Diana Ross: Why?

Bullcrap.

MARY!

How did she succeed?

You must be the only gay man who didn't see "Dreamgirls" OP.

Oh please, OP. You just want to hate. I think she's had nearly 20 #1 songs since she started her career, plus she has broader performance appeal.

This is my favorite of her live performances (go to the 2 minute mark).

sequins!

OP, you're just now discovering that?

She can be a little weak live, they had a lot of problems with her VH1 special because of that. It filmed into the wee hours of the morning with all the retakes, and then she wouldn't allow it to be released on dvd. But I'll still be happy to defend her voice, especially in the studio. It's extremely sweet, unusually so, and her phrasing is also very good. Some like to claim Diana is proof that Madonna wasn't the first marginally-talented superstar, but I disagree, Diana's voice is better.

[quote]She can be a little weak live

Really?????

[quote]Bitch cannot sing. Her voice is reedy, thin and flat.

That didn't stop me!

[quote] How did she succeed?

I don't know.

What I do know is that, back in the Pleistocene Era, when I was little girl and "The Supremes" were on TV, I couldn't take my eyes off of her.

It's unfair, it's maddening, it's cruel, but the reality is that in some instances "stardom" doesn't require talent.

In Ross, we have someone who had both,talent and that undefinable, elusive, thing- star quality.

I adore that old diva.

Yeah, it was her charisma... The elusive "X-factor"... that made all the difference.

Diana's voice had personality. When you heard it on disc or on the radio, you knew immediately it was hers. That quality is very important to a singer's success.

Ross was also an ambitious, opportunistic bitch. She threw Flo under the bus and was prudent to marry Berry Gordy. She was a calculating ho with minimal talent.

She didn't marry Berry Gordy. She just fucked him. Which is a part of how she became a star.

r13, are you being deliberately provocative?

Ross and Gordy never were married to each other. Her oldest child, however, is theirs.

R13

Just one of those urban myths that will never die!

Even worse, R15, she only fucked him to get to the top. I know you're a fan, but that's a class A slut. Especially the way she treated Mary and Florence.

She had a child with Berry Gordy and covered it up by suckering some random guy into marrying her and claiming it was his. It wasnt until decades later when it became obvious this daughter was not the product of a white Jewish man and was the spitting image of Berry that she admited the truth. But as far as her rise to fame it WAS her charisma that got her there. She is a marginal singer but when she ws on stage or in front of a camera she was all you could look at. Sort of like Madonna in her prime, she didnt have a shitload of real talent but boy she had star quailty in abundance. Unlike Madonna however, she was a passably good actress.

Not a good singer live, huh? When she performed live in NYC (Central Park?) back in the '80s, weren't people so enthralled they rioted? Now that's star quality!

It was reported that she used to gargle with cow urine after meeting Gandhi in India.

Flo was the better singer, but Diana had the stage presence and star quality that made the Supremes a success.

Great songs with great musicians and great production values.

Few performers can mesmerize an audience like she can.

Funny, I recently saw "Motown The Musical" and one scene of the play is a Diana Ross concert. The actress had Miss Ross down to the "i's" and the "t's" She was so convincingly Ross, err.. Miss Ross, pardon me, that the play was stopped and the actress did an encore.

LOOK AT THAT DRESS!

She always could work a ball gown!

The audience... just putty in her hands.

Diana was also doing most of the work in the studio, as the backgrounds were being recorded by other singers. Mary and Flo didn't attend those recording sessions.

Yet they got royalties for songs they never sang on.

Mary still accepts checks for songs she absolutely nothing to do with.

She was my first and always diva discovered when I was 10 years old in 1965...i hear a symphony....never forgot the moment I heard it in my uncle's car....my first album was supremes live at the copa...my obsession culminated in front mezzanine seats when she played the Palace in 1976 or '77....so glamorous, gorgeous, and a voice that ( in my opinion describes it perfectly) was described as Nicotine and Velvet...

It was definitely her charisma and the magic of Holland-Dozier-Holland producing The Supremes in the 60s. Diana also had a very unique sound that set her apart from other singers.

And R25, you are wrong about Mary and Flo not being on the backgrounds. For all of their releases up until July 1967, they were on the records, albeit sometimes supplemented by one or all of the Andantes, Motown's in-house background singers.

After Flo and H-D-H left Motown, the new producers often recorded with just Diane, but that was more of a function of their schedule and Berry not wanting to fly Mary and Cindy in just to do background vocals.

Like so many acts from the 1950s, 1960s, it was just all hype. The Supremes were amazing together but solo Diana was dull as dishwater. Very little of her solo stands up to what she did with The Supremes. The glow from her glory days during the 1960s kept people interested in the 1970s and early 80s but that's it.

In this clip, at the 1:53 mark, Diana grabs a falling right earring so discreetly it's awesome. She could never top this iconic performance on Ed Sullivan.

I love that clip, R28, and the earring snag is EVERYTHING!

I don't agree it was all hype. By 1969, The Supremes were headed down as their recordings were no longer competing well and it was time for Diana to leave. She left and became not only a very successful solo artist, but a movie star with her very first role. In 1980, she left Motown after four huge successive hits for a $20 million deal with RCA.

It's true her relevance in the US as far as hits go declined substantially after 1985, but she continued to chart worldwide in the UK and Japan with her EMI releases. Today she still rakes in the big bucks on the concert trail worldwide.

Were you alive during the Seventies [R28}? I was. Diana was one of the most successful female recording stars, if not the most successful, of the Seventies. She had a string of hit singles and albums throughout that decade. Nobody had a better run during those years than she did.

[quote]....my first album was supremes live at the copa...

At the end is Florence Ballard. She's the quiet one.

(That's what you think, honey)

In the middle is Miss Mary Wilson. She's the sexy one.

My name is Diane Ross....

Diane and the girls singing other people's songs - and even singing "Stop In The Name Of Love" in someone else's key.

But they end it with one of the most glamourous - and funniest (see Flo at 9:30) - renditions of "Back In My Arms Again"

Diana's voice is fine. She's not a gospel/soul bellower like Aretha and those dames, but she's fine. Her voice was beautifully suited to pop music and in the 60s she didn't scare white people.

"I'm in love again", a beautiful song which was the B side of "Stop in the name of love" features The Andantes with Mary and Flo.

Oh stop. She's a great singer. She's had gold and platinum songs/albums. She was a fantastic stage performer in her day, too. Millions flocked to see her.

Yeah, there are some sordid things, such as screwing the Motown president and founder and having an illegitimate baby by him while he was married to another woman. And yeah, Diana is ambitious.

Quit judging. She had a lovely beautiful voice that entertained people who loved her, and she is a GAY ICON especially for drag performers.

I wish the meanness would stop against gay icons here by certain unhappy, shut-in, unsexed guys. Just because you've made your life miserable doesn't give license to go after beloved gay icons. Fuck up and plant a flower garden.

Diane's timbre of voice defined/established a sound that all girls that wanted pop success in the mid sixties were forced to emulate. That, and the untangible it/charisma, is what makes a star. Glamour, outfits, production quality, they all help - but that comes later.

In the early sixties, all girls had to sound practically like children, ie like Frankie Lymon (Ronnie Spector, Arlene Smith of the Chantels, Shirley from the Shirelles, Darlene Love, Lala Brooks from the Crystals, etc).

Then came Diane and added sex to her cooing soprano, and a new sound was born. So all soulful divas were encouraged to tone it down to pillow-talk levels, and the likes of Dionne, Marvelettes (changing from Gladys to Wanda for a softer sound), Petula Clark, a smooth Lulu, even Martha Reeves found pop success cooing and ooing. This lasted well into the seventies, when the first disco divas (Carol Douglass, Gloria Gaynor, The Three Degrees, First Choice, Sylvia) were still being restrained vocally to produce a more malleable sound.

Even Donna Summer started just using her falsetto as instructed by Giorgio Moroder. Yes there were Aretha and Gladys, but they were considered R&B, not pop (the charts don't lie). Then Paul Jabara arranged Last Dance for Miss Summer and allowed her to "belt out, LaDonna!" And a new sound was born (emulated by Laurie Brannigan, Irene Cara, Pointer Sisters, Cindy Lauper, et al).

Then some helium voiced slutty kitten with phenomenal seductive powers and controversial presentation by the name of Madonna hit the scene, and through the 80's and 90's, if you weren't light, wispy, almost chipmunk-like vocally, and could dance a lot (Janet, Suzy Q, Bananarama, Spice Girls, Britney, etc) you didn't even bother knocking on doors.

Her voice matured and sounded better over time. Here's an example of her inability to sing (live).

You guys will always rejoice in the piling on negativity and tearing someone down over the hint of the truth. Diana Ross had a big, great career for her era as a black entertainer. And most amazing to me is the remarkable job she did as a mother of 5 children who are good kids and who seem to adore her.

I like her obviously.

Agree with r36.

And regardless of her real-life antics and diva shennanigans (though she is reputed to be a wonderful mother), when she was on stage, you truly believed she loved each and every person in that audience.

That clip posted with the little kid was precious.

There's also the clip of some deranged fan in France who went after her a bit aggressively, grabbing her and almost knocking her over. Her first instinct was to bite (the girl from the projects took over!).

She then brought him up, apologized, and gave him a big hug, even though the guy had been clearly out of line.

Beats me, OP. The cock-eyed heifer and her backup Marys were always dirt hogs to me.

I had no idea she had five children.

Isn't one of them marrying Ashlee Simpson (ick)?

r38's video does not exist, but for a raw Diane, here's "You Bring Back Memories"- from 'Meet The Supremes', featuring The No-Hit Supremes, as they were then known.

She came a long way.

Good post, R37

[quote]But I'll still be happy to defend her voice, especially in the studio. It's extremely sweet, unusually so, and her phrasing is also very good.

She learned from the best. Gordy used to have her sing to Brenda Holloway guide vocals.

Diana's reedy baby voice really set the blueprint for Madonna and Janet Jackson and by virtue of her girl group leader position, Beyoncé. Diana possesses more style and grace than her understudies though. She has the best female Superbowl Halftime show, and she also has an Oscar-worthy performance with Lady Sings the Blues which we can't say for the others.

Brenda Holloway was one of those rare Motown gems who was also a musician and songwriter. She penned "You Made Me So Very Happy" and though she found only mild success with it (no doubt Berry put a block on it, as she wasn't Diana), later Blood Sweat and Tears covered it into a monster hit.

I was in the audience once and she sang a ballad while looking me in the eye. It was bizarre. I'd heard that she will pick one person out and focus on that person when she sings...It freaked me out a little, plus made me feel special. She had me locked in her headlights and I didn't want to turn away because I was afraid she'd lose her place.

Don't know if I've told this here before but I went to a Diana Ross concert at the Forum in LA way back when, and she was doing that "Reach Out and Touch" song where she asks the audience to stand up and hold hands with the person next to you. Ugh. I hate doing that. Anyway, so we're all swaying back and forth and she's out in the audience during a long intro saying, "Come on everybody, reach out and touch your neighbor." But then people in the audience started reaching for her and she said, "Don't touch me, please, please, my security gets nervous." So Lady Di starts walking down to the stage and in the second row a guy reaches out and grabs her left butt cheek and clenches it. She swings around, furious, only to realize it's the actor, Don Johnson. She turned that frown upside down in a split second and said, "Don Johnson...Don Johnson everybody!" It was a hysterical moment.

Well, how would you feel if some unknown just grabbed your ass, and squeezed it? ...hmm, never mind.

R27 Mary is still cashing royalty checks for recording she never sang on!

...and you ask, Diana Ross: Why???

I remember seeing this particular show at Radio City Music Hall. The audience went wild with excitement when she stepped through that screen!

Does anyone else remember when "Diana Ross at Radio City Music Hall" in October was a major social event that had to be attended? It ranked up there with the season openings of the Opera and Dance performances. Full page New York Times Ads. People really dressing up on the first night.... A lot of good memories.

So what, R49? Mary and Cindy were on "I'm Gonna Make You Love Me" with the Tempts. They weren't on "Love Child", "I'm Livin' in Shame" or "Someday We'll Be Together", but those songs were released as Supremes records, so they were paid for the sales.

And Mary no longer receives much in way of royalties. As with all artists from that era, the digital revolution means far less money in their pockets as the rates paid to the artists for downloads are peanuts compared to record sales.

She was on EST before Cheyenne was born.

One of my favorite Motown songs, recorded when Miss Ross and Marvin were at the top of their respective careers.

I read somewhere where Diana and Marvin got in a big fight when recording this album. Marvin was smoking copius amounts of pot during the sessions and Diana was pregnant at the time. Diana was rightfully pissed at all the smoke she was inhaling. Any truth to this?

Is her voice powerful? No. Was it passionate? No. But was the tone exceptional? Yes. Honestly, at her peak, she was capable of producing a gorgeous sound. Michael imitated her voice in his music.

[quote]Is her voice powerful? No. Was it passionate? No. But was the tone exceptional? Yes.

I agree. She had a pure sound to her voice. I think it was the right decision to put her at the front. I mean besides her sleeping with Gordy and all that, I think it was a good business decision for him.

I should have her talent.

And her material.

I saw the Supremes in 1967 (with Cindy Birdsong). LOVED them!! Diana was not only a goddess; afterwards, she gave her autograph to three crazy teens who actually blocked their car at the Fair's exit! (We got Cindy's and Mary's before the show when they came out back to the fence we were hanging at).

She is a fantastic singer. Pure is the word I would use to describe her sound. Well said! And that's right, she's better and more natural than Beyonce's forced delivery.

From The Wiz, also Brand New Day---you can hear Diana's voice over all the others and it's still commanding, even without belting.

She could kill the slow songs. She has the definitive pop voice. Listen to Missing You or If We Hold On Together. Gorgeous. Pure.

She has great interpretive skills and a great voice to deliver a song to make it her own.

Those old divas all had personality and just knew how to stand on a stage and sing a song.

Beyonce had a great voice in the early years of her career, but she lost it pretty quickly. Problem with Beyonce is also that she doesn't have personality. Singing divas that became major stars died with Whitney unfortunately.

Only naïve people equate loud passionate belting with "good singing". Diana Ross has a fine pop voice--tone and phrasing are her strengths as well as showmanship on stage.

The Andantes can be found all over Ross era Supremes recordings, not just post HDH. Sometimes they augmented Mary and Flo/Cindy, other times in place such as The Supremes 1965 Xmas album. But The Andantes also augmented and replaced The Vandellas, The Marvelettes and The Velvelettes on their recordings as well. Not because the girls couldn't sing; it's because The Andantes were trained and could finish their back parts in one take and Motown had an assembly line approach to record making. Also the pop music recording business has never been an industry known for its high ethics and integrity--consumer fraud, expediency and making money are the ruling ethics.

Early Supremes at probably their worst.

The song features rough background vocals and a very screechy, nasal Diane Ross, unable to hit the low notes, accompanied by a runaway flute.

This recording goes back to the days when there were still four of them and, having recently switched their names from the Primettes to the Supremes, they all sang back-up in their recordings. It is so raw, it sounds like an uncentered 45 (remember those?- when you didn't have a thingy in the middle hole and you simply winged it, leaving the needle to swing back and forth, making the song sound drunk?)

Of this song, Mary Wilson said that while recording the part where they sing "My life (my life) all my love (my love)", second alto Barbara Martin was so off-key, she made a funny face and they all burst out laughing.

Then again, back then, that was the R&B sound girl groups were looking for (see Please Mr. Postman, The Loco-motion, and anything by the Chantels or the Cookies).

They ALL came a long way (except Ms. Martin, who must still be in some Detroit bar telling anyone who will listen how she used to be a Supreme).

Add Brenda from The Exciters to the list of Pop female singers who hollered like Frankie Lymon.

Diane changed all of that. And female pop went soft, pretty, and melodic.

And then, with the exception of a fistful of AOR (Barbra/Vicki), R&B (Aretha/Gladys) and Rock (Janis/Tina) artists, you didn't hear belting voices in Female Pop until the screaming divas of the 80's/90's - thanks in part to the aforementioned Babs, Jennifer Holiday's one song, and shows like Star Search. And anyway they had a more adult following (Whitney, Mariah, Celine, et al)

R37,Donna Summer influenced Madonna too.

R63 the video is blocked

r66 I don't have any problem with it.

If you're showing that white screen with thecircle, you need to re-boot. You-tube does that a lot.

If you're showing snowy screen with a message saying the video can't be played, you need to update your Adobe flash player.

In any case, you can just simply do a search for Supremes Who's Loving You

Don't be so damn jealous, OP! You will never be her.

[quote]Even Donna Summer started just using her falsetto as instructed by Giorgio Moroder. Yes there were Aretha and Gladys, but they were considered R&B, not pop (the charts don't lie). Then Paul Jabara arranged Last Dance for Miss Summer and allowed her to "belt out, LaDonna!" And a new sound was born (emulated by Laurie Brannigan, Irene Cara, Pointer Sisters, Cindy Lauper, et al).

That's when Donna Summer's career started to begin, no one realized that Donna Summer can really sing, and she proved that she had a great singing voice. RIP Donna...

Diana ain't thinking about you OP.

I always thought "Touch Me In The Morning" and "I Hear A Symphony" were Diana Ross's great vocal performance on vinyl.

Those are excellent choices r71, but in my opinion there are many more.

The irony about TMITM was that she was very tired and reluctant at the time she recorded it.

Voice is weak but she had great songs.

That's fun story you're trying to peddle about Ross changing things towards a restrained light sound, but take Miss Warwick, for instance: she had her first big hit in 1962 while the Supremes were still the "No Hit Supremes". In fact, one of the first live recordings issued by the Supremes included a reading of "Anyone Who Had a Heart".

I'm not suggesting Warwick influenced Ross, necessarily, rather that Ross did not pioneer the style for which she's known.

There's plenty of other black singers with a cool style I could name (e.g. Barbara Lewis, Nancy Wilson). Even at her own label, Ross' predecessor as the Queen of Motown, Mary Wells, had perfected a cool, elegant vocal style (My Guy, for instance, is worlds apart vocally from Bye Bye Baby), even if her voice was considerably deeper.

She was trained to sing for albums and radio, she didn't start out shouting her way through church services like most of the ladies you admire OP.

Diana's voice was a weapon of mass destruction in the 60s. In those days, the car and transistor radios were the dominant channel of the time and her voice, combined with the incredible HDH material and Motown production, made The Supremes and Motown an international success.

On top of that, she was and is an incredibly talented stage performer and entertainer. She made history and broke many barriers for black artists.

Supremes, Supremes, SUPREMES!!!

Bitches, don't you know that I have been a soloist far much longer than when I was with those girls! This thread is about me, me, ME, and NOT those damn Supremes.

In the early days she had quite a distinct and lovely voice. Maybe technically not a great singer, but interesting in the way Billie Holiday was.

Not sure how well it's help up though.

[quote]Then Paul Jabara arranged Last Dance for Miss Summer and allowed her to "belt out, LaDonna!" And a new sound was born

Not exactly--"Black Lady" on I Remember Yesterday was a pretty formidable bit of belting prior to "Last Dance."

R71. Michael Masser said he had to piece "Touch me in the morning" together literally line by line from many takes. (You can hear this in the song). Yes, it's true Miss Ross and Marvin did not record the LP together after the first session. Marvin was smoking weed, Diana was pregnant AND Marvin was singing circles around Miss Ross. The album was recorded with them singing their parts separately and spliced together. I have always favored the soulful records of Martha and the Vandellas to the more pop of the Supremes.

I always find it interesting this need for some to bash Diana Ross and her success. Jealous much? Are there better singers? Of course there are, but that is not why she has been quite successful, and still so! Ross really is a consummate performer and has worked very hard to get to where she is. Do you think that simply fucking Berry Gordy was enough to sustain her all of these years?

Whilst the other girls are resting their tired feet, struggling to pay the bills, and doing projects that should be beneath them i.e. Dionne Warwick, and Gladys Knight, Miss Ross is touring the world, and PACKING venues!!! This from a 70 year old gal!

People still go on and on about Mary, Flo, and fucking Berry. These things happened many decades ago, and probably Diane, or Mary, even remember why they had disagreements. Remember, these people can collect their Social Security checks.

She has received her Kennedy Honor, she is QUITE wealthy, her music continues to be played. she is internationally known, etc! All of this alone should command a certain level of respect from all of us.

She has sustained (and is sustaining) in the music industry for a very long time, and it seems that she will continue doing so.

Gladys Knight is not struggling to pay her bills. She continues to perform and tour around the world, just like Miss Ross does, and is very successful at maintaining her earning level.

Dionne has a back tax problem that forced her to file bankruptcy to get the IRS to settle the penalties and interest, but she is also able to tour and perform, albeit not quite at the same level as Gladys or Diane.

I've always loved Dianna Ross's voice and music.

The Andantes were powerful singers, they made records like Love Child and Reflections. You can hear their isolated backing vocals from these songs on You Tube and hear how amazing they were.

They seemed to be toned down in the final mixes to keep Ross's thinner lead track front and center.

[quote] Dionne has a back tax problem that forced her to file bankruptcy to get the IRS to settle the penalties and interest, but she is also able to tour and perform, albeit not quite at the same level as Gladys

Gladys Knight is not bigger internationally than Dionne Warwick. She's not bigger anywhere.

@R82. that's why she's doing a reality show? Oh! she doesn't want it to be called a reality show...

My saying that Ross put the smooth vocal styles on the map and defined a pop vocal sound does not preclude that there were others before her.

It's just that Ross was the one who hit it big with that sound and her whole package and presentation popularized it. Plus she had a readily identifiable voice, which is more than Mary Wells, Nancy Wilson, or even Dionne Warwick, with her switch from a screeching Don't Make Me Over to a smooth Walk On By, can say.

Madonna did not invent vogueing either, we know.

None of the big names in pop music were pioneers of anything. From Michael Jackson to Elvis Presley, from Sinatra to The Beatles, from The Supremes to Madonna, you can always find acts that executed beforehand whatever phenomenon these megastars became known for.

But it was these stars who took that quality full spin, 'round the world, be it because of their drive, looks, charisma, talent, pitch, sensuality - whatever.

And Diana Ross was one of those lucky bitches with that fairy dust many call "it".

[quote]Not exactly--"Black Lady" on I Remember Yesterday was a pretty formidable bit of belting prior to "Last Dance."

"Black Lsdy" was not released as a single.

You are right, though. Even before, there were bits of "Could It Be Magic" and "Try Me I Know We Can Make It" where Donna showcased her lowr chest voice. It's just that "Last Dance" was the first full out production of hers to be done completely in that style and released with the purpose of becoming a chart climbing pop single.

[quote]They seemed to be toned down in the final mixes to keep Ross's thinner lead track front and center.

How shocking that the backup singers were toned down! There must be a conspiracy afoot when the lead singer is the featured one!

She can't really sing. End of story.

Come sit by me, R91.

[quote] even Dionne Warwick, with her switch from a screeching Don't Make Me Over to a smooth Walk On By

Are you suggesting that listeners were unable to tell that it was the same singer on these two hits? Dionne Warwick's signature vocal sound was present from her debut single. As has been stated, that's something that can't even be said for Ross, who was very shrill and nasal - though she learned quickly.

The proof of your argument might be found in how many singers cite Diana Ross as a vocal influence. I'd suggest that it's a lot fewer than those who cite her as a career influence (fashion! movies! weaves!).

R93 Madonna,

Mariah Carey,

Erykah Badu,

Beyonce

Anita Baker

Monica

Jennifer Lopez

All have cited Diana as a major vocal influence.

Even Aretha gives Diana major props. She's loved several of Diana's songs so much that she's covered them.

r94

Could you post quotes?

R95 As soon as you find me the quotes where today's current stars (or any of the ones I mentioned) have praised Dionne Warwick AT ALL.

And no Whitney quotes, please. Someone who isn't related would be nice.

[quote] "It takes us three generations to build a WHITNEY HOUSTON - ARETHA FRANKLIN, CISSY HOUSTON,DIONNE WARWICK, on up to our Whitney."

That's merely reiterating that Dionne was Whitney's cousin.

Come with something better. And try not to take so long this time.

[quote]Even Aretha gives Diana major props. She's loved several of Diana's songs so much that she's covered them.

Because she knew that she could do a better job...

Do the Janbots descend from the Dianabots?

Here's a quote from one of the names you cited. I don't know her.

[quote] Ms.Dionne Warwick certainly deserves this honor, Shes a living legend & was a pillar of strength for me at a difficult time!!Congrats Ms.D

One of my favorite songs, and performances.

She was rather outclassed by Marvin Gaye on their duets album, but they sound great together here, from later in the decade

I often wonder how that screamer succeeded by the name of Barbara Streisand..she cannot really sing quietly has to scream, scream. She obviously has a screaming admirer by the name of Celine Dion.

it helped her career to have her first child via Berry Gordy

She had her first child around 1971 - her career was long established by then.

Berry Gordy fucked plenty of Motown women. Ross succeeded because of her maketability and compliancy.

It did not help to have her 1st child out-of-wedlock from an affair with Gordy, it could have very well derailed her career permanently had it been known at the time. It was the very early 70s and people were still squeamish about that kind of thing; being black and a single female would have also made the fallout worse. She would have never had a film career for example.

Gordy I think was married at the time as well. It made sense to cover it up.

Hell I tried to get with Gordy but he said I smelled bad.

Doesn't she like to drink and drive in Phoenix?

Diana Ross had a very pretty voice, with a silvery quality to it. Yes it was thin and reedy, but she improved her singing and developed her lower range and sang with more power and funky dynamics in the seventies and eighties.

What is most striking about her voice is the great rhythmic quality to her singing. It could be wonderfully syncopated or behind the beat funky jazz or elongated in very pretty ballads. You can't teach that.

Diana Ross has an instantly recognizable voice, and her music of the sixties, seventies and eighties is some of the best female pop music ever recorded. She has never won a Grammy, in any competitive category. Gladys and Aretha and Ronnie and Martha and Darlene and Dionne and to some even Patti are thought of as her better contemporaries. I like them all but Labelle, but even she likes Diana. Ross could not and did not sing like any of them. That much is true.

She really can't be compared that way. Her voice quality is much more liquid and delicate but not lacking in power or clarity. Very unique and a very pretty voice. She became a good and tasteful singer, with great exclamations and wonderful rhythm, but she is not primarily a gospel or R&B singer. She sings more like Dinah Washington or even Peggy Lee.

Diane could sing Dylan or Broadway or the American Songbook. If you don't like her voice, that is fine. But don't compare her to Janet Jackson. Michael Jackson is more like it. Diana Ross not only deserved to be in front of the Supremes, she did much better without them.

She is among the great singers of pop music and a lot of her music is close to timeless. Warwick was a great stylist, but that style has passed. Diana's unique beat always sounds fresh. Some of her ballads are dreary, but she sang em pretty. She deserves way more respect than she gets.

[quote]The irony about TMITM was that she was very tired and reluctant at the time she recorded it.

No kidding? I had no idea, and would never have thought that.

Her Jazzy live album from the early 90s is a disappointment. It's better than Dionne's standards album, though.

I always admired Diana. She was the epitome of diva. Her fashion, her style, her pop voice. I saw her recently at Oprah's Legends Ball and we bonded, as always. But I didn't want that reputation (and I think she wanted my success). I sold out the stadiums like the Rolling Stones, the first woman ever to do so. I've sold more concert tickets than any solo performer, won 9 Grammys, and have the best comeback story in music. So, what's love got to do with it?

R112

Tina, you are in another stratosphere. You don't get compared to anybody but Joplin and Jagger. Nobody trying to say you are nothing Ms. Turner, cuz you are the history of Nutbush, the pride of performance, the voice of the soul and the hot body of stadium rock and roll. You are the greatest comeback story of anyone in music history. You are legend. You got more people to see you at one time than anyone before or since. You beat Springsteen, the Stones and Madonna. You whipped everyone's ass. You took a hard road there and it was mostly true.

But you wanted it that way and not everyone gets that. You got out when Ike couldn't help you no more and the Holiday Inn showed you the way out. It started to hurt then. You is good and you is great and you is special. You can afford to be kind. Present the pretty is what you say, then show em what you got.

Got2Breal couldn't include you because you are different from the rest and you talk foreign. Not all black lady singers are the same Ms. Tina, but you already know that. You are one of the greatest singers of all time, with some of the worst hits. Diana is weaker, but her catalogue is heavy.

Diana did raise her babies up well, and she sure was pretty. She sang pretty too. Diana is a lady. No man gonna beat on Diana. She sings of heartbreak and playful street pain and sexual liberation. You was grown at 17 years old Tina. It's all sex and soul and rock and roll for clean living Tina. You had a no good mother and you loved yourself more than your own children. You did lots of coke too Tina. Don't lie.

Diana has her illusions and you have your wine. Diana felt entitled to any man she wanted, you coveted white men like Jagger needs models. You slugged it out Tina. No one gonna knock you. You are the champ.

Janis Joplin loved you and that is good enough for me. She called Ike, your "bandleader", ahem. We can tell how she felt about that. Tina was the show.

This thread is about DIANA. Y'all and all y'all polarize DL with constant discussion of these legends. People hardly ever state the most controversial truth - Aretha is the most over rated singer of her time.

Aretha receives plenty of shade at LSA.

She's a fine singer within her limits. One of the great vocal powers of the world? No. But, generally great for the material she was given.

Tina never was the song stylist Diana was. Her voice is rather inferior to the great divas like Aretha, Donna, Dionne or Diana. I always loved Diana's voice. R109 is spot on!

Everything 2014 Miss Ross wishes she was

Why do birds sing so homosexual

And why is anal ineffectual

Why you think it hurted

Why does the sky fall from up above

Why do gays think anal's love

Why are they so perverted

She never talked that religious hypocritic BS that Dionne, Cissy, Whitney or Patti did. Very much liked that about her. Very fine singer BTW!

My $18.00 DL subscription is soooo worth it when it comes to threads like this. Hell,I'd pay it for this thread alone.

Forgive me for this Mary Frau moment but, if ever I marry again, I'll have the poor taste to have a big wedding and this will be our first dance.

You're all invited!

I know she is not exactly the nicest person, but I saw an interview with her four kids about ten years ago. It might have been all smoke and mirrors, but they seemed to be a close family.

Singing wise - I agree with most of the posts, not a strong voice, but with the right song she was great and she knew how to use what she had. I read a less than flattering article about her (I think shortly after Mary's book). It did give her some kudos, and one of those was always coming to the studio knowing her stuff. The other was she was not as heartless in regards to Flo as Mary paints (and may have tried to do more than Mary herself).

R116, no fucking way. Tina is probably the most passionate singer in rock history. You felt her pain and knew she was singing of her past and her experiences. It was triumphant, really, to hear her live. Simply the best! Those bitches you mentioned can't hold a candle next to Tina...and Aretha, she can't even fill civic centers these days.

Tina can sing anything. She is a stylist---she sang jazz for Herbie (and won a Grammy), sang Game of Love better than Michelle Branch for Santana, did country, pop/contemporary, rock, r&b. Really, she could make any song work...it's just too bad she didn't have better hit songs, that's the only thing I'd criticize. But she wasn't a songwriter like Stevie Nicks, for instance, who at her peak should be in the same club as the best.

Look at the song "He Lives in You" from The Lion King musical.

Covered by both Diana + Tina. Whose voice really sells the meaning of the song? It's a good comparison, really.

Diana Ross version, "He Lives in You"

I actually prefer Diana Ross' version of He Lives in You. Tina has more voice, but Diana's has better production and arrangement and her vocal tells the story better than Tina's IMO. This is probably the best song on Diana's 1999 album Every Day is a New Day, an otherwise mediocre album in which she's trying to gamely keep up with the late 90s r and b/pop singers.

Not bad for a 69/70 year old that pulls down, at minimum, $250K/performance!

I'll be shallow... the extra weight she has put on doesn't look good, but hey! she's a senior citizen and earned that right to eat whatever she wants.

We can all sit here and go on about how she stunk but it is undeniable that she was a huge superstar. And really no one can be that huge, no matter who is helping them, without having a massive amount of audience appeal. She had that-lots of it. So go ahead and say she had no talent bitches, but she was a STAR.

Her career went down the drain in the 90's when she started doing all that adult contemporary shit that all sounded the same. If she had been smart, she would have went down the Cher route of doing full-out dance albums since gays were pretty much her only audience left. Instead she just released a few dance singles: "Take Me Higher", that awful "I Will Survive" remake, and a remix of "Not Over You Yet".

This year must be an anniversary - didn't the Supremes star getting no. 1s in 1964? I wonder if she'll do another album. She seems to have lost any wish to be a recording artist.

Diana's voice is thinner than Darfur orphans.

[quote] Diana Ross: Why?

BECAUSE!!!

(listen to the queen at the end who loves her hair)

Mahogany!

Lots of utter nonsense. Warwick had a combination of gospel and classical training. Ross had neither--she and most of the Motown acts often have been cited as examples of non-churchy Black singing from that era and showing the influence of public school music programs.

She doesn't have a great voice in the Ella Fitzgerald sense or even compared with a good, but not outstanding pop singer like Nancy Wilson. She was good at putting over great pop songs that were stylishly produced. The later Supremes work seems overproduced and she sang w/o the other Supremes on some of their later songs. Mary and Cindy may not have sung (ironically) on the recording of "Some Day We'll Be Together", but they did perform the song on tour and, in other ways, could be said to have some ownership.

Ross went through a period where she did short sets and no encores. She's always been a diva and her affair with Gordy did much to advance her career. Mary Wells had more range and Martha Reeves and the Vandellas hit their stride contemporary with the Supremes, but Diana got all the breaks.

Bitch wonders why her career ended in the 1985...she claimed the flash from a little cellphone was distracting her performance. Really?

She had huge charisma and really came alive onstage and onscreen. Plus she was pretty.

[quote] .....or even compared with a good, but not outstanding pop singer like Nancy Wilson.

You lost me here, R131 . Nancy Wilson is in fact Outstanding & one of the greats! I agree with everything else you typed.

It's the HAIR, that's her schtick. And the Diva attitude. The gays eat it all up. Her singing is meh.

She blew Gordy Berry.

She was amazing live, a real old school singer. She also had no use for BS black church hypocrisy. Always loved that about her.

Diane got a career because she knew how to say "oh Berry, it's so big!"

[quote] Aretha receives plenty of shade at LSA.

That fat thing would NEED plenty of shade.

I'm not a fan of Diana's. But she had ambition. Mary did not and Flo's issues (she never really got over being raped) did her in. I like some of Diana's songs but, just like Janet, I can think of at least a dozen singers who could sing them better

We need that Beyonce person to weigh in on this...

[quote] She sings more like Dinah Washington

Bitch, get real! Diana Ross sings nothing like Dinah Washington. Dinah Washington was the precursor to soul music and was an R&B pioneer. Her belting, raspy assertiveness, salty humor and twangy phrasing can all be traced back to her blues and gospel roots (she started singing in the church just like all the greats in soul music). There's a reason why Aretha Franklin named Dinah Washington as one of her biggest influences and recorded a tribute album to her.

You would have more credibility had you compared Diana Ross' singing to the great Ethel Waters. Now THAT makes more sense than Dinah Washington.

Diana Ross was like the black Britney Spears/Madonna of her time. Ok-ish voice, good catchy tunes. She's no great voice like Whitney.

[quote]Warwick had a combination of gospel and classical training.

And I negated it.

For those of you who have not seen it, and if you have an opportunity, go see "MOTOWN--The Musical"!!! The girl who plays Diana Ross is SPOT ON!!! She NAILS Diana Ross in concert!

Some are still going on about Diana sleeping with Berry. Children... when are y'all going to accept the fact that a couple of fucks doesn't give one, or sustain a 50 year career. Like her, or not, Diana Ross is talented.

At 5:58 is Diana Ross singing gospel "99 1/2" I believe her grandfather was a preacher...

[quote]Diana Ross was like the black Britney Spears/Madonna of her time.

Nah, honey... Britney can't do this. MAYBE... Madonna.

First of all, Diana Ross could still teach all the rest including Byon how to be a STAR! (get it Mary) and the rest. She surly has handled herself in such a Prof way raising such a beautiful family, and gave all Black Girls a reason to lift up there heads up and be proud of who they are. She is far better then any of the rest of the blonds in the world of SHOW. From Madonna and the Britneys of the world. Diana doesn't have to slap her ass or bump and grind like a slut to get attention. Best of Luck to Diana and her children , A well done and beautful job Diana, Congratulation

Give me the honey tones of Nancy Wilson any day !

R146 you got me there. Thanks.

I agree r7 the video at r4 is a perfect example of that. Her voice was not strong but it has/had a smooth sweet quality to it. Her phrasing was perfect. She knew how to use her voice. That coupled with the something extra she possesses just being Diana is what made her a super star.

The difficult thing about watching so many on reality tv try to be singers is none of the seem to understand their own voices and none of them seem to understand the huge role phrasing plays in singing a song in a way that blows people away.

Someone up thread said it, audience appeal. No matter how good you are if you don't have the IT factor you ain't goin no where. And Diana had IT.

[quote]The difficult thing about watching so many on reality tv try to be singers is none of the seem to understand their own voices and none of them seem to understand the huge role phrasing plays in singing a song in a way that blows people away.

It starts with a beautiful lyric, and song. Then it's the arrangement, and finally the singers ability to tell the story. The latter is something that many singers of today don't get. Ross gets that--especially in her music after Motown.

I'll give two examples (in my opinion) that showcase it. In the first example, the song was specifically written for the artist. That gal TAUGHT A LESSON the night she sang it! You can go on YouTube and find others who perform it, but I've only seen one other who hit the mark.

Second example;

Everyone under the sun has done a rendition of this song,(Imagine being the songwriter), but this rendition hit it out of the park! In my book, it's the original, and this is number two!

The first time I heard her, it was on an "oldies" radio station through a crappy little portable radio, in 1986. Her voice was both vulnerable and commanding. Even with all that crackling, it was clear to me that she was rightly a star.

Clive Davis once attributed Diana's success to two things:

1. The sheer recognizability of her sound 2. The timbre instantly evokes a yearning teenager -- which is why so many people respond to it.

r142 Dinah had an all-time great voice. Seriously underrated and unfortunately mostly unknown today. Had that effortless, sassy cool too. Wonder if she would've been a big star if she'd been born a generation later.

But Dionne let her voice go and wrecked her image by becoming Nostrildamus for Psychic Friends.

I was in a club last night, and the DJ did a Diana Ross set. Unbelievable experience... These twenty-something kids just started dancing like crazy! When "The Boss" started playing the bartender took his shirt off, and started dancing. All I could think to myself was; "Wow! What if Miss Ross walked in on this!"

Diana Ross: Why?

Clearly there is a reason...

[quote]But Dionne let her voice go and wrecked her image by becoming Nostrildamus for Psychic Friends.

She's why I don't believe in psychics. If they were for real, Whitney Houston would still be alive because the Psychic "Friends" Network would have been able to foresee what ultimately happened.

This is why...

Her voice was like cotton candy, and sweet as anything. The songs she sang about people breaking her heart made you feel, why would ANYONE HURT THIS GIRL?! She had the sweetest kindest voice.

I just heard Diana sing gospel, as suggested up thread. Wow. I have never heard Diana belt and growl like that. She has power. Her hits just didn't require that style. I'm shaking as I type!

Diana Ross succeeded because of marketing. She wasn't the best singer, but she could carry a tune, she was black enough for the blacks and non-threatening enough for the whites.

Look at the 5th Dimension, always criticized for being too white. Though ironically so was Whitney Houston after her huge lp "Whitney" which led to the more R&B sounding "I'm Your Baby Tonight" lp.

Motown shoved everything they had to market The Supremes and it paid off handsomely with the group having 12 number one singles and a boatload of other top ten hits.

This is similar to Olivia Newton-John and Karen Carpenter that happened to be great singers and in the right place at the right time, when their soft sound was in vogue.

Contrast to Laura Branigan a singer with a brilliant set of pipes that came along about five years too late, and could've been much bigger in Disco.

It's not only about talent, one has to be in the right place with the right marketing as well.

On his talk show Merv Griffin asked Karen Carpenter, after she sang a number in a high key, why she didn't sing high more often. She said, "The money's in the basement."

The one song by Diana Ross I didn't like was "Mirror Mirror." Her voice on the song sucked.

[quote]I have never heard Diana belt and growl like that. She has power. Her hits just didn't require that style

True. That style is few but she can do it.

[quote]The one song by Diana Ross I didn't like was "Mirror Mirror." Her voice on the song sucked.

One of my favorite songs by her--especially when I saw her perform it live.

[quote] On his talk show Merv Griffin asked Karen Carpenter, after she sang a number in a high key, why she didn't sing high more often. She said, "The money's in the basement."

Karen Carpenter singing in a high key?! What, did she take it up a half step from usual range?

Has Diana Ross been hit on by a woman back in the day?

Bump.

Nice house!

Always loved this outfit. Timeless...

This is why...

She's a star! Some people don't like stars.

Whachagonnado?

Ask Diana Ross about, Rock Singer Lou Christie, He was the first white boy to slide under her spell, He still thinks and talks about her since they traveled together on the Dick Clark tours, in the 60s I heard hes seeing her again. OOOOOO!!

Racist thread. Diana Ross is supreme. Don't forget that lesbos. Keep her name out of your mouths. You aren't worthy to discuss her.

More info on Diana and Lou Christie. Love both of them.

She looked the whitest.

Florence Ballard was the lightest, but you knew that, Flo.

Diana sounded whiter.

None of the Supremes were sangers, at least until Sherrie Payne joined.

r175: Me too. It's obvious Diana couldn't resist Lou's huge uncut Italian sizemeat.

and yet Diana Ross just sold out the new Loews theater in Brooklyn New York

"Her career went down the drain in the 90's"

I'm pretty sure it petered out in the 80s.

Not internationally. She had her last solo UK No. 1 in 1991. And I Will Survie and Not Over You Yet charted high as well.

This is a favorite moment. Her voice is thin but there is such sweetness and vulnerability to it. Plus she could sing gorgeously at times, and her wonderful sense of phrasing and rhythm are as good as anyones. Joy and light and sensual sorrow, haughty glamor and playful sexy shimmer - DRoss is a star baby.

She was a cheap Janet imitation.

She was an amazing singer, and also could deliver live. In her later years at Motown the Supremes weren't even used as backup singers on the recordings. Diana was the real deal, Mary never could hold a candle to her.

R172

and made a good deal of money from lawsuits...

which is another popular reason of why, despite her talents, she's not so well liked.

She's a DiVA!

Diana Ross pregnant

Performance at 22:33 Interview at 26:00 (listen to the applause! Big surprise at 39:00

That is all...

You know that her name is an anagram for you-know-what.

Just sayin' if you didn't already know.

Her daughter is hilarious in TV's BLACKISH

It was anazing to see glamorous Black women on tv at a time when there hardly were . Yes there was a time

Ross was made to be glamourous, dresses and wigs. She's not that beautiful of a woman. Too skinny which made her head disproportinate to her body. Her mouth was also too big.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

...and she does it again!

Miss R started the multiple wardrobe changes at Awards Shows

I didn't read all the previous posts, but if you want to hear Diana Ross' powerful voice...

Do a Google search for Diana Ross Amazing Grace.

I think the video is from a Vienna concert she did in the 90s.

Her rendition is breathtaking.

Who?

Thin voice but amazing singers. Those Supremes songs are rhythmically complex--not everyone could do them justice. Gordy made the right decision by giving Ross the lead.

R193 nails it.

Boy! She definitely looks like and has picked up her mother's characteristics!

"Mahogany" is her greatest work.

She was the black Olivia Newton-John

Is her kid ugly too?

A small but distinctive pop voice that she has milked expertly with unbridled ambition. She was a decent actress as well and developed a real show biz glamour style (if not quite my cup of tea.) I liked the Supremes when I was a kid, but never much liked Diana when she became a solo act and big star. In her later day Supreme phase her Funny Girl medleys made it kind of obvious who her model was. But she did not and does not possess that kind of talent.

Her other sister, (Rita Ross) is going to run for office:

Diana Ross' sister is running for a Michigan House seat

Posted By Alexandra Fluegel on Fri, Feb 23, 2018 at 12:16 pm

Elections for the state's House of Representatives will take place this year, and all 110 seats are up for grabs. In the 5th district, which encompasses much of Southwest Detroit, there's one candidate with a bit of star power in the running.

Rita Ross, the youngest sister of famed singer Diana Ross, entered the race in late January. While there is currently no website or online presence for the campaigns, records list her as a Democratic candidate.

Late Thursday night, the singer tweeted her support.

Ms. Ross @DianaRoss @DianaRoss

My sister Rita Ross is running for State Representative of the 5th District in Detroit, this is her calling .Please support! 6:47 PM - 22 Feb 2018

Rita Ross was a member of Detroit's Board of Zoning Appeals until recently. We were unable to reach her for comment.

The primary election will be held August 7, 2018, and the winners will square off in the November general election. The seat is currently held by Democrat Fred Durhal III, who succeeded his father, Fred Durhal Jr., in 2014. Durhal is running for re-election, and if elected, it would be his final two-year term.

Diana Ross and family

Miss Warwick said it best years ago.

Diana Ross has a career because she knew just the right moment to exclaim "Oh, Berry......it's so big!"

Miss Warwick conveniently neglected to make mention of Diana's full statement to Gordy: Oh Berry, it's so big! I bet it could even fill up one of Dionne's nostrils!

R206

Rita lost