We need to talk about We Need to Talk About Kevin

If you didn't like it, OP, why do you want to talk about it?

I really liked it, if "liked" is the word you want to use to describe what I felt.

But then again, I know a fair number of people with personality disorders. So this film gave me chills.

The whole film is supposed to be the mother's perception of what happened so it makes sense that the father character was such a doofus. It's her memory of what happened. I agree that John C. Reilly was miscast. I didn't buy the two of them together for a second.

I think she didn't move out of town because she felt guilt and wanted on some level to be punished. She also probably didn't want to leave the area where her son was being incarcerated and where her family had been.

I thought the film was very good myself, if only because Tilda was awesome. I thought the ambiguous cutting back and forth between present and flashback was great and I didn't mind the heavy handed imagery. It was very effective.

[quote]I agree that John C. Reilly was miscast. I didn't buy the two of them together for a second.

How about him and Jodie Foster as a couple? That was one big eyeroll...

Completely agree with R2's analysis.

Totally heavy handed; I felt bludgeoned, and yet I'm not sure I know what the point was supposed to be.

Idiotic portrayals. Pretentiously arty. Trying so hard to be profound.

But apparently, this is Tilda Swinton's thing. "I am Love" was equally overwrought.

I think her Oscar has gone to her head. I used to like her.

It wasn't clear to me that it was Mom's POV.

Nevertheless, it was ludicrous that the parents didn't bring the kid to shrinks early on. Or that Dad could be so ignorant or neglectful of the obvious warning signs.

Where were the kid's teachers? Didn't he attend elementary school?

And the parents buy a troubled kid like that two different archery sets??

Why would Mom live in the same town? She could have moved 20 miles away and gone unnoticed. Did she not expect to constantly see her neighbors in the neighborhood grocery store?

I think the premise in and of itself is fascinating enough that I would appreciate a more conventional approach to showing what it's like to be the parents of a school shooter after the fact.

Do you go the movies expecting them to portray only the people whose thoughts and actions would parallel yours in a similar situation? Or, the people whose behavior would only follow only the most rational patterns?

For me, one of the main issues that was raised was the role of nature vs nurture in creating a sociopath. For a more conventional approach, I'm sure there are Lifetime TV movies or ABC TV movies of the week which would deal with that, show the healing, learning to move on, community coming together after the tragedy, and similar sentimental bullshit. Personally, I prefer something like this.

"Nevertheless, it was ludicrous that the parents didn't bring the kid to shrinks early on. Or that Dad could be so ignorant or neglectful of the obvious warning signs"

Are you kidding? This goes on in many families. They do not go to shrinks.

But the film showed no balance. We never saw Kevin even remotely normal and loving and caring.

We never saw the mother reach out to Kevin's teachers or to child psychiatrists.

We never saw the father sympathetic to the mother's suspicions. And an archery set for such a child?!?

I mean, come on!

No balance = no drama.

Some grannies left during the screening I went to as well. But they didn't FLOUNCE the way I picture OP did.

But wouldn't the kid's teachers have noticed he was a little off? At least from being in diapers as a 7 year old, if nothing else?

"We never saw the mother reach out to Kevin's teachers or to child psychiatrists"

The parents of crazy kids tend not to

Except Tilda plays the mother like an intelligent and sophisticated person, not as white trash. Just look at her fashionable haircuts, shoes and coats as evidence!

She stayed because she felt guilty and wanted to be punished. This was made pretty clear when she ate the eggs that were crushed during the supermarket incident.

The father was clueless and the kid manipulated him. The Tilda character was always trying to please the kid, and they both indulged him. These parents would not go to shrinks or teachers for "help" as they wouldn't in real life, either.

WEll, she got her wish!

R7 You should check out "Beautiful Boy"

bump for Kevin.

Though I liked the actor who played Kevin, I think he was too attractive. I think it would have been better with a more ordinary-looking kid.

Any nudity?

Thanks R8 - u nailed it!

Swinton's character didn't react like I would have - but I'm not the privileged mother of a psychopath.

It was dark and challenging and unpleasant - and I loved it.

Disagree with R20 tho - think the actors playing Kevin were great! And their physical attractiveness leaky believability to the character's ability to get away with it and pass as normal - and even charm - when he wanted too...

Amazing portrayal of a psychopath. Hard pressed to think of another film that does it as as well - ? (anyone?)

Kinda amusing when I saw it with my partner (gay male), the cinema was packed for a Sunday morning session - barely got seats and those were in the second row from the front. When the lights went up at the end and I glanced back I saw what appeared to be a full house made up of childless couples of varying ages and genders. And most - like ourselves! - had small, slightly smug smiles on their faces - and were whispering and nodding sagely...

Having children ain't necessarily always a blessing...

Fantastic p

Sorry bout typos on that last post - hard to type on my iphone! Meal culpa! Hope it vaguely made sense...

Clearly the film was too subtle you, OP. You need to go and read the book, then you might understand things better.

The novel is from Eva's point of view and she basically spends Kevin's entire life trying to persuade her husband that something is "wrong" with Kevin and he just thinks she is a bad mother.

WNTTAK is one of my favourite books because of the way it addresses the expectations placed on women, and also the way our society has become totally child-centric.

It's also a metaphor for the sleepy-headed oblivion of American society before the WTC was attacked (you wouldn't pick this up from the movie, I don't think).

I thought the film was a great adaptation which captured the spirit of the book without being too slavish about it.

I guess I do have to read the book because nothing you say is evident in the lousy film.

I think the kid should have been ordinary- looking because the kids that do these kind of spree killings are ordinary looking. Good-looking, sexy kids are satied with lots of attention and friends and dates - they do not have to go on a killing spree for attention. Parents that indulge kids do so because that is what they do, has nothing to do with their looks.

Remember that woman...I think she was an attorney in Manhatten, she sat by and let her monster of a husband kill their adopted daughter? So, maybe Tilda was thinking of that?

bump

I liked this film very much. Yes, I had the same questions the OP did but her reactions were authentic to the character.

She wanted the perfect family and didn't want anything to get in the way. She would never go to a shrink because that would be admitting she's a bad parent (at least in her mind).

It seems to me that the kid focused most of his abuse on his mother, that's why he let her live...that's the ultimate act of cruelty.

He was very friendly and "normal"to his dad and sister. He probably was quiet and stayed under the radar at school so he wasn't noticed much. A lot of these school shooters were quiet loner types.

Also, the fact that he focused so much of his bad behavior on his mother probably added to her sense of isolation. No one except her could see the evil, if she said anything it may not be believed. That kid is very manipulative -- that scene where she threw him down and broke his arm was chilling! He made that happen so he could have something to hold against her.

The 3 kids who played Kevin were excellent, they looked very much alike. The fact that he was good looking and from an upper middle class family meant he could get away with much more (think Mitt Romney).

bump

I don't know how John C. Reilly gets work. He's a big stooge.

I love PT Anderson, but why the fuck would ever believe that John C. Reilly would be a porn star?!?!? I like him in certain things, but seeing him fuck would make me regurgitate my intestines.

[quote]She wanted the perfect family and didn't want anything to get in the way. She would never go to a shrink because that would be admitting she's a bad parent (at least in her mind).

What movie were you watching? She clearly is ambivalent about family life. Did you miss the many, many times that is suggested? She didn't like being pregnant, that's for sure. She tells her son she'd rather be in Paris than dealing with him. I don't think she gave a rat's ass if she was being a good parent to Kevin at a certain point because nothing she did made the slightest impact on his behavior.

At first I was shocked that two people like that wouldn't take their child to a shrink, but I guess if Dad doesn't think anything is wrong with Kevin it would be tough for Mom to persuade him. At least there could have been a scene where they discuss it or where Kevin does go to a shrink but plays nice and persuades the doc he is ok.

Not sure why the entire town was so against her, it really wasn't her fault. Would that type of thing really destroy the career of a travel writer anyway? To the point where she has to work as a secretary in some shitty travel agency? Those scenes felt false.

When she takes Kevin to dinner, why does she allow him to talk like that to her? She seems so no-nonsense in earlier scenes. Has he just worn her down?

In any case, Swinton was brilliant, the Oscar snub was probably the most glaring of last year. She was as good if not better than all of the nominees.

I'm 50/50 on the direction. Sometimes the visuals were absolutely brilliant, but at other times I felt I was being bludgeoned. I get it - red. RED! The house is sterile, just like the family in it! Especially during the reveal of what Kevin did, which played too close to Lifetime MOW style.

The director did "Morvern Callar" and that is a great film, much less determined but somehow more accomplished and mature. I'm definitely looking forward to what she does next.

It didn't make sense that the lady would smack Tilda's character when it was made clear her own husband and daughter were also victims of Kevins.

I liked the movie. The actors who played Kevin, particularly the young child one, were good.

[quote]He was very friendly and "normal"to his dad and sister.

He blinded his sister in one eye with liquid drain cleaner.

"very friendly"?

Yes and in another scene he goes after the sister with a vacuum cleaner.

It should have been called "We Need to Talk About What an Idiot My Husband Is".

I found this story to be more poignant after the Newtown incident. The thought of Adam Lanza's mother staying in town (had she lived) is incomprehensible.

I got the impression that she stayed in the same town because she was practicing penance. In the book, she was somewhat indignant towards the locals when it first happened and while the movie didn't explicitly show this, I think it did a good job of showing it through her lifestyle and accommodations to the "common folk" in town and their violent reactions to seeing her.

Why didn't the father think anything was really wrong? Well, there are a lot of stupid people in this world, and many of them are parents. A lot of parents are totally blind to what their kids really are. The mother of the horrible Adam Lanza is a good example of this.

Why didn't she move? Well, maybe she was unable to. Maybe the legal bills wiped her out financially. She seems unable to find decent work (due to her notoriety, I suppose, but it's still kind of hard to believe), so she takes a crummy office job. She's basically living in hell, and she used to live in enviable circumstances. The film kind of implies that she thinks the way she's living is all she deserves, which is why she doesn't make more of an effort to change her situation.

I saw the movie and read the book. I thought the movie was well done. But the story was hard to stomach. In addition to their atrocious Kevin, Swinton's character and her husband have a daughter. They leave her alone with their very, very, very disturbed son (how on earth could they be stupid enough to do that?) and their little girl ends up with some kind of caustic subtance poured into her eye, blinding her in that eye and disfiguring her. The clueless husband figures the child got a hold of the caustic cleaner and ended up getting in her eye; she got a hold of the cleaner because her MOTHER irresponsibly left it out. Swinton's character knows she did NOT leave it out, but the husband refuses to believe that Kevin had anything to do with his daughter's "accident." Swinton's character makes a rule that Kevin is never to be left alone with his sister again. She later asks the little girl what happened and she said "I got something in my eye and Kevin helped my get it out"....and that's all she said.

SPOILER. At the end of the book and movie, Kevin is being sent to do the rest of his time (he gets a light sentence because her was underage at the time he murdered a bunch of people, with a bow and arrow, no less) in an adult prison after turning 18. He seems somewhat afraid of this prospect and warms up to his mother more. The end has his mother wairing for his return, his room kept ready for when he comes back. Despite never having anything approximating positive feelings for her son, she nevertheless "loves" him, blood is thicker than water, and all that. The ending is infuriating, but plausible. You always hear the parents of children who commit unimaginable atrocities say they still love their horrible offspring. Thank God I never had any children.

OP, you actually walked out of the theater while the film was still playing? That's such a prissy move.

[quote]I think her Oscar has gone to her head. I used to like her.

Are you retarded? Had you never seen anything from early in her career? Her taste in projects really hasn't changed much.

[quote]But the film showed no balance. We never saw Kevin even remotely normal and loving and caring.

You understand that this was about a psychopath, right? You can't possibly be as stupid as you sound. You'd never have figured out how to get to the theater on your own.

Ezra millers best role

I never saw the film, but the book is amazing. I don't really understand why someone would see it or read the book and expect a story about people not making poor decisions or being put into bad situations. If everything was perfect, there would be no story at all.