Why are nurses so insufferably self important?

Go away OP. Nurses are beautiful people. What have you done for anyone lately?

What makes people make unfair generalizations about others like OP is doing? I've known nurses who are great people

PDFtT

Uh oh. I think I've hit a vein.

OP

As a RN I am insulted by your generalization.

OP - try harder next time.

If you're contact with nurses is management meetings they aren't wearing name tags with RN.

There academic credentials , BSN, MSN or PhD would also be on the name tag.

Fag "nurses" are the worst.

I've had great experiences with nurses. It depends upon the person. If you are good looking and charming they'll treat you accordingly. If you act like a self entitled cunt they will respond in kind.

OP, I'd be willing to bet my next paycheck you don't feel that way about MALE nurses.

Just sayin'.

I love, love, love nurses.

Having gone through family health issues, they were the ones who were our strength.

I know a few DLers are nurses. Thank you for everything you do.

Fuck you, OP.

There is a lot of truth to what the OP is saying, I am not a physician but while my physician friends understand how incredibly valuable their nurses are...they have some strong words about the "nurse culture" after a drink or two.

I think you misspelled "Doctors" as "Nurses", OP.

R11 is a dumb black-and-white thinker like OP. Not all nurses are the same

Teach the nurse how to do it, R4

OP, if you sense an attitude from nurses, it's likely because of the ignorance and attitude of managers like you. You're classic "management" of medicine who is not qualified to be assessing medical professionals because you have clearly made NO effort to actually know what medical professionals do.

I'm a trauma surgeon, and I can tell you for a fact it's nurses who are on the frontline of medical care. From a cost perspective -- and as a "manager" you should know this -- hosptials and other medical facilities cannot afford to have doctors and surgeons monitoring patients. And yet hospitals refuse to hire enough nurses to cover service, refuse to pay overtime, and then are shocked when nurses refuse to work overtime or on vacation unless they are paid what they deserve.

Outside of surgery, nurses not only generally have better bedside manner but administer drugs and ensure patients are not in peril. They also do the grunt work on the floor. In surgery, they do more than assist. They monitor patients and surgeons' work. If you want to prevent something being left behind in a patient, you depend on the entire surgical team to do it, including the nurses. Surgical nurses are also critical to patient safety.

If you would get your head our of your managerial ass and actually spend time with patients and seeing what nurses do, your attitude might change.

R11

What pray tell is 'nurse culture' ?

And, r11, even more nurses would have "strong words" about the god-complexed doctor culture after a drink or two.

I know nurses that are assholes, sorry. One was my dad's ex-wife who tried to steal drugs from the facility where she worked so she could poison my dad. They forced her to resign. That's it.

At a local hospital, the nurses work twelve hour shifts, which sucks, but they are also nasty as hell and you're frightened to criticize them for any reason. They didn't change my sister's sheets for five days. They left blood on the floor for three days. I had to go buy Lysol and clean her room myself. They left unemptied bedpans on the sink in her bathroom all day until I asked them to remove it. No toothbrush for days. I finally got her pillowcases changed by going to the linen closet and asking a passing nurse to give me pillowcases.

Later, we met another woman who had been on the same ward at the same time. Exact same experience, down to the blood on the floor. When she had to go back, I gave her a gift basket full of Lysol, paper towels, and dry bathing items, with a throw blanket. When she told a nurse she was cold and asked for a (warmed) blanket, the nurse took the one out of the gift basket instead. When I asked a nurse in a different hospital about it, she said all the nurses there were bitchy and that's why she got a job elsewhere.

Later, my dad was forced to go there, because he needed surgery and his doctor refused to do it anywhere else. He was discharged after outpatient surgery in the freezing cold at 10pm in a hospital gown with shit on his butt. I asked the nurse to clean him up. He told us "they'd clean him up at the nursing home." I called the home, they were horrified and gave him a bath when he got there. He later got a staph infection and died.

It's a beautiful hospital in a very nice neighborhood, by the way. You would never guess. Now our family refuses to go there.

r18, I'm so bored I could slap you.

OP is what's wrong with healthcare -- and is a shit-stirring troll to boot!

R18, all nurses are not perfect, but the hospital you're describing sounds like it should be closed, and it's probably management that is where failure lies, and might have something to do with nurses being bitchy. It's not an excuse -- and my guess is all nurses there are not fairly described that way. But some hospitals treat nurses like slaves.

No medical professional should allow blood to remain on the floor --- but it sounds like that hospital had no janitorial staff, and expected nurses to do it.

As medical care becomes more costly and in places like the US remain profit driven, it's going to get worse.

They are not, not remotely. Nor are any particular group of people unless you have an ax to grind, which has nothing to do with that group of people.

[quote]Why are nurses so insufferably self important?

My first job was in a hospital and the nurses were insufferable. They looked down at everyone. I only worked there for less than 2 years. That was enough.

My sister and another relative also worked in hospitals and can't stop talking about how snobby and self-important they are.

I believe it just comes with the profession. Like pilots.

Just A Programming Note: The 2014 Nurses Ball begins today on "General Hospital." Weekdays at 2pm on ABC, and at ABC.com or On Demand.

You can tell by reading R23 and OP that they are almost certainly the bitchiest, most insufferable people on the planet in the real world.

Most professionals can probably sense their entitled, arrogant shit coming from a mile away, and by not indulging in it, R23 and OP think it's everyone but them that has an attitude.

r18's "story" has everything but the hounds yapping at his hospital gown exposed behind. No toothbrush for days? Why didn't you pack one for your father? Blood on the floor for three days? Not believable. The laziest nurse doesn't want to be exposed to blood bourne pathogens. There is a protocol for cleaning blood, vomit and feces from bathroom fixtures, floors, bedrails, etc. and the housekeeping staff would do that. Bedpan sitting on a sink for hours? A CNA would have the job of emptying that. Same with the linen change. And bathing the patient. Unless your father was in ICU or CCU. You seem to be confusing other staff members on the unit with the "nurse". Not that I would believe that every CNA on the unit would be so uncaring, irresponsible and negligent. These people work like horses, and are some of the kindest people I have ever met. Your stepmother stole drugs from the hospital to kill your father and ADMITTED it? And she got away scot free? This cockamamie testimonial sounds like a mash-up of E.R., The Good Wife and Columbo. Epic fail. But it did make me laugh.

R18

If that happened then it's wrong.

However, hospitals cut nursing staff to the bone to balance their budget.

As a result, your nurse probably had 10 patients to care for. There is no way things don't get missed or oversights made.

Nurses are overworked plain and simple.

OP deserves to bleed to death

Nurse DeFarge:Good morning everyone!

Rose Nylund: Not for you, Nursie nurse nurse nurse!

I'm glad you enjoyed the hilarity, R26. It's actually all true, and my father actually did die. He had a fever the next day and ended up having total organ failure. It was a staph infection that caused it.

I never saw anyone come in and clean the floor the whole time my sister was there. Yes, I'm well aware blood on the floor is unsanitary. You'd think the nurses might know that too, or care. When she went to another hospital, they had a staff member come through every couple of hours whose sole job was cleaning the floor. Unfortunately a lot of doctors here don't have rights to practice at this cleaner hospital, and with all the insurance upheavals we've had, my family members have been forced to change doctors over and over. Especially when it comes to specialist surgeons, we have had very little choice about where surgery is performed.

My sister was so doped up, I had no idea she forgot to pack a toothbrush. She didn't want to complain, because the nurses were nasty as hell and every request was greeted so angrily we were afraid to ask for anything, even cleaning products for the room. I had to buy everything, then clean the room with the door shut, but couldn't empty the bedpan, because they were measuring her urine.

I couldn't imagine doing what nurses do - dealing with other peoples shit and piss and blood and worse day in day out. I'm not cut out for the "caring professions" though and happily work with inanimate objects (books in my case). They deserve to be a little smarmy.

Stop, r30. You're killing me:) Didn't you write that your father developed a staph infection AFTER he was transferred to the NURSING HOME? How would the hospital and nursing staff at the HOSPITAL be responsible for that? I smell a lawsuit. Call us.

OP - go back to your cube and get to work..

Most nurses are awesome, but I'm sure, like any profession, there are some duds. My sister is a nurse and she told me a story about a patient who shit inside his mattress. He ripped open the side of the mattress and DEFECATED INSIDE THE MATTRESS!!!! She and her co-workers had to clean that crap up. Pun intended. Anyone who has to do that has my respect.

In that case, r18/R30, you should have put that hospital on BLAST. Letters to the editor, local TV muckrakers, the whole nine yards.

AFTER you and your attorney wrote a scathing letter to tbe hospital board; the CEO, COO, and CFO; the charge nurse of every shift; chief of nursing services; chief of social service; and chief physician. How in the FUCK did you let yourself become so impotent?

Rule Numbers 1-100 for hospital patients and their families: YOU are your own advocate. If your loved one is incapacitated, it's on YOU, family, and close friends to stay there 24/7, ask questions, even be a pain in the ass if necessary. Suck up to the good nurses/CNAs, and let them know what's going on. Ask them what THEY would do in your situation.

If hospital staff realize you know what you're talking about--you ask questions about the medications being pushed, go out to the nurse's station and ask for blankets, for clean-up, ask attending physicians what they're looking for/finding, ask, ask, ask.

And educate yourself about your/your loved one's condition, so you will have some basic understanding of what's going on, and treatment protocols. "Why did you take my Dad off the Plavix and put him on Effient and Lisinopril?" "My dad and all his brothers had violent, paranoiac reactions to Haldol. I understand he's being aggressive, and needs calming. I know Haldol's your preferred choice, but may we try Ativan or Klonopin--or even Seroquel--as long as we monitor his blood sugars?"

They tend to roll over you less if they realize A) you're no passive idiot who thinks Doctor/Nurse Knows Best; B) you're not going away; and C) you are monitoring both your loved one's condition AND the medical staff.

And you can do this in a dispassionate, friendly, nonthreatening way--until they make you do otherwise.

I've had quite a lot of contact with nurses in the last couple of years and I can't say I've run into any self-important ones. They've been professional, kind and quite calm considering circumstances.

I am curious, though, why so many of them are clinically obese. I used to be 70 lbs overweight and can't imagine doing their required workload carrying any extra weight around.

Srecial Message: Miss Florence Nightingale's Birthday is May 12. I trust that the DL Health ans Wellness Comm, has planned a proper observance for that day.

Not the OP but is anyone else getting the impression we have a troll running loose in this thread posting over and over and over?

I do. There's no way DL has THAT many nurses, particularly female nurses with apparent daddy issues.

I call bullshit.

Stress eating, r36. Sugar gives an energy boost so it's the quick fix "drug" of choice for many of us when we need to get it done. Missed or abbreviated meal breaks and being too tired to cook a nutritious meal once home so it's take-out, delivery and junk food. Working the off shifts, evenings and nights, tends to put on the pounds for all of the reasons I cited, and a couple that I have forgotten. It's a hard fucking job. Most who go into nursing do it for all the right reasons. Sometimes the most difficult part of the job is not dealing with the people in our care but the family members who transfer or take out their own issues with the individual who is sick onto us. It's part of the job. But it's a bitch. And when I read a post like r35's I am thankful that I am retired. R18 has issues with his step-mother. Who just happens to be a nurse. If any of his story is true. It's unclear who he is talking about. He references his father's poor care and then in another post he talks about his sister. Anyway you look at it, he sounds like a nightmare to deal with.

..and to my point at R38, most of the vitriol started immediately and came in rapid succession, take a look at the time stamps.

Yep, we've got a rapid nurse frau on the loose. Most of the thread is one damaged cunt losing her mind because the OP decided to bitch about the nurses she/he works with.

R38/40 - You're not an empiricist or sane, are you?

But, please do tell us more about this "rapid nurse frau" with "daddy issues." This has the potential for fun.

R41 = Our nurse troll. Is your head hurting yet r41/troll? It hurts, doesn't it?

Yes, even European nurses are like this. Some countries like Sweden have the worst bitches alive. Japan would be the only country with huble nurses. I've worked in a hospital in Sweden, yep not going back there anytime soon. I broke my arm and the nurse was so kind. Maybe I was getting gaijin treatment. But I'm korean so I don't think she knows.

OUCH, 42! Your rapier wit just did me in. But isn't it a touch early to be so in the cups?

In my 20 years of healthcare experience I have found RNs in the ICU, NICU, ER and oncology/hospice to be angels on Earth. I have found in general the nurses on the med/surg units (especially the ones on day shift) to be lazier, cuntier, and less caring. Part of the problem is the nurse/patient ratios, I guess they get overwhelmed and have to tend to only the most important of their tasks. So, med admin and charting, yes. Chasing after an aide to wipe shit, not as important. The meds and charting could affect her license if not correct.

Don't get me started on RNs who leave patient care and go into quality management, utilization review, or discharge planning. They're always fat and middle aged and have mostly checked out of their profession waiting for retirement.

To my point at R38, see R44.

We have a troll monitoring the thread doing rapid-response posting, clearing her cache and posting over and over and, ovah.

R44, the voices in your head, they're getting louder, aren't they hon?

Maybe you need to change your colostomy bag. Or someone else's.

All nurses have psychological issues.

It's one of the "Rules to Live By."

[quote]In my 20 years of healthcare experience I have found RNs in the ICU, NICU, ER and oncology/hospice to be angels on Earth.

Could not agree more. They understand that they're dealing with people at their most scared and vulnerable. I'm not the most religious person, but God bless 'em.

I worked as a security guard at the hospital.

Things I saw/experienced at the hospital:

- patients ran away from their rooms. Nurses would order us to run after them but we told them repeatedly that we're not allowed to touch any patient. We had to do a report and call the police. The hospital and the security company had strict orders for security not to manhandle any patient. Only hospital staff or the police were allowed to come into contact with rogue patients. Nurses always thought we were the hospital's police but they couldn't be bothered in figuring out it wasn't the case which created endless conflicts.

- I saw a nurse stealing jewelry from a dying patient. I had to file a report and the police were called in.

- I would often accidentally catch nurses smoking or sleeping on shift during my rounds of the hospital. None of them were ever reprimanded by their actions. They were above it all.

- a patient's wallet was stolen and when I went there to investigate the nurse on the 4th floor started yelling at me why I wasn't running after the thief. There were no eyewitnesses, the thief had been gone for some time and there was no one to run after. But the nurse was happy to yell at anyone.

- even though I worked there for two years none of the nurses knew the other employees around them by their first name. This includes janitors, folks dealing with meals, etc, which were always the same people day in day out. They always referred to them as janitors or security guards. We in turn knew the nurses names and their standing.

- a patient in a wheelchair was brought in by ambulance. One of the snotty nurses told the paramedics to place the ailing patient in the waiting room instead of the emergency room. The nurse determined that the patient's case wasn't critical enough. Minutes later the patient had a severe hemorrhage, blood was gushing out of his nose like water from a tap. The waiting room floor was covered in blood. Well it became an emergency with all the ER staff running and rushing to save the old man. I have dozens of such stories.

- I had to bring the corpses of dead people from the ER or from any patient's room to the morgue. None of the nurses bothered: in warning security about the condition of the bodies or anything to look out for i.e. if we accidentally came in contact with the body (we often had to physically lift the corpses from the stretcher...in some cases purple puss would ooze out of the body bags...), with retrieving gloves, etc.

- I had to help nurses on a floor where a bat was caught in the screen of a washroom's window. The screens were bolted so I couldn't open them. I took a towel and grabbed the bat from the mesh and walked out of the washroom. All the nurses screamed at me to flush the bat down the toilet. Many of the them were running at the other end of the corridor in terror. I walked in the adjoining room, opened the screen-less window there and let the bat out. It happily flew away.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Been there...

OP, If you're lucky, you'll never end up on my floor, CICU.

Please, don't worry. We will take VERY special care of you.

There are good and bad nurses. I can kind of see where the OP is coming from. Some nurses are known to look down on others. One of my former neighbors was a CNA and she told me that some nurses treated CNAs like shit. When I was in college, some of the nursing students use to cut down non-nursing majors all the time. While nurses do provide needed services, other occupation groups do help people quite a bit, but they sometimes never get the praises that nurses get.

USA - My dad recently became ill with hospital-acquired pneumonia and both shift nurses refused to call a doctor or request a pneumonia test although he had clear and obvious symptoms. Next morning the doc said it was clear the moment she saw him that he had pneumonia and testing confirmed.

For people who didn't understand the post and got confused:

My dad was admitted to ER unable to urinate. He was catheterized and sent to a nursing home to await prostrate surgery. The nursing home seemed ok. We had to wait for the surgeon to become available, and couldn't change surgeons due to insurance issues.

Then he was admitted to a hospital for outpatient surgery. Hours later, he was discharged, and I drove him back to the nursing home. He stayed overnight, then the nursing home doctor discharged him in the morning. The day after, a visiting nurse examined him at home, and found he had a fever. She felt he had a infection and told me to take him to the E.R., which I did. They found him to have a staph infection, his heart failed, and his other organs shut down. He ended up in ICU in a coma, then was transferred to a hospice and died there. He went from minor surgery to coma in three days.

Yes, I'm aware the hospital was negligent, but which one? They screwed up his meds at both nursing home and E.R. Hospital. He was given extremely strong diuretics in the E.R. that were supposed to be for a few days only. Doctors at both the nursing home and ER Hospital kept blindly refilling them for over a month, until a doctor at ER hospital mentioned he was still taking them. When I asked why, when we had been told it was dangerous for him to take them more than a few days, the doctor said "I don't know," and stopped them. He had kidney failure by then.

Yes, I know I should have been aware of every med at all times. You don't have to tell me that. I felt I had killed my father, because I should have caught it. For a couple of years I was severely depressed because I felt he would still be alive if I had caught it. And he probably would have. Nonetheless, both the doctors and nurses should have noticed too. It was their job. That med was supposed to be for short term emergency room use only, not daily long term use at that dosage.

My sister and her friend went the same hospital for surgeries. It was dirty. The friend's husband and I had to stay there all day every day because they were forgetting to serve meals, and had to clean the rooms ourselves. My sister had morphine dementia. She was hallucinating and trying to jump out of bed right after leg surgery. They told me to stay there all night and watch her, but I had been there 20 hours and just couldn't stay awake. I asked them if they would tie her down so I could sleep and they said no, although she was a danger to herself and completely out of it. They weren't going to watch her. They wouldn't call a doctor either.

My father later went to the same hospital and it was dirty. Yes, I know there should be a lawsuit there somewhere, but when you've just spent the month between Thanksgiving and Christmas in a hospice every day, watching your father die, somehow it's hard to get up the energy for untangling this mess. I was through fighting with hospitals and putting myself through hell. Six months later my sister was in (another) hospital again with a tumor. I was burnt out.

We had zero control over what hospital due to insurance and doctors' hospital privileges. If we had, my father never would have set foot in there. I tried to get him into another hospital, to no avail. And many nurses in other hospitals have told me that hospital does have a bad reputation.

Male nurse here. Some of OPs points are true. We often live in a state of PTSD because of what we've seen. Sometimes it's manifests itself in unpleasant ways.

Don't nurses just clean out bed pans?

Nurses are just angry they're not smart enough to be doctors.

Nurse practitioners are the absolute worst. They like to present themselves as actual MDs and look uncomfortable if you actually ask them if they are 'the doctor'. They are more arrogant than most MDs.

r18 said "the same ward." Wards went the way of horse-drawn milk wagons.

Sorry R58, "the same floor." Obviously different rooms, but all the same floor and same nurses' station. Actually, just two or three rooms apart.

Have you SEEN the ridiculously simple curriculum a college nurse has to take to get a BS in nursing? In college they bitched about 1 semester of inorganic chemistry and a NUTRITION class.

Any monkey in Africa can get a BS in Nursing.

I find that they are either like saints or the biggest cunts on the planet. You get some that are so caring you could cry but many are self absorbed bitches who stick together like glue protecting each other from patients who complain. Don't get me started ....Having spent years with a critically ill family member in many hospitals I can say easily that the average doctor had NO business joining the profession since they do not care and are miserable garbage.I have seen assistant nurses who show more compassion than doctors or RNs. Surgeons? THE WORST, god complex and the most hateful of all. Money is their only obsession and they make plenty. Its a corrupt business like all big business.Many don't even carry malpractice insurance anymore since they know how difficult it is to get them in court yet many are monsters.

R53, After your first negative experience, why keep going back to the same hospital? And if you felt so strongly about this being negligence, why in God's name didn't you contact a lawyer? We're talking about serious compilations and death here. No Excuses.

I've been a nurse for about 18 months. The worst part of my job is some of the staff...cunty nurses and angry aides. I worked in corporate for a few years and never encountered this much cunty nastiness and drama.

Then again, the rest and that includes almost all of the doctors, are amazing!

R 26 you are living in a dream yet most hospitals are a nightmare. I have seen things I can't repeat because they make me ill. Hopitals and the whole system is a money making scam. We are NOT the best healthcare in the world, far from it. Right wing BS . We rank something like 26. Other countries do a far better job for a fraction of the cost. Anyone who thought a Doctor goes into the profession to "help" people is on something because they were told by mommy that its lucrative and some of them are as dumb as rocks. Nurse's work 10 times as hard as the average doctor but they too are a mixed bag. You can get a wonderful nurse or a nasty drip. Once I asked one for test results and she acted like she was doing me the biggest favor. Its all our fault you understand. If all these people were made to NEVER FORGET we pay their bills, we are the customer and they work for us then things would change and change fast.

R57 -- absolutely. I've met some wonderful ARNPs. Others… Rather arrogant and dismissive and they simply don't know how much they don't know. Many insist that they have the "exact same training" as me (an MD -- but you know, without the whole 5 years on call bit) and will go so far as to introduce themselves to patients as "Doctor" (a huge no-no) all the while flying the "Nurses Rock!" flag and eschewing the MDs who are supervising them.

R64 -- For a nurse when they are on, they are on. They are performing shift work, so when they are on the clock they are working their collective ass off. But when they clock out, that's it. No one bothers them. No pages, no phone calls, no critical lab results. They go home and that's it. They may work 12 hour shifts but usually that's three days a week. Physicians on the other hand take call both during and after residency. Hospitalists nowadays can spend 18 hours a day or more in hospital for two weeks at a time. A physician's training is longer and more vigorous. I remember in medical school and residency being awake and on my feet for 36 hours still taking care of patients, some of them critical. No nurse can ever say that. Furthermore, you are not a "customer." You are a patient. You are not ordering a pizza. This is your health. This is your life and your well-being. You can get a guarantee with a pizza, but in life (including your health) there are no guarantees. What you think you need as a patient isn't always what you actually do need. Great that you have a Master's degree in a particular field/are a perfectly intelligent person and access to WebMD. You still do not have the detailed knowledge of the pathophysiology of your disease and how it is treated, not to mention potential side effects. Health care providers do not work for you. They work WITH you to have the best health outcome. Never forget that and while you're at it, dial it down a couple of notches.

Word to the wise: be nice and appreciative to your health care providers (no matter what letters follow their name). It works wonders and I can say this having been on both sides: as physician and as patient.

R62, we didn't always go to that hospital. When we had a choice and could go to the E. R., we went to a hospital 10 minutes away. The problem is, in order to have non-emergency surgery, you have to have it with the surgeon that is part of your primary care doctor's group. If that surgeon has privileges at a certain hospital, and he only goes there certain days or weeks, that's where you're going. You have no choice. The next time my dad could have gone to another hospital with that surgeon was months down the road and he was going to have a catheter until he had surgery. He hated it and wanted it over.

My sister had a particular orthopedic surgeon and that was his hospital. In both cases, the primary care doctor never went to the hospital. The hospitalist doctor in the group, a total stranger, was the only one we saw outside of the surgeon. You must be referred by the primary doctor, though, or the insurance company won't pay. The only alternative is changing your primary doctor and his group, which means changing every single doctor you have and starting over from scratch. A nightmare with chronically ill or disabled people with complicated medical needs. There's also no way to know ahead of time if you'll end up in that same hospital anyway.

I would have loved to have sued the shit out of the people that handled my father's case. I would have had to sue three different medical facilities and all three would have claimed it was the other guy's fault. Since my dad went to all three within 36 hours or less, it would have extremely difficult to prove. Also, after six months of caring for two sick people, one in the hospital, then one died and the other one gets cancer, running to the lawyer every five minutes wasn't even in the cards. That doesn't make me a liar. I'd just had enough.

R65 When we go home we are not always off. We are frequently bombarded with phone calls regarding patient behavior, patient meds, patient's appetetite , refusal of care, family members concerns and behaviors, and my absolute favorites, can you stay and work a double shift? Or,I kow it's your day off but is there any way you can come in and work?

Its easier for someone to call and annoy us at home than to check patient records.

R67 -- Respectfully all of that should be done in the sign out at the end of the shift. A thorough sign out means minimal disruption at home if you work inpatient. (But yes, it is obnoxious when the nurse coming on isn't paying attention or chooses not to do their own detective work.) Very rarely is it that a nurse off-shift is called re: a critical lab and having to act/treat it that day. Many people in all sorts of professions get phone calls re: work schedule issues, doctors and nurses included. Both are tough fields -- but hey, we didn't go into them because they're easy, right?

This is another misogynist thread, since the majority of nurses are women.

Most nurses are people who couldn't hack truly oppressive, stressful work in a business environment, so they go into nursing where they're coddled and paid handsomely and protected by unions and easily able to pose as martyrs, (I'm a NURSE! Do you think I do this for the pay?! I want to HELP PEOPLE!).

The OP of this thread was pretty much spot on and the responses reveal what a tiresome bunch of harping females have infested Datalounge.

While I love and respect the profession, it's inundated by self-important twats, many of them middle-aged women who have always had victim and martyr complexes.

[quote]Having spent years with a critically ill family member in many hospitals I can say easily that the average doctor had NO business joining the profession since they do not care and are miserable garbage.

You and too many other patients are under the mistaken impression that physicians are there for your customer service.

They are there to lend their medical training and experience to help to be as healthy as you can.

They aren't there to be your best friend, your shoulder to cry on, to make you feel better or any of that trash.

Of course they need to be respectful and make you feel as comfortable as can be expected but too many people have this warped perception of what their doctor is supposed to be.

(Not a physician, that is just the reality)

I used to work in a hospital pharmacy. Most of the nurses were okay. There were some that were assholes, but they were generally the ones who didn't know what the hell they were doing and they would be pissed off at everyone else because of their own fuckups.

About a year and a half ago I was in the hospital for a week. The nurses were wonderful. They had 6 to 8 other patients besides me. One night I was really sick and my nurse was in with me constantly. I don't know how she took care of me and all her other patients. The room was dirty, but that's housekeeping. Nurses don't have the time to clean the rooms, nor should they. You don't want your nurse cleaning up a bunch of shit/blood on the floor and then coming into your room and administering your medication.

Now nurses who work in a doctor's office are a bunch of bitches. Especially the ones who work for an HMO dr. When I worked in a retail pharmacy I would constantly have to call them about drugs not being covered by the HMO and the nurses would scream at me as if I was choosing not to cover the medication and they would scream if I didn't know what drug the HMO covered. The dr they work for signed up to this HMO. I didn't. Pharmacies handle over 400 different insurance plans. We don't know the ins and outs of each plan. Billing insurance companies is a courtesy. Why doesn't the dipshit dr know what drugs are covered by the HMO he CHOSE to work for? Heaven forbid they look up in the formulary (handbook) they have in their office to see what drugs are covered. The office nurses think they are the dr or are equivalent to a dr.

I miss the little hats.

[quote] Most nurses are people who couldn't hack truly oppressive, stressful work in a business environment, so they go into nursing where they're coddled and paid handsomely and protected by unions

You must be in NY or California. Most nurses are not protected by unions

[quote] My dad recently became ill with hospital-acquired pneumonia and both shift nurses refused to call a doctor or request a pneumonia test although he had clear and obvious symptoms. Next morning the doc said it was clear the moment she saw him that he had pneumonia and testing confirmed

A nurse's job is not to diagnose patients. A nurse can't order any blood tests without a doctor's permission. Most doctors would not appreciate any nurse recommending tests for a patient. I can just imagine the scene that would occur if a nurse did that.

Some doctors don't want to be bothered at home unless a patient is dying (and even then they're still pissed off you called). I've had plenty of doctors yell at me for calling them after hours about drug interactions or about prescribing mistakes they made. Here I am calling to save their ass and clear up their fuck up and they're giving me an attitude

I'd like to know what hospital system OP works for where there are THAT many RNs running around. Most are staffed primarily by aides and LPNs.

I was an RN first, then an NP. I worked a lot with heart surgeons. They had their own PACU. I knew them by first name, knew their wives' and kids' names. I was there when some of the surgeons were mere residents. They were like obnoxious older brothers. We'd teases each other back and forth.

When I became an NP, I was assigned to the heart surgery team and was shocked to find that more than half of the surgeons never saw their patients until the two week post-op visit. I mean literally. never. saw. their. patients. Except for the square viewing area through the OR sterile sheets.

I didn't know this was even possible. How could you have surgery done by someone who wouldn't even see you? The NPs did all the pre-op stuff in the office, they admitted the patients to the hospital, did most of the post op care and they discharged the patients. The hospital's residents put in CVP lines, Alines, SGCs, etc. The junior and senior fellows worked with the surgeons in the OR and made rounds twice a day. They'd talk to the surgeons on the phone after rounds, tell the NP what the surgeons wanted done and then go spend the rest of the day between the OR and the ICU with our sickest patients.

One of the heart surgeons came into the hospital one Sunday because a political bigwig was there. He chased the residents on rounds and wound up in one of his patient's rooms. "Is there anything you'd like to ask me while I'm here?" he said to the patient, who replied, "Yeah. Who the fuck [italic] are [/italic] you?"

I had to leave the room. In the hallway, I couldn't move because I was silently laughing so hard, which caused me to press my stomach, and tears were running down my face. The nurses came running over -- they thought I was having a seizure. I had to rush to the nurses station so Dr X wouldn't see me laughing when he came out of the room.

I told them what happened and their collective reaction was, "WHAT? Dr X is here?!?! Where?!? What does he look like?!" I had no idea the floor nurses never saw the surgeons either.

Moral of the story: If you want to go into the medical field, be an open heart surgeon. I would allow no child of mine to be a nurse, an NP, a PA or a lowly MD without a team following him or her around the hospital.

Unfortunately the narcissism starts as soon as they chose to enter the profession, at the college level. Friends of Nursing majors will soon hear how nursing is by far the most difficult major, how hard their schedule is, how NO ONE but other nursing majors will understand their struggles--even when, in actuality at my university, they were taking three to four classes (mostly entry level sciences) as opposed to the normal load of five. It's simply a narcissistic obsession of Nursing majors to constantly bicker about their prestigious and honorable choice of choosing to pursue such an exhausting and strenuous major--one so hard that ONLY other nursing majors can understand their struggles and no other major can possibly pose anything remotely so tough. Forget it Engineering majors! Nursing is CLEARLY the hardest major on the planet; just ask one. Sadly, I suppose some nurses stick to their college thinking patterns once they get a job.

Honestly though r77, a cardiothoracic surgeon probably put in 8 years of training post-medical school to get to that career path. The simple truth is their time and skills are valuable and highly needed and there are much better uses of their time than interacting with patients.

r71, I have no illusions about their role, nor do I want a 'cuddly' hospital stay.

In my experience, the majority view patients as the enemy. Literally.

They also take out a lot of their anger at the system, other staff, and doctors on patients. It's an obnoxious trickle-down abuse effect.

Another problem is lack of regulation. They are not independently regulated here (Canada), nor are doctors.

There are many decent, excellent professionals; they are sadly outweighed by burnt-out poison.

Many just collect letters after their names so they can cunt it over other nurses and avoid patients.

I've had good experiences and bad with them but one thing I have noticed...why are nurses too lazy to throw litter in a trash can? They unwrap all the syringes and tubes and just throw the trash on the floor or leave it on the bed and expect other people to clean it up. What's up with that? When my mom as in last year for a few days I was constantly cleaning up after them.

What R78 said is pretty much true and I encountered nursing majors like that several times in my life. I attended a small college that has a nursing program. Many of the college administrators and some of the instructors at that school, used to give the nursing students the pedestal treatment. I knew a couple of nursing majors that didn't have the self-important attitude.

Which is amusing because becoming a nurse really isn't that hard compared to a lot of professional paths. I respect nurses, but bragging about how hard nursing classes are...is not going to endear you to any physician, physician's assistant, pharmacists etc who all endured more challenging curriculum.

Oh, it's all just about attitudes and entitlement, isn't it? And who gets their little feelings hurt by whom. I hate my nursing and physician colleagues more than you all sometimes, believe me. But I know this, without doctors and nurses, we'd ALL die a lot sooner. If you want to find those responsible for filthy wards and over-worked nurses, nursing assistants, doctors, and mid-level practitioners, you need look no further than hospital administration.

This clip from ER says it all about Nurses and how they are treated by doctors.

A nurse probably saved my life the last time I was hospitalized by questioning a medication order.

Nurses are underpaid and overworked, often treated like dogs by hospital administration and the doctors who got As on their god courses, and they still manage to save lives.

They have my respect.

YES [R10]

When I was hospitalized for 11 days, the nurses/nurses aides/and young men in blue scrubs--not sure what they were (no snarky comments!) all took very good care of me, were nice, kind, mostly made me laugh. A couple were businesslike but that was okay, and a few were not especially friendly, but that was okay. Most of them were great. I wrote a letter thanking them to the head honcho.

Nurses like teachers are NOT overpaid and generally do their jobs well.

I love how it's so acceptable to throw upper tiered professions under the bus (Physicians, etc) in favour of less lofty professions (Nurses, etc).

To those who do it, you seem to have some sort of jealousy/inferiority complex or just a plain old mean streak. simply, it's not flattering.

In regards to health care, both physicians and nurses are essential to save, maintain, and rehabilitate lives. Let's not disparage an entire group of hard working and mostly intelligent people for the the bad behaviours of a few.

OP, I have a good friend who is a physical therapist in a retirement complex with senior assisted living and surgery rehab facilities. She feels the same way. They communicate badly or not at all, don't keep notes updated so she may miss critical information and are generally difficult.

Good grief...don't get me started on PA,s.

As an R.N,B.S.N. For over 40 yrs I have seen quite a lot .

I have worked for city ..state...private and a very large HMO.

I would never let a PA touch me...their training is the worst. A nurse practitioner is way above a PA.

All my contemporary nurses feel the same way. If you are in the hospital you would be best served by nurses of my era.

We had the best training..I have experienced nursing as an inpatient in the last few yrs on a surgical ward.. Sadly,the nursing was seriously lacking...although they sure know how to use a computer.

Also..don't let a hospitalist i take care of you...again lack of training and they have monster personalities to boot.

The older attending physicians know how bad they are...for the most part.

I can see those nursing notes the PT is missing:

"Having issues fitting Mr. Jones' diaper. Excrement tends to slide out the sides and may become a slip and fall hazard while you've got him rocking to Lawrence Welk."

r88, it's not "a few", it's many. As I said in another post, doctors and nurses self-regulating is a main factor in their attitudes.

Every profession has horrible people in it. It's the fact that nursing is beyond a single digit percentage of people who are uncaring, careerist, ignorant and downright hostile to the people they are supposed to help heal.

I have a great respect for anyone in that profession who not only is a caring professional, but who also knows when they are burnt out and need to leave.

While you are certainly entitled to your opinion R90, I must say most physicians I know tend to trust and prefer working PAs than NPs, it's not even close. But of course generalizations are just that, there are great NPs and shitty PAs.

Also I'm not sure why everyone is saying Nurses are underpaid. Nurses are actually compensated pretty well and many do 12 hour shifts where they only work 3 days a week.

R89, the Nurses Notes your PT pal DIDN'T get a chance to read were, "Patient requests that this particular PT not come near him as he tweaks the patient's nipples unnecessarily during therapy and smells like fart."

Hospitalists, at least in NYC, are very well trained. Still, I'd rather have my care directly supervised by a physician who knows me.

Nurses run the gamut. One thing I know: DO NOT leave a loved one alone in a hospital, particularly is they are altered. It's a landmine. Any candid health care professional will tell you never to leave a patient alone.

BTW, social workers are more insufferable. Most wanted to be something else (usually a psychologist) but didn't have the grades. Columbia's sw school collects data about its students and over 90% (I think it's 95%) applied to other "professional" schools and were rejected. That makes for one bitter person.

I was in a hospital for surgery last September. Unlike OP, I never saw a nurse looking at a phone and none had big nametags with buttons and awards. Every nurse and doctor was kind, attentive, and caring. I never had to ring for a nurse. There was always one at my side before I even knew I wanted or needed anything. They treated me like I was an important person or a special guest. It was a good experience.

r96, are you well-off?

I ask because that was something else I noticed about who got decent care. It had nothing to do with patient behaviour. The wealthier patients got better care.

[quote]The wealthier patients got better care.

How did the nurses know who was wealthy and who wasn't? Did people put the income tax forms on their charts?

R97, no I'm not well off. The hospital was huge so it wasn't some small personal place and everyone else seemed to get the same care that I was getting. I have to figure that it all came from the top down. A previous hospital experience in another state, a decade ago, was awful, so this was really a great experience.

I worked in medical records for quite some time and the NPs' reports were almost always clear and concise and helpful, as were most of the RNs and LPNs (who dictated under the supervision of an RN or higher). The PAs and MDs were resentful they even HAD to dictate and would make mistakes, then scream at everyone else around them because of their own mistakes.

That said, I've run into a LOT of nurses who should not have been nurses. There is a major lack of knowledge amongst the newest crop of nurses. I can't tell you how many didn't know about common meds like like Bactrim and Ativan.

Plenty of both nurses and doctors think of patients as the enemy. They assume all patients are stupid and bring on their health problems through their own stupidity, even for genetic conditions, injuries that were someone else's fault, etc. The medical profession is like one big Datalounge.

Plus it is hard to tell who is a nurse nowadays. You never know if you are talking to a trained person or some orderly or receptionist. Everybody dresses alike.

Bring back the cute nurses uniforms!!!!

Yeah, R101. Everyone loves to iron uniforms.

Are you kidding, r98? EVERYONE, AND I MEAN EVERYONE, is notified of patients who are to be given extra special care because they are wealthy and could be a potential donor. I work at a major NY hospital and Development and Hospital Administration (at least at my hospital) is very involved with knowing who the rich patients are. Rich patients are afforded extra special care.

The adult children of narcissistic mothers have to say something about this. An online support group I'm in did an informal poll of each other's mothers'careers. Out of about one hundred sixty responses, 95% of our narcissistic mothers were...wait for it: nurses! It was very strange. None of us expected there to be one field to which most of our narc momsters gravitated. There is a definite pull towards that field by entitled, and ironically, those lacking in empathy. That being said, not everyone who chooses nursing is a narc. My experiences with nurses are completely a mixed bag. I've been unfortunate enough to meet several of the nasty ones, but the nice ones are just as if they dropped right from heaven's door yours.

[quote]Plus it is hard to tell who is a nurse nowadays. You never know if you are talking to a trained person or some orderly or receptionist. Everybody dresses alike.

A relative of mine who is in college works part time as a receptionist at a nursing home. She's required to wear scrubs for some weird reason. She never goes near the residents all that much.

Nurses are what doctors should be.

[quote]Unfortunately the narcissism starts as soon as they chose to enter the profession, at the college level. Friends of Nursing majors will soon hear how nursing is by far the most difficult major, how hard their schedule is, how NO ONE but other nursing majors will understand their struggles--even when, in actuality at my university, they were taking three to four classes (mostly entry level sciences) as opposed to the normal load of five. It's simply a narcissistic obsession of Nursing majors to constantly bicker about their prestigious and honorable choice of choosing to pursue such an exhausting and strenuous major--one so hard that ONLY other nursing majors can understand their struggles and no other major can possibly pose anything remotely so tough. Forget it Engineering majors! Nursing is CLEARLY the hardest major on the planet; just ask one. Sadly, I suppose some nurses stick to their college thinking patterns once they get a job.

My husband ditched a couple of nursing major friends in college. He told me about how one of the friends had received FAFSA and several nursing scholarships and she still complained that being a nursing student she should be able to get more assistance. That pissed off other people in their friends' group especially people whose parents made too much for FAFSA, but were still unable to help completely pay for college. The students couldn't declare themselves independent to get FAFSA unless they were married, had a kid, or over the age of 24. Yet, the nursing major friend couldn't realize how lucky she was to get help and not worry about student loans and other issues.

I have a friend from college who became a nurse. She was laid back and never acted like she was better than non-nursing students. Her husband is also a nurse and they dislike nurses who brag too much or have the martyr complex. My friend works at an oncology center and says that her co-workers are pretty nice and not arrogant. Her husband works at an ICU at a large teaching hospital and has said that about half of his fellow nurses are arrogant monsters.

R106 It depends. I've encountered doctors who were much nicer and did a lot more than nurses.

[quote]I would never let a PA touch me...their training is the worst. A nurse practitioner is way above a PA.

This is an old ass post, but I completely disagree. I think PA training, in general, is superior to NP training.

I work in a hospital too and this is actually true.

[quote]This is another misogynist thread, since the majority of nurses are women.

It's not misogyny. I've encountered male nurses who have insufferable self-important attitude. If female nurses are horrible they need to be called out on it. My stepdad's sister-in-law was an LPN and she lost her license for falsifying reports and for giving the wrong medications to patients in a hospital and she was fired. She lied to people and said she left because she didn't like the hospital administration. This was in New Mexico where the state board of nursing publishes license suspensions and revokes on a quarterly newsletter. Another person in the family who is a hospital respiratory therapist saw the newsletter at work and then out of curiosity did a public records request and we found out other details.

When my step-uncle married that woman she had the insufferable attitude from the start and after being fired from the hospital, she worked as a basic caregiver/house manager at a residential facility for people with Down syndrome and then she got fired from there for some reason. She then spent the next several years working various odd jobs at call centers and retail places. We also found out from her kids that she was a compulsive liar and had lied about her first husband being abusive. It turned out that she was verbally abusive to her kids and all of them eventually cut off contact with her.

[quote]It always baffles me how it's assumed that everyone who is critical of illegal immigration is white, when IIRC over 40% of legal Latinos in both a Stanford Univ. study done IIRC in 2105 and in polls done on legal Latinos in Arizona during the SB1070 flap around 2010, were opposed to illegal immigration.

Those assumptions piss off some Latinos whose families have lived in the US for a very long time and are opposed to illegal immigration. Latinos with long histories in the US don't feel any connection to recent immigrants and they have very little in common with them. In New Mexico, the Hispanos who are descendants of Spanish conquistadors who entered that area in late 1500s/early 1600s have a very unique and old culture that the mainstream media never reports on and people wrongly assume that their culture is similar to recent Mexican immigrant culture and it's not.

In states along the border, many of the Border Patrol agents are conservative Hispanics who are very opposed to illegal immigration and it's funny how Eva Longoria and that comedian Cristela Alonzo who are from Texas ignore the fact that many Latinos in Texas are anti-immigration. Alonzo does bits in her stand up comedy sets about fearing the Border Patrol, but there is a chance that some of the BP agents she encountered were Latino. Of course, Alonzo will never own up to something like that.

I should feel triggered by this thread and OP's post, but instead I find it rather hilarious. Yeah, there are bitchy nurses; I work alongside a couple. I, however, am not a bitchy nurse IRL, I swear. I only sometimes am on DL.

Poor OP. Knows s/he isn't worth shit, so has to denigrate people who make a major contribution to humanity. OP, even if you aren't worth shit, you still have a right to breathe.

People who have been mistreated in some way by nurses or doctors develop very negative attitudes towards both in groups in general. Sometimes I don't blame people for having the same views as the OP. It's difficult to call out awful people working in healthcare because others want to believe that every single person working in healthcare is some kind of saint.

I worked in a hospital as a social worker for a few years and most of the nurses were awful people.

cleaning up bed pans is such hard work and requires years of education....

Most nurses I've come in contact with are nice, caring people who have no clue about the mechanics behind medicine at all. I guess that's the doctors' job.

[quote] Nurses are what doctors should be

Doctors are busy saving your life while the nurse is holding your handing telling you everything will be okay.

I’m a nurse and I agree. A lot of nurses are insufferable defensive control freaks. I think it’s an inferiority complex. They are threatened by superior status of MDs and also encroachment by less educated ”professionals” like NA’s. .

R117 Depending on the healthcare facility, certified nurses aides usually do a lot of clean up tasks. It doesn't take long to get a CNA certificate.

R120 A couple of doctors at the hospital I used to work at had some stories about nurses treating them like shit when they were nice and respectful to the nurses.

A friend of mine dated a nurse for a few years and she had a martyr complex. My friend is a cop, but he's humble and doesn't expect or want people to worship him. When he was with the nurse she always told him that she worked harder than he did. If he worked a 12 hour shift that was stressful because of calls and cases, she told him that he couldn't complain because she always had it worse at her job. He dumped her later on.

Well r121, your anecdotes must be the truth

OMG it's TRUE! I work in a hospital and the nurses are the biggest whiners there! When they actually HAVE to work, they bitch, when it's not that busy and they have to take low census, they bitch. No one, but NO ONE, has it worse off than them. They are truly God's gift..their minds.

[quote]How did the nurses know who was wealthy and who wasn't? Did people put the income tax forms on their charts?

They probably observed how family members of the patients were dressed or if they had any items that hinted at income.

R6 Ha! The management RN's are the worst. They ARE the ones who still wear the name tags with the GIANT "RN" on them even though they haven't touched a patient in years. And they stick every quality sticker or pin on their name tag.

Hospitals should get involved in helping nurses reduce unhealthy eating habits, as the majority of nurses in the US are obese.

"It is a jarring image: the nurse who is treating us and whom we might expect to exemplify a healthy lifestyle, is him or herself not just overweight but obese."

[quote]even though I worked there for two years none of the nurses knew the other employees around them by their first name. This includes janitors, folks dealing with meals, etc, which were always the same people day in day out. They always referred to them as janitors or security guards. We in turn knew the nurses names and their standing.

That's shitty.

Most of the women in my (large, Catholic) family are nurses. They're all insufferable about their job. My sister was super-excited to get into a PhD program in one of the best schools in the world, and one of our nurse cousins made bitchy comments about how "useless" it is to study Literature.

Lazy and entitled.

I agree. I hate doctors, but I'd rather deal with doctors than nurses. Doctors actually know things. Nurses think they know by virtue of their experience. I trust doctor school over nurse feelings any day.

fatties who look dress like janitors.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

It's a mixed bag of course. Nurses have incredibly demanding, high stress jobs and I understand that. That being said two of the biggest cunts I have ever met were studying to become nurses. One was a real borderline personality disordered psycho, just a hateful little wench. I shudder to think of some vulnerable person being in her care. The other was a major league drama queen.

They're not. Fuck you.

You can't spell "GRANDIOSE" without RN!

Obviously a troll thread but I can’t resist it. Many nurses are awful — did you know that a huge percentage of nurses have at least one alcoholic parent? Nursing (like any profession) attracts certain types of personalities. Some of the most rude people I have dealt with in medicine were fucking nurses. I actually challenge the nurses posting here to share whether or not they have one alcoholic parent. This data point might apply more toward Boomer/Gen X nurses. They are codependent people-pleasers, which in turn leads them to resentment, rage, and martyrdom.

Having said that, all of my best interactions with medical professionals were also with nurses. I totally disagree about their education too, several posters alluded to them having a weak education— that’s preposterous. Aren’t there several tiers of RN’s, and the highest level has an education equivalent of an MD? I don’t recall the exact differences, but nurses who can prescribe drugs etc., are no dummies. I think anyone who has earned an RN is a pretty sharp cookie, and yes, they deserve every penny they make and more.

I do think many nurses have that classic Al-Anon martyr personality, and therefore can be hyper-controlling and/or passive aggressive freaks, and it has to do with needing to know more than everyone in the room. Every nurse likes to believe they’re the smartest one in the room, ergo, it’s their way or the highway. But there are many, many excellent nurses — why do nurses here have to be so thin-skinned about this crystal clear fact? Every profession I’ve been in has some negative stereotype associated with it. So what? It sucks but it’s true — nurses cannot escape the bitchery of the DL, we make no exceptions. I’m telling you, look at the alcoholic angle with their parents — it’s amazing once you get it, they are hard-wired to “fix” bad situations. And they resent it.

R136, you just resuscitated this thread like a medical professional.

Thinking of nurses known. All fathers were drunks. Learned something new. Also will stash this in my arsenal for future take downs with these controlling bitches.

R136 "Aren’t there several tiers of RN’s, and the highest level has an education equivalent of an MD?" No, no, NO!

The amount of clinical hours required in a NP or D.N.P (Doctor of Nurse Practionery) is a tiny fraction of those required for residency trained MD. A third or fourth year medical student has more clinical hours. It's scary, really.

Nurses is the BEST.

R139 Nurses are great at nursing.

I come from a family of nurses. My mother and her four sisters were all nurses at one point. And a few of my cousins are. They’re all tough bitches who know their shit. And can be incredibly gentle and caring. But yes, they can be insufferable at times.

Still have a lot of respect for them.