1970's groupies Sable Starr and Lori Mattix

I pointed this out a couple of months ago on another DL thread, and the immediate response was "well the 1970s were a wild times".

When you've got some charisma, people will do backflips through a hoop of fire to excuse your depravity I guess.

OP, there use to be a great site call "zepp family" that had all sorts if photos and commentary on all of Zep's wives, lovers and hoes.

Jimmy Page and Rober Plant were the biggest womanizer. Plant had a kid with his wife's sister.

And yes Jimmy had about a 2-3 year affair with Lori. It started when she was 14. According to gossip he unceremoniously dumped her for BeBe (forget her last name, Liv Tyler's mom). Again, according to gossip, it devasted young Lori.

I think the media covered up a lot of stuff. They knew it was going on. For instance, it was no secret what JFK was up to, but there was an understanding that certain things were not to be discussed and that "boys will be boys." I recall reading that Polanski was shocked at the reaction when his actions hit the press.

And she also looked like a 13 year old! It's not like Page was deceived into thinking she was 18 or something.

All the 13 year olds today squealing over One Direction and Bieber seem so innocent compared to the 70's baby groupies who would stake out the Hyatt House in L.A.

Lori is quoted in the book as saying Page's current wife (who he met as a teenager) looks exactly like her and she takes pride in that.

Yes, back in the seventies it was not considered a big deal for a rock star to be fucking a 14 year old (Page was 29 at the time he was banging Maddox). The way she tells it she was virtually kidnapped, thrown into a limo by one of his goons (reportedly she was told "Jimmy Page is going to have you whether you like it or not") and brought to his hotel. Being a brainless 14 year old, she considered flattering to be treated this way.

Page eventually dumped Lori for Bebe Buell. The story is that he and Bebe were in their hotel room while little Lori banged on the door screaming "Jimmy! Jimmy!" Page found the situation very amusing.

I always thought that as a young girl Maddox looked like a Muppet. Everything about her was oversized: big hair, big eyes, big mouth, big teeth. She was skinny and weird-looking. I thought she looked much better as middle-aged woman than a teenager.

I thought Lori spelled her last name "Maddox".

I've posted a lot in the previous LZ threads here. Page did not meet his last wife as a teen, she was nearly 22 and a young mother when they met in 1994. She was born in 1972 but has always looked very young for her age.

Thanks R2 - will look it up! Did not know that about Plant. How skeevy. John Paul Jones comes off the best of the Zep guys in the book; John Bonham comes across as a maniac. One guy quoted says he was a sociopath, like something out of Straw Dogs.

I had always assumed Page & Plant were close friends but the book says Plant was initially close with Bonham, later close with Jones and always had a tense relationship with Page.

R6, in the book they list her as "Mattix" but maybe that's a typo?

Lori claims to have lost her virginity to David Bowie, pre-Page.

Fucking a 13 year old has been unacceptable for many years. Even when people commonly got married at 13, a lot of people found it too young and thought 15 or 16 was far more appropriate.

Pointing out that things were very different in the 70's isn't condoning pedophilia. Sexual attitudes were changing, also people did not feel comfortable interfering with choices parents made for their children in those days. Some things never change. A casual perusal of Los Angeles will turn up plenty of parents pimping out their 13 year old kids and nobody says a word about it.

Unfortunately, that site no longer exists. Had great pics of Lori and the rest of the baby groupies from that era.

But, if you start to google led Zepp, groupies, etc- you'll go down a rabbit hole and find lots of pics

Just don't go to the official site, they are a crazy obsessed bunch and if u post anything they don't lime u get banned

[quote] And she also looked like a 13 year old! It's not like Page was deceived into thinking she was 18 or something

He always liked young girls. His wife (Jimena) does look exactly like Lori. The first time I ever saw a picture of them and I thought (Jimena) was his daughter

Here's Jimmy and Jimena 10 yrs ago

[quote] Fucking a 13 year old has been unacceptable for many years.

It wasn't ever really acceptable. It was semi acceptable in 1960's - 1970's California with and among celebrities. The press didn't used to be what it is now. You hardly ever heard anything about the private lives of musicians. Just what little they gave out in interviews. There weren't really any paparazzi following musical groups. The only pictures the newspapers printed were professional pictures.

OK going after little kids is wrong but when I was 13 I sure would have loved to have been fucking rockstars and I actually did chase adult men before I was 18. Tricky situation.

Of course it was acceptable. If you look back in history you will see that the normal age for marriage was quite young. At one time, 13 was reasonable to many people although, as I stated, others felt that at least a year or two older was more appropriate.

Juliet's age is given as "not quite 14" in Romeo and Juliet. Romeo's age is not specified but was probably meant to be near hers. Francis II was 14 when he married Mary Stuart, she was 15 and had been sent to live in France years before then. Gandhi married Kasturba when they were both 13. Jerry Lee Lewis married for the first time at 14 and later married his 13 year old cousin.

Societal expectations and the appropriate age for marriage have changed in most cultures, particularly in the West, but it hasn't always been this way. It's not an endorsement, it's simply a fact.

In interviews today, Lori is unrepentant about the experience and doesn't claim to be scarred by it. But she also doesn't seem to be over Page, 40 years later. If it's creepy for a grown man to date a little girl, it's almost comically creepy for him to "break up" with a little girl.

Pfffft!

OP, remember the media back then was nothing like it is today, as another poster said. If a rock star was banging a 13YO these days, it would be all over Twitter, etc., tout de suite.

No one cared that he was having sex with kids, because up until 1979-1982 or there abouts, having sex with a child was a misdemeanor in most states. You were usually fined, or served a short time in jail. Most guys were let off scot-free, and children branded as seducers.

Even child pron was sorta legal, as a lot of city video shops sold European made videos of kids, and rarely ever got in trouble.

Oddly enough, Alison Arngrim had a hand in getting tougher law passed in states and federally.

so David Bowie, Iggy Pop and Jimmy Page were all pedophiles. Disgusting. They never get called on it of course

Page is in the same fucking class as Polanski and Allen. Same for Bowie and Pop. For all the anti-Semitic scum, Page, Pop and Bowie were all not Jewish.

They're trash, darling...

It's totally creepy that there was an era of "child molester chic". 13-year-old groupies, Roman Polanski, Jodie Foster in "Taxi Driver", David Hamilton's "art photos", Brooke Shields in "Pretty Baby", etc. WTF?

It was different then. People were so sick of the Republican/Christian/Catholic conservative morality that had been pushed down their throats earlier in the century, there was overreaction when it came to sexing things up beginning in the late '60s.

R7:

Page & jones were older and more experienced musicians.

Plant & bonham were younger inexperienced hicks drafted out of pure talent.

And Elvis got with Priscilla when she was 14, Steven Tyler had a 14-year-old gf whose parents signed over guardianship to him(!). It really does boggle the mind nowadays. I find it skeevy, but the past is the past. The SJWs who are freaking out now about Bowie should learn to pick their battles better.

It was not accepted in the average family lol Maybe it was accepted in hollywood for men to have sex with girls who were teens and barely teens but I doubt most of the public knew about it. These men are VERY lucky that paparazzi wasn't what it is now or they'd all be either jailed or shamed like Polanski

And I don't think Bowie is really a "pedo" in the way that Gary Glitter is a pedo. If he was still creeping on young girls in his later years, then there might be a case for that, but it seems to me it was more a circumstantial thing. The girls were groupies who were fucking multiple men, so it's not shocking that these drug-addled rock stars didn't all take the moral high road. Of course if there was indeed forcible rape or kidnapping (as in the Polanski or Page case) then that's another level of awfulness.

People had no idea he was screwing a 14-year-old and many would have been disgusted. The groupies who were showcased on TV were older women like Cherry Vanilla and Cynthia Plaster Caster.

R26 That wasn't Tyler, it was Ted Nugent.

The 70s WERE wild! If you weren't there you can't attest to have different it was.

Robert Plant took a beautiful young teenage girl on tour with him in 1977. I'm not sure how old she was, but she looked very young. Her name was Audrey Hamilton, and nobody batted an eye at her presence on the private airplane, backstage, and in Plant's hotel room.

If there's grass on the field...

[quote]That wasn't Tyler, it was Ted Nugent.

It was Tyler...see the link I included. Nugent did the same thing, but his girlfriend was 17...practically ancient!

Jimmy Page didn't kidnap Lori Mattix/Maddox. She wanted to be with him or with any of the guys in the band, that's why she was at their hotel. She had already been with David and Angie Bowie (among others) before she went with Page. She lived with him for years and still speaks well of him. It really was a different time. I don't put rockers from the 70's who fucked sexually experienced groupies in the same category as kiddie-raping pedophiles. We have some pedo-hysterics visiting the DL lately and they are the most tedious of fraus.

Page has been divorced from Jimena (his third wife) for several years. His latest girlfriend is a 25 year old self-published poet. He turned 72 a few days ago. He's an old rock star who likes young women. So what?

[quote]= It really was a different time. I don't put rockers from the 70's who fucked sexually experienced groupies in the same category as kiddie-raping pedophiles. We have some pedo-hysterics visiting the DL lately and they are the most tedious of fraus.

Agreed.

I grew up in Ohio and I'm the same age as many of these groupies being in my teens in the 1970's. When I went from elementary school to Junior High I was stunned at my sexually active 13, 14 year old classmates. These girls were f*cking at 12 and not their classmates either -- many of the guys they were seeing were grown men or at least a few years younger. And this was in the Midwest. Califormia (especially S. California) was *much* wilder. This stuff seems sick today but really, in the early to mid 1970's girls being sexually active wasn't that big of a deal.

My friends did the same in the nineties r37. Surf dudes in our town had the drugs and the cars. We had loads of fun, I don't think anyone felt taken advantage of. We were a lot more immature than we realized at the time of course.

But 13 and 14 year old girls fucking 14 and 15 year old guys (and older of course) wasn't such a big deal to us. It is a very transitional age where some of our classmates were practically still playing with dolls and here we were going clubbing.

God, I seriously had no idea about any of this teen scene. It's equally fascinating and nauseating. I understand the arguments about cultural norms and different standards in the 70s, but it would be interesting to hold these guys somewhat accountable for their behavior. Are there any interviews around where any of these rock stars have been directly asked about sleeping with 13 and 14 yr old girls?

The obits are not going to be printing that David Bowie fucked a 13 year old Lori Maddox, that's for sure.

Back then, of course these men knew that the vast majority of people would regard them as perverted if they knew the rock star was having sex with young teens, this is why they kept it quiet, then as now. Page was very careful to keep Maddox hidden from view. The Beatles kept it quiet that they were fucking multiple teenagers on their tours.

Rock and pop has always been a genre that celebrates het male sexuality in most of its forms and gives extreme license to its most popular stars, whether their behavior is socially acceptable or not. Look at the lyrics of the Stones Stray Cat blues.

There's a recent blind about a singer in a huge pop group whose security invited a 13 year old back to his hotel room and when she got there she was told to shave everything as that's how he liked his girls. She freaked and left. Most guessed it was Zayn Malik.

The culture was so different back then, it's hard to describe, but you had pop stars who were young teens -- Tommy James, Frankie Lymon, Stevie Wonder, Fabian, probably half the singers in popular girl groups in the 1960s, etc. etc. were all well under 18 when they hit it big. People act like this is a new phenomenon, but it has been going on in rock and pop since the beginning. And young kids of 12-15 were marketed to, especially starting in the 1960s. A 13-year-old was considered a kid but at the same time a burgeoning adult, and there were tons of kids 12-15 both on stage, in the audience, and as groupies. It's just how things were at the time.

The baby groupies were no big secret. You can see them in tons of photographs taken for rock magazines, and everyone knew who they were. Parents often knew what their daughters were doing -- Sable Starr's parents knew she was 14 and fucking rock stars, but as long as she went to high school they didn't make too much fuss. If you read the stories from groupies, many say they were never coerced, and often the rockers they hung out with were protective.

That's not always true, though. Page was violent and awful, as were a lot of the punk rockers in the early days. But there was a clear distinction between the way Johnny Thunders treated Sable Starr and the way David Bowie treated her.

The thing is, some people just don't understand the difference. They think Polanski drugging and anally raping a girl who was saying "no" repeatedly is the exact same thing as Pamela Des Barres consensually sleeping with some of the Stones when she was 15. It's all terrible, they say, which is why we get these 19-year-old SJWs who claim that these rock stars were pedophiles, rapists and predators who preyed on little girls who were unaware.

That's just not true. It was a terrible situation but it was heavily condoned in our society to the point of being seen as hip, and you can't judge these individuals in the way you'd judge someone who acted like that now.

R3, JFK went for adult women. The media also kept mum on Bush41's Jennifer, never mind Dubya's Jeff Gannon. Or the midnight pedophilia of the Lincoln Scandal.

It's bad enough Lori Maddox was14; stop saying "13."

r34 Nugent's one gf was 17, but not the others. IIRC, one was 12. He allegedly liked them between 12-15. It was definitely *not* considered the norm for rock stars even back then. There was a documentary on him that promoted his relationship with the 17 year old, in order to have the audience infer that this was his usual age preference.

He was and is a degenerate pig. We had a few stories in one of the late, great gossip threads of him hitting on teenage girls later on in his career (when he started to do the anti-liberal schtick) in such a way that even his supporters were creeped out. I wish the posters would come back and retell them. They were in generically titled threads, so it's hard to use the search feature.

Sinatra was another one who liked them young, according to his new bio.

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Back in the 1970's it was very easy for rock stars to keep their private lives under the radar. They could mostly just give approved interviews that really only came out in magazines once a month.They only released information they wanted the public to know. And the press usually obliged them and only reported what the singers wanted the public to know. We didn't have news 24 hours a day. There were newspapers, but they didn't break stories about rock stars unless the police were involved. I don't know if most people born after the 1980's are even aware of the faces of the members of the band Kiss weren't known for years. They used to wear makeup on stage and no one knew what their real faces looked like without make up on for years. The paparazzi actually used to try to get pictures of them without their makeup on. They were really the only band I remember the paparazzi/press going after, but Kiss hid their identities, so they really sought out the press attention seeking. I remember it was a big deal when The Enquirer or The Star had a partial picture of Gene Simmons face. It was the lead story on the front of the tabloid.

Barely anyone knew about actors/singers/celebs spouses or families. They would be mentioned in interviews but rarely photographed because most magazines came out once a month and didn't have a lot of space to put extra pictures. Now the magazines and websites use every damn photo they can get because they need to have filler for their weekly magazines and websites. There also weren't this many celebs or bands back then.

Lori lost her virginity to Bowie:

'What I remember most about the E Club was Bowie. I met him when he was doing the Spiders from Mars tour. I had not yet turned 15 and he wanted to take me to his hotel room. I was still a virgin and terrified. He had hair the color of carrots, no eyebrows, and the whitest skin imaginable. I grabbed on to [DJ and club co-owner] Rodney Bingenheimer and said I was with him. So we all just hung out and talked. I had probably kissed boys by that point, but I wasn’t ready for David Bowie.

Next time Bowie was in town, though, maybe five months later, I got a call at home from his bodyguard, a huge black guy named Stuey. He told me that David wanted to take me to dinner. Obviously, I had no homework that night. Fuck homework. I wasn’t spending a lot of time at school anyway. I said that I would like to go but that I wanted to bring my friend Sable. She was dying to fuck Bowie. I figured that she would sleep with him while I got to hang out and have fun. At the time, Sable and her sister Coral were both dating Iggy Pop, spending time at the home of Tony DeFries [then-manager of David Bowie and Iggy] up in Laurel Canyon. People there were so high all the time -- Quaaludes, heroin, whatever. In the limo ride to the Rainbow, Sable said, “If you touch David, I will kill you.” I didn’t think she was kidding...'

'..Two hours later, I went to check on Sable. She was all fucked up in the living room, walking around, fogging up windows and writing, "I want to fuck David." I told him what she was doing and that I felt so bad. Bowie said, “Well, darling, bring her in.” That night I lost my virginity and had my first threesome. The next morning, there was banging on the door and it was fucking [Bowie’s wife] Angie. I was terrified of her. David said not to worry about it. They were already at the point where they had separate rooms. She probably knew he’d be in there with girls... or boys. He was totally bisexual. I saw David many times after that, for the next 10 years, and it was always great.'

All sources I found online say she was 13 when she slept with David and Angela Bowie, R43, but I think you're right that she was 14.

That said, her own story was that he was on the Spiders from Mars tour in LA in 1972 when she turned him down, but five months later he was back in LA and she said yes. The tour dates don't line up with that. Five months later he was back in Europe on the tour. He wouldn't play LA again until 1974 when she would have been 16.

As you can see from the picture, it was the Spiders from Mars tour she met him on. That was 1972, and since she was born in 1958, that means she was very likely 14 already.

R35 thinks making songs he likes gives one license to do whatever one pleases. Take off the fan goggles for five seconds you stupid cunt.

Wow the pedo apologist posters in here are pathetic. It was NOT socially accepted by most parents for their young teens to be fucking with adults. Just because someone is famous and maybe no longer goes after underage kids, that does not mean he/she is not a pedo. The idea that a lot of the rock stars mentioned in this thread did it for a period of time means they're disgusting pedos. Appropriately calling someone a pedo does not make me a SJW either. It doesn't matter whether the underage kid involved thinks it was acceptable then or now-it's still sickening.

'It doesn't matter whether the underage kid involved thinks it was acceptable then or now-it's still sickening.'

It reveals a lot about these men, certainly. Bowie was born in a working class home in South London. If he had tried to fuck a 14 year old girl there, he would have had the shit beaten out of him by the men in that community and been labelled a 'kiddie fiddler'. These men used their money and their entourages to exploit these very young, uneducated kids with parents who either didn't give a shit about them or were star struck themselves.

Lori Maddox comes across as - to put it kindly - very low intellect. What were these men talking to her about? Nothing. It was a relationship based on them taking advantage of her sexually and then tossing her like rubbish when they were done. Nice guys.

Lori Maddox was 15, not 13, when Bowie fucked her. I lost my virginity at 15 too. Big deal

Page was one of the many, many celebrity British pervs who love looking at kiddy porn/fucking underage kids. Huge, huge cover-up.

Probably good buddies with Prince Perv Charles and his murderous pedo parents.

If you idiots knew half of what our 'leaders' do behind closed doors, you would burn the world. That is why they cover-up these indiscretions.

Don't the parents bear quite a bit of responsibility here? What kind of parent lets a young teenage girl stay out all night, let alone knowingly allow them to travel with grown male rock stars who are obviously doing lots of drugs and having sex? Allowing your own child to be groomed like that is almost more sickening than the men taking advantage of these already-sexualized teenagers.

R55 absolutely the parents are to blame but so are the adults who take advantage of kids.

Parental sacrifice of children is not new.

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All this about Maddox's age reminds me of the Tura Satana thing that happened when she died. She'd posed for nudes when she was 17 or 18 but later on shaved years off her age, so when she died, people insisted she was only 14 when she posed for nudes and therefore all those pictures were "child porn." Since one photographer was Harold Lloyd, the former silent movie star, people started calling HIM a pedophile, too. It was absolute pandemonium on a couple of internet forums there for a couple of days.

So when Maddox's story doesn't line up with the known facts, and she's the only baby groupie really linked with Bowie, I find it hard to share in the SJW outrage about Bowie being a "pedophile."

[quote]British thing?

Not necessarily. Jerry Lee Lewis chose a bride of 13, this apparently being quite the norm in his culture.

R59 what are you talking about? Both Lori Maddox and Sable Starr were underage when they had sex with Bowie...and there are probably others we don't even know about. He WAS a pedo...doesn't matter if it was for only a brief time period or not.

The designer of the Blind Faith album cover went into nonsensical rapture (years later) about how his photo was about young innocence and spaceships. He claimed he hired an artist to design the spaceship held by the naked 11 year old girl in the cover.

It's actually a phallic hood ornament from a popular American car and she's pointing it downward. Now why would a naked 11 year old girl be holding a phallic American hood ornament pointed in the direction of her genitalia? Doesn't seem all that innocent or space-shippy to me.

[quote]It's totally creepy that there was an era of "child molester chic". 13-year-old groupies, Roman Polanski, Jodie Foster in "Taxi Driver", David Hamilton's "art photos", Brooke Shields in "Pretty Baby", etc

And people are just realizing it now?

I was a kid in the 1970s. It was everywhere. David Hamilton made many films, like Bilithis and Laura, which played in movie theatres. But was exclusively female. "female child molester chic." Can you imagine theatres showing movies with boys in the same vein as David Hamilton films?

don't forget that pedo piece of shit manager guy of the Runaways who died recently.

Or what about Woody Allen's Manhattan? Where a guy in his forties is dating a high school student and nobody bats an eye.

It was not considered normal by the kids themselves even back then. As a kid, I saw it as boomers getting old and bitter and not being able to handle not being young themselves anymore, so they sleeved on the young/junior highers like they still were peers. It wasn't just Led Zeppelin. (I was first wave Gen X although there wasn't a name for it then.)

There was also a wave of young teen girls, that no matter what their socio-Econ background, who had decided that being tough, drug-addled trash was a form of freedom to get away from their parents. The differences between parent and child then were really severe back then.

And that post had so many errors I wish I could delete it! Well, maybe you can get the gist anyway. Anyway, Sable came from my neighborhood, though maybe 10-15 years ahead of me. Not considered normal.

[quote]Can you imagine theatres showing movies with boys in the same vein as David Hamilton films?

I can!

1970s mainstream magazine ad.

Whoa...that ad is nauseating (although I'm sure Mrs. Patsy Ramsey, formerly of Boulder, CO would be quite ok with it). How the fuck did that get approved?

And to think people got all worked up about those Calvin Klein ads in the '90s...

It's not hysteria to label these creeps 'pedos'...it's apt. PERIOD.

For anyone in the know, is there any gossip on the Beatles with any of the child/baby groupies? I know it's a 70s thing but was there a big groupie scene in the UK?

My great-aunt Earline got married when she was 12, in 1922.

This girl wasn't a groupie, but she describes the dynamics behind young teenage girl/older man 'relationships.'

The Exorcist ushered in this pedo chic. If you can show a young girl possessed by the devil and masturbating wildly with a cross, you can basically show anything. Yes, young girls were mainly the object of pedo desire back in the 1970s. It was mainstream. Not so with boys. The only film I can think of is the seldom seen La luna, directed by Bernardo Bertolucci and starring Jill Clayburgh.

The story-line : While touring in Italy, a recently-widowed American opera singer has an incestuous relationship with her 15-year-old son to help him overcome his heroin addiction.

I doubt anyone would green light a story like this today.

What was the theory behind the notion that fucking your mother would cure your heroin addiction?

The thing is, most straight men would happily fuck any post-pubescent girl if they were allowed to. Why do you think they came up with the term "jailbait" to describe underaged girls? That term assumes that the desire to fuck young girls is actually normal, but that jail is the only deterrent. Probably true, in societies where the age of consent is lower or nonexistent, straight men go for it and the little girls are in for a rough time.

It was that way in the US, back in the seventies and late sixties there was a perfect storm on that front: The pill-fueled sexual revolution, masses of young people becoming seriously involved in politics and protests, the hippies, etc. Teenagers refused to accept the limits placed on children and a lot of adults accepted them as more or less adult, kids in their teens were protesting in the streets or dying in Vietnam, etc. Nobody wanted to place any sexual limits on teenagers, unconcerned grownups went along with the fashionable pretense that kids were their equals, and parents were afraid that if they said "no" their little darlings would run away from home (as was the style).

Of course that time was hog heaven for pedos, creeps, abusers, and other lowlifes. Boys and girls thought that if they said "no" they'd be totally uncool, parents were afraid to place any limits on their kids' activities, and the police were reluctant to act if the kid was willing. Yeah, I'm old as dirt, but having lived through that time and seeing today's hysterical overprotectiveness of teenagers really gives a person something to think about.

it's odd that even now 40 years later, Lori Maddox doesn't see a problem with the adult male celebs who had sex with her as a young teen. She still looks back at those times as magical and even said she wishes she could return to that era. What a messed up person. She really had a horrible mother to allow that.

Well, would it be better if she was totally traumatized for life, bitter, and miserable? If she doesn't feel like a victim, and doesn't suffer from depression or anything like that, then she's lucky.

It's a bit sad. She was basically used as cum dumpster and doesn't have anything to show for it except for some stories.

R79 it doesn't have to be the other extreme. It's just shocking that there's no recognition from Maddox that what happened was wrong and inappropriate. She still glorifies it. It's like she's stunted emotionally and intellectually.

R80 exactly

R81 That's why it is wrong, really. It's not the sex, it's the aftermath. The psychological damage and stunted growth after Mr. Rock Star goes away. If I'd been the parents and discovered this, I would have demanded millions in trust for when she turned 30.

R82:

And you would have failed miserably and been on your knees hoping you weren't counter sued for legal fees...

[quote]The Exorcist ushered in this pedo chic.

No. Baby groupies were around in the 1960s, and naked young kids in adverts and films were around easily five years before The Exorcist.

Here's a 1963 Joanna Petit and Severn Darden interview/article, where a naked girl of about eight is used for "artistic" purposes.

Bowie's death is the best thing that has probably happened to good old Lori Maddox in a long time. Some news outlet or print publication will surely dig her up, won't they? And, she can talk about being 'seduced' by Ziggy Stardust.

I'd like to hear from the girl that let Led Zeppelin molest her with a shark. Now, that's better than any virginity story.

I was born in 1966. A lot of girls I went to jr high and high school with had older boyfriends that had already graduated. Most of them were "secret boyfriends". They didn't bring them home to meet their parents, but a few of them did. A lot of people I went to high school with got married right after they graduated. You only had to be 16 to get married (you did need your parent's permission though). I remember always being embarrassed because my mom was 24 when she had me. All my friends parents were 18 or 19 when they had them. I always felt like I had an old mom (it's funny now)

I don't remember anyone in my town being arrested for having an underage girlfriend. But for some reason it was a really, really big legal deal to buy liquor for underage kids. It was called "contributing to the delinquincy of a minor". And anyone who was caught had to serve an automatic jail sentence. You only had to be 18 to drink alcohol and 16 to smoke cigarettes. we actually had a smoking area in all the high schools for students who wanted to smoke on their breaks. It was a completely different time back then

[quote]She was basically used as cum dumpster and doesn't have anything to show for it except for some stories.

Many people can say this, regardless of age, gender, and sexual orientation. I read such giddy personal accounts from DL posters regularly.

Re: R63 and R75. Evidently Warners were so concerned about 'Death In Venice' (1971) that its US release was in doubt. The company relented when a UK Royal Premiere - in the presence of The Queen and Princess Anne - was arranged. (That's 'Old Europe' for you.)

Hence the story of a US executive being heard to say, "What I don't get is why The Queen of England would want her daughter to see a story about some old guy chasing a young guy's ass."

The film of course had its grand credentials: Thomas Mann (Nobel Laureate), Luchino Visconti, Dirk Bogarde, Mahler, Venice. Different times indeed, and an unthinkable project today, grandeur or not.

If you click the link about Steven Tyler at r26, you'll find a link to an updated story from the groupie herself (Julia Holcomb). According to her, she was actually 16 when they met. She says Steven Tyler forced her into having an abortion when she was 5 months pregnant, and the baby was born alive and left to die. Steven was terrified the baby would be drain-bamaged due to Julia having suffered severe smoke inhalation in a fire. I guess he had a point, but the way she tells it, it sounded like the doctor thought the baby was ok. Arguably the worst outcome of all was that the experience turned her into a Roman Catholic pro-lifer.

"That's why it is wrong, really. It's not the sex, it's the aftermath. The psychological damage and stunted growth after Mr. Rock Star goes away. If I'd been the parents and discovered this, I would have demanded millions in trust for when she turned 30."

Bitch, you are very transparent. But you can give up your case, because Bowie was never a pedo and those girls aren't worth shit. If you don't respect yourself, you can't expect others will. Only one straight guy in a thousand turns down sex with a girl that is pretty and is offering herself to him. Everybody knows that, that's why nobody cares about what those groupies willingly did. They chose to lead that wasteful life.

You, on the other hand, are trying to tarnish the memory of a man who died and can't defend himself. You are a vicious cunt and that needs to be said. Now go be with those wortheless groupies you're so concerned about, and please follow their lead and go fuck yourself.

R90 has a point. There is a world of dfference between a groupie pursuing a star and a sheltered schoolgirl being coerced. There is no suggestion that Bowie ever coerced anyone or pursued anyone. He was the prize. In the 70s there was the accepted societal view that if it's being offered up on a plate most men would partake. We no longer take that view as a society who have recognised that early sexual experiences can be emotionally damaging but we can't impose current mores and morality the past.

Lori herself is emphatic that there was nothing coercive about her experiences and has been for decades. Who are we to disbelieve her? That doesn't mean that in general it's a good idea for grown ass powerful men to avail themselves of underage women. It's not and it was inappropriate and he should have known better. But that's different than rape and coercion.

What did she do with her life post-groupiedom?

Law School

I went to high school from 78 to 82. I knew lots of girls as a freshman who were dating guys as old as 25. One girl, very beautiful, got married to an "older" guy and continued school. We saw him drop her off in the mornings and pick her back up. It was just a different time with different social mores.

R42 Bullshit. JFK was fooling around with interns in their teens. God knows if one of them was illegal. He was such a philandering piece of shit.

[quote]Well, would it be better if she was totally traumatized for life, bitter, and miserable?

Sounds like she is traumatized for life since she still wishes she was living back in those days.

[quote]No. Baby groupies were around in the 1960s, and naked young kids in adverts and films were around easily five years before The Exorcist.

You didn't quite get the point i.e. Exorcist. It was extreme. There was no turning back after that. And it was mainstream. Something everyone talked about.

R88, yes Death in Venice also has some controversial stuff in it but you can't compare such a film with David Hamilton films which showed young girls making out with each other.

Well, but The Exorcist was able to be extreme because of all the "tamer" stuff that came before it, R97. It didn't start what you call "pedo chic," it was a direct product of it.

Looking back at some of the groupie pics I'm struck by how thin the girls were. Muffin tops, matronly butts and thunder thighs have taken over.

From wiki on Sable Starr:

[quote]She had a younger sister, Corel Shields (born 1959), who was involved with Iggy Pop at age 11, although he was also acquainted with Sable.

11??

Yeah, Iggy was a fucking mess.

R99: I wasn't referencing Bowie, nutcase.

Meant r90, not r99.

'Iggy Pop had sex with an 11 year old' is on wiki and his lawyers haven't forced them to edit? Oh, DEAR.

Joan Didion was writing about the hippy scene with a sharp eye in the sixties and seventies, she saw that huge numbers of the young hippy girls were teen runaways, fleeing incest and other types of abuse. Running away was a major thing back then.

So on the West Coast there were thousands of runaway girls, no money, no home, no parents who gave a shit about them. Men arrived in SF in 67, 68 with the specific intent to drug them and have sex with them , or rape them, it's in Slouching Towards Bethlehem and her article on the Manson Family. This scene is what was dressed up as 'Free Love'.

The Runaways stories that were covered last year showed the reality of how girls were treated in rock back then. Unless you were a Joni Mitchell or a Emmylou Harris, smart and self-protecting, you were treated like shit.

I can't overstate how common it was for teenagers to run away from home in those days. Not just girls and boys fleeing abusive homes, but boys fleeing the draft, gay kids who were thrown out, idiots who were sick of school, druggies in search of drugs, poor kids who figured anything was better than the life they knew, etc. The middle-class "silent majority" was horrified, and believed that their kids were in danger of the girl in "Go Ask Alice", and as I said above, they were afraid that if they ever tried to say "no" to their hellspawn then the kids would run away and turn tricks for heroin instead of going to college. That may be why the parents of those underaged groupies went along with it, although of course they may have had more sinister motivations.

There was a lot of romanticization of running away, as in the Simon and Garfunkle song "America", at the link, and Ginsberg and Kesey's Merry Pranksters and so on. Kids really thought that if they took that great leap into the unknown, and I suppose it may have actually happened for one or two of them.

Yes, R106, and don't forget the Beatles' "She's Leaving Home."

' I suppose it may have actually happened for one or two of them.'

A few no doubt made good, but all too many ended up a sad mess, or worse case, easy pickings for Manson.

I wonder if any DLers ran away?

I ran away but lasted one afternoon only, until my bags of chips and candy ran out.

Well-adjusted young women generally speaking wouldn't tend to hang around rock musicians hoping they'll be picked to give them a blow job, but an emotionally disturbed teenager would probably feel like she hit the jackpot.

Someone upthread asked about The Beatles and teens. Their tours were orgies. Every one of them fucked countless teenagers in the States, their hotel suites were full of them.

Different time. You have to remember people didn't shelter and infantilize kids to the extent they are today. Many of the parents may have been sexually experimenting themselves, going to key parties and other shit, not necessarily neglecting them. I remember being a latch key kid from a fairly young age and no one batted an eye back then.

For 32 YEARS I was a teenage runaway!

Lots of jealous cunty prudes on this thread

groupies are not interesting

What do you call a hooker who doesn't get paid?

A groupie!

Disgusting. Reading about Sable and her sister "dating" Iggy Pop, I obviously assumed her older sister.

R111

Not my sweet Beatles! No, I'm kidding, but I am curious if they were ever linked to 'famous' groupies. You hear all about their peers fucking 13 year olds, etc. but not so much about what they did specifically.

What did Lori Maddox do with the rest of her life? Wait tables, get married?

Good question R119. I wonder if there is a WEHT site dedicated to groupies. I think I read once that she retired from being a groupie and lives quietly. Can't remember is she ever married but she seems to still carry a torch for Page even though he treated her like garbage.

Here's the 1970 documentary Groupies..

People who brag about being on the DL since the 90s are looking down on groupies for not doing more with their lives...

Now, THAT'S rich!

One of the things our young pearl-clutchers don't seem to get is that some of these teen girls were deliberately going after older men because the men treated them better than teen boys did--you want your first time to be with a pimply kid who can't control himself and doesn't know what he's doing?

Or as a letter-writer to Salon explained--one of the great things about sleeping with a rock star is that they went away. You could explore sex and not worry about having a relationship--or with the advent of the Pill and ready access to abortion worry about getting pregnant.

AIDS, abortion restriction, general increase in conservatism changed attitudes--it's funny how some people can't wrap their heads around things being different at the time.

In an alternative analysis, R123 : they had daddy issues.

Yes, and those all those "little" girls were crazy in lust with those long-haired rockers of that era. They were the One Direction and Beiber's of their time. Girls had better taste back then IMO.

R123 = straight

[R124] Maybe, but the guys in question weren't that old. Bowie was 24-25 when he was playing with Lori. The Beatles were in their early 20s when they became famous. We're talking Baby Boom here--the median age of the population was nearly 10 years younger than it is now.

Sable looked 40, even with her boyish body. There's a pic of her with Debbie Harry, who must have been not far from 35, and Sable looks way older than Deb.

Lori OTOH...

I knew girls in HS in the eighties who went after older guys - the most extreme I recall was a 15 year old girl sleeping with the driver of the school bus, he must have been in his thirties. But all the girls who did that came from broken homes or they never knew their dad. One girl's dad had died in a plane crash when she was really young and she was dating a 25 year old creep when she was 14 or 15. The girls from stable homes crushed on pop stars and wanted to date the boys in their year or the boy next door. They didn't want to start fucking till 17, 18.

Sable was not that great looking. No tits at all. Lori was very pretty with those over-sized features and thick hair.

'No tits at all'

One of the aspects of her 'success' with these men that raises the eyebrows.

Courtney Love told Howard Stern that she gave Ted Nugent a blowjob when she was just 12.

That whore started early!

I say that R131 but also noticed a lot of the groupies didn't have big tits and all where very thin but I think I'm looking through eyes used to big inflated bolt on tits and either fat girls or too toned.

There were fat girls back then, R133.

But all those groupies were pre-pubescent thin.

[quote] One of the aspects of her 'success' with these men that raises the eyebrows.

Twiggy had ushered in the no tits beanpole era. I wouldn't take it as a gayish preference.

Pedo preference was implied r135

Underage boys and girls aren't physically or emotionally ready for sex on adult terms, which is why there are statutory rape laws. I understand how musicians on tour get a taste for fucking their little fans, since that's what's available to them for free. Also because any adult woman with sense would look for better options than clap-ridden druggie monomaniacs with a recording contract.

R137 there was a discussion here a long time ago about the baby groupies and why so many of these guys still go for so much younger women even when they are grandfathers. Someone surmised that much younger, dumb girls are easier to manipulate and dump and many of these rock starts are themselves stunted emotionally. They may even be threatened by mature, intelligent women who certainly wouldn't be as easy to manipulate and much less likely to put up with their shit.

It was very easy for teens to leave home because hitch hiking was very common and not considered dangerous. The Manson murders changed everything. Parenting has changed a lot since the 60s as well and runaways and throwaways are no longer as common.

I'd cut the musicians som slack because of the massive drug usage of the time and the fact that the girls were so aggressive. They fought to get into those hotel rooms.

'I know you don't like weak women. You get bored so quick. And you don't like strong women 'cause they're hip to your tricks'

'I wouldn't take it as a gayish preference.'

I took it as a pedophile's or an ephebophile's preference, not the preference of a gay man.

Still a lot of ignorance here. The defenders of these disgusting celeb adult rockers are idiots. Lori Maddox says in 1 of her interviews that Jimmy Page basically "kidnapped" (she uses that word) her the first time they met. She initially turned him down but he had his people physically put her into the car/limo. She said he said to her "I told you you were going to be with me". She only "fell in love" with him after their first night together. She was 15. They were together for a while and he even asked her mother for permission because he was worried about getting in trouble with the law. Lori said he "broke her heart" 1 night when she walked into their hotel room and he was in bed with Bebe Buell (the groupie who gave birth to Liv Tyler). Clearly to Lori, it wasn't just "casual sex" with Jimmy Page. She thought they were an exclusive couple. That shows that she wasn't emotionally mature enough for the situation she was in.

How can anyone argue that underage teens back then were so mature? That's complete bullshit. The fact of the matter is that these adult male celebs liked the idea of being in control and being worshiped. Teens like Lori gave them what they craved and had no idea that they were just used as sex objects. It's also very clear looking at her pics from back then that she was clearly underage. She certainly didn't look anywhere near 18

The way Lori continues to glorify her experiences from back then is really sad and embarrassing.

BTW for the poster who asked, Lori said in an interview that she "has a job in fashion" whatever that means.

For those wondering, here's a more recent pic of Lori (with Bebe and radio DJ Rodney Bingenheimer. It's from a few years ago

There really should be a where are they now groupie site as a poster up above suggested. I'm genuinely curious to know about these ladies lives and how they turned out. Are there well known male groupies?

Yes, those girls were thin, but a lot of kids in their early teens are naturally very slight, even if they don't use drugs. I would be very, very surprised if those little groupie girls could pass a drug test during those years, I'll put it that way, and that's probably one reason they were so tiny.

Girls weren't generally that scrawny in those days, in fact if you look at films from that time the actresses will look a bit thick to modern eyes as they weren't pressured to hit a size zero. Obese girls were incredibly rare, and so were anorectics and fitness nuts. Most girls were at a healthy, natural weight back then, some were a bit skinny and some were a bit plump, but I never saw a girl or boy far out of a normal BMI.

Probably because that was before they started poisoning our food supply

'Lori said in an interview that she "has a job in fashion" whatever that means.'

It means she worked in a vintage clothing store on Melrose

Google is everyone's friend. Lori Mattix (Maddox) played a bit loose with her age in those interviews, or maybe was asked or advised to fib. She absolutely was 13 when she 1st met Bowie and 14 when she slept with him.

California birth records are publicly available online and show Lori born in mid-Nov 1958. Per wikipedia The Spiders from Mars tour pulled into Santa Monica in Oct. 1972, and returned to play Long Beach in March '73. There's the five month gap she discussed. Dates don't lie and they line up.

Am a huge Bowie fan but don't harbor delusions about his drugged out early years, married to Angie and fucking around with anything with a pulse.

Lori indeed was working at one point in a Melrose shop or boutique, while still hanging around backstage at rock shows. She had a son in the 80's who would obviously be grown now.

Who is the father R148?

Your guess is as good as anyone's, including Lori's R149.

I watched part of r121's link. Amazing what would pass for documentaries in those days! I really wanted to see the Hendrix cast; for anyone interested, its somewhere in the last 15 mins or so. Impressive!

Overall, those groupies are beastly, and gross. Loud and obnoxious

WOW the 70's were gross.

I've been used as a cum dumpster and I can't even write a book about it because nobody cares about the guys who fucked me.

Lori was very pretty in a sort of unusual way. Sable on the other hand looked like an old washed up tranny.

R138, I've always thought it was interesting that there were never any famous or accomplished women linked to any of the Zep guys in their heyday, unlike the Stones or even the Beatles. It was all young groupies and bottomfeeder types. Easier to control, and to leave, I guess.

Pamela Des Barres and Bebe Buell have both expressed distaste for the baby groupie phenomenon, with Pamela intimating that a number of them, including Lori, were out there trying to snag a rock star at the behest of 'older women' - in Lori's case, her mom. In other words, they were essentially being pimped out.

My ostensible brother-in-law is like that, R138. Not a rock star but a handsome guy who, ever since his first relationship with a smart, capable woman, has targeted younger women who are dumb as bags of hair. Nice ladies, all pretty, but at least one had a learning disability, which is how he likes it. He can sit around with a part-time job, knocking up women and drinking Corona all day and they just take it.

Ah, you're right, R148 -- I missed that Long Beach date right before the Asian leg of the tour.

Lori has claimed her birth year to be 1960 in several instances, which has complicated things somewhat.

'unlike the Stones'

Mick and Keith are the only ones who chose women with some intellect : Faithful, Pallenberg, Bianca.

Bill dated a 13 year old Mandy Smith. Smith herself confirmed publicly that she was 14 when they first had sex, and her older sister had called for him to be prosecuted.

He married her when she was 18. He was 49.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Wow, that article says Mandy's 51 year old mother had a relationship with Wyman's son who was 24 at the time. It didn't say when the relationship started but it lasted until 1994. And Mandy has been celibate since 2002. I guess you could say that relationship affected her greatly. Sad.

[quote]vPamela intimating that a number of them, including Lori, were out there trying to snag a rock star at the behest of 'older women' - in Lori's case, her mom. In other words, they were essentially being pimped out.

This thread has made me think about the Polanski rape. The victim was encouraged by her mother to allow Polanski to "photograph" her and was driven to Nicholson's home by mom. Were this episode to have happened today, the mother would likely face some sort of legal issues.

If Wyman's son had married Mandy's mother, Mandy's stepson would also have been her stepfather.

Nice!

Hillbillies and bogans, all of them.

People back then expected and trusted parents to take care of their own children. If the parents were okay with those girls hanging out with and screwing rock stars, others may have thought it was wrong but they didn't get involved. It was on the parents.

I find it both funny and pathetic that that old whore Pamela des Barres feels justified in being judgmental towards anyone.

Well, you guys did it, you conjured up Bebe at R165. Hi, Bebe!

[quote] Hillbillies and bogans, all of them.

You forgot chavs.

Jimmy Page (Paige?) was involed with Jackie DeShannon for a while, but that was pre Led Zeppelin.

Her name was mentioned 3x, R166, She's got a program crawling the web for mentions of her name. It was hilarious when she'd show up on AGC. I miss that group.

I love Bebe but she lost me at one point. When she said that Elvis Costello was beautiful?! The guy is mad talented but gorgeous? No fucking way. He looks like the type of geek Shatner told to get a life.

Even weirder she got her boyfriend,Todd Rundgren, to pretend he was Liv Tyler's dad. Bebe must have some magical pussy. It also seems that Liv considers Todd just as much of her dad as Steven Tyler is.

I have mixed feelings about Lori's perspective about her "glory" days. On the one hand, I feel as if she got stuck in time and never attained any self worth outside of her past brush with stardom. Isn't this just a replay of so many threads here that rehash the idea of sleeping with major or minor celebrities, and those posts are recanting adult escapades.

Bebe is so delusional that in her memoir, she claimed Prince - who doesn't know her - wrote 'Little Red Corvette' about her. Why? Because of the lyric 'baby, you're much too fast' - the mannered way he pronounces the word 'baby' sounds a bit like 'Bebe'. Therefore the song is a message from him to her about her life. She is such a legend in the music world that brilliant world-famous musicians are using their art to give her advice. Right? Right.

Poor Liv.

lmao R172 I can't believe she actually wrote that shit and thought anyone would believe her.

She thinks Elvis sends her messages in his songs too. It's sad.

on the other hand r171, it beats getting married to a Walmart manager and spending your life living with three kids in Reseda.

Lori's 'fame' as a groupie kept her tight in the LA rock scene for years, well into adulthood. She was a fixture on the club scene and continued to party with rockers well into her 30s. She even continued her thing with Page in the late 80s when he used to visit LA.

The sad thing about these groupies is that they didn't parlay their "connections" into nest eggs. Where's forethought?

They are both pretty unattractive. I doubt they were very smart either. I guess that's why they became groupies?

Young, naive, pliable, without any pride.

I don't believe that BbB wrote that comment at R165.

Because where would she get off using "old whore" as an insult?

Another groupie, Morgana Welch, write about a conflict with Sable & Lori, teenaged girls fighting over 30 year old men:

"We arrived back at the Hyatt House minutes before Led Zeppelin made their way to the lobby. Richard Cole was not happy that we were going with them, but John Paul said it was OK. The limo was very crowded with the entire band, Roy Harper, a roadie or two, us, and another girl. The first stop was Rodney Bingenheimer‘s club, the former Ooh Poo Pa Doo’s on Sunset. Upon our arrival, Sable, Lori Maddox, and Queenie, the very young groupies, noticed who were at the VIP table. Tyla and I thought they were ridiculous, sleazy, and obnoxious. We knew Queenie before Sable and Lori hit the club scene. We used to hang out and dance from time to time. Now she is one of them.

We were having a good time listening to the music and watching Rodney, who is a bit too weird for me. Flashbacks of the one night we spent together have forever haunted me. At the main table sat Robert Plant, Tyla, me, John Paul Jones, some girl we had never seen before, and John Bonham. It was John Bonham’s birthday, and the band was celebrating. The waitress came to the table with several more pitchers of beer and a birthday cake. No one saw that a photographer, Richard Creamer, was about ready to snap some pictures. Sable and Lori must have known because all of a sudden, they were at our table. John Paul Jones must have seen it coming too because he jumped up and flipped someone off, Rodney I think. Sable tried to position herself on Robert Plant’s lap, and when she did, he gave her a funny look. Lori tried to get as close to John Bonham as possible. Tyla and I were watching them in disbelief. That began to fuel a feud that was about to begin between Tyla and Sable. Once the pictures were taken, John Bonham threw the birthday cake at the photographer. We all had a good laugh at that one. He was not happy at the intrusion, nor was anyone else.

When the things calmed down, Tyla and I went to dance to give a little show of our own. The Led Zeppelin music was blaring. We were having a great time knowing the band might be watching us—again that voyeurism thing. Sable and Lori, seeing an opportunity, also started dancing. That was when the catfight started. Sable got too close to Tyla, and they spat out a few unpleasant words. Then Tyla kicked Sables leg hard. Tyla went into the bathroom, and Sable followed. Wicked words were exchanged. Tyla set the bleach blond straight. It was funny.

Soon Zeppelin was ready to leave Rodney’s and go to the Rainbow. Unfortunately, Sable and Lori now joined us in the limo. The birthday celebration kept on going. Once we arrived at the Rainbow, the downstairs bar had been cleared out for the band. John Paul disappeared to my great disappointment. He was probably pissed off with the episode at Rodney’s. After I walked around the place for a while, I went into the bar where I saw Jimmy Page and Roy Harper having a drink at the bar. They both were pretty drunk, and it was easy to stroll by and get noticed. Roy Harper was very friendly; Jimmy Page reserved. Damn! Yet it was Jimmy Page who first made mention of my belt. See, it does pay off to wear something like a whip when you go out. Roy Harper jokingly bet Jimmy Page that he would orgasm first if I should beat them with the whip. My mind started going. I played out the scene of whipping them until they orgasmed in my head. They challenged me to the contest, and when I agreed, they backed out. Too bad. I was looking forward to taking them up on the suggestion. Imagine the fun! I told them they were too scared to try it out.

Christ, imagine if that were the highlight of your life. What a dumb fucking whore. She's not even worth an exclamation point.

I bet she was a real minx

Anyone have any gossip on John Bonham?

So much of these groupie tales are exaggerated bullshit. I guess it makes for good gossip, but some of the pearl clutching upthread is hilarious.

Page had already let Lori know he was into her and she kept saying Pamela was going to kick her ass, but of course she was going to hook up with him anyway. She wasn't really worried about getting beat up, come on. Nobody [italic]actually[/italic] kidnapped Lori. There are pictures of her hanging out with the band the night she took off with Page. Leaving poor Pamela humiliated and furious.

I don't believe she lost her virginity to Bowie. Bitch, please. I'm not even fully convinced she fucked him at all. And in the retellings her age always gets younger than she actually was. I mean she was young, but she was 15 going on 16 when she hit the scene. Not 13.

I'v read all the rock star bios on LZ, Bowie et al. I'v read all the groupie books, too. Such a crazy time in rock music. But if you read as many as I have, you start to see the time lines a bit clearer and get a better sense of who told tall tales (Lori) and who was more honest (Pamela).

“The thing is, most straight men would happily fuck any post-pubescent girl if they were allowed to.”

This from R77. True in every era. Is there any nubile teen girl anywhere who didn’t notice a grown man’s eyes on her in that way? Their own father or his friends? However briefly and not acted on, you just feel it as a girl. I thought it was just part of growing up. I’m not even talking real pervs acting on it, it’s still uncomfortable, and oddly powerful.