6 Feet Under, in retrospect

Nate was a sex addict before his father's death. He and Brenda had a quickie in the airport in the pilot.

Lisa was difficult and extremely needy. It's not clear how her relationship with Hoyt (her brother-in-law) started.

I'm not sure that David was more well adjusted than Nate. He was a basketcase for a long time after the carjacking.

Best series finale EVER!

The deceased father had a little love shack which he brought the gals to. I wouldn't really call any of them compulsive sexually. I mean who hasn't had sex in the restroom at the airport?

Nate Sr. had a secret place, but it isn't clear what he did there.

[R4] He did have a babe back that blew him once.

Which one? Was that real or Nate Jr's imagination? All we know is that he had a room and that he was a pot head.

[quote]Repressed David was more well-adjusted than Nate, right?

No he wasn't at all. Why compare?

Interesting when you rewatch how much hipper the mother became. First episode she was just an uptight nagging mother, all buttoned up and open to nothing. By the end she was kinda hip for an older gal. Life just seemed to take her that way.

[quote]Lisa was difficult and extremely needy

Difficult? EXTREMELY insecure. It made no sense that Nate had ever been attracted to her.

Ruth probably changed the most.

Nate married Lisa because (1) she claimed he was the mother of his child, (2) he just had a near-death experience, and (3) he just broke up with Brenda. He saw Lisa as a source of stability, and he went for it.

David was well-adjusted? Didn't he turn out to be a serial killer or something?

R2 totally agree

LOL R9

No, he went all Village People and turned into a lumberjack.

I miss Keith.

Lili Taylor really nailed the character of Lisa -- a superficially nice, soft-spoken earth mother type who's actually a bundle of neuroses and pathologically passive-aggressive. If you've lived in Seattle, you've met her many times.

[quote]If you've lived in Seattle, you've met her many times.

So, she's a Seattle type? Wow!

I loved Claire. My partner and I watched the whole series on borrowed DVD over a frigid xmas/new year week and that season finale had us both sobbing. Wow.

I don't watch much tv, but loved this show for showing it's characters as deeply flawed, but ultimately worthy of love and forgiveness. If only people could remember that in real life.

Season 1 & 2 were spectacular and it picked back up during Season 5 (escalating to one of my favorite series finales of all time). Peter Krause was sex on a stick, especially during the early seasons.

Seasons 3 & 4 were pretty dull, though. The three siblings really got on my nerves during this period. HATED the James Cromwell character.

My favorite was Frances Conroy as Ruth Fisher...loved every time Ruth lost it. I hope she & Kathy Bates get to share lots of scenes together on AHS: Coven this season!

Some interesting thoughts in this thread.

Here's some BTS info for you: going into the second season, certain folks started to realize we had painted the character of Brenda into a corner too early. She was so over-the-top psychologically that they felt they had to reboot the character, so they wrote her out of the show for a while and gave what was supposed to be her arc to a new character named Lisa. This was happening about the same time as Rachel's real-life pregnancy, and seemed to solve several problems at once. Some hasty rewrites were done (i.e., Brenda's mom's lines were given to a new character that related to Lisa), but most of the story beats stayed the same, including the tragic ending (I'm sure you can figure out who the original Hoyt was). When Rachel came back, we rehabbed her character by having her hook up with someone who was even more of a sexual deviant than Brenda was, so she would look "in control" of herself by comparison... it was mostly successful, I think, but I still wonder how that original storyline would've played.

Thats really interesting BTS, R18, thanks. And I've no idea who the original Hoyt was!

Nate and Lisa were always so miserable... That show was really good.

I remember the reboot on Brenda. Don't know if it was the writing, or the acting, but it was totally believable.

The "reboot" of Brenda is an excellent example of fixing a characterization instead of making it worse or unrealistic. You don't see that much in TV land.

I would love for R18 to tell us more about that original Hoyt business.

Lisa sucked the life out of the series for me.

And Nate was the most.loathsome.character.ever. by the end of the show. I used to refer to my unhealthy disdain for him as Natred.

Haha, Natred. I remember hating Nate at some point (honestly, mostly because he married Lisa. He should have stayed with Brenda, but people make mistakes). Still he was also, mostly, so human. By the end when he was back with Brenda and cheating on her with the old guy's daughter, I could understand where he was coming from. And he was listening to his instincts again.

I personally feel monogamy is highly overrated.

Wow, r18 - that is really interesting stuff! So...assuming Hoyt was going to be Billy, does that mean they were going to kill off Brenda and Billy at some point? So glad that did not happen, as Brenda was my favorite character after Ruth.

I'm guessing that Brenda mom's lines were given to the Catherine O'Hara producer character? I read somewhere that her crazy character was based on Cybill Shepherd.

The Catherine O'Hara character was simply excellent.

And if Hoyt was Billy... I'm very glad Brenda wasn't killed off! Her character reboot (we called it "evolution" then) was one of the things I loved about the series. So they kept that idea and left it for the very end of season 5? The last episode if I recall?

Seasons 1-3 were excellent. Season 4, everything went to shit. It went from being a dark comedy/dramady to just plain dark.

loved that finale, will never forget it

True, R26. I almost stopped watching after the infamous carjacking episode. But then I truly loved Season 5. And I never liked Season 2 anyway (perhaps because Brenda was still being replaced by Lisa and no matter how much I love Lili Taylor, it somewhat troubled me).

Overall, it was one of the best shows ever, and at the time, I had never seen anything better on that level.

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R28, you mean that you never liked Season 3 (which opens with Nate and Lisa married), not Season 2 which ended with Nate breaking off his engagement with Brenda after finding out that she's basically a sex addict. Brenda pleads with Nate not to throw his engagement ring back at her, because it is “such a fucking cliché.”

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It was the first time, and so far, only time I felt a show ended when it should have ended: not before, not after.

R20, I loved Season 3, although I hated the Nate/Lisa/Maya storyline (just the way Nate pronounced Maya... Urgh!!!!! Maybe this was later, S4). Season 3 was the best season for Claire, who was my favourite character (HOT!)

Actually, Season 3 probably is my favourite season, or was when I binge-watched the show back in 2006.

I didn't like Season 2 for many reasons, I found it boring somehow, and all those scenes on the beach in Malibu were ugly to look at.

Season 5 I loved for many reasons, and couldn't come to terms with the show ending.

[quote]I didn't like Season 2 for many reasons, I found it boring somehow

That's funny because that was my favorite season. Brenda on all of her nympho escapades was hilarious.

Still, I can't say I hated any season from this show. Some I liked more than others.

But really, I would like for R18 to come back and tell us more stories.

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Olivier! What a fantastic character.

[quote]Olivier! What a fantastic character.

Were Olivier and Margaret doing anal when Brenda walked in on them?

Me too, R36. She was talented, good-looking (GREAT singing voice). Did you see Psycho Beach Party? In the right mood, watching that movie can be hilarious.

I've been rewatching again since this thread. It's OK. I think it's slightly dated. It probably just seemed so cutting edge at the time because... it was, at the time.

I loved the finale like everyone else. It was so well done.

Nate was the only character who hadn't really grown by the end. He dumped his pregnant wife, who was raising his daughter by another woman, for an affair with his duller-than-dirt stepsister, whom likely was pregnant after their one-night stand. (The last time she was seen she was rubbing her belly.)

I found interesting that the stepsister should be duller-than-dirt yet the sex would be great. Of course Brenda was much a more interesting character, but that Nate should be give in to those impulses like that... I found that interesting.

[quote]I've been rewatching again since this thread. It's OK. I think it's slightly dated.

In what ways is it dated? It's only been off the air for 8 years.

R41 I just learned something. I didn't realize that the Quaker woman could be pregnant. The last we saw of her she was in a doctor's office so maybe. Hey, it would make a great sequel. We could have Nate Jr.

You mean Nate III.

R42, Nate only had sex with her the one time - right before his brain exploded. Hm, maybe the sex was mind-blowing. She was a Quaker and Nate was drawn to her during his spirituality quest. He was drawn to her simple ways.

I've no doubt Nate would have bored of her like he did everyone else had he lived. I thought his last scene with Brenda was cruel.

Brenda showed amazing growth. She had Nate's daughter and raised her and Nate's older daughter and judging by the flash-forwards was a wonderful mother.

R46, I took it to mean the sex *was* mind-blowing. What a way to go; Good for Nate.

Yes, he was incredibly selfish to everyone around him. At least he wasn't a pervert like his old high school buddy.

Brenda was a far more interesting character, and what she did with what life gave her was inspiring.

Maybe I should watch that show again.

R43... maybe dated was the wrong word... I just found the early episodes really overwrought. Everybody was shouting all the time. The characters were a broadly drawn... the prodigal son, the cracked out rebellious daughter, the repressed to the point of snapping gay, the repressed to the point of snapping plain Jane find herself mother.... I'd remembered it as more subtle.

[quote]Brenda on all of her nympho escapades was hilarious.

I remember loving that episode where the two guys approached Brenda on her porch to ask if she had any pot. She invited them inside and then later we saw them taking turns fucking her (I think in the ass). Very hot in a depressing way. And one of the guys was played by Austin Nichols.

Why is it when women act out their sexuality they are nymphos? When men do it they are sowing their wild oats.

Um, 50, Brenda was plainly not just sowing wild oats.

So she had a three way. Just how many people on DL haven't done that?

Maggie wasn't pregnant with Nate's baby, she was at her pharma rep job which would have her visiting doctors which were her clients.

Brenda wasn't getting fucked in the ass, she was being fucked doggy style.

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I've found when I re-watched it, the seasons and story-lines that originally irritated or bored me (adopting the ghetto kids, the endless searching for Lisa who Nate didn't even like) were much more enjoyable.

It was all the great supporting characters who added so much to the show...Aunt Sarah and her friend who befriended Ruth. Ricco's wife, Billy etc...

The only person who really bugged me was the dead father who was always made out to be such a helluva guy but was just a creep.

Keith became a bore...I wanted David to find someone else. They turned into a dull married couple, obsessed with getting children, except they were two men.

R50/R52 = A frau who obviously never saw the show.

She wasn't just "sowing her oats". She was a 30-something woman in a relationship who was fucking stranger after stranger.

R18 - They also needed to write Brenda out of the way because Rachel Griffiths was pregnant at the end of season 2. I thought they did a wonderful job "rehabilitating" her.

One of my favorite episodes is "Terror starts at home", which occurs right after David is terrorized. This is when Nate gets back into the business. It's Claire that tells Nate that David isn't coping. I also loved Claire high on whatever she and her art school friends were doing coming down to the family dinner.

One funny coincidence is that Peter Krause's character on Sports Night had an ex wife named Lisa. We never see her, but she seems a lot like the Lisa from Six Feet Under.

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I still believe Nate impregnated his stepsister during their one-night stand. She was shown touching her belly and saying goodbye to her father as she was moving across the country. She needed to leave to have Nate's child without hurting his memory - and without getting sucked into his family.

Joanna Cassidy as Mama Chenowith was such a delight to watch.

[quote] It was incredible to watch, and Rachel Griffiths just sold it in every scene.

Sort of related: I had no idea Rachel Griffiths was Australian when I first saw the show, and when I heard her natural voice for the first time, I couldn't believe it.

I hated Brenda so much, that I continue to hate the actress who played Brenda.

Rachel did an amazing American accent during Six Feet Under. I tried to watch Brothers & Sisters in the beginning and noticed her Australian accent slipping in from time to time.

I read that Peter Krause had issues with how his character was being written during the final season.

I think Nate of season 5 did not want to live any longer.

WEHT the actor who played Keith?

And Freddy Rodriguez?

Matthew St Patrick (Keith) has not done that much. Still working, but no leads.

I've seen Freddy in other things.

[quote]Brenda wasn't getting fucked in the ass, she was being fucked doggy style.

IIRC, she was laying on her stomach and he was laying on top of her. It's been a while since I've had sex with a woman, but I don't think the vajay-jay is terribly reachable like that.

Yes it is, I'm a woman.

Lily Taylor destroys everything just by her presence in it. I once saw a movie ruined just because a photograph of her on a magazine stand happened to be filmed. Hideous.

Such a good series. But like all of the cable network shows except THE SOPRANOS and BREAKING BAD, it was good only through part of the third season. And then the aimless repetition starts, and the reduplication of characters and situations. And, eventually, something like Lily Taylor shows up to erase the value.

But the last scene was wonderful.

Lili Taylor actually gave a wonderful performance as Lisa. She's been good in many other things, including Starting Out in the Evening, which Lauren Ambrose is also in.

Lili Taylor was excellent as Lisa. Someone upthread captured her type of personality very well - a crunchy do-gooder who's actually incredibly selfish and manipulative when it comes down to it. She played that sad sack of a woman well throughout the third season and then just when she and Nate (and even Brenda inside that teepee thing at the art show) had finally come to an understanding about their relationship(s), she disappeared. I thought she was very effective.

The affair with Hoyt always seemed to me to be exactly the kind of thing the "real" Lisa would have done. And then pass off Maya to a conveniently recent fuck with Nate.

I remember they left Lisa's death a bit mysterious. Was general consensus that she committed suicide by walking into the ocean or was she killed?

Lisa wanted to tell her sister Barb about her affair with her husband. Hoyt admitted to Nate that he "couldn't let her do that" which, to me, was him pretty much admitting to having killed her. He then shot himself in the head.

I'll try to think of more BTS stuff and post it if I can... it was a pretty even-keeled set, everyone was a professional. We did have the "open-ended slump" toward the middle, where no one knew how long this show would exist or be successful, and the runners didn't know when to start writing toward the end game, and the actors didn't know what their ultimate arc would be, and I think the middle seasons suffered because of that, but I'm still proud.

I don't think this is exactly a secret, but since I was talking about the character of Brenda earlier: Charlotte Light and Dark was based on a real little girl profiled in an HBO documentary called Child of Rage. Alan was fascinated by this documentary because he felt the little girl was being coerced and prodded to say some spectacularly heinous things by her parents and therapist who were looking to establish a new form of radical therapy via this camera crew. Not knowing if the little girl's dysfunctions were real or an act was sort of the genesis of Brenda... Alan was also interested in exploring what it would be like to meet and start to fall in love with someone and then slowly realize she has a very deep rabbit hole in her past. If you look up the Child of Rage documentary online (I recommend you don't, it's hard stuff to watch), you can see this was one case where we could have gone even farther with Brenda but thankfully didn't. I don't know what happened to the little girl in the doc, but the attachment therapy proposed by her parents/therapist ended up killing a kid... very sad, scary stuff

Hoyt killed her.

R76 - Lauren Ambrose lost some weight between season 4 and 5. Was that planned? I wondered because it would make sense given that Claire had started doing coke.

Thank you, R75, R77.

At first I didn't like this show but later I really got into it, despite the unpleasantness of just about all the characters.

At the end I realized this. After the father's death, all the Fishers were tormented; they all started behaving irrationally and stupidly. After Nate's death they all became well-adjusted and purposeful and happy. Even crazy Brenda became a stable human being. I thought that was odd. One death in the family makes them fall apart, but another makes them free of their neuroses so they can go on to live happily ever after? I guess the writers thought it would be a novel way to end the series but I didn't buy it.

R76, I read that the Child of Rage little girl grew up, somehow, to be a normal adult with children.

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R82 - Yes. David also had another man after Keith died.

R80 - Claire was a basket case for months after Nate died. David and Ruth were not doing well either. Brenda got her act together well before Nate died.

R84 is correct. That's part of the reason Nate had bored with Brenda. Now that she was normal and pregnant, he no longer was excited by her.

R85 - so he had sex with ferret face Maggie.

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I remember being in fear of the show coming to an end because, for me, nothing on TV (The Sopranos included) had approached this level of art. But when Peter Krause gave that interview criticising the writing and complaining about Nate's lack redemptive qualities, I realised Alan Ball was right to end it at that time. Krause was starting to show signs of seeing himself as the lead (when it was an ensemble, really) and getting too invested in the character to start trying to influence his arc so that he could be viewed as sympathetic by the public and, by extension, maybe he himself might become a popular celebrity like the cast of, say, 'Friends'. I'm so glad Ball didn't stuck to his guns, and didn't cave and even went on to kill off the character.

Krause later gave another interview admitting he was wrong, but I shudder to think what would have happened if the writers had succumbed to pressure to make the characters more likeable. I'm sure Krause realises how lucky he was and that he will never be in any other thing nearly as good.

Do you guys have a favourite scene from the show? This scene from the first season (I think episode 3?) is when I realised just how special this show was and how good they were at telling a story with just pictures and music (no words). I vividly remember the effect and me turning off my TV and just basking in the afterglow for a while.

You'll also notice the end of this episode is, in many ways, stylistically similar to that epic series finale.

This is my favorite part. It has stuck with me through the years. So sweet and so sad. Everyone is in pain at this moment. And I really love it when Ruth chimes in. So sweet because of how she felt about Fiona.

Don't forget the awesome season 4 promo set to Nina Simone.

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It really did have the best series finale ever. I still can't watch the end sequence without tearing up.

It started off as a dramedy, was it still funny by the end?

R94 - There were funny moments in the last season. For instance, Claire is at her dead-end job, nodding off. One of her co-workers has "You Light Up My Life" playing. Claire imagines she's singing the song at something like American Idol, but with rants about her pantyhose instead of the real lyrics.

There's also Nate's 40th birthday party, with the crow that flies in.

"Claire was a basket case for months after Nate died. David and Ruth were not doing well either. Brenda got her act together well before Nate died."

After a relatively brief period of adjustment Claire and Nate and Ruth ALL made a complete turnaround. David gets over his mental issues; when Claire tells him "be happy" on the final show he says "I am." Ruth finds contentment as the proprietor of a doggie day care center (?) and she and George continue to fulfill each other's needs for companionship. Claire sets off for New York with no job and no place to live, no education and no work experience, blubbering; she goes on to become a respected photographer and faculty member at New York University and ends up the well-heeled wife of a freeper lawyer.

Before Nate's death Brenda was as nasty and bitchy as ever. She and Nate argued constantly; their reunion was a total mistake. If Nate had lived, their marriage would have been over; he was done with her, finally. It was only after Nate's death that Brenda became a stable-minded person who goes on to be a professor and scholar (she was previously a massage therapist). And of course she goes on to marry a handsome man and have a son, so her personal life thrives as well.

After the initial shock, ALL the characters straightened up after Nate's death.

"That's part of the reason Nate had bored with Brenda. Now that she was normal and pregnant, he no longer was excited by her."

Nate wasn't "bored" by Brenda. He was never "bored" by her. In fact, that was the main attraction; his life was the nutty, crazy, promiscuous Brenda held a certain excitement. He wasn't bored by her; he was SICK of her. Sick of her neuroses and drama and bitchiness. Brenda was pregnant but not "normal." She was still her argumentative, critical, nasty self, which is why Nate was drawn to Maggie. On his deathbed, he finally saw his relationship with Brenda for what it was: a total disaster from start to finish.

"so he had sex with ferret face Maggie."

I guess he was tired of having sex with ferret face Brenda.

R98 = Maggie, still bitter

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R100 - I saw her on House. It was Brenda who referred to her as "ferret faced Maggie".

R96 - "Before Nate's death Brenda was as nasty and bitchy as ever. She and Nate argued constantly; their reunion was a total mistake."

They argued because Nate refused to grow up. Brenda was the stable one then. Brenda was on her way to becoming a therapist BEFORE she married Nate. Brenda did not fool around after she and Nate reunited.

R97/R98= Maggie

I remember the Brenda/Nate ending as R101 does.

Brenda was NEVER "the stable one." She was always cunty and egotistical. And right before he died Nate knew he couldn't stand it anymore and the marriage was over. "I'm so tired of fighting", he said. Brenda was a cunt until the end of Nate's life.

Brenda was the best character on the show. And, as a bonus, we got her mother who had all the best lines.

It's easy to understand why Nate was attracted to Maggie. She had a serene, gentle personality, which no doubt was a welcome departure from the bottomless pit of bitchiness that was Brenda.

Brenda was very stable and in control by season 5. Here she is pregnant with Nate's child, she knows that Nate had his seizure/stroke in Maggie's company and likely suspects that they had sex, and she doesn't blow Maggie's head off, Season 2 or even season 4 Brenda would have behaved differently.

Nate wimped out.

R105 - and we got crazy Billy. The Chenowiths were so much fun.

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Joanna played a similar role s Dana Delany's mother on Body of Proof.

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R112 - "Oh don't be so dramatic Brenda" is the best line of that scene.

Maggie was so creepy - that voice, almost a whisper, and always the same expression. I was waiting for her to turn out to be a serial killer.

I don't care if she got better, I still hate Brenda. She is just that type of woman, who I would want to beat over the head with a rolled up newspaper.

That was a perfect finale. Just watched it.

Nate was the one who didn't change: a narcissist from beginning to end, one of those parents who have kids to have a duplicate of himself for the next generation.

R116 nailed it.

Maggie was not serene - she was passive-aggressive. I found her "Quakerly" calmness nauseating (and I am a Quaker in real life). Nate was a cheat with a Madonna/Whore complex; the irony is that his sainted little Maggie was cheating with him, and nearly as culpable as him. Brenda was a real woman - beautiful, flawed, intense, growing - and yet Nate reverted to these cheating little milksops. Bleh. Brenda was worth a thousand of either Nate or Maggie.

Maggie probably was a lot like Lisa.

Brenda was my favorite character, and probably Alan Ball's as well. He loves to create characters who are so detached from conventional morality that they seem capable of just about anything.

The first season sometimes feels like a mystery, as Nate tries to figure out just who this woman is -- an arsonist, a stalker, maybe an incestuous nutcase?

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R121 - Brenda wasn't a whore though she had an infatuation with one. She was godless and liberal, yeah. The whole family was liberal.

remember that one TV critic wrote that in reality it would be impossible to buy the mother's frumpy wardrobe anywhere in the Los Angeles basin.

Keith was the only one I don't remember hating at some point. What did David have that was so attractive? At least Brenda was seen as Nate's one and only match.

You Light Up My Life was exceptional.

Nate was a wimp. I thought he was so cool in Season 1, when he was mainly surfing on his looks and charm. That'll only take you so far in life. When he married Lisa I realized what a coward he really was. At least in the end he was slightly happy again.

Brenda was admirable. She had real courage, in a way that only women have apparently. She was a very well-written character and Rachel Griffiths sold her all the way.

Keith did become very violent and authoritarian at some point. I didn't like that.

Keith wasn't violent with David, he was intimidating and had a short temper with David especially during the last half of the second season. I was a fan of the actors and characters, but I was hoping David would leave Keith alone during the second season.

Brenda was awful, period.

She was supposedly "in recovery" for her sex addiction and gets involved with her hot neighbor Joe (Justin Theroux). Seemingly she is ready to embrace stability with Joe, but finds the prospect more and more unsettling. In the meantime, she and Nate are hooking up again; after all the shit they'd been through together they still can't stay away from each other. That's one definition of co-dependence. She tells Joe about it but he's willing to forgive her. Joe catches them on the couch and wisely tells Brenda that he's through with her. And she and Nate resume their tortured, destructive relationship.

And her attempt to be a therapist...well, at first she's given an assignment that puts her in a lower income neighborhood. Her nutso mother is aghast and offers to pull some strings so she can get transferred elsewhere. At first Brenda declines, but after coming into contact with all those icky poor people who beat the crap out of their children and sexually molest them she decides she wants to get the hell out and her mother gets her a cushy assignment listening to the woes of privileged rich kids. Such a dedicated "therapist." BRENDA was the one in need of a therapist.

"Ain't you got any other cookies besides these?"

I always wanted Taylor to come running up to the Fisher porch unannounced during the finales last scenes and jump into David's arms like Kami Colter did at the beginning of The Waltons...

[quote]Lily Taylor destroys everything just by her presence in it.

I agree. And she always has those overdramatic huge wide eyes like she's just seen a ghost. So annoying.

Love Lili Taylor and she was perfect for the (milksop) part.

Does anyone else think that Lili's character was pregnant by her BIL and not Nate?

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This rabid anti-Brenda troll seems unhinged. Why are you posting variations on the same thought over and over again?

I would say Brenda's decision about the internship was wrong, or at least cowardly and lazy, but it was totally realistic.

To the webmaster, I just clicked on troll-dar by mistake, and then when I see what it did (highlight several posts presumably by the same poster) I troll-dared myself and could see that indeed this is what troll-dar does. It highlights other posts by the same poster.

This is to say I didn't flag myself or anyone else as a troll, I was just playing with the buttons.

Favorite scene is where Maggie brings the quiche for Brenda & Maya, and Brenda says, "What is this, some kind of Quaker thing? You fuck someone's husband to death, then you bring them a quiche?"

Shit, now that I've troll-dared myself, everything I ever post is in flaming yellow.

Urgh.

Funny thing is, Brenda got her ass thumped up against the wall by one of the privileged students. I guess it was karma for her leaving the low-income mental health clinic.

R123, I agree, although I have a different theory. I'm pretty sure she just stopped buying clothes around 1982. everything she wears looks so dated.

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What other fact of life have you discovered today, O sweet little r126? Do share.

And if you think the webmaster monitors or even cares who you troll-dar, you've got bigger daddy issues than all of 6FU characters put together.

R141 - I agree. So, in which neighborhood did the Fishers live?

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Actually the pro-Brenda trolls are the ones who appear to be "unhinged." I'm simply stating the facts.

I'm just sick of all the nauseating praise for the urbercunt slutbag Brenda. She was "admirable?" And had "real courage?" "Showed amazing growth?" And was a "wonderful mother?" What crap!

I notice the pro-Brenda trolls also blame everything on Nate. I always felt sorry for Nate. He was so fucked up that got involved with a woman who always put him down and screwed other men like crazy. She was probably a good fuck, though. I think that really was the main reason they kept getting back together; for the sex. I didn't think all the mental torture was worth it.

It's a shame Nate finally came to grips with the hopelessness of his relationship with Brenda too late. I was so proud of him for finally saying it was the end. Brenda wanted to keep it going ("you don't even want to try?") but Nate knew it was no use. He thinking clearly for the first time. I've heard that some people who are on their deathbeds are extremely lucid towards the end. It seems that was what happened with Nate.

Sometimes Colby Keller makes it look like you're watching Nate fuck guys, which is wonderful.

R145 - "He was so fucked up that got involved with a woman who always put him down and screwed other men like crazy."

Huh? Brenda wasn't always putting Nate down.

Season 5 Brenda was dedicated to making things work with Nate. She took in Lisa's child and was willing to be her mother.

sorry r126, I meant r136.

Remember that UGLY little TROLL Maya? What a little grump. She looked like the knife wielding murdering midget with the red raincoat in the film Don't Look Now, starring the glorious Julie Christie.

Can't stand when white parents name their daughters Maya.

I was just thinking about watching this series again but I don't want to watch all the Nate and his women bullshit. I liked everyone else (David, the mom, Keith, Claire, Rico), but the whole Nate/Lisa/Brenda storyline was bad enough the first time around

It's funny. I really enjoyed this show when it was on the air. Never missed an episode, even when it got bad. And when it rebounded at the end, I was so glad I stuck with it. The last three or four episodes were amazing and the best ending for a series ever.

BUT, I have absolutely no desire to ever see it again. I rewatch THE SOPRANOS and THE WIRE constantly. I imagine I'll be revisiting BREAKING BAD soon. But I just can't bring myself to watch 6FU again. It just seems like it would be a slog.

One critic called Maya "the turnip child." She never spoke. Never. Mentally challenged, maybe?

She did speak in the last season or two, r153. Just a few words, like "Where's daddy?" after Nate died, which was fucking heartbreaking. I watched one of the episodes with the commentary on, and they joked that they called her "Baby Brando" because apparently she was really professional and good at listening.

r150 - Why? It's a pretty common name in more than one culture.

R154 - they are toasting Nate in the finale. Brenda says to Maya, "Can you say, 'to Daddy'". Maya says "To Daddy".

I never had a problem with Maya not speaking. She was always meant to be a plot point, not a meaningful character in her own right.

And R152, I can understand not wanting to revisit "Six Feet Under" (although it's my fallback whenever there's nothing good on HBO Go). "Six Feet Under" feels too personal sometimes -- you likely know people a lot like the Fishers -- whereas the shows you mentioned, as dark as they can be, have a more escapist quality, assuming you're not a career criminal.

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I wish the Fishers would invite me to dinner.

The Chenowiths would be more entertaining.

I'm one of the few people who loved the carjacking episode and thought it brought the show out of a bit of a tedious slump.

The thing I loved most about the series was how organic it felt. The storylines and the character interactions always felt so natural and true to life that I assumed many of the plots were based on the writers' lives until I heard otherwise. When there was a guest star, it never felt like "So-and-so in a three-episode arc." They just flowed in and out like so many people do in life.

The most surprising thing to me was how the entire series basically ended up being about Claire. It was totally her story there at the end.

R162 I suspect it was because Claire escaped the Fishers.

R161 - I would not say that I enjoyed the car jacking episode, but it is essential to the story and was really well done.

I loved the carjacking episode. I was absolutely convinced that the actor who played the carjacker would become an overnight star. He was SO good. I could just picture his agent watching the episode at home, grinning ear to ear, knowing he had a rising star on his hands. And then... (crickets).

A guest arc on SCRUBS, a few other little things. But he never took off. Why? He was so damn good on 6FU.

While I cna't say that I loved the carjacking episode (it left me much too traumatised for that), to me it made television history. Up until then, I thought my beloved characters were safe. Stuff could happen to them, but within very clear boundaries that respected, for a starters, the show's structure.

In that episode we're stuck with David and there's no escape, that in itself was pretty shocking apart from the story. I truly believed David could die, in a way which we don't usually associate with the familiarity of a television series that is not a cop show (see "people who know who were murdered" thread).

6FU was groundbreaking in many ways, somehow I can't bring myself to watching it again. It's probably the show that had the biggest, profoundest, most intimate impact on my life, though.

And Claire was super hot.

R165 - The guy who played Jake was on House as a private investigator House hired, who later became Cuddy's love interest.

R166 - Claire was super hot.

"Huh? Brenda wasn't always putting Nate down."

She was always contemptuous towards him and being basically weak-willed he would just let it slide. When she started writing he asked if he would be one of the characters in her story. She told him maybe: "if you ever do anything interesting." Nasty!

R168 - Season 2 Brenda, not season 5.

Does anyone remember if the song Nate danced to with his baby was the band X's We're Desperate or Los Angeles? I have money bet on this.

I stopped watching for a few seasons after realizing the show would depress me and wasn't a good ending to a weekend. Then I started with the final season. Boy, did I cry hard at the ending. Best ever.

For all of you who think the finale offered some kind of “happy ending” - you are aware that it wasn't a depiction of the “real” future, aren't you? It was all about what Claire was imagining while driving east, comforting herself with (mostly) optimistic scenarios as a way to deal with departing with her loved ones and facing the uncertainty of the future. It was really the logical way to end the show which was as much about its characters inner lives as it was about “reality”.

[quote]I'm one of the few people who loved the carjacking episode and thought it brought the show out of a bit of a tedious slump.

I hated that episode and never watched the show again after that. I was disgusted that once again the gay man was portrayed as a wimp who couldn't defend himself.

[quote] "Six Feet Under" feels too personal sometimes -- you likely know people a lot like the Fishers -- whereas the shows you mentioned, as dark as they can be, have a more escapist quality, assuming you're not a career criminal.

Fucking THIS! I always contend this Six Feet Under is better than The Sopranos, The Wire and Breaking Bad for this exact reason.

Good choice r90. Lord, I've never seen anything so heartbreakingly beautiful on TV or cinema.

I love this thread. Keep discussing, please.

One of my best friends was a PA on this show. Kathy Bates took a liking to her when she was still just directing episodes and ended up casting her in the episode "Twilight". She's the OTHER girl getting an abortion when Claire does and had three brief scenes with no dialogue. I've always been so jealous that she is actually on one of my favorite shows.

She always said that everyone on set was incredibly friendly (no drama) and she used to occasionally babysit for Rachel Griffiths' son whose name, IIRC, is Banjo.

Ruth was my favorite by far. Fuck my legless grandmother.

Here's a link to one of my favorite scenes, when David and Keith go on vacation. It is so classic.

When Ruth and Ed Begley Jr go camping and she took the pills. Best episode ever.

I loved the show but did think that Ruth's sister's character needed a bit of work. She was such a Southern California stereotype to me.

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R181 - That's Ball's opinion. Yes, I know he wrote it, but what aired was ambigious. It could be what happened or what Claire imagined.

Did nutcase Billy really bore Brenda to death in that montage. It looked like she died while he was madly chattering away nonstop.

R90, that episode reminds me of one of my favorite little details from the finale. The "Calling All Angels" episode ends with Ruth depressed because the girls were joking about an all-women commune where the men visit just for pleasure, but Ruth thought they were serious.

During the final montage, you see that Ruth is living with Sarah, operating a doggie day care with Bettina, and has George as a visitor, but not a husband. She got the commune after all.

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Interesting, like The Wire and unlike The Sopranos, 6FU was never won acting Emmys for its principle cast which goes to show just how much award shows are influenced by public ratings and popularity. Very few actors then and since could compete with Frances Conroy, Michael C. Hall, Rachel Griffiths and even Lauren Ambrose. The Golden Globes, however, loved this show and the performances.

I loved the series, and think the finale was the best finale in history. High bar, there.

I never liked Brenda, and never bought the idea that someone as attractive as Nate would be into her. Sure he might bang her in an airport closet, but I don't believe he would pursue someone as unattractive as her. But that might explain Nate's attraction to the homely Lisa....

I remember reading in gossip columns that the actress who played Brenda didn't wear deodorant and thus was unpleasant to be around.

I loved Rainn Wilson as Arthur, and was always shocked at the real age of the woman who played Ruth. I think she is only about 10 years older than Peter Krause or Michael C. Hall, but she sure looked at least 40 years older.

[quote] I never liked Brenda, and never bought the idea that someone as attractive as Nate would be into her. Sure he might bang her in an airport closet, but I don't believe he would pursue someone as unattractive as her.

Wow. Just goes to show that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think Nate is "meh" at best and he was batting well above his league with Brenda.

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[quote]Whoops....sorry, Conroy was 51 when the show started! She looked about 10 years older. She's only 12 years older than Peter Krause.

Old enough to play his grandmother!

[quote]I loved the show but did think that Ruth's sister's character needed a bit of work. She was such a Southern California stereotype to me.

Oh, God, I loved her, are you kidding?

I love the whole Topanga Canyon thing. Actually I adored her.

WHo was her friend who had taken Nate's virginity who ended up dead in the Fisher's basement? Had a great Jewish name.

6FU is wonderful to rewatch. I've watched it all several times and enjoyed even more each time. There's so much of it and to it you see so many things for the first time each time.Even the boring series don;t seem to boring second time round. God knows why.

I loved Parker, Claire's promiscuous friend.

[quote]She was only 41 when the show started!

When she throws the 'phone across the kitchen. That's when the show begins and you know you're onto something.

Claire's BF with the chin bugged me, but the episode with his brother redeemed him.

R183 - Yes,

R193 - I loved Parker McKenna.

Fran Conroy and Lauren Ambrose really look like mother/daughter.

[quote]I mean who hasn't had sex in the restroom at the airport?

It was a closet.

[quote]I never liked Brenda, and never bought the idea that someone as attractive as Nate would be into her. Sure he might bang her in an airport closet, but I don't believe he would pursue someone as unattractive as her. But that might explain Nate's attraction to the homely Lisa....

LOL. Attractive? Nate, was as average looking as you'll ever get. I would never notice him on the street. So he's not even a good example for the point I wanted to make, which is, hot straight guys paired up with average looking women is very common, at least where I live. Brenda was no beauty, but she was interesting looking. Now Keith, otoh, was the only main male character I would describe as attractive and sexy. He was way out of David's league looks wise.

Very few men can pull off the bald look the way Keith did.

I'd say that both Nate and Brenda were rather attractive. Brenda had a really nice body.

Yeah, why was Keith attracted to David?

Keith and David together. Unfortunately, TV has since failed to build up on gay characters with as much depth as these two.

Peter Krause said he auditioned for David but Alan Ball thought he was better suited for Nate.

R201 - He was better suited for Nate, and Michael Hall was perfect for David.

R193, it was Fiona Kleinschmidt.

R203 - I loved how Ruth was mortified about Fiona Kleinschmidt.

Love David and Keith together!

[quote]It was all about what Claire was imagining while driving east, comforting herself with (mostly) optimistic scenarios as a way to deal with departing with her loved ones and facing the uncertainty of the future.

Yes, nothing lifts me up when I'm feeling down like imagining the deaths of the people I love.

I couldn't stand Lisa and I loved the way they killed her off.

R206 - Except for Keith's, the deaths were all in old age and non violent.

What 206 was saying was that in no way would Claire drive off and imagine everyone's fucking deaths! Proving that poster dead wrong who said Alan Ball stated that this was the case- that Claire was imagining everyone's future. What nonsense.

I will say this thread has made we rewatch the show. I forgot how much I identified with Brenda. I was 23 or 24 during the 2nd season and I went out and bought a MAC Powerbook because Brenda had one. I wasn't into computers at all and thought her computer was so cool.

I have used Mac laptops ever since.

Wow, i sound like a fucking tool!

Oh well. Great show and this thread has let me revisit.

R209 - Why wouldn't Claire imagine the future - it's not just deaths. There are two marriages (David/Keith & Claire/Ted) and some other moments as well as the deaths.

Claire grew up around death. Unlike Nate, she is not particularly afraid of death or squeamish. Why wouldn't she imagine the deaths as well as the other events?

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Even though I do agree with Ball's interpretation, what Ball says is irrelevant. What matters is what he put on the screen for the audience, and if it lends itself to a different view -- and I think there's just enough wish-fulfillment there to justify that interpretation -- that view is as legitimate as Alan Ball's.

If Ball wanted to make it completely, 100% obvious that the characters died exactly as was shown he could have done so, but it probably wouldn't have been as effective.

Yeah he did, R212, then he filmed it then he aired it.

[quote]Even though I do agree with Ball's interpretation, what Ball says is irrelevant.

He fucking WROTE it r212, what's wrong with you? I don't understand fanbois like r212 who try to usurp an artistes work and manipulate it to suit their fantasies instead of creating their own. The same thing happened when J.K. Rowling declared Dumbledore "gay" and was challenged by millions because it was their book now, not the author's. Another was Peter Krause who forgot he was a mere actor; a vessel for the writer and tried (and, thankfully, failed) to influence or change Nate Fisher's trajectory.

R212 is a nutcase.

As the one who came up with the-finale-is-a-fragment-of-Clare’s-consciousness theory, I must endorse R212 insightful post. I wasn't aware Ball said this was a “definitive” depiction of the future of these characters, whatever that may mean, and hopefully what he meant was that for him, that was the right way for these characters to end up. But yes, once what is indeed HIS creation is out there for us to consume, it’s for each and every one of us to subjectively read it, and thankfully, as R212 suggested, the finale was sophisticatedly enough written to allow more than one interpretation, the way good Art should be. And since I, personally, appreciated 6FU (at its best) for being emotionally challenging and even, at times, disturbing, I choose to accept these “prophecies” with a substantial grain of salt. I’m happy for all of you who (passionately) prefer the happily-ever-after root, alas, grumpy old me is not one of you. The truly intriguing question is why are you so disturbed by my suggestion for a different interpretation of a FICTIONAL tv show.

r216. They posted the obituaries on the HBO site after the finale: "Everything Ends".

So what, R217. These are not actual people with factual biographies. The show was presented to the world as it was. Everything else, including stuff said by its creators, is not integral part of the piece itself. And a lot of it is about sucking up to the fans of the show and making them feel all cozy and comfy. It may be fun, but it’s not on par with what was presented to us in the 63 filmed episodes of the show. And unsurprisingly, it's all about making people feel reassured with a rather cheap and thematically false sense of closure. It’s one’s prerogative to buy this stuff. I feel it betrays the integrity of the show. But, to each his own.

Fine, r218. Why don't you go ahead and change Dickens and Dostoyevsky to suit your fantasies since some of their work is a little too bleak? The one thing you can never accuse 6FU of doing is sucking up to the fans; they firmly resisted calls to make the characters more likeable and abruptly ended the show when they felt it was time, unlike The Sopranos who stretched it out by a couple more seasons and succumbed to stunt casting and sensationalistic plots obviously due to pressure from the public and HBO who were making a lot of money out of it.

R218, how would imagining Keith getting shot "comfort" Claire?

Thank you 220! What the F is wrong with these dopes?

I'm all for an individual's personal interpretation of art, but it's foolish to state that the intention of the creator HIMSELF is different than what he has explicitly stated. That's just... foolish.

[quote]I’m happy for all of you who (passionately) prefer the happily-ever-after root, alas, grumpy old me is not one of you.

I thought you were arguing that your interpretation was the "happily-ever-after root" -- that Claire is imagining long lives for her loved ones to bring her comfort? (I guess she hated Keith and thought David deserved better -- though she did give David a sop and let him "see" Keith again just before his death.)

Exactly r222. If JK Rowling says Dumbledore is gay, just what level of arrogance were the fans arguing otherwise, WITH THE AUTHOR, coming from? Similar case here, Alan Ball hasn't left it open to interpretation but stated explicitly in interviews and in the work itself what happened with the characters. The cheek.

Still my favorite TV show ever. Right on top of Breaking Bad, Sex and the City and the original Sex and the City, Sex & the Cheesecake, a.k.a. the Golden Girls.

Keep this thread going! I love the insider information.

BTW are Alan Ball and Peter McDissi still together?

It is funny. I ADORED SFU when it was on. Definitely In the Top 5 series ever for me regardless.

But The Sopranos, which I liked very much, I now ADORE more than SFU.

The Sopranos has aged so much better and its much more multi layered than SFU.

Love them both, but the key thing for me is how dated SFU seems in a sense.

R223 - Was it established that Father Jack was gay?

I'd say Nate was much more attractive than Brenda. She may have had a good body, but her face resembled that of a rat. And she was such a slut that he'd fuck a man she'd just met in an airport closet or toilet or whatever. It was a measure of how fucked up Nate was that he would pursue a relationship with a woman like her, that is, a total nutjob. Lisa was similar to Brenda; a mousy brunette with severe mental problems. Maggie was the same type physically, but she was the only one who wasn't profoundly fucked up, which is why Nate was drawn to her. If he had lived he would have left the continually combative, snarky Brenda and started a new life with Maggie.

I have no idea why Keith wanted to be with screwed up, whey-faced David. During one of their separations Keith was involved with a good-looking, seemingly well-adjusted black man; they had a minor tiff and poof it was over. The show made it seems like the minor argument was just an excuse for Keith to try and get back together with David. I never could see why Keith would want to be in a relationship with messed up, average looking David.

r228, you sound very lookist. Not everybody is looking to bang a supermodel.

R228 - Brenda, at least early one, was pretty. And yes, she had a great body.

Brenda was also willing to try to make things work in season 5.

Good grief, R228. Brenda is a slut for having sex with a man she just met in an airport but no such condemning of Nate for having sex with a woman he just met in an airport?

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R228 - Keith and the guy he was with in between David broke up because that guy was not interested in taking care of Keith's niece.

I didn't call Brenda a slut, I simply could not stand her character.

Brenda and Nate funeral shopping.

That was a great scene of the two of them funeral shopping.

Yes, it shows that Brenda is a natural actress and can be very manipulative when she wants to be.

Any guy who would bang a not particularly attractive, strange woman he's just met in an airplane closet/toilet has some kind of problem. And to pursue a relationship with that same strange woman indicates that something is REALLY wrong with him.

Here's something I remember from the Nate/Brenda relationship. She comes to the Fisher house to meet the family; she wears an inappropriately revealing dress (short skirt, boobs hanging out). Poor Ruth hears a sound like moaning; she walks into a room to the sight of Brenda in a chair with her legs open, Nate between her legs eating her pussy!

Nate and Brenda were two incredibly, unbelieveably fucked up people. That was why they were drawn to each other. That was why their relationship was, from beginning to end, a horror story.

R238. You honestly never have had sex in the toilet of an airport?

[quote]You honestly never have had sex in the toilet of an airport?

Some people are just afraid of living life.

I think people like r228 only exist on DL, and probably Hollywood. The majority of people do not settle into relationships on the basis of looks alone. Walk through a mall and, assuming you're gay, check out all the hot men with average looking women.

Nate falls for needy women. It wasn't just Brenda, Maggie, and Lisa. He also fell for the daughter of the executed man (played by Anne Dudek).

I think I'm the only one who enjoyed the pesky Tracy Montrose Blair and wish she could've been used past the first season.

R243 - I think you are.

I think David came out too soon, pushed out by Keith who gave him an ultimatum. It would've been interesting to explore the closet a little longer.

David came out over the course of a season.

Claire lost weight when Lauren Ambrose was working theater in England and hated the food.

The show sucked for a while after Lisa disappeared and Nate went around wearing a cross body diaper bag permanently, looking like a total schmuck.

Ruth was my favorite character. Repressed housewife who was having a secret affair when her husband was killed, then found her own personality and began to live.

Kathy Bates was simply awesome as Bettina. Rico's wife Vanessa was great. Many great characters. I loved Billy when he & Claire were a pair and he went into a manic stage, going on a huge spending spree and dancing in his new leather pants. Best series I've ever seen, no question.

R247 - Ruth started out as my least favorite character. I grew to like her.

Katy Bates was amazing. As was Catherine O'Hara playing Lisa's diva boss.

Who wouldn't want a best friend like Bettina? She was carefree, down-to-earth, funny and not - unlike every other character on 6FU - a tortured soul.

R249 - She was a bit of a sociopath, though.

How so, R250? She was there to be hands-on, tough-love help to Sarah when she was de-toxing for drugs and she was there for Ruth when Nate died. Hardly the hallmarks of a sociopath.

Her occasional bouts of shoplifting were played for comedy, and certainly don't define Bettina as a "sociopath."

R251 - I was thinking of the shopliftiing, which is sociopathic.

While shoplifting is a characteristic of some sociopaths, that certainly doesn't mean that all shoplifters are sociopaths.

In no other respect was Bettina portrayed as a sociopath. She never victimized or hurt any other character.

She was usually the sensible voice of reason. In fact, her relative sanity was presented as a refreshing contrast to the never-ending emotional agitas of the core characters, particularly when they mourned for Nate.

R253 - Yes, I see that.

I think the shoplifting was out of character. They were going for laughs at the expense of the character.

Also, R252, some women begin shoplifting while going through menopause, some kind of hormonal trigger. That doesn't mean they're sociopathic.

"When they sell a scarf for 300 bucks that costs them 25 bucks to make, they have to expect to lose a few."

Plus she made her point that she and Ruth were invisible to the sales staff - and that's how they got away with it.

Alan Ball and Peter Macdissi (the awful Olivier) are domestic partners. They were sued several years ago by neighbor Quentin Tarantino for keeping loud exotic birds.

Interesting how Michael C. Hall went on to play another intriguing character in Dexter whilePeter Krause, in his current show, 'Parenthood' is part of another family, the Bravermans, who come of us dull, boring and unexciting when compared to the Fishers. I think it's the 6FU for fraus.

Krause's character on Parenthood is among the least interesting.

Yes, the least interesting of a very dull family. The Bravermans is what the Fishers would have become if the writers had given in to demands for "inspiring" and redemptive arcs. I tried watching an episode of Parenthood and nearly got a toothache from the schmaltz.

I loved the scene where, before David came out, Ruth was watering flowers one morning when his one night stand tried to sneak out. She silently sprayed him with the hose.

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"I thought Olivier was awful too."

He WAS awful. But at the end of the series everything had to be wrapped up in a nice little package, so the awful Olivier became "nice" and helped Claire get a job offer in the New York. It fell through, but it motivated her to do something with her wastrel life. I even remember Olivier cooing and making faces at little Maya! Quite a change from the very nasty character he started out as. But then everybody on the show became nice and settled and purposeful at the end of the series. How lame it turned out to be.

Oliver turned into comic relief.

[quote]Alan Ball and Peter Macdissi (the awful Olivier) are domestic partners. They were sued several years ago by neighbor Quentin Tarantino for keeping loud exotic birds.

What a dick that Tarantino is. I can't stand him.

This show had such great love-to-hate characters. Julie White as Mitzi Dalton Huntley was deliciously evil during Season 2 as their funeral home nemesis. It was a shame how she quietly disappeared.

My favorite Margaret Chenowith moment has to be towards the series finale when Ruth brings the stuffed monkey to Maya's birthday party and Margaret nonchalantly pushes it behind the couch.

[quote]I loved the scene where, before David came out, Ruth was watering flowers one morning when his one night stand tried to sneak out. She silently sprayed him with the hose.

I thought the one night stand was very cute. He also did well with his very small part.

The only interested relationship in The show was David and Keith. There should be a sling off show forces on them

Nate and Brenda are such a self centre bore.

Keith was such a dick to David when they moved in together.

David met the perfect guy (a young and very cute Adam Scott) and dumped him. This was when he and Keith were no longer dating. I remember how pissed off that made me at the time.

It's interesting that there is so little written about Rico on this thread considering he was a major character. Was he really that boring and unforgettable?

Me, I liked his scenes at the funeral home but tuned out a bit during scenes that showed his homelife (though I do like the actress that played Vanessa). The storyline of him having an affair with the stripper was boring.

Rico was a cunty little asshole (and homophobic). I always hated his character. Loved Vanessa though. I thought her grief and depression over losing her mother felt very real and was at a pace with the show's theme.

My favorte Rico episode is when they showed a flashback of how he met Nathaniel Sr. Freddy Rodriguez as a teenager was hardly a stretch!

Keith definitely had some anger issues. It's unfortunately he sometimes acted like a dick to David. I like the story line of David meeting a cute at the Gay men choir and the funny ' paintball scenes ' with the 'Ladies'

At first I didn't like Rico all that much but he really grew on me. I ended up thinking he was adorable. Loved his smile.

Alan Ball said that they used someone else for old Rico because there was no way Freddie R. would look old.

No one says anything about the dead father.

They're my most hated scenes. He was always made out to be such a cool guy. A sort of everyman's man and it bugged me.

Glad he wasn't alive. They had much more fun without him.

R277 - Different characters had different impressions of Nate Sr. He was a projection of what the other characters saw him as.

Am I the only one who thought Richard Jenkins was kind of sexy?

Is Richard Jenkins, Nate Sr? If so, then hell yes! He was a sexy mofo!

bump

Bumping. I have to rewatch this show every few years and just watched the finale. If you don't have tears streaming down your face watching the last episode---especially the last ten minutes, you are dead inside.

Brenda is my favorite character although I hated her in Season 2. She had the most pronounced arc of any of the characters on the show. I hated Nate by the end and that "sappy little ferret", Maggic.

This show isn't perfect... there are definitely weaker seasons and storylines. I could've done w/out the hooded phantom following David and his incessant weeping and freaking out (although I love MCH and find him to be an exceptional actor).

I miss this show. Such an amazing cast and Rachel Griffiths was in her prime. I'd love to see her star on Wentworth, the Aussie reimagining of Prisoner Cell Block H.

Peter Krause and Michael C. Hall are two of the best actors on TV ever. They were both Emmy worthy every season - even with the obvious award-baiting and neverending carjacking plotline.

They were so good that the actors who were not operating at their level really stood out. The Keith character was wooden and unrealistic, and reminded me of by-the-numbers daytime soap acting.

Lily Taylor's was relentlessly unlikeable. Jeremy Sisto's character dominates every scene he was in, and no matter who he was talking to, it would come back to his nonsense. Joanna Cassidy was excellent and not written into enough scenes.

"Transatlanticism" by Death Cab for Cutie will always remind me of when Mena Suvari sings it with Claire and her art school classmates.

I just finished rewatching the entire series. I don't remember hating Nate as much on the first go around, but what a dick. Brenda was terrible too. All of them were pretty unlikable, yet I loved the show. That's pretty amazing. I wish I could see the weekly discussions we had when it was on. And yes, I wept at the ending, that surprised me even tho I knew what was coming and didn't expect to cry, let alone sob.

Though I watched each episode when it was new, I never loved 6FU. I found the mother and daughter impossible to like, and David was my least favorite gay of all time. I thought I would bingewatch this winter, but I couldn't get any further than the middle of season 1, ep 2.