I just read the Patricia Bosworth biography.
So the tiny penis pretty much destroyed him, right?
I just read the Patricia Bosworth biography.
So the tiny penis pretty much destroyed him, right?
|by Anonymous||reply 310||10/29/2015|
The Princess Tinymeat story began and ended with Kenneth Anger as far as I know (and care).
|by Anonymous||reply 1||03/20/2012|
No, the car accident destroyed him. It ruined his looks and caused him to become hopelessly addicted to drugs and booze.
|by Anonymous||reply 2||03/20/2012|
Life in the closet destroyed him.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||03/20/2012|
It was the car accident. He felt like he never recovered his looks. It was the beginning of the end.
|by Anonymous||reply 4||03/20/2012|
He was a hot mess (the hottest, admittedly) before that accident though.
|by Anonymous||reply 5||03/20/2012|
R3 is right.
|by Anonymous||reply 6||03/20/2012|
[quote]No, the car accident destroyed him. It ruined his looks and caused him to become hopelessly addicted to drugs and booze.
No, he was addicted to drugs and booze for years before the accident.
The Bosworth biography says Monty was extremely embarrassed by his small penis and talked about it frequently with friends.
|by Anonymous||reply 7||03/20/2012|
The strangest part of that book was when he went with some straight friends down to the leather bar at the end of Christopher Street back in the 60s. He went in by himself and eventually someone waiting in the car went in to retrieve him. He was on a pool table, semi-conscious, being pawed over by a crowd of leather men who were undressing him. The straight friend, scooped him up, put him back in the car, and got him out of there, much to Monty's chagrin I'm sure. P. Bosworth's bio of Monty is the gold standard for biographies. Loved it.
|by Anonymous||reply 8||03/20/2012|
I still can't for the life of me really tell a difference between the pre and post crash Monty. Everyone makes such a big deal about how he lost his looks. It's the same face! In his later films he looks a bit older and haggard, but he's certainly no elephant man.
|by Anonymous||reply 9||03/20/2012|
I think you mean the BEST part of that book, R8! I probably read it 30 years ago and still remember that. Didn't they take him down to some docks as well? I liked that and the scene when he performed Hamlet for his brother late at night on the beach.
Sunny Clift always seemed like a good role. There's a great film bio of Clift to be made, if the right people ever get involved.
|by Anonymous||reply 10||03/20/2012|
In any sense of the word, R 9.
|by Anonymous||reply 11||03/20/2012|
It's bloody amazing that he continued to work after the accident. Not only was he absolutely hideous, his addictions had accelerated to the point that he could barely work through the day.
|by Anonymous||reply 12||03/20/2012|
R12, he wasn't "absolutely hideous," he looked about the same. Not sure what you think is 'hideous." His face lost some of the dewy youthfulness. It was harder, less symmetrical, but hardly "hideous." He was not "gorgeous" any longer. But he was still handsome.
He finished Raintree County once he healed (in constant pain) and you could see, shot for shot, the pre and post accident scenes filmed.
The tragedy is what the accident did to his self-image, self esteem and self confidence. Destroyed them. And destroyed him.
|by Anonymous||reply 13||03/20/2012|
How can anyone not tell the difference?
|by Anonymous||reply 14||03/20/2012|
[quote]The Bosworth biography says Monty was extremely embarrassed by his small penis and talked about it frequently with friends.
And I thought some of MY friends were boring!
|by Anonymous||reply 15||03/20/2012|
R9, I find it odd that you can't tell. He was exceedingly handsome pre-accident. After the accident his face had noticeably changed, not ugly or hideous, just different.
|by Anonymous||reply 16||03/20/2012|
But it was perfect for The Misfits, where he was supposed to be something of a rough-hewn cowboy.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||03/20/2012|
I think the book said something about the left side of his face becoming somewhat paralyzed after the operations to fix his jaw. Some nerve damage occured. Those pictures seem to be taken years apart. We need to see some before and after pics from Raintree County itself.
I don't know that he was in the closet that much after a certain time in his life. If the book is to be believed, he was openly cruising guys and going to 'dangerous' places for man on man sex. At one point his father visited his home as a surprise and found Monty in bed with several naked young men. His Mother and his brother knew that he was gay.
I remember there was much speculation about Elizabeth and Monty getting married in all the old movie star magazines (Yes, I'm an eldergay.) and then it was all gone and there was no more written about it. I am assuming that he told her what was up and she decided that they would just be good friends from then on.
|by Anonymous||reply 18||03/20/2012|
I know some of you will call bullshit, but true (and not proud):
many years ago when I first moved to NYC I met an older black guy - aprox late 60's or so - at a bar - went back to his apt in TriBeCa and he had all these pictures of MC...after a few drinks I asked why and he said he was his last boyfriend before he died
had a few more drinks (all he drank is daiquiris) and went to bed with him - excepppptttt he had an incredibly small penis - like so small it was a turn off -- so they shared a common trait
|by Anonymous||reply 19||03/20/2012|
If you really read Patricia Bosworth's book OP, you would know that his mother and the car crash were the things that played a large part in Cliffs screwed up life. His mother, in order to over-compensate for her illegitimate birth, went on a pointless and obsessive pursuit to get her and her children accepted by "society". The endless task of jumping through hoops only to be rejected over and over again had to have messed with his head. Bosworth also points out that Cliff didn't really drink and never touched drugs until after the crash. His relationship with the overbearing and manipulative Libby Holman didn't help matters as well.
|by Anonymous||reply 20||03/20/2012|
R19, it could've been Lorenzo James, who Bosworth refers to as Clift's personal secretary, but in reality, some sources say, was his live-in boyfriend.
|by Anonymous||reply 21||03/20/2012|
I worked for a man that grew up next door to Cliff in NYC. He said one day, when he was about 17 and home alone, Cliff showed up at his door. He was pretty loaded and kept complimenting my former boss about his belt buckle. He then started trying to undo his belt and get his pants off. About then, his father came home and Cliff got the hell out of there. After he left, the father was freaking out because he was convinced Cliff was supplying his son with drugs. It was very well known at that time Cliff was a junkie.
|by Anonymous||reply 22||03/20/2012|
So how old was MC at the time, r22?
|by Anonymous||reply 23||03/20/2012|
R20 I just finished the Bosworth book and Clift was a terrible alcoholic before the accident. His friends would take him home and he would passed out and wet himself and they would have to clean him up and undress him for bed.
|by Anonymous||reply 24||03/20/2012|
I'm guessing, going by my boss's age at the time he told me the story and the age he was when it happened, it was around the early to mid 1960s, so I guess late 30s, early 40s.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||03/20/2012|
[quote]Bosworth also points out that Cliff didn't really drink and never touched drugs until after the crash.
If I recall correctly. wasn't it actually booze that caused the accident? He left a small party where they were all drinking. Elizabeth Taylor told the story a few times (she cradled him until the ambulance came).
|by Anonymous||reply 26||03/20/2012|
OP = fish
(only fish use the term "penis")
|by Anonymous||reply 27||03/20/2012|
I'll post an excerpt that explain the accident when I get home, but alcohol wasn't directly involved. Clift was being guided down a curving road by his friend on a foggy night.
|by Anonymous||reply 28||03/20/2012|
Anybody know of a shirtless Monty pic?
|by Anonymous||reply 29||03/20/2012|
R29 For you .... enjoy :-)
|by Anonymous||reply 30||03/20/2012|
R13, sorry to disagree, but many of us have EYES.
Clift lost all of the bone structure in his face because he broke so many bones in his face. He was hideous. His looks were GONE. You'd never know he was as hot and handsome as he was in "A Place in the Sun."
He was not believable as a romantic lead anymore. Why anyone hired him is a mystery. And, no, he wasn't such big box office that they had to hire him. Being so impaired by drugs and drink, his acting talent wasn't a reason either.
|by Anonymous||reply 31||03/20/2012|
R18, according to Elizabeth, she knew his sexuality right away and never considered him as a romantic possibility. He was not closeted really in the times he lived. He kind of did what he wanted- without nearly as much discretion or care to cover up, as say Rock Hudson did. Rock was not an addict, but he sure liked to drink.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||03/20/2012|
R13 While I agree with you that Cliffs looks were harmed by the crash, the picture you posted was taken many years after the wreck. What we are seeing there is not so much the damage caused by the crash, but damage caused by too much drink and drugs.
|by Anonymous||reply 33||03/20/2012|
[qutoe]according to Elizabeth, she knew his sexuality right away and never considered him as a romantic possibility.
Well, once he squealed in her ear like a little girl "I loved you in 'National Velvet.' I've seen it fourteen times. Do you have Roddy McDowell's phone number?", the magic was lost.
|by Anonymous||reply 34||03/20/2012|
"Life in the closet destroyed him."
No, I don't think so. There were plenty of closeted actors around; I don't think many of them embarked on "slow suicide" like Clift did.
His domineering, snooty mother fucked up his psyche long before he became famous. Becoming rich and famous didn't help matters. In Bosworth's book she relates an incident where Clift told his mother "you are such a cunt, such a cunt!" To which she replied "Monty...why are you doing this to me?" Probably because she was driving him nuts.
Whatever drinking or drug taking he did before the car crash, it was nowhere near as bad as after the accident. He was in terrible pain due to his injuries and tormented by the loss of his looks; he medicated himself into oblivion with drink and drugs.
According to Bosworth's book he was hairy as an ape and had to periodically remove the pelts of hair from his arms and chest.
His face, formerly perfect, was completely different after the accident. He was no longer stunningly handsome; he was at best average, although some people described him as "disfigured." The loss was soul-damaging. His good looks were, as one friend described it "one less thing for him to worry about."
I thought his performance as a mental defective in "Judgement at Nuremberg" was brilliant. He should have won the Oscar for it. If only he and Judy Garland had ones Oscars for that movie! That really would have been something.
|by Anonymous||reply 35||03/20/2012|
Monty Clift after the accident:
|by Anonymous||reply 36||03/20/2012|
r12 at link:
|by Anonymous||reply 37||03/20/2012|
Tammy Cruise was the re-incarnatia of Monty Cliff - the only reason Hollywood saw and potential in her.
|by Anonymous||reply 38||03/20/2012|
I recall Clift having some rather deep facial scarring after the wreck, particularly on his left side. It was obvious even with movie makeup.
Taylor got to him before the ambulance and she pulled some of his teeth out of his mouth so he could breathe. I'm sure losing teeth didn't do much for his self-esteem. I don't know, but I always assumed those were his front teeth.
Clift was a notorious drunk before the wreck. It may have provided him with an excuse for staying drunk afterward, but it wasn't the cause.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||03/20/2012|
Not the whole story, r33. Clift was malnourished in the photo from The Defector. Or as we say today, anorexic.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||03/20/2012|
Interestingly, the publisher's lawyers (Harcourt Brace) made Bosworth delete some of the best material in the book. She really had some amazing scenes about the gay life in New York, and Clift's piss fetish, etc. But some of the scenes involved people who were still alive in the late 1970s.
|by Anonymous||reply 41||03/20/2012|
"According to Bosworth's book he was hairy as an ape and had to periodically remove the pelts of hair from his arms and chest."
Did he do it by shaving or waxing? (Did they wax in those days?)
|by Anonymous||reply 42||03/20/2012|
Whatever his looks or demeanor, he remaains one of the few true movie stars with that certain aura or charismaa or indefinable "it" that served him until the end. He remains mesmerizing to watch.
|by Anonymous||reply 43||03/20/2012|
Here are side by side comparison shots of Monty during the filming of "Raintree County". On the left, in a scene from the movie, Monty at 36 already looks aged, but still possesses the boyish handsomeness of earlier years. On the right, in a studio publicity shot, with his face reconstructed, elements of his face look familiar, but for the most part he's barely recognizable.
|by Anonymous||reply 44||03/20/2012|
Thanks R44 for posting that. All I can say is HOLY SHIT! That is a remarkable difference. Aside from how the whole structure of his face is changed, there is a real vacant look in his eyes in the after pic. It's like watching Carrie Fisher in Return of the Jedi. You can just tell there are unknown quantities of drugs racing through his bloodstream.
|by Anonymous||reply 45||03/20/2012|
"Did he do it by shaving or waxing? (Did they wax in those days?)'
Probably shaving. Bosworth also said he got electrolysis treatments. I saw a picture of him barechested; he must not have taken care of the hair problem for a while, because his chest was hairy as a gorilla's. This was later in his life, after the car crash. I guess he just didn't give a fuck anymore.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||03/20/2012|
Nair and some other hair removal products were on the market back then. It's possible he used something like that.
|by Anonymous||reply 47||03/20/2012|
I don't see anything wrong with him having a small dick, as long as he was submissive and knew his place.
|by Anonymous||reply 48||03/20/2012|
How do we know he had a small cock? How big was it? Are there measurements?
|by Anonymous||reply 49||03/20/2012|
I recall reading something in the NY Post circa 1983 from a book -- someone in the NYC morgue commented how small Clift's dick was as he was lying dead on a slab.
|by Anonymous||reply 50||03/20/2012|
|by Anonymous||reply 51||03/20/2012|
One would assume a flaccid, dead cock would be small, R50
|by Anonymous||reply 52||03/20/2012|
[quote]If only he and Judy Garland had ones Oscars for that movie!
Ewe no, am knot even gonna say "Oh, deer" because Aye simply can't understand this won.
You're/your I get as a phonetic mind-to-hand command
They're/their/there I tolerate for similar reasons
Where/were or know/now/no I can see as keyboard slips
...but won/one - and then to incorrectly add an "s"...
|by Anonymous||reply 53||03/20/2012|
What about loose for lose?
|by Anonymous||reply 54||03/20/2012|
r54 loose for lose is almost always someone who doesn't know the difference. Like lay/lie or affect/effect.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||03/20/2012|
You know, both Judy and Marilyn Monroe thought Clift was screwed-up beyond belief.
|by Anonymous||reply 56||03/20/2012|
...and that's a lot to say coming from those two!
|by Anonymous||reply 57||03/20/2012|
I can tell the difference, of course, between Monty pre- and post-accident. And perhaps Monty had difficulty dealing with his loss of looks. But he certainly wasn't hideous, and it's quite possible that his loss of looks was more a function of aging than his being an accident survivor. His loss of looks post-accident was similar to the loss of looks Tyrone Power experienced as he matured.
I'd easily equate the sex appeal difference between Monty in The Heiress and Suddenly Last Summer with that between Power in The Razor's Edge and Witness for the Prosecution.
|by Anonymous||reply 58||03/20/2012|
Count me as another gay Helen Keller who really doesn't see much of a difference in how he looked. It certainly seems like the same man. It's not like I would watch him onscreen and think who the hell is that. Methinks much of the supposed difference in the visage is more due to knowledge of his accident and then searching for minute flaws and changes. And I never thought he was that handsome to begin with. He was no Errol Flynn in the looks department.
|by Anonymous||reply 59||03/20/2012|
Monty hated his camp name of Montgomery Clit.
|by Anonymous||reply 60||03/20/2012|
R58 - Clift's loss of looks was a result of natural aging combined with a poor diet and years of drug and alcohol abuse. When he appeared in "The Young Lions," which was post-accident, his face had settled and he was starting to look good again. But by the time the '60s rolled along, he looked worse for wear. In "The Misfits" and "Judgment at Nuremburg" he looked twice his age. Also in late '50s or early '60s he had work done around his eyes which gave him an unflattering beady-eye look.
|by Anonymous||reply 61||03/20/2012|
All the nonsense aside about his cock and looks, he was imho the greatest actor of his generation from "The Search" up to and including "The Misfits." Rent "The Search" sometime--overpowering, and his instinctive empathy for the child leaves a lasting impression on you. "A Place in the Sun," "From Here to Eternity," the much neglected "I Confess," "Miss Lonelyhearts" and "Wild River" are all testaments to his ability. I always felt that when watching Clift there was something radiating from inside that was almost eerie. I do know Brando revered him, and if I am not mistaken, got the part of Terry Malone because Clift was not interested.
|by Anonymous||reply 62||03/20/2012|
Did Clift ever hook up with Brando or James Dean?
|by Anonymous||reply 63||03/20/2012|
Is it true that Monty was uncut?
|by Anonymous||reply 64||03/20/2012|
r61 = blind person.
It was the accident, dear.
|by Anonymous||reply 65||03/20/2012|
Thank you R30
|by Anonymous||reply 66||03/20/2012|
R63 I was wondering the same thing. James Dean idolized Montgomery Clift.
|by Anonymous||reply 67||03/20/2012|
According to the Bosworth book Clift and Brando had a rivalry and were not close. However once Clift began to destroy himself Brando made an unexpected visit to him and begged him to get help.
|by Anonymous||reply 68||03/20/2012|
Here are some quotes from the Bosworth biography.
Regarding his drug use, he was far gone by the time he made "From Here to Eternity":
[quote]By this time Monty had become addicted to a whole spectrum of sedative drugs, including barbiturates, tranquilizers, and his almost daily bottle of Scotch. Monty, of course, believed he was drinking and taking sedatives in order to survive - to survive his success, his fame, his dreams of greater power and achievement. He would sometimes say the pressures in his life made him drink more, but he would never admit that drinking was causing pressure - nor would he admit to the conflict he was continuing to have about his sexual identity.
[quote]"He wanted to love women but he was attracted to men, and he crucified himself for it," Deborah Kerr said.
[quote]How he managed to function creatively remained a mystery to the people who saw him stumble and fall at parties, who listened to him ramble and free-associate almost nonsensically when he was on a combination of alcohol and drugs. "His drinking was more deadly than Spencer Tracey's," said a cast member. "Drunk or sober, Spencer knew who he was, but when Monty drank he seemed to lose his identity and almost melt before your eyes."
|by Anonymous||reply 69||03/20/2012|
I just read in this week's Newsweek that Eleanor Clift was married to Monty's brother whom she said basically walked off the set of Mad Men (the whole issue is dedicated to the look and feel of MM era). I somehow never knew that link.
|by Anonymous||reply 70||03/20/2012|
Even before the accident, his drinking was so heavy it may have cost him the Oscar.
During the filming of "From Here to Eternity" he got absolutely shitfaced every night, with Frank Sinatra and/or writer James Jones. The studio did not approve, and at Oscar promo time they backed his co-star Burt Lancaster, who wasn't drinking himself into a career implosion. Of course having two nominees split the vote and neither won, but that should have been Clift's Oscar - the year he was brilliant in a big critical and financial hit.
|by Anonymous||reply 71||03/20/2012|
Regarding his penis:
[quote]...many other women say he was a passive lover and often impotent. He needed constant sexual reassurance, and he was able to get that from men more easily than women. According to Ben Bagley, Monty had a small penis and was extremely embarrassed about it.
[quote]"He talked about it all the time to me," said the record producer Bagley. "I think it was the secret tragedy of his life. A lot of homosexuals gossiped about Monty's problem because gays but great importance on the size of their cocks."
[quote]In the unexpurgated version of Kenneth Anger's Hollywood Babylon, Monty is called "Princess Tiny Meat." When he got a copy of the book he hooted, "Jesus H. Christ! Is nothing sacred?" and he had his lawyer see to it that in subsequent editions of the bool the reference was cut.
|by Anonymous||reply 72||03/20/2012|
After PTM, princess tiny meat, that's when he became Monty Clit.
|by Anonymous||reply 73||03/20/2012|
With all of the drinking and drugging, it would be unusual if he WASN'T impotent.
|by Anonymous||reply 74||03/20/2012|
I couldn't care less if the stud had "tiny meat." I have more than enough to have compensated. I assume he was a bottom, and would have been honored to be his co-dependent top ( if a bit effeminate, I am).
|by Anonymous||reply 75||03/20/2012|
I wish Elizabeth Taylor had written a memoir. I'd love to read what she had to say about her long friendships with Clift, Roddy McDowell, & Rock Hudson.
|by Anonymous||reply 76||03/20/2012|
Although I gather he was generally submissive sexually, I seem to recall reading somewhere about an incident when he flipped out on a sex partner and whipping the man with a belt.
|by Anonymous||reply 77||03/20/2012|
I do see a SLIGHT difference between pre-accident and post accicend but most of the difference was between the years between From Here to Eternity and Raintree. Wasn't his jaw wired after the accident? I think alot of the difference came from heavy alcoholism and drug use. Added the miserable life he lead.
He really wanted an Oscar. I have an old documentary in which he drunkenly tells his brother Brooks in a phone call, how he feels he shoud get one (for Judgement At Nuremburg). Didn't Brooks die quite some time ago?
I don't think he was as closeted as speculated. Didn't Rodney McDowell (sic) claim Monty used to carouse the streets of NYC or NYC all night diners for tricks?
The pool hall story, in which Monty is being man handled and his driver has to "rescue" him and drag him out, wasn't that in the Laguardia bio?
|by Anonymous||reply 78||03/20/2012|
Slight difference? LOL.
|by Anonymous||reply 79||03/20/2012|
Mrs. Patrick Campbell, would you please stop using "fish"? It is NOT your word.
|by Anonymous||reply 80||03/20/2012|
yeah, Miss smarty pants, slight difference. For the time, I think the surgeons did a pretty good job of wiring him up.
The most difference I notice is the years of drugs, malnutrition, and shitty life.
|by Anonymous||reply 81||03/20/2012|
Adorable as Monty was, I would have never tolerated a beating with a belt. Poor guy, I think he was just plain "worn out."
|by Anonymous||reply 82||03/20/2012|
His twin sister seems to have opted for a very normal life, living in Texas with her family.
His older brother was something of a hot mess. Multiple children with multiple wives and never seemed to make a success out of anything, careerwise. At one point he appeared on a late night talk show (Johnny Carson?) and had the audience guess who he was related to in show business. The brother's daughter was accused of shooting and killing her abusive lover and the father of her baby.
|by Anonymous||reply 83||03/20/2012|
He was pretty good in The Heiress, too.
|by Anonymous||reply 84||03/20/2012|
Monty was great in THE MISFITS. Alas, it's a terrible film, which nonetheless features really brilliant performances from Clift, Marilyn, Gable, the ever sublime Thelma Ritter, even Eli Wallach.
Marilyn needs to turn down the Method a notch, but it's really her most devastating and moving performance.
The scene where Clift pulls the bandage off his nose while he's talking to Marilyn is genius.
Clift was the original Brando.
And no one in the history of beauty was ever more beautiful than Monty and Taylor in A PLACE IN THE SUN.
God, he was beautiful. And a great actor.
Too bad it sounds like he was a pompous self-important ass who took his "art" way too seriously, not to mention such a dangerously self-loathing queer that he brutally destroyed himself.
Nonetheless: I have lots and lots of sympathy for those closet cases from two generations before mine, and Monty came into his maturity in the moment in which homophobia was most intensely rampant in the US, and nearly a part of the American Way. It wasn't just permitted, it was encouraged; no, it was mandated. Being American meant, among other things, feeling murderously angry towards faggots.
I am so so sorry the poor bastard got caught up in all that.
But he was an alcoholic, and like many alkies, he was an abuser who abused not just drink but other people. In many ways, he sounds like Jack Kerouac, another closet case addict from that era. Indeed, Monty was only two years older than Kerouac.
Those guys - those queers with ambivalent feelings about their own sexuality - were just totally fucked by America.
I feel really sorry for the guy, even if he was a nightmare.
|by Anonymous||reply 85||03/20/2012|
I want to like Clift more, but his annoying nasally voice, humorlessness, and wounded victim persona, along with his alcoholism/drug addiction, lead me to believe he had a far more successful career than he ever should have had.
|by Anonymous||reply 86||03/20/2012|
Brando was the original Brando. Why must people form a thread of actors that begin and end with one? Monty was the first of the sensitive, emotional, and heartbreaking actors. The method and non method. Conflicted.
I don't think Brando was as complex. Brando, emotional, senstive, heartbreak, and brutal. Brando may have acredited Monty or tried to emulate his acting, he could not have achieved Monty's vulnerability nor his perceived inner pan. Once can see it as early as The Heiress.
I don't think Brando used Monty's method. Brando had brutality. Monty did not have that. Maybe if he did, he would have lasted longer.
|by Anonymous||reply 87||03/20/2012|
At least he's in Prospect Park for all eternity, where cock is never in short supply!!?
|by Anonymous||reply 88||03/20/2012|
Bosworth would be a fine biographer if she did not print gossip. The Jane Fonda book, not unlike the Clift biography, are both well researched, but sadly full of innuendo and BS. It must be the mean spirited and small minded Actors Studio nonsense.
|by Anonymous||reply 89||03/20/2012|
r87: Interesting observation. Yes, I see where you are coming from. There is a complexity to Clift when you watch his performances. If you do a search, there is a funny--and acidic--comment by Hitchcock about directing Clift in "I Confess." Drove the master to distraction, yet, I love his performance. The film is so underappreciated. I know this sounds like heresy, but I consider as good as "Vertigo."
And yes, no couple in the history of Hollywood has ever, ever looked like Clift and Taylor in "A Place in the Sun." To top it off, they give amazing performances. What is so often overlooked about Taylor is just how great she was when cast in the right role with the right director.
|by Anonymous||reply 90||03/20/2012|
Quote from the whore known as Marilyn about Monty, “The only person I know who is in worse shape than I am."
That says a lot. Still, best looking man ever to appear on film.
|by Anonymous||reply 91||03/20/2012|
I wonder how many women he had sex with.
|by Anonymous||reply 92||03/20/2012|
>>>Monty was great in THE MISFITS
He would have been good if he were 10-15 years younger. Waaaay too old and old looking for the part.
|by Anonymous||reply 93||03/21/2012|
R91, we all know who Marilyn Monroe was. That's why you didn't feel the need to use her last name. And most of us know what she was or wasn't. At least, we know as much about her as we feel the need to know. How sad and creepy to call her a whore so gratuitously. Are you just afraid of all women? Or ashamed of your lack of sexual attraction to them?
Why slam a dead actress nearly half a century after her demise? Is she a threat to you?
|by Anonymous||reply 94||03/21/2012|
Small penis = homosexual leprosy
|by Anonymous||reply 95||03/21/2012|
Montgomery and his twin sister.
|by Anonymous||reply 96||03/21/2012|
|by Anonymous||reply 97||03/21/2012|
Small penis turns you into a pill head alcoholic? People need to be able to accept their short comings.
|by Anonymous||reply 98||03/21/2012|
He was beautiful till he had his accident. That did change his face. Why didn't an accident like that happen to someone like Charlie Sheen, instead of Monty?
|by Anonymous||reply 99||03/21/2012|
I enjoyed so many of his films but it's been awhile since I've seen them.
|by Anonymous||reply 100||03/21/2012|
Since Montgomery Clift seemed to be messed up after the accident, addicted to alcohol and pain killers, lost his looks it kind of makes you wonder if James Dean would have been the same had he survived the accident he was in.
|by Anonymous||reply 101||03/21/2012|
I generally think a lot of him, but I've never understood why people praise him so highly for From Here to Eternity.
To me, he's horribly miscast in that role, and he doesn't know what to do except shuffle through it with a dazed look on his face. He isn't believable as either a boxer or a great bugle player, he has zero spark with Donna Reed (although quite a bit with Sinatra), and no matter how many times they say it, you never buy the fact that he's this great soldier who loves the Army and thinks of it as his home.
Sorry, he just doesn't have it in that movie. Compare it with his wonderful performance as a soldier in The Search or The Young Lions, or even Big Lift, and you can see he CAN do military roles, but for some reason it didn't work in Eternity.
|by Anonymous||reply 102||03/21/2012|
His best movie was I Confess.
|by Anonymous||reply 103||03/21/2012|
R91 meet R56.
|by Anonymous||reply 104||03/21/2012|
According to Darwin Porter, the Diogenes of our time, Merv Griffin occasionally witnessed Sinatra and Clift spooning naked (although no sex was reported to have taken place), and observed the remarkable difference in the sizes of their penises.
|by Anonymous||reply 105||03/21/2012|
I heard Frank Sinatra hated Monty for being 'queer' and wanted him fired from FHTE,correct?
|by Anonymous||reply 106||03/21/2012|
No Sinatra got along great with Monty during FHTE, but apparently he broke with him after he saw Monty put the moves on one of his friends. I'll see if I can find the quote when I get home.
|by Anonymous||reply 107||03/21/2012|
Did Clift offer up his ass to John Wayne when making Red River?
|by Anonymous||reply 108||03/21/2012|
Sinatra adored Clift during the filming of FHTE. Clift helped Sinatra with his character, his lines, his acting. The two were inseparable drinking buddies. At least during the filming.
I don't know when Sinatra found out that Clift was gay, if he always knew, or if he at some point decided he disapproved. Can anyone shed some light on their relationship. Sinatra was homophobic sometimes but having TALENT would override it. He admired great talent and that would get people a free pass with him.
He called Johnny Mathis the African Queen, I know that.
|by Anonymous||reply 109||03/21/2012|
When I was younger ( late 70s I think), I remember my mother borrowed a biography from the library that had several pictures of a shirtless Monty (taken by friends) as well as beach scenes. Any idea which biography included these shirtless photos?
|by Anonymous||reply 110||03/21/2012|
R105, God why do people even bother referencing Darwin Porter? The man cannot be trusted with telling the slightest truth.
|by Anonymous||reply 111||03/21/2012|
Your mother was alive when you were in your late 70's, r110?!! Wow.
|by Anonymous||reply 112||03/21/2012|
Sinatra loved Billy Strayhorn IN SPITE of his homosexuality. He loved the music only.
|by Anonymous||reply 113||03/21/2012|
r93, he was motherfucking GREAT in the motherfucking MISFITS. Okay? Born in 1920, he was 38 when THE MISFITS was shot (his birthday's in the fall; THE MISFITS was shot over the summer; he turned 39 after it wrapped); and:
There are plenty of 38-year-old guys wandering lost and alone around the far reaches of the US, calling home to their moms.
Yes, there are.
His being clearly a guy in his late 30s adds to the poignancy and tragic-ness of his being a guy who is still calling home to Mom from payphones across Nevada.
Plus: He is playing a queer character. Yes? The dude is obviously a fucked-up alcoholic closet-queer, sort of Biff Loman ten years later, except with a mom fixation rather than a daddy fixation.
If you have never done any hitchhiking around the American West, you perhaps don't know that it's jammed with BROKEBACK-y middle-aged fags who were never able to come out, and who have been leading fly-by-night lives in sad and lonely corners of the desert landscape and the human psyche.
Clift is perfect for that part. Perce! Or rather, Purse. Yes, his name in the movie is Purse!
Pay more attention.
|by Anonymous||reply 114||03/21/2012|
I'm another one who doesn't think his looks changed all that much after the accident--what he really lost in it were the extremely prominent cheek bones, but it's not as if his face utterly collapsed without them. But he was not aging that well anyway even just before the accident (if you look at the "before" picture in the side-by-side Raintree County pictures posted above)--some very good looking people just don't age well after a certain point.
To me his acting is a real acquired taste. Sometimes his hesitation and twitchiness really gets on my nerves: sometimes he's terrific. But his best performances for me were all before the accident--in "Red River" and "A Place in the Sun." If I'm not one of the ones who believes the accident completely ruined his looks, I AM one who believes that all the life when out of him after the accident.
|by Anonymous||reply 115||03/21/2012|
R114 - "Clift is perfect for that part. Perce! Or rather, Purse. Yes, his name in the movie is Purse!"
Gay, Guido, and Perce !
|by Anonymous||reply 116||03/21/2012|
R110, that could the the book called Monty by Robert LaGuardia. There are some small pics of him on the beach.
That book is a bit gossipy and much of it is taken with a grain of salt but it is entertaining and gets into the more seedy side of Clift.
Sinatra had a party after FHTE where Monty got drunk and hit on some guy. Sinatra didn't like it and had Monty tossed out.
|by Anonymous||reply 117||03/21/2012|
R114, meds! Your opinion is not Gods, got that?
Now try to concentrate.
"there are plenty of 38-year-old guys wandering lost and alone around the far reaches of the US, calling home to their moms..."
Blah blah blah
38 going on 60. He was too OLD FOR THE FUCKING PART.
|by Anonymous||reply 118||03/21/2012|
I remember seeing him in that film Miss Lonelyhearts, and every time he sat down, he winced in pain. I felt so horrible for him.
I think post-accident he started to look bloated. In the last film he made, he was thin and quite handsome, I thought.
I have known several people who became addicted to painkillers and alcohol after devastating accidents - one friend lost his arm in a car accident - it's pretty awful.
|by Anonymous||reply 119||03/21/2012|
If I want a good laugh I read Darwin Porter. I love all the exact conversations he reports on when he wasn't there and didn't know any of the people.
|by Anonymous||reply 120||03/21/2012|
He was great in The Misfits but the accident he had that messed up his face, did make him look older, not to mention the drugs.
|by Anonymous||reply 121||03/21/2012|
Still waiting for someone to explain how we know he had a small penis.
|by Anonymous||reply 122||03/21/2012|
Bosworth's book (or maybe it was one of the other Clift bios) ends with the people who bought his NYC townhouse agreeing to keep a previously installed plaque up (that says something to the effect of "Montgomery Clift lived here") on the building's exterior but, fearing an endless parade of looky-loos, discreetly planted some shrubbery or a tree that effectively masked it from passersby on the street.
After all these years, is the plaque still there? New Yorkers, go forth and report back. Inquiring minds want to know!
|by Anonymous||reply 123||03/21/2012|
How do you know fug Milton Berle had a big one? Because he told everyone?
|by Anonymous||reply 124||03/21/2012|
Berle not only talked about his penis, he'd occasionally show people -- but just enough of it to prove his point.
|by Anonymous||reply 125||03/21/2012|
r188, your evidence for your claim that Clift was too old for THE MISFITS is merely, "Because I said so!" Which is not evidence.
I provided back-up for my assertion that he was not too old.
I feel sorry for anyone who loves you, because apparently everything you say is right, whether you can offer proof or not.
Are you a Scorpio?
|by Anonymous||reply 126||03/21/2012|
How small was his penis when erect? 4 inches?
|by Anonymous||reply 127||03/21/2012|
Real shame he was hot!
|by Anonymous||reply 128||03/21/2012|
R126, replying to a post that does not exist. LOL.
|by Anonymous||reply 129||03/21/2012|
Anyone know what happened to Monty's last caretaker/boyfriend,Lorenzo? There's not much info on him besides what's in Bosworth's book...
|by Anonymous||reply 130||03/21/2012|
R123, According to this NY Mag article, the plaque disappeared a long time ago.
|by Anonymous||reply 131||03/21/2012|
Great update, R131! I've always wondered if it was still there. Now I know. Thank you!
|by Anonymous||reply 132||03/21/2012|
[quote]Monty and Sinatra remained close. For a while they phoned each other constantly, and they drank together in Hollywood and New York.
[quote]Monty idolized the singer. He played his records until they wore out, he kept his photography in a place of honor in his duplex, and he showed off the gold lighter Sinatra had given him on Christmas that was engraved "Merry merry buddy boy. I'm with you all the way. Maggio."
[quote]The two kept in close contact until one night Monty go very drunk and came on sexually with a man at a party in Bel Air. Sinatra witnessed the incident and he had his bodyguards thrown Monty out of the party.
|by Anonymous||reply 133||03/21/2012|
[quote]Too bad it sounds like he was a pompous self-important ass who took his "art" way too seriously...
Didn't he lug that Libby Holman kook around to every movie set as his acting coach and painfully parse every line of dialogue in that failed and duller than dishwater "Method" style, until it drove everyone batty? It's acting, not a heart-lung transplant! Seriously, every one of his performances is entirely overwrought!
|by Anonymous||reply 134||03/21/2012|
He lugged Libby Holman around so he could get down and dirty with her in his dressing room.
|by Anonymous||reply 135||03/21/2012|
Monty's looks did change somewhat after the accident.
|by Anonymous||reply 136||03/21/2012|
Libby Holman was a lesbian.
|by Anonymous||reply 137||03/21/2012|
R134, No, you're thinking of Mira Rostova, but he stopped bringing her to sets after her disastrous performance of Nina in Chekhov's "The Seagull" off-Broadway. The lady simply was better at teaching acting than actually acting. Among her later students were Jessica Lange, Jerry Orbach, Alec Baldwin, and... Madonna.
|by Anonymous||reply 138||03/21/2012|
Tiny meat? But doesn't he have the classic Big Dick Face?
|by Anonymous||reply 139||03/21/2012|
Clift turned down "Sunset Blvd" because of his relationship with Libby... and Wilder wrote the part FOR him!!!
|by Anonymous||reply 140||03/21/2012|
Please, people: Get off the surface. Stop talking about him being gorgeous and then, after the accident, ugly. He was a BRILLANT actor!! Up there with Brando, Dean and Newman. .. Stop thinking with your boipussies and see his greatness for what it REALLY was!!!!
|by Anonymous||reply 141||03/21/2012|
The irony about 'Sunset Boulevard' is that no one today remembers William Holden.
|by Anonymous||reply 142||03/21/2012|
No one remembers William Holden? doubt that. I'm sure many people remember William Holden but probably not to many here. His dick didn't get enough publicity (it got alot of action though, just straight action)
|by Anonymous||reply 143||03/21/2012|
R142, you are insane.
|by Anonymous||reply 144||03/21/2012|
R143 Your claim is useless without pics.
|by Anonymous||reply 145||03/21/2012|
[quote]according to Elizabeth, she knew his sexuality right away and never considered him as a romantic possibility.
Nope. They did kiss, grope and possibly sleep together. Elizabeth said in an interview I watched on Youtube "one day I was kissing Monty and I realized he should be kissing a man, not me". Then she said she realized she knew the perfect guy for Monty and hooked him up with him (I think ut's Roddy).
In "Suddenly Last Summer" his hands are noticeably shaky. It's sad.
|by Anonymous||reply 146||03/21/2012|
I can't believe NO ONE yet has mentioned his performance in The Heiress in which he even outshines Olivia deHavilland.
He creates a truly enigmatic and complex character that makes the silly story work.
|by Anonymous||reply 147||03/21/2012|
r147, see r84.
|by Anonymous||reply 148||03/21/2012|
There was a Libby Holman biography in the 80s which was promoted in the gay press, wonder if it's still available. There must be Monty dish in there.
|by Anonymous||reply 149||03/21/2012|
r114: Yes, finally someone realizes that "Brokeback Mountain" is not the first film about closeted gay life in the West. I've always found it odd that no one picks up on the gay subtext in "The Misfits." And I agree, Biff Loman is gayer than pink--jock gone to seed, unmarried, in his 30's, and can't get a grip on his life.
Probably a Rethug also.
|by Anonymous||reply 150||03/21/2012|
r126, I did mean to challenge r118, not r188.
It was a motherfucking typo, okay?
I don't actually like Clift in THE HEIRESS, mostly because he's about as 19th century as Justin Timberlake. Hard to imagine Clift as a 19th century gadabout, especially with the very circa-1949 matinee-idol haircut they give him.
I should of course confess that I have never much liked THE HEIRESS, partly because I'm lacking the enzyme that allows me to respond effectively to Olivia de Haviland.
r150, thanks for knowing Biff's a homo. What all do you guess he was doing during his time "out west," anyway?
|by Anonymous||reply 151||03/21/2012|
R143...nope. Stephanie Powers said that his alcoholism had made him impotent. He wasn't getting anything.
|by Anonymous||reply 152||03/21/2012|
I loooooooooooooooooooooooooove William Holden.
I don't care if he was a weird Nazi spy, or whatever.
And totally hot, if you ask me.
|by Anonymous||reply 153||03/21/2012|
No argument here, R153.
That Shelley Winters got to boff him AND Mitchum (not together).
|by Anonymous||reply 154||03/21/2012|
That's one of the things lesbian Capucine liked about her sometimes 'boyfriend' Bill Holden, R152.
|by Anonymous||reply 155||03/22/2012|
BY the time Bill Holden became a major Hollywood star he was already well into middle age.
After an auspicious start as the title character in Golden Boyy in 1939, he floundered around throughout the 1940s until 1950's Sunset Boulevard, the role which finally propelled him to A list throughout the coming two decades. But he was a good ten years older than many of the actors considered his contemporaries.
|by Anonymous||reply 156||03/22/2012|
R156, Bill Holden was born in 1918. That means that in 1950, when he did Sunset Boulevard, he was thirty-two. "Well into middle age"?????????
|by Anonymous||reply 157||03/22/2012|
"don't care if he was a weird Nazi spy, or whatever."
William Holden was not a "weird Nazi spy." Perhaps you're thinking of Errol Flynn; some trashy biography said he was a Nazi spy (he wasn't).
"The irony about 'Sunset Boulevard' is that no one today remembers William Holden."
That's crap! Of course he's remembered. He won an Oscar and was fantastic in a variety of films, several of them classics: "Sunset Blvd.", "Sabrina", "Born Yesterday", "Stalag 17", "The Bridge on the River Kwai", "Picnic", "The Wild Bunch", "Network." You'd have to know nothing about movies not to know who William Holden was.
|by Anonymous||reply 158||03/22/2012|
Holden is a three-time Best Actor Oscar Nominee (Sunset Blvd, Stalag-17, Network) and once winner (Stalag-17)! I'd say most people alive in the Western World and many elsewhere know who he is.
|by Anonymous||reply 159||03/22/2012|
No one has to "remember" William Holden or anyone else. TCM takes care of that.
|by Anonymous||reply 160||03/22/2012|
Poor old Monty was abused, bullied and treated like dirt all his life. Even after his death the doctor who performed the autopsy on him used to joke about his small penis at parties.
|by Anonymous||reply 161||03/28/2012|
You old queens sure do have a hard time letting go of the past.
|by Anonymous||reply 162||03/28/2012|
Actually r161 Clift was stunningly beautiful from a young age and also charismatic. Everyone wanted to be around him.
He could be very cruel to other people though... the Bosworth book has an anecdote from his teenage years, where he's admiring himself in the mirror and his dorm mate, I think, who was suffering from very bad acne, passed by, and Clift said to him, "You're terribly ugly, you know that?"
|by Anonymous||reply 163||03/28/2012|
The dummies of today don't know about the 1970s, let alone William Holden or Sunset Blvd.
|by Anonymous||reply 164||03/28/2012|
R162, why you feel so annoyed when someone remembers? You have a chip on your shoulder? You better look after yourself and stop feeling so superior to others when you personally don't even know them. You obviously have a hard time to be warm-hearted or at least a bit understanding. It's not that difficult to be kind, i assure you. Try it sometime, you'll like it!
|by Anonymous||reply 165||11/11/2012|
Sweet dreams Monty.
|by Anonymous||reply 166||11/14/2012|
This is my favourite Montgomery Clift photo. Monty is justifiably one of my favourite actors. He was great.
|by Anonymous||reply 167||11/18/2012|
I definitely place him in my top 10 favorite actors. He's up there and he deserves it. Outstanding actor. One of the most gorgeous men to ever live.
|by Anonymous||reply 168||11/28/2012|
His 'rivals' Brando and Dean were in awe of him.
|by Anonymous||reply 169||11/28/2012|
A candid photo with Marilyn. They were like two kids together.
|by Anonymous||reply 170||11/28/2012|
I hope the eventual Matt Bomer biopic is done well.
|by Anonymous||reply 171||11/28/2012|
About his teeth, on a letter he says he lost the bottom teeth, but Patricia Bosworth says in a documentary that he lost his front teeth.
Does anybody knows the right answer?
|by Anonymous||reply 172||12/04/2012|
R171 Only in your dreams.
|by Anonymous||reply 173||12/04/2012|
Montgomery Clift was 'close' friends with Augusta Dabney who played Isabelle on Loving
|by Anonymous||reply 174||12/04/2012|
[quote]A candid photo with Marilyn.
That's the first time I've seen a bad picture of her.
|by Anonymous||reply 175||12/04/2012|
R172, Patricia Bosworth's biography of Monty is considered a must for all Montgomery Clift fans and it has received great critics and many praises. Actually, her biography about Clift is considered one of the best biographies that have been written about Hollywood stars.
Now as it comes to his teeth...probably Bosworth was right. She didn't write bollocks in his biography. Maybe,Monty wrote on a letter that he lost the bottom teeth because he was drunk ,or he didn't feel comfortable talking about the greatest damages that his accident caused (front teeth must have been a heavy blow to Clift's vanity).
However,i just make guesses, i don't know for sure about your funny question!
|by Anonymous||reply 176||12/04/2012|
Augusta Dabney was the 1st wife of actor Kevin McCarthy. They were great friends with Monty and many people thought that Kevin was actually the love of Monty's life.
|by Anonymous||reply 177||12/04/2012|
Kerr Smith from "Dawson's Creek" is his spitting image. He should be cast if they make a movie of Monty's life.
|by Anonymous||reply 178||12/04/2012|
"I wish Elizabeth Taylor had written a memoir. I'd love to read what she had to say about her long friendships with Clift, Roddy McDowell, & Rock Hudson"
She did do some kind of memoir called "Elizabeth Takes Off." I think it had to do with weight loss, but she also talked about other things. I remember something she said about Mike Todd: "God, I loved him."
Taylor did inteviews in which she was asked about her male friends like Clift and Rock Hudson and James Dean and Roddy McDowell. She had absolutely nothing interesting to say about any of them. In fact, when asked she'd invariably say "I loved him" and pretty much leave it at that.
|by Anonymous||reply 179||12/05/2012|
Thanks, Monty Smiles.Yes, my question was funny and thanks for your quick answer. It's a sequel to my job, I investigate some issues of history and I'm always amazed that very so often even in facts in which there can be little doubt or have passed recently, there may be two or more conflicting or opposite versions.
One curious case is that of a famous outlaw of my country, Juan Moreira, killed by police in 1874. Some contemporaries say he was blond and blue-eyed and others say he had dark hair and terrifying black eyes
About Monty and his teeth, I agree with you that they were the front ones.
English's not my mother language, excuse mistakes
|by Anonymous||reply 180||12/05/2012|
|by Anonymous||reply 181||12/05/2012|
Count me as another one who doesn't see any scars or structural changes in his face in those before and after "Raintree County" pictures. That's not to say I don't see ANY difference. He looks a little thinner, but chiefly it's in his expression, especially those wide-open eyes. He looks tense and anxious to the point of being terror-stricken.
|by Anonymous||reply 182||12/05/2012|
Darwin Porter writes slash fic. It's entertaining but shouldn't be confused with real life.
|by Anonymous||reply 183||12/05/2012|
Vastly over-rated as an actor.
|by Anonymous||reply 184||12/06/2012|
R184, he was not overatted. I have seen most of his movies and i'm convinced that Montgomery Clift was one of the best actors of all times. He was capable of moving the audience with his powerful performances, he was really awesome but unlucky in his personal life. Booze destroyed him, but he never delivered a mediocre performance.
|by Anonymous||reply 185||12/06/2012|
Mmmmmm, look at those hairy arms.
|by Anonymous||reply 186||12/07/2012|
Monty, Monty, Monty! What are you thinking of while drinking your cup of...coffee?
|by Anonymous||reply 187||12/09/2012|
Intense and beautiful, no matter what...
|by Anonymous||reply 188||12/09/2012|
Monty with Burt Lancaster
Burt Lancaster once said the only actor he was ever intimidated by was Montgomery Clift because he just knew he'd be blown off the screen. They co-starred in 'From Here to Eternity'
|by Anonymous||reply 189||12/09/2012|
One more photo with the two of them. You probably have seen this one, but i'll send it anyway!
|by Anonymous||reply 190||12/09/2012|
White people problems.
|by Anonymous||reply 191||12/09/2012|
One for the road...
|by Anonymous||reply 192||12/09/2012|
I think it's possible that Elizabeth fell for Monty at the beginning. Then, she loved him dearly as a friend and she saved his life in that terrible car accident that happened to him.
Elizabeth could be very unlucky with her men but very protective of her male friends.
|by Anonymous||reply 193||12/11/2012|
What a pity that Monty from what i read was not a happy man. How troubled he was! So much booze, so much doubts...
|by Anonymous||reply 194||12/11/2012|
OP if you really read Bosworth book you would have known that what did the most damage to him was his freak of a mother who routinely tortured the family in her endless pursuit of being accepted by high society.
|by Anonymous||reply 195||12/11/2012|
After the accident his face was not as monstrous as some posters implied (grrr),but it's true that he lost his careless beauty. Actually, he was never careless but he was narcissistic enough to appear like it when he needed to reassure himself. So the accident was a heavy blow for his vanity. His narcissism was part of his armor. When he lost it, he had to rely only in his inner impulses and he was so much troubled inside.
I think in the photo below the sadness in his eyes is flagrant.
R195, his mother really hurt him inside. However, i think Monty would never accept his homosexuality in public like Rock Hudson never did. They were both too narcissistic to accept that in public.
|by Anonymous||reply 196||12/11/2012|
Why hasn't mentioned his affair with Jack "Jimmy Olsen" Larson?
|by Anonymous||reply 197||12/11/2012|
He had perfect features and after the accident he didn't. He wasn't hideous to look upon, but the tragedy was that the perfection was gone. He might have been able to deal with the change in his looks, but it was the chronic pain after the accident that really did him in. He took to drink and painkillers to cope with it, which only made matters worse.
If only he could have stood up to Liz Taylor and told her he wasn't going to her damn dull dinner party and wanted to get some sleep.
This is what happened that fateful night:
"In the Wilding's case both Elizabeth and Michael forced him to listen--separately--to their joint problems and to help them come to a decision as to whether they should get a divorce.
He'd grown sick of it, he told Larson that foggy afternoon. He wanted to hear no more. "He was drained from the situation. He'd heard about it from every angle--he told me under no circumstances was he going out that night. He wanted to stay home, maybe study his script, nap a little, then go to bed."
Every so often while they talked the phone rang. It was always Elizabeth Taylor. She kept trying to persuade Monty to come to a little dinner party she was giving that night. He kept saying no, he was too tired. But she wouldn't take no for an answer and neither would Wilding. At one point he got on the extension phone and told Monty he must come.
After one conversation Monty told Larson, laughing, that Elizabeth was giving a dinner for some young priest who had admired his work in I Confess. "This young priest is so modern that he says "fuck" but I don't care what he says, I want to stay home."
Monty continued to refuse the invitation whle Larson was there. "I heard him say no to Elizabeth again and again--I think she called him three times." He was so determined not to go anywhere that he gave the chauffeur the evening off. Before he left in his own car, Florian fixed a little cold supper which Monty planned to eat. He'd watch some tv and then go to bed.
When Larson said goodbye around six, Monty was again on the phone telling Elizabeth no, he wasn't coming to dinner. She apparently kept phoning him until finally, although he didn't want to go, he said yes, because he never liked disappointing her and it was so hard for him to say no.
Around seven, before it got dark, he got into his car, a car he hadn't driven in months, and he started off to the dinner party.
|by Anonymous||reply 198||12/11/2012|
Kevin McCarthy was also at the dinner party and was driving in his own car ahead of Monty more or less guiding Monty down the winding road. Kevin was the one who went back to Elizabeth's house to let them know about the accident. The report was that Monty was cold sober at the time of the accident.
|by Anonymous||reply 199||12/11/2012|
He just looked older after the accident.
Nobody stays young, lithe and beautiful forever. Unless they die
|by Anonymous||reply 200||12/11/2012|
|by Anonymous||reply 201||12/14/2012|
Candid closeup with Elizabeth Taylor
|by Anonymous||reply 202||12/16/2012|
A very young Monty
|by Anonymous||reply 203||12/16/2012|
|by Anonymous||reply 204||12/16/2012|
|by Anonymous||reply 205||12/16/2012|
This is from Monty's last film. He was 45 years old. He has lovely cheek bones and a nice mouth and still looks like a movie star. I would have married him here tiny penis or not. His eyes grew more and more intense and sad because they had to make up for diminished facial movement.I think he had some facial paralysis from the accident which effected it's appearance when he spoke and may be what the whole "hideous" myth comes from. Plus alcohol is poison and causes ageing, swelling and that stewed tomato look. Actors usually know to clean up a little before a photo shoot, ect. I think Monty took his physical changes and integrated them into his art. I think he was and actor and artist in his mind and not a movie star. This is why he worked until the end. Few actors can do so little and show so much.
|by Anonymous||reply 206||02/13/2013|
He was a real otter, wasn't he?
A very hairy, wiry guy, yes?
|by Anonymous||reply 207||02/13/2013|
I read on separate occasions that Montgomery Clift coached an insecure Frank Sinatra as Maggio. Not only that but he also coached Donna Reed.
Some comments have been made that he wasn't physically right to play a boxer. However, Douglas Fairbanks Jr. and John Garfield were just two actors who weren't "pyhsically right" to portray boxers. But the audience accepted them!
I agree that Montgomery Clift should have won the oscar for "From Here to Eternity".
In one of his biographies, there is mention of his being in possession of over a hundred scripts at one point, and he had piled them on a table.
I think that he was the first choice of Billy Wilder for the lead in "Stalag 17".
|by Anonymous||reply 208||02/13/2013|
Richard Burton supposedly said to Clift "You're the only man that Elizabeth (Taylor) ever truly loved."
John Huston supposedly tormented Clift while directing him in FREUD. Huston couldn't tolerate Clift's sexual orientation
|by Anonymous||reply 209||02/13/2013|
Montgomery Clift preparing coffee in a special coffee maker he bought in Italy.
|by Anonymous||reply 210||07/13/2013|
Are you sure that's not Paul Newman r210?
|by Anonymous||reply 211||07/13/2013|
As though poor Joanne Woodward remembers anything these days....
|by Anonymous||reply 212||07/13/2013|
Looks like Monty to me.
|by Anonymous||reply 213||07/13/2013|
Bosworth wrote about the relationship between Monty and Jimmy Dean.
Elia Kazan, who directed Jimmy in East of Eden told Monty that Jimmy was "a punk and a helluva talent..he likes racing cars, waitresses..and waiters!" Like most young actors, Dean idolized Monty and somehow got his private phone number and would call and then not say much of anything to Monty. Mostly something like: "Hi this is Jimmy Dean, uh, how are you, man?" Monty said that he didn't know how to respond to him and tried to discourage the calls.
Yet, when Monty heard that Jimmy was killed in the accident, he sat up in bed and threw up across the bed sheets. He claimed he had no idea why he reacted that way.
|by Anonymous||reply 214||07/13/2013|
Nice info R214.
R211, of course this is Monty and not Paul. Lol Joanne, every beautiful man is not your husband!
|by Anonymous||reply 215||07/13/2013|
Small penis? Lucky man!
|by Anonymous||reply 216||07/13/2013|
After reading the biography, I realized Clift's twin sister lived in the street next to the one I grew up on in Austin and apparently he spent extended periods of time there. Wish I'd known.
And, en passant, there is a Joanne Woodward troll???
|by Anonymous||reply 217||07/13/2013|
He was cute.
|by Anonymous||reply 218||07/13/2013|
That "Tell mama" scene, the giant close - ups, in 'A Place In The Sun' is my favorite love scene of all time . So much sexier than anyone taking their clothes off. It's the passion. Director Gorge Stevens actually managed to put passion ON the screen, with the 2 most beautiful actors ever. No other supposed love scene comes near.
|by Anonymous||reply 219||07/13/2013|
The huge close-ups of Taylor and Clift in A Place in the Sun were a direct steal from silent movies which often featured star-crossed lovers played by the likes of Greta Garbo and John Gilbert and Ronald Colman and Vilma Banky 20 feet high on the silver screen.
They were nothing new.
|by Anonymous||reply 220||07/13/2013|
Monty was kind of a buttinsky where other actors were concerned. He tried to tell director George Stevens that Shelley was not doing her part the way that Monty thought it should be done. George told him to mind his own business and Shelley went on to get nominated as best actress for her great emoting in APITS.
|by Anonymous||reply 221||07/13/2013|
R219, your "no other supposed love scene" marks you not merely as a partisan but a loon. It's okay to enjoy something, but to condemn all other love scenes in all other theatrical presentations is a bit over the top, don't you think?
And, of course, if there ever was something that was a "supposed love scene," it was a scene in which Monty pretended to have a "passion" (e.g. mini-boner) for Liz.
|by Anonymous||reply 222||07/13/2013|
|by Anonymous||reply 223||10/17/2013|
Director William Wyler confers with Montgomery Clift during the making of "The Heiress"
|by Anonymous||reply 224||01/15/2014|
He was drunk when he crashed.
By the time of "The Misfits" his face had settled and he looked ruggedly handsome.
He was probably a bottom so tinymeat wouldn't be that big of a deal.
He was just born too early to enjoy gay self-esteem.
|by Anonymous||reply 225||01/15/2014|
Debbie Reynolds says that Monty liked vagine. Namely, Liz's.
|by Anonymous||reply 226||01/15/2014|
Maybe Monty tried to sleep with women, he was too narcissistic not to try that, but he was basically deeply gay and you know that people!
Montgomery Clift helping a pal to build a house in 1948
|by Anonymous||reply 227||01/15/2014|
Frank Sinatra and Monty were friends for several years. Then one night at a party at Frank's house, Monty got into a fight with someone and Frank threw him out of the party. I don't think they were ever friends after that.
Anyone know who it was Monty pissed off and why?
|by Anonymous||reply 228||01/15/2014|
No, personally i don't know, but what i know for sure is that it Frankie overdid it once more. He had a terrible temper and he could bear grudges forever to people who were once upon a time his friends.
|by Anonymous||reply 229||01/15/2014|
If you don't know who he fought or why, then you have no idea whether or not Sinatra overreacted. This is not rocket science.
|by Anonymous||reply 230||01/15/2014|
R230, i have read many biographies that talk about Frank Sinatra...so give it a rest sassy baby!
|by Anonymous||reply 231||01/15/2014|
According to Bosworth, Frank witnessed Monty drunkenly coming on sexually to another male party guest and that is when he had Monty tossed out.
Frank was not a fan of the gays, but you have to wonder, after you hear that Monty and Frank got totally drunk time after time off the set of FHTE if Monty had never come on to Sinatra at some point. Is a puzzlement.
Monty was not drunk when he had the car accident. All witnesses said the same thing: he had not been drinking at the party.
|by Anonymous||reply 232||01/15/2014|
It's many year since I read the Bosworth biog, which my first BF gave me as my nineteenth birthday present. But I seem to remember that Bosworth describes Monty, unconscious on the pool table, at the back of the leather bar as other posters have recalled, but the missing detail in those posts if I remember correctly is that Monty's friends found a cigarette butt between Monty's fingers. He had passed out with it lit, and it had burnt the flesh of his fingers down to the bone.
|by Anonymous||reply 233||01/15/2014|
Guys, you are very sweet that you replied about that little detail. Thank you. It's good to know all these little things. No need to be stuck-up and viewing as unimportant people and things that don't exist anymore. Some baby gays do that unfortunately...but how little they know.
|by Anonymous||reply 234||01/15/2014|
His tiny penis was the least of his problems.
He had a lot of bad luck. He had a gorgeous face and great talent, but he was incredibly warped from his fucked-up childhood and after the car accident that ruined his face he was plagued with health problems ever after, and became addicted to drugs and alcohol. He was also a tormented closet alcoholic. His was one of those tragic Hollywood stories.
|by Anonymous||reply 235||01/15/2014|
A rare photo with Monty with Marilyn
|by Anonymous||reply 236||01/20/2014|
How small was his penis when erect? 4 inches? It was about your size.
|by Anonymous||reply 237||01/20/2014|
*pats 237's head
Sassy babygay, behave babe...sst.
|by Anonymous||reply 238||01/20/2014|
It's amazing how much Kerr Smith resembles him.
|by Anonymous||reply 239||01/20/2014|
Did Monty eat out Liz's vagine?
|by Anonymous||reply 240||01/20/2014|
r232 Actually Sinatra did have many gay friends, and of course he was friends with Monty before the fight that Monty got into with the uknown party. He was even secure enough about himself to be in (positive) gay sketches with Dean Martin on Dean's show.
Just because Sinatra could have a temper, doesn't mean that he was always in the wrong. Monty was a fucked up alkie who alienated almost everyone from his life; I don't know why it's inconceivable that he actually deserved to be thrown out of the event.
|by Anonymous||reply 241||01/20/2014|
As a matter of fact, I honestly don't see why a small penis should be of much concern to someone with Monty's kind of breathtaking beauty. I mean he would make a PERFECT BOTTOM wouldn't he?
If I were to meet someone like him, I could most easily forget about what's in front and just concentrate on the face (and what a face!) and the rear...
|by Anonymous||reply 242||01/21/2014|
Shoe designer Alejandro Ingelmo: a modern-day Monty, with tats...?
|by Anonymous||reply 243||01/21/2014|
Why, R243? Does he have a small cock?
|by Anonymous||reply 244||01/21/2014|
R243, might want to get that glaucoma checked out.
|by Anonymous||reply 245||01/21/2014|
Kerr Smith is Monty's doppelganger...
|by Anonymous||reply 246||01/21/2014|
Kerr Smith today looks more like Matthew Perry.
|by Anonymous||reply 247||01/21/2014|
Kerr was much older than his DAWSON'S CREEK character. His hair color finally caught up to his age.
|by Anonymous||reply 248||01/21/2014|
Kerr is still hot.
|by Anonymous||reply 249||01/21/2014|
Monty Clift was hot, littledick or not.
|by Anonymous||reply 250||01/22/2014|
He was certainly not monstrous after the accident.
|by Anonymous||reply 251||02/11/2014|
It's just that he was stunning and radiant when he was younger that made people talk about the change after the accident. It was not just the accident, it was also the booze and the passing of time that changed Monty's face.
|by Anonymous||reply 252||02/11/2014|
Montgomery Clift - Behind the scenes of Raintree County
|by Anonymous||reply 253||02/13/2014|
Same photo, just bigger(I hope it works).
|by Anonymous||reply 254||02/13/2014|
THELMA RITTER, MONTGOMERY CLIFT, MARILYN MONROE in The Misfits (1961)
|by Anonymous||reply 255||02/13/2014|
Elizabeth Taylor on Montgomery Clift: He Was My Brother
|by Anonymous||reply 256||02/13/2014|
“Elizabeth is is the only woman I have ever met who turns me on. She feels like the other half of me.” -Montgomery Clift on Elizabeth Taylor
|by Anonymous||reply 257||02/13/2014|
Elizabeth could turn on gay men, that's true. She was charmingly manipulative.
|by Anonymous||reply 258||02/13/2014|
Yeah, Elizabeth was kewl and stunning.
|by Anonymous||reply 259||02/13/2014|
That looks like Libby Holman in the pic at r255. Monty allegedly had physical intimacy with Libby. She was extremely jealous of Elizabeth Taylor's relationship with Monty.
Libby was quite the character, Google her some time. Great singing voice.
|by Anonymous||reply 260||02/13/2014|
Libby Holman from The Little Show on Broadway....very cool.
|by Anonymous||reply 261||02/13/2014|
Before Linda Rondstat got to this song.
Can't we be friends Libby Holman
|by Anonymous||reply 262||02/13/2014|
[quote]he was too narcissistic
I remember reading in Bosworth's bio that when he was young he and his mother stayed with either a friend or relative. They had a younger boy who was in awe of Monty. The kid had an acne problem at the time. He said Monty was always fussing in the mirror, trying out poses, and that one day he said something really quite cruel and cutting to the boy about his face and acne problem.
|by Anonymous||reply 263||02/13/2014|
R261, yeah, every gay actor 'allegedly' has physical intimacy with women. And it's baloney.
|by Anonymous||reply 264||02/13/2014|
Where's that gif from, R253 ? It looks like an outtake from someone's home movies.
|by Anonymous||reply 265||02/13/2014|
R232, bullshit. Sinatra had gay friends.
|by Anonymous||reply 266||02/13/2014|
Brief biographical bit
|by Anonymous||reply 267||02/13/2014|
RED RIVER preserved on film the height of Clift's beauty. It was all downhill from there.
Tortured Kinsey 5.
|by Anonymous||reply 268||02/13/2014|
I hope this project comes off.
There have been few faces in cinematic history as expressive and moving as that of Montgomery Clift. His filmography might be all too brief, but he didn't waste a moment, delivering iconic turns in movies like "From Here To Eternity," "Judgment At Nuremberg," "The Search," "Terminal Station" and more. And now his own life is getting the big screen treatment.
"White Collar" star Matt Bomer has been tapped to play Clift in an upcoming biopic. Christopher Lovick has penned the script, that will be directed by Larry Moss, and will tell the story of the actor, who quickly rose to become one of the biggest stars in Hollywood. But he never recovered after a serious car accident during the filming of "Raintree County," one that left him with scars on his matinee idol face, and chronic pain, which he chased with alcohol and pills. And his growing dependency on drugs is believed to have led to the heart attack that killed him at the all too early age of 45. But even in his short time, making just 18 features, he earned 4 Academy Award nominations.
There are no exact details on the breadth of the story though IMDB notes, the film will focus on the making of "A Place In The Sun," and in particular on his relationship with Elizabeth Taylor whom he grew close. They would make two more movies together -- "Raintree County" and "Suddenly, Last Summer" -- and she is said to have dislodged a tooth from Clift's tongue, coming up on the wreck following his accident, to prevent him from choking on it.
The project is being shopped around, but if all goes well, it'll roll in front of cameras next year.
|by Anonymous||reply 269||02/13/2014|
I wonder if they're going to fuck in that flick.
|by Anonymous||reply 270||02/13/2014|
That Matt Bomer flick will never get made.
|by Anonymous||reply 271||02/13/2014|
R266, i don't know baby, sorry, but, yes, it kinda looks that way.
R261, R262, R263, guys, thanks a lot for your information. Actually, i didn't know about Libby Holman. I found it very interesting!
Monty with Liz again, in the photo below.
|by Anonymous||reply 272||02/14/2014|
R266, i know it is probably of no help, but i took that GIF from this site(look at the link below.) There is no information about that specific GIF though. You can also find some other Montgomery Clift GIFs there.
|by Anonymous||reply 273||02/14/2014|
Have you read this article about Monty (Montgomery Clift: better than Brando, more tragic than Dean)?
Here are the highlights of this article:
Clift’s upbringing was unconventional. His father was a banker whose fortunes fluctuated. But his mother raised him, his twin sister Ethel and their older brother Brooks like young aristocrats, taking them abroad on ocean liners and having them schooled by tutors at home. The young Montgomery exuded charm, but was plagued with self-doubt and a shaky sense of his own identity. He found refuge in theatre, winning his first rave reviews on Broadway before turning 18, then going on to star in plays by Thornton Wilder (who became a friend) and Tennessee Williams.
Howard Hawks saw him on stage and offered him a role in Red River, a western starring John Wayne. Their animosity on screen extended off-set: Wayne described Clift as “an arrogant little bastard”, while Clift felt uneasy in the macho on-set atmosphere fostered by Wayne and Hawks. Yet his performance made him a star.
He was set to star in Billy Wilder’s 1950 film of Sunset Boulevard, as screenwriter-gigolo Joe Gillis opposite Gloria Swanson as ageing silent movie queen Norma Desmond, but backed out at the last minute.
The 30-year-old actor was conducting a secret liaison with singer-actress Libby Holman, 16 years his senior, a state of affairs that would have been considered scandalous. But then that was true of Clift’s conflicted sexual life in general. He had several homosexual relationships, though his brother said he had “met two girls he got pregnant. He was never exclusively one thing or the other; he swung back and forth”. Elizabeth Taylor, one of Clift’s closest friends, confirmed this tendency in him. To add to his problems, around 1949 Clift had started drinking heavily, having barely touched alcohol in his formative years.
Clift declined the lead in East of Eden (it went to Dean), and instead paired up again with Taylor in Raintree County (1957), a pleasant if inconsequential Civil War romance that rode on the coat-tails of Gone with the Wind.
By the time Red River was released in 1948, Clift had already played the lead in The Search, a moving post-war drama about a G I who cares for an eight-year-old Czech boy, a war refugee. Not knowing (or maybe just not caring) how Hollywood did things, Clift, concerned that the story was becoming too sentimental, rewrote dialogue, aiming to strike a more realistic, almost documentary note. This infuriated the film’s producer, but director Fred Zinnemann later conceded that some of Clift’s revisions had helped the story. Clift was nominated for his first Oscar.
|by Anonymous||reply 274||02/14/2014|
r7, sounds alot like most of the straight guys I know. Nothing is never big enough.
|by Anonymous||reply 275||02/14/2014|
Any guy who fucked little boy Mia liked the gays.
|by Anonymous||reply 276||02/14/2014|
R276, yeah, you are right, according to this article:
New Research Reveals Average Penis Size Is Much Smaller When You Stop Lying About Penis Size
|by Anonymous||reply 277||02/14/2014|
He was a hairy bear.
|by Anonymous||reply 278||12/29/2014|
James Dean took a lot from Monty.
|by Anonymous||reply 279||12/29/2014|
R278, wouldn't he be considered an otter rather than a bear?
|by Anonymous||reply 280||12/29/2014|
I wonder what kind of men did he like...
|by Anonymous||reply 281||12/29/2014|
There is a photo in Pinterest that shows Montgomery Clift with Rock Hudson. Do you know if it is a fake or not?
|by Anonymous||reply 282||12/29/2014|
Hey, bitches, it's me again.
I'm reading this book now. I downloaded it for free, in epub form...! You can find it too...
|by Anonymous||reply 283||12/29/2014|
re: R282. It looks like it *might* be a fake photo. The depth of Monty and Rock appear to be off and not quite the same, as if one was closer to the camera and the other further away. It does appear that Monty was developing some tenting though.
|by Anonymous||reply 284||12/29/2014|
R282, that photo of Rock was copied and pasted from a snapshot of him with millionaire playboy Michael Butler, whom he ran off to Italy with and carried on so indiscreetly that his horrified studio ordered him back to America [italic]presto![/italic] Butler stayed on in Europe, met the sexually adventurous Jack Kennedy, and engaged in threesomes with him aboard his yacht.
The photo of Monty looks like it came from the same set that Roddy McDowall took during their holidays together.
|by Anonymous||reply 285||12/29/2014|
Clift certainly deserved the Oscar for "Judgment at Nuremburg" more than Chakiris for "West Side Story"
|by Anonymous||reply 286||12/29/2014|
Wasn't that chilling, R286? I was a little kid the first time I saw that and I cried and cried.
|by Anonymous||reply 287||12/29/2014|
R285, thanks a lot for this interesting info! R284, thanks for replying too, my friend. You made the start! :)
R286, and sensitive and sweet R287, i totally agree with you. Montgomery Clift should have won an Oscar for his performance in that movie.
|by Anonymous||reply 288||12/30/2014|
Did you fags know that Matt Bomer wants to play him in a movie? It's starting to look like it might happen
|by Anonymous||reply 289||12/30/2014|
For thirty days, salt air I sniffed
While I was shipwrecked and cast adrift
With a man who looked like Montgomery Clift
|by Anonymous||reply 290||12/30/2014|
I loved I'm in Suddenly Last Summer.
|by Anonymous||reply 291||12/30/2014|
R289, that would be something...Let's wait and see.
|by Anonymous||reply 292||12/30/2014|
Dr Cukrowicz...i was very touched by Monty in Wild River, one of my favourite movies. Have you seen it?
|by Anonymous||reply 293||12/30/2014|
I remember how he reacted to Marilyn's kindness in The Misfits. She seemed to truly look into his soul. They were both emotionally crippled.
|by Anonymous||reply 294||12/30/2014|
R294 they were both broken, but they both shined behind the screen.
|by Anonymous||reply 295||12/30/2014|
He was great in that movie, yes, very touching, r293, Lee Remick works my nerves though.
|by Anonymous||reply 296||12/30/2014|
Hey, i found an original photo of Montgomery Clift with Rock Hudson and Doris Day in the Doris Day Web Forum.
Candid with Rock and Montgomery Clift during filming of Lover Come Back
|by Anonymous||reply 297||01/09/2015|
Where and when were all these snaps taken? Is this book still in print?
|by Anonymous||reply 298||01/09/2015|
Ok, know this is Monty's thread, but still can you ever have enough of Rock Hudson? The guy was sex on a stick.
|by Anonymous||reply 299||01/09/2015|
|by Anonymous||reply 300||01/09/2015|
Hehe, IDunno, yes, Rock rocked indeed. A true hunk.
|by Anonymous||reply 301||01/09/2015|
Here ya go (298)!
|by Anonymous||reply 302||01/09/2015|
Cover looks familiar, may have seen it at Rizzoli bookstore awhile back.
Will keep my eyes peeled. Looks like a good thing to have lying about.
|by Anonymous||reply 303||01/09/2015|
Question for you elder gays of Hollywood or at least know the deal.
Just insert Rock Hudson's name into Google brings up tons of pictures, some very risqué for a "straight" All American Hollywood star.
Can one assume these are photos from private collections that have come to light since most everyone in them is now dead? Makes you wonder what else is out there. Home movies of Rock Hudson in a four way? *LOL*
Even as he got older RH gave a whole new meaning to "hot daddy".
|by Anonymous||reply 304||01/09/2015|
The idea that Matt Bomer will play Monty Clift fills me with dread. Matt is pretty if you like animatronics but no way could he come close to Monty.
|by Anonymous||reply 305||01/14/2015|
I always got the impression he was addicted to feeling worthless.
|by Anonymous||reply 306||01/14/2015|
Whoever put the Mask and The Elephant Man pics on here are assholes. I have a sense of humor, but not funny.
|by Anonymous||reply 307||01/15/2015|
James Dean was hot, Monty meh even before the accident, Perhaps because he always looked so tortured it was a boner killer.
Sinatra hated the gays, Read about it in the autobio of Sinatra's man servant, a gentleman who died just last year I believe. That's a great book. Sorry I don't recall the title but it should be easy to find on Amazon. This gentleman made it clear Sinatra hated us.
Also there's an elderly gentleman I met while visiting Palm Springs. He used to drive for Sinatra and he said the same thing. Frank really did not like the gays. I love his music and think he was a stupendous entertainer but the guy definitely hung with the straights and preferred to avoid us whenever possible. and to mock and taunt us..
|by Anonymous||reply 308||10/29/2015|
I remember catching Suddenly Last Summer on TV when I was a teenager. Looking back it was like a big red flag. Not just the subject matter - my teenage dick got hard whenever MC was on the screen.
|by Anonymous||reply 309||10/29/2015|