Ani DiFranco Sisterhood Meltdown!

She's a fucking idiot for even considering that place. And that apology is fucked up.

Everyone is stating their boundaries at the same time and no one can hear what anyone is saying.

That means that they will have to state them again. I shudder, systers....

Here's the original statement from her camp, written by Buddy Wakefield -- a MAN:

[quote]Howdy shitstorm e'erybody! As a Righteous Babe who was naively excited to participate in this event I'm not necessarily able to make a comprehensive public statement today due to spinning full plates and a cruddy case of the crud. Until I or Ani or Toshi or anyone else are able to respond from our personal perspectives on the blunder, I think it'd be most productive for y'all to continue assuming the absolute worst, don't you dare ask thoughtful questions as to how this really went down, venomously insult Ani and her years of efforts, then write as many demolishing statements and articles as possible in an effort to eternally shackle her to this oversight. If forgiveness is off the menu, consider compassion and the possibility of extenuating circumstances before discounting 20+ years of sincere activism. I think it's pretty safe to say all the artists involved are amply bummed about the situation, and that your hateful approaches/vitriolic statements/narrow understanding of how things transpired have safely arrived to our inboxes. I happen to know that given all the facts I/we were otherwise not privy to, Ani is cancelling. You can all go feed on someone else's mistakes very soon.

...Ahhhhni is not even an actual lesbian, is she?

If one is going to live their life by restricting where they go based on whether slaves lived there in past, there really are not going to be a lot of places for them to visit.

What a bunch of whackadoodles!

A white Ani defender named Mandi created a black sockpuppet Facebook account as "LaQueeta Jones" in an attempt to show Ani some black support.

I have a feeling this is going to get even funnier.

how is the apology fucked up? These queens seriously need to examine where their anger is going, carrying on like Ani was waving a confederate flag while singing on the porch at Tara.

Eh. I can understand it. Having a retreat at a place that 1) used to be a place where slaves were forced to live and work and 2) is currently owned by a right-wing, anti-gay politician is NOT the best place to have something "righteous" go down.

Ahhhhhni lives in New Orleans, and there are a ton of places where people can have gatherings and conferences that don't carry such baggage. It's a pretty travel-friendly destination with all kinds of accommodations.

The "apology" is very passive-aggressive.

Not a dyke: gash 4 ca$h

Are there any buildings in NOLA where no slaves worked? I bet not. It's one of the downers of living in the south. So should she have to pull out the surveying maps and tax records for the last 250 years anytime she wants to do something in the vicinity to assure her fans that not one slave foot stepped on the property?

Please take this social justice warrior shit off of Datalounge and over to your Tumblr hugboxes, lesbians. You are not wanted here.

R12,

You know you love the fake warrior shit--just look at how many Michfest threads there are.

You'd be a happier person if you admitted it to yourself.

r12 has STATED HIS BOUNDARIES!

LQueeta? Really?

There are a few heterosexual women who try to construct the world around them in a way that's more of a level-playing field for women and men but they always end up with typical heterosexual relationships where the male takes the protective and leading role. I think it's about establishing an identity like many young people do who later on go in a tradional direction.

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

Hetero women are insane.

Hasn't she been married to men a couple of times, had a baby the old fashioned way, etc? I have no idea why she has fans because she's really untalented.

It's odd I've heard of this woman yet I am not familiar with a single piece of her work.

She's awful. I had a guy friend who was obsessed with her and would make mixed tapes of her crap. I thought he was nuts, but he insisted I should like her because she's gay. However, she's not! She loves men and her whole women-power bs is just her false persona.

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

Why is it so hard for ani to apologize? She made a mistake. Apologize. (Properly)

And then move on. It's what grown-ups do.

"amply bummed"

Ugh. Activate the Straight Male Hipster sirens.

With the holidays winding down, I was concerned we would be bored until the Midway 2 Michfest lunacy started. This couldn't have come at a better time!

Didn't she introduce "Heartbeat, It's a Lovebeat"?

Bump for more drama.

It might be evil but I'm enjoying this drama. Both sides are being a little ridiculous.

There was actually one song of hers that I liked...it was a live performance on the Conan O'Brien show. I can't remember the song's name, but I liked it. I think it was in the 90s.

I don't know if I would have liked it as much knowing she was straight. Isn't that interesting? When I know an artist is gay, I appreciate their work more. It's like they had something to overcome...being rejected by society. It makes them more interesting to me.

I loved, loved, loved The Smiths when I was in college...perhaps partly because at the time, there was a rumor that at least Morrissey was an AIDS activist. Sadly, Morrissey is now a world class cunt these days. But I digress.

Ani DiFranco has never courted the mainstream, hence why she has not had that success.

Her brilliance is the type that mainstream audiences are scared shitless of.

Well, I'm bored at work...so I'm casually reading her blog with an open mind.

So far, she doesn't seem to "get it."

[quote] i have heard the feedback that it is not my place to go to former plantations and initiate such a dialogue.

See, now that's passive aggressive. I don't think the negative feedback is about HER & her "place." It's about the insensitivity to hosting a writing retreat on land where human beings were forced to do hard labor against their will for no pay...because of their skin color, which ani does not share.

Shitney Troll must be having a meltdown.

[quote] It's about the insensitivity to hosting a writing retreat on land where human beings were forced to do hard labor against their will for no pay...

It's just dirt.

So do we avoid vacationing or going on business trips to the South because every farm had slaves? Do we avoid all the states that the Trail of Tears went through? Do we avoid visiting Egypt in memory of the Hebrews? Europe, in memory of the medieval serfs? Rome and Greece, in memory of their slaves? Mexico because of the hundreds of thousands enslaved and gruesomely sacrificed by the Aztecs?

Pretty soon, you're going to run out of real estate.

[quote]if nottoway is simply not an acceptable place for me to go and try to do my work in the eyes of many

victim mentality...not really "hearing" her critics, imo.

[quote] i know that the pain of slavery is real and runs very deep and wide. however, in this incident i think is very unfortunate what many have chosen to do with that pain.

I can't believe she's defending herself. I agree with the post that she should just apologize and move on.

[quote]i cancel the retreat now because i wish to restore peace and respectful discourse between people as quickly as possible.

Actually, she canceled it because she really stepped in it hard and doesn't want to come clean. Isn't that what she built her career on...criticizing the status quo to force them to new thought?

She doesn't like being called out. She canceled because she was pissed.

[quote]as to the matter of the current owner of the resort and his political leanings, that was brought to my attention yesterday and it does disturb me. but it also begs further questions: who are all the owners of all the venues i or any other musician play?

Deflection. Stay on topic, ani. A former slave plantation is not a typical venue and you know it. You demand honesty in others. Why not from yourself?

[quote]maybe we should indeed have drawn a line in this case and said nottoway plantation is not a good place to go; maybe we should have vetted the place more thoroughly. but should hatred be spit at me over that mistake?

Finally, she (somewhat) admits she made a mistake. Ok, now apologize...? For the possible mistake...?

[quote] i also planned to take the whole group on a field trip to Roots of Music, a free music school for underprivileged kids in New Orleans.

Read between the lines: underprivileged = black. ani wants you to know definitively that she is not racist. I'm sure some of her best friends are African American. ani's got mad props.

It's appropriate that the so called "righteous retreat" was canceled...it was anything but "righteous."

she should instead host a "navel-gazing retreat." They can check one another for lint.

D. Y. K. E.

D. R. A. M. A.

I'm curious. At what point is this land no longer toxic?

Some of what she says doesn't seem passive-aggressive, but rather her attempt to try to do that typical repeating-back type of dialogue with complaints, which is meant to show she has heard criticism and understands it. She's told Nottoway is unacceptable so she replies with "if nottoway is simply not an acceptable place for me to go and try to do my work in the eyes of many." It's very strange wording, but as someone who has been on Tumblr for quite a while, I recognize it from a mile away -- it's the language of someone trying to appease people who are angry about social issues.

A lot of the people are justified in their anger, but some have taken it too far, as always happens. Ani and that idiot Buddy Wakefield have gone too far, too. Everyone on both sides needs to simmer down and come back to this in a day or two.

[quote] Having a retreat at a place that 1) used to be a place where slaves were forced to live and work and 2) is currently owned by a right-wing, anti-gay politician is NOT the best place to have something "righteous" go down.

I've not clicked on the link. Who owns it?

I'm really not understanding the problem with it being a former slave-holding plantation. If anything, I love the idea that a constructive, supportive and unifying event was to be held there. What better way to exorcise it's history?

But what am I talking about. As if you could bring together any amount of "systers" without drama.

Ani has decided to relocate her next consciousness raising mission to Auschwitz Birkenau to channel their collective compassionate energy there.

Next stop: Robben Island

Her fans are as humorless and insufferable as her music.

She messed up with that statement. It was too much about HER. Her defense of her intentions, her dismay at having received angry emails, her dismay that so many people are so "bitter" (sic), etc.

Far wiser to just apologize and cancel.

That was my thought, too, r38.

But really: Ani should have known there's not a crunchy lesbian alive who would see it that way, and that is her fan base.

(And btw: sorry to break it to you all, but the money made from American slavery went all over the nation, all over the Western world really. If you wanted to hold a retreat on a 19th century property with absolutely no connection to the American system of slavery and its profits, it would be hard to find. The CURRENT system of American wealth has its roots in American slavery. Duh.)

A tempest in a Celestial Seasonings Teapot imho. "I'm more sensitive to the ancestral sisters' pain than you are!" "No, I'M more sensitive!" And so on.

[quote] If you wanted to hold a retreat on a 19th century property with absolutely no connection to the American system of slavery and its profits, it would be hard to find.

You're theoretically correct but the problem here was far more obvious. They chose a site that celebrates/whitewashes its slave plantation heritage unabashedly. It's in the resort's promo literature.

[quote]If anything, I love the idea that a constructive, supportive and unifying event was to be held there.

Of course you do! That is a very white-progressive idea to love. Progressive white woman can come to slave plantation and unify us, can heal racism! Kum ba yah.

[quote]They chose a site that celebrates/whitewashes its slave plantation heritage unabashedly. It's in the resort's promo literature.

I'd have to see that. If you're correct, that's revolting. But I'm guessing we have a different definition of "celebrating/whitewashing."

A cursory glimpse at the website didn't really reveal anything along those lines to me. If anything is being celebrated it's the architecture and natural beauty of the setting. Slavery is unequivocally awful but really: I pick my battles. This isn't really one for me, that's all.

[quote]That is a very white-progressive idea to love

This is an extremely racist sentiment. If there are white ideas then you implicitly admit the converse: there are black ideas. PEOPLE have ideas, imho, not skin colors. Thx.

ani would understand the issue if instead of being held at a former slave plantation it were held at a bar known to have had gang rapes.

No woman would want to be in THAT environment.

No American should want to be in the one ani provided, either...black or white. It's understandable for an African American to have a visceral reaction to that setting.

Again, I find it interesting that she made a career of calling out people, but yet she cannot handle the same. Hypocrite.

[quote]That is a very white-progressive idea to love. Progressive white woman can come to slave plantation and unify us, can heal racism!

I'm sure the systers would insist I don't have a right to an opinion on this, since I'm not white, black, or a woman. But I just think everyone involved needs to get over themselves.

[quote]I'm sure the systers

Actually, r38 etc, it's my guess that most of the angry, knee-jerk response actually came from 'progressive' white women.

r38, perhaps you should host a party on a certain ranch in Laramie, WY.

ah, I get it...you're misogynist:

[quote] As if you could bring together any amount of "systers" without drama.

Riiight. ok, nevermind, 38...sorry I engaged with you. Do carry on.

I'm surprised Absolut Vodka hasn't already sponsored Fenced: The 2014 Pride White Party in Laramie!

Are Mt. Vernon and Monticello off limits, too?

It's not a party, it's an artists' retreat.

And I actually think the idea of holding a creative retreat there in Laramie is lovely, especially if it took on as one of its themes memorializing and honoring the victim. If I heard of such an event, I would be unlikely to voice objection.

But this was not about memorializing anything.

If Donald Trump hosted an event at the site of Matthew Shepard's murder, because it was nearby and convenient so he could sleep in his own bed at night, would you have no objection?

Really?

At all?

[small]What so ever?[/small]

the small tag worked in DL before AJAX

The US Capitol was built using slave labor. And yet Aretha Franklin had no issue singing there.

Uh. a tacky millionaire is not an artist. And a Trump event, my dear, is not an artists' retreat.

Nice try, tho!

I'm shocked Ani DiFranco has "a camp" to respond to people.

And it's an interesting side note that's worth contemplating: Trump HAS actually held events at plantations/places with plantation in the name. I've never heard you or anyone else voice such noisy objection then.

As ever, the PC syster brigade almost always attacks their own. They seldom genuinely target the powerful who are deaf to their concerns. They attack those who they know are most sensitive to it, who will be hurt, who will cave.

Sad. Just sad.

Some people like to have Ideas quietly by themselves at home or at work. Not me. I like to have my Ideas on official Ideas Vacations and performance seminars, preferably in an enormous old building with a wraparound veranda. When I found out where the seminar was going to be held, I thought, “Whoa,” and then I stopped thinking about it and went back to teaching seashells about self-determination and some basic chord progressions.

It’s not like I hadn’t given any thought to how it would feel to spend four days writing songs with my Ideas Colleagues on an infamous slavery site. We were going to bring really good vibes with us. Vibes of compassion, and also transformation, which as everyone knows is how you heal a plantation.

But there will be no vibes now. I am taking my vibes and my ideas and my compassion and I am going home to my Tempurpedic mattress because of your negative and unfortunate energy.

Look, there’s a lot of slavery in the world. My shoes were made in China. They probably have slaves there. Does that mean I should be able to hold an Ideas Festival on a slave plantation? Yes. Yes, it does. Taxes are so messed up, too. We should be mad at taxes, not at me for trying to host an expensive feminist songwriting retreat on a massive plantation. GE is such a bad company. Don’t you agree? See how we’re already coming together? See how much more productive this is than your hurtful, divisive criticism of my actions? Let’s all send our vibes to GE. They’re the real villains here.

I was going to take a lot of kids — poor kids (SO poor, you can’t even imagine how poor) — on a field trip to watch us play music. They were going to get inspired, and realize that if they put down a weapon, they can pick up a guitar, and they were going to change the world, all because of my four-day Ideas Camp for Ladies. But that’s never going to happen now, because of your awful, negative, critical energy that didn’t like my first idea. Now they’re all going to give up in despair and become land pirates. I’m not going to point fingers — that’s bad vibes — but it’s not my fault those kids aren’t going on that field trip.

Look, slavery was awful, I bet, but what are we supposed to do, not host multi-day feminist songwriting retreats and seminars on massive slave plantations that still boast about how well the slaves who lived there were treated? Some sort of plantation ban? Call me a dreamer, but I think we could have had a great time on that old plantation, fixing the horrors of the slavery legacy with our good vibes and our sweet guitar riffs and our unshaved legs. But some of us — I’m not going to name names, but you know who you are — didn’t even want to try.

It was horrible, the way you didn’t want to try, and the way you used your precious energy to tell me I’d done something wrong, instead of signing up for my Warbling for Peace seminar. I guess some of us don’t really care about peace or warbling as much as they say they do. I don’t want to overstep my bounds here, but I think the slaves would have wanted me to have my Words Campout at their old plantation. It’s what they would have done at the time, if they could.

If I can’t have my Ideas Jamboree on a giant Louisiana plantation, then I don’t want to have it at all, you monsters. You won’t have Ani DiFranco to kick around anymore.

If she wants to have a retreat in the South- it will be difficult to have a place where no slaves lived/worked..so the critics are out of line in a way.

HOWEVER, I visited Nottoway a couple of years ago. The introductory tour guide film was offensive. When highlighting the plantation owner's personal and business history- felt like it was written by some corporate idealogue. We learned that the owner started w/1 slave, then his business grew- then he got more slaves and more slaves and more slaves! The tone was: What a great owner he started w/a handful and then expanded to hundreds of slaves!

There was essentially no mention of the African American slave experience or point of view. Compared to other plantations in the area, Nottoway DID have a more "old-school" tone w/its historical film.

The plantation was recently bought by some right wing idealogue from Australia. The place did have an icky tone....Sooo, it was a bad move by Ani- but certainly not at the level of the criticism that she is getting...

R58,

When Ani was big, I went to a few of her concerts and was always agog at how many chicks had tattoos of Ani--her face, renderings of her press photos, or her "Righteous Babes" corporate logo--on them in prominent places.

I imagine several of these sorts of people work for her at a deeply discounted wage.

R60 = spot on

Brilliant post!

Pretty indicative that barely an eyebrow has been raised at the $1000+ price tag for Ani's attempt at "creating an enriching experience that celebrated a diversity of voice and spirit."

Is r60 a parody?

It would be really upsetting if it weren't. I spent my college years in love with her, and now I learn she's a moron..?

r57, for all we know ani defranco is a millionaire. She certainly qualifies as "tacky." The jury is still out on "artist."

For lily white ani defranco to casually host a retreat at a former slave plantation BECAUSE it was convenient to her is just as bad as, say, Trump hosting an event in Laramie because it was convenient for him.

Read ani's blog post. She wanted to be able to sleep in her own bed...which is in New Orleans. That is why she chose the plantation. Because it was convenient for her. Not because she wanted to memorialize or be inspired by slavery.

[quote]If she wants to have a retreat in the South- it will be difficult to have a place where no slaves lived/worked

There were places in the South that had few if any slaves. It was almost impossible to get Tennessee to vote to secede from the union. Much of the South was still pioneer-type territory in the 19th century. The huge, white-columned plantation house was a phenomenon clustered in wealthy, developed areas suited to that agriculturally. It was not evenly dispersed across the South. I know for most people when bashing the region that facts hardly matter. But really.

Moreover, the whole Ani thing is just stupid imho. It's like saying you can't have an artists' retreat in Manhattan because that land was taken from the Indians.

[quote]Read ani's blog post. She wanted to be able to sleep in her own bed...which is in New Orleans. That is why she chose the plantation. Because it was convenient for her. Not because she wanted to memorialize or be inspired by slavery.

Which is funny in itself, because New Orleans is about an hour away, not just down the road. The invite said:

"We will be shacked up at the historic Nottoway Plantation and Resort in White Castle, LA, for 3 days and 4 nights exchanging ideas, making music, and otherwise getting suntans in the light of each other’s company."

"We," apparently, not meaning Ani. She was going to be at her house.

Matthew Shepard is a poor analogy. His murder was an isolated event that took place in a single, remote location. Anything that takes place at that site is taking place because of the murder.

Slavery happened everywhere. I recently saw a map that showed Massachusetts as the only state that never had any slaves. The offense seems to come from the sense that a southern plantation is seen as a potent symbol of slavery. I can understand that.

Up thread I mentioned Monticello and Mt. Vernon. Do those places forever stand for slavery, or is slavery an aspect of their history that should never be forgotten? Are those places also forever tainted? Or are they acceptable because they are not symbols of slavery? The evil has been sufficiently diluted by other meanings?

Isn't she the one that got up at the concert and said God hates fags? I thought her shows got cancelled or something, saw it on Piers Morgan.

[quote]Read ani's blog post.

Meh, no thanks.

Pick your battles. I just can't get upset about where ani difranco prefers to get a night's sleep. I think the lesbians are being silly about this, bending over backwards to be 'more sensitive than thou.'

When I hear about something like this, a contentious or complicated issue, I try to think "What is the real harm? Is there any actual demonstrable harm currently being done to people? On the scale of real problems in the world, where does this fall?"

It's one of the reasons I couldn't get worked up about Duck Dynasty in any sense. It's a show--and an issue--for half-wits, a noisy distraction from real problems imho. But carry on.

[quote]It's like saying you can't have an artists' retreat in Manhattan because that land was taken from the Indians.

With all due respect, that is an insensitive, reactionary & dismissive response. My guess is that you are not African nor Native American (in the classic sense).

Your logic is flawed because you are comparing apples and oranges.

Someone posted that this retreat cost $1K to attend. Profiting on a slave plantation is fine for republicans and tea partiers, but progressives hold ourselves to higher standards. We aim to enlighten & be enlightened. ani's aim was for her pockets. She's exploiting her die hard fans. What choice does she really have...? If she doesn't want a real job?

R69, re: Massachusetts, whoever wrote up that map was misinformed. Massachusetts became a leader in abolitionism, but had its own earlier history of African slaves. More at link.

R70, no, that was Michelle Shocked

With all due respect, r72, it is an apt comparison, full of challenging parallels, which is why you refuse to contend with it in a genuine way and merely try to delimit what someone else can say based on their skin color. That might work at MichFest, but not here, hon.

And actually, I think someone who points out that an artists' retreat in Manhattan is offensive because that land was taken from the Indians has just as much a point as the people who are offended here do.

There's a point there but you need to Pick. Your. Battles. Wisely.

That's all.

[quote]Profiting on a slave plantation is fine

But its not a slave plantation and is has not been a slave plantation for almost 150 years.

[quote], but progressives hold ourselves to higher standards.

A big part of being a progressive is to not be fixated on the past but instead be focused on the future. Conservatives are the ones who are all hung up about things that happened long ago.

r75, I appreciate your sarcasm, but you are mistaken. America did not fight its bloodiest war in Manhattan. They did so in the heart of the South, and the reason why is because some patriots wanted to own Africans as slaves, whereas other citizens were repulsed by such a thought.

Roughly 2% of the population, an estimated 620,000 men, lost their lives fighting the American civil war. Taken as a percentage of today's population, the toll would have risen as high as 6 million souls.

Even after the civil war was won by the South, blacks were still routinely lynched. In February of last year, an unarmed black teen was legally killed while walking home from the store...so lynching of black Americans continues.

Today, the tea partiers are working very hard to block the African American vote.

I stand by my declaration that you are comparing apples and oranges. Racism toward blacks is tearing our country apart. It's holding us back in a very real and painful way.

R76 yeah there's a point where literally everything will offend someone. But the combo of this place being a former plantation and being owned by a Republican right-wing nut seems like it should have been obvious to Ani that this was a bad idea.

[quote] Profiting on a slave plantation...

It's not a slave plantation; it's a hotel.

[quote] She's exploiting her die hard fans.

Wasn't this an artists' retreat? Presumably, this was for her peers, not fans.

[quote] What choice does she really have...? If she doesn't want a real job?

Even in the 90s, she was a millionaire. It's possible that she pissed it all a way, but it doesn't seem likely to me.

She really doesn't deserve the Paul Dean treatment.

Uh, Native Americans didn't suffer violence, discrimination and mistreatment, r78?!? Really?!?!?!? WTF!?!?

God, what a dipshit.

from the get-go there was literally no way for Ani DiFranco to have come out of this well.....no matter what her apology was it would never have been accepted.

Ppl on both sides are idiots. This is why I am over activism.

[quote]A big part of being a progressive is to not be fixated on the past but instead be focused on the future. Conservatives are the ones who are all hung up about things that happened long ago.

In this case, our nation seems to be unable to move forward. And America's history re: slavery has been largely dismissed & ignored...rather than resolved. We have to heal first before we can let go of it.

Progressives care about equality & justice. Setting things right. We don't just sweep the past under the rug. We remember so we can learn how to make things better.

Everything was taken from the Indians. Manhattan has no particular importance in that respect. A better analogy would be the site of a massacre like Wounded Knee.

[quote]from the get-go there was literally no way for Ani DiFranco to have come out of this well.....no matter what her apology was it would never have been accepted.

Actually, there was. Put simply, she could have apologized. The word never appears in her statement.

[quote] But the combo of this place being a former plantation and being owned by a Republican right-wing nut seems like it should have been obvious to Ani that this was a bad idea.

A fun quiz--

Quick! Name the owners of the last five hotels you've stayed at.

So are we all expected no longer to stay at hotels owned by Republicans? Eat at restaurants owned by Republicans, etc?

Who has time for that?

To me it's not just the terrible history behind it (because that's everywhere) but that it's marketed based on that terrible history while white washing what happened there. And that it's owned by a Republican.

It'd be like having a progressive retreat at Rush Limbaugh's house.

[quote] Michfestian [/quote]

I can assure you this isn't a real word.

*searches dictionary*

"Michfestian": Mary! See [datalounge]

81, I never said in r78 that Native Americans did not suffer. White citizens pretty much successfully committed genocide. So there was no bloody civil war.

There are parallels, but the two experiences were different then, and are different now.

Trying to portray Manhattan in the same light as a former slave plantation is just silly.

R86 If the hotel I was staying at was a former slave plantation with rooms like "Overseers Suite" and tours of the former slave quarters and a historical film about the family that lived there and owned slaves, it's no longer just a hotel. And if I was a celebrity planning to host a retreat of liberal, progressive-minded people, on that kind of site, yes I'd hope one of my people would look into who currently owns it and why.

Why is everyone being deliberately obtuse and acting like this was a Marriott that happened to be located on ground where something tragic happened? The plantation's history is the focal point of staying there.

[quote]Why is everyone being deliberately obtuse and acting like this was a Marriott that happened to be located on ground where something tragic happened? The plantation's history is the focal point of staying there.

"Master bedroom? More like MASSA bedroom, amIrite?"

[quote] slavery has been largely dismissed & ignored...rather than resolved.

It hasn't been resolved? Really? How exactly do we resolve something that happened long before we were born and involved parties who are now long dead?

And it's dismissed and ignored? Strange, what was one of the biggest movies of the year? Something about being a slave, right? What was one of the biggest films last year? Something about a slave unchained sounds familiar. Or maybe it was that other one about the fellow with the beard and how he freed the slaves? What was one of the biggest television events in American history? If I remember, it had to do with the a man's slave heritage, his roots if you will.

[quote]Why is everyone being deliberately obtuse

Facts like you describe, R90, have not been the focus of the discussion. They should be. In light of what you describe, and what R61 reports, what might have been debatable is a pretty clear issue to me.

OH

Thanks R90. I glanced at the pics of the place, it YELLS "Plantation mansion". Not hard to think of the slave context, just from looking at it.

MY

GOD!

[quote]Manhattan has no particular importance in that respect.

Actually, for many, Manhattan is one of the most potent symbols of the taking of Indian land. The valuable island was famously 'purchased' for a chest of trinkets from Indians who had a very different conception of ownership and land, and the place is now the center of the Western world's power, private property, and wealth with nary a trace of a Native tribe or civilization for hundreds of miles around. It has a great deal of importance in that respect.

I think if someone pointed out these symbolic issues about an artists' retreat in Manhattan they would actually have a point. In fact, I was once at a Native American women's colloquium in Cambridge, Mass many years ago, and several participants DID bring up these points and it was quite eye-opening actually.

We're just not usually supposed to think about these things in that way. The South is just more commonly conceptualized in that way as a no-go place for the uber-senstive PC crowd. That's all.

R90,

Well, I suppose the most direct answer (speaking on my own behalf) is the practical, geographic one. The woman lives in New Orleans--in fact, her home was probably owned by a slave owner. She cannot possibly book a weekend anywhere in the vicinity that doesn't have overtones of the South's slave history.

Yes, I guess she could have trucked up to Tennessee, presumably putting herself and whoever signed up for the weekend, at great and possibly prohibitive inconvenience. Maybe that's what some people should have done--to me, it seems crazy to re-arrange your life in such a way that the entire state you live in is "off limits" to you and only you, lest you be censured.

[quote] "Overseers Suite" and tours of the former slave quarters and a historical film about the family that lived there and owned slaves...

Do you the controversy in the '90s over the issue of the "n" word in certain standards of American literature, like Twain and Faulkner? There were those that thought it should be deleted and never spoken of. On the other side of the issue were some prominent African-Americans--I keep thinking one was Whoopi Goldberg--who thought the word should be discussed because it was a part of history and if you confronted it and talked about it, you took away its power.

I tend to side with the latter group--as a student of history, I think horrors should be talked about and discussed, and not forgotten. Honestly, if I were in Ani's shoes, I would have gone to Nottoway and then made a big ol' stink in the press about how they present history there.

A conference at the Algonquin Hotel?!?

Nevah!

that was--"Do you remember.."

It's a "live by the sword, die by the sword" situation. She has cultivated an extremely PC audience and she fucked up with them, should've just made a sincere apology and cut her losses. Instead she sounded like a petulant 5 yr old announcing that she was taking her ball and going home.

R102, that's true, too.

[quote]It's a "live by the sword, die by the sword" situation. She has cultivated an extremely PC audience and she fucked up with them, should've just made a sincere apology and cut her losses. Instead she sounded like a petulant 5 yr old announcing that she was taking her ball and going home.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.

I thought the cherry on that sundae was her whole thing about how she had intended to take participants to see poor black children make music in New Orleans, but because of all the fuss that was now off. (Translation: See what you people DID?)

[quote]i also planned to take the whole group on a field trip to Roots of Music, a free music school for underprivileged kids in New Orleans. Roots of Music is located at the Cabildo, a building in the French Quarter which was the seat of the former slaveholder government where all the laws of the slave state were first written and enacted. i believe that the existence of Roots of Music in this building is transcendent and it would have been a very inspiring place to visit. i also believe that Roots could have gained a few new supporters. in short, i think many positive and life-affirming connections would have been made at this conference, in its all of its complexity of design.

[quote] The valuable island was famously 'purchased' for a chest of trinkets from Indians

The idea that the Dutch traded Manhattan for $24 worth of trinkets is nothing more than a myth and folklore, like Washington cutting down a cherry tree.

[quote]the place is now the center of the Western world's power, private property, and wealth with nary a trace of a Native tribe or civilization for hundreds of miles around.

National Museum of the American Indian. 1 Bowling Green, NY, NY

American Indian Ritual Object. 463 E 57th St NY, NY

American Indian Community House. 134 West 29th Street. NY, NY

And that's just the top three I found in Manhattan. There's even more on Long Island and New Jersey.

[quote]The idea that the Dutch traded Manhattan for $24 worth of trinkets is nothing more than a myth and folklore, like Washington cutting down a cherry tree.

Demonstrably untrue.

"On May 24, 1626, Minuit was credited with purchasing the island of Manhattan from the native americans in exchange for traded goods valued at 60 guilders."

[quote] And that's just the top three I found in Manhattan.

Uh. Wtf? I never said Manhattan didn't have any cultural institutions devoted to Native American history. The South has plenty of institutions devoted to African-American culture and history. You would mever imagine the Southern institutions as some sort of exculpation of the region from its past the way you do in Manhattan.

Retarded!

[quote]with nary a trace of a Native tribe or civilization for hundreds of miles around.

ANd holy crap, when I said this, I meant Native American civilizations CURRENTLY living there, not the appropriated items of the slaughtered and displaced tribes displayed in cases for denizens of the Upper East Side to marvel at the workmanship.

Yes, THOSE traces are still there.

***eyeroll***

R106 When you resort to calling people names, then its a good indication you have nothing left. Read this and learn something.

R107 Shinnecock is a little more than 80 miles from Manhattan, Poospatuck is less than 60 miles away. Not the hundreds of miles you claim.

Roll your eyes all you like, but so far the record shows that not only do you feel the need to call names, but you also feel the need to lie in order to make your point.

Uh, when Southerners do that sort of "It wasn't as bad as all that" type of thing, you have a conniption, r108.

So it wasn't $24. It was $900. What is that, 20 cents an acre??!?! Gosh, the red man should sure shut up about being robbed of their lands, and greet the wolves of wall street with open arms, right?

And in SPITE of the name-calling, my post was obviously a total takedown of your extremely weak points. YOUR concentration on that aspect is the real indication you have nothing left.

How generous of NYers to have reservations so close to Manhattan, r110. The Native Americans are so lucky to have benefitted by the white man's kindness and generosity.

Issue over!

[quote]Shinnecock is a little more than 80 miles from Manhattan, Poospatuck is less than 60 miles away. Not the hundreds of miles you claim.

Tuckahoe is just down the expressway, and that's where you'll find Mrs. Naugatuck!

Sorrywatch.com took ani's (non) apology to the woodshed.

R110 What weak points? I provide a link that explains how the whole box of trinkets story is false. I point out that despite what you claim, Native American culture and civilizations are not hundreds of miles away from New York as you claim. And when faced with these facts, whats your reaction? To call names, move the goal posts and then declare the issue is over, like you're a child taking your ball and going home because you are getting your ass kicked. If you dont think that is the impression you have made then you are fooling no one but yourself.

She writes in bullshit, like her songs. I can't even read it. What was this "retreat" about? Maybe she can get together with that "Ancorage" person.

[quote]I provide a link that explains how the whole box of trinkets story is false.

You did no such thing. You provided a link claiming that the goods were valued at $900, not $24 as is commonly believed. $900 is still very much a "box of trinkets" when we are talking about the value of the island of Manhattan.

Again, you sound like the Southerner who is all "Not all the slaves were treated badly!" Being beaten on a plantation is $24. Being treated well is $900. Get it?

And rounding Native Americans up and placing them on reservations and placing their artifacts in museums for the wealthy is hardly exculpatory of the sins we're talking about. It is PART of them.

Okay, for rich slave owners, they sure had an embarrassing cheap (and creepy) family portrait.

And, wow, I never thought I'd be arguing with a member of the PC brigade who insists that the white man's treatment of Native Americans was simply not all that bad. After all, they got nifty reservations right near New York and fancy museums right in Manhattan!

^^Not to mention goods worth almost $900!

Who would want to hold anything at a big plantation house?

R116 So now the box of trinkets is just a metaphor? Is that what you are going with? Keep moving the goal posts, no one will ever notice. And it appears you are overlooking the fact that aside from one letter, there is NO RECORD of this sale ever taking place.

These are your exact words: nary a trace of a Native tribe or civilization for hundreds of miles around.

When it is pointed out that is not really true, you once more change the definition of what you say and try to claim that it really doesn't count. I guess all those native Americans in Suffolk county who dont live on the reservation (many do) would be please to know that they really dont count.

As far as your claim that the artifacts are in a museum for the wealthy is also a lie. The museum in question has free admission.

You can try to twist what I am saying all you like. You can call me names, insult til the cows come home. All I have done is present facts that are counter to the claims you have made. Again, you're not fooling anyone.

[quote]After all, they got nifty reservations right near New York and fancy museums right in Manhattan!

Don't forget the casinos!

8,783 words rationalizing. More words = more guilt. No shame, luckily, wymen. Just 'I got caught', not 'I shouldn't have'.

[quote]that aside from one letter, there is NO RECORD of this sale ever taking place.

Again, hardly exculpatory. Manhattan used to belong to Native Americans. Now it is the crowning jewel in the realms of the Western world's financial wealth, economic power and private property.

I'm not really sure how to get it through your head that the details of the transaction hardly matter. The sin is still there. Saying it was $900, not $24, is like saying "They fed the slaves well."

If you want to fuss about the minutiae of exactly how far the cultural tragedies known as reservations are from Manhattan, exactly how much the trinkets were worth (or whether there were trinkets at all: ie perhaps the land was out and out STOLEN in the most bold-faced sense), and how this all exculpates Europeans from the transgressions in their conquest of the continent, well, fine. Do your shrill thing.

The front line of the PC brigade often has to do some very strange backbends to defend its idiotic, received positions. This I understand.

Manhattan as a symbol of the Native American genocide? Pretty weak. The entire continent was taken from them.

With Manhattan as one of the earliest land grabs, r125. And as has already been stated, its taking is especially resonant because the property is now the most valuable in the world, and it was 'purchased' for a ludicrous fraction of its value from people who had little understanding of the nature of Western power and property rights.

I am hardly alone in this take on things.

Many people who claim their sensibilities are far too delicate to visit the South have absolutely no trouble cackling the night away in expensive hotspots in the modern capitalist canyons of New York, where private property and capital changes hands daily making millions for the privileged white few, where the land was once inhabited by Native Americans.

Those who point out this means something are quite correct.

Ani Difranco was never and has never claimed to be a lesbian.

She's outspokenly bisexual, always has been.

[quote]She's outspokenly bisexual, always has been.

Why??

Vans White is bi, but apparent has no desire to be a spokesperson for bisexuality.

Why is ani?

What's so brave about sucking dick *and* vaginas? Isn't that exactly what straight men want from a fuck?

"Bi" people are just straight. (With the exception of Vanna White, a true bisexual).

So...who are ani's fans? Wannabe lesbians? Frustrated bisexuals...? The ones on that blog look like crunchy baby dykes. Why are they into her in 2014?? I don't get it. She was never more than fringe.

[quote]. Why are they into her in 2014?? I don't get it.

I don't get it either. I guess they can't listen to Katy Perry. Isn't there some new crunchy person out there? I would assume there are lots of indie crunchies.

I've never been drawn to the socio-political ranting liberal identity of lesbianism. This thread is a hoot.

Ani's early work was really meaningful to me, and many of my bi- and lesbian college friends, in the early to mid-90's. Though again--I'd say it was more the songs about relationships and realizing one's own worth, rather than the self-righteous social issues rant songs, that she got more into in later years. ...And it was irksome-- that despite her apparent brilliance and bad-ass feminist bravado, she yet seemed to need to keep herself in the hetero- mold.

I really thought she was more evolved, and would have moved on from what seems to me to be a perspective that one passes through in one's college years ...Ranting against "the man" has nothing to do with what really makes the world evolve.

If you are still singing about themes that 20-year-old liberal, intellectual college women are concerned with, that that is the type and level of backlash and criticism you should expect. Sigh.

The White house, in fact the entire Capitol, was built by slaves. What should we do about that?

Ani is NOTHING like Katy Perry. Give me a fucking break with that shit.

Ani helped define the alternative movement and paved the way for Riot Grrls and the Lilith Fair genre of the 90's. Give the woman her fucking props. She is GENUSI.

It's a shame Michfest is so low on the radar, and we don't get real lesbian portrayals in the media. Glee should have done an entire episode based on her songs.

She will most likely be inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in the next ten years. She will have the last laugh.

How about taking a class in black history, r133?

Ok?

Because we heard you the first thousand times. Nobody is taking your bait. This isn't a tea party.

I didn't say she was like Katy Perry! I assume these crunchy kids of today CANNOT listen to Katy Perry or Rhianna, so they listen to Ani DiFranco.

Well, R135, since this is the first I've posted in this thread... Like I said... a HOOT!

Okay, which one of you mischievous Mary's on this site started this thread? You are just BAAAD!

Thank you, though. ...You've allowed me to observe a sub-section of the DL readership I had previously been unaware of.

Ah well... "Celebrate Diversity," and all that... Heh.

Not hosting the event on a property owned by a right wing loon is reasonable. No one would want even a portion of their money going to help someone like that. But not hosting it there because of something that happened almost 150 years ago seems sort of senseless. What does it accomplish? Its not like cancelling the event will suddenly make make the slaves who suffered there feel better, for the same reason it certainly is not going to send a message to the slave owner. If one was about to buy a house, would they back out of the deal because they learned 40 or 50 years ago, the guy who lived there beat his wife?

Is the same true for Auschwitz, r139?

Why or why not?

R140 No, because there still are Auschwitz survivors alive.

are those rings on her fingers, or does she have a tattoo on her fingers?

I've always hated her "style." The photo of her sitting on the floor is the best I have seen of her.

Well, at first she said she didn't know the location.

I think it is still too symbolic of slavery (to host a progressive event or any kind of happy event), even if it was over a hundred years ago.

I think it is creepy that people go there for weddings and New Year's Eve celebrations (dinner and dancing) too.

D. Y. K. E.

D. R. A. M. A.

[quote]Ani helped define the alternative movement and paved the way for Riot Grrls and the Lilith Fair genre of the 90's. Give the woman her fucking props. She is GENUSI.

Cak. Graxy. Jandra. Lens Dunham.

GENUSI.

I was told once I was a child GENUSI.

Yup, R147.

You are a genusi.

Do NOT set your tent up on tainted land.

Do NOT do it.

I am telling you NOW....

This drama has now made it to Yahoo! news!

Unreal.

A lot of houses in my New England hometown date from the 18th century, and certainly many of the families who built them owned slaves—at least a few slaves. Should we think there's something creepy and distasteful about living in one of those houses, or visiting someone who lives in one, or having a reception in one of the larger ones that are publicly owned and rent out space? Or is it a different matter when it's up North?

R152, do they market the home to you as a historical slave house? Do they make a video glorifying the good old days when they treated the slaves wonderfully?

"a babydyke on my dorm floor who would play Ani DiFranco literally every day at high volume"

I was asserting my boundaries! I will not be imprisoned in a penistentiary!!

There is not a castle/manor house in England that is not "marketed" based on its feudal past of serfdom. Even here in the US, we have those ridiculous Renaissance fairs--which are really medieval fairs--that celebrate a harsh and cruel system wherein rich overloads soaked off the poor.

This Ani dust-up is nothing if not an illustration of how neurotic we have become about perceived racism.

"Howdy shitstorm e'erybody! As a Righteous Babe who was naively excited to participate in this event I'm not necessarily able to make a comprehensive public statement today due to spinning full plates and a cruddy case of the crud. Until I or Ani or Toshi or anyone else are able to respond from our personal perspectives on the blunder, I think it'd be most productive for y'all to continue assuming the absolute worst, don't you dare ask thoughtful questions as to how this really went down, venomously insult Ani and her years of efforts, then write as many demolishing statements and articles as possible in an effort to eternally shackle her to this oversight. If forgiveness is off the menu, consider compassion and the possibility of extenuating circumstances before discounting 20+ years of sincere activism. I think it's pretty safe to say all the artists involved are amply bummed about the situation, and that your hateful approaches/vitriolic statements/narrow understanding of how things transpired have safely arrived to our inboxes. I happen to know that given all the facts I/we were otherwise not privy to, Ani is cancelling. You can all go feed on someone else's mistakes very soon."

So defensive and victimized yet so faux-casual. Internet writing at its worst.

These types of dykes keep us normal ones in the closet

[quote]do they market the home to you as a historical slave house? Do they make a video glorifying the good old days when they treated the slaves wonderfully?

Uh, if a historic plantation marketed itself without any mention of slavery, you'd be shrieking that it was a whitewashing, eliding history etc.

And certainly if such a video exists, it's offensive. I have my doubts that they really show a video "glorifying the good old days when they treated the slaves wonderfully." I'd have to see it for myself to judge. Their website seems to have a forthright consideration of the slaves that worked there and what the historical evidence tells us about their lives.

Meanwhile, one has to also entertain the possibility you're like a lot of white progressives who love to play the 'more sensitive than thou' role, especially in situations which take zero courage or insight to criticize (somehow I picture you visiting this place with pursed lips and a lorgnette).

It's like... "Wow. You think slavery is wrong? What a brave, unusual stance!"

Tiresome.

R147, we have a "Vans White" upthread too.

And r153, r152 is correct.

No one at the center of this hubbub has mentioned the marketing or the video as the crucial aspect of their objection. What is the real difference between an event planned in a New England slave-built house or the White House or this one?

It's something else, something symbolic and cultural, and taking a moment to genuinely consider why one choice results in an uproar and the other would result in no one batting an eye is worth considering, especially if we wish to be genuinely consistent and level-headed in our approach to complicated issues.

Ani's defensive statement includes many mentions of how she was going to lead dialogues about the plantation setting during the retreat. And that the plantation situation would have actually been a great place for healing and reflection.

HOWEVER...

I find it very interesting that no where in her promotional materials for the retreat does she mention any of this.

I find her "well...I WAS going to address that..." very disingenuous. If not a flat-out lie.

[quote] Ani Difranco was never and has never claimed to be a lesbian. She's outspokenly bisexual, always has been.

I'm not sure that this is an accurate reflection of the situation. My recollection is that she was mysteriously quiet about her sexual orientation, then made it clear that she was in a relationship with a woman, then married a man.

R162,

Have we forgotten "In and Out"?

[quote]I find her "well...I WAS going to address that..." very disingenuous. If not a flat-out lie.

Maybe, r161. But I actually think that it would be uncharacteristic for Ani and her ilk to visit a plantation and NOT yammer on for hours and hours about what it means. Would that crowd REALLY miss an opportunity to get all touchy-feely political about the painful histories of the collective sisterhood etc? Sorry, but the thought of them NOT doing a thorough analysis, talk-session, dialogue and exchange every five minutes is pretty laughable.

There's plenty to criticize in her actions and words, but when Ani and her crowd says they were planning to 'dialogue' about something, at this point, it's pretty safe to take them at their word.

r164 - had she addressed that in her promotional material, this whole kerfuffle wouldn't be going on because she would have a) publicly recognized the significance of the setting and the effects it would have on the participants and b) done so with sensitivity.

It's her cavalier, turning a blind eye to the plantation setting is what has people up in arms.

Why even mention that she was going to address those things? It's advertising a retreat on a former slave plantation with NO mention of slavery or the setting that has people upset.

Her later sayings of "I WAS going to be sensitive and address everything you are talking about..." that is super disingenuous. If she was so sensitive and aware about those issues before hand, why not be upfront about it?

If I went to a writers retreat and later found out that it was on the site of an Indian massacre and large portions of the retreat were dedicated to discussing this trauma, I wouldn't go! That's not my bag. And frankly I'd feel duped. That's something that organizers should mention in the promotional literature. Not ambushing participants with it once they're there.

Croc fight!

[quote] It's her cavalier, turning a blind eye to the plantation setting is what has people up in arms.

Very, very few people.

Read most of the comments here, or the nearly 5000 comments on the yahoo story, and you'll see 99.9% of people think the story is ridiculous attention-whoring on the part of a teeny-tiny minority.

What's your point? I'm talking about her statement to thst vocal minority.

From r151 's link:

[quote]That "collective outrage" DiFranco was referring to included a slew comments on the event's now-deleted Facebook page, or a change.org petition calling for her to cancel the event.

[quote]The petition, launched by Sara Starr of Chapell Hill, North Carolina, says that "holding a workshop even on a plantation in a town founded by racists ... is insulting to black feminists and black queer individuals and is a very blatant display of racism on [DiFranco's] part."

[quote]By Sunday, more than 2,500 people had signed the petition asking DiFranco to cancel the event, with many leaving comments, such as Blaise Parker of Athens, Georgia. "Ani, this is some bulls--t," Parker wrote. "I have admired you and supported you financially for almost half my life. I am seriously disappointed."

As pointed out up thread, ani set her career on an ultra PC foundation. She cultivated a perhaps well intentioned but over zealous following. Turnabout is fair play.

The yahoo article also notes that she had once refused to do Letterman because they didn't want her to perform "Subdivision." I'm sure she assumed it was censored due to content, but my guess is that the song probably just...sucked.

My point is that the vox popoli indicates that the "vocal minority" is not in the right.

We can argue it philosophically, but comments like "people are up in arms" need to be qualified.

R167, yahoo is full of trolls. Anyone who uses the term "race baiter," which is standard to the 99.9% of the yahoo posts to which you reference, is a full on freak.

The issue here isn't whether or not trolls think ani defranco should host a "Righteous Babes" retreat on a former slave plantation. The real issue is how a progressive feminist could be so tone deaf to the fans that love her so much they're willing to shell out $1k just to be in her presence...a musician who based her music, performances and career on being More PC Than Thou.

is that true, she was charging $1k?

Yes, 172...per the link at r151:

[quote]That retreat had offered fans a chance to "develop one's singular creativity" through various workshops with DiFranco for four days at a price tag of more than $1,000.

[quote]comments like "people are up in arms" need to be qualified.

I think it's a leap to assume that I meant ALL people and an even bigger leap to assume I think they are correct.

My personal opinion is that this is a case of a fringe PC crowd policing itself and getting very self righteous in both the calling out and responding to being called out and I am loving observing this section of the human zoo. Pass the popcorn!

That said, I find Ani's long LONG rebuttal to her detractors to be extremely tone deaf (as mentioned above) and defensive and disingenuous. For someone who promotes themselves as ultra compassionate and genuine !

R171,

Now we're changing our ground here. The original issue, apparently to her fans (or ex-fans), was the plantation thing.

So now your beef is that she should have done anything to propitiate her fans?

What a terrible prerogative for an artist to have--being a professional doormat. She really doesn't "owe" her fans anything; no public person does. Her public bought her albums because they liked her music, and that's really all that they have a right to. Vetoing her projects and vilifying her don't come with the price of the CD. I was sort of amused by one of the women quoted in the Yahoo article that said something like, "I have been financially supporting Ani for years," as if she were making alimony payments.

I'm saying her statement was disingenuous. You keep taking things to the extreme and adding all sorts of commentary that's not there. Which is also enjoyable to watch.

[quote] I think it's a leap to assume that I meant ALL people...

But you did mean a number of people significant enough not to ignore.

And her rebuttal did, of course, make her look like a passive-aggressive coward in retreat.

It's pronounced Ah-NEE too. How annoying.

I simply meant the people she was responding to / addressing in her public statement.

R176,

Whom are you addressing?

Ha, R175 is right -"I have been supporting her for years." Mental fans.

I think having anything at a plantation is kind of dumb. But all of the attack pile-on is a bit much. The fringe liberals likes to attack itself with holier than though attitudes. Aren't there bigger things to attack out there?

But $1000? Yuck that isn't cool. But all of the various new age "healing" etc retreats charge that, too and more. Probably where she or her organizers got the idea.

Pop music and healing retreats are too expensive to go to these days. I think people without money should listen to free classical music on the internet.

R175...what?

Ani's fans are the ones who are outraged. I'm not one of them. I'm not sure anyone here is.

The issue is between ani and her fans. They are all ultra PC which is why the fans are pissed. Because they are ultra PC, and their Ultra PC leader did something Ultra Anti PC.

I was addressing r180, et al. I think we probably agree on most points - just clearing up semantics I guess.

The Ultra PC's favorite game is the holier-than-thou analysis and attack all the time, 24/7. They are so obsessed with it, that some of them are doing it to their Ultra PC hero Ani right now.

The idea of hosting the retreat on a plantation is stupid and tone-deaf but what really bothers me are these stupid $1000+ (as another poster mentioned) "retreats" for white people in countries like Costa Rica so they can do yoga away from the stress of the upper-middle-class white world while being hosted and waited on by people who are essentially slaves in that country.

I'm just curious how Toshi Reagon -- a black lesbian who agreed to this -- is getting away without the Ani crowd pitching a fit over her participation.

[quote]The Ultra PC's favorite game is the holier-than-thou analysis and attack all the time, 24/7. They are so obsessed with it, that some of them are doing it to their Ultra PC hero Ani right now.

This! I don't understand why they don't go after obvious targets for their wrath, say, on the right wing. They'd rather sniff out someone within their own ranks who happens to put a foot wrong. It's so weird (but entertaining for the neutral).

I have to admit that I had long been an Ani DiFranco listener and had seen her 3x in Seattle during the '90s. I really loved that she backed the Occupy movement and was always so in-your-face liberal. However, her plans (albeit retracted) to have a retreat on a former slave plantation (and her sanctimonious, narcissistic response to the controversy around it) were uncondonable and horribly insensitive.

Tim Wise wrote a blogpost about that is thoughtful and poignant. See offsite link for his full article.

R185 - Costa Rica is actually a more progressive country than the U.S. in many ways: no military, universal healthcare, and sufficient funding for public education and other social programs. The quality of life is arguably better in many ways than even in the "upper-middle-class" circles of the faux-"hippie" limousine liberals who flock to yoga retreats there.

I will give you that the luxury yoga "retreat" centers there are hilariously obnoxious. One of my cousins works at one of those centers as a yoga instructor--love her to death; think the whole lifestyle and catering to the upper 10% crowd is obnoxious as hell. One of the center's emails advertised a four-day retreat at "only $1,250." Yeah, I and every other every-day American schmo can afford that...NOT...

Reading r188's link now.

I forgot I visited Dachau for my human rights class at U of Denmark more than 20 years ago. I forgot, because I didn't like being there. At all.

Ugh. I can't imagine attending a retreat there.

[quote] Would that crowd REALLY miss an opportunity to get all touchy-feely political about the painful histories of the collective sisterhood etc? Sorry, but the thought of them NOT doing a thorough analysis, talk-session, dialogue and exchange every five minutes is pretty laughable.

This is such a good point.

[quote] But $1000? Yuck that isn't cool. But all of the various new age "healing" etc retreats charge that, too and more. Probably where she or her organizers got the idea.

I also thought that this smacked of the sales office at the plantation putting together a package to keep themselves booked.

Yeah, I visited Auschwitz and other concentration camps when I was in my 20s. I was with a couple other Jewish people who'd lost relatives during the Holocaust and could not in any way, shape, or form imagine holding ANY kind of retreat there unless it was a memorial centered solely on the memory of the persecuted. Same would hold true IMO for Nottoway and other places tarnished with the persecution and genocide of African and Native American slaves.

Oh no, you didn't, Mr. Wise.

How many irrelevant analogies can one person shovel into a blog post?

Tim Wise's excellent post makes this entire exercise worth it. Thank you, r188.

R193, are you a fan of Ani's? Are you a feminist like her? Do you strive to eradicate racism in America?

This is liberal in-fighting. Why do you care? You're obviously not progressive.

R194,

Well, you seem to be smugly settled in your assumptions about me. Why even bother asking me questions?

Instead, I shall ask you a question: are you Danish or were you just doing study abroad?

You dismiss the musician, her fans and her critics in your posts r195. Are you here just to be dismissive?

So be it.

R196, fine. But are you Danish?

Ha ha, r197.

Which reminds me....Mary's Danish was a 90s band that had two truly righteous babes in it. Ani, it turns out, was just posing.

Thanks for the link, R188.

R193 Bitter Betty

What a weird aesthetic choice. That building just screams Old South == Republican. You'd think whoever picked it, even if he/she were ignorant of its history, would just see the mismatch between the building/grounds and Ani's core audience.

It would be like if Rush Limbaugh decided to hold a seminar at a vegan coop in Berkeley.

R199,

I prefer Mincing Molly or Sure-footed Sally, thank you.

Or Rush Limbaugh having Elton John sing at his wedding.

R201 Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

Hence the bitterness, 201...

R188, Tim Wise is the perfect example of the ultra PC hustler who gets hoist by his own petard, only to continue finger-wagging as if nothing happened. He had a Twitter meltdown a month or so ago regarding his continued disrespectful responses to criticism from POC. His behavior then was even more tone-deaf and arrogant than DiFranco's. He essentially said "You people should be happy I want to do this for you". It's hilarious that he's joining the pile-on. What a dick.

Anybody who uses "POC" unironically should be gassed.

GET

OFF

OF

DATALOUNGE

R206 Cry me a river, white boy

What term should be used, R206? Nonwhites? They use "POC" because, in their terms, "nonwhites" centers white people. I agree that "people of color" is awkward and a bit silly considering the very similar "colored people" is now taboo, but I'm at a loss as to what other term could be used.

Is Datalounge only for white men?

Won't someone please SHIT IN MY MOUTH???!!!????

205. I liked his blog post. Can we just leave it at that?

Womyn, womyn, womyn...can't live with them, can't _______________them.

I haven't seen this many humorless lesbians in one place since parochial school

As they said above, R210, live by the sword, die by the sword, die by the sword. Bwahahahahahahahahaha!

Seriously, I'm glad you enjoyed the article, but I've followed this oily guy's career for a few years. I really think he hurts the cause, not least by hogging the spotlight and being the media's go-to guy on race.

Happy new year, though.

R210,

The nature of a discussion board demands that we debate, hash out, even wrestle naked if we must.

If you just want to like him, I'm sure Wise has a "like" button on his website.

R209 Cry me a river, white boy.

I don't care about him personally 214. I just liked what he wrote about this topic.

Your post reminds me of the "authenticated" v. un-authenticated flame wars we used to have on DL. Someone authenticates, builds an online identity, and gets flamed in every thread because of an opinion they shared on a totally unrelated thread. Or they make a mistake and get hounded about it for years.

How about we all just stop pointing fingers? At anyone? Ever? Maybe that's the lesson here. Ani made a career of calling people out...she also did her share of condemnation. And now it's biting her in the ass. Maybe we should all focus on ourselves instead of other people.

I posted on some lefty Tumblr blogs for a while, and I can't tell you how happy I am that I never told anyone so much as my first name. When you have any involvement with the hyper-PC, it's only a matter of time before the circular firing squad comes for you.

Yes, that is it, R217. That is what those idiots spend their energy on. Meanwhile the rightwing is as united and powerful as ever.

^ What he (or she) said. Why is this a thing? Didn't Sinead O'Connor say "fight the real enemy"? Something like that.

Ani posted a briefer, more heartfelt and direct apology today on Facebook.

So. credit where due.

I give her props for that r220. It will still feed the ire of people who are so incensed by this though.

Lol.

Now the people who defended her are pissed that she caved in & apologized!

Glad she apologized; it was the right thing to do. Her husband needs to do the same...I guess when he gets over the cruddy crud.

And I'm still creeped out by her fans...paying $1k just to be in presence?

Read her FB comments. Her fans really really love her. I mean like...in a strange way. What the hell?

Stupid bitch. Lost all respect I had for her after her first non-apology.

So what now?

Is she going to go see if the My Lai site is available for her little shindig? Or maybe Auschwitz? Hey, Wounded Knee could use the business!

Fucking cow.

I don't understand r223. S/he is using misogynist hate speech to insult a feminist musician who apologized for racial insensitivity.

SO...r223. Should Ani not have canceled the even and apologized? Is that why you HATE her?

People make mistakes. Apologies free them of their mistakes. WHy don't you want her to be free?

R224, it's not hard to detect more than a whiff of bullshit emanating from the tox-sludge at R223.

Anyone who seriously knew and respected DiFranco as a songwriter/singer/musician over her past albums, would never write such knee jerk sexism in their tirade. They just wouldn't.

I am a fan from way back thru the '90s, and I was on board with those who hit back at her first "non apology" and I posted the parody of it at R60, which I still think was accurately barbed as well as funny. But she came around and expressed something more authentic and simple with this real apology. Time for progressives (real ones) to return to more fruitful ways to change the system and improve the world.

agreed 225. thanks for your post.

Calling someone a "stupid bitch" isn't "misogynist hate speech" for fuck's sake. It's like calling a man "stupid dick".

She was stupid for even considering a fucking plantation, and she's a bitch for not respecting non-whites. She's proven herself to be the typical entitled white feminist, a woman who doesn't hesitate to call out inequality when it comes to her own race and class, but conveniently forgets it all when it comes to women of other races and economic classes. So fuck her and all her defenders. You all are a bunch of myopic jerks.

Did these people spend as much time excoriating Kanye for playing for the Uzbekistan dictator, or Beyonce singing for the Gaddafis? Oh wait, I said something bad about Queen Bey, I've just been purged.

I like r12 pretends that the OP is actually a lesbian and a woman.

Answer: No, they do not, R228.

R228,

good point.

She’d probably go down as THE most obscure randomly referenced name in the history of people referenced on the Family Guy. It’s almost as if Seth lost a bet or something and was forced write her name in despite having 90% of their audience being all “who the fuck is Ani Difranco?” When I heard Quagmire drop her name I had to go back on YouTube cause I thought it was just my imagination but sure enough that was exactly who’s name he brought up. For days on end I was absolutely baffled that of all people on this planet her name was referenced. Of all the names to bring up. I would have even expected a Liz Phair “selling out” in 03 reference joke over of all people Ani Difranco. Oh well. Go figure.