The Rose was about Janis Joplin??

Well it sure the fuck wasn't about Barbara Cook.

Loosely inspired by her life story, if not literally about her

Yes, Rose.

Don't feel bad. I thought it was about Amy Winehouse.

It was loosely based on Janis, but I still can not see Bette as a rocker, sorry Bette.

There must have been some other singer/actress for this film. How about someone new at the time? Does that ever come across the minds of the people involved in music bios?!

Directors and producers seem to be all about using an established names for these music biographies, but they are always forgetting how inappropriate most of these established stars are for these types of music biographies!

Val Kilmer was excellent as Jim Morrison, even if the film was horrible, Kilmer looked and sounded like Jim in the songs he performed.

IIRC, some actor from 'Gossip Girl' is playing Jeff Buckley, really? It's going to bomb. Wasn't James Franco in the running or was he going to play Jeff's dad, Tim?

OP, are you young (under 30)? That's the only allowable excuse for not knowing this extremely important fact.

To me, the most memorable scene in that whole movie was the sequence at the drag queen bar, with the raucus "Fire Down Below" by Bob Seeger pounding out the beat.

That looked like quite a party.

Hilarious.

I agree, very fun

The only scene I remember was the diner scene.%0D %0D Waitress: We don't serve hippies.%0D %0D Rose: Good, cause I don't eat 'em.

I wish the "Fire Down Below" - drag queens sequence was on YouTube ... but no such luck.

My favorite scene is where Rose is in the phone booth and pulls out an enormous wad of cash whilst a virtual pharmacy falls from her carpet bag. Those were the days, my friends!

OP we were trying to keep it a secret from you because. Well frankly we didn't think you could handle it. Who told you? Other posters please don't reveal who Citizen Kane is about

I'm reminded of my NPR-lovin' friend: "wait, Beyonce is BLACK?"

LMAO, r1. I love this film despite its obvious deficits. They did it on almost no money and my God Frederick Forrest was hot to death. Freddy did not age well.

I wish they would release it on blu-ray. It's on dvd but not a very good video quality. It has such great visuals (Vilmos Zsigmond was DOP) and sound it needs to be on blu-ray.

[quote] How about someone new at the time? Does that ever come across the minds of the people involved in music bios?!

Bette WAS new at the time. It was her first movie.

There's a rumor that Criterion will release it this year, based on their yearly wacky cartoon drawing of hints for upcoming releases.

The rose in the cartoon could be La Vie en Rose or American Beauty though, too.

I particularly enjoy the actress who plays the waitress. Many of the actors are from the Actor's Studio, IIRC.

I'm putting on now. Love this film.

Bob Seger. Pete Seeger.

I can't sign this "The Bob Seger Troll", because this is most likely the only time he will ever be referenced on DL.

Midler is so thin in this film. I thought she did a great job.

I agree, r21. I believe she was nominated for an Academy.

Midler's costumes are awesome.

Well, it was only loosely inspired by Joplin's life.

Was this movie actually a box office hit?

Yeah, and "The Rose" was supposed to be a "rock ballad," not the go-to song for every ten year old hopeful on Star Search.

Rack-jobbers rule!

Holy Christ, Midler's arm pit hairs! I can smell those pits through the DVD.

So BM has played Janis Joplin, Martha Raye and Jacqueline Susann- and none of the performances were even close to authentic.

I'm glad she didn't get the Oscar because she can't act.

Really, OP? Back to your "Into the Woods" fan site!

[quote]Bette WAS new at the time

Only to film, dear.

Get this, OP.. Janice's nickname was Pearl.

She did a great job and it launched a almost unprecedented career.

I know, darling, r31. Now my favorite: THE WAITRESS!

INTO THE WOODS is loosely based on the rise and fall of Desilu.

Did you hear about the Polish lesbian?

She likes men!

Wait. Walk the Line was about Johnny Cash?

Someone just told me that "Lincoln" was about Abraham Lincoln. Is this true?

Isn't Amy Adams playing her in a new film?

Wow and I used to think it was about Yoko.

So Capote was actually about Truman Capote? You're sure?

I always thought it was about Rose Kennedy. Go figure.

I thought it was about Rosemary Clooney.

I thought it was about gardening.

I thought it was about a phoenix.

Probably the best interpretation op BPD ever. Midler did a great job an deserved her nomination. Could it be she was playing herself? I have a friend who worked for her; not a glowing report.

IIRC, Bruce Vilanch wrote some of the film. I can see that. Very talented writer.

I am here to testify that any movie, series, documentary with Bette Midler is all about Bette Midler and only Bette Midler.

Crying as I type this.

Does Bruce Vilanch have an Emmy?

WHERE'S EVERYBODY GOING?????

Could be, I don't know. I DON'T KNOW THE FUCKING NUMBER!

Okay, the end is heartbreaking. Heartbreaking. I remember seeing this film in 76 (I was too young) but LOVED IT! Some things never change.

Smell you. I don't think anyone else got to see it in 76.

I am so fabulous. She's dying. Gotta go.

Barry Primus was so hot. Goddamn. What next, bitches? Mommy Dearest?

Janis Joplin was nothing.

Her voice was gravel on drugs and she only had one minor hit prior to her death, "Piece of my Heart." "Me and Bobbie McGee" was released after her death, when she was suddenly "declared" to be great, and it sold.

How mediocre she was is best described when Janis went back to her high school reunion after being treated like the lezzed out, druggie she was, rented all sorts of fancy things, expecting to be treated like a queen and have everyone beg her forgiveness.

No one care about her and they all made more fun of her.

She is only a legend, because some editor at a rock magazine said she was and people bought it because there were no other females close to being rock.

I thought it was about Mrs. Miller!

"after being treated like the lezzed out, druggie she was,"

Listen to that little lesbophobic faggot

Go burn in hell

What a great film. Love it!

In the early stages of development the film was called Pearl and was a direct Joplin biopic, but I think they ran into legal complications. The Joplin family sanctioned the broadway musical that whitewashed Janis's drug-taking and lesbianism, which is like making a Liberace movie and downplaying his love of cock.

Mark Rydell did a great job, excellent. I know nothing about him personally but really appreciate his effort.

R55 is a philistine, insane and very stupid about music. Or charlie.

They did cartwheels to get his film produced under the moniker "Pearl." It didn't happen, an then came "The Rose." True classic despite its problems.

What are its problems? I've only seen the scene in the phone booth towards the end, and the one where the songwriter bitches her out for doing "bad" versions of his songs. Was that songwriter supposed to be Kris Kristofersson? Or Jerry Ragovoy?

It's confusing, r63. Midler was fabulous but the script was too big. Mark Rydell was passionate about making this film, a was Midler, thus The Rose. Honestly, how could Midler really pull off JJ? How can Amy Adams? Best to do a loose version.

R63, watch the film. Songwriter?

There's a scene where Midler is introduced to guy who wrote one of the songs for which she's famous. And he turns on her, "respectfully" asking that she stops doing his songs - I think he says she doesn't understand the songs. She's just shaken his hand but then slaps it away and flees in tears.

Ahh, the Harry Dean Stanton character. He was brilliant.

I heard Harry was so convincing he truly pissed Midler off. To the core. Watch the director's cut.

[quote]I can't sign this "The Bob Seger Troll", because this is most likely the only time he will ever be referenced on DL.

I used to think that the "sometimes when we touch, the artist eats too much" song was by Bob Seger, but it's not. It's Dan Hill.

But who was Stanton a stand in for? Or was the incident completely made up?

I suspect he was a composite character, r70.

The scene with Stanton was quite brief. He represented a Lead Belly/Muddy Waters type, but no one specifically.

Stanton was brilliant.

[quote] I suspect he was a composite character

You may be right. I think I read that Joplin and Kristofersson fucked around.

R55, Janis did have talent but she came along at a time when a woman fronting a band had to be pretty. She didn't fit the Grace Slick or Linda Ronstadt mold. She was also much better at blues (see Monterey Pop Festival "Ball & Chain) than rock, but rock was the ticket to fame back then. I remember watching that Dick Cavett episode where she boasted about her upcoming return to her school reunion. The locals were forewarned and gave her the cold shoulder. She never got over being the "ugly" girl who did the entire football team in a bid for acceptance.

Leonard Cohen wrote "Chelsea Hotel" for her and Joan Baez wrote "In the Quiet Morning" about Janis. Mimi Farina (who married Janis's boyfriend) sings with her sister on this tune.

Bette Midler does a better version of one of the songs from the film at link below.

The football thing breaks my heart. Wish it could have been me. Janice was a prodigy but not good lookin enough to make it today; a sad commentary on today's values.

Jackie Jomp-Jomp

[quote] not good lookin enough to make it today; a sad commentary on today's values.

Oh, please.

Sadly it's mostly true.

This movie sucked. And yes, I saw it in the theater when it came out.

Jesus, R55, go choke on someone else's vomit, you fucking homophobe.

A new movie is being made about Joplin. Will likely come out after this 40th 'new' Hendrix film.

R55 is the ghost of Jim Morrison. Still pissed about me breaking that bottle across your head Honey?

Can Adams pull it off? I like her but I don't know. Could be a disaster.

Can Amy Adams really pull this off? JJ is a bitch to cast; a very complex person and quite bright, also very needy. Who would you guys cast?

I'm sorry but as much as Midler TRIED, the sad truth of it all is that SOME should never try to play a rock star. . .

I jokingly mentioned her name before, but Melissa Leo could have done it in the 90s.

The Rose was and is a fabulous movie ! I will snatch you bitches bald for saying otherwise ! I still know every word to every song. This movie is the reason I fell in love with Janis !

Amy is just too. Well pretty. Joplin was not an ugly woman but let's be real, she's no AA and AA is no Joplin. I don't see it.

Angela Bassett looks nothing like Tina Turner.

Lili Taylor would have been a good choice back in the day.

Amy Adams has a limited range as is, this is such a ridiculous choice but TPTB are pushing her so hard these days (just see the latest page 6 planted item today, with like 5 Big Eyes screenings in 2 days). Some actors can stretch well beyond their physical types, but Adams plays everything so on the nose, never adding anything interesting that isn't already in the page, that this could never work.

[quote]I'm sorry but as much as Midler TRIED, the sad truth of it all is that SOME should never try to play a rock star. . .

[quote]by: B. Streisand

If only you'd taken your own advice, Babs.

Fair enough and great point, r90.

[quote] I'm sorry but as much as Midler TRIED, the sad truth of it all is that SOME should never try to play a rock star. . .

[quote] by: B. Streisand

[quote] If only you'd taken your own advice, Babs.

I love (read: don't love) when posters essentially repeat the jokes of other posters when quoting them...

B was horrible in ASIB and that film does not hold up. Not even a bit. God love B, she's too vain.

'snatch i bitches bald' - love it!

Joplin was homely and she said that herself, so anyone too pretty would, imo, be a really bad choice. But she could belt a damn song like a lion and a lamb in the same breath. For a young woman, she had a blues and whiskey soaked voice whoch suited her to rock. Whoever they pick, she has to be like ten tons of TNT in a small frame.

Not such a great point. Angela Bassett was a distraction as Tina Turner, with her long thin body and muscular arms. She didn't really pull it off as good an actress as she can be. I thought she overplayed every Tina lip curl and was an amatuer in the mimicked live performances. She never once captured the radiance or sexiness of Tina Turner. It bothers me still that Alfre Woodard didn't get to play the part.

Renee Zelwegger was attached to a Joplin film project for years. A much better choice than Amy Adams. Too late now of course.

The Rose is a showcase for the specific talents of Bette Midler, though the opening scene and the last 30 minutes are beautiful visual references to the memory of Joplin.

Zellwegger would have been good. AA has no depth. She has no soul inside any performance. Dare I say it, she is like the younger version of Streep whom I could not stand either.

The Fire Down Below scene doesn't work for me because I assume that The Rose lady is meant to appeal to heteros and not homos. So why should there be a drag queen doing her.

In the script Rose formerly lived above the bar.

Rose pissed off the Harry Dean character by drooling over his son.

That boy was so hot. "Hellooo, sturdly."

This is the perfect example of people confusing an actor/personality "letting it all hang out" with a "great performance." There's absolutely no skill there, and no conceptualization of a character - going for broke in practically every scene doesnt count. But to some that passes for "oh her performance was so RAW and HEARTBREAKING."

Shouldn't have even been nominated and I can't believe some actually think she should have won. And the movie is a total mess.

Now I'm shamelessly bumping this thread in hopes Midler will treat the help well. Love her.

Bump for Pearly-whirley.

Great movie. Bette sang her ass off.

What do you mean r76?, I count Janis as one of my heroes and inspirations.

I was a Joplin fan before she died- did not need to be told by Ben Fong Toores that she was great- and loved the Rose. R55 is some disgruntled slug posting on DL- what else is new?

Get out in that kitchen and rattle them pots and pans. And you better look pretty goddamn good doing it too or else you're gonna lose your good thing!

Hello Char lie. Thanks for responding.

R109 = absolute dork

R109 is quoting the film and very welcome in this thread, r111.

How are you doing?

Did you know Ben Fong Toores, Charlie. Wasn't he from Rollin Stone magazine? Talented editor IIRC.

R112, stop playing babysitter. It's ridiculous.

Big hug for 114.

Listen, if I thought you actually gave a damn I might've answered your question. But you don't care really, so stop it. If you're going to mock me, at least find the guts to do so obviously. Thanks.

I never knew the Third Reich meant Germany.

r20, I love Bob Seger. I like how his songs tell a story like 'Night Moves', 'Hollywood Nights', 'Roll Me Away'.

I wanted to be Janis Joplin.

I remember being like 13 years old and dying to see this and the critic in the Detroit Free Press said, "...Midler's acting will likely impress Academy voters but too much of it is in the same key..."

Considering the character is so exhausted and a big mess she did well but she didn't always convince as a rock and roller. But the least convincing element of Midler's singing has always been the sound of her voice - heartfelt and impassioned but not always pleasant to listen to. She tends to compress every song into her three or four note range and then strains for the rest of it.

If you watch this now it looks much more like a cheap TV movie. Because there's never any question of the cheater's trajectory it just plays like a bunch of OTT set pieces strung together for a showreel not a real, compelling story.

^^character's trajectory not cheaters

What is OTT?

Not at al R113. Typo too on my part- Torres I believe. He was the most prominent rock critic from RS in Joplin's day and after. I was responding to the silly post that said Joplin became a big deal after her death due to us being told how great she was etc.

I loved the Rose- Joplin was a very screwed up woman, but I don't think you can deny her talent and impact. Milder clearly played a version of her- and very well- deserved Oscar nomination in my opinion.

The movie looks cheap and Midler's voice is grating.

How old are you, R5? Bette Middler was 'new' to film at the time, and she was known to be 'bawdy' (well, bawdy for the 70s). At the time, she was probably considered perfect casting.

OMFG, charlie where have you been?!

I'm told this is great read on offers a glimpse of JJ's personality and life relationships.

I did hear it may be a bit varnished.

That "Fire Down Below" drag-queen bar scene was the wonderful, crown jewel of the movie. Best cover of a Bob Seeger song I've ever heard. And in whacky circumstances.

Here's a good read if you're looking for insight on Pearl's personality and personal life.

I'm told it's a bit varnished, but worth reading.

Sorry for the double post, either myself or dl's v eight are moving slowly.

Criterion is releasing a Bluray version of "The Rose" in May.

Bette Midler was not fit to wipe Janis Joplin's ass. Midler is a no talent cunt. I may be the only gay man in the world who can't stand Midler, but that's the way I feel.

Oh puhleeze. Next you'll be telling me "Grace Of My Heart" was about Carole King.

I'll join the [R132] club.

it was about marilyn monroe. how canyou not know this. even elton jon.wrote about her.

"If your DICK is as big as your brain,you really are in trouble" Bette Midler was brilliant in THE ROSE!!

Did you bitches see that Criterion is releasing The Rose on Bluray next month?

[quote]it was about marilyn monroe. how canyou not know this. even elton jon.wrote about her.

FUN FACT: Janis was in part the inspiration for Elton's "Candle in the Wind." The song is, of course, about Marilyn Monroe, but lyricist Bernie Taupin got the idea for the title from a quote he read about Janis Joplin, where she was referred to as "a candle in the wind."

The movie doesn't hold up today. The late 70s rock concert scenes are just exhausting and tedious, take up too many minutes of the film, and do little to move along the story. In between those scenes, Midler throwing tantrums and being a BPD nightmare. It's a relief when she drops dead at the end.

The movie doesn't hold up because Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy Midler is the antithesis of rock & roll.

It's Fong-Torres.

Hey all you mother fuckers

Candle in the Wind is most definitely about MM, not Janis. Janis was chunky, not someone "set on a treadmill". Janis Joplin was her birth name, not one they "made you change your name". The "young man in the 22nd row" is one in a movie theater... Whatever Bernie.

F&F OP, you'e too dumb to post.

Sorry not sorry.

R76, it's not a commentary on today's values. It's 50 years ago.

The Harry Dean Stanton scene was based on an encounter Janis Joplin had with Jerry Lee Lewis at The Pelican Club. It was the weekend she was home for her class reunion. She went backstage and hit on Jerry Lee's, either son, or one of his band. They had words and I believe she took a swing at Jerry Lee and he swung back, actually striking her. I don't know the actual quote, but his words to the effect were, "If you act like a man, I'll treat you like one!"