.

Also would love to know who did the arrangement of the knockout male sextet behind Judy at the end of the vocal section of La Conga.

I keep thinking it might have been Kay Thompson but I don't know if she was at MGM that early in the 40s.

I'd rather hear Jill Haworth sing Cabaret than Liza on steroids or whatever she was on at the time.

You go right ahead and do that, R297.

Good luck with it.

If you're saying that because you've made him change his mind Chris must go away and leave me and his son behind If you're saying that because my husband has another wife My child has no future, like the dust of life

The funny thing to realize about Judy and her MGM backup boys is that they would have to be as short as she was.

R298 what's wrong with that? It sounds like a conversation. I hate lyrics that obviously sound like lyrics (e.g. Hammerstein).

That was for R299, God damn it!

R294, at the Ram It Inn?

At the no tell motel, I said “hi y’all”

To a wonderland of Lysol

--Prettybelle

Except that "hi y'all" and "Lysol" don't rhyme. But, yeah, other than that.

That’s why it’s in the worst rhymes thread and not in the best rhymes thread.

So why was it labeled "brilliant?"

Not for the accuracy of the rhyme, you moron

But, but, all that matters is how true the rhyme is!

How true the rhyme?

The writing either follows the rules and rhymes, or it doesn't.

If it doesn't, then there is no rhyme, only a lazy lyricist and a complacent, non-discerning audience. The people who care about and appreciate good writing won't be in attendance for that shit.

"Children will listen.

Guide them but step away

Children will glisten"

Just 'cause it rhymes doesn't mean you should use it.

have to agree with that one.

Wasn’t listen/glisten written for the Babs edition? It’s so gross.

I imagine a child emerging from the birth canal, covered in mucus and fecal matter, glistening under the bright hospital lights.

He's been unable to refuse her requests to tinker with lyrics, and he's prone to fiddle with them anyway. That one is an embarrassment.

Better far than a metaphor Can ever, ever be. Love! (I am love!) You are love! (I am love!)

When a sky full of crap

Always lands in your lap

Smile a big smile, and tap tap

Tap your troubles away!

[quote]I like the island Manhattan

It works if you put the comma in -

"I like the island, Manhattan"

Chita definitely sings "island". Rita sounds like she might be singing "Isle of"

She thinks of the Ritz, so it’s so schizo

I can forgive anything because of the next line: smoke on your pipe and put that in. Perfect!

"She'd only allow a man to see enough to fan his fantasy."

smoke on your pipe and put THAT in.

R310, it’s a little pretentious to lecture us about how important good rhyming is in a thread about bad rhymes.

[quote]He's been unable to refuse her requests to tinker with lyrics

In fairness to Barbra, she was absolutely right about Send in the Clowns.

When I first heard the song, I thought "Don't bother, they're here" would have been a much stronger lyric to end on.

I'm surprised Sondheim didn't realize that before finishing the song for the show.

I don't know about this bit in I Have Confidence from The Sound of Music.

Somehow I will impress them. I will be firm, but kind. And all those children Heaven bless them They will look up to me And mind me!

Is mind meant to rhyme with kind?

It worked in the context in the show, because there's an entire scene to explain it. He wasn't writing it to stand alone, and he was willing to fix it when several people recorded it any it clearly didn't make sense on the radio.

[quote]"I like the island, Manhattan"

"Manhattan" and "that in" don't rhyme.

You have to force it was an accent.

Sondheim would criticize any other lyricist for doing that.

Don't worry your pretty little head, R322. A 'little pretense' will hardly be noticed on a theater-related thread on Data Lounge.

Now run along home.

[quote]It worked in the context in the show,

That doesn't make it a good rhyme.

Nobody’s worried, r327.

We’re just laughing at you

Somehow I will impress them

I will be firm but kind

And all those children -- heaven bless them!

They will look up to e and mind

Me -- with each step I am more certain

R324 Yes, There's a later verse that is similar. I believe it is what's called an 'internal rhyme.'

Strength doesn't lie in numbers

Strength doesn't lie in wealth

Strength lies in nights of peaceful slumbers

When you wake up -- wake up! -- it's health-

-y! All I trust I leave my heart to...

R330 I think those "rhymes" where they slide the last syllable to the next line are forced and not rhymes at all.

R331 but the "Me" and "-y" (in healthy) also rhyme. I think it's clever and not an obvious rhyme.

R332 You are very generous.

whatever, r328. So busy trying to be right and you're not following along very well, are you?

I believe the original comment on that song didn't the merits of its rhyme scheme, but whether the "story" of the song was readily understandable. The explanation is that it was completely understandable in the context of the show, but not so much as a stand-alone song. This is why Streisand wanted the change, and why Sondheim made it. Not because of a flawed rhyme.

I'm not much of a grammar expert or whatever it's called, but there's a rhyme in "Sixteen Going On Seventeen" that always bothered me for some reason. I think because it doesn't sound right.

[quote]I am sixteen going on seventeen

[quote]Innocent as a rose

[quote]Bachelors, dandies

[quote]Drinkers of brandies

[quote]What do I know of those

I take issue with "bachelors, dandies, drinkers of brandies." Wouldn't a better rhyme and better grammar be:

[quote]Bachelors dandy

[quote]Drinkers of brandy

Liesl is using the term dandies for fashionably dressed men. (Hammerstein also uses it in "Sports of Gay Chicago" from Show Boat: "the dandies on parade.") Not a dandy bachelor. I think the lyric works well as it is. She's saying she doesn't know a thing about these three groups of men.

Candy is dandy, but liquor is quicker.

I checked the lyrics and it's "bachelor dandies." So, I amend by statement at R336, but I still think it works as is.

Drinkers of brandies rarely stop with one.

R339 don't you think "drinkers of wines" or "drinkers of beers" sounds odd? "Drinkers of wine" and "drinkers of beer" sounds better, no? Likewise, "drinkers of brandies" sounds off but "drinkers of brandy" sounds better. The only time I would pluralize something would be "drinkers of spiritS."

Sexy Sally or Suzabelle

I'll find something more usable

[quote][R339] don't you think "drinkers of wines" or "drinkers of beers" sounds odd?

Yes, since they don't rhyme with "bachelor dandies."

Have you met my good friend Mari-er

The craziest girl on the block

You’ll know her the minute you see her

No rides for us On the top of the bus In the face of the freezing breezes We reach our goals In our comfy old Rolls Or in one of our Mercedes-es.

Here pronounced "Mer-Se-Deezes."

"How Can Love Survive?" from "The Sound of Music" by Rodgers and Hammerstein In the Broadway show, cut from the movie.

R344 isn't that how the Germans pronounce it?

Sadie, Sadie, married lady

Meet a mortgagee....

That one drives me nuts. The bank is the mortgagee. Fanny is the mortgagor.

No one noticed this? They sent their leading lady out 8 times a week to get it wrong? And then again in Hollywood. Nuthin'? And Miss Streisand, famously controlling and obsessive about details... she never noticed?

R346 I think that's what is called poetic license. It's very common. TS Eliot used 'destroyment' to rhyme with 'employment.'

Worst? How about find two or three decent ones?

On my couch, you're welcum to crash.

And if you need help, I'll be there in a flash.

Barry!

What? It was funny.

This one ALWAYS makes me cringe (I've seen "Spelling Bee" at least six times.)

Blame it on your Daddalee and Mammalee

‘Cause depression runs in our family

"Miami,

You're cuter than

an intrauterine..."

The child is so sweet

And the girls are so rapturous

Isn't it lovely how artists can capture us?

R349 what musical is that from?

r344, HCLS? was the best song from the Sound of Music and one of the best ever from Broadway. To cut it from the movie was blasphemous. I nominate "there was a maharajah who hanged himself in one of her stockings." And it didn't even rhyme.

The reason "How Can Love Survive" and "No Way to Stop It" were cut from the film was to make Elsa and Max outsiders, while the immediate family sang. I don't think much was lost, since they replaced the songs with dialog.

r355 They included the songs in the Carrie Underwood version on TV. It was the first time I'd ever heard them (in context.)

R356 they're always included in stage productions. The movie was a different animal.

Take me to a park that's covered with trees Tell me on a Sunday, please

Take me to a zoo that's got chimpanzees Tell me on a Sunday, please

Find a restaurant that serves tiny green peas Tell me on a Sunday, please

Find a circus ring with a flying trapeze Tell me on a Sunday, please

Kind of hard to tell which one is not real, right? All of them are stinkers.

One day more to revolution,

We will nip it in the bud!

We'll be ready for these schoolboys,

They will wet themselves with blood!

R359 what's wrong with that? Is it the last line? I think it's a clever way of saying they'll be pissing themselves (i.e., very scared). And it rhymes (for that poster who complained about non-rhyming songs).

"R359, what's wrong with that?"

"Nip it in the bud" rhymed with "they will wet themselves with blood?" That sounds really stupid.

I think only 'bud' and 'blood' were supposed to rhyme, not the entire sentences.

can we lay of the Miz and rip apart Hamilton instead?

354, what don’t you understand about the thread title? We’re discussing bad rhymes, not what you consider bad lyrics, which, by the way, you misquote.

[quote]When I first heard the song, I thought "Don't bother, they're here" would have been a much stronger lyric to end on.

Nah. "Well, maybe next year" is incredibly poignant, while ending with "Don't bother, they're here" would not have been. It's perfect the way he wrote it.

"We will stanch that fetid flood" is better than nip/bud.

[quote]That one drives me nuts. The bank is the mortgagee. Fanny is the mortgagor.

Maybe it was a lost scene between Fanny and the bank manager, and she was introducing him to her friends, but the scene got cut out of town and they forgot to fix the lyric.

As r344 shows, at least Oscar Hammerstein knew the correct usage of "mortgagee."

R366 was that the original lyric?

"Nip it in the bud" sound ridiculous no matter what it's rhymed with. As I recall it was a favorite saying of Barney Fife: "Nip it in the bud!"

I initially heard it as "nip it in the butt" as in they were going to kick their asses.

I can't remember the whole thing but there's a lyric in Flahooley that rhymes "rain, dear" with "reindeer."

And one song in Into the Light rhymed "data" with "tomato." They had to pronounce them as "dahta" and "tahmahtah" to make it work.

[quote]Nah. "Well, maybe next year" is incredibly poignant, while ending with "Don't bother, they're here" would not have been. It's perfect the way he wrote it.

Oh, I wish I had known what you thought about it. I would have instantly changed my mind.

Ask me how do I feel, little me with my quiet upbringing

Well sir, all I can say is if gate I'd be swinging!

And if I were a watch I'd start popping my springs!

Or if I were a bell I'd go ding dong, ding dong ding!

Ask me how do I feel, ask me now that we're fondly caressing

Pal, if I were a salad I know I'd be splashing my dressing

Ask me how to describe this whole beautiful thing

Well, if I were a bell I'd go ding dong, ding dong ding!

I love the lyrics to that song, R374. I forget the name of the actress who sang it in the all-black Guys & Dolls, but she gives a wonderful performance on the CD.

"Little Lamb" in GYPSY is IMO one of the worst showtunes ever! The lyrics are hokey AF and WTF is she even singing about? The melody is nice, though.

r375 Ernestine Jackson

If she says your behavior is heinous

Kick her right in the Coriolanus

There were huge fights over keeping Little Lamb in the show. It was running running way overlong in previews and Laurents and Robbins insisted it be cut. But Jule Styne was adamant that it stay, finally threatening to pull his entire score if it were cut.

Styne was fucking Sandra Church, who was playing Louise.

R378, in the show, in context, that's actually wonderful.

R379, you nailed the real story about why the song remained in the show. Nonetheless, the show is so frantic at that point that a quiet moment works very well.

Gypsy opened out of town nearly an hour overlong and the egos that created the show argued virulently and endlessly over what was going to be cut.

Lots of chocolate for me to eat

Lots of coal makin' lots of heat

"Eat" and "heat" are fine as rhymes. The lyrics are clumsy, but that's not germane to what the thread title is asking.

It’s "lots o' coal makin' lots o' 'eat".

Still a stupid rhyme, bitches.

And what asshole uses the word "germane"?

R385 Germans?