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Ann Reinking's version of AGAINST ALL ODDS

It's never been posted on Youtube in all of these years so far. I'd love to watch it, as it's supposed to be legendary in its awfulness. From what I heard, she did an interpretive dance around it, and Collins hated it so much that he bashed her in the media for months afterwards. But no one seems to have it.

Did Reinking pay to have the tapes burned?

by Anonymousreply 16107/01/2017

Phil Collins wasn't even asked to sing the song that night, even though he attended the ceremony.

by Anonymousreply 103/31/2012

OMG...she didnt try to do an interpretive dance around but she tried to act out the song rather than sing it. My friends and I still mimic it to this day...

by Anonymousreply 203/31/2012

It was worse than Rob Lowe's dance with Snow White.

by Anonymousreply 303/31/2012

I don't remember the reason why they didn't allow, or ask, Phil Collins to sing his own song. I loved that song!! Anyone?

by Anonymousreply 403/31/2012

There was a pas de deux with the outstanding Gary Chryst who played the pimp in Pat Benatar's "Love is a Battlefield." At one time, there was Ann and Gary dancing while her prerecorded vocals played in the background. She was later even a presenter, which caused many to wonder who she was fucking. The answer? Billionaire Herb Allen.

It wrecked her Hollywood career, which was taking flight with her very appealing performance in the Dudley Moore comedy "Micki and Maude."

This performance was seen as the catalyst for allowing the original performers to do their nominated songs instead of trying for production numbers.

by Anonymousreply 503/31/2012

I remember the controversy. They allowed deniece williams and ray parker jr. to perform their hit songs. But not kenny loggins, stevie wonder and phil collins. Stevie wonder ended up winning. Dont know if kenny loggins was there or not. But people were really upset about phil collins. I think all the songs ended up being performed as production numbers. And he didnt fit in with that.

by Anonymousreply 603/31/2012

They should just have one super-talented singer do all of the nominated songs. They did that one year and it was a smash hit. I, uh, she got to have a shitload of costume changes, too.

by Anonymousreply 703/31/2012

I have only heard of this fiasco, but have never seen it. I wish someone would put it up on Youtube. From what I've heard over the years, it really was as awful as legend would have it.

by Anonymousreply 803/31/2012

Isn't it amazing that there are no pictures or clips of it on the internet at all?!?!?

by Anonymousreply 904/01/2012

It was Against All THE Odds.

by Anonymousreply 1004/01/2012

#92 on this list...

by Anonymousreply 1104/01/2012

I saw it when it originally aired, and yes, it was just as god-awful as you have heard.

by Anonymousreply 1203/02/2013

I have it on videotape. If I were to digitize it and put it on youtube, would I get kicked off or banned from youtube?

by Anonymousreply 1303/02/2013

Really a shame because she was stunning in All That Jazz and really good in Micki and Maude. I know she was supposed to star opposite Matthew Broderick in No Small Affair but it was recast with Demi Moore and Jon Cryer.

She's an amazing dancer and choreographer and very well respected in the theatre community where no one gives a rats ass about the oscars.

by Anonymousreply 1403/02/2013

Oooh, pretty please, r13!!!

by Anonymousreply 1503/02/2013

Bump this motherfucker! I've got to see this!

by Anonymousreply 1603/03/2014

Does anyone remember how the Oscars treated the nomination of the song "Purple Rain"? He accepted the award onstage (link) but I can't find anything about a performance.

by Anonymousreply 1703/03/2014

r17 It was the typical Prince live performance; in other words, he and The Revolution tore it up, and received a standing ovation. It was the highlight of the evening.

by Anonymousreply 1803/03/2014

I agree with r14. I know this board hates her, but I just have to disagree - she was stunning, a great dancer, a decent if deep voiced singer, and a good enough actress who probably would have gotten better.

But it this really why her movie career ended? Especially in the days before Internet and google, I can't imagine something like this literally derailing a career to the point where she never acted again short of a Cosby Show appearance. Or even if it was that much of a career killer, she still would done some low grade direct to video crap and bit parts here and there. The fact that she literally did NOTHING leads me to believe that it was more voluntary, but it has always been a mystery to me anyway. Maybe Herb Allen gave her some huge chunk of change so she was set for life?

by Anonymousreply 1903/03/2014

Crickets? I've actually been curious about this for some time (why she suddenly stopped working, that is).

by Anonymousreply 2003/03/2014

R 13 - can I buy a copy of this perfomance from you

by Anonymousreply 2105/06/2014

Is it as good as Lucille Ball's interpretation of "It's Today"?

by Anonymousreply 2205/08/2014

[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]

by Anonymousreply 2305/08/2014

Being in ANNIE didn't help.

by Anonymousreply 2405/08/2014

The video is now on youtube

by Anonymousreply 2511/29/2014

Take a look at me. NOW!

by Anonymousreply 2611/29/2014

Take a look at it now!

by Anonymousreply 2711/29/2014

This is it

by Anonymousreply 2811/29/2014

I tried to give it a little 'oh, that was just the coked-out 80s' context, but no, that truly was career-ending awful, like a Molly Shannon SNL sketch crossed with some white Miss America contestant singing the Dreamgirls songbook. And the pimp from Pat Benetar's video is just the right addition of wtf.

by Anonymousreply 2911/29/2014

Wow, that was really bad. Was Reinking ever considered a singer or was she mostly just known for dancing?

by Anonymousreply 3011/29/2014

I love the end of it. How she looks like she thing she really killed it. Well she did. Just not in the way she thinks.

by Anonymousreply 3111/29/2014

Phil Collins asked/inquired twice (once in writing) about performing the song.

He was told they would prefer someone that was a member of the AMPAS to perform the song.

He said the letter denying his request started with "Dear Phillip"

I watched the Oscar broadcast live and Reinking's performance of "against all odds" was embarrassingly bad.

by Anonymousreply 3211/29/2014

That shouldn't have been a career-ending performance, that should have been a singing-live-on-national-TV-ending performance.

Thanks for finding it, R28!

by Anonymousreply 3311/29/2014

In the very beginning of that video, you see Angela Lansbury in a caftan.

by Anonymousreply 3411/29/2014

She wasn't singing live and I posted the clip first, so you're 0 for 2, R33.

by Anonymousreply 3511/29/2014

It looked to me like she sang the first part live, and then the recording took over as the dancing started.

by Anonymousreply 3611/29/2014

As a singer, Ann Reinking is quite a dancer.

It was particularly funny how she kept singing against all THE odds ........ and when she whisper/screeched that 'so take a look at me now'

I would've rather seen them perform the hooker ho-down from 'Love Is A Battlefield' ..

by Anonymousreply 3711/29/2014

Oh my god.

Come back, AnnE, all is forgiven.

by Anonymousreply 3811/29/2014

In your face, Ann.

I danced with him better.

Starting at 3:18

by Anonymousreply 3911/29/2014

I love the hooker hoe down! Thanks r37 and 39. Always loved Pat' take on Sweet Charity.

by Anonymousreply 4011/29/2014

She was beautiful and a great dancer. That lame performance did not end her career. She returned to Broadway and won awards for acting, directing and choreography (Chicago, Fosse).

by Anonymousreply 4111/29/2014

Except for the end, where she overdid it just a tad, I still don't get what was wrong with that. Put it this way...I've seen far worse Oscar performances.

Or has anyone seen the Teri Garr Oscar opening from I think '86? If that had been anyone else, that probably would have been a career ender - the whole concept was ridiculous, she was singing completely off key (you think THIS was bad?) and the dancing was pretty amateurish. But she's Teri Garr and she's still adorable even if she can't sing a note that you can't possibly hold it against her.

by Anonymousreply 4211/29/2014

Reinking was great and got a little residual resentment that Collins (then at his peak) wasn't allowed to sing his own song. Nobody thought she butchered it. But she wasn't given much of a fair shake with the "controversy" pre-show.

Loved her then, watch her now on the Criterion version of "All That Jazz". She's held up well though I wouldn't recognize her on the street these days.

By the way, I watched that 1984 Oscar ceremony at a big manager's apartment -- with Phyllis Diller sitting across the table from me the whole night (and groaning "Jesus" when Sally Field gave her famous bad speech.) She didn't say one word to me the whole night, ha. Dorothy Lamour at least smiled in my direction -- once.

by Anonymousreply 4311/29/2014

R43 I saw her in the Food Emporium sometime in the early 2000s. She was jowlier, of course, but I definitely recognized her.

Btw her son was born in the 90s and she quit the biz well before that - for those saying his illness was the reason she left.

by Anonymousreply 4411/29/2014

Saw her and Tommy Tune (!) doing "Bye Bye Birdie" in Long Beach during her "final act" before retirement. Man, those legs... and, yes, she could sing too.

She is responsible for one of my all time favorite film moments too, one I actually show acting students: that choky voiced delivery to Joe Gideon, "I wish you weren't so generous with your cock." All hers.

by Anonymousreply 4511/29/2014

P.S. Just meet her, R42, and you'll change your tune (or out of tune).

by Anonymousreply 4611/29/2014

OMG. I haven't seen that since it aired, and I'm just as WTF about it now as I was in middle school.

by Anonymousreply 4711/29/2014

It was really not good, but not THAT bad.

It's one of those bad showbiz moments that gets blown way out of proportion, like Supertrain or Life With Lucy—reputed to be napalm but actually just meh.

Anyway - everyone download this quick in case it gets deleted from YouTube!

by Anonymousreply 4811/29/2014

Yes, it is indeed awful. She's overwrought, has a... character voice, and phrases badly. Oh, and she gets the fucking lyrics wrong on a playback vocal ("Against all THE odds").

Strange that they had her dance with a man who appears shorter than her

by Anonymousreply 4911/29/2014

The entire 1985 Academy Awards is on YouTube btw.

by Anonymousreply 5011/29/2014

Just for you OP.

by Anonymousreply 5111/29/2014

Teri Garr opening...

by Anonymousreply 5211/30/2014

I preferred Ann Reinking's performance on 'Night of 100 Stars". Wardrobe by Oscar de la Rent, hair by Sticking Her Head Out the Window of Her Limo.

by Anonymousreply 5311/30/2014

Stick around for a minute if you click on R53's link and check out who's wearing Pauline Trigere!

by Anonymousreply 5411/30/2014

Not quite as bad as Ireland's Linda Martin and her cover version of Daft Punk's "Get Lucky":

by Anonymousreply 5511/30/2014

I was 15 when that ceremony aired and the funny thing is, the only 2 moments I remember are Sally Field's win and this atrocity.

I can't imagine that Deniece Williams and Ray Parker, Jr., were members of AMPAS, so that can't be the reason Collins wasn't allowed to perform his song.

In fact, he got cheated out of performing his next nominated song, "Two Hearts" from "Buster" (1988); since there were only 3 songs nominated that year, the Academy decided not have any of them performed! Shocking, I know. (That was the year Carly Simon won for "Let the River Run" -- incidentally, she also got cheated out of performing her other nominated song at the Oscars -- 1977's "Nobody Does it Better" was performed by Aretha Franklin, of all people.)

by Anonymousreply 5611/30/2014

Here's Aretha Franklin's performance of "Nobody Does It Better" at the Oscars:

by Anonymousreply 5711/30/2014

Terri Garr's opening number was pretty typical of them all. Since the beginning was meant to be funny anyway and the end had her surrounded by a bunch of dancers, even with her bad singing didn't come off much worse than others.

Among the worst ever was the one that aired the same night as Snow White/Rob Lowe ....

Presenting the 'Stars Of Tomorrow' .... well, not so much ! But always fun to see Corey 'Michael Jackson' Feldman.

Starts at 4:10

by Anonymousreply 5811/30/2014

One of Ann Reinking's shining hours: Big Noise from Winnetka, a pas de deux with Jeff Hyslop

by Anonymousreply 5911/30/2014

Can someone post a link to the Ann Reinking performance? I can't seem to find it on Youtube.


by Anonymousreply 6011/30/2014

"Against all THE odds"


by Anonymousreply 6111/30/2014

R56 I was thinking the same thing. Collins was a bigger name in 1985 than Williams and Parker jr. Yet they performed their hit songs. Even though Kenny Loggins and Stevie Wonder didn't perform theirs. Wonder was bigger than all of them put together at the time! I don't know wtf they were thinking.

by Anonymousreply 6211/30/2014

I don't look so bad now, do I?

by Anonymousreply 6311/30/2014

[quote] I don't look so bad now, do I?

[quote] Alyson Reed

Have you lost the weight?

by Anonymousreply 6411/30/2014

Yeah, I don't know what the Oscars people were thinking that year. It was, I think, the only time that all 5 nominees were #1 hits, and they had Debbie Allen do Footloose and Ann Reinking do Against All Odds. And Phil Collins wrote the song, so he was a nominee that night.

I don't know why she kept singing "Against all the Odds" when it doesn't fit the music.

by Anonymousreply 6511/30/2014

OP, don't watch it. I still can't get it out of my mind.

by Anonymousreply 6611/30/2014

Erm, let's start with the fact that Ann Reinking CANNOT sing.

by Anonymousreply 6711/30/2014

The panties? Where were the panties?

by Anonymousreply 6811/30/2014

Doesn't Phil Collins say "against the odds" (you coming back to me is...) in his own version? Besides, she had to put her thumbprint on it, right?

Go watch the clip of Dyan Cannon (!) singing a nominated song and the mike going out on her. That's more of a hoot than this.

by Anonymousreply 6911/30/2014

[quote]Not quite as bad as Ireland's Linda Martin and her cover version of Daft Punk's "Get Lucky"

LOL! Is this the inspiration for Tracy Ullman's Linda Granger character?

by Anonymousreply 7011/30/2014

r53 thanks for the link to Nigh of 100 Stars. I haven't thought about that show in years.

For the love of God what was Toukie Smith doing in that parade people? And she wasn't even wearing a design by her brother.

by Anonymousreply 7111/30/2014

I remember Against All THE Odds as well. We were howling when it was performed.

by Anonymousreply 7211/30/2014

The night of the Teri Garr debacle I was in the hospital and a couple of friends were visiting. We just looked at each other, stunned. Finally I said, already knowing the answer, "maybe it's SUPPOSED to be funny." We all just shook our heads.

by Anonymousreply 7311/30/2014

I don't believe that this performance killed Ann Reinking's film career. No, IMHO her film career fizzled out quickly because she couldn't really act. Yes, her BF Fosse got a very good performance out of her in "All That Jazz", but in other films she was a stiff and chilly presence. She was a great dancer, but that was it.

And in R52's clip, the 80s fashions on the red carpet are much more WTF than the opening musical number.

by Anonymousreply 7411/30/2014

And they got the knives out for me for less than that!

by Anonymousreply 7511/30/2014

R52 just watched that again and it's actually worse then I remembered. Girl really can't sing, and in theory that should have been much more of a "career killer" then Reinking's performance. And I adore Garr (despite the anti-Garr troll's best efforts), so I'm hardly saying this out of any sort of bias.

Was this the performance where Garr insinuated (in her book) that she caught Lange in the audience giving her the stink-eye? I get confused because her timeline for that book was so fucking all over the place.

by Anonymousreply 7611/30/2014

Ann's film career ended when she and Herb Allen got a divorce.

by Anonymousreply 7711/30/2014

R74 I thought she was funny in Micki and Maude and made the most of what was always an underwritten part in Annie. Plus she was just starting out. I think she only would have gotten better had she kept at it.

by Anonymousreply 7811/30/2014

It's not a great song to begin with.

by Anonymousreply 7911/30/2014

R79 that's true. Btw, has anyone here actually seen the movie? Because I know no one has ever seen "Buster."

by Anonymousreply 8011/30/2014

[quote]an underwritten part in Annie.

Did someone say underpants?

by Anonymousreply 8111/30/2014

r80, "Against All Odds" was a minor hit back in 1984 -- I remember my mom taking me to see it -- besides Jeff Bridges, it had Rachel Ward as the leading lady, just coming off the colossally successful miniseries "The Thorn Birds."

by Anonymousreply 8211/30/2014

I remember the last shot being a long close-up of Rachel Ward which any actress would envy. But I also remember thinking that she aint Garbo - after a while her face had nothing more to reveal.

by Anonymousreply 8312/01/2014

I like the Pauline Kael review of Rachel Ward in this movie: "After a while, you walk away thinking 'She's not as pretty as I thought she was.'" (I paraphrase). It really was downhill from there for her.

She married Byron Brown and became an Aussie hausfrau.

by Anonymousreply 8412/01/2014

It honestly couldn't hold a candle to Rob Lowe's Proud Mary with Snow White, which involved the humiliation of several older stars as well.

by Anonymousreply 8512/01/2014

"The night of the Teri Garr debacle I was in the hospital and a couple of friends were visiting. "

Funny thing, I've spent an incredible number of Oscar nights in hospitals, as a patient, visitor, volunteer, and worker.

Maybe that's the real "Oscar Curse", R73, at least for some of us.

by Anonymousreply 8612/01/2014

[quote]Was this the performance where Garr insinuated (in her book) that she caught Lange in the audience giving her the stink-eye? I get confused because her timeline for that book was so fucking all over the place.

Yes, R76. She looked out into the audience and saw Sam Shepard and Jessica Lange "staring smugly" back at her.

by Anonymousreply 8712/01/2014


by Anonymousreply 8806/23/2017

Bump you, R88.

by Anonymousreply 8906/23/2017

I adore this thread.

Why was Lange giving Garr the stink-eye. I mean, it was Lange who stole Garr's Oscar, not the other way around.

by Anonymousreply 9006/23/2017

I was available . . .

by Anonymousreply 9106/23/2017

[quote] It was worse than Rob Lowe's dance with Snow White.

I still say that was worse by far.

by Anonymousreply 9206/23/2017

In re: [italic]Annie[/italic], someone once asked me why Bernadette Peters didn't play Grace, assuming she was vocally more appropriate for the role. That would have left the role of Lily open for Reinking, and that way she'd still get to dance in "Easy Street," except even with Bernie as Lily and even with the first verse on the cutting room floor it still ended up being one of the best parts of the film.

by Anonymousreply 9306/23/2017

I'm with R79, it's kind of a crappy song anyway.

by Anonymousreply 9406/23/2017

Ha! From the youtube comments, I assume the "pirate guy" is Gary Chryst:

I remember this night well and when the pirate guy touched her shoulder I seriously thought it was to console her and take her off stage. Seriously.

by Anonymousreply 9506/24/2017

I haven't read all the comments here. I just googled the song and Ann Reinking and the song came up right away. I'll see if I can get Rob Lowe and his song.

by Anonymousreply 9606/24/2017

"So Take A Look At Me NOOOOOOoooooooooowwwwww!"

by Anonymousreply 9706/24/2017

Poor Gary must have emphysema now from standing in all that stage smoke.

by Anonymousreply 9806/24/2017

There's something off about her facial expression from the get go. She's got a deer-in-the-headlights terror thing going. Is that supposed to be her acting "How can I just let you walk away/Just let you leave without a trace?"

by Anonymousreply 9906/24/2017

She kind of creeped me out when I was little, with her slick, flat, middle-parted hair and undersized nose, but she was a great dancer, and those legs! that body!

by Anonymousreply 10006/24/2017

My gawd. Even more horrible than I had imagined it could be. Why does she look like a zombie with those wide open eyes staring off into nothingness? Was she just released from a North Korean labor camp? And I thought "We Got Annie" was bad.

by Anonymousreply 10106/24/2017

I think the number in R58's clip is even worse than the Ann Reinking debacle. NONE of those "up and comers" got anywhere near winning an Oscar in their careers. And poor Carrie Hamilton--dead way too young.

In the book "The Last Days of Dead Celebrities," I believe someone quoted Lucy as saying she had no idea who any of those young actors were, let alone believing they'd be winning Oscars for many years to come.

by Anonymousreply 10206/24/2017

Collins pronounced Reinking's performance as awful but he was still glad he hadn't been allowed to do it, after seeing what they producers did to Ray Parker, Jr. with his performance of "Ghostbusters". Parker was stuck performing the track in a horrifying orange jumpsuit, on a truck elevated above the stage. Below him were ghost dancers that looked like nothing out of the Ivan Reitman film and stand-ins for the film’s actors who hardly resembled the likes of Bill Murray, Dan Aykroyd or Harold Ramis. Top that off with a random cameo by Dom DeLuise as Dracula and you had just about the most bizarre sight possible. Equally bad was said to be Debbie Allen's version of "Footloose". Sporting a blinding-red jumpsuit and surrounded by an ensemble that looked straight out of a Richard Simmons workout video, this was to have captured ’80s camp at its absolute worst.

by Anonymousreply 10306/24/2017

Ann Reinking's biggest success was fucking the right men.

Fosse made her a Broadway leading lady and gave her her best film role. She danced well, but was never in the class of Gwen Verdon it Chita Rivera. She sucked as Donna McKechnie's replacement in A Chorus Line because unlike Donna and unlike Cassie, Ann Reinking blends just fine into the line.

The marriage to Herb Allen was her second coup. A billionaire husband is good for business. And she left with more money than anyone reading Datalounge will ever see. Miss Reinking does not have to take a job to make the rent.

She danced well. But Lenora Nemetz did, too. As did Pamela Sousa and Dana Moore. Reinking's liaisons were more carefully chosen.

by Anonymousreply 10406/24/2017

R103- Here's "Footloose".

by Anonymousreply 10506/25/2017

That's horrifying, R105. I'm horrified.

Allen is a fantastic dancer, but this ridiculous number undermines both her and the song. Nobody wins in this scenario.

by Anonymousreply 10606/25/2017

I saw the Reinking horror when it first aired and even now I cannot finish watching it. Dreadful. She has been very lucky in other aspects of her life however.

by Anonymousreply 10706/25/2017

I'm very disappointed. After all that build-up, and it's not bad at all. It's certainly not the schadenfreude-delight we'd been led to expect. And the dance was excellent.

The Rob Lowe-Snow White number maintains its crown as the all-time worst number on the Tonys.

by Anonymousreply 10806/25/2017

Old-skool data lounge. AT LAST

by Anonymousreply 10906/25/2017

[quote]She has been very lucky in other aspects of her life however.

Yes, except for that "My only child has Marfan Syndrome and will probably die young" thing.

by Anonymousreply 11006/25/2017

Watching the Reinking and Allen performances reminds me of how self-indulgent the 80's were. So cheesy looking back on it, but you can see how pleased they both were with themselves. The audience applauding at various points throughout both videos is hilarious. I was just a kid back then, but these types of performances were fine art to me! I grew up watching Days of Our Lives with my grandmother...I dreamed of being a business executive by day, lounge singer by night; I lived for this kind of stuff. Lol...the 80's were so bad.

by Anonymousreply 11106/25/2017

I was searching for the 1991 Oscars opening number on YouTube but couldn't find anything. It was another awful Debbie Allen choreographed number featuring Jasmine Guy from 'A Different World' as the lead dancer. Remember how hard she tried to be the 'It' girl of the 90s?

by Anonymousreply 11206/25/2017


by Anonymousreply 11306/25/2017

R104, you nailed it. Reinking is unbearable to listen to, always has been. Her speaking voice always sounded like Lucy in her later years and her singing rivals Lucy's in "Mame". She has great legs but a terrible upper body: Thick waist, short torso, no neck, broad shoulders. As a dancer, she has as much grace as a treadless tank but for a number like "Charlie's Place" from "Over Here", it suited the jitterbug number. She was so ill-suited for "Against All Odds" that it seemed almost a set-up. What compounded the controversy was that she also presented an award later on. Another question of "who is she fucking?"

She definitely has talents of observation as her work as a director and choreographer has always been good. But her contemporaries like Cheryl Clark and Sandahl Bergman were certainly better. Speaking of Bergman, do you remember the stunning dance she did with Bruce Willis on "Moonlighting?" It was Maddie's dream after learning David had been married and Sandahl plays the dream ex-wife. It has a sensuality and grace that Reinking couldn't even approach.

by Anonymousreply 11406/25/2017

It's her over dramatic "TAKE A LOOK AT ME NOW!" that made the performance a joke. Otherwise, I don't think anyone would be talking about this number (well, outside of the DL anyway...).

by Anonymousreply 11506/25/2017

R115, you're kidding. Google "Ann Reinking Oscars" and you'll find scores of entries from Rolling Stone to Telegraph.

by Anonymousreply 11606/25/2017

Yes, r116 - because of what I mentioned above.

by Anonymousreply 11706/25/2017

No R117, they're talking about it because it was and remains TERRIBLE. The articles talk about how Reinking "snorted" the song, how she got the lyrics wrong, even though they were pre-recorded and her high school style interpretive dance. They also note that it had legendary status before it showed up on YouTube and then when people saw it, it was worse than they remembered. EW said that had it not been for Rob Lowe's Snow White number a few years later, Ann's version would go down as the worst performance on the Oscars ever.

by Anonymousreply 11806/25/2017

R108 is either Reinking herself or Marlee Matlin.

by Anonymousreply 11906/25/2017

R114 makes some interesting and obvious observations, but I don't think you know much about dance. Sandahl Bergman is indeed lovely in your clip, made meaningless by the choreography, staging and partnering.

For a dancer, Donna McKechnie was a not a bad singer.

Reinking's dancing suits her body and she had the great gift of personal style and bent jazz timing. She's sultry, athletic rough AND her por de bras is gorgeous. You are quite wrong there. Oh, yeah and those legs and the most beautiful Fosse vocabulary and execution. She couldn't sing or act. Don't fault her dancing.

Chita Rivera shouldn't even know how to dance on stage....but then it's not all about body proportions, is it.

This number is silly but they each get a great flourish move and the costume change is everything...

by Anonymousreply 12006/25/2017

R120, in his review of her one woman show "Music Moves Me", LA Times dance critic Lewis Segal: It is one of the most astute observations of her talents as a dancer and even as a performer:

" As a dancer, she can deliver kicks and hip action brilliantly: unlimited, effortless, perfectly controlled. Yet her arm positions are usually either rigid or slovenly, and tension in her back and upper torso curtails her flexibility. Johnson spotlights these problems in "Ballin' the Jack," at the end of Act I, where backup dancers Sara Miles and Christina Saffran do standard shoulder-shimmies comfortably while Reinking looks positively clenched.

Once again, Reinking is presented here as if she can do anything--and she can't. Nobody can. Yes, within her range she is a star, but out of it, she can be something of a pain. "Music" moves her out of it far too frequently."

by Anonymousreply 12106/25/2017

*Thank* you, R120. I think it's the Fosse-like jazz choreography that fools some people into thinking it's not graceful. Movements are deliberately "awkward," I guess, oppositional, insouciant, off-kilter, and often sexual, not classically "beautiful" like ballet. But she was very graceful, and you're right, her port de bras is beautiful. She's not the best dancer of all time, but her style was terrific in that genre.

Sometimes I wonder about modern choreography, the kind that pop singers do in their stage shows. It seems wacky to me, like a series of random pops, poses, and gestures that have nothing to do with the music, let alone tell any kind of "story." What is that all about? Can anyone explain?

by Anonymousreply 12206/25/2017

I wonder how could she sing "Music and the Mirrors" number when she was in ACL.

by Anonymousreply 12306/25/2017

This clip of her doing her own choreography to Music and the Mirror encapsulates everything good and bad about her dancing. Indeed, that attacking style can be exciting but it does lack grace and elegance. Her kicking and footwork is good but again, she has no flexibility or amplitude in her upper body, which is mainly the result of her build, although her fractured vertebrae early in her career didn't help. Segal correctly notes that she has terrible arm movement. She's stiff and just flails her arms around wildly. There's just too much to watch and it looks messy. Combine that with her unkempt hair and Raquel Welch-esque outfit and this is just not good.

Luckily, we don't have to hear her sing.

by Anonymousreply 12406/25/2017

I always will love her cheesy overacting in songs.

I remember my boyfriend at the time saying, "After she first turns the corner, it's like she's orgasming!"

by Anonymousreply 12506/25/2017

Reinking came close to being a modern dancing movie star. Not many have ever done that. She was certainly pretty enough and her singing voice wasn't any worse than Maclaine's but man, she couldn't act. She could however dance much better and more beautifully than R124 KEEPS saying. Ann was kind of thrilling to watch. Not many said that about Juliet Prowse or Donna McKechnie....

When your legs and feet and hips are this fleek, a little lack of flexibility in the upper back is nothing. Not everyone needs to dance Jerome Robbins.

by Anonymousreply 12606/25/2017

I remember Sandahl Bergman in that dance on "Moonlighting", R114 -- it was stunning then, and still holds up beautifully today. More recently, I've seen some of Fred Astaire's legendary TV specials with Barrie Chase, and Chase's sinuous style reminds me of Bergman in that "Moonlighting" clip.

The horrible reputation of Reinking's Oscars performance is well-deserved.

by Anonymousreply 12706/25/2017

She sounded like a trained coloratura compared to Lucy in [italic]Mame[/italic].

by Anonymousreply 12806/25/2017

I thought Reinking dubbed Lucy in "Mame". Wheeeere's that boy with the bugle. Take a look at me noooooow. They sound identical.

by Anonymousreply 12906/25/2017

They lowered the keys in [italic]Annie[/italic] partly for her benefit, but she still had to talk sing parts of "I Think I'm Gonna Like It Here." Aileen Quinn had to scoop to hit those low notes but she could still reach them. Ann couldn't, so they gave her two songs she could sing.

by Anonymousreply 13006/25/2017

[quote]She couldn't sing or act.

Actually, yeah, she could. I saw her in "Goodtime Charley" playing Joan of Arc. The musical was iffy, but acting-wise, she was the best Joan I've ever seen. I've heard that she was off-and-on with her performances, but I clearly got her on an "on" night.

Also saw her in "A Chorus Line" - she was fine, but lacked the emotional connection with the part that McKechnie had. And she had to sing everything down an octave from where McKechnie sang it. The "Am I your friend, am I your friend, am I your favorite friend?" part of "Hello Twelve" sounded especially weird being sung by a female baritone.

by Anonymousreply 13106/25/2017

[quote]After she first turns the corner, it's like she's orgasming!

To be fair, that's probably the exact direction old letch John Huston gave her. "Now turn this corner, honey, and then give me your best orgasm. Bigger, bigger, I want to really see you cum!" I'm sure Aileen Quinn still dines out on her "Annie" horror stories.

by Anonymousreply 13206/25/2017

Watching that "We Got Annie" clip is a hoot. There's cute little Roger "Arthur in the Afternoon" Minami, and jolly, fat Lu Leonard plunking away at the piano. And giant Geoffrey Holder.

Ann Reinking actually looks beautiful in the dancing in this one. It's a stupid number - it made no sense with all the lyrics dropped - but it's fairly well done.

by Anonymousreply 13306/25/2017

This was part of the [italic]Annie[/italic] promo tour, then 5 years later Ann was on his show as Robert Culp's wife. Yet the [italic]Annie[/italic] movie girl who "went bad" was the one with the most prolific career after it: Amanda Peterson.

by Anonymousreply 13406/25/2017

Donna McKechnie was always a disappointment in "Music and the Mirror," and it was Michael Bennett's fault. He just couldn't top the choreography that he had given her for "Company," and the number never peaked. Most of the reviews mentioned this and compared it unfavorably to "Tick Tock." The best part of "MATM" was actually the dialogue breaks, which McKechnie acted beautifully.

Reinking's choreography for that part of the dance - I don't know if she did it herself - is actually better than what McKechnie was stuck with.

by Anonymousreply 13506/25/2017

John Huston (or possibly Joe Layton) appeared to put more thought into staging the new songs than the old ones, which they expected to sell themselves. There's a trailer on DVD and Blu-ray that has a really short clip of the originally conceived version of "Never Fully Dressed"; it looked like it was more coordinated but showed off a little much for a PG-rated film. Keep in mind though that a woman did the choreography, and a woman designed the costumes.

by Anonymousreply 13606/25/2017

I'd like to see the original version of "Easy Street" that they filmed. For a while, there was a quick clip of it in the trailer. I never thought that number worked as they had it in the final print.

by Anonymousreply 13706/25/2017

After the acting jobs dried up, Aileen Quinn turned to streetwalking.

by Anonymousreply 13806/25/2017

A sassy 45-year-old Aileen working the autograph show circuit.

by Anonymousreply 13906/25/2017

Aileen Quinn should have had a much bigger career.

by Anonymousreply 14006/25/2017

Aileen Quinn, Sandahl Bergman, Jasmine Guy....humpphhh!

I thought this was a thread about ME!

Take a look at me nooow!

by Anonymousreply 14106/25/2017

Did anyone notice that Reinking's voice on the Chicago revival CD sounds almost exactly like Gwen Verdon's voice on the OCR?

by Anonymousreply 14206/25/2017

R135, it wasn't Bennett's choreography, it was McKechnie's. Bennett was busy with other aspects of the show and they were still struggling with Donna's number so she sort of put steps to it and it stuck. Bennett claimed he wanted to "fix it" when they went to Broadway but it never happened. Bennett's original staging, somewhat recreated in the Record Breaking performance, was to have Cassie joined by four of the male dancers and the number would turn into Cassie remembering the numbers she did that stopped the shows. All of a sudden, the mirrors would turn, the male dancers would head to the wings and Cassie would be back alone onstage. Reality crashes her act, the same as Ben in his Follies number. The guys were very upset at being taken out of the number at McKechnie's request.

by Anonymousreply 14306/25/2017

The scene in All That Jazz, where Anne Reinking dances the routine with the 12 year movie-daughter (Erszebet Foldi) of Fosse (Roy Scheider) really demonstrated Reinking's legs to be unlike those of other dancers Her legs were specialized for Fosse routines. She had enormous thigh muscles spanning the hip joint (unlike most other dancers where the muscles are more evenly developed. These would be the sartorius and the portions of the quadripceps that control flexion from the hip and knee simultaneously ----- a very Fosse move. Anne Reinking's body was trained for Fosse dance and after a while, really somewhat weird in all other dances. Her legs are not striking, they are weird. It is why she always wore such high cuts in her costumes. (I believe someone here was looking for underpants?) If she didn't she looked hippy. So instead she looks like she has no waist.

All of this merely suggesting that perhaps she was controlled by the mentor she was with and I don't think she really ever fully adapted to anything after Fosse. Her voice was CLEARLY not her gift, but her phrasing, her delivery of anything she has ever sung, merely suggests she is just not the brightest bulb in the strand. She just comes off as so stupid. I feel sorry for her for having such tremendous drive and ambition, but not the intelligence or real talent to support either.

by Anonymousreply 14406/25/2017

R131, the line is "A diaphragm, a diaphragm, I thought a diaphragm was up here where you breathe."

by Anonymousreply 14506/25/2017

Anyone anywhere suggesting that Reinking was the best Fosse interpreter is an idiot. Gwen Verdon has that all sewn up. Always has. Probably always will. Reinking sounded like Verdon when she replaced her in the show's original run, but she can't dance like her. She lacks fluidity, in large part because she's all arms and legs. No torso. Nothing with which to be fluid. The broad shoulders make it more pronounced. The back injury during "Over, Here!" may have made it worse. Watching Verdon dance is like watching a thoroughbred horse as it goes through its paces. Reinking more resembles a clumsy foal that is all legs.

Reinking dances well. She always did. But she was never great. Donna McKechnie was a ten times better dancer, a hundred times better singer, and a thousand times better actress.

And what the fuck, R120? That 'costume change' is a video edit. The actual change doesn't happen in the video and it didn't happen during performance, either.

by Anonymousreply 14606/26/2017

If you watch Carol Haney, even in the Kiss Me Kate duet with Fosse, she's also better at the style than Reinking. Reinking has an athleticism that is exciting to watch because you can see the effort she's putting into it, which is the opposite of what dancing is supposed to be about, which is ease of movement. In this brief clip from 'Sweet Charity", you can see that McKechnie performs the same moves with far more fluidity and grace than Reinking. And she builds the character through her movement.

by Anonymousreply 14706/26/2017

When Debbie Allen went on vacation, Bebe Neuwirth stepped up from the role of Nickie and played Charity.

She was also better at the Fosse style than Reinking.

And why the holy fuck did Reinking make all those changes to Fosse's choreography for CHICAGO? I undestand that "All That Jazz" was staged differently. But Reinking's changes throughout the Hot Honey Rag are intolerable.

by Anonymousreply 14806/26/2017

I smell miss warwick. answering his own posts again. lonely old man.

by Anonymousreply 14906/26/2017

Hot Honey Rag was allegedly the only number in the revival that used Fosse's original choreography. There was credit to Fosse in the program and there was some publicity about it. The rest of the choreography was credited to Reinking "in the style of" Fosse.Any changes probably occurred later in the Broadway run to accommodate some of those replacements who could barely dance.

by Anonymousreply 15006/26/2017

Bruce Vilanch was a writer for the 1989 Oscars, and describes the Rob Lowe/Snow White debacle firsthand:

by Anonymousreply 15106/26/2017

The choreography on HHR is the choreography that Fosse re-did for Reinking. He made other changes for her like Me and My Baby and completely redid Roxie adding tambourines. Verdon did new Roxie number on tour but kept the original HHR which exists on YouTube.

by Anonymousreply 15206/26/2017

Verdon and Rivera did Hot Honey Rag TWICE on TV, once very early on, well before Reinking went into it, and it's pretty much the same as the one in the Encores/revival version (the version linked above is a month or two before Rivera left the show)..

Reinking did "The Strut" version of "Me and My Baby." So did Penny Worth. Kander and Ebb wouldn't let it be done for Encores, and it's permanently in mothballs.

There's one of those "Dancers Over 40" things on YouTube, and Penny and Carolyn Kirsch do Hot Honey Rag (it's just in a rehearsal studio with piano) - and it's the same. Only Penny is able to do the cartwheel at the end, though.

by Anonymousreply 15306/27/2017

Indeed, it is "pretty much" the same. But the changes are not as good as what was replaced.

by Anonymousreply 15406/27/2017

Penny Worth talking about her audition for the tour. It rolls over automatically to "Nowadays/Hot Honey Rag" - Penny Worth, who must be in her 50s in this video, has a rocking body. She looks fantastic. Noteworthy since both Reinking and McKechnie have gotten "thick" with age.

by Anonymousreply 15506/27/2017

Of course, these girls offer the definitive "Hot Honey Rag."

by Anonymousreply 15606/27/2017

I always wondered why Travolta and Patricia Birch didn't get Ann to play Cha Cha in "Grease". Travolta knew her from "Over Here" and the revamped "Born to Hand Jive" is quite similar to "Charlie's Place", also choreographed by Birch.

by Anonymousreply 15706/28/2017

I don't know what that is at R156, but it's underwhelming, isn't it? We don't need a male Roxie and Velma, the energy is low, and the lighting is awful anyway, making it look like a pair of dancing shirts. You can't even see their legs.

by Anonymousreply 15807/01/2017

[quote] I smell

You should have stopped there, R149.

by Anonymousreply 15907/01/2017


by Anonymousreply 16007/01/2017
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