FU, Chelsea Boys!

Ooh gurl, calm down and get some nut in you.

Per the adage: When you get older, you get the face you deserve.

Theirs are protease-ravaged, because they were cunts.

Now is your time, OP. The tables have turned - now you're the catch.

I'm sorry, miss, but I have troubles of my own.

Similar experience for me, only it wasn't uber-gay Chelsea boys, it was just the standard so-called "gay community" of a large Midwestern city.

I've never felt welcomed or accepted by the "gay community". I've never fit in. I feel just as much an alien in a gay bar as a straight one sometimes.

All my closest friends are straight, and only a few friends are gay (and no, they're not CLOSE friends).

And the tables never "turned" for me either.

I've just always been a square kid in a round world, never quite fitting in anywhere... even decades later as I grew up and grew old.

Never really found my 'clique'. Never really found my 'community'.

And now here I am, haven't had a date in almost six years, haven't had any sort of sex with anyone other than my hand in years... and that's all very unlikely to change before the lights go out forever.

There's no repairing it now.

Yes OP, I'm sure they all want you now.

What special snowflakes you all are.

I love revenge threads, and OP, you got yours! :)

OP, you're a cunt. Shut the fuck up and find other assholes like you. Then you'll have friends!

How good of God, in all His infinite wisdom, to give them a horrible deadly disease to punish them for not thinking you one of the pretty girls!

R8 = early '00s barebacker twink, now poz and lonely

R9 = poz

Don't be such a glum gus, R4. We all get old and no one wants to fuck us anymore--even people who are partnered and married end up being platonic companions in their later years. Your situation is very common. The people who are the happiest are the ones who find other passions and meaningful work. Heck, most older people are thrilled if all they have is good health.

R4, your insecure post speaks volumes.

It's your fault, not the fault of any "community," that you're alone.

You have to learn to love yourself, or even *like* yourself, before you can have a partner, or even friends.

You're gay. Accept it. Be open about it. You are who are you are, you're in the situation in you're in, you have the body you have. Own it, and you will not be alone.

See a therapist. It will work. Good luck.

R13 loves to blame victims. I'm betting he's Republican.

I'm sorry, did you think you were helping? Or do you just get off on being a complete asshole.

And for the record, I was out and proud before being out and proud was easy. Fucking save your lectures, thanks.

OP sounds like the gay Elliot Rodger, a.k.a. the Santa Barbara mass murderer who posted those creepy YouTube videos.

Guess what? You are just as shallow and superficial as those Chelsea queens. It never ceases to amaze me how oblivious some ugly guys are about their hypocrisy. You only want to fuck hot guys and are mad that they don't give you a chance? Maybe they want to fuck hot guys too and you are not in their league. It's a vicious world. Deal with it.

I would like to care.

Hmmm....How long ago did you get here, OP?

I don't know anyone with facial wasting who's under 45 years old. If you're near that age I hate to tell you, it's high time you grew up.

All these years of "the gay community"- apparently some monolithic organization with nefarious pursuits of crushing you-wasn't doting on you makes me ask, what sort of guys exactly were you interested in? Something tells me you craved attention from all the very hippest, hottest, body-beautiful types. You remember, the ones who were so hot and handsome? I take it as a self-professed" Plain Jane", you yourself weren't giving the time of day to other pudgy, non-gymtastic guys yourself now were you? Was there something wrong with those non-scene guys, or do you just not like guys who remind you of you, you know, the not so desirable types?

There is no "gay community" really, at least not in many of the traditional ways. It's just people, lots and lots of people, some of them great and some of them not so great. You know what? They owe you nothing, they're just trying to get through the day, just like you. To get all bitter and hateful and actually take some delight in their suffering shows just what a toxic little Mary you've been all along. I guess they dodged a bullet avoiding you!

I hope you find some sort of "solution" to be part of.

r2, r10, r11, r13!

What a Bitter Betty you are!

Why all the rage, Dear? There are no victims, only volunteers. Quit volunteering!

Not raging, R18, just a truth-teller. No one is entirely a victim.

I'll never understand why gay boys think they only have to walk into their first gay bar and everyone should fall all over themselves to ask him to dance and introduce him to all their single friends. What do you think would happen to an average-looking, schlubby straight guy who tried to walk into the hottest trendy straight club? I'll tell you: he wouldn't even get in the door.

If your goal in life is to be accepted by the A-list crowd, then hit the gym, make some money, and learn how to dress well. If you just want to be accepted for who you really are, then learn to accept yourself as you are and carry yourself with confidence. There's more to life than just showing up and expecting everything you want to be handed to you.

Assholes always defend being assholes by claiming they're "truth-tellers"... rationalizing being a complete asshole.

That;s the problem with Chelsea boys--they made themselves the A-list by excluding everyone else. Sort of like in high school.

If you believed them and played along, they won.

Most of us grew up and did fine by ignoring them.

I have a husband and a kid--love my life. So many of them are still trolling for one night stands on Grindr.

Gay is NOT Chelsea.

R20 = former NYC twink, poz and lonely. Now living in, I'm guessing, Hoboken?

I get what the OP is saying. We might be around the same age - 40 years old here and I moved to Chelsea when I was 25. However in my more mature years I realize now it had more to do with my own insecurities that kept me from being a part of any real community. And to be honest those certain cliques seemed to be riddled with insecure people anyway.

It's interesting now that it's not really the facial wasting but the heart attack and stroke rates that are climbing because of years of steroid abuse just so you could take your tank top off at Roxy ten years ago. What healthy 40 yo drops dead from a massive heart attack? I.e, Quentin Elias.

I have plenty of problems and shortcomings, R23. The difference between us is that I take full responsibility for them and don't sit around whining how it's the world's fault for not taking care of me.

OP is a troll. Literally and figuratively.

I know what OP is talking about when walking down the avenue in Chelsea during its height as the gay mecca.

It's not that you hope everyone will sleep with you, you just wanted to be acknowledged. If you didn't look amazing, they wouldn't even look at you.

You could walk down the entire avenue and no one would look at your eye--that can feel very isolating and disconcerting, a pariah.

Even the straight world doesn't treat gays as badly.

Ironically, everyone has gotten older and pudgier. The cool gay places are now in Hell's Kitchen, north of Chelsea.

The straights have taken over Chelsea and no one gay thinks much about the place any more.

The whole Chelsea scene is based on rejection. It is like a big runway. OP, you were looking for love and assurance in the wrong place.

R2, "protease-ravaged", REALLY? Please die in a grease fire with the other trolls. You won't be missed.

bump

[quote]I don't know anyone with facial wasting who's under 45 years old. If you're near that age I hate to tell you, it's high time you grew up.

R17 is right. And "protease-ravaged"? Who has taken protease inhibitors since 1998? (Cue a post about "Crix belly", 24/7 diarrhea, and the grim side-effects of that AZT drug.)

OP does seem a bit of a cunt, smarting over ancient perceived rejections and finding delight in "facial wasting" among men old enough to collect retirement Social Security.

OP has no idea that the different groups he's talking about are not the same people.

Everyone seen in Chelsea is a Chelsea boy

[quote]I was utterly ignored--not buff, not gorgeous, not wearing the right clothes, etc., I was invisible to them.

Being well-groomed and having a nice body are important. Why don't some people realize this? Is it really so hard to look nice or to have a toned physique?

Um, R27 - it's New York City. There are literally millions of people walking down the streets every day. It is impossible to acknowledge each and every one of them, and in fact, most New Yorkers make it a point not to make eye contact with anyone out of politeness and not wanting to seem rude.

But what, you wanted every hot guy to give you a double-take and acknowledge how you were a special snow flake? Were you, And tell me, how many people did you acknowledge - not just hot gay men, but the average-looking ones, or black teenagers, or Latino housewives, or senior citizens? Were they all invisible to you too?

And I'm sorry, but there are some ugly people in this thread - and I'm not talking physically. To crow about other people's "facial wasting" and possible AIDS as a sign that you've "won" over them demonstrates vile pettiness and a lack of compassion and soul. If you felt you were ignored, (1) you were probably projecting, as noted above, and (2) I can't blame the people who passed you by, because there really wasn't much of a worthwhile person to see there, no matter what your outside looked like.

There was a reason for the emphasis on perfection...it was a way to not look like you were dying. AIDS really fucked us up socially and culturally in ways we are still dealing with today.

For a 40-something today coming of age in a world that was openly contemptuous of homosexuality and with the staggering fear of stigma and death by AIDS, it was especially wounding to feel rejection and derision because you didn't look like a Ken doll. I understand all of OP's emotions except for his finding vindication in the illness or death of the Chelsea Boys.

When you're a gay man, the worst feeling in the world is that of being rejected by other gay men. It's one thing when breeders do it, you almost expect that. But for gays to shun other gays is just cruel.

Yeah, except what type of "rejection" are we talking about, and can you honestly say you've never rejected another person?

Romantic rejection? Well, newsflash, NO ONE is entitled to anyone else's romantic attention or praise, whether you're gay or straight, man or woman. And it's something that everyone experiences, even attractive people, so it doesn't single you out as some sort of martyr who's suffered at the hands of cruel gay people.

Social rejection, as in people don't want to hang out with you? You're responsible for making your own friends. And also ask yourself why you wanted to associate with these men in particular (especially random strangers on the street) and have them acknowledge you. Was it influenced by their looks? Were there other, less good-looking men that you passed on by as you tried to get entrance to the "cool" group? If so, why should you be surprised when good-looking guys pull the same thing on you - you focus on their looks in determining they're worthy of your interest, but they're supposed to overlook yours?

And did you try to gain acknowledgment and acceptance from everyone (men of different races, men of different attractiveness levels, women and lesbians, old and young), or only the people you were interested in?

If you want people to pay attention to you, make them pay attention (but not in a crazy shooting-spree kind of way). Be smart. Be funny. Be successful. Be rich. Be artistic. Be interesting. Don't just sit there like a bitter lump complaining about how no one is paying attention to you, because bitter lumps aren't interesting.

Yes, gays, hated by society, do the best they can to dissociate from each other.

Obsessed by being the pretty ones, Chelsea boys just exude hatred for those aren't pretty enough. Welcome to high school redux.

Yeah, fuck you, Chelsea Boys!!

[quote]Yeah, fuck you, Chelsea Boys!!

OP was complaining that they wouldn't let him do that. Considering how they ended up, he dodged several bullets.

[quote]When you're a gay man, the worst feeling in the world is that of being rejected by other gay men.

Well, to be fair, OP is really only concerned with having been rejected by the hot Chelsea boys. He seems rather indifferent to anyone else. It was their approval that he craved and never achieved. After all, he set up a construct -- which was destined to fail -- where he allowed them to define the gay community for him. So, the resulting bitterness is hardly surprising. Extremely unappealing and not very flattering, but pretty much to be expected.

Move to Trenton. We don't have that problem down here. We don't have white people, either.

Hot guys want other hot guys until age necessitates substituting a rich guy for a hot guy.

My experience is that the people who complain the loudest about being rejected by "the community" are spoiled assholes who are a) lying; and b) have done more rejecting than being rejected by. The people who really suffered this rejection in a serious way typically blamed themselves or held themselves at least partly responsible, even if they did not in fact deserver. It's a curious thing.

A paradox if you will

The irony is the twinky Hell's Kitchen boys have completely replaced Chelsea Guys as archetypical gays because Chelsea guys are older nowadays.

Then maybe you shouldn't assume your experiences are the same as everyone else's, R45.

Excuse me, buddy, I've really got problems of my own.

I was going to tell OP to get a blog, but he's too old for that.

Perhaps he could write a newsletter and make photocopies of it.

"I hate those Hell 's Kitchen twinks--they think they are the shit and completely ignore me!"-- most Chelsea boys

With muscles and good looks comes rank. If you're near the top of the hierarchy, you don't care about the people beneath you.

Cool story Bro! Get counseling to help repair the damage you have inflicted on yourself by seeking validation from others.

R53 makes a good point. The lesson here is not to value people for their looks alone. If you can get beyond the shallow values, OP, you'll be happier and will have gotten something from the experience.

Yes, fuck you all!

The worked our buff boys are now moving in droves to Woodside, Queens, which has become the new gay mecca of NYC.

Yes, New York's hottest club is DROVES. Located in Upper Lower Woodside, this club has everything.

This thread proves once again: No one hates gays more than other gays!

Say anything, anything that someone doesn't like, and you are automatically labelled a Republican. This place has become so totally fucked up, why would anyone come here for advice or understanding? R58 is correct....No one hates gays more than other gays.

A whole new generation of complete idiots has invaded the DL. Gay-on-gay bullying appears to be the acceptable norm.

R58 R59 are sadly, so right. All respect for each other has disappeared. And we're foolish enough to think that the rest of the world might someday accept us. Won't ever happen. Talk is cheap.

The gay on gay bullying occurs on the streets of Chelsea, it didn't start here.

It's not a violent bullying but a psychological one.

In my experience the meanest gay men are usually the ugly ones and the fat ones. They're the ones who are the bitchiest and are the first to reject anyone who doesn't meet their weird standards.

It's an "attack before you are attacked" thing I guess.

I remember being sneered at by a drag queen once when I was young and just coming out. It hurt my feelings at the time but then I saw her a couple of weeks later out of drag. Oh my god. As a guy she was a skinny, gawky, goofy-looking nerd with a big nose. I called her Beaker from then on.

Those hot Chelsea guys who you think rejected you are probably perfectly nice guys who probably didn't even notice you. They were focussed on themselves and their friends and the guys they found hot. Don't blame them if you're not much to look at.

It's not that the Chelsea Boys just ignore you, they actively sneer.

Fuck them--particularly now that they are getting older, have those pot bellies, and have stopped plucking every hair.

Gays have moved away from Chelsea, the young ones concentrated in Hell's Kitchen.

Let the Chelsea freaks get a taste of their own medicine

I understand OP's point. Its not just in Chelsea but in every gay community. There are two groups: us and them.The groups weren't started by 'us' (average, normal, maybe geeky/intelligent gay guys). And, we've tried to be friendly (our naive, young selves thinking all gays liked one another) and intigrate. But soon you realize the buff and beautiful only like the buff and beautiful. My friend L and I figured out league we'd been relegated to. All the working out wasn't going to change it.

Life goes on. Mean girls are mean girls everywhere.

It is a shocking dose of reality when you first come out thinking: I'm finally home. Only to realize your home is on the other side of the gay tracks.

Funny my experience in gay bars is that there are actually very few good looking guys. Straight bars have many more handsome men. Plus I don't know what it is but gay guys look way more weathered in their 40s than straight guys. Gay looks don't last as long.

Or, could it be that your delicate snowflower sensibility coupled with tha smell of bitterness was a turnoff to people and THAT'S why they ignored you?

Like most people, I have both been ignored and turned down in bars. I've also met some handsome, nice guys. I've been both part of a large group of guys having fun and been the guy standing alone with no one to talk to.

In all cases, I neither blamed other people nor bemoaned my luck in the genetic lottery.

The difference between OP and the guys he now delights in rejecting is that they had the callowness of youth to blame for their actions, but have since, through experience (and perhaps illness), matured. Whereas, OP still revels in playing little games and smiling at the unhappiness of others.

Decline to date guys because of who they are, not who you imagine they were when they were younger.

You're a prize, OP.

Those Chelsea Butch Queens? .. They never cramped my style. The represented a small minority of good looking gay guys in Manhattan.

I lived in the Village during that period. It was easy to ignore them. Just jump on the A Train at West 4th St. and head up to the upper west side, where hot, non-pretentious, "normal" gay gays hung out. Lots of bars, back rooms and baths that were 'swingin' . I had a blast. Met my "future husband" there, too.

Out of thousands of available homosexuals on an island like Manhattan, there was no need for OP to deprive himself with his tunnel vision concept about a couple hundred guys. Speaks more about him than the Chelsea Boys.

[quote]Out of thousands of available homosexuals on an island like Manhattan, there was no need for OP to deprive himself with his tunnel vision concept about a couple hundred guys. Speaks more about him than the Chelsea Boys.

Exactly. OP was so obsessed with his Chelsea Boy idols and was so desperate for their attention and validation that he couldn't see that any other handsome, sexy men even existed.

He could only see what he wasn't, rather than what he was.

[quote]He could only see what he wasn't, rather than what he was.

A shallow, insecure, hateful little cunt?

Chelsea boys made themselves out to be the peak of gaydome but, not surprisingly, everyone else believed them.

Their lives are no better than yours--they complain that the good looking guys ignore them too.

Hilarious how these hierarchies work.

[quote]Hilarious how these hierarchies work.

Only on stupid people.

It's an east coast thing. They don't sneer the same way in San Francisco.

I came out later in life (mid 30's) and was able to move right into the "it" crowd at the time. I had money, good looks/body, a decent sense of style, so I had no trouble being accepted as the new guy in the fab group. I found out very quickly that the "it" crowd consists of nothing but very neurotic narcissists who don't even really care about their so called friends and would push a friend in front of a bus if it was to their own benefit. I did this for 1 summer and had a fairly good time making very superficial "social" friends - but realized I wasn't that kind of person. People may think I'm pathetic because I don't strive (or at least, I quit striving years ago) to be in that crowd, but trust - they can fucking have it. Sneer, roll eyes, guffaw all they want - they're they pathetic ones and deep down, OP, they know it. And - the worst - I couldn't keep up with all their insulting and trying to "one up destroy" each other (like Boys in the Band kind of crap). CONSTANT cuts about who was a whore, what someone did when drunk, who fucked who in the bar, she this, she that. NO THANK YOU - that's just gross to me, no matter how hot you are on the outside, if you call someone "she" or a "twink", etc., I cringe almost in half.

Thanks you R20. I'm sick of people who think the "gay community" owes them anything. Ain't nobody got time for OP's self-pity party.

ironic to see the bellies on those Chelsea queens as they're getting older.

Walked through Chelsea recently--it's filled with straight people now.

The Chelsea boys have lost.

I found the best way to get away from the Chelsea attitude.

I MOVED out of NYC!!

Life is so much better

How times have changed .......they're Hells Kitchen queens now aren't they ?

OP --- you need to get over it. If you're the bee's knees now .......enjoy it. Better late than never

There are two qualities shared by all homosexual males: (1) Sexual attraction to other males; (2) Self-absorption.

For you guys who were ignored .. they weren't ignoring you, you didn't exist. Their entire attention was on themselves and the kaleidoscope of body parts dancing through their minds.

Bump

What a great idea, bumping this two-year-old thread of shit.

I miss this thread!

Good for op.

I remember in the late 80's all the Chelsea Boys were actually all the muscled up gay guys, I was never a muscled up guy but still did just fine at the bars. NYC has all types, thats what made it so much fun, it was always fun to dress kind of preppy and go hang out at the Spike or the Eagle, where you could still end up picking up a leather guy. But the East Village had sexier more natural guys and Boy Bar & The BAR bar are where I met most of my long term fuck buddies and boyfriends.

It took me a long time before I discovered the “normal” gays in the East Village Bars.

Thank goodness I did. Chelsea was a downer when I came out

Chelsea has gone straight. It’s so weird to think that, 20 years ago, it was a thrive gay neighborhood.

As always, the straights moved in after the gays made it a destination. It was literally a scary place before the gays discovered it.

In those 20 years, the look of the ideal gay male has changed to. While muscles are still in, those weird out of proportion muscles are not. Gay men of all ages are seen as sexy, particularly daddies. Thinks are a thing.

Times change

Thankfully Christopher St never had the same attitude as Chelsea. Living there from 1990 to now, there was a much more democratic, real gay scene. Multiracial, femmes, trans, butch, twinks, eldergays, borough boys, tourists, suburbanites. So grateful that was my scene instead of 8th ave in Chelsea. Opened me up to the possibilities of sexiness outside the muscled Chelsea queen scene. Died down from its heyday - but unlike Chelsea, it’s still going strong with lots of gay bars mixed in with the ongoing gentrification. Unfortunately, the piers which were a truly democratic gay scene, have been taken over by straights mostly. But still a little bit of flavor. Long live the original gay scene - Christopher Street!

Christopher street became the elder gay refuge. I’m happy to have found it too

I thought this thread was going to be about the comic that was never finished, which is a shame.

What's up with Chelsea boys nowadays?

Balding heads, fat bellies and had to move out because they can't afford Chelsea any more?

Wow that was a really ugly post by OP.

Girl live your life. Don't let others define you.

Squirm before me, worms!!!

I AM NOW YOUR QUEEN!!!

This entire thread is from 1998

Chelsea boys don’t exist anymore, neither does gay Chelsea. They’ve joined the San Francisco 70’s clones. Move on OP, you’re probably too awkward / introverted for any social group. Being popular isn’t your style, embrace it.

A person talking about CHELSEA BOYS is stuck in 1999. Like others have said that scene started disappearing by 2006.

I left Chelsea in 2006 and moved to Washington Heights!!!! Love it up here. Was just in Chelsea today for about 2 hours and couldn't wait to get on the #1 train back uptown. Sex is everywhere in the Heights.

[quote] I went to Chelsea (NY) because that was gay-central. I was utterly ignored--not buff, not gorgeous, not wearing the right clothes, etc., I was invisible to them. I got really depressed, thinking I was rejected by, not only the gay-hater but gays.

This is such bullshit.

Chelsea (NY) was not necessarily ever gay-central--one could easily claim it was the Castro, or Palm Springs, or Boytown in Chicago, or really wherever.

You CHOSE Chelsea as gay-central because that was your ideal of what the gay male life was like. And you did not fit your own ideal, and are now blaming THEM.

I am not a fan of Chelsea boys at all, but it is ridiculous to whine you were not valued there when you yourself chose to go there because you liked the look of the men there, and yet you did not meet the stereotype you craved.

So getting fucked is being welcomed into the community? The community of one night stands? That's what the gay community is for you? Having one night stands?

You were sold a bill of goods by people who basically wanted to make you dissatisfied. And then sell you products that will allegedly eliminate dissatisfaction.

How's that worked out for you?

I used to go to SPLASH in the mid to late 1990's. Splash in those days was the Grand Central Station of gay bars in NYC. There was a very good looking cool guy I used to see there frequently. He was about 36 years old, slim, and in spite of being somewhat disheveled he looked like he could have been a model. Boy if he wasn't attracted to you, you'd be TOTALLY INVISIBLE to him. Just the type of guy the OP would have hated. I remember one night someone walked over this VGL guy and put his hand out shake. The COOL guy just looked at him and laughed.

So much of this sort of anger at not being picked for whatever team is at least partially self-directed - mad at yourself for not being X enough. You retain all that anger for them and the knowledge that they probably didn't think much about you at all after the rejection only stings more. Even seeing them rejected and unhappy in turn will never erase the path. Stopping bleeding your energy on old hatreds.

Time wounds all heels.

The whole tone of the OP's post is basically this:

Love this thread! It needs a revival

It is very simple, OP, the gay world you sought belongs to the pretty. Period. When younger, you probably were very ordinary looking. Wherever you came from, you fled to NYC for gay freedom. You and hundreds of others better-looking. Walk the streets of Chelsea and you'll get looks and offers if you are pretty. If ordinary, it's hard on young dreams. Now … get real, those AiDS-ridden are not hitting on you now because you're all they can get. Maybe you've grown into your looks, whatever looks you have. Like unto like is a rule; did you go where people look more like you than beauties? So Chelsea boys are vapid. NYC is still full of gay boys who are not, who came to NY for schools and careers, who have jobs and are worthy people, better than the Chelsea Boys who hurt you. And please don't buy into the cliche of "A-List Gays" having gym bodies, nice clothes, money, and a college-educated career …. look at the Sayville Ferry …. shoe clerks in group houses, mostly. Some sweet guys, but not the movers and shakers of Manhattan.