1776 (the movie)

Beautiful songs, well sung.

Pauline Kael hated it, and has a hilariously mean review that probably pisses off to no end the many Broadway queens here who absolutely adore the original show. She called it "a Broadway operetta featuring those lovable old codgers, the Founding Fathers."

So great that Virgina Vestoff got to recreate her broadway role. She was great

But poor Betty Lynn!!!

When I saw it on stage, it was so well-done that I totally got caught up in it. I was nearly on the edge of my seat with worry that they would vote it down. (I know: Mary!)

It's a great movie. Virginia Vestoff is truly something. RIP.

It's the only movie featuring Gwyneth Paltrow in which she's not completely intolerable.

You forgot "The Great Santini," r5. But I agree--those are the only two.

R5 Was she an embryo? Because her mother is in the movie, not Goopy.

[quote] Is it the best movie adaptation of a Broadway musical of the Seventies?

1776 made its Broadway debut in 1969.

But the movie was released in 1972.

William Daniels was better as the voice of KITT - we didn't have to look at his sour puss and feel his overpowering ego pouring over us....

[quote] But the movie was released in 1972.

So is it the best movie adaptation of a 1970s Broadway musical, or the best 1970s movie adaptation of a Broadway musical?

Goop, not GOP.

Trying to imitate William Daniels in the movie, r11?

LOVE this movie and the show.

Is it the best 70s movie adaptation of a Broadway musical?

It's a decent movie. But Fiddler is better.

Did anyone know Virginia Vestoff? She had some kind of drama in her life regarding her parents, can't remember what. I knew someone who saw her in "I'm Getting My Act Together" shortly before she died. He said she was brilliant, and that her performance was definitely informed by the fact that she knew she was going to die.

They made Richard Henry Lee into a comic, stupid buffoon, which he was not! Mindless Yankee Propaganda!

Howard DaSilva was a much bigger prima donna than William Daniels. DaSilva had to basically beg the producers to let him play the role because they were afraid his antics would hold up production.

"She called it "a Broadway operetta featuring those lovable old codgers, the Founding Fathers.""

As if often the case, Kael, whom I greatly admired, says something absolutely true which, no matter how derisively she might have intended it, utterly fails to detract from my love and appreciation for a film.

"Don't forget that most men with nothing would rather protect the possibility of becoming rich than face the reality of being poor. ..... " John Dickinson, 1776

True today as it was then.

I didn't know Virginia Vestoff (tiny bit before my time; well was alive but young!), but my NYC roommate's much older boyfriend knew her, and said she was an absolutely wonderful woman (I think they worked on another show.) I remember reading her obit; said she wasn't survived by anyone? if I remember...but as someone mentioned, guess there might have been some drama with her parents, maybe...

To the poster who quoted Kael: I disagree with her not liking the film, or calling it an "operetta" BUT: she is spot-on about Daniels seeming like a prim schoolboy. In, hello, just about ALL his parts! Closet-case CUBED, if ever there was one; I don't care that he's married over 50 years (to an actress) with 2 sons (adopted.) Queen.Of.The.Nile.

R15 is wrong, 1776 has it all over Fiddler.

DaSilva was wonderful as Franklin. They were all excellent. Blythe was quite fetching. Who knew the horror she would unleash on an unsuspecting world?

I'm obnoxious and disliked, it cannot be denied.

One useless man is a disgraced. Two useless men are called a law firm, and three or more form a Congress.

Will someone shut that man up?

NEVAH!

NEVAH!

Best movie adaptation of a Broadway musical in the '70s?

You queens have never heard of "Cabaret"?

Isn't the ENTIRE Broadway cast in the film with the exception of Betty Buckley? That must have hurt.

She was in London doing Promises, Promises (R28).

I LOVE this show and this film.

Saw it in a theatre with my 5th graders school last year and those kids were on the edge of their seats. it really is a great piece of writing.

[quote]You queens have never heard of "Cabaret"?

GREASE and HAIR are also better adaptations of stage musicals made in the 70s. I am glad the film version of 1776 exists but I think it could have been a lot better. For one thing, the orchestra sounds like it was recorded through a tin-can telephone on the soundtrack.

"Isn't the ENTIRE Broadway cast in the film with the exception of Betty Buckley? That must have hurt."

No. John Cullum was not Rutledge in the original cast and there was a different actor as Dickinson.

"I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is called a disgrace. That two are called a law firm. And that three or more become a Congress."

Great film of a great stage play. No ifs, ands, or buts!

r32 some things never change, do they?

Loved both the movie and the play. Who would have thought a musical about the Declaration of Independence could be so entertaining.

R35, agree! Have seen 2 pretty good perfs in semi-professional theater in Concord, CA and Napa, CA a few years ago. Next up: opening - pretty soon - at ACT in SF.

I've always felt bad that the composer/lyricist - Sherman-something? died relatively young, c. 53, and this was the only thing (I believe) he had written, at least for Bway. And he was a teacher. Something of a prickly pear, too - not sure where I read this (Peter Stone's book, maybe.)

GREAT show.

BB really hasn't had luck on her side much, has she?

How does Blythe sound on He Plays The Violin? Passable?

R38 - More than passable.

1776 is a masterpiece if you think about how dry and dull the subject sounds.

Completely untrue in both cases R20.

"GREASE and HAIR are also better adaptations of stage musicals made in the 70s. I am glad the film version of 1776 exists but I think it could have been a lot better. For one thing, the orchestra sounds like it was recorded through a tin-can telephone on the soundtrack."

I love the movie of HAIR, R30, but my brain can't process that you actually think the piece-of-shit GREASE movie is a better adaptation than 1776.

As for the way the orchestra sounds on the soundtrack: What home video version do you have? The original stereo recordings were restored for the DVD, and I think they sound pretty great overall.

Even the great Patricia Zipprodt who designed the show on Broadway designed the film of 1776.

It was one of her rare forays into cinema. Well, that one and The Graduate.

John Cullum did take over from Clifford David as Rutledge on Broadway. Howard da Silva was Franklin on Broadway but only for the first four performances. Da Silva had suffered a heart attack before the show opened but stayed in just long enough for the critics to see him.

It's interesting to get all this extra background info on a wonderful film.

Being a musical buff and a history buff, 1776 is a total joy for me. It's also remarkably accurate for a musical, though there are errors in the show that are really just to aid the storytelling in a clear and concise way. But 1776 is a great starting point for people who want to know more about the characters of our Founding Fathers, which I think is the whole point of the show - to paint them as men, not Gods, as Franklin points out.

For instance, it does bother me that Jefferson has a line about resolving to release his slaves. That's sadly not true.

Our Founding Fathers were surprisingly fascinating characters. They were each so varied in their temperaments and vices, it's kind of a miracle they accomplished anything at all.

I worked with Virginia Vestoff in a short-lived Broadway musical called BOCCACCIO. Virginia was a wonderful actress and a very sweet person. She was loved by everyone. Her early death was a real shock to the community.

Looking back at the show BOCCACCIO, I had forgotten that it had quite a cast, including Armand Assante, D'Jamin Bartlett, Michael Zaslow, and Caroline McWilliams (Mrs. Michael Keaton 1982–1990).

r47, a musical with an unpronounceable name like BOCCACCIO is bound to be short lived. And this is coming from someone with a complicated Italian last name myself.

Was Lee really a pretentious bore?

I remember seeing that show Boccaccio! Wasn't it in a theater in an old hotel or something like that?

Armand Assante and Michael Zaslow were both very hot back then.

[R50] Yes, the Edison Theatre in the Hotel Edison. The hotel's ballroom was briefly converted into a theatre in 1950/51 as the Arena, then again in 1970 as the Edison. Longest run was "Oh! Calcutta!" - 13 years. "Boccaccio" ran for 7 performances. In 1991 it was again restored to the hotel's ballroom

I love it. I play it every July 4.

"Mama, Look Sharp" is one of those songs that makes me cry like a fool every time I hear it. At 3:20-

"but my brain can't process that you actually think the piece-of-shit GREASE movie is a better adaptation than 1776."

Well, thirty five years later, and GREASE is still popular among people of all ages, and played regularly on television. Not to mention its soundtrack is one of the biggest selling albums of all time.

Meanwhile, I can't remember the last time 1776 was shown on television.

Horrible songs. Horrible play. Skipped the movie.

Had the pleasure of working with both Billy Duell (Andrew McNair, Congressional Custodian) and Scott Jarvis (Courier) - with Scott for almost two years. Billy got to do the movie version of 1776, but Scott did not reprise his role as the courier. Billy's career flourished and he went on to perform string of great character roles. Scott continued to work as an actor, but never achieved a real modicum of success after 1776. He died of AIDS in 1990.

From the **OFFICIAL** SUMMER STOCK THEATER MEMORIES /GOSSIP/DISH THREAD:

[quote]WILLIAM (BILLY) DUELL was the character actor I most admired during my time at Falmouth. I had not known his name before he arrived, but from the second I saw him, I knew who he was. I had seen him in countless TV shows from westerns to sci-fi to situation comedies. He apparently had quite a Broadway and off-Broadway track record as well. In the Lotte Lenya production of Threepenny Opera, he played Filch, the beggar. In the original Broadway production of 1776, he played Andrew McNair, the congressional custodian. He is best known for his role as Jim Sefelt in the movie of ONE FLEW OVER THE CUCKOO’S NEST. He was tiny, maybe 5’ 3”, with delicate features. Billy was real gentleman, with the emphasis on gentle. The week he played Falmouth I had a visitor – Tricia, the girl I took to my senior prom. Tricia & Billy hit it off right away, and he made it his job to escort her around and keep her busy while I worked. Tricia was enchanted with this small, older man, and she still talks about him to this day.

I was out drinking with Donald Madden (Dickinson) the night he found out that "Cool, Considerate Men" had been cut from the film (after a White House screening, Richard Nixon asked Jack Warner to cut it because it made rich Republicans look bad). The number had taken a week to shoot. Donald cried most of the night. Thank goodness it is back on the DVD.

Just watched it again on July 4. The "Cool Considerate Men" number, which was cut from the original release because Nixon didn't like it, is chilling in its truth. Nothing has changed, and the current Repugs in Congress could sing this today, and it would be just as relevant. Not much has changed, it seems.

[quote]"I have come to the conclusion that one useless man is called a disgrace. That two are called a law firm. And that three or more become a Congress."

Reading this, all kinds of names come to mind: Boehner, Cantor, Graham, Schock, McCain, Conyers, and on and on. They're all useless when it comes to looking out for the citizens of this nation.

Cabaret is the best 1970s movie which was made from a Broadway musical, followed by Fiddler on the Roof, excellent and then 1776, a good movie.

Then again, with the exceptions of the execrable Man of La Mancha, the bathetic Mame, and the thoroughly inept A Little Night Music, these were the only 1970s movies made from Broadway musicals.

I don't count Godspell (not bad) and Jacques Brel (haven't seen the movie) because they were off-Broadway musicals before they were filmed, though the former has since been performed and revived on Broadway.

But the movie version of "Cabaret" is not a musical. The Broadway show, characters break out in song moving the plot along. Fosse made a movie with music. Cutting out major characters and their songs, all the remaining songs are sung onstage at the Cabaret. Just like "Lady Sings The Blues, released the same year, is not considered a musical because all of the songs are sung on stage in performance. And "HAIR" is a completely different animal than the Broadway show.

"Grease" is best 70s musical turned into a 70s movie.

I remember that was my school's idea of teaching the revolutionary war (that and School House Rock!)

Was my first Broadway show as a kid and fell in love with theater. A few years later my parents got us all up in December darkness of morning and trekked to Radio City Music Hall and saw the first show of the day at 9:00am, RCMH's big Christmas show. Even with a half hour stretch of no songs, it's a perfect stage show and a perfect movie.

R61, Tomorrow Belongs to Me is not sung at the cabaret.

It's still a movie musical.

Cabaret is a different animal than the Broadway show also.

There's also Jesus Christ Superstar and

SONG OF NORWAY!!!

[quote]Pauline Kael hated it, and has a hilariously mean review that probably pisses off to no end the many Broadway queens here who absolutely adore the original show. She called it "a Broadway operetta featuring those lovable old codgers, the Founding Fathers."

She only saw the short version.

R65, "Tomorrow Belongs to Me" in the movie is sung at a beer garden by a Nazi youth as a rallying anthem, not unlike "God Bless America" is sung at Tea Party rallies. It's a situation where singing is realistic, not just bursting into song.

The movie CABARET borrows from Christopher Isherwood's GOODBYE TO BERLIN, John Van Druten's I AM A CAMERA, and some of the songs from the stage musical CABARET. Therefore, it's not a successful adaptation of the stage musical. The film and musical are barely alike.

Who would you cast today?

First stage musical I ever saw. Road company in Akron, Ohio in 1970 when I was 15. Still tear up recalling the end with the roll call, the bells, the scrim of the Declaration falling into place to reproduce the painting of the signing of the Declaration. MARY! LIke the movie, LOVE it on stage.

Baby Ken Howard was so handsome.

Burn Brae Dinner Theater, outside Washington DC, had a sold out run for two and a half years during the Bicentennial period. They said that nearly every member of Congress came to see it during that time.

No it was one of the worst adaptations to film of the 70s or any other time.

Trivia... The fountain that William Daniels, Howard Da Silva & Ron Holgate dance around in "The Lees of Old Virginia", is the same the cast of "Friends" dances in the credits.

r61, Cabaret, the movie, is very different than the Broadway show (and the changes were very intelligent ones for the kind of movie Fosse intended it to be and brought about brilliantly), and it is not a musical in the sense of characters who are not on stage breaking out into song (as the show was). But to say it is not a musical to engage in a semantic debate.

In any event it is unquestionably a 1970s movie of a musical.

I love Pauline Kael, but she was usually wrong-headed about musicals.

Pauline Kael did more damage to movie musicals than all the money-losing Roadshow attractions put together.

Won't somebody open up a window?

Table seven calling number nine, how are you mister? Danke fine! Sitting alone like that, you happened to catch my eye!

Kael hated The Sound Of Music and wouldn't admit that it was beautifully shot and Ernest Lehman and Robert Wise did make an effort to tone down the schmaltz.

Back to 1776: I watched it again this July 4th. I wanted Thomas Jefferson inside me quite deeply and I wanted to lick Richard Henry Lee's shitter.

Betty Lynn Buckey remarks about Virginia Vestoff in the book Nothing Like A Dame is actually funny (Buckley's never been known for getting laughs, onstage or off)-"I shared a dressing room with Virginia Vestoff and I watched her to see how she did her make up. I loved everything about her! I thought 'Ooh, she's an ACTRESS! I need to study her.' She was like, 'Why are you staring at me? Get away from me, kid!' I was so silly."

Vestoff really is wonderful in that movie.

[quote]Back to 1776: I watched it again this July 4th. I wanted Thomas Jefferson inside me quite deeply and I wanted to lick Richard Henry Lee's shitter.

Sexual fantasies about America's founding fathers. One of many things that makes DL what it is. Don't ever change.

The relationship in the movie between John Dickinson and James Wilson was positively homo-erotic. Didn't anyone else notice that?

It's a great film to re-watch every year around July 4th. Even though you know how it ends, they still build up to it every time you watch.

When they show it in the UK, does it have an alternate ending?

This is a wonderful, wonderful movie; I watch it on TCM every July 4th; have the CD of the original on Bway and the 1996 revival (with Brent Spiner.) Original is MUCH better, of course. LOVE the film!!

If the movie was so successful, why was there no "1777"? (Still waiting for "Apollo 1" through "Apollo 12.")

Are they still working on the musical about the War of 1812? It's supposed to include the attack on Baltimore and burning of the White House.

R87 The name "Hello, Dolly" is already taken.

Interesting that both William Daniels and Ken Howard went on to become elected leaders, both served terms as president of the Screen Actor's Guild.

Musicals---UGH!

Chautauqua---UGH!

I’m watching it now. Don’t know why; I loathe it. The songs are so cloying and it tries too hard.

As a kid in elementary school, we actually went to the movie theater for a field trip to watch it. Dull for kids.

The movie is a great adaptation of a crap musical.

Sit down, R92!

R92 is obnoxious and disliked.

TCM showed this last week as part of its "Mad About Musicals" online course, and now of course they're showing it again today for the Fourth.

Saw “1776” on Broadway three times, the first two in May of 1969. I was so impressed, I saw it again the next night, opting out of an opportunity to see Robert Preston and Mary Mary Martin in “I Do, I Do!”

I saw it again that November. John Cullum was strong in “Molasses to Rum to Slaves,” but the original Clifford David was chilling, a real fanatic. Paul Hecht was the original Dickinson, and very elegant. I’d seen him in the original cast of “Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead.” And I remember how William Daniels’ eyes glittered in “Does Anybody See?”

“Momma Look Sharp” was a startling change from the Congressional goings-on, a real anti-war song, and I’m sorry Scott Jarvis wasn’t in the movie. I met him in 1986, when I was newly sober. At that time he was the Maitre D’ of a restaurant in the area around Broadway and W. 72nd St. I told him how much I’d enjoyed him in “1776,” and he seemed pleased. I was sorry to hear he’d died.

I loved Virginia Vestoff, in show and film. I also managed to see her in the later “Via Galactica,” and a straight play, “Nash at Nine.” She was good in all of them. And I was very sorry to hear about her premature death.

I was shocked to see the cuts in “1776” when it played the Music Hall. It wasn’t until years later that the film was restored to its original roadshow length, for the laserdisk release, which I eagerly bought. This is the most complete version so far; it includes the overture, intermission, entr’acte, and exit music. The credits are presented against a lengthy drawing of period Philadelphia. Sadly, many cuts were taken from this, compared to the current DVD release.

Over on the Film Score Monthly website, there’s a thread about “1776” that’s been ongoing for years.