Vicious: An Eldergay sitcom

Sirena promoted this on Johnathan Ross, show I think this will be great.

"Golden Bois". I hope it's not just Virginia Woolf-type laying into each other all the time.

.

R3, what else is there to do when you're that age and gay?

They should have called it 'Dames'.

I went to the filming of the Christmas special recently - it's pretty good.

I won't miss it. I like both of them.

I can't find a page to stream it.

Anyone have any luck?

R7, if you like them, wouldn't you miss it a great deal?

Isn't there a Canadian reality show called "Golden Gays" with a similar theme set in Palm Springs?

Looks good! Originally, it was titled "Bitter Old Queens" and Joanna Lumley was going to star as well.

Yes, grammar police, you're right. Happy, now?

r8 - it hasn't starting airing yet. They only just finished filming. I don't think they've announced an air date yet.

Unless you mean a page to stream ITV in general, in which case there are some - some David Tennant fansites were passing around links to stream Broadchurch.

It was originally going to be titled "Vicious Old Queens" and when offerered to Serena he said "but I'm not old!"

Nobody delivers a line like Sir Ian. He is perfect for a comedy.

I thought we weren't allowed to use the E word.

That promo does not make me want to watch it.

Will there be any hissing? I will only watch if there's hissing.

Nasty, self-hating, gay-insulting shit. The series was originally going to be called "Vicious Old Queens" and while the TV company realised after the initial reaction to this, that it would be a bad idea, they kept the website they'd set up - try looking for viciousoldqueens with a dotcom on the end.

We don't need this hateshit. Shame on both of them for being part of it.

Is that for a heterosexual audience?

The reviews were terrible, but I just watched the first episode and thought it was hilarious. Dammit.

The reviews are uniformly negative.

As one observed: On first viewing I couldn’t understand why, in the year 2013, two gay men – Gary Janetti and Mark Ravenhill – would create a comedy about gay men who conform to almost every homophobic stereotype: bitchy, vain, melodramatic, lecherous, rude, sulky. The programme’s working title was Vicious Old Queens. It was as if Germaine Greer had created a sitcom called Dykes, about two feminists who hate men, wear dungarees and have no sense of humour.

It was absolutely dreadful, first episode aired in UK here this week. Painfully unfunny and dated. Surely the knights are more hip than that in real life, didn't they realise how unfunny and stereotyped it is?

Frances de la Tour is all wrong too as their friend, she is like something out of the 70s, from that sitcom of hers then, Rising Damp.

They should have had Joanna Lumley, and they should have been more hip and up todate, like gay men are.

The young straight guy who moves in upstairs wasnt that cute either, and behaved like a simpleton, as the 2 old queens fancy him. I just found it cringeworthy and so cliched. What a missed opportunity.

and if Frances de tour mentioned 'is Zac Efron a place or a person' once more I would have screamed! Thats the level of wit on show here.

I don't know Mark Ravenhill, but having spent more than 10 seconds with Gary Janetti, he IS "bitchy, vain, melodramatic, lecherous, rude, sulky".

As they say, write what you know.

I don't why McKellan signed on. He hardly needs the money or exposure.

Wow, if that clip is any indication what the show is like, PASS. Looks dreadful.

How disappointing that there's finally a sitcom entirely centered around gay people but the characters are thirty years out of date.

The talent were cause for hope, but then you have to remember it's on ITV. Wit pace and sophistication were never likely to survive that channel's mission to dumb down, even if such qualities were ever there at all. So far all 'Vicious' does is not offend 'Sun' or 'Express' readers.

To be fair, BBC2's effort years ago 'Gimme Gimme Gimme' was little better. Gay writer, gay star, youthful energy, 'broad comedy', minimal laughs.

I think it is wonderful to see two older gay out actors giving a glimpse into the world many lived in but few have seen so long ago.

It's a comedic museum piece. I would love to see an entire episode written in polari!

They are the equivalent of paleo-gays frozen in amber.

Polari wasn't developed enough to actually a language.

Oh, John, you are one Brit daddy I would have easily surrendered to...

Even if the comedy goes south, it was an era that I loved -- the constant bitchery of real professionals at it. True, I'm not altogether sorry the era has gone (DL is a pallid simulacrum), and life is ever so much better today. But there was a lot to admire in a generation that kept their heads up despite the hate.

British comedy is a mess, and has been for over a decade.

That being said, the public enjoys this show. The critics hate it, but it's still a success. Reminds me of the reaction "Gimme Gimme Gimme" received.

thanks to youtube, I was able to watch it. and i like it lol.

I liked the little bit that I was able to see on YouTube. Ian looks like he's having fun. Jacobi doesn't look comfortable in the role. BTW, the young guy playing Ash is also the crazy guy who pretended to help Theon in GoT, only to bring him back to the place where he was being held prisioner. He looks like a crazed Hobbit.

Well, once the acting is dialed down down a bit it will be quite watchable.

With the show down by over 2 million viewers for its second episode controversial art critic Brian Sewell says ITV’s new sitcom Vicious reminds him of a less progressive period for gay people.

Last month’s launch episode opened to 5.53 million viewers, but Monday’s second instalment recorded 3.52 million viewers – a fall of 2.01 million – however it was still the most watched show outside of the soaps for the evening.

Created by Will and Grace writer Gary Janetti and award-winning playwright Mark Ravenhill, Vicious sees Sir Ian McKellen and Sir Derek Jacobi play Freddie and Stuart, a bickering gay couple who have been together for 50 years.

Brian Sewell, who in 2011 complained of there being too many LGBT characters in British soaps, has taken the show to task in the London Evening Standard.

He wrote: “Vicious, ITV’s current attempt to make a comedy of camp old queens who have lived together for too long, is well-named. Vicious is precisely what it is — a spiteful parody that could not have been nastier had it been devised and written by a malevolent and recriminatory heterosexual.”

The 81-year-old critic continued: “The trouble for the scriptwriters was, of course, that ageing homosexuals who were never aspiring actors but tinkers, tailors, soldiers, sailors and even art critics do not behave like pantomime dames at an audition, are not an endless source of venomous barbs, are not constantly falling into limp-wristed attitudes and are not all too ready to huff and puff in pretended hurt.

“Ordinary old homosexuals, if they ever step into such caricature, do so as the self-mocking joke with which minorities defend themselves, and the duration is not half an hour but the time it takes to say ‘Get her,’ or some such nonsense.”

Sewell believes the show reminds him of a less progressive period for gay people and that the humour displayed by the characters disguises the pain of not being able to fully embrace being gay.

“Vicious is no more than a compilation of stale travesties reaching back half a century to the oppressive years when homosexuality was so much against the law that a man could not even ask the question of another man. In public it could only be lampooned — but the lampoon was something of a safety-valve, the in-joke of self-mockery with which all minorities camouflage their secret misery.”

Sewell adds: “Vicious, in reviving all the old exaggerated jokes, the posturing, the determination to be heard, may well revive the pernicious prejudices against the faggot and the poof so long familiar to men of my generation. Remember the three teenagers who kicked a man to death in Trafalgar Square.”

Is there a link for episode 2?

here?

In case you die while I'm away, I'll say good bye now...

r36- that "crazed hobbit" has a hot body:

[quote}art critics...are not an endless source of venomous barbs

Oh but you are, Brian, you are. That's why the UK art establishment has as little to do with you as possible; and why you duly "huff and puff in pretended hurt" about it in your memoirs.

where can i see episode 1

ITVPlayer

b

I loved it, I was laughing the whole time.

I liked it as well, but in my case, I actually lived that scenario. When I moved to NYC there was a older gay couple that lived in my building. The one had been involved with the theater in the 1950s and 1960s. They behaved very much like the characters in Vicious.

Ian McKellen should sit his tired, old, overrated ass down and just retire.

I still want to fuck Jacobi...

I love it! I hope it becomes bigger than Downton Abbey. The cast is adorable. It's camp, people.

In some ways it suffers from the same problem as DataLounge. Pointless bitchery without wit and charm is pointless sociopathology.

It was the wit and charm that made the oppression bearable. Jacobi has a lot of it in reserve but McKellan, I hope the writers fill his well.

If they wrote it like a geriatric "Will and Jack", now that would be funny.

Hip Hop Thursday!

I think the series is starting to find its rhythm.

"In some ways it suffers from the same problem as DataLounge. Pointless bitchery without wit and charm is pointless sociopathology."

And you fit right in, don't you, dear?

[bitchy, vain, melodramatic, lecherous, rude, sulky]

Every gay guy I know is like this - minus the lecherous part.

Episode 3 was a great improvement over the first 2.

The Job Lot right after Vicious, is very good. Hopevthey'll do a second series, and gay actor Russell Tovey (playing straight) is so cool.

I think Derek Jacobi is adorable in this. He looked so cute when they went to the club and he had all those buckles on his jacket. I met him a few weeks ago at the BAFTA TV awards and he was very nice.I would totally be his young friend with benefits.

Is Gary writing about what his life with Brad will be like in five minutes?

I liked it. It does traffic in the worst cliches, but Jacobi, McKellen, and LaTour are totally game for some reason. I think it works, but Jacobi needs to take it down a notch.

The latest, 3rd?, episode where they go clubbing (predictably to The Shadow Lounge) is actually quite funny.

I actually met McKellen out clubbing 10 years ago, in London in 2003. Friends and I were at the Vauxhall Tavern for their Duckie night on Saturday when McKellen and a party arrived, and they were next to my party. This was at the height of LOTR mania and everybody wanted to talk to him, but I kept my distance but we found ourselves next to each other at the bar, when I mentioned that I imagined all anybody wanted to talk to him about now was Gandalf, but I had got his Gods & Monsters the previous week, so we mentioned that. Later that evening our paths crossed again at Crash club, which was just across the way, where he was watching his young friends dance..

It is wonderful to be able to see how gays act in real life - campy, sex-crazed and bitchy! Millions of people around the world will love this, it is so funny - and it's REAL gay life! Get over it!

r62, now that was a gay post in which you somehow make it all about you.

You must be a beautiful launderette.

R61 I agree with you.

[quote]It is wonderful to be able to see how gays act in real life - campy, sex-crazed and bitchy! Millions of people around the world will love this, it is so funny - and it's REAL gay life! Get over it!

Well, if Datalounge is any indication, it certainly IS how gays act in real life.

That's what I've been thinking, R66. If ever there was a televised edition of the Datalounge, then Vicious is it.

Of course that means we should all hate it - I don't, I think it's kind of funny - because we don't really like gay people or gay friendly people much around here.

I saw the first episode and though with that cast I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt, it was surprisingly weak. 100% of the problem was the dopey-ass script. I agree though that Sir Derek didn't seem comfortable at all and couldn't find a groove, but Sir Ian got it.

I think the second episode was better than the first, and the third was better than the second.

Yes, it's flawed and stereotypical and broad. I like it anyway, if only to watch these three old pros chew the scenery.

This looks like it could be great. But let's hope it's not all queeny vitriol, a little of that can go very, very long way. They are very lucky to have Frances de la Tour.

Mebbe they could bring in Robbie Coltrane as he love interest?

It's not the greatest, but I enjoy it and make sure that I watch it on i-player so that my watching counts. I'd like it to get another season just because.

And I love Frances de la Tour so much.

I like it.

The clubbing episode is S1E4.

I find Jacobi's acting stretched to the limit when McKellan's character is written as the "cute one".

All one can say about Ian is the same famous quote about W. H. Auden; someone should iron out the wrinkles on his face to see what he truly looks like.

And if Vicious were a DL Production it would have been spelt Vichisssss.

It's amiable if clunky, but I enjoy the top thesps giving all they've got. Wardrobe had a ball with the boys' outfits when they went clubbing - all that mothballed piss-elegance!

Many happy returns to sir Ian.

Is there a reliable source for all episodes? I can only find episode 1 on Youtube. And on a completely opposite note, does anyone know where I can find episodes of Sky TV's The Cafe?

r78, Google

vicious mckellan jacobi S1E2

[then S1E3 and finally S1E4 and so on as they are released.]

Then click madly through all the links and EVENTUALLY you will find one that works.

That's my MO from the US.

I'll be quick because my cat is asleep and the clicking wakes him. Go to tvmuse.eu and click on tv shows. When you find Vicious, only click the episodes without the dollar sign.

Be careful. It's rare but some of those links may contain viruses.

Boy, I have been watching this online. The show is a horrible, self-loathing, cruel mess. It hasn't gotten better. I can't see this coming to the USA. Somebody with an anti-gay agenda must be funding this.

Get comfortable with torrents. Get uTorrent, install it, then go to thepiratebay.sx and search for Vicious under Video. Look at the last two columns on the right. Those two indicate how many people have the file ("seeders") and how many people are trying to download the file ("leechers"). The higher the seeder-to-leecher ratio, the faster the file will download.

Go to the episode(s) you want, then click the little magnet icon underneath it. After it finishes downloading, just click on the link in uTorrent and watch it.

The new episodes are usually posted a few hours after they air; they're always up by Tuesday morning.

R76 I agree. Lots of stereotypes but it's a treat to watch these top thespians having a bit of fun.

ITV sitcom Vicious, featuring Sir Ian McKellen and Derek Jacobi as an ageing gay couple, has been accused of peddling homosexual cliches that would make "John Inman look restrained".

Barry Cryer, the veteran comedy writer and performer, said Vicious had fallen into the trap of trying to be funny all the time rather than developing characters people could identify with.

"A sitcom with two old gays could be really good and moving. With two great actors in Sir Ian McKellen and Derek Jacobi it should be fantastic," Cryer writes in the latest Radio Times. "But it was insult, insult, insult every other line. You don't believe in them … it made John Inman look restrained."

Cryer, 78, whose credits include The Two Ronnies and The Morecambe & Wise Show, said Vicious was part of an era of "back-to-basic sitcoms" including Mrs Brown's Boys and The Wright Way which had forgotten the importance of "great characters trapped in a situation".

"It's a serious business writing comedy. You don't necessarily need funny lines all the time. The key is to create characters. Characters people can identify with. But right now we've gone back at least 30 years in terms of format," he added. "The great sitcom writers of the past didn't think jokes were remotely important."

Cryer said writers such as Ray Galton and Alan Simpson (Hancock's Half Hour, Steptoe and Son), Johnny Speight (Till Death Us Do Part) and Dick Clement and Ian La Frenais (Porridge) knew this instinctively and just wrote great characters. "It's straightforward stuff: character, character, character. You don't need jokes, you don't need funny lines. The humour will come because the secret to the truly funny sitcoms is simple – they are basically all about life."

Episode 6 wasn't half bad and the Judy Dench message machine at the end was PRICELESS!

Cancelled!

But they did film a Christmas Special.

What is with Brit TV and their damn Christmas Specials?

No! R87, say it's not true. It was great campy fun.

A final decision to commission a second series hasn't been made yet but it doesn't look good.

Broadchurch starts this Wednesday on BBC America. The first episode is already on demand.

Renewed for season 2!

[quote]Will & Grace exec producer Gary Janetti created Vicious with playwright Mark Ravenhill. When the sitcom premiered on ITV last April, it was the highest-rated comedy launch on any UK channel in 2013. The first six-part series has not run in the U.S., but I hear negotiations are underway. The second series order was announced today at the Edinburgh TV Festival. Veteran British thesps Ian McKellen and Derek Jacobi play a constantly bickering couple who’ve lived together in a small London flat for nearly 50 years. Vicious is a Brown Eyed Boy production in association with Shine’s Kudos.

This wast of McKellan and Jacobi premiers on PBS tonight.

waste...

The best part of the show is Balthazar.

I live in Little Rock and this show is on at 1:30 am, you know, so as not to offend those dear compassionate Christians.

I watched it tonight. So great and so funny! Ian and Derek were amazing.

25 minutes of a single set, and mostly insults between Jacobi and McKellen, a few of which tickled the funny bone. I can't imagine this developing any further than that unless they introduce more characters and settings (like AbFab did).

It took me a few minutes to adjust to Jacobi playing to the second (third?) balcony, but after that I found it pretty funny. McKellen is great as a hammy actor, and I loved Frances de la Tour. I can't imagine what young gays make of 25 minutes of nonstop bitchery from two old queens, but I have definitely known a few men like this.

This show makes Gimme Gimme Gimme look like Frasier.

This show is on par with 2 Broke Girls. All of the exceptions being made are strictly because it's gay and British.

Very disappointed. When they said it was called Vicious, I thought this is what they meant.

This is exactly how gays and lesbians in their 20s imagine gay men over 50. Not getting what all the hate and hysteria on this thread.

Go watch it tonight on PBS.

I thought last night's episode was funnier than the first.

Check out the third episode tonight.

They're like the geriatric British version of the Sweathogs.

They're probably mining DL for script ideas as we speak.

Frances de la Tour ("Violet") is WONDERFUL!

The first two seemed to be dull and too obvious, too stereotypical.

But it's kind of finding its footing. They need to make the characters a smidge warmer without it being too soft.

I enjoyed the last two episodes.

"You remember our friend Violet...."

I blew Ash. His cum tasted like pineapple

An interesting perspective, contrary to the pearl clutchers:

Oh for God's sake...it's all in fun, don't take it so seriously...and if you think gays young and old don't snipe like this, well then, you know nothing about gays.

Besides The great and very under rated Frances de le Tour is in it! Love her!

Stop knocking gay shows or they won't make anymore.

Good article, r112.

de la Tour steals every scene she's in.

[quote]This is exactly how gays and lesbians in their 20s imagine gay men over 50.

No, people (gay or otherwise) in their 20s don't think much at all about gay men over 50.

I thought the latest episode where they went clubbing was very funny and quite sweet.

Miss de la Tour was Fab-U-Lous when she sang the lead in Turkey-Lurkey-Time!

*not intended as a true statement

Frances de la Tour's Twitter page. She hasn't been on it since last year, but she seems like a lovely person.

That Slate article was interesting and thoughtful.

And I must find a way of working "And Quentin Crisp wept" into more conversations.

R115 speaks the truth.

The show gets better with every episode. I thought the last episode was the funniest so far.

It really is like watching Datalounge.

[quote]I live in Little Rock

I condole you.

"He gets paid to give head?"

People who like this shit and bash other shit like Two and a Half Men are hypocrites. The only difference is the accent.

It should have been set in the 1970s or early 80s.

I love how square-headed Ash was barely noticed on this show but became an object of lust to fangurls when he appeared on Game of Thrones. He's really not a very good actor and not good looking, but appearing on a popular show automatically makes him attractive to many.

PBS bleeps out all the dirty words, as if anyone cares.

Watch it online with the language unfettered.

Ian and Derek are so good. I can't believe how good they are. They make the dialogue seem like they came up with it themselves on the spot.

r129, they did...in 1945.

I don't know if this show wore me down or if it actually got better, but I was laughing out loud during the final two episodes. The finale was great. Glad it's coming back. Talk about a short season, though.

I just happened to catch this tonight thought it was very very funny. It was like watching a televised version of Datalounge.

Oh, no, R115 and R120 says that young gay boys don't think at all about older gay men. We should all kill ourselves because the young twats don't think of us!

I do believe that Freddy does use the word cunt every now and again...

I see miss R133 has some issues.

Miss R125: doesn't understand sarcasm.

Miss R136 doesn't know how to count and still very obviously has issues.

R137 doesn't have issues. She has a subscription.

R133 clearly does not get it.

Turned it off after 10 min. A complete waste of de la Tour/Jacobi/McKellen talent.

I loved the Christmas special. So hilarious yet cozy and comforting.

[quote]Get ready for biting remarks from Freddie and Stuart when the second season of Vicious returns August 23 to PBS. And don't worry, Game of Thrones' Iwan Rheon will return as cute neighbor Ash, and we're sure Violet (Harry Potter's Frances de la Tour) won't stop flirting either.

Is it currently running on the Beeb?

Sir Derek and Sir Ian have been named as Grand Marshalls for this year's gay pride parade in New York City! Maybe Patrick Stewart will be driving the car.

Vicious, which returns for a second season in the UK on June 1,

I'm amazed that Iwan Rheon does not get more attention for shifting between his role here as the sweet cute dumbcluck straight boy neighbor and the evil Ramsay on Game of Thrones.

Agreed r145.

R145, he has a very cute butt. It would be nice if we saw it when he was playing a likable character, such as the neighbor on Vicious.

Ash goes a bit Ramsey on Vicious this week. Crappy, trite episode but Ash talking to the gay trainer was funny.

It's not a first. Aaron Paul played a kind, earnest, level headed former Mormon trying to help Amanda Seyfried deal with her insane family's polygamy on Big Love while he was also appearing as druggy Jesse Pinkman on Breaking Bad.

Aaron Paul being this guy

While he was also being this guy

r149, at any time did the mormon character on Big Love act like the druggie guy on Breaking Bad? Ash, the nice guy on Vicious, went a bit Ramsey-crazy on Vicious with bits of character he plays on GOT. I know plenty of nice guys on one series, bad guy on another, but this was different. That why, in a ridiculously poorly written show, it was funny. Go watch. http://www.tubeplus.is/player/2163604/Vicious/season_2/episode_2/Episode_2/

Another problem with the Beta:

When did Derek Jacobi officially come out?

The gymnasium was particularly painful.

The wedding planner blew chunks.

I saw it and didn't find it funny. It seemed like it played on everyone stereotype that would pass for funny in the 1970s but not today. It was recorded in front of a live audience but they added a laugh track anyway. That should tell you something.

I always enjoy the show

[quote]he has a very cute butt. It would be nice if we saw it when he was playing a likable character, such as the neighbor on Vicious.

Not only will you see Ash's butt, you'll see his butt crack as he bends over and presents it to the TV audience. Linky may be stinky because it's from one of those streaming services with all the pop-ups.

AdBolckPlus gets rid of all the crap on the streaming services.

This seems really good. Won't miss it!

The New Normal's Georgia King (the sweet-natured lead) has a turn as Ash's love interest for two episodes this season. Did not know she was British! And second-generation thespian for that matter.

It's pantomime, it's fun, very silly and enjoyable. McKellen sort of apologized for his hammy overacting in the first season; he said the show is recorded before a live studio audience so, being the thespian he is, he plays/projects to the furthest seat, seemingly he forgot that the cameras pick up every tiny gesture. I don't know what his excuses are for this season.

So they get married and Ms. Bixby dies in Ash's arms and it gets another THIRD SEASON. The wedding had distinctly less ham in it. The bitchiness is toned down considerably. Mebby it'll evolve into something...good.

Crap ending to the wedding episode.

I still think Marcia Warren as Penelope is the funniest thing on the show.

And they ruined Violet's husband by showing him. Now we're stuck with the image they created rather than allowing our imaginations to run wild.

Is this the same guy that left her chained to a bed in Argentina after he robbed her?

No r166. This one is Jasper, the one who disappeared for 8 months.

Why do DLers call themselves "bitter old queens"? Seriously why?

Just finished watching the first season and I really haven't laughed out loud at a sitcom like I did in a long time. It's hard reconciling Iwan Rheon as sweet, slightly dim Ash to the psychopathic sadist Ramsay Bolton, but he makes it work.

I can imagine an American version being produced. Richard Chamberlain would be perfect as Freddie. Perhaps George Takei as Stuart. Set it in Palm Springs maybe? Logo needs to produce shows like this but I doubt Viacom will open is purse for it.

You get to his ass crack in season 2.

Not the 2015 Bump Troll, just noting that both seasons are on Tubi TV.

I do wish they'd done more.

It was slow to gel but it had a great rhythm by season 2. They really pushed Violet as the sort of comedic catalyst but their absent minded friend was the real riot.

The show had a lot more depth than people first thought. That couple had real love.

[quote] but their absent minded friend was the real riot

She wasn't absent minded. She had senile dementia.

Great comedy timing from dramatic masters.