Money: Do you know that ironworkers, construction workers etc

They own more than one home, in different communities.

There work is often seasonal -- especially in the east, so that $90/hr often averages out to a lot less over a year.

$90/ hour for construction work? Sorry, I'm not buying it. I've hired construction workers, none of them made anything close to that.

Source , OP?

OP when you say things like "Honest question:" it gives away your Rove-ian agenda.

You need to learn how to be more subtle to be a disinformationist.

Ironworkers include the guys who walk out on I-beams hundreds of feet above the earth on skyscrapers and bridges. It's something very few can or would do and the work is paid accordingly.

Construction workers include all kinds of trades of varying degrees of experience and difficulty and training - from the guy who tapes drywall or washes out paint brushes to skilled finish carpenters to specialty lighting contractors to all sorts of things - union, and non-union, and seasonal. Some make good money while others eke by.

I knew many ironworkers growing up in Brooklyn. They do get paid tons, but they are scared shitless the whole time. And drinking throughout the day.

[quote]If they make so much per hour, why are they considered blue-collar?

you're a real dumb-dumb, aren't you? Blue-collar only today means "poor" - blue-collar traditionally meant the style of work you did, not the necessarily the dollar amount. GEESH, what and idiot!

I make $150 an hour but if I only work a couple hours a week, that's not so much, is it, OP? now, count it up. okay? now, does that make me - BLUE-COLLAR? no. I'm an adjunct at a college in the area, totally not blue-collar, but I earn less. Get it? no?

well, you like most of the human race is a lost cause anyway. .. .

Well, you're wrong--ironworkers:

Have some more caffeine!

And wrong on construction workers:

those guys also work jobs that tend to wreck physical health within a couple of decades. you can be a desk jockey well into your 60s and 70s if you have to but if you're in construction, welding, mining etc you'll likely destroy your back by middle age no matter how careful you are. without labor unions or pension plans like in decades past, even blue collar workers with year-round income at good hourly wages are pretty much destined to be on their way to poverty before they're old enough to collect their social security checks and medicare.

Sheet metal workers can pull down 80k a year.

80k is $40 an hour. That is the ballpark for many construct tion workers.

Electricians and plumbers can make more...but they are running their own businesses and paying overhead and insurance.

Nobody works all the time in construction, there is downtime between jobs, and the last few years have been tough.

And hour much do fuckin' lawyers make an hour?

High wages like that are likely for unionized workers.

The influx of undocumented laborers has been lowering wages overall. When the illegals were doing work that nobody else wanted (e.g. picking fruits/vegetables in the field, cleaning bathrooms and office buildings, etc.) nobody cared. When they start to do construction work for 1/3 of the cost, middle-class livelihoods are effected.

Makes that $200K college education look pretty pointless, doesn't it OP? (Not to mention you are an adult who doesn't know what blue-collar even means.)

They may make $90/hour, but it's not like they're working 40 hours a week for 52 weeks a year.

r18, the road crew outside my office in I287 has been working 52 weeks a year for the past six years (probably longer, since the road has been under construction for 15 years now, they've just been stuck in one spot for six years).

blue-collar jobs = get your hands dirty.

white-collar jobs = sit behind a desk.

A receptionist is a white-collar job that pays shit.

R6, I once heard that many iron workers are from a Native American tribe that have a cultural lack of fear of heights. Can anyone verify this fact?

OP, Many highly paid construction workers in Vegas overindulge in the "Vegas lifestyle." Some are even "paid on Fri, broke by Mon."

[quote]New York City has a Mohawk Indian community founded by the arrival of hired skyscraper construction workers of Mohawk and other Iroquois origin from the 1930s to the 1970s on special labor contracts to build bridges and skyscrapers, including the Empire State Building. The construction companies found that the Mohawks did not fear heights or dangerous conditions, but the contracts offered lower than average wages and limited labor union membership.

[quote]A Mohawk community in Brooklyn called "Little Caughnawaga" had its heyday from the 1920s to the 1960s. Brooklyn Mohawks were mostly from Kahnawake. The work and home life of Mohawk steelworkers was documented in Don Owen's 1965 National Film Board of Canada documentary High Steel.

[quote]Approximately 200 Mohawk iron workers (out of the 2000 working at the site) have contributed to rebuilding the One World Trade Center. They typically drive the 360 miles from the Kahnawake reserve near Quebec to work the week in lower Manhattan, and then return on the weekend to be with their families. A selection of portraits of these Mohawk iron workers were featured in an online photo essay for Time Magazine in September 2012.

R22, Thank you for your post. Always wanted to know WHY Mohawks didn't fear great height or danger. Heard that they were some of the Native Americans who actually made a decent living, before the growth of Indian Gaming.

r22/23, the Mohawks who lived in Brooklyn hung out at the Wigwam Bar at 75 Nevins Street near Atlantic. Many went upstate on weekends to visit families. For those who stayed, the Culver Presbyterian Church on Pacific Street had services in the Mohawk language.

Honey child, OP, when a contractor charges you some outrageous labor fee like $90 per hour, the actual worker is getting half of that at most.

It's like when you hire a temp accountant and they charge you $30 per hour. The temp is making $12-$15 per hour. This is how temp agencies work.

Oh fuck off with the bullshit.

Trades don't fucking make $90 an hour.

As someone who's currently researching apprenticeships because I want to eventually work in a trade, I have not found evidence that any trades make that kind of cash. Yes, they can make a decent wage, and some start their own companies and do well on their own, but $90 an hour? No way.

OP - that is absurd.

bullshit

No-collar workers

I'm a union Ironworker in Chicago, our hourly package is around $80 an hour. Out of that they take health insurance, pension, annuity, work assessment, apprenticeship fund, and a few other deductions. We end up with $40.75 an hour and double time for over 8 hours and weekends. It's the greatest job that I can imagine doing. You can travel the country and find work, or stay in your own local and work. It offers options and freedom. I can't imagine going to the same office day after day.

Im an ironworker in california and make $45.00 an hour a decent living wage in the bay area.start pay is $20.67 which here is still low income

Blue collar came from the color of shirts normally worn by those in the trades versus office workers/executives.

Back in the days the "working classes/tradesmen" wore either uniforms or at least darker coloured shirts. Those that worked indoors in offices and or were at least not involved in manual labor wore white or lighter coloured shirts.

Rationale is simple; if you are going to be doing sweaty, grimy, dirty work you aren't going to wear white, especially shirts/collars. This would have been in the days when laundry was a two or three day long process involving mostly manual or at least a good amount of manual labor.

Who knew DL has not just one, but two iron workers.

[quote] but they are scared shitless the whole time. And drinking throughout the day.

I've heard this about roofers and tuck-pointers, too.

Many years ago, a friend managed an apartment building that was having some roof repair done. Roofer was making a move to come down a ladder when he stumbled and fell off the building (it was about seven or eight stories). He came away with relatively minor injuries because a) someone was moving and had placed a mattress where he happened to fall; and b) he was drunk and relatively flexible/loose.

How do employers deal with the liability of drunk workers. I'm not sure I could do work at that height without a couple of belts.

My partner's dad worked construction (and my own dad did as well, briefly) and the horror stories about injuries were legion. It's a fucking dangerous job, and seasonal. Even if they DID make $90/hour I wouldn't begrudge them a cent of it.

I am friends with a married couple. He's a journeyman electrician. She's a partner in one of the top law firms in the state.

He makes more money than she does, although you'll never convince her work colleagues.

Blue collar on blue work shirt. You don't wear a white shirt and suit to weld.

DUH

A friend graduated from high school, went to a six-month trade school, joined the IBEW and is now making $80 a hour while his friends wasted thousands on college and can't find a job. We need electricians, plumbers, carpenters, and auto repairers, not Art History and other esoteric nerds.

Rentboys make more than that and not many live in Scarsdale.

r8, maybe you'd make more money if your spelling was better.

Would R31 and R32 please post some pictures? Thanks.

If R8 is a college professor, I weep for our future.

R15, remember, attorneys BILL out at $175-800 (dep on the firm and the city), but that's not what they GET per hour. These days, people would be thrilled to get a job as an attorney. Partners at the big firms, in big cities: probably $400K to up to $1MM, depending on client lists. Attorneys: in big cities, used to be, at big firms, starting salary of $175K, up to c. $300K before making partner; I dare say this is less now.

A lot of people still consider blue-collar to be working with ones' hands, and snobs consider that "lower" than working with your - dare I say - brain.

Structural iron workers make between $20 and $25 per hour. They also get wage differential for difficult working conditions, so that could push them as high as $50/hour for a job with "difficult conditions."

The thing is one highly paid group can push an average way up. For instance, the average STARTING wage for a waiter is $16/hour (including tips), yet you constantly hear of waiters saying they make next to nothing, which is simply not so.

People often think they make less or deserve more than they do.

When I was in H/R I did a survey and went out and applied for jobs and held interviews for jobs. I found not only could I command more than I thought, but I also could hire people for a lot less, than my staff not made.

Bottom line is, the "average" differs so much from type of job, location of job, wage differential, not to mention union/non-union, and shift work, that it's inaccurate to compare anything but one direct industry to another.

Ok AS AN IRONWORKER, I know what we make. The rate depends on the local that you are working out of (where the work is being done). In my local the rate is 39$/hour plus benefits. Some locals in the southern states are very low -20$/hour since the cost of living is so low; other locals like NYC make over 50$/hour.

That rate doesn't include pension approx 7$/hour, vacation pay, excellent medical coverage, life insurance, travel, possibly living out allowance (100-130/day approx tax free) and other benefits. These the employer pays for. The contractor will bill labor costs nominally 100$/hour and actually pay 55$-60$/ hour for him.

Most ironworkers work 32-40 hours a week depending on weather (wind, rain, other factors) and would typically only take home 11-1200$/week.

Some work does allow for significant OT at double time. So depending on the amount of DT you get you may make as much as 3000$/week plus loa. It's not uncommon to net 3-5$grand a week.

For that you are however doing a very physical job and are expected to put your job first. No crybabies need apply. At the expense of social life and family at times to be able to work ot when you're needed.

These are union wages and non union would be another story (up to 25$/hour no benefits, medical etc.)

Other building trades (boiler makers, pipe fitters, sheet metal workers, electricians, union labourers (real unions not CLAC or similar), operating engineers, carpenters, millwrights, make nearly identical money. The full breakdown of benefits vary by trade and local.

These rates are full journeyman rate and foremans, general foremans, etc. Will make progressively more.

If you have little social life it's possible to make 200k+/year.

Their unions take a big cut of their pay.

Illegals work construction a lot now...heard it's 200 a day.

Not really true. Unions require union dues @35$/month and small working dues equal to a couple dollars/hour. A small price to pay for great earning power!

I know of ironworkers and construction crews and in Chicago they make between $25 and $40 and hour. As others have said, there is a lot of down time but they have to work a bunch of overtime when it's available. Plus the above mentioned wages are unionized too. So they have to pay medical and dues out of that.

Holy shit, the wage for construction workers in the US is atrocious. In my country they actually make more money than I do, and I have a masters degree.

Nevermind that the OP assumes someone earning "white collar" wages should live in wealthy suburbs. Ever consider that someone earning through physical labor might not see the value in spending their money that way? Their bank accounts are probably healthier looking than the manicured hedges of some house poor desk jockey.

Benefits such as medical, pension life insurance etc do NOT come off the rate! Those are in addition to the actual pay rate. Only the 35$ dues come out of pocket. And about 3$/ hour is allocated to trade improvement, training etc.

If you only want to work structural yes there is downtime, but if you're willing to work maintainence and other types of ironwork there is very little downtime. A day here or there. Maybe you'll sit a couple weeks out of the year collectively.

If you're a shitty worker and think that you're entitled to that wage without providing an honest days work, you'll be laid off first and will work less as a result. Slugs will sit more than they will work. Unions provide you an opportunity which its up to you what to do with.

Local 40 Ironworkers in NYC actually make $130 an hour. The aforementioned post about missed time due to inclimate weather is accurate for the most part, but it does not equate for the overtime worked , usually in part caused by inclimate weather or a deadline. The average salary of an NYC Local 40 ironworker is $150,000 plus the topping out, so technically by The IRS standards it is actually $180,000. And this IS NOT INCLUDING THE PENTION OR THE ANNUITY.

Vegas construction workers follow the jobs. Alaska during the summer, other nearby states if it's slow.

[quote]Their unions take a big cut of their pay.

more total bullshit

From what I hear around town, Locksmiths make almost more than any other trade here in the US. Most emergency calls do happen outside normal business hours, and there are apparently not enough Locksmiths to go around. I have also been told in Chicago, Iron workers and pipe fitters do quite well for themselves. It is quite competitive as well.