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History Shows That Hillary Clinton Is Unlikely to Win in 2016

Republicans did well in the midterm elections, but there is widespread agreement that they face a demographic disadvantage in the 2016 presidential election, when many of the predominately Democratic younger and minority voters, who stayed home in 2014, will return to the polls. It’s true that an expected increase in turnout will benefit the Democrats, but may not be enough to elect another Democratic president.

The chief obstacle that any Democratic nominee will face is public resistance to installing a president from the same party in the White House for three terms in a row. If you look at the presidents since World War II, when the same party occupied the White House for two terms in a row, that party’s candidate lost in the next election six out of seven times.

The one exception was George H.W. Bush's 1988 victory after two terms of Ronald Reagan, but Bush, who was seventeen points behind Democratic nominee Michael Dukakis at the Republican convention, was only able to win because his campaign manager Lee Atwater ran a brilliant campaign against an extraordinarily weak opponent. (Democrats might also insist that Al Gore really won in 2000, but even if he had, he would have done so very narrowly with unemployment at 4.0 percent.)

There are three reasons why the three-term obstacle has prevailed. The first and most obvious has been because the incumbent has become unpopular during his second term, and his unpopularity has carried over to the nominee. That was certainly the case with Harry Truman and Adlai Stevenson in 1952, Lyndon Johnson and Hubert Humphrey in 1968, Gerald Ford (who had succeeded Richard Nixon) in 1976, and George W. Bush and John McCain in 2008.

The second reason has to do with an accumulation over eight years of small or medium-sized grievances that, while not affecting the incumbent’s overall popularity, still weighed down the candidate who hoped to succeed him. Dwight Eisenhower remained highly popular in 1960, but some voters worried about repeated recessions during his presidency, or about his support for school integration; Bill Clinton remained popular, and unemployment low, in 2000, but his second term had been marred by the Monica Lewinsky scandal, and coal-state voters worried about Democrats’ support for Kyoto while white Southern voters worried about the administration’s support for African American causes.

The third reason has to do with the voters’ blaming party gridlock between the president and congress partly on the president and his party. That was a factor in 1960—James McGregor Burns was inspired to write The Deadlock of Democracy by the Eisenhower years—and it was also a factor in the 2000 elections.

In the 2016 election, not just one, but all three of these factors will be in play and will jeopardize the Democratic nominee. Obama and his administration are likely to remain unpopular among voters. There is already an accretion of grievances among Obama and the Democrats that will carry over to the nominee. These include the Affordable Care Act, which, whatever benefits it has brought to many Americans, has alienated many senior citizens (who see the bill as undermining Medicare), small business owners and employees, and union leaders and workers whose benefits will now be taxed. Add to these the grievances around the administration’s stands on coal, immigration, guns, and civil rights, including most recently its support for the protestors in Ferguson.

There are, of course, many voters who would vote for a Republican regardless of who had been in office, but there are many voters in the middle (especially in presidential years) whose vote, or failure to vote at all, will be swayed by a particular grievance. That certainly hurt Al Gore in 2000, McCain in 2008, and could hurt the Democratic nominee in 2016. It’s a very rough measure, but you can look at the shift in the independent vote in 1960, 1968, 1976, 2000, and 2008 to see how the accretion of grievances can sway voters in the middle.

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by Anonymousreply 140July 9, 2019 1:56 PM

Whew! I much prefer Elizabeth Warren, anyway.

Hillary is a shill. She is the same old, same old, same old.

At this point in time, Elizabeth Warren is the ONLY politician that I trust. Honestly.

by Anonymousreply 1November 23, 2014 7:52 PM

No one goes to the polls and says I am going to vote x party because y party has had the presidency the last two terms. This is horrible and desperate analysis.

by Anonymousreply 2November 23, 2014 8:23 PM

I love when people do historical analysis and then put in "the exception." Well then that means your theory is invalid.

by Anonymousreply 3November 23, 2014 8:28 PM

I must be a bad gay and bad liberal democrat because I think we can do better than Hillary. I truly hope she doesn't run.

by Anonymousreply 4November 23, 2014 8:30 PM

Why do you say that, r4?

by Anonymousreply 5November 23, 2014 8:34 PM

Not really. The title clearly states she is UNLIKELY to win...it does not say she WILL NOT WIN. There are exceptions to every rule, including 'historical analysis'. Using your rational, you must not believe any weather forecast because they are not static.

by Anonymousreply 6November 23, 2014 8:34 PM

The author forgets Truman who served part of FRD's fourth term and then got re-elected.

Not exactly the same thing, but close enough.

by Anonymousreply 7November 23, 2014 8:37 PM

Dream on Freeper. Hillary is going to be the President in 2016.

by Anonymousreply 8November 23, 2014 8:40 PM

[quote] in the 2016 presidential election, when many of the predominately Democratic younger and minority voters, who stayed home in 2014, will return to the polls.

Isn't that about the most maddening sentence you've read today? If people would just turn out every time we wouldn't have these imbeciles running Congress.

by Anonymousreply 9November 23, 2014 8:44 PM

I doubt he is a freeper. This article comes from the Free Republic...not some right wing rag.

Domestically, The New Republic as of 2011 supports a largely modern liberal stance on fiscal and social issues,[3] according to editor Franklin Foer, who stated that it "invented the modern usage of the term 'liberal', and it's one of our historical legacies and obligations to be involved in the ongoing debate over what exactly liberalism means and stands for The magazine's outlook is associated with the Democratic Leadership Council and "New Democrats" such as former US President Bill Clinton and Connecticut Senator Joseph Lieberman, who received the magazine's endorsement in the 2004 Democratic primary; so did Barack Obama over Hillary Clinton in 2008.[6]

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by Anonymousreply 10November 23, 2014 8:44 PM

OP is proof that repugs are on a mission to aggressively infiltrate all social media to get their sick message across.

by Anonymousreply 11November 23, 2014 8:46 PM

Who are these simplistic people who think that anyone who posts any article about any Democrat that is not unequivocally upbeat is a "Freeper"?

I read The New Republic; I take an interest in American politics. I live in Europe. I'm not a US citizen. If I were, I'd vote for Hillary. Not everything is always as clear-cut as it seems, you know. In fact, that's the way your "Freepers" think.

by Anonymousreply 12November 23, 2014 8:47 PM

Yes, lets forbid freedom of speech, [R11]. All freedom of speech...pftt.

by Anonymousreply 13November 23, 2014 8:49 PM

You have to wonder what sort of education R8 and R11 received, with their jumping to conclusions. They've clearly never heard of "benefit of the doubt."

by Anonymousreply 14November 23, 2014 8:49 PM

Did you have to get the Hillary girl riled up on Sunday? Anyone catch her remarks in New York? She put her cankle in her mouth again. When talking about Obama's immigration move at some banquet:

"This is about people's lives, people, I would venture to guess, who served us tonight."

by Anonymousreply 15November 23, 2014 8:50 PM

[quote]Who are these simplistic people who think that anyone who posts any article about any Democrat that is not unequivocally upbeat is a "Freeper"?

On some topics, DL has an uneasy relationship with anything outside group think.

by Anonymousreply 16November 23, 2014 8:50 PM

For Rethuglicans to infiltrate, wouldn't the site have to have influence?

by Anonymousreply 17November 23, 2014 8:53 PM

Hillary will make history in 2016.

by Anonymousreply 18November 23, 2014 8:54 PM

Look at all the states that went for Obama in 2012 and tell me which ones are not going to vote for Hillary. I can see a candidate like Jeb Bush giving her a run for her money but right now I can't see anyone but a right winger getting the nomination. I hope they are stupid enough to nominate Ted Cruz.

by Anonymousreply 19November 23, 2014 8:56 PM

You're right. And history also tells us that all presidents are Male. and White.

by Anonymousreply 20November 23, 2014 8:56 PM

[quote]Whew! I much prefer Elizabeth Warren, anyway.

Yes, and her odds of winning Iowa, the Dakotas, Michigan, Wyoming, Alaska, the entire redneck south, the rural heartland of the midwest, Bush country and tobacco country pretty much guarantees she's a shoe in!

by Anonymousreply 21November 23, 2014 8:58 PM

The problem with citing "patterns" of history is that specific elections, differing issues, external influences and the rest make the patterns as much an accumulation of anecdotal data as a source for prediction.

A run by Clinton would face the usual challenges. However, Truman won after four wins by Roosevelt, Nixon almost won after Eisenhower, Gore won - apart from the Supreme Court-led coup d'etat - after Bill Clinton.

And the current issues cited - Affordable Care Act, gridlock, and the rest - will not affect Clinton in the manner suggested, and I'll match my take on this with the shallow and reflexive and sloppy thinking evidenced by the writer here.

Add to this the FACT that a Clinton run would have the wind of history behind it, with a woman poised to become president, and a woman who has proven herself as competent, smart and a leader, and the arguments start to crumble.

The people here who see the faults in Clinton use language that show an emotional and irresponsible manner of discourse. Warren would be as disgusted as anyone by it. And Warren is NOT electable. Clinton also has played to the middle, learning a lot about elections from her husband.

Clinton has baggage. She will be ruthlessly assailed on the right, with the usual disregard for truth that the right has show as the only way it can win elections. However, the Democrat coalition will reemerge to support Clinton and if she doesn't win with well over 330 electoral votes I would be very surprised.

R1, despite your peculiar use of "shill" - "unpleasantly focused on self-promotion" is more how I see the Clintons, I agree that Warren offers a real breath of fresh air. At this point a two-woman ticket would provide an astonishing opportunity for the American citizenry to assess itself. But Warren would not win at the top of the ticket.

by Anonymousreply 22November 23, 2014 8:58 PM

I have great respect for Hillary Clinton and I think she'd make a successful president. But the fawners on this site make me want to argue against myself.

by Anonymousreply 23November 23, 2014 8:59 PM

As long as it's a Democrat I don't give a fuck who it is.

There just can't be another Bush in power.

by Anonymousreply 24November 23, 2014 8:59 PM

Russ Feingold should have eventually become president in a fair world. One of the smartest nicest and honest politicians in history. One of the most tragic losses ever. Ironically it was big out of state spending that did him in. Exactly what he fought against. Look at his wikki page. He was right on every vote even when ge was one of the only ones.

Sherrod Brown?

I think a populist could win but Warren is not ready for prime time. She's better used in the Senate.

Hillary is making the same mistake as 08 she's not behind anything that will rally the masses to get exited. she should ditch her Wall Street friends and go a little radical on income inequality. It's ruining the country.

by Anonymousreply 25November 23, 2014 9:01 PM

"a woman who has proven herself as competent, smart and a leader"

Examples please.

by Anonymousreply 26November 23, 2014 9:01 PM

Such nonsense. Hillary will be president in 2016. Count on it!

by Anonymousreply 27November 23, 2014 9:03 PM

Hillary will win in 2016 for one simple reason: TBTB have hand-picked her, just like they did her husband, Obama, the Bushes, etc. If they want somebody in office, believe me, it's gonna happen.

by Anonymousreply 28November 23, 2014 9:05 PM

Hillary Clinton's biggest problem is Hillary Clinton. She's an rich privileged old white woman and she SOUNDS like a rich privileged old white woman.

How is she going to excite the coalition of the ascendant = Obama's America?

by Anonymousreply 29November 23, 2014 9:10 PM

I love how r1 rattled on about Elizabeth Warren while entirely missing the point of the article- ANY Dem will have a tough time in 2016. Actually, I think if anyone can disprove the article's assertion it's Hillary Clinton. Elizabeth Warren will lead to an 80s style electoral blowout.

by Anonymousreply 30November 23, 2014 9:14 PM

[quote] Hillary will win in 2016 for one simple reason: TBTB have hand-picked her, just like they did her husband, Obama, the Bushes, etc.

Then why didn't they pick Hillary in 2008?

I'll tell you why. She ran a HORRIBLE campaign. Horrible. If there was a mistake to be made, she made it.

Her campaign manager, Mark whateverhisnamewas, was to blame. But ultimately, she was to blame for choosing him.

The repigs have no one who can beat her, but I still don't think she's the one for us.

[quote] I love how r1 rattled on about Elizabeth Warren while entirely missing the point of the article- ANY Dem will have a tough time in 2016.

Who gives a fuck what the article said?

I'm expressing my support for Elizabeth Warren.

This woman IS the middle class, and she SUPPORTS the middle class.

She is the only person in the US Congress who is standing up for the average American.

Obama, Clinton, and every single repig are completely out of touch. What they say and what they do, are completely different.

I support Elizabeth Warren because she is out there fighting for the middle class. She's a no nonsense, no bullshit, straight talker.

Unfortunately, that's why she won't win. Honest, hard-working, good people just don't win in politics anymore.

by Anonymousreply 31November 23, 2014 9:37 PM

And Elizabeth Warren is a half-breed!

by Anonymousreply 32November 23, 2014 9:41 PM

Republicans hate and fear the Clintons like nothing else. They will get into a frenzy when Hillary runs.

And that will backfire and that will get her elected more than anything else.

She'll be more a woman president than Obama is a black president.

That said I'm a Sanders Warren kinda guy.

by Anonymousreply 33November 23, 2014 9:48 PM

[quote]Then why didn't they pick Hillary in 2008?

She was the backup in '08 (along with McCain).

The backup in '16 will likely be Biden and whoever the GOP nominee is.

by Anonymousreply 34November 23, 2014 9:54 PM

r34, can i borrow your tinfoil hat for my Wizard of Oz convention?

Thanks!

by Anonymousreply 35November 23, 2014 10:00 PM

Oh yes - the New Republic is infested with "freepers," you guys are so fucking literate.

It's the New Republic - not FREE Republic. Maybe that is confusing some of you so anxious to jump the gun.

You may not agree or dislike the "analysis," but putting your finger in your ears and shouting "freeper" at anything you don't want to here isn't going to do you any good, either.

And for the record, just in case anyone here sources from The Atlantic, or The Nation....those aren't "freeper" publications either.

by Anonymousreply 36November 23, 2014 10:02 PM

r35, the term is 'tin hat', not 'tinfoil hat'.

And I guess you believe everything your corporate masters in the media they own tell you?

by Anonymousreply 37November 23, 2014 10:07 PM

There's something symmetrical about R37.

by Anonymousreply 38November 23, 2014 10:09 PM

I'm not so sure Ohio will vote for Hillary, r19.

by Anonymousreply 39November 23, 2014 10:12 PM

I voted for Obama in 2008 to keep Hillary (named after Sir Edmund Hillary, you know) out of the race for at least 8 years.

I voted for Obama in 2012 because I couldn't vote for a Mormon in the White House.

For Hillary to win, she will need a lot of Republican cross-over votes - the ones Obama got. She won't be so lucky.

It all depends on who the Republican candidate is.

by Anonymousreply 40November 23, 2014 10:24 PM

Bump!

by Anonymousreply 41November 23, 2014 10:36 PM

I'd prefer Elizabeth Warren or Joe Biden. Even Bernie Sanders.

I can't stand Hillary and don't trust her at all.

by Anonymousreply 42November 23, 2014 10:38 PM

Well tough shit R42. None of your choices are remote possibilities.

The Warren crowd amuses me. None of them have studied the woman or bothered to read her platform. A Reagan republican being the liberals best hope!

But they hear she's "Cool" so they jump on the bandwagon.

Not like we haven't been through that before!

by Anonymousreply 43November 23, 2014 10:42 PM

Shut the hell up, R1. Elizabeth Warren already said she's not running. You say you trust her, but are you saying she's lied about this over and over?

by Anonymousreply 44November 23, 2014 10:49 PM

R44 is unhinged.

by Anonymousreply 45November 23, 2014 10:58 PM

Sherrod Brown is a much, much better choice. Super liberal yet disciplined and without the horrible baggage that Hilary brings with her.

He is rated 100% by the HRC, indicating a pro-gay-rights stance.

by Anonymousreply 46November 23, 2014 10:58 PM

[R40] please go to snopes.com and read the exhaustive research and proof that HC was NOT named after Sir EH. This was disproven around 2006. And the read is very interesting.

by Anonymousreply 47November 23, 2014 10:58 PM

R46 is on the right track.

There are SO MANY credible Democrats who should run for President.

Why do we always have to SETTLE for who the media shoves down our throats? I thought this was a fucking democracy???

Anyone who wants to run for President should do so, and we shouldn't assume that whomever the media anoints, is who we must vote for.

FUCK THE MEDIA.

I vote for who I feel is the best candidate. Period.

Unfortunately, most Americans suck up the swill that's fed to them. *sigh*

by Anonymousreply 48November 23, 2014 11:02 PM

The comment about servers was monumentally stupid. She shouldn't be attending functions served by illegals. She shouldn't be making assumptions about immigration status by looking at servers (racism), and tired meme that illegals do the work Americans are too lazy or snobbish to do is political suicide and wrong besides. It has NEVER been true. Let's find a candidate whose brain didn't stop functioning before the year 2000.

by Anonymousreply 49November 23, 2014 11:09 PM

[quote]For Hillary to win, she will need a lot of Republican cross-over votes - the ones Obama got.

Whaaaaaat? Obama won because he turned out Democratic minorities and young people in record numbers. Hillary will need to energize Democratic voters and maximize turn-out. (see the 2014 midterms for what happens when Democrats don't energize their base)

Democrats have to stop worrying about white Republican voters (who call themselves Independents) who might cross-over. Maximizing Democratic turn-out is how Obama won and it's the only way Hillary will win. FACT.

by Anonymousreply 50November 23, 2014 11:13 PM

Yeah, r50 I also wondered about that. I live in a red state and don't know a single Independent or Republican who voted for Obama.

Anyway, "history" is a silly barometer for political change, obviously the first time anything is done "historical" analysis forbids it.

Any analysis of 2016 in 2014 is completely useless. Who knows what's going to happen - two years is eons in American Politics.

by Anonymousreply 51November 23, 2014 11:18 PM

My observation of current America says that Kim Kardashian's ass has the best chance of winning the presidency.

by Anonymousreply 52November 23, 2014 11:20 PM

[quote] The comment about servers was monumentally stupid. She shouldn't be attending functions served by illegals. She shouldn't be making assumptions about immigration status by looking at servers (racism), and tired meme that illegals do the work Americans are too lazy or snobbish to do is political suicide and wrong besides.

This is exactly why she lost in 2008.

Her campaign (and her mouth) are severely undisciplined.

I really wanted to give Hillary the benefit of the doubt, but she's entering Mitt Romney territory.

She made racist comments back in 2008, and she's doing it again in 2014. I give up.

by Anonymousreply 53November 23, 2014 11:21 PM

My favorite thing about her campaign in 2008 was how her campaign was unaware of how caucus states awarded their delegates.

by Anonymousreply 54November 23, 2014 11:26 PM

Link to supposed racist comments she made back in 2008. You're criticisms are null if you make up stuff.

Campaigns mean nothing when it comes to actually being the President. This stupid meme needs to be retired.

by Anonymousreply 55November 23, 2014 11:32 PM

Liz Warren was voting Republican until the 90s and she represented corporate interests like Dow Chemical in her private practice. That being said she's better than Ms Republican Lite , Hil Clinton. Warren might not have the chance that Hil The War Monger has(because Hil appeals to the masses whoa re asses) but at least she has some principles. Hil is in the pocket of War Inc and her repub pals in the Senate.

R42 I don't like her either.She's a wolf in sheep's clothing.Even worse she's a shrewish cunt who never me a war she didn't like.

by Anonymousreply 56November 23, 2014 11:34 PM

If you self select a particular time period, you can prove anything.

I agree that Harry Truman should have been mentioned with George H.W. Bush.

Moving the time period back to the 1920s, Herbert Hoover was elected after eight years of Warren Harding and then Calvin Coolidge.

Having written that, the Democrats should not nominate Elizabeth Warren. She is too far to the left on domestic policy to win in the south, mountain states and much of the mid-west. What do know about Sen. Warren's foreign affairs experience? She is a first-term senator just like Pres. Obama.

by Anonymousreply 57November 23, 2014 11:36 PM

I meant:because Hil appeals to the masses who are asses

Even worse she's a shrewish cunt who never met a war she didn't like.

by Anonymousreply 58November 24, 2014 12:04 AM

Uh but if you run a bad campaign you never get to be president (see Hubert Humphrey).

by Anonymousreply 59November 24, 2014 12:04 AM

Amazing how few posters here lack critical thinking skills. Democrats and Republicans are just various shades of grey. Only a third party candidate represents authentic change. In hindsight Perot was correct when he said, "that giant sucking sound." No party deserves your loyalty, more in our community and in the country as a whole should be independent voters if you wish for true change.

by Anonymousreply 60November 24, 2014 12:10 AM

But you're wrong R57. One, Americans don't care about foreign policy. Romney's "American Exceptionalism" convention was unusual in American history in not giving the republican candidate any real bump. The people would be prefer to be isolationist.

Second, direct anti-rich and anti-corporate populism would win huge approval. It is the one strategy Dems refuse to try even though it is a sure winner.

by Anonymousreply 61November 24, 2014 12:12 AM

She won't be nominated, but is she is she will lose. However,it has nothing to do with history.

by Anonymousreply 62November 24, 2014 12:12 AM

And yet Perot was not correct in claiming to represent change. He himself has always been an establishment stooge.

by Anonymousreply 63November 24, 2014 12:13 AM

History shows a black man would not be elected president as well. History isn't ALWAYS the same.

I agree that the US needs new parties. The Republican and Democratic parties are totally corporate.

Something NEW - universal healthcare, worker's rights, fighting against the 1% control that is destroying the US. This is long overdue, but I don't know if any vibrant parties will emerge before the next presidential election.

by Anonymousreply 64November 24, 2014 12:15 AM

[quote]Second, direct anti-rich and anti-corporate populism would win huge approval.

This is true - you would get Democrats and even some of those Republicans that have been voting against their own self-interests.

The times are crying out for a genuine progressive populist

I guess everyone is playing video games or looking for porn, though.

by Anonymousreply 65November 24, 2014 12:18 AM

Except if it is Hillary v Bush voters will not want a Bush third term yet either. In any case, Truman won after more than 2 terms of FDR in 1948 and Bush Snr won after 2 terms of Reagan in 1988, the difference was they were more moderate than the presidents they succeeded. Nixon in 1960, Humphrey in 1968, Gore in 2000 were all more liberal or conservative than their presidential predecessors, Ford had no chance after Watergate and even McCain actually led Obama after the GOP convention until Lehmans went bust.

The fact Rousseff in Brazil has just won a fourth term for her party in the presidential palace and 2 terms after 2 terms of Lula should also encourage Hillary

by Anonymousreply 66November 24, 2014 12:27 AM

R61 Obama has raised the top tax rate and Wall St hated Dodd-Frank

R64 Sanders may well run as a third party candidate

by Anonymousreply 67November 24, 2014 12:29 AM

[quote]The fact Rousseff in Brazil has just won a fourth term for her party in the presidential palace and 2 terms after 2 terms of Lula should also encourage Hillary

Yes, because the U.S. and Brazil have so much in common. Really, if the lighting was dim you couldn't tell them apart.

by Anonymousreply 68November 24, 2014 12:30 AM

r17 The Gay community has tremendous influence right now, sweetheart.

And the Freepers are terrified of it.

by Anonymousreply 69November 24, 2014 12:43 AM

History showed that no Black American had ever won the Presidency.

History shows that no woman has ever been elected President.

Two historical facts.

by Anonymousreply 70November 24, 2014 12:51 AM

It will be great to see Hillary lose to Jeb Bush.

by Anonymousreply 71November 24, 2014 1:08 AM

R68 It shows that a party in power can win more than 2 terms and Rousseff faced a tight reelection battle against a pro business candidate

R71 Jeb won't even run, all the polls show Hillary beating him. The Clintons and the Bushes have an arrangement anyway, they are both close, Hillary will get 2 terms then Jeb's son George P Bush, who is half Hispanic and the new Texas Land Commissioner, will succeed her

by Anonymousreply 72November 24, 2014 1:25 AM

Boy are you delusional.

by Anonymousreply 73November 24, 2014 1:27 AM

The Republicans have no one, no viable candidates

by Anonymousreply 74November 24, 2014 1:34 AM

More delusion and wishful thinking.

by Anonymousreply 75November 24, 2014 1:37 AM

Hillary should wear lime green pant suits like Tippi Hedren in Th Birds.

How could you not vote for someone in a lime pant suit?

by Anonymousreply 76November 24, 2014 1:57 AM

"This woman IS the middle class"

Multimillionaire Elizabeth Warren is middle class?

by Anonymousreply 77November 24, 2014 2:06 AM

r71, you mean the one Bush with all the public dirty laundry? The one Bush making millions off of government educational contracts for defective software...THAT BUSH?

by Anonymousreply 78November 24, 2014 2:12 AM

I mean the Bush who will be your next president. Yes, that BUSH.

by Anonymousreply 79November 24, 2014 2:22 AM

r79, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

by Anonymousreply 80November 24, 2014 2:42 AM

This thread's R71, R73, R75, R79 = OP, r-1, r-3, r-7, and r-23 from "Following 2014 Drubbing, Democrats Fret Things Could Get Worse."

[quote]Liberals are elitists and couldn't care less about the rest of the country. [italic]"Following 2014 Drubbing, Democrats Fret Things Could Get Worse," r-23[/italic]

by Anonymousreply 81November 24, 2014 2:47 AM

"Politics isn't about how things are, it's about how things appear."

And Hillary appears she would win, if she's going to run.

And she's going to run.

by Anonymousreply 82November 24, 2014 2:51 AM

Oh my darn you caught me, R81. Yes, I actually post in other threads.

R80=weak.

by Anonymousreply 83November 24, 2014 2:58 AM

I think she should be careful of distancing herself too much from Obama or criticizing him much.

His numbers are down but many dems feel more loyalty to him than her and it's normal to have bad numbers at this point in a presidency. BC's and Reagan's were worse at the same time. When she and Bill have done things in the past few months I see a lot of push back in comment sections of people sticking up for him. She might alienate black voters too.

Democrats always run away from what they think is controversial instead of sticking up for good policy. I think Obama has done well in one of the most difficult eras in history. I wish he had done some things differently but those issues are from the viewpoint of a progressive, nothing I think Hillary would have done better with.

by Anonymousreply 84November 24, 2014 5:40 AM

Reagan and Clinton's numbers were higher at this point, they were worse 2 years into their presidencies

by Anonymousreply 85November 24, 2014 7:51 AM

r83, = right wing republicunt blowhard who obviously got lost on his way to FreeRepublic.

Begone!

by Anonymousreply 86November 24, 2014 3:58 PM

People like r8 are so sad and deluded to think Hillary the Cunt has any chance of winning.

by Anonymousreply 87November 24, 2014 3:59 PM

RNC releases video exposing Hillary Clinton’s ‘hypocrisy’ on immigration

This is just too perfect.

A video released by the Republican National Committee Friday points out Hillary Clinton’s “hypocrisy” in approving of President Obama’s use of executive power to deal with the immigration issue.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 88November 26, 2014 9:26 PM

Jim Webb is right now the only candidate running for president as a democrat.

by Anonymousreply 89November 26, 2014 9:31 PM

You have a serious problem understanding what hypocrisy means. Clinton had nothing to do with Obama's executive action.

by Anonymousreply 90November 26, 2014 9:35 PM

Republicans won't win the White House because they refuse to nominate anyone who isn't obviously mentally ill.

by Anonymousreply 91November 26, 2014 9:44 PM

Correction, r91.

by Anonymousreply 92November 26, 2014 9:54 PM

You have serious problems with comprehension ( typical liberal) as it was never implied that she did, R90.

by Anonymousreply 93November 26, 2014 9:55 PM

Then her remarks cannot be hypocritical, you fucking dumbass, r93.

by Anonymousreply 94November 26, 2014 9:57 PM

Keep your fingers, toes, and eyes crossed, R91.

by Anonymousreply 95November 26, 2014 9:58 PM

I think you're the same mentally ill liberal who can't read and never has any facts to back up your silly claims. R94. If she denounces Bush for "abusing executive power" but then turns around and supports Emperor Obama's executive order it's called hypocrisy. Christ! Can you comprehend anything?

by Anonymousreply 96November 26, 2014 10:02 PM

Where did she support Obama's executive action?

by Anonymousreply 97November 26, 2014 10:13 PM

Hillary Clinton: I Support Obama’s Decision To Take Executive Action On Immigration

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 98November 26, 2014 10:22 PM

I stand corrected on Clinton's position on the executive action of Obama. I'd have to see if the two things really line up though.

by Anonymousreply 99November 26, 2014 10:54 PM

“Unfortunately, our current president does not seem to understand the basic character of the office he holds,” Clinton said. “Rather than faithfully execute the laws, he has rewritten them through signing statements, ignored them through secret legal opinions, undermined them by elevating ideology over facts.” “Rather than defending the Constitution, he has defied its principles and traditions,” she continued. “He has abused his power while failing to understand its purpose. This administration’s unbridled ambition to transform the executive into an imperial presidency in an attempt to strengthen the office has weakened our nation.”

So, the totality of Bush's signing statements, secret legal opinions, ideology over facts, abuse of power, and unbridled ambition is the same as an executive order. It would seem that there is a distinction here.

by Anonymousreply 100November 26, 2014 11:01 PM

How on Earth could you read that quoted statement and not see that it applies to what Obama just did? Christ!

by Anonymousreply 101November 26, 2014 11:11 PM

Because there is a big difference between years of lying and getting the country into a war against a country that has nothing to do with the attack for which he blamed them, at the cost of billions and thousands of lives and a single executive action within his authority.

by Anonymousreply 102November 26, 2014 11:19 PM

Good grief! The issue is Hillary's hypocrisy. She supports Emperor Obama's executive order but she has criticized the use of executive orders several times in the past. That is hypocrisy, period.

by Anonymousreply 103November 26, 2014 11:49 PM

Nope. Clinton did not say anything resembling "all presidential actions must be in response to actions of Congress." She said the TOTALITY of Bush's actions far outdistance the powers of the office.

by Anonymousreply 104November 26, 2014 11:55 PM

Five Times Hillary Clinton Claimed She Wanted To Limit A President’s Executive Power

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 105November 27, 2014 12:03 AM

A signing statement is legislating from the White House, changing the intent of the law. An executive action is using the authoritg delegated by Constitution and law to the president including the authority to grant criminal pardons.

by Anonymousreply 106November 27, 2014 12:05 AM

You don't seem to understand that Clinton can be for limiting a President's executive power and not be for removing all power from the executive. Get back to us when you find Clinton saying that Presidents have no authority to execute any actions whatsoever.

by Anonymousreply 107November 27, 2014 12:10 AM

Hillary would fuck a German Shepherd on stage if she thought it would get her an electoral vote.

by Anonymousreply 108November 27, 2014 12:11 AM

Again you have absolutely no ability to comprehend anything you read ( or hear). You always embarrass yourself in these exchanges. You are the perfect representative of a liberal.

by Anonymousreply 109November 27, 2014 12:13 AM

"Again you have absolutely no ability to comprehend anything you read ( or hear). You always embarrass yourself in these exchanges. You are the perfect representative of a liberal."

I'm sorry...was there an actual argument in there? Clinton is against egregious abuse of executive power, but not against the use of established executive authority.

by Anonymousreply 110November 27, 2014 12:15 AM

you people don't seem to know how magazines are sold or more importantly how clickbait works.

It's clickbait for Hillary lovers and haters alike.

The analysis is weak and unsubstantiated. 50 years ago this type of bullshit would have been regarded with no more seriousness than the Enquirer's psychic predictions for the new year.

If Hillary runs, Hillary wins.

fill in the blanks if you like.

by Anonymousreply 111November 27, 2014 12:17 AM

Yes, R110 my argument is that you have no ability to read the link and comprehend it like the rest of us. You continue to embarrass yourself but I don't mind, you always do.

by Anonymousreply 112November 27, 2014 12:22 AM

Duh.

Everyone has Clinton fatigue.

Slay the Hildebeast.

by Anonymousreply 113November 27, 2014 12:23 AM

You have no actual argument. And you speak for no one but yourself.

by Anonymousreply 114November 27, 2014 12:29 AM

R114= I'm embarrassed because I can't comprehend what I read. I can't understand that all of those words mean that Hillary wanted to limit executive power ( I don't even know what that means). Poor liberal me.

by Anonymousreply 115November 27, 2014 12:35 AM

I understand the story at the link fine. You don't seem to understand that there is a giant chasm between what Bush did (and Clinton was responding to) and what Obama did.

by Anonymousreply 116November 27, 2014 12:37 AM

The problem with using history to predict the future with regard to presidential elections is that the sample is too damn small. We've only had 44 presidents, and every election year is different.

I can remember it being absolute received truth that the only way democrats could win was with a southerner on the ticket. Or that nominating a senator was a likely loss for either party...(Obama became the first senator of either party elected president since JFK, as would have Hillary or fucking McCain in 2008!)...or that every president elected in a year ending in zero would die in office, until Reagan didn't.

What did history say about the likelihood of a black man being elected president, say, ten years ago?

by Anonymousreply 117November 27, 2014 12:38 AM

Obviously you don't understand it at all. She spoke out at least 5 separate times against executive power ( you keep saying 'did' as if we are talking about a singular event). An executive order is an executive order. What you also don't comprehend is that many of her arguments against executive power are the same arguments being used against Obama. This is getting ridiculous.

by Anonymousreply 118November 27, 2014 12:53 AM

You are right that this is ridiculous. Clinton did not say ALL executive actions are illegitimate. An executive order within the President's authority is not the same as an executive order not within his authority. So all executive orders are not the same.

by Anonymousreply 119November 27, 2014 1:02 AM

Provide proof to back up everything you just said, R119. How absurd.

by Anonymousreply 120November 27, 2014 1:05 AM

History also shows that a black man is unlikely to win (It's only happened twice in our history)

History shows that a woman is unlikely to win (it's never happened before)

All this is bogus nonsense. The past is not the present and is most certainly not the future. Trends and correlations are not unassailable facts that never change.

by Anonymousreply 121November 27, 2014 1:17 AM

Again, that's not actually an argument. That's just setting up a ridiculously impossible requirement...that of course you don't submit yourself to.

Clinton criticized egregious abuse of executive privilege in Bush. She clearly doesn't think Obama's executive action is anywhere near that.

You would condemn Hitler for his actions as leader of the German nation, I assume. But that doesn't mean you condemn all actions of all German heads of state. There is an obvious distinction there. A similar distinction exists between condemning illegal and egregious executive actions and condemning all executive actions. And it is right there in her words.

by Anonymousreply 122November 27, 2014 1:18 AM

In other words you can't back up anything you've said with proof so you decided to ramble on with gibberish hoping to convince yourself that you're right. Game over.

by Anonymousreply 123November 27, 2014 1:22 AM

Again, you make no actual argument or point to no actual flaw in the reasoning I provide.

by Anonymousreply 124November 27, 2014 1:24 AM

The fact that you think I need to make an argument after I've posted concrete proof ( that speaks for itself) to actually back up what I'm saying shows that you have poor comprehension. Once again, provide proof to back up your claims. You keep going on and on because you're embarrassed to be so obviously wrong. Provide proof.

by Anonymousreply 125November 27, 2014 1:33 AM

No, your argument is that Clinton says all executive actions are illegitimate, and she doesn't. Post where she says that and I will stop.

She criticized the entirety of Bush's actions, including but not limited to executive directives.

by Anonymousreply 126November 27, 2014 1:37 AM

Again no proof to back up anything you're saying. I'm the only one here who has backed up my statements. You can't do the same because you're obviously wrong but can't admit it.

by Anonymousreply 127November 27, 2014 1:40 AM

Hillary is the best. Don't destroy the fantasy. Thread closed.

by Anonymousreply 128November 27, 2014 2:35 AM

When officials at the University of California at Los Angeles began negotiating a $300,000 speech appearance by Hillary Rodham Clinton, the school had one request: Could we get a reduced rate for public universities?

The answer from Clinton’s representatives: $300,000 is the “special university rate.”

This shit is another big reason why I hate her.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 129November 27, 2014 3:06 AM

R108 is right.

by Anonymousreply 130November 27, 2014 3:53 AM

I don't think that from coast to coast one could find even a single voter who is excited and committed to Jeb Bush.

Even with the whole GOP clown car of nutbags potential candidates, and Hillary Clinton's baggage you can't say the same about ANY other potential candidate. THAT'S why I think predicting a Jeb Bush nomination is baffling.

by Anonymousreply 131November 27, 2014 5:58 AM

I agree that Hillary is unlikely to win despite all the positive news from MSNBC. She's got too much baggage, and many Americans are just worn out hearing about her and how she might or might not run. I think she'd make an excellent president, but, face it, our attention is about 30 seconds in this country. However, no fucking way W won in 2000 except by the grace of the decision from the SCOTUS junta. Funny how all the ballot disappeared when the press demanded them to recount themselves.

by Anonymousreply 132November 27, 2014 6:35 AM

Schumer is probably running, he might win against Hills.

by Anonymousreply 133November 27, 2014 7:09 AM

Schumer?! Oh my sides!

He wouldn't carry any place other than the Upper East Side and Boca.

by Anonymousreply 134November 27, 2014 2:29 PM

Even Obama is turning on her. Saying voters want a new car smell when talking about a 68 year old potential candidate is pretty nasty.

by Anonymousreply 135November 28, 2014 4:11 PM

Interesting to read this thread in retrospect.

by Anonymousreply 136February 15, 2017 7:16 PM

[quote] Dream on Freeper. Hillary is going to be the President in 2016.

[quote] Hillary will make history in 2016

She sure did.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 137February 15, 2017 9:54 PM

" OP, r-1, r-3, r-7, and r-23 from "Following 2014 Drubbing, Democrats Fret Things Could Get Worse."

Well they sure didn't get any worse did they sweetheart?

by Anonymousreply 138May 14, 2017 7:48 PM

R138 And it sure doesn't take a talent to be a cunt with hindsight...

by Anonymousreply 139May 14, 2017 7:58 PM

what about 2020?

by Anonymousreply 140July 9, 2019 1:56 PM
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