Why did gay men marry Judy Garland?

Each party thought they were getting a cash cow in the other. The men thought because she was a big star she had money, and she thought they had the means to support her. Neither one was right. Combine that with the fact she spent most of her waking hours strung out on booze and dope, her judgment was not always the best. That her father was gay and she adored him probably had something to do with it too.

I think Vincent Minnelli was genuinely fond of her, but I don't know why he married her, seeing as how he was gay as a goose. I guess he thought a beard would be nice, and since he did care for her he thought she'd be a good one. And I suppose he wanted to have a child; that was an incentive, too. I think she married him because she was looking for a father figure.

With Mark Herron I think he just wanted to be married to the famous Living Legend Judy Garland. She was so revered by gays that I guess he considered her quite a prize (that wore off quickly). Judy just wanted a man in her life.

Same with Mickey Deans. He was in love with the idea of being the husband of Judy Garland and she just needed a man.

They weren't gay when they were fucking her, I guess.

I thought Deans and Luft were the straight husbands? What's the story with Deans?

David Rose and Sid Luft were the straight husbands.

What is this "olden days" business? One hopes that you were being ironic.

[quote]I think Vincent Minnelli was genuinely fond of her, but I don't know why he married her

I agree, I do think he was fond of her. He seemed to try his best to get her to go clean and improve her mind by introducing her to literature and art. As for why he married her, I would not be surprised if a little pressure from LB Mayer was in the mix.

R4, have you seen pictures of Judy in 1969? No straight man would go near THAT.

What's ftms shinny on Judy's gay dad, Frank Gumm?

It was common for gay men to marry women back then. Not so much by 1969 of course, but in the 1940s, gay professionals married women for a variety of reasons, mostly because it was expected, and allegedly married men were seen as more stable.

To meet Liza!

Vincente Minnelli has never been confirmed as gay. He probably wasn't. I think he was genuinely attracted to Judy, both by her sense of humor and her apparent vulnerability. He certainly didn't need her money because he was financially better off without her. They were both broke by the time they divorced.

Judy's dad wasn't gay. He was the most like Sid Luft.

poor r11, so deluded, so clueless

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R13, there's no evidence to support the assertion that Judy's father was gay.

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r14 thinks her husband is straight and that his male secretary just travels with him because he is disorganized

R15, it's been asserted in many bios, which, of course, reference each other, but there's no historical evidence supporting that assertion.

Repeating rumors doesn't make them factual.

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all gay rumors are true

R18, the family wasn't "run out of Grand Rapids". There's no documented evidence of any legal trouble or scandal about them and they maintained the social ties they had there.

If anything Judy's dad was abusively controlling toward Judy's mom and, by moving away, could successfully separate her from her family support.

R13, Minnelli actually married three times after Garland--Georgina, Denise, & Lee, for a total of four marriages and two children. Nevertheless, he was very obviously a closeted gay man, who perhaps enjoyed the companionship of women, the safety of the closet, and the ability to have children.

Did Dr. House play him gay in the film? I forget.

R21 thinks all the men in China are gay because they hold hands, hug each other, and are okay with showing superficial affection toward each other. R21 also thinks all men in Afghanistan are gay, including the Taliban, because they wear make-up.

Huh?

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we don't think about China and Afghanistan r23.

That Frank Gumm was gay or at least bisexual is not something that was rumored once and then repeated as fact. There is no shortage of people who knew first hand and confirmed it to be true.

r27's link is interesting. It talks about how Judy was sexually harrassed as an underage teen at MGM. Sounds like there were a lot of casting couch creeps around.

Thank goodnesch I didn't make the schame mischtakesch!

Liza married every single gay man alive

Well, if years ago a gay guy was compelled to marry a woman, wouldn't you have wanted to at least marry one who could sing & was hysterically funny . . . . ?

R27 the only thing that Clarke has in his book is based on the memory of a 90+ year old woman. He has nothing about or from those Frank Gumm allegedly approached. Nor does he present support via anything he claims to have found. Even a photocopy of a court record would have been nice.

Plus, Judy was born in Minnesota, not Michigan. You'd think Clarke wouldn't have screwed that up if he had truly visited the place.

"They were both broke by the time they divorced."

Can I just ask - why would Vincente Minnelli have been broke in 1951? Wasn't he under contract to MGM and directing some of their biggest and most popular movies? Are you saying Judy had just burned through all the money that the both of them had made at MGM up to that point?

I think Minnelli was the kind of gay who liked going out cruising and picking up trade, but would never live a gay lifestyle or want to live with another man, he did not have romances with men, just sex (like the stories of Cole Porter and Monty Wooley going out in taxis to cruise sailors and suck cock) - but they wanted to have a straight lifestyle with a wife as hostess of their beautiful home for entertaining, so they could pass as straight and mix with all the other straight high society couples.

R33, yes she did. She was in and out of hospitals/rehabs and not working a lot of the time and also rented a mansion of her own during their separation, burning through money she wasn't earning (which became the story of the rest of her life).

R35, even Scotty Bowers, master of the Hollywood trade, didn't have any dirt on Minnelli.

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Why are you looking at me?

"What's the story with Deans?"

A friend claims that Mickey Deans was gay, and that he knows this because he had an affair with him soon after Judy died. Mickey told my friend that Judy was a pain in the ass.

They were together for about two years, did a lot of drugs and traveled on my friends money. What makes me believe this is because my friend is a highly respected business person today, Park Avenue money and all that.

Vincsshet. MEEnelli......Papa!

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DEAD

Elaine on "Seinfeld" tried and attempted, but as we all know he went back to his team.

Minnelli couldn't have been gay. Liza looks too much like him for him not to have been the father.

Oh for fuck's sake, of course Vincente Minnelli is Liza's father. Believe it or not, gay men are perfectly capable of having sex with women.

What a maroon!

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Garlands father was gay - it is public record: "morals charges". Minnelli was gay- had a live in lover when in NYC as a set designer before his Hollywood career. And Mickey Deans was gay- my best friend (then and now) dated him that meant sex) in the 70s. Garland had dex with all kinds of men- whenever and wherever she could- and a few women too. She was wild- probablyostly drug induced behavior. Her longest and most traditional relationship if you want to call it that, was with Sid Luft. I've always had the impression Sid was the one she liked the most.

Cite the source for the "morals charges" - date, jurisdiction, docket #

Minnelli had an Asian house servant - very, very fashionable in pre-WWII NYC - but no reason to believe a "lover".

Sid was the one she knew how to cope with because he was the one most like her dad.

It's easy to understand why they married her, fame, whatever money she had left, etc. What is hard to figure out is why she married them or why Liza does the same thing. Neither Liza nor "Mama" ever married a straight guy. I guess that it's the old most girls want a man like their dad and both Judy and Liza had gay fathers.

I don't know about husband #2, Jack Haley Jr., but Liza's husband #3 Mark Gero, is definitely straight.

Guess straight guys are perfectly capable of having sex with men, too.

[quote]Cite the source for the "morals charges" - date, jurisdiction, docket #

First you must provide your SS number and a copy of your drivers license.

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Yeah, of course he's out of his fucking mind. Total freak. Check troll-dar.

Vincente Minelli not gay. Some straight dudes are ultra effeminate, i.e. prince.

Frank gum = gay.

Mark Herron didnt die of AIDS years ago, it was within the past few years.

And he wasn't hiv+.

Judy Garland's father died many, many years ago. But, Vincente Minnelli was still alive into the mid 1980s. I met him at Liza's opening night at the Winter Garden in 1974.

I can not prove that Mr. Minnelli was gay, but he certain pinged big time. So since 1974 I have always understood why the were so many rumors about his sexuality.

There is one person in this thread who claims over and over that Vincente Minnelli and Judy Garland's dad were not gay. He also claims that Judy's dad was just like Sid Luft. That last claim is made with no evidence and is something that has never been made before here or, as far as I know, anywhere else.

Because no one could flip her forearms about quite like she did when she sang "I Don't Care."

No, R53, historical court records are available nationwide. As someone pointed out earlier - court records are public records and no, name and SSN are NOT required to access them. Certainly if someone is claiming charges against Frank Gumm as fact the court records have been consulted. Unless that someone is just talking out of their ass.

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She made them love her.

They didn't wanna do it.

They didn't wanna do it.

She made them love her,

And all the time they knew it.

You bet they always knew it.

She made them hump her. Sometimes...

She made them screw.

And if you'd been there,

She might have had you.

Why did gay men marry Judy Garland?? Because she was willing to beard for them. And back then even in Hollywood and theater circles, being gay was taboo.

The real question is why did Judy Garland want to beard. Did she hate sex?? Did she avoid straight men because she didn't think she deserve love??

Boy, what is the stick that is up r59 et al's butt? I'm beginning to think its Liza herself, defending Daddy,

David Rose was straight. Sid Luft was "straight, a definite alpha-male type.

Minnelli was "effeminate", but there has never been any solid evidence to prove that he was gay. He was a brilliant director, a creative force, and that would be more than enough to attract an actress like Garland.

Herron and Deans were gay. By the time, Garland married them, she needed whatever companionship she could get.

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"Mickey told my friend that Judy was a pain in the ass."

While it's ungallant of her widower to say it, I can't believe that this is a newsflash to anyone; even the most devoted Judy queens would have to be aware that she wouldn't quite have been a delight to live with in the final months of her life.

R62, there's no confirmation, only repeated rumor.

Straight guys fall in love with a woman's physical assets, gay men fall in love with the drama and glamour that surrounds some of them.

Judy Garland was such an emotionally in-tune woman and so witty. These things alone are very appealing to others. Lots of gay men have these same qualities so it's no surprise the attraction.

They married her because it was the closest thing to gay marriage they could get.

Jack Haley Jr was gay -- one of those fat fug gays.

I'm shocked that none of you are going berserk over Judy's lesbian affairs. It was more than 'a few.' How about Liza's? Some weird dynamics here.

Every single person discussed in this thread is bisexual, including Judy Garland. There, no confusion now. See how easy it is when you don't think in monosexual paradigms?

[quote]The real question is why did Judy Garland want to beard. Did she hate sex?? Did she avoid straight men because she didn't think she deserve love??

Or maybe she was simply a lesbian?????? Why on Earth would the first explanations, in your mind, for women bearding would be hating sex or thinking one doesn't deserve love? Are you out of your mind?

Judy's father did have sexual longings for men. That's been documented in EVERY biography ever written about her. The troll who keeps insisting that Frank Gumm wasn't gay is just trolling.

Vincente Minnelli was known for wearing more makeup than a lot of the actresses at the studio. He was VERY gay.

Mark Herron and Mickey Deans...both gay.

ALL of these men prefered men as sexual partners. And ALL of them married women, and in Gumm's and Minnelli's case, fathered children with them. They were closeted; who wasn't back then. I don't think any of them married women because they were bi; they married women just to make it seem like they weren't gay or to have children (Frank Gumm and Vincente Minnelli) or they married because they wanted to be connected to a famous person (Herron and Deans). I wouldn't call any of Judy's gay husbands bi. Judy was just a beard.

Glamour and no sex.

R75, Judy was mentally ill, so using logic is impossible.

Liza, on the other hand....

"Frank Gumm got in trouble in Grand Rapids because of inappropriate advances made to boys. It's been well-documented. Lorna herself talked about it in her book. I'm sure Liza was thrilled about that!"

The whole thing about Liza's reaction to Lorna's book brings up a question for me, for those who've closely followed Liza's interviews over the years:

In terms of the portrait Liza paints of Judy and the experience of having her as a mother - how much does she acknowledge/talk about all the mess and bad stuff? Is her approach to try to skim over it, like "Sure, there was bad stuff, but I'd rather talk about the wonderful stuff, for example..."? Or does she actually paint a delusional picture that completely denies the chaos?

Because every man in existence is secretly gay.

Judy's mental problems came from years of substance abuse and being made to feel she had to take care of everyone. Mama started that out early. I read how Judy Garland was bi-polar or manic depressive. A side effect of being on amphetamines is paranoid, delusional behavior with severe mood swings. It would and does happen to anyone addicted to amphetamine. Add not sleeping or eating healthy and throw in some liquor and this is what happened to Judy.

Judy wasn't lesbian and more than likely she did experiment a bit (lots of us have). But she loved men and said at one time the love of her life was Tyrone Power (another bisexual man). Sometimes women go for guys who do remind them of their fathers. Especially if they've adored their fathers like Judy did.

HEY EVERYBODY! JUDY ASKED ME TO SEND A MESSAGE TO ALL YOU BITCHES. HIT IT JUDY.....

ha ha ha...woooo I love it!

"Mama started that out early."

Uh, no. That's what Judy wanted everyone to believe but it wasn't so. She got started on drugs when she started working at MGM. She became a hopeless drug addict primarily to her psychological and physical makeup. She was probably bi-polar. But to hear poor, deranged Judy tell she had drugs crammed down her throat at the age of 10 by her evil mother and later had them crammed down her throat by Louis Mayer and his henchmen at MGM: "it's all THEIR fault." To the end of her day, she always blamed other people for her problems.

R84 is an idiot troll.

David Rose and Sid Luft were not gay. Vincente Minnelli, Mark Herron and Mickey Deans were.

Judy really liked gay men. And they liked her.

Funny fact: Judy's first husband, David Rose, composed The Stripper.

I read somewhere that the Gumms, their marriage already in trouble, wanted to abort Judy, but were talked out of it. Supposedly her mother took great pleasure in telling others in front of Judy how she threw herself down stairs and jumped off tables in order to induce a miscarriage. Any kid who hears that over and over again is going to be fucked up. Famous or not, she never had a chance.

Its OK Lulu. You still have your macrame.

[quote] the only thing that Clarke has in his book is based on the memory of a 90+ year old woman. He has nothing about or from those Frank Gumm allegedly approached.

In the linked interview, he specifically states that he interviewed men who were propositioned.

Now, shut up.

He says it in his interview, but it's not in the book.

Guys like Clarke are a dime a dozen. They're "journalists" not historians.

Historians refer to original documents and reports of the period. "Journalists" just spew what anyone tells them, objectivity and fact aren't their concern.

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I'm confused. Some of you are saying Garlands father was gay. Does that mean he was really not her biological father? I believe the man was on record as having 3 daughters. So were any of them his?

"Gay Dad" is just a contradiction in terms.

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[quote]I'm confused.

No, R95, you're not confused; just pretending to be confused. Go away.

My dad had a wicked crush--his first crush-- on Judy Garland after seeing the Wizard of Oz. He was also in love with Angie Dickinson. Does that mean he's gay?

It's ridiculous to say that Minneli was gay - bi at the very most.

What is this bizarre need to deny the obvious?

Of course, Frank Gumm, Vincente Minnelli, Mark Herron, and Mickey Deans were gay.

Of course, Judy Garland was both mentally ill and bisexual (and compulsively promiscuous).

Of course, Peter Allen, Jack Haley, Jr., and David Gest were/are gay.

Of course, Liza Minnelli is both mentally ill and bisexual (and compulsively promiscuous).

There's no question about any of this.

It's Clarke's book that said Ethel Gumm gave Judy Benzedrine before she ever took it at MGM. Whether she did or not though you have to remember that Benzedrine was an over the counter product until 1959. Lot's of people took it, even non-celebs. Talk to some survivors from WW2. But I think Ethel played a part in making Judy feel her real importance was performing and it affected her the rest of her life. So yeah, in later years Judy added to that the way she did with her stories but it's based on truth.

Judy Garland was an addictive personality. I do not believe that she was mentally ill until the years of substance abuse affected her mind. The true bipolar person is very rare.

Given her huge problems, it's amazing that Judy Garland was able to sucessfully host a weekly variety show (Judy Garland Show: 9 PM on Sunday nights on CBS) as late as 1963-64. I use the word "successfully" despite low ratings (but good critical reviews). I know there were problems behind the scenes. Many have written that after failing on TV, Garland drifted without purpose for the remaining five years of her life. I agree.

Clarke wrote that Ethel gave Judy "pep pills". Benzedrine in pill form wasn't available in the US until 1938!

R81, why is it so difficult to acknowledge that Judy was probably undiagnosed bi-polar? Her older sister who committed suicide in 1963 probably was too. Alcohol/drug abuse doesn't produce bi-polar syndrome.

A lot of bi-polars are hypersexual and bisexual. Judy "loved men" sure, but it has nothing to do with having lesbian affairs.

"n terms of the portrait Liza paints of Judy and the experience of having her as a mother - how much does she acknowledge/talk about all the mess and bad stuff?"

Liza treats EVERY unpleasant in her life like that.

Well lots of people who were speeders or are speeders (hi meth heads) will act hypersexual and do all sorts of crazy things while in the throes of their addiction. I know because I was one. I had hallucinations, fits of anger, paranoid delusional thoughts and tried to commit suicide twice. I was nothing like I really was or am now. People who knew me then can't hardly believe it. Twelve years clean and feeling blessed.

The only woman I ever heard that Judy may have experimented with was that bitch MGM spy Betty Asher. But even if their were more so what? I'd hardly say some experimentation made her bisexual but I hate labels so?

Liza Minnelli spent years and years talking about Judy and answering the most asinine questions asked by EVERYBODY. Can you blame her for not wanting, after forty plus years, to continue answering the same fucking things over and over again. She stated once "I don't want to be the keeper of the flame." Also it's well known she doesn't like anything that smacks of exploitation about her mom.

I don't believe even Jacqueline Susann who attached every bit of old Hollywood gossip to her Neely O'Hara character hit Garland for being bi-sexual - and Jackie was a woman who knew about bisexuality.

Judy Garland's father was gay and, in spite of his faults, he was a loving and supportive father, one of the few bright spots in a dreary childhood. She was attracted to gay men largely for that reason.

Is that why Liza all of a sudden about 10 years ago started chattering on about Kay Thompson being the most important influence on her life - to get away from all the Mama questions and exploitation? It just seemed so patently absurd. Your mother is Judy Fucking Garland and yet she is not the singular female influence in your life? Please.

Liza has talked about Kay Thompson for years. She was a huge influence on Liza both personally and professionally just like Judy. It was Kay who helped Liza with Judy's funeral arrangements. She (Kay) was a mother figure.

To her credit Liza has given Judy lot's of credit and has spoken of her very well. I respect that she hasn't dissed on her and made personal things public. But to be honest it would be difficult and get old to have people always asking you the same things over and over again. It was her mother and she deserves to have a large part of her to love privately.

As far as influences? Start asking around or asking yourself if your mother or father were your biggest influences? I think most of us could take a combination of both, with many other people, who've touched our lives.

I don't think they were gay until after they married Judy Garland.

Same with her father. He wasn't gay before Garland started singing. I think it was the song and her gay siren singing of "Zing Went the Strings of My Heart" that turned all these men gay.

June Allyson said one of the nicest things about Judy on MGM: When the Lion Roars. She said, and this isn't an exact quote but that she hated when people said unkind things about Judy. She found her to be one of the kindest, wittiest women she'd ever known. She said it was just beautiful. She added "it's hard for me to talk about her.." and started to cry. I found it one of the nicest things I'd heard on Judy Garland, or any other celebrity.

r112 take it to the dying June Allyson thread, please. She needs your post far more than Judy does.

[quote]The only woman I ever heard that Judy may have experimented with was that bitch MGM spy Betty Asher. But even if their were more so what? I'd hardly say some experimentation made her bisexual but I hate labels so?

You hate lesbians or any implication that a woman you like might be one, to be exact. You don't hate labels. If it was a male actor experimenting you'd call him gay in a nano second, you fucking hypocrite. Check your lesbophobia, dipshit.

What a rude response. I have lesbians in my family whom I love. I also know people who have experimented, both male and female and they've married and gone on with life. If not liking labels makes me a dipshit in your mind? So what!? Who the fuck are you but an obviously rude poster. They're a dime a dozen in internet land.

Gerald Clarke's bio of Judy, "Get Happy", is really a piece of shit. You know where he gets all the information about how her mother got her hooked on drugs and how every man at the MGM studio wanted to get into her panties? Why, from poor bi-polar, drug-addicted Judy of course! Yes, he got a lot of information from the tapes she made and the sixty-something pages from an incompleted biography she half-heartedly was working on.

Clarke says that L.B. Mayer wanted to fuck Judy. Judy claimed he would feel her up by saying "Judy, you sing from the heart!" and then laying his hand on her boob. He called her "my little hunchback"; does that sound like he found her physically attractive? And of course Judy claimed that ALL the men at the studio wanted to bang her, too. MGM studios had some of the most beautiful actresses in world, and everybody wanted to fuck the very ordinary looking, somewhat plump Garland? That was ALL in Judy's imagination. But Clarke takes everything she said as the undisputed truth.

Clarke also claims that Judy wanted to keep her kids away from Ethel Gumm because Ethel was trying to "push" Liza into show business the way she did with Judy. Well, Liza didn't need one bit of pushing; from the time she was a young girl she wanted to be a performer. Judy would not allow Ethel to see her granddaughter Lorna because by that time Judy was so filled with irrational hatred for her mother, who she blamed for ALL the problems in her life, that she was determinted to get back at her at all costs. For the rest of her life she told outrageous lies about Ethel Gumm. Evidently Clarke is such a Judy worshipper than he never bothered to find out whether or not the very disturbed Garland was telling the truth. His biography of Garland is one of the worst.

R116, is his the only one to recount the story about Judy singing "Over the Rainbow" with a mouthful of jizz?

[quote]the story about Judy singing "Over the Rainbow" with a mouthful of jizz?

Favorite Judy Garland gossip ever.

The poster up above should write his own Judy Garland bio. Sounds like he knew her and exactly the way she was and how it all went down.

Joan Crawford said that Judy should "SNAP OUT OF IT!!!!"

R116, Lorna Luft was six weeks old when Judy Garland's mother died. So I don't see how preventing Lorna from seeing her would make much difference to a newborn infant.

Also, Liza wasn't even seven when her maternal grandmother died so how could the woman have been pushing much yet for Liza to perform?

"The poster up above should write his own Judy Garland bio. Sounds like he knew her and exactly the way she was and how it all went down."

I probably know more than you do, Gerry old boy. Where did you get the "she sang "Over the Rainbow" to a cruel lover through a mouthful of his semen" story? From an unimpeachable, unnamed "source", no doubt.

"Lorna Luft was six weeks old when Judy Garland's mother died. So I don't see how preventing Lorna from seeing her would make much difference to a newborn infant."

Oh, it didn't make any difference to LORNA. But Ethel Gumm found it very painful that she was not allowed to see her new grandchild.

"Also, Liza wasn't even seven when her maternal grandmother died so how could the woman have been pushing much yet for Liza to perform?'

I don't know. But that's what Clarke said in his book. I guess that info, that Ethel was "pushing" Liza to perform, came from Judy, too.

I doubt Ethel was who pushed Liza into "In the Good Old Summertime".

Liza didn't "perform" in "Summertime". She was barely 3. She was just a toddler that Van Johnson holds in the last scene.

I'm aware of that, R125, and I doubt Ethel had anything to do with Liza's appearance in anything! As a matter of fact there was even a time when Ethel considered pulling Judy away from Hollywood and taking her back to Minnesota.

The problems between Ethel and Judy started before MGM and were deep seated in Judy's mind. Ethel was a classic and pushy stage mother no doubt. I believe she did love Judy too but saw an opportunity for her youngest to become a star and the lines became blurred. It happens to this day. No surprise there. In later years with her prescription drug addictions everything became magnified in Judy's mind and the paranoid thoughts intensified. It was Joe Mankiewicz early on who told Mayer to "get the mother away from her and get her help." He said he knew if it went on long enough there would be no turning back.

It was also Joe Mankiewicz who steered Judy to Freudian psych where every problem is (incorrectly) blamed on the mother.

Liza and Dottie Ponedel used to tell the story of how Judy would make up these outrageous stories to tell her psychoanalyst so he wouldn't be bored with the realities of her life. I don't know that she ever took it seriously (her analysis). Judy was a complex creature and this is why so long after her death people are still talking about this multi- faceted personality. The truth is we will never know the whole story and all the reasons for her decline into addiction. Liza told Mike Wallace years ago that Judy "was a chameleon, a wonderful mosaic. You knew her best when you realized you didn't know her at all."

Judy Garland married gay men because dear old dad was a poof- read ANY bio (he loved teen snake). A rather unreliable "tell all" reports that she "allowed her gay lovers to sodomize her"...she was very accomodating...

Personally, I think dear Judy was running from her own homosexuality and buried it in multiple marriages and assorted addictions. The 1940-1960's were not the safest of times for being gay.

My gaydar has gone off for far too long regarding Judy Garland. Yes, I did see her in concert- a few times in the 1960's.

Judy was a product of her environment. She was manipulated, molested, seduced, verbally and psychologically abused ("hunchback", not allowed to eat as a youngster- always "the kid"); medicated for whatever reason- keep her up, make her sleep, it doesn't matter what it was for but it was. When Joe Mankiewicz saw her at the tender age of 12 he described her as a "nymph coming out of a forest"...lecherous fuck...

She was highly intelligent, talented to an extreme and beautiful- but she was emotionally vulnerable and the damage had been done (even in one of her early movies she is referred to as an "ugly duckling"), she couldn't get away from it.

Judy Garland was and still is recalled by those that knew her as a genius: a kind, lovely generous woman who could at the same time be an obnoxious "enfant terrible".

Let's remember her not only for her imperfections but also for her talents, gifts and for the causes she championed: a few being civil rights, sick and handicapped children (see the movie A Child is Waiting); support for veterans just to name a few.

R13 Well bless your heart dear. He was arrested for inappropriate behavior with a boy and was seen carousing with men which is why they had to leave town. smh I don't know where you're from but where I'm from sex with a person of same gender means you're gay.

You don't need love, sex, or same orientation to get married.

Lavish parties. Gifts from friends and associates. Excuse for binge, orgies, and shopping sprees. Publicity in the papers. Envy or gossip of the town and world all over. Your kids (via whatever) get baby showers, more pressies from acquaintances, you get to run their lives, or ruin them and write songs and plays from All that Dray-ma...It's fun!

Judy: Enormously talented but endlessly troubled. I know nothing about her sexuality or her husbands'. And I don't care. She left a legacy of musical performances that people are welcome to enjoy. Liza: Also extremely talented. I also know nothing about her sexuality or her husbands'. And I don't care.

....

R11 Vincente Minelli was bisexual or even gay..it was pretty obvious and he would go to the Mineshaft sex club and no guy that was hetero would have gone there.

From wiki: Manager Wally Wallace (born James Wallace) said that he turned away Mick Jagger, and a bouncer turned away Rudolf Nureyev.[11] Vincente Minnelli, Rainer Werner Fassbinder, Rock Hudson, and Michel Foucault got in.[12]

[Quote] Vincente Minnelli has never been confirmed as gay. He probably wasn't. I think he was genuinely attracted to Judy,

Vincente Minnelli has never been confirmed as genuinely attracted to Judy. He probably wasn't.