Was Dustin Hoffman Overrated?

perhaps because he usually didn't play characters who were taking it easy, OP.

You're not getting it, R1. But thanks for your response.

His best performance was in The Graduate. Then Midnight Cowboy. It's been downhill ever since.

His performance in "Rain Man" is simply awful. Tics and mannerisms galore. It's about as far away from an actual autistic person as you could get. How he won the oscar that year is still a mystery. %0D %0D That being said, he should have won for "Tootsie" instead.

I did love his work in WAG THE DOG.

Jack Nicholson and al pacino are worse offenders in that category, op (though each had nice performances early on their career).

I absolutely agree with R4. I hated "Rainman" with a passion.

He portrayal of Ratso Rizzo in Midnight Cowboy is one of the best in cinema history. That character stays with you forever.

I agree R8

How could THIS be overrated?

I thought he was great in Midnight Cowboy, The Graduate, Marathon Man and All the President's Men and John and Mary with Mia Farrow. I haven't seen many of his other movies.

And Tootsie of course!

I saw Tootsie a few years ago and it really holds up over time. He gave a great performance and all the other actors were great as well.

"Rain Man" is indeed awful, but "Tootsie" and "Kramer vs. Kramer" are wonderful performances.

Voight was better on "Midnight Cowboy", IMO.

R14, Voight wasn't better. They were equally sublime in very different roles.

FYI: Hoffman and Voight wanted to play the characters as gay lovers, like in the book, but Schlesinger told them that the studio and the audience wouldn't go for it, so they eliminated the gay subtext. And did you know that Lee Majors was the first pick to play Joe Buck, but he had to drop out when Big Valley was renewed. Elvis also wanted the role, but he wanted them to tone it down and include him singing.

Hated "Tootsie" Would have recognized a man in 10 seconds.

I remember someone costumed as "Rain man" at a Halloween party, with a naked blow up doll (Tommy) I always think of that when someone mentions the movie

Agree Voight was better in MC. So yes OP, I think he's overrated. And won't survive the inevitable culling of time

The Graduate will always be one of my all time fave movies.%0D %0D Anne Bancroft was splendid!

[quote]but Schlesinger told them that the studio and the audience wouldn't go for it, so they eliminated the gay subtext%0D %0D I've never heard that and I've watched all the documentaries.%0D %0D I always wondered how come Midnight Cowboy had such a fantastic soundtrack. Apparently, it was due to Schlesinger's hip young boyfriend.

Voight (hate him now) gave one of his all time best perforances in Midnight Cowboy, but Dustin was fantastic as Rizzo, no denying.

I LOVE the soundtrack and still play it often. There's a great ballad on there called A Famous Myth that is sublime and of course John Barry's amazing theme.

PLAYBOY: Midnight Cowboy was one of the first mainstream movies to be rated X HOFFMAN: When we were rehearsing it, Jon Voight and I suddenly said to each other%E2%80%94because we'd read the book by James Leo Herlihy%E2%80%94"These guys are gay." So we went to Schlesinger, who was openly gay, and said, "John, why aren't we just playing these guys gay? We avoid seeing them sleep together on the same dirty mattress on the floor in their abandoned dwelling." And John said, "Oh my God, I had enough trouble trying to get the studio to give me money, and now you want to do this? Nobody will come see this."

he sticks in your craw

He was completely awful in Perfume. Hammy crap.

Schlesinger was correct.

I think he is one of the best actors of his generation, maybe only Jack was better. My favorite role of his is nerd from The straw dogs.

.

Midnight Cowboy, The Graduate and, especially, Arthur Penn's Little Big Man, which I think is his best movie, reinforce his stature.

I like R11's list, until he included Tootsie as an afterthought. The original list is fine.

I got to the point where I despised Hoffman's work, until Wag the Dog.

It reminds me of how much I always hated Mandy Patinkin until Homeland.

They're both horribly mannered hams. I'm wondering if the difference is the director. Did someone finally sit them down and say if you want this role, you will act and cut out all the hammy shit?

I think Dustin Hoffman has been vastly overrated.

"My dear boy, why not try acting?"

--Laurence Olivier on the set of "Marathon Man," fed up with Hoffman's interminable and annoying "Method" preparations for his role

Hoffman was a great actor in his prime. As most older actors experience, he does not get the great roles offered to him and if he wants to keep working, he will take a mediocre role. DeNiro, Nicholson, Pacino are all in the same boat. You can't discount an actor's work when he was young just because of longevity. When you judge a body of work by an actor, you have to include everything.

I think I've been quoted as saying he was "a horrid little man."

Hoffman deserves all the credit he gets, except that he had the easy role in Rain Man. Tommy had the harder role as Charlie Babbitt.

His two great roles for me were in "The Graduate" and "Papillon."

I didn't buy him as a chick for a second in "Tootsie."

He was OK in "Midnight Cowboy," but Voight was the star of that movie.

Haven't seen "Little Big Man."

I think he's a great actor but hated The Graduate. Finally saw it recently and couldn't figure out what all the hype was.

You horrid gaggle of geese. Have you forgotten his sublime and yet oddly glorious, pedal-to-the-metal performance in ISHTAR?

He was so throughly believable in those desert scenes with Warren, that I couldn't stop drinking pee in the men's room during the entire final two reels.

I didn't buy him in "The Graduate" or "Marathon Man."

Pacino did a great job in "Dog Day Afternoon" That was groundbreaking.

He was great in LITTLE BIG MAN, which is also a wonderful movie.

And LENNY. And many others.

Pull your head out of your ass, OP.

"mr magorium's wonder emporium"

end thread.

I thought he was great as Screech.

I am always disappointed when a performance like his in Rain Man wins an Oscar. I can understand the general public thinking this is a "great performance", but shouldn't those in the industry recognize that it was just the same note over and over? It worked for what it was but I really think anyone could emulate this performance with very little acting experience.

Hoffman may have thought so, Voight may have thought so, but what supports Ratso and Joe being gay? It's a story about a straight hustler and small time grifter (who could be gay but it hardly matters), both with good hearts, who form a bond and.... well, frankly, not all that much happens.

No he's not overrated. If anything he is underrated. Pacino, De Niro & Nicholson are more overrated in my book. Yes they are talented but still, overrated like crazy. Pacino overacts and yells all the time. De Niro doesn't have much range the older he got. And Jack he's always just Jack. Hoffman is the most versatile for sure. And for people putting down his performance in Rainman, I want to see any of you guys do better! I've been exposed to many people w/autism and his performance was spot on. Oh well haters, hate away.

Yup r10, it's all about Tootsie. Shame that was in a very tough year.

I don't think the Kramer Oscar was deserved, but Ratso Rizzo is a classic. I'm sure Joaquin Phoenix was channelling a bit of Ratso in The Master.

[quote] And for people putting down his performance in Rainman, I want to see any of you guys do better

How old are you?

Someone doesn't appreciate an actor's performance and you say that?

I liked him in Midnight Cowboy, The Graduate, Papillon, Kramer vs Kramer, All the President's Men, Marathon Man, and I Heart Huckabees.

I felt he deserved both his Oscar wins. He also deserved to win for his performances in both Tootsie and Midnight Cowboy...but competition was stiff that year.

Dustin has had an amazing career. He's not overrated. He's not overwhelmingly well liked in the industry because he can be a pain in the ass, like in Tootsie, the role closest to him personally. I would agree in comparison DeNiro, Pacino, and Nicholson, all of whom have done great work, are overrated.

DH was and always will be great.

He was great when he was younger, but he became more mannered and hammier as he aged. He also lost his looks quickly (something that often happens to Jewish men once they hit 40).

Rain Man was supposed to be an aspie?

I thought he was playing a retard!

He's a big flirt with everyday women.

Both Hoffman and Voight are very cool guys who are funny and flirty.

They still look good and would be a hit at any party.

I think one of his later roles, as the lit prof in Stranger Than Fiction, was notably un-hammy.

THANK you, R42. No, he's not overrated;he's a great actor. Just finished watching "Tootsie" on TCM. WONDERFUL movie; great performance.

Loved him in "Lenny"!

Tootsie, Midnight Cowboy and the Geaduate are a testimony to his range. I give Hoffman his due..

He's the definition of "Methoding Away". A collection of tics, quirks, and stammering. What did Olivier say to him during Marathon Man? "Why not try acting? It's much easier."

That Olivier story has been blown out of proportion. If you watch Hoffman's Inside The Actors Studio episode he explains what really happened. Olivier thought highly of Hoffman and praised a lot of his performances (especially Tootsie). He even wished Hoffman was his son. Even James Stewart thought Dustin was the best actor of his generation, and rightly so.

I watched Tootsie tonight too, r54. Hoffman is excellent in it. The whole movie is fantastic. Great performances from Murray, Garr, Pollack, Durning, and Lange. And George Gaynes as Dr. Brewster was phenomenal. 30+ years later and the movie holds up as well as when it was first released.

He was a bit one note, quite good but definitely not really great.

Loved him in the 70s (Little Big Man, Marathon Man, All The President's Men, Kramer v Kramer) and actually thought he was attractive back then.

Tootsie was the highlight of his career. The only thing I've liked him in since was "Last Chance Harvey" with Emma Thompson who was also wonderful.

Cher mentioned in her 'bio' that M warned her never to work with a certain actor (who she would not name). I'm sure it was Hoffman.

I think Dustin still looks quite good. He's aged a lot better than Nicholson or Pacino. I thought he was adorable in the first of the Fockers movies in which he played, of all things, Babs' husband.

Cher wrote a bio?

M did say once when they met he honked her breasts and she thought "who is this disgusting little man."

Who is M?? I'm curious...

I never thought Dustin was a ham or a "one note actor" at all. Pacino is more of a ham. While De Niro is the one note IMO. (I'm a fan of both, but just sharing my honest thoughts) Compare some of Dustin's roles. From Straight Time to Kramer VS Kramer; Midnight Cowboy to Tootsie. You wouldn't even think all those (extremely different) roles were played by the same actor. He is versatile; he has range, and he is great. One of the most important actors in film history by far. And I agree with reply 62, Dustin has aged well. He's always looked 10 years younger. He was 30 when he did The Graduate, but could easily pass as the age his character Benjamin was intended to be (20-21). And in his later years he always possessed some kind of youthfulness about him. Maybe him being short/petite worked to his advantage after all.

R64 compared to great actors like PSH, John Goodman, Bardem, Rockwell, Dench, DDL, RDJ, Macy and lots of others he is pretty mediocre.

I am M.

Bardem & RDJ better than Hoffman?? Seriously? They aren't versatile actors at all. And speaking of overrated....DDL I'm looking at you.

John Goodman a great actor? No. A very likable actor. There's a difference, dear.

RDJ a great actor? Sure he's good looking and does well at comedy, but I wouldn't consider him a versatile or great actor by any means. Just because you are a box office name, does not make you superbly talented. Even RDJ himself wouldn't agree that he's better than Dustin. I bet 65 hasn't even watched any of Hoffman's films, since majority of the actors listed are not better than DH. No, just no.

PSH, RDJ, Bill Macy and John Goodman are all great actors and better than Dustin Hoffman??

No way DH is as daring as PSH, DDL or RDJ - he was a star but not a top actor.

He recently directed a film Quartet, with Maggie Smith, Tom Courtenay and other British actors, about retired opera singers in a lush retirement home. It was the most boring film I had ever seen, he seems to have learned nothing from all the directors he worked with, talk about pedestrian, it was everything I hated about cinema for squares.

[quote]Hoffman may have thought so, Voight may have thought so, but what supports Ratso and Joe being gay? It's a story about a straight hustler and small time grifter....

A straight hustler? May as well be a unicorn. Women do not pay for sex. At least not in the strictest sense of cash for a one-off. What does the book say? Anyone read it?

No. Not at all.

Kramer vs. Kramer, Midnight Cowboy, The Graduate, Lenny and especially Tootsie are all great films, and he's great in them. The Oscar for Rain Man (which really was Tom Cruise's film) always seemed like a afterthought when he didn't win for Tootsie.

No one's mentioned his small but priceless role as Mumbles in Dick Tracy. He was hilarious in that, one of the highlights of an overwrought film.

RDJ is extremely talented but has not demonstrated the range, and Sam Rockwell is as well, but most of the films he's been in don't come close to Hoffman's oeuvre.

I take Moon, Confessions of a Dangerous Mind, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang and Tropic Thunder anytime over what Hoffmann did. Both from the acting quality and from the quality of the movie.

Ishtar was unfortunate. Rain Man was horrid. All the rest, Dustin has been great.

Bancroft was only 36 when she played Mrs. Robinson.

Tropic Thunder better than anything Hoffman has done?? Haha oh please. Can't take your opinion seriously. RDJ isn't even the best actor of his own generation, let alone being better than Hoffman. 50 years from now it'll be Hoffman and his work that will be remembered and celebrated, not RDJ.

Sorry if this was mentioned already but he acted like a complete psycho in the movie about Woodward and Bernstein because the director wanted him to turn on a light in his bedroom when hearing a strange noise because " his character would not turn on a light !"

I agree that Kramer vs. Kramer, Tootsie, Midnight Cowboy and The Graduate are among his best films. Most actors would kill to have those films on their résumé. He was going through a divorce during Kramer and took out his anger (or used it as method acting?) on Streep. For whatever reason, he lost his luster as an actor after Tootsie. He has been hammered on awards shows. His wife must really love him because he seems like a handful, although more mellow with age. The Quartet was mildly amusing and I respect him for attempting to direct a film later in life.

I adored him in Little Big Man. One of my all-time favorite films and I had a huge crush on Hoffman in my teen years because of LBM.

"I think I've been quoted as saying he was "a horrid little man."

I tend to agree with Meryl. He does NOT have a good reputation among his fellow actors. I can't stand him in most things, but I loved him in "Tootsie." And I think that movie was about his reputation as hard to work with. He was so difficult, he had to pretend to be a woman to get work. That may have happened to Dustin, too, if he hadn't been so massively popular.

Popular with moviegoers, that is. Not co-workers.

The story about him and Meryl not getting along is old news and played out. Sure Dustin isn't perfect and has had a reputation of being difficult to work with (though that's not the case in the present; quite the contrary), but I don't see how that's a big deal or how that is relevant to him being a great actor or not. He's a method actor (a very intense one at that) who has always been passionate about his craft. He was a struggling actor for 12 years before making it big, so I can understand why he took it even more seriously once he did. He just appreciated getting work and wanted to do his very best. He's 76 now, I'm sure he has mellowed out and isn't anything like the person he was when he was in his 30s or 40s...people CAN change. Today he is known for being friendly and generous. Just noticed die-hard Streep fans always use that story against Dustin, but it doesn't take away from his talent IMO. That happened over 30 years ago, move on. There was a picture of Meryl & Dustin from last year at the Kennedy Center awards, so I'm sure they put aside their differences by now.

Not as overrated as Alan Alda.

I thought one of Dustin's better post-Tootsie performances was in Moonlight Mile. He played a grieving father and I thought he was really good even if the movie itself was a bit underwhelming

[quote]Not as overrated as Alan Alda.

I don't think Alan Alda was ever heralded as the incredibly talented actor Hoffman was.

Was he ever even considered a good actor?

Bump.

If anything, I think he's underrated. Of the big four so to speak, he has become the most forgotten, which is sad. But he has done some nice work over the past two decades, even if ithas been more under the radar. I would also say he hasn't had the embarrassing lows especially of a DeNiro or Pacino.

Why? Some have suggested it's because he doesn't have the alpha male persona that keeps the others legendary in most people's minds. I really don't know. But I would argue that he is the most talented. He's easily the most versatile, and I would also say that he has the best gift for comedy. And his 1967-82 streak is pretty much flawless.

I disagree with the Pauline Kael inspired Rain Man critiques, but maybe I'll save that for later if this thread gets revived. I also think that he has aged quite nicely - certainly the best of the four - and he is definitely the most engaging as an interviewee.

He also seems to have very much mellowed out as he has gotten older. Has that coincided with Hoffman not pushing himself as hard? Perhaps. That would be unfortunate, but there may be something to it. There's an old article on his filming of Straight Time that makes me think that he had a breaking point, and after that he didn't want to drive himself crazy - and perhaps to an early grave - anymore.

I thought he was very good as Willie Loman in the 1985 version of "Death of a Salesman" with Charles Durning and John Malkovich. He made me cry.

It's been years since I've seen it, but I remember being really moved by his performance in Papillon (with Steve McQueen).

I don't see it mentioned up thread, so maybe my memory is faulty? Or I would never make a good film critic?

He was terrible as Willy Loman. He was too small and meek for that iconic, big blowhard.

Never seen Little Big Man in my life. People keep mentioning it. A lot of '70s movies however great get put on the shelf to gather dust.

Bumping a 10 year old thread? Plus the "Never seen Little Big Man..." comment to do it? Yikes. Go back to bed.

Dustin Hoffman, Barbra Streisand, Elliot Gould and Woody Allen were part of a wave of openly Jewish Hollywood stars in the 1960s who proved that you could belong to an ethnic minority and still be a big box office draw. It was a very big deal at the time.

He was and still is.

I liked him in "The Graduate" and "All The President's Men".

I always get him confused with Elliot Gould.

I like him in Agatha opposite Vanessa Redgrave. It's a nice change of pace role for Hoffman playing a dandy.

It’s debatable whether he would become a star now. Actors now have to look good enough to sell products.

He was really a great actor and then after Tootsie he went downhill fast. He is inherently unlikeable. Tootsie makes fun of how he is difficult to work with.

And the actor Streep was referring to was Roy Scheider, although she also did not like working with Hoffman or Charles Dance.

Straw Dogs, Lenny, Papillon,Midnight Cowboy, Kramer vs. Kramer, All the President's Men, Rain Man, Hook, Kung Fu Panda are the bests movies Dustin Hoffma.

Click click click

Dustin needs to rethink his toupees. The wigs he wore in the late 1970s were excellent, the 80s-90s obvious, and for the last 10-20 years, ridiculous.

I saw The Graduate when it was re-released in 1973, and what made the movie for me - Simon and Garfunckel songs on the soundtrack. Many older movies are like that, Midnight Cowboy had an excellent soundtrack. A movie like Summer of 42, which I disliked, had a glorious soundtrack. It is another thread?

One of his best performances is as a parolee in 1978's Straight Time a criminally (pun intended) forgotten film with a terrific cast: Theresa Russell, Harry Dean Stanton, Gary Busey, M. Emmet Walsh, Harry Dean Stanton and a slim Kathy Bates all of whom are superlative. Considering Hoffman was a particular type due to his face and voice he did excellent work in The Graduate, Little Big Man and Tootsie.

[quote] Actors now have to look good enough to sell products.

For which Henry Cavill is forever grateful.

[quote[Dustin needs to rethink his toupees. The wigs he wore in the late 1970s were excellent, the 80s-90s obvious, and for the last 10-20 years, ridiculous.

I don't think he wears a wig at all, Mary - don't know where you got that from.

[quote]Bumping a 10 year old thread? Plus the "Never seen Little Big Man..." comment to do it? Yikes. Go back to bed.

Yikes, I wish I could be clever and witty like you.

R104, there are photos of him circa 1979 without his wig. And if you think this "hair" on an 83 year old man is real, I will guess that you're under 30.

He has a film in pre-production so it seems his Me Too troubles are subsiding, though it looks like an independent and not a Hollywood film.

Very overrated and an absolute asshole. Abusive, nasty, narcissist who is convinced acting is as important as curing cancer.

A stupid stupid stupid midget. HATED by about 80% of Hollywood, though he wouldn’t deign to care, while cashing big fat studio checks. Cannot wait till we never have to look at his idiot face ever again.

[quote][R104], there are photos of him circa 1979 without his wig.

link please

[quote]And if you think this "hair" on an 83 year old man is real, I will guess that you're under 30.

Yes, I do...100% natural.

[quote]He has a film in pre-production so it seems his Me Too troubles are subsiding,

He's kept a very low profile since, hasn't he?

Dustin and Robert Redford looking as good as new just a few years ago. You'd never know they were over 40 in those rugs!

I watched an interview with him where he spoke about filming Kramer vs Kramer. He really emotionally manipulated that little boy to get a performance out of him. I haven't liked him since.

Michael Douglas was another big movie star of the 80s, so relatively speaking, no, Hoffman was not overrated.

[quote]I watched an interview with him where he spoke about filming Kramer vs Kramer. He really emotionally manipulated that little boy to get a performance out of him. I haven't liked him since.

The kid loved him and still loves him.

No. He is a great actor.

R32, Another totally underrated great actor.

R50 What's the difference between those two?

Yes, but he is Jewish so of course Hollywood was going to shove him down everyone's throats.

R117 An aspie is a kind of snake and a retarded aspie is one that moves slowly.

R118 = not too bright.

Funnily enough I saw a reference to "Lenny" somewhere, just today - not sure if it was just a bad film or if it was his fault.

I once jerked off to him in Little Big Man. Or maybe it was Marathon Man. I thought he was cute in the 70s!

" He really emotionally manipulated that little boy to get a performance out of him"

That's what the DIRECTOR does. The way to get performances out of children, especially children who have never acted before, it to TRICK THEM. Same thing for animals.

R120 So he isn't jewish?

^ Mary McStupid is back.

R125 Great response, I guess you don't have a counter argument.

R110 - it look like he didn't work for 2 years and then did an Italian film Into the Labyrinth.