Anastasia/Anna Anderson - How was she able to fool and snow so many people?

Because (1) royalist fools like you WANTED to believe and (2) a Polish factory worker has just as much inherited "right" to rule an empire as the Romanovs. She was undoubtedly their genetic superior, so why shouldn't she exploit the cringing worship of your ilk and make a claim on all the goodies being handed out to these worthless no-accounts because of their "birth"? Some people not only ask to be conned, they deserve it.

What about all the physical characteristics, birthmarks, scars and deformed foot that both women shared?

Even their handwriting samples were a 100% match!

The Russians have a tradition of phony "lost" royal pretenders to the throne showing up. Even when Catherine the Great's husband was killed, in front of credible witnesses by the Orlov bros whom everyone knew, "Peters" would pop up from time to time to try to usurp the throne.

Why were they believed? Money and power--the people who supported them assumed that if they succeeded in getting the throne, they would become the ruling faction. From the years after the Russian revolution, there was a strong group of Russian emigres, ex-aristocrats, who thought they could kick the commies out if only they had a believable figurehead and enough support. Anna Anderson was probably coached by these people to "remember" all sorts of things, and the only people who could corroborate her story had a vested interest.

Though the Amy Irving movie was one of my favorites when I was a child, it's sort of obvious (as an adult) that it was a fairy tale. I think Anna Anderson was a fraudster who thought she could have a career as an ex-princess, the way other fraudsters did in the 1920s. Plsu, because youtube and video were not around then, she only had to convince the few people she interacted with that she was a non-Russian speaking Russian. (Most slavs can more or less understand other slavic languages.)

But what about all the physical evidence that supported the claim she was Anastasia?

Coincidence?

Yes, coincidence. People believe what they want to believe. So, apparently, do you. Let it the fuck go.

R6 handwriting experts said their handwriting was a 100% match.

"have such an air of royalty" - what, like arrogance? Crass stupidity? Appallingly bad manners? These are all things that many royals possess but are strangely available to mere mortals as well. Oh wait, royalty are 'mere mortals' too, they get born and eat and shit and fuck and die just like everyone else. They don't possess any characteristic that makes them special in any way, unless you count 'special' in the same way as 'shortbus'.

R6 is right, people who want to believe are the easiest to fool, it's human nature to only see what you want to see.

Wasn't the DNA sample given by the Duke of Edinburgh? Perhaps it wasn't his DNA. There are still competing branches of the Romanovs claiming that they are the more legitimate heirs. It would complicate matters even more if Anna Anderson's DNA was a match to Prince Phillip.

Could it be possible she was Anastasia but not a DNA match? ie for whatever reason one or both of her parents were not the tsar or his wife even though they raised her?

People of all classes mate outside marriage, with or without permission. I'm sure there would be a lot of surprising DNA mismatches in royal houses if everyone were tested.

I have never heard this story before...of to google:-)

People can have more than one set of DNA. Google chimeras.

[quote] But what about all the physical evidence that supported the claim she was Anastasia?

There's no physical evidence--you have hearsay by a group of non-credible people. And for the sake of that, you're willing to dismiss DNA evidence? The fact that she couldn't speak Russian? The fact that she didn't have a Russian accent in German?

[quote] Could it be possible she was Anastasia but not a DNA match? ie for whatever reason one or both of her parents were not the tsar or his wife even though they raised her?

This usually happens the other way around--byblows of the royals are raised by other people. And anyway, Alexandra would never have been allowed to have a child by another man and raise her as a royal. Or are you suggesting that she faked her pregnancy, with all the people she was surrounded by not noticing?

[quote] There's no physical evidence

The handwriting between the two was a 100% match.

Both women had bone tuberculosis, a history of foot disorders, and had had a birthmark removed from her right shoulder, plus distinctly matching ears between the two women... all of which matched the physical evidence that had earlier been taken as proof of Anderson being Anastasia.

No one here knows the validity of that DNA test. It could have been faked. When billions are involved, anything is possible.

Also, people here are confusing the impossible for the improbable. It is not impossible for Anna to be Anastasia, though it appears improbable. So as unlikely as it seems to many, the probability of Anna being the real thing is not zero.

Wasn't the comparison DNA donated by the Duke of Edinburgh? What if it wasn't his DNA? There are still competing branches of the Romanovs, each claiming they are the legitimate heirs. Perhaps, even today, Anna Anderson being proven to be Anastasia would be problematic for everyone involved.

Here's the ear test.

To me, it looks like the Anastasia didn't have the top flap that AA did.

Photo comparisons and handwriting comparisons.

[quote] Anna Anderson being proven to be Anastasia would be problematic for everyone involved.

But she died with no heirs.

Russian tradition, especially with Alexander I and his wife, the empress were strongly believed to live in Siberia. Minnie, Maria Feodorovna, Nikolay's mother, never met AA. Her daughter met, but said she wasn't Anastasia (who was her grand daughter).

"Anna Anderson" was a grandiose narcissist and a complete fraud. She could tell enormous lies without a trace of guilt and regret for her actions. Some people wanted to believe and others wanted to hitch their horse to the gravy train for fame and money. Some fell into her scam - like Gleb Botkin - and then could not extract themselves when they caught on to what she was up to. She was really Franciska Shankowska, a Polish factory worker. That was been completely and absolutely proven with any doubt.

r17 those ears look totally different. And she couldn't speak Russian?

I was on the fence, now I'm convinced she was an impostor.

She was mentally ill. Delusions of grandeur are sadly common among the mentally ill. I'm surprised this ever became a story. I suspect it had more to do with selling papers than anything.

Here's a whole letter by Anastasia when she was 10 years old--obviously the handwriting of an educated child. Compare it to the maladroit scribble of AA from the link above, and you'll see the total lack of resemblance.

What was on Anastasia's iPod?

^Counterfeit by Limp Bizkit

It is proven the bodies of the Imperial family, except two, were found in Yekaterineburg in 1991 and proven with dna tests in 1993. Aleksey's and one of the daughter's bodies were found in 2007 70 meters away from founding place of other bodies.

But even now there are people, who believe the bodies don't belong to the members of Imperial family.

It is well known that Anna Anderson's handwriting was matched with Anastasia's by Minna Becker, a respected graphologist who had verified Anne Frank's diaries. She gave favorable reviews to the match of Anastasia and Anna Anderson

Pierre Gilliard claimed that Anderson used the specimens of Anastasia's handwriting to practice copying her signature, and some nurses at the hospital claimed to have witnessed her practicing the forgery over and over.

Wasn't she a professional con artist who did time for fraud? I'm not going to look it up, but I seem to remember that she had "the gift" of conning people out of money and valuables using other personas and was prosecuted.

After jail, she realized that the horror of many sentimental royalists about the massacre of the czar's immediate family and rumors that at least one of the children had survived (baseless as it turned out) made Anastasia a perfect "persona". There were some mild physical similarities, which were lucky. She was able to practice Anastasia's handwriting until she could reproduce it, convincing especially to people who wanted to believe. And finally enough family info filtered out from surviving servants and associates that she was able to put together "memories", that again seemed most convincing to those who wanted to believe. (Con Artists always do best with those who are strongly motivated to buy into the con).

Again, no link, but I think that as more information became clear about the final months of the family (initially, details of their end were murky), she became less and less credible. In her final years she was clearly mad.

Credulous people can be convinced of pretty much anything, as long as they want to believe in a particular fantasy. Con artists continue to flourish.

Handwriting

It is well known that Anna Anderson's handwriting was matched with Anastasia's by Minna Becker, a respected graphologist who had verified Anne Frank's diaries. She gave favorable reviews to the match of Anastasia and Anna Anderson,

Pierre Gilliard claimed that Anderson used the specimens of Anastasia's handwriting to practice copying her signature, and some nurses at the hospital claimed to have witnessed her practicing the forgery over and over.

Anna Anderson Exposed

Busting the myth of the most infamous royal imposter

"I can't imagine how a poor Polish factory worker would be able to speak German and English, and understand Russian, or have such an air of royalty which all who met her agreed she was in possession of."

Then you're an elitist.

Watch Pygmalion.

Next!

[quote] I can't imagine how a poor Polish factory worker would be able to speak German and English, and understand Russian.

You don't understand this because you're American and probably monolingual.

There are people who believe in Bigfoot, and the Loch Ness Monster and the Jersey Devil. There are people who believe that Elvis Presley and Jim Morrison and Andy Kaufmann are still alive. And there are people who believe that Anna Anderson was Anastasia, despite irrefutable proof that she was not.

They want the fairytale.

[quote]Wasn't she a professional con artist who did time for fraud? I'm not going to look it up, but I seem to remember that she had "the gift" of conning people out of money and valuables using other personas and was prosecuted.

Sounds like an aristocrat to me. Plenty of real aristos deal in forged documents, fake artwork and other scams.

""I can't imagine how a poor Polish factory worker would be able to speak German and English, and understand Russian"

But it is easier to believe that in less than a decade a Russian would lose all ability to speak their native language?

она нет меня!

Here are pictures of the two women. Anastasia has very thin lips, Anna Anderson has very full lips. While there's a certain resemblance, they are definitely not the same person. Forget about experts doing ear analysis, just use your eyes!

Anna Anderson was covered with scars, which led some people to believe she was the princess who had been shot and bayonetted at Ekaterinaburg. But "Anna" was a Polish factory worker who'd suffered some horrible physical trauma, perhaps from then on it was easier to believe she was a princess than herself. Or maybe it was just a way out of the hellhole she'd come from, she certainly had a gift for fooling people, but she was also highly motivated to life a new, fake life.

As with everything that resonates within the popular imagination, a good part of it is that a lot of people wanted to believe someone survived and lived to tell the tale. So she succeeded because people wanted it to be true.

The prince who isn't really dead theme dates back centuries. See, for instance, Perkin Warbeck (Richard of Shrewsbury, Duke of York), and all the "lost Dauphin" claimants to be Louis XVII. It would be very strange if there wasn't a similar belief that the tsarevitz and or Grand Duchesses had survived. Ken Follett's Pillars of the Earth/World Without End novels work this as well.

Anna Anderson was far from the first pretender to a throne. Those who find it hard to believe that given her humble background she couldn't pull it off are making very unconvincing and quite elitist arguments. Not to mention the fact that Franziska Shanzkowska, though a factory worker, defended from minor Polish nobility.

Look no further than all the actors from poor beginnings who can be more convincingly regal than actual royals.

Years ago, I was introduced to a Florida woman who claimed to be a descendant of a secret, illegitimate royal. She obviously believed it, I don't think she was a con-artist.

She was crazy.

There were lots of claimants to the identities of the Romanovs. Some of them claimed to be poor little Alexei, who was unable to walk due to his hemophilia at the time of the royal family's assassination and seemingly near death. Another one claimed to be Maria. There were a lot of phonies; Anna Anderson was just the most clever one.

Anderson was obviously deranged. But those who wanted to believe she was Anastasia accepted her bizarre behavior, telling themselves the poor dear had every right to behave like a madwoman, considering all the terrible things that had been done to her. She got away with a lot using that excuse.

Looking at pictures of her in comparison to pictures of Anastasia it was obvious they are not the same person. But her supporters try to be tricky. I once saw a picture of the young Anastasia in comparison to a picture of an elderly Anderson. The picture of Anastasia shows her smiling with her mouth closed; her face is distorted by the tight smile. But in comparison to the photo of Anderson, wrinkled and toothless, her mouth approximating a smile, you could possibly tell yourself that Anderson looks like an older version of the young girl. But it's a stretch. However, those photos are in a book about the Royal family called "The File On The Czar" by Anthony Summers, a sleazy tabloid journalist. In his book he makes a case for Anderson being Anastasia; he also makes a case for all of the Romanov women escaping being NOT being assassinated, but being spirited away to live the rest of their lives in anonymity. His book is a load of unproven crap.

R33 wins.

Actually Anna Anderson did have a son. She and the young guard (I think that's the guy) who helped her escape, had a love affair and the boy was born in Romania. She had to leave him with his father's family, I think. She refers to him a few times, saying things like, "when my boy is with me I will dress him in sailor suits. Those are the best for boys." etc. The story is in the Kurth book. I don't know what happened to him. He could still have been alive in the late 20th century, and he could have descendents. In any case, it wasn't just A.A. who they worried about. It was the fact that she could tell other hidden facts about the whole "massacre." Never believe what the mainstream media tells you. Not now. Not then. Not ever. I think there are a few courageous researchers who keep pointing out things no one wants to hear like the trillion-to-one similarity of scars, deformities, personal knowledge, eye color (a unique shade of blue only seen on one other person -- Czar Nicolas). So no. It's no case closed. I don't believe the DNA tests for minute. Too many hands in the jar with too many reasons to want Anna Anderson's memory to be nothing but a "hoax."

The Duke of Edinburgh's grandmother was the sister to Empress Alexandra so I'm confident the DNA was an accurate match. How can anyone say there was a physical resemblence between the two women, they look nothing alike.

[quote]Too many hands in the jar with too many reasons to want Anna Anderson's memory to be nothing but a "hoax."

And what would those reasons be? How on earth would it impact anyone alive today if she were were revealed as Anastasia?

[quote] How on earth would it impact anyone alive today if she were were revealed as Anastasia?

I told you so?

Charlotte is an idiot.

Peter Kurth's book is a highly biased, one-sided account of the life of the bizarre Anna Anderson. She was truly deranged, but he takes everything she said as gospel truth.

The facts are these: not one thing, not one single thing about Anna Anderson's "story" of escaping the massacre that killed her family could be proven. Nothing. You had to take it on faith, which is what her supporters did. They took everything she said on faith.

But DNA does not lie. And the DNA PROVED, once and for all, that she was a fake.

Her supporters keep spouting conspiracy theories which are all absurd hooey. They would always claim that Anderson was kept from being recognized as the Grand Duchess because of millions of dollars in the Bank of England that the Czar had secreted away before his abdication and imprisonment. To keep her from getting her hands on all that money, which her evil detractors coveted, she was denounced as a fraud. Well, there IS no money. There never was. So that argument is pure bullshit.

In her later years a much younger, mentally disturbed professor named history professor and genealogist John Eacott Manahan married her. They lived in Charlottesville, VA., and were known as a couple of weirdos. He was wealthy, but they lived in squalor (she liked it that way; he always let her have her way about everything). She looked and acted like a bag lady. They were hoarders, hoarding both junk and animals. For some reason she called him "Hans." Neighbors would hear her screaming "Hans! Hans! Hans!" She was CRAZY.

Anna Anderson was a clever psycho who fooled a lot of people who wanted to be fooled.

[quote]There are people who believe in Bigfoot, and the Loch Ness Monster and the Jersey Devil. There are people who believe that Elvis Presley and Jim Morrison and Andy Kaufmann are still alive.

That's all baloney, but let's not forget that Dubya's buddy Ken Lay was never in that coffin. He's got an oceanfront McMansion in Punta del Este.

The handwriting was not a 100% match and was thrown out by the judge in court. Also, nurses in the hospital testified they saw her practicing her forgery. She only spoke German- not a word of English, Russian or french. The real Anastasia spoke the latter three languages. Not German. The ear test was later shown to be done incorrectly. Comparing the left ear to the right ear. AA had her teeth all pulled immediately before Anastasia's dentist came to take a mold. Even without teeth, he insisted their jaws were nothing alike. AA's own siblings claimed her instantly- then recanted their claims after realizing they would be responsible for her criminal fraud since she was legally insane. Most of Anastasia's family members denied AA bearing any resemblance to Anastasia. Ones who did accept AA as Anastasia were not people who spent regular amounts of time with her. One may also make the case that they were trying to get their hands on Romanov money that never actually existed. I'm confused how someone thinks the two have matching scars from a mole removal. Anastasia had a scar from a mole removal and AA had a scar from gouging herself in the right spot. DNA evidence didn't just prove she wasn't Anastasia. It proved she was the polish factory worker Francizka. She lost the court case as there was no actual evidence proving she was Anastasia and most of Anastasia's family members testified against her. Lastly- her memory wasn't detailed of things she couldn't possibly know. Details she "remembered" were made known to her by her supporters. The same supporters who finished sentences for her and blamed all her inconsistencies and wrong answers on memory loss.

Zbigniew Brzezinski was asked how a simple Polish peasant could fool millions of people for decades and he replied "You obviously don't understand Polish peasants!"

It's crazy that anyone believed that nut Anna Anderson. If you look at photos of Anderson (as a young woman) compared to Anastasia, they looked nothing alike.

R51 One of her aunts, I think she was Anastasia's godmother, met AA and told she liked her, but she wasn't Anastasia. Minnie, Anastasia's grand mother, never wanted to meet AA. Those who new the family, didn't buy the story.

How did r11 not know of this story?

[quote]I can't imagine how a poor Polish factory worker would be able to speak German and English, and understand Russian, or have such an air of royalty which all who met her agreed she was in possession of.

She was born in a Polish region of the then German empire (today part of Poland) and lived and worked in Berlin. Other regions of Poland had also been under Russian rule for decades and, as Slavic languages, Polish and Russian are mutually intelligible. Note, however, that Anderson did not speak Russian, just comprehended it. That's normal for Slav speakers. English she could have picked up anywhere, especially since she lived in the US.

There are books by different people in different parts of the world who claim that Alexei escaped and was their father.

I loved that mini-series starring Amy Irving as Anna. The cast was awesome - hunky Jan Niklas (who for some reason got a Golden Globe for that role), Susan Lucci, Rex Harrison, Claire Bloom, Omar Sharif, young Christian Bale and of course the oldest DL fave - Miss Olivia de Havilland in her penultimate role.

I recall seeing some documentary about this years ago. It seemed the people who most wanted to believe her were themselves posers and strivers. One couple in particular, rather old and crusty, were absolutely convinced she was the real deal and flat out rejected the DNA evidence. These two were pathetic. They had some very very minor royal connection but put on airs and acted like they were hot shit (which is pretty much SOP for anyone who is fixated on royalty).

There was a well-known Hollywood restaurateur, popular in the 40s and 50s, who was called Prince Mike Romanoff. Prince Michael Dimitri Alexandrovich Obolensky-Romanoff was the full name he used. He was born Hershel Geguzin in Lithuania.

R58, Mike Romanoff was fairly open about being a fake, at least after he hit the big time as with the restaurant.

According to David Niven, he'd occasionally joke about how difficult it was to keep up the Romanov façade, not that he ever admitted his true origins.

WTF are R59 & R60 talking about?

Romanov family knew all along who Anna Anderson was; a mentally unstable Polish factory worker.

Even in the early part of the last century if one had the money to hire the right person to make enquiries (or time to do them yourself), things could be found out.

Previous poster is correct in that "Anna Anderson's " family wouldn't ID her publically since under German law it would have gotten them and her into a world of legal trouble for fraud.

Franziska Schanzkowska's friends, family, supporters probably assumed having her remains cremated would keep the uncertainty going beyond death. They couldn't have foretold modern medical science and also that the remains of the last Czar and his family would be located and exhumed.

Persons make much light of how the Anderson woman carried herself like "a lady" or "royalty". That was nor is any great effort. High class prostitutes and mistresses from common origins have been doing so for years. For actresses it is their stock and trade.

What most got the Romanovs dander up was the story AA told. Early physical exams showed the woman was not a virgin; perhaps to counter that part of the fantasy was Anastasia had escaped with the help of a Russian solider then laid with him and subsequently bore a child.

Leaving aside the matter that an heir of Nicholas II was "left behind" somewhere, the idea that a Grand Duchess gave herself to a man and bore a bastard was too much for the Romanov family. It struck the wrong notes because even then there were rumors that the Czarina and or her daughters had been criminally interfered with during captivity. That was a huge shame in early part of last century, especially for high born women. The Romanov family took great exception to those rumors and now comes Anna Anderson....

He's been trolling a lot of threads today, R62. Just ignore him.

What happened to the Glenn Close film (tv?) that was in the works? Not heard a word about it since the first press release

Really, how could anyone have believed that Anna Anderson was Anastasia, when looking at photos of them side-by-side? They were obviously two different women. The facial features are quite different.

DNA may not be the smoking gun you all think it is. Tests can be faked. DNA matching on the basis of nationality is actually in its infancy. The Romanovs, it need hardly be said, had plenty of Polish blood. Besides, many of them, not a few, had affairs out of wedlock which could result in births that don't quite match. Alexandra was not exactly a one-man woman, no was she?

The DNA test results were doctored to prevent Anastasia's family from claiming damages from Russia.

Anna Anderson is a gay icon.

[quote]The DNA test results were doctored to prevent Anastasia's family from claiming damages from Russia.

That would be remarkable if they did make that claim, seeing how they had all been dead for decades.

R68, take a good look at those side-by-side pictures at R66. Specifically, look at Princess Anastasia's thin-lipped little mouth, and Anna Anderson's full-lipped, wide mouth.

Yes, there is a resemblance between the two, but they're obviously different people.

Let's forget about Anastasia and talk about ME. I am the secret lovechild of Charles and Camilla, I am older than Prince William and I am the rightful heir to the British Throne.

I was banished to Africa as a baby but now the truth must be told. I deserve to rule.

I like when she sings "Journey to the Past".

Anna Anderson was still big news back when I had world history in high school. The teacher devoted an entire class to discussing her. The new big thing back then was matching the ears (way before DNA testing was common). Anna's ears matched 90% to the photos of the princess' ears. And, Anna knew all kinds of royal secrets. What discouraged me from believing it was her refusal to speak Russian. A person does not simply quit speaking their native language. I've worked with old people that have spoken English for 70 years, get dementia, then revert to their native tongues. I've read since some of the numerous Russian exiles in Germany may have unknowingly dropped royal secrets while conversing with Anna, which gave her knowledge. Add the world wanting to believe that at least one member of the royal family survived the massacre due to its horrendous nature (and the Soviets' constant intentional misinformation), and Anna was able to fool a lot of people for a long, long time. Personally, I wish Anna's fairy tale had been true.

Although r33 has a very good point, so too does r43. Since when do you trust the mainstream media? And DNA tests can be faked or in error. And how do we know the all the intimate details of the Romanov family?

I kind of love r1

But R74, the Romanov princesses weren't all that used to speaking Russian. I'm sure they had to learn it, but their mother was from Germany and had an English grandmother, at home they spoke German and English.

The Romanovs had been extremely Europeanized since the time of Peter the Great, previous Tsars had never learned to speak Russian at all.

Wish persons would do some research about the last Czar and his family before making comments.

" In his book M. Gilliard has recorded that he was never able to teach the Grand Duchesses to speak a fluent French. This is true because the languages used in the family were English and Russian, and the children never became interested in any other languages. "Trina" was supposed to teach them German but she had less success with that language than M. Gilliard with French. The Emperor and Empress spoke English almost exclusively, and so did the Empress's brother, the Grand Duke of Hesse and his family. Among themselves the children usually spoke Russian. The Tsarevich alone, thanks to his constant association with M. Gilliard, mastered the French language."

French was the language of the Imperial Court. Nicholas could not speak German fluently and Princess Alix of Hesse-Darmstadt could not speak Russian. They both could speak English so that was the main language used for communication between each other for the rest of their lives.

When the French Ambassador called upon the Czar the Empress had her two eldest children luncheon and dine with him to improve their French conversational skills.

She had great spunk, obviously

Anna Anderson was not full-lipped, that was her makeup.

Anna Anderson was naturally full-lipped, R80, and Princess Anastasia was thin-lipped. Google some pictures of them before you make pronouncements!

FYI full lips were very much out of fashion when Anna A. was young, she hit the scene in the 1920s when women were painting awful tiny "bee-stung lips" on their faces. No woman of her era would have painted fake full lips onto her face, particularly when she was trying to imitate someone with a tiny little mouth.

And here's Anna Anderson a little later in life, looking like she's got a trout pout decades before the invention of collagen injections.

And this is what fashionable women did with their lipstick, when Anna Anderson first hit the scene.

[quote] "Peters" would pop up from time to time to try to usurp the throne."

So, are we all agreed that Anastsia's soul must have migrated to Anna Anderson? Like in that movie, "The Reincarnation Of Peter Pop-Up."

Romney has fooled more people and he's still free.

Bump

She was no fool herself.

She didn't fool Anastasia's godmother, Grand Dutchess Olga or Xenia, Nicholas II sisters both, who met AA and told she liked her, but she wasn't her god daughter.

She was a fraud. But there are still some people (the VERY nutty Peter Kurth is among them) who want to believe the fairytale.

As I have posed here before, Anna Anderson went to Charlottesville because Gleb Botkin was there, the son of the doctor that was killed with the royal family. He was her biggest supporter. According to Botkin, they would reminisce about times when only the two were together in Russia. And remember Rasputin's daughter Maria also said she was Anastasia and would visit her in Charlottesville. Albeit, she would refuse to speak Russian, claiming it was too traumatic for her, but she was also fluent in French and German.

So did Anna Anderson speak fluent English? If she was really Anastasia she would have spoken it fluently, and with an accent like that of the British royal family.

"So did Anna Anderson speak fluent English?"

No, She spoke English very poorly.

The grand duchess Anastasia's languages:

Russian-fluent

English-fluent

French-adequate to good

Anderson's languages:

German-good

English-poor & with a Slavic accent

Anderson's supporters claimed she spoke Russian & French, no one else ever heard Anderson speak a word of these languages.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

r7

Handwriting is not an exact science, neither are fingerprints. There have been several examples now of two different people having the same match.

So let's talk about something really important:

How big was Czar Nicky's cock?

Uncut certainly, per policy. (Very rare at that time for a non-Jew to be cut.)

There are actual photos of him naked, swimming with other men in the Crimea. (Beautiful butt, six-pack abs.)

Yeah, AA is interesting, but Czar Nicky was one of the hottest men in history!

Nastassja Kinski was originally signed to play Anatasia in the NBC Mini-series. However contract negotiations broke down and she was replaced by Amy Irving

Ingrid Bergman fooled old Helen Hayes (and millions in the audience in 1956) and got an Oscar!

It shouldn't be surprising that she could speak German, English and Russian, seeing how Prussian boundaries were constantly moving throughout every decade of the 1800's and how many diasporas of people, from all over Germanic and Slavic Europe (as well as local industry related travelers from elsewhere) were in Poland at that time. She probably grew-up near Poles who were ethnic Germans or Russians, who still spoke their homeland languages.

Also, here are some Polish factory workers from that time and I'd gladly kneel before them, so don't automatically discount the allure of Polish factory workers.

The Russian aristocracy engaged English governesses and nannies (qv. Nabokov's "Speak Memory"). Any claimant to the throne who had poor English should have been instantly dismissed as a fraud.

On another thread, I can't remember which one now (I think it was one making fun of trailer park Americans), I mentioned how nearly every American who has European ancestors who arrived before 1700, are blood descendants of European aristocrat lines and many of those "White trash" Americans have European royal ancestors and some other posters couldn't believe it. But it's true.

People are people. The only real born "royals" are the super beauties.

I disagree, R4 . My mother speaks fluent Polish, but finds Russian to be rather incomprehensible. Czech is a different story for her, however.

Her language abilities should be the least consideration. Between the late 1600's and early 1900's, Poland and Germany had revolving populations of German, Polish, Dutch and Russian people in their lands and many were intermarrying and sharing communities.

You had the Dutch moving into Poland to build dams and into Germany for religious protest reasons. You had Dutch Mennonites marrying German Mennonites, German Mennonites moving to Russian religious colonies, Russians and Germans moving to Polish villages for work, some Dutch speaking Frisian or Plautdietsch, some Germans being Polish nationals but speaking German; some Polish nationals speaking Russian because they'd joined Russian religious communities within Poland.

Now, if she could speak Farsi, that would be curious.

Anna Anderson is one of those historical oddities who just fascinates me. Before the DNA test settled things finally, I couldn’t help but wonder “is it possible?” It was in the late 70s and into the 80s, when as a young gayling I first became aware of her. I had a great aunt who lived in St Petersburg before the revolution. She knew a number of the players both pro and anti AA in Europe and in NYC. Anyway I remember asking her if AA was really Anastasia. She said something like “not likely, but if by some miracle she is, they’ll never admit it”. The “they” were the Romanovs.

Not that it really matters, but I think when the other patient at the asylum remarked AA looked like the Grand Duchess, the two mental patients thought this might be their ticket out of the asylum. I really think that’s how all this started - I really don’t think AA intended to live the rest of her long life pretending to be Anastasia.

I do think some unscrupulous Russian emigres saw an opportunity with her, tried to use it for their enrichment. There were tons of seemingly credible rumours that the Tsar had millions in accounts in Europe, so convince them she was Anastasia, and get the money. AA was thus trapped, used as a pawn and controlled by others. Whether she herself wound up believing her own tale, who knows.

I do think some of her royal supporters (I’m looking at you Prince Ernst) treated her like a parlour game, knowing she wasn’t legit but enjoying seeing how many others they could fool into believing her.

One interesting tangential side note, about a year after her husband in VA died, the Bank of England suddenly found an account of the Tsar’s. Again pre DNA, so the story at the time was BofE had to wait until the husband died so their would be no claims made by him as Anastasia’s heir. Thus, with no immediate heirs left, the money could then go to the Tsar’s next of kin, his sister’s children.

Who knows though! That whole period between the wars was full of all sorts of frauds who had a good run but AA was the only one, whether by her design or the designs of others, that had staying power. If not for a piece of intestine, people would still be wondering whether she was or wasn’t.

Someone mentioned Peter Kurth is crazy - any more info to share?? I know another AA supporter/biographer James Lovell was nutty as a fruitcake, (the last chapter of his biography is in-fucking-sane!), so I’m curious to learn more about Kurth, as I believe they loathed each other.

R97 Too bad it didn't work out, Kinski would have been fantastic. I could absolutely picture her in that role.

A movie about this whole fiasco would be quite interesting. I don't believe she was Anastasia but the film could delve into her life and motivations, and how she was able to fool so many people.

It's crazy that her family had to deny her because they could've faced charges over her being batshit. If you could face charges for insane relatives, most of DL would be like...

R107 If she were related to a data lounger there would be an ongoing thread titled " My Mentally Ill, Cunty Niece Claims She's Anastasia. Should I Confront Her? "

I'm not sure the DNA proved she was a Polish factory worker. The official results were just that she wasn't who she claimed to be.

I have a number f books on her and I have read tons of stuff. I don't know the truth of her identity but as for the DNA, the results depended on whether the British Royal family was honest in the DNA they submitted to be tested against hers. I would not put anything past those powers that be to do whatever they could to deny her inheritance claims. A great deal of the Tsar's incredible wealth was held in England and does anyone believe they would have willingly parted with it.

So maybe she was and maybe she wasn't.

How can DNA show someone worked in a factory?

The same suckers fell for Anna Anderson who believe in reincarnation, Trump, and antivaxer nonsense?

Simply put, the best target of a con is the target who *wants* to be conned.

R110, you're just being deliberately obtuse, Anna Anderson was exposed as a fraud in 1920's when her former landlady's daughter recognized her as Franziska Schanzkowska. For some reason, most people would rather believe lies & nonsense rather than the truth.