Theatre Gossip #339: The “Is There A Betty Buckley Equivalent to ‘When did I eat corn?’l Edition

Does Betty use tampons when she has diarrhea, too?

Who's palying the leads in Encores' I Married an Angel?

Once when asked why divorced she divorced Peter Flood, she replied, "Eight was just not enough."

If you want to hear a white Porgy and Bess, get the Mel Torme/Frances Faye recording.

Raul was wonderful as Charlie in that 2002 Kennedy Center production of "Merrily." I always found "Franklin Shepard Inc." extremely annoying on the original cast CD and used to skip over it. Raul made it a showstopper.

[quote]If you want to hear a white Porgy and Bess, get the Mel Torme/Frances Faye recording.

I'd rather take a beating.

Esparza really was fantastic, especially In that song.. His George that summer didn’t work, and his Bobby crossed the line from wrongheaded into flat out bad.

R7, what didn't you like about Esparza's George? I thought he and Melissa Errico were excellent in those roles.

Casting an Asian boy as the son in Falsettos opens the possbility that Marvin & Trina adopted and never fucked which fucks with the entire story

Gee, R9, you're not reaching at all, are you?

[quote]Casting an Asian boy as the son in Falsettos opens the possbility that Marvin & Trina adopted and never fucked which fucks with the entire story

Not to mention the fact that there is AN ENTIRE MUSICAL SEQUENCE -- one of the best moments in the show -- about how Jason can't play baseball because's he's Jewish, and they are no good at it.

Between the utterly ridiculous and embarrassing billing of the cast as "Broadway superstars" in the press release, and the casting of an Asian kid as Jason, my desire to see this FALSETTOS tour is less than zero.

That was my point in R590 in the previous thread. We're supposed to look at this casting as race-blind (RB) not race-conscious (RC). With RB you are required to suspend disbelief and ignore what you see and in RC you are required to process what you see. We just need that legend posted in Playbill.

I thought Esparza tried so hard to dull his emotive impulses that the whole performance felt flat. Patinkin, for perhaps the last time until Homeland. managed to balance his hammy instincts with George’s external chilliness. Jake G did this even more effortlessly.

Errico was great - sang beautifully and looked like a porcelain doll. But the whole point of the show is that he loves Dot, but loves his painting more. That didn’t come across, largely because of Esparza.

R13, in the case of the FALSETTOS casting, I guess it would have to be "race-blind," since they are presumably going to keep the song about how Jewish boys can't play baseball. So I guess we are still supposed to see Jason as a Jewish boy even though he's being played by an Asian. Right?

Plus Eric Schaeffer directed it, which usually guarantees a good nap.

Correct, R15. It's RB casting. Jason is still a little Jewish boy and the natural son of Marvin and Trina, regardless of what your eyes tell you.

I did a whole Porgy & Bess medley on my Broadway Album. I sang Porgy AND Bess. It was fabulous.

Color Blind casting? Shoshana Bean IS Celie!!!!!!!

Cynthia Ervio is Mother in Ragtime!

R13, if you have to ignore what you see on the stage, why not save money, stay home, and not see it there.

You totally believed Raul was in love with Michael Hayden in that Kennedy Center Merrily.

"The posters who constantly try to point out the inconsistencies of non-traditional casting"

Thank you for agreeing so readily, previous thread poster...

Mel Torme was a very great artist. Lord knows, he had his faults, but what a virtuoso!

From the previous thread: "the quality of "Hairspray" and "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels" would have not been out of place when good musicals where being done more frequently."

Except their scores would have been considered second-tier by comparison.

[quote]You totally believed Raul was in love with Michael Hayden in that Kennedy Center Merrily.

I had the same reaction, especially during "Franklin Shepard Inc."

Baz Bamigboye tweeted that the cast album of the NT Follies will finally be available for download on iTunes and Spotify after midnight, UK time. I don’t know if it will be available here in the US at the same time or after we hit our midnight.

He also tweeted that Matthew Broderick will make his West End debut opposite Elizabeth McGovern in Kenneth Lonergan’s The Starry Passenger, at the Wyndhams starting in May. I hope Broderick stays off the road-they drive on the wrong side over there, you know.

Oops, sorry, I meant The Starry Messenger.

Raul was still married and pretending to be straight back in those days. He wasn't foolin' nobody except maybe his wife.

Jason in 'Falsettos' is asian.......well that seems totally fucking stupid. Is he playing it as Jason or as asian?

Color blind casting is great/not an issue for many shows and many roles.

And, unbelievably stupid for some roles/shows.

My huge peeve is when it's supposed to characters related by birth and you have higgly piggly casting just for the sake of being "modern".

Look, you wanna promote diversity/fair casting then cast the Lomans as Asian and the neighbours as Latinos....great. Do it. Find some exceptional actors and do that production.

But, why the fuck make Willy black and Linda Asian and Biff a Mexican dwarf in a wheelchair and ....so dumb and distracting.

AND, best of all, why not just create interesting new plays/musicals ABOUT black or Asian or Latin characters? We want to SEE those stories not lazy virtue signal casting proclaiming how awesome a theater company is .

I totally agree with you, r30. Very smart post!

But I do wonder if we're just going through an extreme trend right now to make up for years of "traditional" casting and things will become a bit more as you describe them in your 4th paragraph?

I wonder why DL fave Tori Spelling never did Broadway. I know she has no talent, but she would sell tickets. Her often estranged mother has bankrolled several musicals and even won a producing Tony. Surely she could have given her daughter a bone and employement of some kind

[quote]I wonder why DL fave Tori Spelling never did Broadway.

Well, we're overdue for a revival of "The Blonde in the Thunderbird."

I bet Barry and Fran have begged her to do Roxie

R30 The problem is getting producers to find those great new plays about Latinos, Asians, disabled people--until that happens, I'm fine suspending disbelief to give a more diverse pool of talented actors opportunities. I agree, it can take more work for audiences to make those imaginative leaps, especially when a play is so deeply about family bonds (I'd have to work very hard to have an Inuit Mary Tyrone with an African American Jamie, for example) and in some cases might just not work, either for some plays and/or dome audiences. And no, I'm not ready for the Youngers to be played by white actors--we're still too close in time to when "A Raisin in the Sun" takes place for that to succeed (for me). But Shakespeare, the Greeks, Ibsen, Chekov, much of Shaw--sure..

Fund, not find (but maybe both?)

R35 Well, that moron asian writer got a play on Broadway 'Dear White people', which did not address her own experiences at all, in anyway. So also make sure writers of colour write about their own fucking experiences

I do think that, unless it's a fairy tale, there needs to be some realism in the show. If you're doing Gypsy with a black Rose, you better not have two pale white girls as June and Louise. That just wouldn't happen in the real world. At least cast a Latina who can look like she might be sorta mixed. It takes me right out of the story. The same if Rose was Asian and Louise was black. How the fuck would that ever happen in the real world? You just took a fairly realistic story (yes, minus the singing) and turned it into something so bizarre and weird that it'd only be watchable for the trainwreck quality of it all.

If you wanted to make Bobby in Company black (yes, it's been done obviously), it's not an issue as we never see his parents, siblings, or any children, so you don't have to cast based on those factors. It has to make some sense or else it just seems like a P.C. circle jerk with everyone saying "gosh, we're so open minded. Aren't we great?" There's a way to be open minded and there are also ways to make sure the audience will never be fully invested in a show.

Still can’t download the NT Follies here in the US.

r39 Check the reddit feed that posts shows, they have it

A while back Tori and hef deadbeat hubby were in talks to join Chicago but it never happened. And didn't it take Broderick a really long time to learn his lines when he did The Starry Messenger off broadway? He had to call for line many times during previews

And what's wrong with that, r41?

Falsettos can have an asian Jason but you could never cast a non-asian as one of the Royal children in King and I. Doesn't seem right.

Let's do an all Latino "Cat On a Hot Tin Roof" set in Mexico. Drug money all over the house and Big Daddy dressed as El Chapo He and Maggie could squirm naked through a sewer pipe to escape Big Mama..

OP, you couldn't give Carol her own thread title?

This argument annoys me no end: "If you can suspend your disbelief enough to have people singing & dancing or speaking in iambic pentameter, then you should be able to accept colorblind casting."

But I don't. Not when it introduces unwarranted elements into the play or when it flies in the face of science & genetics.

Sorry, I just can't accept an Asian Jason in FALSETTOS. Just as I couldn't accept a Caucasian Cosette as the offspring of a Korean Fantine (in London several years ago). Or an African-American Eponine with her White Anglo parents, the Thenardiers (on Broadway). And, in the recent KING LEAR with Ian McKellan, casting a Black actress as Cordelia raised questions that the play itself never addressed and so couldn't answer.

Part of reason I CAN accept characters breaking out into song & dance is because the rest of their "world" illuminates/mirrors mine.

Casting should be no different than costumes, set design, etc. If you want to take the "suspend disbelief" argument to its extreme, then why doesn't Eponine wear torn jeans and a halter top? Why should period appropriate costuming be any more important than genetically appropriate casting? You want to make all the Thenardiers Black? Fine. But targeted, selective casting, under the auspices of being "colorblind", is ridiculous.

[quote]If you want to take the "suspend disbelief" argument to its extreme, then why doesn't Eponine wear torn jeans and a halter top?

And, for that matter, why can't Eponine be played by an 80-year-old, 300-pound actress? Actors are right for certain roles and not right for others based on several criteria, including gender, age, physical type -- and, yes, race.

LOL at the notion that Tori Spelling “would sell tickets”!

Excellent point, R47.

I want to be transported to other worlds when I see a show. I don’t feel I’ve been transported to 1830s France when Javert is played by a black man. Because it’s obvious that black men were a bit thin on the ground in France back then and the few that were there never ever reached any position of power like Javert.

hate to tell ya, R49, that there were plenty of Blacks in France in the 1800s. Let me guess: you're American?

Betty Buckley: "God, I hope I had the borscht at lunch."

Shame on OP for not honoring Carol Channing directly in the title.

I downloaded the NT Follies and I’m in SF, not midnight yet. I found it searching Janie Dee.

r50 Tell their stories, don't make white characters black for questionable reasons.

Alexander Dumas Dad was half black, tell his story

Christ, you cunts are tedious.

Josie Rourke said in a recent interview: “I sometimes feel, that people’s reaction to a person of colour in a film is more an index of their prejudices than about having a real issue with authenticity.”

If you have an issue with a black Eponine, then you need to work harder on your interpretive skills. The problem is with you, not with the casting.

Part of reason I CAN accept characters breaking out into song & dance is because the rest of their "world" illuminates/mirrors mine. I do not live in an exclusively white world and it is always distracting when I see a production in which everyone one is white. It takes me out of the play, whether it is Les Miz, Falsettos, etc. I find myself asking why everyone is white instead of being able to simply accept the story.

If a statement is being made, that is one thing. But I bet most of these all white casts are not statements, but simply because the creative team does not consider dark skinned people interesting enough to hold the stage.

The problem with *color blind casting* is that it can change the entire balance of the show. An excellent example is "The Play that goes Wrong." The original cast was entirely white. (Nancy Zamit refers to herself as slightly Hispanic.) The replacement cast on Broadway has AAs as the stage manager and the techie. It completely changes the balance of the show. The rivalry between the "actress" and the "stage manager" takes on a whole different meaning when it is a white girl and a black girl pulling each other's hair. To pretend that this isn't the case is just foolish.

Now if this was *color conscious* casting and the director wanted to add meaning, that would be fine. It is done intentionally.

R57 demonstrates how racist minds work. Are you seriously trying to argue that “The Play That Goes Wrong” depends on suspending disbelief?

F&F r57. What an asshole.

Tori Spelling *IS* Falsettos

Tori Spelling IS Carol Channing in "Corn! The Carol Channing Musical"

Esparza is a big fat ball of nothing. He’s never going to happen.

He "happened" years ago. He spent several years on SVU, which is suffering without him.

R58 and R59, no, this is how critical thought works. Two white girls in a hair pulling match is not the same as a black girl and a white girl in a hair pulling match. To pretend that it is, is foolish. It is an excellent example of how ignoring race can affect a slight play with no message. Casting a black actor as the slightly dim-witted actor could also be problematic. The characters lack of intelligence could be seen as race based not just a character trait. The paradox is that it would be the "woke" people who would be most like to find that casting offensive.

It “lack of intelligence could be seen as race based” - yeah. By a racist.

A paying audience at a professional production should not have to make leaps in logic to believe two people who could not be related by blood are related by blood when trying to watch a play. Simple as that. You cannot will away the vast majority’s reaction to having to figure that out. It’s a form of narrative economy.

um, any gossip out there?

Sure r67, but if this thread is any indication, it's pretty much all racist.

R66 has it exactly right. And as far as I can tell, it's only a couple of posters (maybe the same one on different devices) shrieking about how racist it is for audiences to not just sit back and take in the absurdity. "But don't forget to give us your money! NO REFUNDS!"

I've never seen Falsettos. Know only the basics, seems like I might enjoy it. I go. The white couple has an Asian child. Okay, they adopted him. He's singing about being Jewish. What ? I'm confused.

and r70 the father turns out to be gay so adopting a child changes the entire history of his relationship with his wife and actually the child (who is concerned that he'll be gay from heredity

When a Jewish couple adopts an Asian child, isn't the child usually Jewish and unable to play baseball?

R53, thanks. I downloaded most of it. Didn’t download “The Right Girl.” I HATE “The Right Girl.”

Seriously? Arguing against casting African Americans as a stage manager and a techie in a backstage comedy? Yeah, that's not racist at all. It's just as well this thread didn't honor Carol Channing in the title, because it's gone straight down the shitter.

Lol, no one has given a fuck about SVU for years, hon. No one knows or cares about a bit player on a show that was well past its sell by date over a decade ago. But you tried it.

'Falsettos can have an asian Jason but you could never cast a non-asian as one of the Royal children in King and I. Doesn't seem right."

It is totally unfair and racist to cast an Asian person in a white role.

Has there ever been a black Evita?

r77 Audra played Evita at Roger Rocka's Dinner Theater in Fresno.

Yes...people in 2019 need to be confused at a play because racist cartoons were made 70+ years ago. Makes complete and total sense, R78! You sure got us!

Raul Sounds like he swallowed a vibrator when singing. Hate him onstage; love him as Barba on SVU

[quote]Raul Sounds like he swallowed a vibrator

Pics please.

Raul E a bit player on SVU? You clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about. He was Barba, the ADA. One of the leads, appeared in the opening credits. And plenty of people still care about it. He had some good story arcs. He left because he wanted to get back to theatre - you know, theatre, where he's been nominated for the Tony multiple times, in every male acting category there is? Where he's still considered a star?

You such an idiot you're not even worth dealing with.

r84: Esparza's mom?

No, r86, it's one of Raul's obsessed Tumblrina fans. You have no idea the lengths to which they will go in their obsession. Notice they said "you're such an idiot you're not even worth dealing with" and yet they had just spent an entire detailed paragraph doing just that?

Lol R84. NO ONE CARES.

Ik people like to dunk on Nick Adams but he's the best casting in that production

r84 seems deranged.

Well, r90, by most reasonable standards, those Tumblrina fans of Raul's ARE deranged. So good observation on your part.

[quote]in the case of the FALSETTOS casting, I guess it would have to be "race-blind," since they are presumably going to keep the song about how Jewish boys can't play baseball.

It's not just in that song, though. The Jewishness is woven through the whole show. The very first song is "Four Jews in a Room Bitching." And Act 2 is all about the kid's Bar Mitzvah. You can't exclude the Jewishness from the piece.

Was the character of Solange black in the original 'Follies', cause it the National production it seemed very very strange to have a black woman in the twenties in the Follies

No, the original Solange was Fifi D'Orsay. Solange, like Stella, has been played by a black actress in more than one revival. The equivalent in real life would have been Josephine Baker's appearance in the Ziegfeld Follies.

The original Solange was Fifi d'Orsay who was a stage and screen star in the late 1920s and 30s but continued to play cliched French lady character roles as she aged. She often said: "Ooh la la!"

She can be seen with Bing Crosby in the 1933 film Going Hollywood. He sings his huge hit "Temptation" to Fifi.

Fifi wasn't black, r94, but have you ever heard of Josephine Baker?

Fifi!

r94 r95 Did any other black woman perform in the Follies apart from Josephine. And they blacked up an actual white character>? Oh, dear

[quote]Did any other black woman perform in the Follies apart from Josephine.

There was a separate Follies type show for black audiences. And of course, places like the Cotton Club. Lena Horne was a "showgirl" when she first started out.

What gave you that impression, r97?

[quote]Did any other black woman perform in the Follies apart from Josephine.

Also, there were specialty numbers. For example, Ethel Waters did "Supper Time" in 1933 in Irving Berlin's show "As Thousands Cheer".

Generally, it seems that the high profile Follies revivals cast a black woman as Stella (the "token" black role). But really some of the other woman could be cast as black.

r98 So no, they didn't

This thread has hit a new, mind-numbing low. Not only are we ridiculously obsessing about color blind casting, but now we’ve included Follies in the discussion! God help me I should have seen this coming.

Blackbirds of 1928....

R105, that’s not really a vintage clip, right? It seems too provocative for the period.

Eartha Kitt was Carlotta in the London Follies in the 80s, taking over from Dolores Gray.

Kristin Chenoweth wants to bring Tammy Faye Bakker to Broadway.

The NT Follies recording sounds like a cheap rush job with some real wtf decisions and cuts. We may never agree on what the best cast recording of Follies is, but I think we have a good contender for the worst.

Well, we know what the most complete is, r112.

Who would be good in a cast of Follies?

Fritzi Scheff.

[quote]Who would be good in a cast of Follies?

Finally, a topic that's never been discussed in the DL theater threads before!

Thank you for remembering, r117. This is for you!

[quote]Generally, it seems that the high profile Follies revivals cast a black woman as Stella

The Roundabout revival in 2001 cast the fabulous Jane White as Solange, playing it very Josephine Baker-esque. It was perfect, and made total sense.

This thread has been taken over by Matt Anscher, the Loon. Most, if not all, of the casual racism comes from him.

Theda Barra, Fiske O'Hara, Palais Royal, Standard Oil. Man O' War, Barrymore, Fritzi Scheff, Mutt and Jeff, Belmont Jack, Crackerjack!

Will I have to do that goddamn mirror number, r117?

I kept expecting Victoria Mallory to walk out and join her in song, r119.

From the London Cosette:

Hi guys. Gentle reminder to audiences that you don't have to love every actors performance but going out of your way to make it glaringly obvious to me how much you didn't enjoy mine, during my bow, is slightly unnecessary and very hurtful. I do have feelings lol 🙃🙃

Unfortunately, being an actress of colour, the question often comes up 'did they not like my performance or did they not like the fact that I'm black?'

And, while I'm aware it may have just been a case of this individual not enjoying my performance, the aggressive nature of their actions shown towards me along with some comments I have seen on social media about my casting in the show make me feel the need to say something

I love playing the role of Cosette and I don't believe the colour of my skin, in any way, dictates whether or not I am right for the role. I don't want to be 'a black Cosette' I just want to be Cosette. Unfortunately it seems we still have a way to go until people can accept that

Betty is coming to LA in Hello Dolly! Hard pass.

But.....but, r126....she's the ONE and ONLY!

Is anyone going to the last performance of School of Rock this weekend?

God, I hated that miserable show.

Trying to decide if I want to buy a ticket to "Tootsie." I thought the movie was just okay but do like Santino a lot, so he would be the draw for me.

Hate to tell you, R50, but a black man would NEVER have been a police inspector in France in the 1800s, so your point is pointless.

[quote]If you have an issue with a black Eponine, then you need to work harder on your interpretive skills. The problem is with you, not with the casting.

If you DON'T have an issue with a black Eponine, then you need to realize you have been brainwashed and bullied into accepting nonsensical casting in order not to appear racist, even though casting according to the race of the characters actually has NOTHING to do with racism.

[quote]I do not live in an exclusively white world and it is always distracting when I see a production in which everyone one is white. It takes me out of the play, whether it is Les Miz, Falsettos, etc. I find myself asking why everyone is white instead of being able to simply accept the story.

That's a nonsensical argument, because in those two examples you gave, all of the characters would absolutely be white. (All of the main characters anyway.) Does an all black cast in a production of A RAISIN IN THE SUN or FENCES "distract" you because you don't live in an exclusively black world?

^^Chelsea! Listen to the loon!^^

Solange was white in the NT Follies.

Stella was black, but that is pretty common.

I am still trying to figure out what is different between two white women pulling hair and a white woman and a black woman pulling hair.

Is that supposed to be about a weave? Or what?

Uh, Les Miz is actually a show where you COULD get away with casting most of the roles black or Asian, since France was a colonial power.

And, really....musicals are pretty open to diverse casting anyway, unless a show involves issues OF race (Ragtime would be an example where you kinda have to follow the specifics...) Or, where it would just be perverse (black Nazis in Cabaret or Sound of Music).

I have no problem with color blind casting on stage but it's so fucking glaring in film. Case in point: the current Mary Queen of Scots. African Americans and Asian's as part of the Royal Court? I don't think so.

And, R136, Asians and blacks as villagers in Scotland in the 16th century? I REALLY don’t think so. I’m fine with minirities in films like Beauty and the Beast but not on historical films.

F&F the vile racist at R131.

The Tammy Faye Bakker project sounds dreadful. I heard Cheno talking about it on ruPaul's podcast and she really REALLY seemed so clueless about the Bakkers and how her own self serving Christianity come across to some people.

You would think she would stay far away from 700 Club related projects after having learned that she really does not seem to have a lot of actual awareness when it comes to the hateful evangelicals.

Any musical reclaiming Tammy Faye should have a drag queen playing the role.

[quote]Uh, Les Miz is actually a show where you COULD get away with casting most of the roles black or Asian, since France was a colonial power.

What the hell does that have to do with it? Valjean would not have been a black man because a black man would never have become mayor of a French town at that time. Javert would not have been a black man because a black man would not have been given the opportunity to become a police inspector. And so on and so on.

R138 has no logical argument to counter what I wrote, so he calls me a "vile racist" and stops there. Asshole.

Patti answering questions in her dressing room

Valjean, after almost twenty years in prison, after living a life of poverty, probably wouldn’t have had all his teeth, either.

In the name of historical accuracy, if you have an issue with a black Valjean but are fine having a Valjean with a complete set of shiny, clean, straight teeth, then you’re probably just a racist.

If you can’t suspend disbelief enough to accept a black Cossette, you have no business going to the theater.

You’re too stupid. Stay home and watch television.

Oh shut up, R142 and R143. Tiresome. Blocked.

I have 3 nights of theater in London in late Feb. What should I see?

The Inheritance will have closed. Follies, Company, Jamie (that drag queen musical), very early preview of All About Eve, When We Have Sufficiently Tortured Each Other at the NT ....?

I'd like to mix it up and have seen Follies and Company each twice before.

R145 You have seen Company in London? This new Company is a must. Well done production.

R145: Tickets for When We Have Sufficiently Tortured Each Other have been sold through a ballot. While there will be some day seats etc, it's going to be the toughest ticket for anything in years. It's also a relatively brief run, and I think the consensus is that if it's half good there are plans for another run somewhere, either in London or internationally.

Annie Baker's new play, Shipwreck, begins at the Almeida on February 11th. And Gillian Anderson is always fascinating onstage.

I found Everybody's Talking About Jamie to be particularly underwhelming.

It’s not our fault you’re stupid, r144.

[quote]In the name of historical accuracy, if you have an issue with a black Valjean but are fine having a Valjean with a complete set of shiny, clean, straight teeth, then you’re probably just a racist.

What's that line from ALL ABOUT EVE? "You have a point, my dear. A stupid one, but a point."

[quote]If you can’t suspend disbelief enough to accept a black Cossette, you have no business going to the theater. You’re too stupid. Stay home and watch television.

Would you be able to suspend disbelief if you saw a production of A RAISIN IN THE SUN in which all of the family members were played by black actors except for the mother, who was played by a blonde, white woman? If your answer is "yes," you are lying. If your answer is "no," please shut up and stop judging other people for what they will or won't accept.

R149, how many times to people have to explain this. “Raisin in the Sun” is specifically about race. “Les Miz” is not.

R150, people are stupid.

[quote][R149], how many times to people have to explain this. “Raisin in the Sun” is specifically about race. “Les Miz” is not.

Questionable distinction, but I'll bite: PORGY AND BESS isn't "about race," except maybe just a little bit in those brief scenes with the white characters. Would you be able to suspend disbelief if half of the characters in PORGY AND BESS were white or Asian? If your answer is "yes," you are lying. If your answer is "no," please stop judging other people for what they will or won't accept.

That’s YOUR opinion, R150, not a general consensus.

oh I wish this were its own thread

What is wrong with you? Porgy and Bess is also specifically about race. Similarly, saying that Raisin is not about race may be an opinion, but it is a fringe and poorly informed opinion.

Why does it bother you so much to see people of color as equals on a stage? It’s fine for “them” to be poor beggars or addicts,, but how dare anyone see Marius love a black woman. That’s really the problem here, isn’t it?

No, R155, it isn’t. It’s more to do with some of us wanting to be transported to other worlds when we see a play, film or TV show and taken out of that world when there is color blind casting which cuts away at the realistic aspect of that world.

[quote]What is wrong with you? Porgy and Bess is also specifically about race. Similarly, saying that Raisin is not about race may be an opinion, but it is a fringe and poorly informed opinion.

So PORGY AND BESS is about race -- i.e., black people -- but A.R. Gurney's THE COCKTAIL HOUR, Tennessee Williams' CAT ON A HOT TIN ROOF, Arthur Miller's A VIEW FROM THE BRIDGE, Jez Butterworth's THE FERRYMAN, and 10,000 other plays are not about race -- i.e., white people. Gotcha.

[quote]How dare anyone see Marius love a black woman. That’s really the problem here, isn’t it?

That's not it at all, but obviously don't have the intellectual capacity to understand.

To try to move this thread away from "color blind casting" arguments with people who aren't equipped for the discussion: How about that press release for the FALSETTOS tour, describing actors like Nick Adams, Max Von Essen, Nick Blaemire, and Eden Espinosa as "Broadway superstars" without a hint of irony? Only makes those talented people look bad. If I were one of them, I'd be embarrassed and furious.

Joe Papp's Two Gentlemen of Verona had an entirely colorblind cast with all the leads people of color and nobody complained about it.

His Pirates of Penzance was entirely white and nobody complained about that either.

He felt no pressure to cast except as he saw fit. Why should producers be forced by sjws to cast as THEY see fit?

Tony Azito, a man of color, was one of the leads in Papp's Penzance.

And he was the best thing in it, besides Rex Smith's tights.

In the LA Company, it was Barry Bostwick's tights that got all the attention. Or rather, what was inside them.

In the movie of PIRATES with Rex Smith, there are a few places where the bulge in his very tight tights is, ummm, jaw dropping.

And his ass was jaw-dropping all throughout.

Rex Smith's favorite Halloween costume consists of throwing his dick over his shoulder and impersonating a gas pump.

Here are the bulge and ass. And the sisters, who are all white, except Mabel, who is part Mexican.

[quote]And he was the best thing in it, besides Rex Smith's tights.

Well, pardon us all to hell.

What really bothers me about Les Mis is all the power ballads. They didn't have power ballads in 18th century France. Also, the men go around singing choruses in public. That didn't happen either. It takes me right out of the show every time.

[quote]What really bothers me about Les Mis is all the power ballads. They didn't have power ballads in 18th century France.

"Les Miserables" takes place in 19th-century France, not during the French Revolution, you nitwit.

Speaking of nitwits, who's the nitwit who started another theater thread No. 339 as a tribute to Carol Channing, and still didn't mention Carol in the stupid title.

I’m tired of the ageism on Broadway. If a 60 year old man is qualified to play Romeo, then he should be allowed to. Anyone with any sense can see he’s just playing a role. Anyone who disagrees is prejudiced against older people.

The four older leads in THE PROM could be cut and pasted into a revival of FOLLIES.

[quote]I’m tired of the ageism on Broadway. If a 60 year old man is qualified to play Romeo, then he should be allowed to. Anyone with any sense can see he’s just playing a role. Anyone who disagrees is prejudiced against older people.

The flaw in your thinking is that very few people in that time period lived to be 60. There was always some plague, famine or war knocking on their door. Additionally, they had hot tempers back then and acted on their impulses immediately. Look how many people actually died in R&J.

....

[quote]Harvey Fierstein should be allowed to play Annie.

Yes he should be “allowed”. You can see it or not as you please.

I for one would play good money to see Harvey play Annie in an otherwise serious production. It would be hysterical.

[quote]I for one would play good money to see Harvey play Annie in an otherwise serious production. It would be hysterical.

ANNIE is not written for a camp interpretation, you cretin. That was apparently the original conception, when they were thinking about doing the show with Bernadette Peters as Annie, but they realized that approach would never work for an entire show, so they went the more straightforward route. And I think the creators know better about all that than you do.

I'm sure it's been done, but can white people play the leads in The Wiz? I always wondered if that would be controversial or not. It never seemed like a show about race to me, so maybe it could work?

Hairspray, on the other hand, HAS to have certain roles played by certain races or the show falls apart. I once saw a high school do it and they had, like, 3 black kids on stage. Didn't work. I wish people knew how to pick shows better for the kind of talent that they will be using. If your community/regional theatre only tends to have middle aged white women audition, do Steel Magnolias or Dixie Swim Club. Don't do Dreamgirls.

Worst Theatre Thread Ever.

Schools do The Wiz with multi-racial casts all the time.

Interesting how people here obsessed by the race of cabarets but don’t care about the height, weight, and looks of them beyond race.

If an Asian kid can’t be the child of a black mother and a white father, why can a white kid who looks like neither be? But most accept that I’ve an Asian kid.

We live in a multicultural society and I love to see that reflected on stage. While I may have a mental issue with races not “fitting,” within seconds, it goes away and I accept the relationships.

Disney does this all the time in its TV shows (kids and parents of different races). Opera does it of course.

We all know that what we’re watching isn’t a documentary. Stop pretending that people singing and dancing are normal but interracial actors aren’t.

Put your mind to it and you’ll accept it

Here ya’ go!

[quote]Harvey Fierstein should be allowed to play Annie.

The weird thing is that there have been a few male Miss Hannigans in the UK and on the continent. It is a shame we aren't as flexible in the USA. (And, yes, I know about the Ponto Dane tradition in the UK.)

"Panto Dame" ugh, sorry.

I have to agree. At 184, this really is the worst thread ever.

Racists are extra fucking tedious.

The Witch in Humperdinck's Hansel and Gretel is written for a mezzo but frequently these days she's played by a tenor in witch drag.

And then there are the "trouser roles," male characters written to be sung by women costumed as men. The tradition has pretty much died in new works but a number of classic operas have them, like Le Nozze de Figaro and Der Rosenkavalier, so the performing tradition survives.

Not to mention the roles originally written for castrati....

What were we talking about?

r184 Just because people think your view if fucking stupid does not make them racist. use language with more care to say what you mean.

You mean those who do not agree with you are yucky bunny bum bum head icky bums

Yes Ronstadt was part Mexican and looked like a pretty British 19th century lass. At least if she didn't open her mouth. Azito was like an eccentric dancer from decades before Like Buddy Ebson or Ray Bolger. What was his ethnic background? It would have been hard to tell.

Except for a pirate or two that was a very white show and coming from Papp who did more than anyone for a racially diverse theater it was a clear intention.

But in that era a producer or director could do what they like. Which is as it should be like the producers who cast Patinkin in The Great Comet attempted and everybody who had anything to do with that show was professionally disemboweled for it.

When does Call Me Madam open?

Anybody who doesn't agree exactly with R184 is a bigot. Can you imagine how smug, self righteous and intolerant he or she is?

r189 He, this is still one of the few threads on DL not infected with the messy Frau

A male Ms. Hannigan would make sense and might add to the monstrous quality of the character. I could see that being fun. Didn't Danny LaRue do Dolly in London, too? It looks like Mame has been done with men, too. I wasn't expecting much, but this was actually rather fun (but Jesus, that book needs help!)

In 1960, the Tony for Best Featured Actress in a Musical went to "Laurie Peters and The Children" in TSOM, so the guys playing Kurt and Friedrich are the only males ever to have won that award.

It seems only inevitable that a man will play Rose in Gypsy at some point, right? Truthfully, I think Nathan Lane would be brilliant.

Years ago when Encores did Li'l Abner, Lea DeLaria played Marryin' Sam in drag and she was great.

Who has the inevitable Rex Smith dick pics?

[quote]Lea DeLaria played Marryin' Sam in drag and she was great.

To each his own, but I thought she was atrocious.

Brian Bedford played Lady Bracknell in the last Broadway revival of The Importance of Being Earnest and got a Tony nom for Best Leading Actor.

R140 I dunno about racist but at the very least you're pretty stupid to have a hissy fit over Les Miz. As for "so on and so on" regarding minority casting in the show, I'm still not sure why a black or Asian actor COULDN'T play a Thenardier or Eponine. But, since you say it's IMPOSSIBLE we'll just have to trust you're all knowing.

Jayne Houdyshell played Coraline (a little girl) some years and was supposed to be fantastic (in multiple senses of that word). I realize it was a surreal, non-realistic stage adaptation, but such casting can lead to interesting results.

We're always aware we're in the theatre, it seems to me, and only a fraction of theatre has ever aspired to be realistic in the sense we are using. I get that the plays of the last century and a half have aspired to realism more than in any other time period, but keep in mind Medea, Ophelia, and Cleopatra were all played by men or adolescent males.

Isn't Houdyshell playing the Earl of Gloucester in the upcoming Glenda Jackson Lear?

I think a lot of these people who get freaked by dark skinned people on stage are not actually theatergoers. They seem to be unaware that there are a lot of theatrical conventions that fly in the face of realism, which they would know if they attended theater.

Smell YOU, R201.

r201 No, we want actual characters, plays and musicals being written about POC actual lives and experiences, not shoe horning them into white roles and plays to satisfy some guilt but actually makes it worse as instead of telling their stories they can be happy they have black representation in these pieces, that have exactly zero to do or say about their lives

Fair enough, R203, but just out of curiosity, are you just as put off whenever you've seen white actors playing people of color, which has happened throughout Hollywood history? Or do you watch those films and not think twice about it because white people in those roles seems perfectly fine to you?

r204 Well, we are talking about theater not cinema, but those films are awful, but a perfect illustration of the stupidity and racism of the film industry

[quote]Years ago when Encores did Li'l Abner, Lea DeLaria played Marryin' Sam in drag and she was great.

I thought she was horrendous, the worst thing in a pretty bad production.

[quote]I dunno about racist but at the very least you're pretty stupid to have a hissy fit over Les Miz.

Why is thoughtless color-blind casting in LES MIZ less ridiculous than thoughtless color-bind casting in any other show?

[quote]I think a lot of these people who get freaked by dark skinned people on stage are not actually theatergoers. They seem to be unaware that there are a lot of theatrical conventions that fly in the face of realism, which they would know if they attended theater.

I've probably seen a thousand more shows in my lifetime than you have. And, to reiterate the point that's made about the Bible in THE PROM, you can't cherry-pick certain theatrical conventions to accept and others not to. So you can't say "It's fine to have a black actor as Tevye in FIDDLER ON THE ROOF but it's not fine to have an 80-year-old playing his daughter Hodel." And you certainly can't say "It's fine to have a black actress as Maggie in CAT ON A HOT TIN ROOF but it's not fine to have a white actress as the mother in A RAISIN IN THE SUN." I mean, you CAN say either of both of those things, but if you do, it makes you look like a stupid hypocrite.

R205, I know we are talking about theater and not cinema, but I feel the point is that if one can suspend disbelief long enough to enjoy those films, then one should be able to do the same to enjoy a play or musical. It's the same thing in my view, that's all.

r205 But as stated I did not enjoy those films, and your analogy is lacking

this is hell

I wouldn’t have a problem with Bobbi in Company being female AND black. With Renee Elise Goldsberry as Bobbi.

Those of you saying you want POC to have more theater written to speak to their experience instead of seeing them cast in traditionally white plays:

Have you checked out off-Broadway lately? The Public, MTC, Playwrights Horizons, the Vineyard, Roundabout Underground and even LCT3 are all consistently producing many great new plays and musicals now that are all about POC and acted and staffed by POC.

But I'm betting most of you wouldn't be interested in seeing them.

R211 Not all of us are in NYC, are they good pieces of art? Or more 'Dear White Men' unwatchable horseshit?

[quote]Have you checked out off-Broadway lately? The Public, MTC, Playwrights Horizons, the Vineyard, Roundabout Underground and even LCT3 are all consistently producing many great new plays and musicals now that are all about POC and acted and staffed by POC. But I'm betting most of you wouldn't be interested in seeing them.

Yes, we are aware of those productions, and some of us think they are a far better approach to diversity in the theater that casting people of color in roles in older plays and musicals that make no sense when they're cast that way. That's exactly our point. Did you think we were so ignorant that we don't know such plays are being produced?

The Truth

Why did nobody bother to tell me Penny Fuller is now in Anastasia?

r216 Nor Cody Simpson?

^with a subpoena from law enforcement 217 will be put away for an appropriate time.

>>Annie Baker's new play, Shipwreck, begins at the Almeida on February 11th. And Gillian Anderson is always fascinating onstage.

Um, Shipwreck is by ANNE WASHBURN and already has Broadway in its sites. She will have two London productions simultaneously come March.

I don't generally have a problem with color blind casting, but it would seem strange for Jason to be Asian. I guess he could be adopted and I grew up with a few adopted Asian Jewish kids, but I don't know, it would really underscore for me the fact that perhaps Jason and Trina never were intimate and maybe she should have known. Not sure. I feel as though you can't really voice opinions like that without being called a racist and I wonder if that's why some of the people in the room don't speak up.

To the comments about a black role being played by a white person... there would be an incredible shitstorm. Remember the fuss that was made when a huge Broadway ticket seller (Patinkin) attempted to replace a person of color in a role that had been played by mostly Caucasians. It closed the show and the person of color hasn't worked on Broadway since.

[quote] Matthew Broderick will make his West End debut opposite Elizabeth McGovern in Kenneth Lonergan’s The Starry Passenger, at the Wyndhams starting in May.

Seriously? This was one of the worst pieces of shit I ever saw.

[quote]With Renee Elise Goldsberry as Bobbi.

Only if you change her big birthday to 50 instead of 35.

[quote]I don't generally have a problem with color blind casting, but it would seem strange for Jason to be Asian. I guess he could be adopted and I grew up with a few adopted Asian Jewish kids, but I don't know, it would really underscore for me the fact that perhaps Jason and Trina never were intimate and maybe she should have known.

Plus there is the whole scene/song about Jason not being able to play baseball well because he's Jewish. PLUS there's the whole opening sequence, "Four Jews in a Room Bitching," sung by the four male characters in the show, including Jason. In both cases, the characters are not just talking about following the religion of Judaism, which Jason could do even if he were Asian. They are talking about being culturally and ethnically Jewish. So to cast an Asian actor as Jason makes no fucking sense.

Just had a look at my Company program and Rosalie Craig’s understudy is Jennifer Saayeng. She also plays Jenny. And she’s black.

Pippa Soo/bitch, Renee Elise Goldsberry could easily read as 35 onstage. I’d really like to see her as Bobbie. She’d be great.

r220 Well, the person of colour was not prepared when they started rehearsal, so not surprised he has not been back on Broadway, he is stinking up Station 19

Is there any law against Asians being Jewish?

[quote]when a huge Broadway ticket seller (Patinkin) attempted to replace a person of color in a role that had been played by mostly Caucasians.

The weird thing about that is that Patinkin was the choice to save the show. It needed a big star to save it, not a Broadway has been.

Bajour!

I know we're not even up to 230 posts yet, but I was hoping to bring this tedious thread to an end.

I'll second that, R229.

Bajour! Bajour!

RIP Thread #339

We're not even halfway through, let's turn it around!

I agree. This thread is toxic. Someone (not I) has started an alternate thread that appropriately honors Carol Channing. We should Dump this hell hole and move over there.

Showtune queens are beyond tiresome.

r233 Well, what the fuck are you doing on this thread then, ya drop kick

So you cannot pick and choose theatrical conventions?

Every production does this. Falsettos has decided that you can have characters sing and dance and move scenery and character can be played by actors of a different ethnicity.

Other productions choose other conventions.

r235 Common sense and casting too match what is written in the text is not convention....but you know that

Common sense indicates that the actor and the role are not identical. You can choose what signifiers you are goingto read in what way.

Many of us have moved beyond the convention that white actors can play any ethnicity but minority actors cannot.

r237 So mark is an Ethiopian jew in the soon to be televised 'Rent'.

Many of us have moved beyond the convention than any actor can play any role no matter how unsuitable.

Many of us have moved beyond this tiresome discussion.

Clearly you haven't R240 because you as they say are still here.

R240 Well, actually people who think CCC or CBC are fine to keep debating, but the fucking loons who support it will hear nothing to disspell their stupid obsession

[quote]Well, the person of colour was not prepared when they started rehearsal, so not surprised he has not been back on Broadway, he is stinking up Station 19

I'm surprised anyone hired him after the GREAT COMET debacle, but I guess those TV people didn't hear about Poison Oak.

[quote]So you cannot pick and choose theatrical conventions?

Writers and directors can pick and choose theatrical conventions, but an audience member can't say "I have no problem accepting a black actor in a white role but I refuse to accept a white actor in a black role," because if they say that, it no longer really has anything to do with theatrical conventions.

[quote]Many of us have moved beyond the convention that white actors can play any ethnicity but minority actors cannot.

I'm sorry, but what the hell are you talking about? It's true that white actors used to be hired to play Latinos, Asians, etc., even in film, but that has rightly been considered unacceptable for a very long time. And today, the "convention" many people accept is that actors of color, especially black actors, can play any role, including white roles, but white actors cannot play people of color, especially not black characters.

THREAD CLOSED. OUR LONG NIGHTMARE IS OVER.

gavel down

ahh the colour blind casting kids have run out of ridiculous things to defend the indefensible

I think an all black Book of Mormon would be fun. With white actors as the Africans.

When Betty Buckley plays Effie then we can close this book... TBH I'd love to hear her "I Am Changing"! Not even kidding.

Most of the racist comments here are Matt the Loon's. It's his m.o. Clobber anyone who doesn't share his beliefs, beat them into submission. His pet hate used to be Mary Poppins, Julie was shit, anyone who didn't acknowledge Bedknobs and Broomsticks as the greatest picture ever didn't deserve to live (seriously). Now it's the incompetence of anyone not white, the hatefulness of anyone who doesn't fully support/endorse Israel/Netanyahu, and the absolute absurdity of people of color playing anything other than their own color.

He's a vile little fucker.

r249 No, it is not

Going to try to change directions here...

Finally saw the new Mary Poppins.

Am I alone, or was LMM vastly outdone by everyone else on screen? And I include THE CHILDREN in this summation.

Maybe he's just not meant for film. The cast is exceptional, so I knew he'd be overshadowed by Blunt, Streep, Whishaw, etc.

But as the film went on and on, it just became more and more noticeable how much he was out of his depth. His voice, his expressions, his DANCING. (He tripped the light fantastic, all right.) It all seemed so forced, and often so awkward. Didn't buy him for a millisecond.

I started imagining James Corden in his role, and the film became remarkably better.

The one and only moment where he seemed to excel was in the big music hall number where he got a big moment to rap. He was great in that, but it does show his severe limitations when he's in a work in which he didn't create the part specifically for himself. And even then it's better to see his understudy.

Did anyone else feel the same way?

I thought his accent was fine, his dancing was fine and his singing was fine. He was just...bland. And he had zero chemistry with Emily Blunt and Emily Mortimer.

R252: I thought his accent was fine too. And you are right about the total lack of chemistry with the two ladies.

(For the record, I should add that I actually like him most of the time. Somewhat startled by this performance.)

I hope you people understand that you are not "changing directions" by bringing up LMM in Mary Poppins. Not for long.

Well, R254, in MPR Miss Lake (the very posh neighbor with the dog) is played by the Ango-Pakistani actress Sudha Bhuchar. I thought she was lovely. And her wardrobe was faboo.

I really liked LMM in Mary Poppins. He was much better than I had expected. I thought he did a real classic song-and-dance man turn. Liked him and his singing.

Oops, sorry, her name was Miss Lark.

And Colin Firth’s character’s receptionist was played by the actress who plays/played Hermione in London and on Broadway, Noma somebody. I remember there was a fair bit of controversy when she was cast. And one of the “attack dog” lawyers for Firth’s character is black. He plays an ultimately sympathetic character, though.

r95, I never said Fifi was black, but said Solange had been played by black actresses in other productions, notably, as r120 points out, Jane White in the Roundabout revival. And yes, if you had bothered to read what I wrote, I HAVE heard of Josephine Baker

Is The School of Rock closing today?

R258 You also said that Solange was played by a black performer at the National Theater, which was not the case in the last run or the upcoming one.

Lin Manuel seems to be a great guy. He's written two great musicals. I don't understand why he doesn't realize his limitations. He was atrocious in Mary Poppins.

Because he has a gigantic ego, r261. He seems incapable of going ten minutes without posting on social media--always tooting his own horn.

^Donna Murphy, flat as usual.

Donna has a very nice bosom, r264.

[quote]I thought his accent was fine, his dancing was fine and his singing was fine. He was just...bland. And he had zero chemistry with Emily Blunt and Emily Mortimer.

Whether or not an actor has "chemistry" with another actor is a highly subjective matter. But for what it's worth, I thought LMM had great chemistry with the two Emilys and with the children. And I thought he did a very fine job in the movie overall.

Uhhh, yeah, R266/dipshit, it IS a “highly subjective matter.” Which doesn’t make my opinion (shared by another poster, by the way) to be any less valid. So go fuck yourself.

So, R252, even though you agree that it's a highly subjective matter, I'm not allowed to have a different opinion than you? You are the definition of an asshole.

I'm all for color blind casting. They should do Color Purple with white actresses. I'm sure Cynthia Errivo would be supportive.

Color blind casting means that the producers should cast people of color into roles not originally written for a person of color and the audience should be blind to the discrepancy between characters.

I Put My Hand in is such a better song than Just leave Everything To Me which sticks out like sore thumb and has bad lyrics. Fortunately it is over with as the film start so you don't have to spend the movie dreading it.

But that staging of Hand is very bad. Very amateurish. A last minute rush job. If I saw that I would have been this is going to be a very long evening.

Ideally, color-blind casting means that the person best qualified to perform the role is cast, regardless of color. A little different from r271's description.

I saw Norm Lewis as Sweeney Todd last year and he was excellent. But perhaps the anti-color blind casting posters here would disagree (if they saw him).

This number could NOT be performed with ANY other color.

What does Cyd Charisse doing a Mitzi Gaynor imitation have to do with anything?

r272 Donna had an iron-clad contract that ruled out fisting.

Whenever they excerpt Think Pink they cut out the final joke which ends the number and is pretty funny.

Today the color is purple.

Many Patinkin would have sold more tickets in Great Comet than Oak (who?). Shondra Rhimes gave Oak a job on one of her tv shows after that debacle so don't worry about him. Save your sympathy for all those Comet people who were put out of work and, at the very least, could have collected a few extra months salary.

The only thing that could have made Mary Floppins suck more would have been that overpraised fatass James Corden in overpraised LMM’s role.

Absolutely......nothing, r277!

R273, you key word was "ideally." Unfortunately too often producers and directors think that color-blind casting is so" edgy" and " contemporary" that they only look at color, rather than talent." Wouldn't it be great to have a black Eliza Doolittle? Everyone would think we're so relevant and inclusive."

Fuck off, r277. Cyd Charisse is fabulous...wonderful....

This article is a perfect example of the " modern" way of casting. How liberal we are. See? Come see us, because we include everybody.

Frankie Grande IS a man for all "Seasons."

That Jewish lady in the Grand Hotel commercial always makes me laugh.

August Wilson on colorblind casting:

To mount an all-black production of a Death of a Salesman or any other play conceived for white actors as an investigation of the human condition through the specifics of white culture is to deny us our own humanity, our own history, and the need to make our own investigations from the cultural ground on which we stand as black Americans. It is an assault on our presence, and our difficult but honorable history in America; and it is an insult to our intelligence, our playwrights, and our many and varied contributions to the society and the world at large.

The idea of colorblind casting is the same idea of assimilation that black Americans have been rejecting for the past 380 years. For the record, we reject it again. We reject any attempt to blot us out, to reinvent our history and ignore our presence or to maim our spiritual product. We must not continue to meet on this path. We will not deny our history, and we will not allow it to be made to be of little consequence, to be ignored or misinterpreted.

What about that kid in the commercial who said something like “I loved this show and I’ve seen many a Broadway show”?

Let’s stick to the topic in the thread title: shit. Has there ever been a play with live shitting onstage? I don’t mean simulated, I mean actual defecating.

BRING BACK BIRDIE had simulated shitting, right?

I think K2 did.

Here's a better way to get the thread back on track. One word : Follies.

r292 That's been attempted. Someone brought up Stella Fucking Deems.

R292 OK, has anyone booked to see the new old 'Follies' without the squinty eyed mad cunt Imelda in it? Cause she was shit

Yes, R294 - seeing it in March. Really looking forward, as it’s been a couple of years since I last saw Joanna Riding in anything, and she’s one of my favourite stage actresses.

I expect an announcement within the next few weeks that The Inheritance will open on Broadway a day or so before the Tony deadline.

Cynthia Erivo and Javier Nunez should defitiniely rewrite all broadway musicals to reflect today’s sensibilities

I wonder what Dinah's doing these days.

r258, I believe you asked if Solange was black in the original production of Follies and I answered you by saying (among other other things): Fifi d'Orsay was not black. So i don't know what your problemm is.

And sorry, but I don't remember you saying anything about Josephine Baker in your original post.

Bump-because that other thread is illegitimate.

As I've already posted several times in these theatre threads, The Inheritance will NOT open on Broadway until next season because Miss Sonia Friedman, its producer, is also the producer of The Ferryman and does not want to add any competition to The Ferryman winning this season's Tony for Best Play.

R299 No honey, that was me,

Have the Tonys ever been cancelled because the year was such total shite?

I initially thought that To Kill a Mockingbird would offer strong competition against Ferryman's likely Best Play Tony but it doesn't seem like there's much exciting vibe for Mockingbird in that regard any more.

Or is it because Mockingbird's tickets are so astronomically overpriced that normal schlubs are not seeing it (yet)?

And it doesn't seem like Jeff Daniels will be stealing that Tony away from Bryan Cranston. Even Celia K-B will be against the inevitably strong competition of Ruth Wilson in Lear and Joan Allen in Waverly Gallery.

Will Network be considered a new play at the Tonys?

R304 I thin the question is 'Will 'Network' be considered good enough to get a nomination

Will 'Boys in the Band' be nominated for much?

Cranston beats Daniels for the Tony hands down. Twas always thus.

Oops. you're right, r302.

My response was meant for r94.

I bet Danny Kaye was good at the homosex.

Quite good.

Danny Kaye was a travesty in Two by Two. As if he were doing his show at the London Palladium. Yet he was the only thing in it worth seeing. The musical was a piece of crap. He gave a short curtain speech thanking the audience's ovation on behalf of the entire cast. Ha! He treated them as nothing more than props in his one man show. I wouldn't be surprised if he forced Kahn out because she was stealing focus from him.

R311, “I Do Not Know A Day I Did Not Love You” is a pretty song but very derivative of Rodgers.

Agreed. I'm surprised Kaye didn't steal it.

Going back to the Falsettos example:

We must believe that Jason is Marvin's biological son. Otherwise, the song "My Father's A Homo" makes no sense. He's worried that he might have the same problems as his father via chromosomes.

"My father's a homo, my mother's not thrilled at all, father homo, what about chromosomes? Do they carry?"

Trina must also be Jewish because she sings in "Holding To The Ground":

"I was sure growing up I would live the life my mother assumed I'd live, very Jewish, very middle class and very straight."

One of the themes in Falsettos is: what makes a family? I'm sure some hotshot director would try to infer that Trina is not Jason's biological mother. But there is nothing that indicates he is adopted.

Unfortunately, we're forced into pretending that an Asian kid is the product of two Jewish parents. And it's not racist to ask that in a "message" musical like Falsettos that family members resemble each other.

[bold]FOLLIES ! ! ! [/bold]

All [italic]this[/italic] could have been yours for just $1,375 at the Bonham's TCM PRESENTS ... THERE'S NO PLACE LIKE HOLLYWOOD auction in 2014.

[quote]A Hilary Knight portrait of Ann Miller in Stephen Sondheim's Follies. Watercolor, pencil and ink on illustration board, matted. Unused illustration for Vanity Fair, 1998. Titled and signed in ink "Hilary Knight." Overall: 21 x 16 in.; Image size: 16 x 9 1/2 in.

[quote]Intended for a story on MGM star Ann Miller's triumphant comeback to the stage in the New Jersey revival of Stephen Sondheim's Follies in 1998. "Tap dancing star Ann Miller was 75 at the time," Mr. Knight writes. "I drew her dazzling turn, singing 'I'm Still Here.'"

That Two by Two song "I Do Not Know a Day I Did Not Love You" was not only derivative of Rodgers, r312, it was written by Rodgers.

“I Do Not Know A Day I Did Not Love You” is a pretty song but very derivative of Rodgers."

Which makes no sense at all. Does it have his signature musical thumbprints? Of course--that's his style. That said, it stands on its own as an individual tune, with one of the loveliest 'B' sections he ever wrote and probably the last great song he penned.

I'm not too familiar with Riding other than as the voice of Cinderella's mother in the Into the Woods movie, so I must ask - will they be raising the keys back up for her? Sally's songs sound sorta anemic without those higher keys.

And please, dear God, tell me they'll be re-staging Loveland. It was awful. As much as I thought the production the production, as a whole, was probably the best since the original, that stood out like a sore thumb. Fix Loveland and get someone better as Sally and it might really be definitive.

I just heard the cast recording the other night and hated it. Such strange cuts and everything sounds odd. There's something off about it.

And get the new Phyllis a decnet dress!!!!!!

re: Rodgers' last great song, I lean toward "Away from You," from Rex. I think it has a better lyric than "I Do Not Know a Day..." which is nice melody with a hamfisted lyric.

Daddy didn't write the lyric.

Uhhh, yeah, R317/smartass, I was very much aware of that.

Anyone with half a brain knows that what I meant was the melody was very stock Richard Rodgers. Lazy writing.

R319, the basic sound engineeringi of the album is really bad. It’s like they’re singing in a fishbowl. And some of the subpar American accents only sound accentuated, if you know what I mean, starting with “Hats AHF, here they come those, byoodifull girrrrls...”

[quote]Will 'Boys in the Band' be nominated for much?

"Boys in the Band" was from last season and withdrew itself from Tony nominations.

R325 REALLY? Why? And it did open after the end of the last season, like literally the day after

Boys in the Band opened May 31 2018 so is totally part of THIS current season

And there is no new Phyllis in FOLLIES at the NT -- it's still Janie Dee

Jo Riding by the way can sing like a dream, no worries there

derivative

de-riv-a-tive

adjective

1. (typically of an artist or work of art) imitative of the work of another person, and usually disapproved of for that reason.

noun

2. something that is based on another source .

R327 Agree with the commenter upthread, poor Phyllis better have a new dress, that fucking dreary travesty in the first version was horrid

Oh, fuck off, R328.

At least the highly inadequate NT Follies recording couldn’t mess with the absolute beauty of “One Last Kiss” sung be Josephine Bairstow and Alison Langer.

Janie Dee comes off the worst in the recording. Wow. Even worse than her green schmatta did onstage.

I'm listening to the recording now, and not liking it much. And I'm just at the prologue.

I thought Barstow and Langer were the best part of the production--and One Last Kiss is a song I used to skip past.

Me, too, R331, I used to think it was just an old lady stuck in the past singing an old timey song. But then I saw the production at the NT (I’d previously seen the Broadway revival starring Bernadette Peters) and damn it, in that wonderful production “One Last Kiss” was absolutely stunning and a thing of great beauty.

Chrissy Metz IS Effie!

Barstow was so fragile and lovely.

I'm afraid the original cast recording, flaws and all, will always be my favorite. I'm sure the NT recording is better than I think it is.

Did they put a tap break in "I’m Still Here" for Ann Miller?

Didn’t the original cast recording actually leave off “One Last Kiss”?

For those multitudes out there wondering how Zizi Strallen could go from Young Phyllis at the NT in Mary Poppins later in the year-she won’t. Gemma Sutton, who played Dainty June in the Chichester/West End revival of Gypsy, will play Young Phyllis. I saw her last month in panto in Hackney in the title role of Aladdin, reconceived as a lesbian Northerner. And she was terrific.

[quote]Didn’t the original cast recording actually leave off “One Last Kiss”?

Yes, but Sondheim insisted that it be recorded and it was subsequently included on MP3 versions.

Now that's....well...not lazy...just meh.

Couldn't NT Follies take the music from the video production, clean it up a bit and release that as the cast recording?

It would sure sound better, R341. I don’t know why they just didn’t do that. It would work better for me as a live recording.

Tony Bennett does a sublime version of “I Do Not Know a Day I Did Not Love You” that is leagues better than the original cast recording. It’s one of my favorites.

^^I love how he does the long last section in one breath.

Both Bennett and Willison are sublime. DIfferent arrangements, different contexts, equally effective.

[quote]"Boys in the Band" was from last season and withdrew itself from Tony nominations.

Thanks for that fascinating bit of information, which contains two completely incorrect statements in the course of one very brief sentence. What was your motivation in doing this?

Thanks for that, R343. I never knew that existed.

The new Follies recording has been posted on Spotify and YouTube and it's really underwhelming. None of the energy of what I saw on stage and on the video broadcast. No electricity and some truly odd cuts. No wonder it took so long to be released. The team was probably scared to release it.

It's the Tyne Daly Gypsy recording all over again - great production, shitty cast recording.

For ROdger's later songs, I'm partial to "Something Isn't There" and "No Song More Pleasing."

Penny Fuller is in Anastasia so I guess I’d bettef go now.

Heard an interview with Mark Rylance a while back. He had lots of nice things to say about the American actors he worked with on Broadway (especially JERUSALEM) What is he like in person? He seemed very shy and articulate but quite obsessed about asserting the notion that Shakespeare did not write all of the plays attributed to him.

Nice guy but eccentric?

I'd love to see Rylance and Kenneth Branagh go one-on-one in a Shakespeare debate. Obviously, Shakespeare didn't write every word of every play, but Rylance's insistence that Shakespeare did not write MOST of his plays seems questionable, at best. I guess we'll never know the real answer, but it would be fascinating to see them throw down.

Does Branagh take the opposite view? There ae some storied English actors on both sides of the debate. Can't see it matters much. I saw Jerusalem and loved it and Rylance. Less so in the last thing that I can't even remember the name of

I love Mark Rylance.

It's very hard for me to comprehend how little is documented about Shakespeare's life and career. Is it mostly becuase playwrights were just not well-respected back then? And yet, just a few years after he died, someone went to the trouble to collect scripts of all his plays.....

In my defense of I DO NOT KNOW A DAY...., r349, I had forgotten about NO SONG MORE PLEASING, also excellent, and easily the best solo in REX (some of the set-pieces also land). From TWO BY TWO, I also love AN OLD MAN and SOMETHING, SOMEWHERE (again, that magisterial bridge!)

R351, I was his stand-in on Bridge of Spies. He was absolutely great. Sweet, warm and friendly. I expected him to be in his own world because he’s such a brilliant actor. He was wonderful. I loved catching him asking Spielberg questions about his other films.

The new Follies recording really is bizarre. I think the strangest decision was cutting Margie from the final chorus of "Buddy's Blues," what point did that serve? "Too Many Mornings," is just plain weird as well. For the most part, I think the song was transposed down a whole step, with Sally's middle section ("how I planned..." through, "and my fears were wrong!") down a perfect fourth. Then they rushed the tempo to squeeze all onto one CD I guess. I could forgive the transposition if Imelda was actually good as Sally, but her acting does not justify the shoddy vocals in the least.

[quote]r348 The new Follies recording has been posted on Spotify and YouTube and it's really underwhelming.

Well, we will just have to do [italic]another production!

Why didn't Carol Channing ever do FOLLIES? Her "Losing My Mind" would have been memorable.

I can just hear it - -

I think it highly unlikely for them to bring in The Inheritance for this season. It's already shaping up to be a pretty strong year for plays with The Ferryman, Network and To Kill A Mockingbird already dominating plus the Hillary/Bill play by Lucas Hnath still to come.

The Inheritance has a huge cast and you know they'll want to scoop up as many noms as they can...The Ferryman is already likely to dominate acting categories for this season.

r361 Oh honey if you read the thread you would know they share the same producer so as she is not a fucking moron The Inheritance is not coming to town this season

[quote]Why didn't Carol Channing ever do FOLLIES? Her "Losing My Mind" would have been memorable.

Carol is in rehearsals now for a tour of FOLLIES that will play various locations around Heaven for the next five years. She's playing Solange as Cecilia Sisson, AND will also be playing Phyllis for four weeks in the summer when Alexis Smith has the month off.

R261, atrociously atrocious! Just an abyss when onscreen, and I LOVED the film, but don’t think I can ever watch it again because of LMM’s paperthin performing.

I wonder which performers have to decide between doing LMM’s In The Heights film or Spielberg’s West Side Story remake.

Another vote for Something Isn't There. Whatever happened to Tricia O'Neil? I loved her voice.

Never listened to “Something Isn’t There.” Will do now.

So sorry. It's Something Doesn't Happen!

And those wonderful Eddie Sauter orchestrations.

A friend of mine used to mock “I Do Not Know A Day I Did Not Love You” by retitling it “And Now Another Song By Richard Rodgers.” There weren’t any loveky ballads in I Remember Mama which rivalled the one in Two by Two, right?

[quote]The new Follies recording really is bizarre. I think the strangest decision was cutting Margie from the final chorus of "Buddy's Blues,"

Can you explain? How is she "cut out" of the final chorus?

After 60 or so years of brilliant unforgettable songwriting, I think we can allow Richard Rodgers a few clunker scores in his elder years.

Would you all agree that No Strings was his last good, if not great score? Or Do I Hear a Waltz?

Loads

WALTZ over NO STRINGS for me.. SOMEONE WOKE UP, MOON IN MY WINDOW, TAKE THE MOMENT and the title tune are in their turn brilliant, wistful, haunting and memorable. Even the comedy numbers like THIS WEEK AMERICANS and WHAT DO WE DO? WE FLY are fun. I even like the cut EVERYBODY LOVES LEONA.

From STRINGS I like THE SWEETEST SOUNDS, LOADS OF LOVE, THE MAN WHO HAS EVERYTHING and especially LOOK NO FURTHER. LA LA LA has a swinging insouciance. But some of the other lyrics ("Deauville is dullsville")…

I REMEMBER MAMA's ballads are pretty much all second-tier stuff, IMO.

La....La....

Was the French actress singing La La La supposed to be so horribly off-key? Was it a character choice?

Mais oui, r377!

R361-"Ferryman" won't win a damned thing in the acting categories because most of the original cast will be gone by April, and it's pretty much an ensemble piece. And the other plays will still have their original casts intact.

[quote]r363 Carol is in rehearsals now for a tour of FOLLIES that will play various locations around Heaven for the next five years. She's playing Solange as Cecilia Sisson, AND will also be playing Phyllis for four weeks in the summer when Alexis Smith has the month off.

This is as it should be. Carol can be induced to take that smaller role, if she is allowed to cover all the other parts in case anyone gets out of hand on the Milky Way Tour, and is called into the gods' office.

She an Alexis Smith were born the same year, so hopefully they'll mesh without any trouble.

R371, normally Buddy's Blues ends with Buddy, Margie, and "Sally," singing the final chorus in a trio. For some reason, it's just Buddy and "Sally," on this recording. It wasn't like that on the video broadcast, so I have no clue why they'd do that.

I always hoped that Carol would do Broadway Baby in one of the one night concerts. She would have been perfect.

The bitch playing Margie must have been outside taking her fag break so they had to quickly finish the track without her.

Yes, of course--that must be the explanation.

The score of Waltz seems to get worse as the show goes on. I really think those three queens Dexter, Laurents, and Sondheim really shook him. Rodgers(getting old and uncertain) was really right on the changes he wanted to make and Laurents and Sondheim fought him every step of the way.

Look at what's good about the show . His score until he lost his confidence and those bitches went full speed ahead and wrecked it. Dexter locking himself in his hotel room with his coke and rent boys and Laurents at his considerable bitchiest with Sondheim joining in and the two of them turning into barking dogs. Who wouldn't become a homophobe dealing with those three? At Encores the musical was an unpleasant ordeal. Even Sondheim saying it couldn't be turned into a musical because it was a musical about a woman who couldn't sing was one of his silliest comments in a lifetime full of them

I've read all their three views on the show and Rodger's is the only one that seems to make sense which is astonishing in itself because there are enough anecdotes to show he was not a nice man.

DL faves Patti Murin and Andrew Rannells saw Our Miss Brooks in THE PROM last night. Imagine the conversation.

So Andy and Patti are dating now? I heard her anxiety keeps things cool in the boudoir

Having classic show with color blind casting just reinforces how our lives have so much in common.

The human experience is universal

I’m going to see Ferryman at the end of March. Sadly, I just learned that most of the original cast would be gone by them.

I hate replacement casts. They almost always suck in comparison to the original

All this hooting and hollering for Cranston in Network is fine but I no longer fall for the hype.

Every season the producers have to sell a show by overhyping actors. I am sick of movies made into plays so Network and To Kill a Mockingbird have no appeal to me as plays. I’m glad Cranston is getting recognized. I have no desire to see it

[quote]Chrissy Metz IS Effie!

Chrissy Metz IS the Cadillac Car!

[quote]Intended for a story on MGM star Ann Miller's triumphant comeback to the stage in the New Jersey revival of Stephen Sondheim's Follies in 1998.

"Triumphant" and "New Jersey" should rarely, if ever, be in the same sentence.

Mb Ferryman could compete in featured but not in lead

What is R388 smoking?

r387 presumably Colin Donnell is filming and she’s on the town with Plastic Rannells. Must be a nice thought heading to bed with Mr Donnell - Rannells not so much.

Yes, R388, All human experience is universal, and our lives have so much in common. BTW, can't wait to see the all-Asian cast of Porgy and Bess sitting shiva.

r396 So Mr. Archdale can still be white!

Dear r260 and r299. Here is my first/original post: Please read carefully. I responded to the question as to whether the original Solange was played by a black actress (asked by r93). I did not ask that question. I did not say Fifi D'Orsay was black. I said nothing at all about the National Theater production:

"No, the original Solange was Fifi D'Orsay. Solange, like Stella, has been played by a black actress in more than one revival. The equivalent in real life would have been Josephine Baker's appearance in the Ziegfeld Follies."

I later commented on r120s post about Jane White's performance as Solange.

Please don't attribute statements to me that I never made.

R398 Yes, he apologized earlier love, so cuddles

The La La La girl from NO STRINGS had the great pleasure of being Mrs. Steve McQueen for a time.

r385, you sound every bit as homophobic as Rodgers was rumored to be,

OOPS, sorry! The No Strings gal was married to Sydney Chaplin.

I'm still waiting for the production of 1776 (I almost wrote 1176) that casts Ben Franklin as a transgender Latina.

Wasn't the Encores' 1776 cast non-traditionally?

R403 LMM needs to 'update' 1776 for the kids and give it neat rappy beats and have black people play slavers and child rapist..

Betty Buckley's role in 1776 could be played by a black woman.

It can be played by the mother of a pretentious twat.

Larry Kramer working on a Broadway musical with Dexter, Laurents and Sondheim would have turned homophobic.

[quote]r381 normally Buddy's Blues ends with Buddy, Margie, and "Sally," singing the final chorus in a trio. For some reason, it's just Buddy and "Sally," on this recording ... I have no clue why they'd do that.

LOCK 'EM UP!

[quote]r390 All this hooting and hollering for Cranston in Network is fine but I no longer fall for the hype ... I’m glad Cranston is getting recognized. I have no desire to see it.

I agree. The movie NETWORK is very well acted, but a bit of a slog. A stage version sounds grim and unappealing.

I DID just see Cranston playing Larry David's therapist on CURB YOUR ENTHUSIASM. He's very funny and versatile.

Brian Cranston is one of those actors like William H Macy that isn’t a “star” but the industry LOVES and rewards ad nauseam no matter the project.

There are several actors in this group. The role could be shit in a movie seen by 11 people but a SAG nomination always happens.

Sadly this translates to broadway as well.

I wish Rylance would come back to the stage in a project worthy of him. Jerusalem was great, and Boeing, Boeing was a revelation of style, direction, and acting for everyone involved. What a marvelous show. But Rylance's last trip to Broadway was to star in a play his wife wrote (as a favor?) and it was rather terrible. The script was so repetitive and unappealing and the staging was awful with that stupid on-stage seating box that added nothing. It might be the most disappointing play I've ever seen on Broadway, and I saw the Julianna Margulies Festen.

I think Ferryman will be hard up to to get acting Tony's. I imagine it has best play and best director firmly in the bag. Maybe Fionula Flannagan could sneak in a Featured Actress, but its such an ensemble piece beyond the two leads that I don't think there's a big "moment" for any supporting character to really stand out beyond just being generally terrific part of a whole. Best Actor will be a race between Daniels and Cranston with Cranston winning regardless of performance quality. Paddy will be nominated, but I doubt he'll really even be in the conversation. Laura Donnelly really is giving a masterful performance, but I think they've already engraved the Tony with Glenda Jackson's name on it, and who knows, she might even deserve it.

Glenda's competition will be Elaine May and I think May would get it except her show will have closed months earlier.

I saw The Ferryman in London with the original cast and quite liked it but I don't think I could identify a single actor in it today in a line-up with a gun to my head.

R403, she was not Latina but....the guy who played Martha Jefferson may have been.

[quote]How about that press release for the FALSETTOS tour, describing actors like Nick Adams, Max Von Essen, Nick Blaemire, and Eden Espinosa as "Broadway superstars" without a hint of irony? Only makes those talented people look bad. If I were one of them, I'd be embarrassed and furious.

R157 why should they be embarrassed/furious?

R181 I'm unable to read the linked article. What is the reason given for specifically seeking a black actress to play Eva Peron, a historical white woman?

I loved Boeing Boeing. I saw it 3 times. Who thought a naughty 60s sex comedy could ever play again?

Richard lll one of my favorite Shakespearian plays not so much.

[quote]r416 What is the reason given for specifically seeking a black actress to play Eva Peron, a historical white woman?

Why shouldn't they? I hardly think it will cause generations of people to now think the real Evita Peron was black.

Do your own whitey version, if that's what you demand.

I've done Boeing Boeing and the script itself is one of the worst things you'll ever read. The situation is hysterical, but it's up to the actors to make it work. If you get a great cast together, it's just about unsinkable. I can't think of another script that lousy that, with the right cast, can be heaven.

Well they sure managed it.

Now how about Any Wednesday which seems pretty dire and was one of the biggest hits of the 60s.

r413 Elaine will be nominated, but I don't think she'll be serious competition. While her performance has gotten sparkling reviews, the response to the show overall has been much more muted. While I didn't see the Eileen Heckhart production, I've been told that she's also not quite as good as Eileen was and that could really hurt her chances with the Tony. I think Glenda's only competition is Laurie Metcalf, and only if Hillary is a runaway sensation. It would be a really nice mirror to last year's Tony.

r419 It's sort of the opposite of Noises Off, a script that is so brilliant but so rarely put to good use. Boeing Boeing isn't the worst of that genre of farce, though. Ray Cooney has had some real clunkers, but none are even half as bad as Tom, Dick, and Harry, a show that I don't understand how it even gets produced unless Ray Cooney is paying people to produce it.

[quote]I can't think of another script that lousy that, with the right cast, can be heaven.

Everybody Loves Opal

Some of the longest running hits of the 1960s are absolutely unproduceable today:

Mary, Mary

Never Too Late

Any Wednesday

A Thousand Clowns

There's a Girl in My Soup

Cactus Flower

And any number of Neil Simon hits

R418 that doesn't answer my question, which was why are they going out of their way to cast a black actress as Eva Peron? On top of that, they're being so public about it. (The headline in the article at R181 says that they're specifically searching for a black actress for the role. )

They used to say the same thing about Boeing, Boeing, R423.

I think Tom Glynn-Carney had a shot at Featured Actor for Ferryman. He won the Evening Standard Award for his role as the hot headed cousin.

HAS a shot, I mean.

What about Forty Carats?

Cactus Flower as a movie is entertaining but I doubt you could do it on the stage.

Tom Glynn Carney won the ES Newcomer award ..... that entity doesn't give supporting prizes, alas (if they did, Patti LuPone or Jonathan Bailey would have won for COMPANY in a walk)

What are the songs from Love Never Dies/Paint Never Dries I should check out again?

So the nominees will be

Elaine May

Glenda Jackson

Laurie Metcalf

Who is 4th and 5th?

I saw a community theatre production of Neil Simon's The Dinner Party recently and it's pretty awful. I don't think it was just the actors, either. That one really is a doozy. It's almost always either too light or too dark and all the characters seem fairly snooty. You really don't root for anyone.

I did catch a production of Barefoot in the Park a few years ago and was charmed by it. Some things haven't aged well and it'd probably work best as a period piece, but it's a fun night at the theater.

r431 Laura. I remember when I first spotted her in 'The Fall' as the first onscreen victim. It was a small part but she was so honest and real I noted her and followed her career since. She has never disappointed

R415, I thought I was pretty clear in my post. The FALSETTOS actors should be and probably are embarrassed and maybe also furious at being described as "Broadway superstars" in the press release because none of them is remotely deserving of that label, so it just makes them look bad. What part of that do you not understand or disagree with?

TILL I HEAR YOU SING ONCE MORE, r430, it's the best one, performed thrillingly by Mr. Karimloo below.

Thanks, R435.

r431 She doesn't have the 'name' of the other 3, but I can't imagine Laura Donnelly won't be nominated. She's stunning in a part that really holds the entire show together. The only even marginally negative review I've seen of the Ferryman basically said the only thing that would make it more perfect if it had been focused more on her perspective and less on Quinn Carney's.

Of the two performances that have already been seen on stage, I prefer Laura's. Elaine May is wonderful and I'm glad I got to see her, but a lot the heavy lifting there is done simply by it being Elaine May on stage, there's an anticipatory connection. Laura doesn't have that luxury and she knocks it out of the park. Plus - Waiverly Gallery is just sort of... there. Good cast, some good performances, but mediocre directing and not really the most insightful of shows.

I suppose Mrs. Warren Beatty could get a nom for All My Chil....er, Sons.

There's also Andrea whatshername from Gary.

Aww, how cute. Ramin drops one tiny tear in the video.

LOVE NEVER DIES has plot problems, but ALW was obviously incredibly inspired to deliver a magnificent score. Surely his best score since WHISTLE and SUNSET... it's a goldmine of melodic richness. The OLC production had lyric problems (and a lot of other issues), but the Australian rewrite and subsequent US tour version remedied most of the questionable aspects. To wit, the filmed Australian production is dazzling and showcases as much theatricality and lavishness as Prince's PHANTOM. I'm glad it exists. The reveal of the carousel is just as thrilling as the chandelier in PHANTOM and "The Beauty Underneath" sequence is as dynamic as the title song from PHANTOM in its presentation. People can hate on the show, but I do think there is more to like than many would prefer to give it credit for possessing. I'm quite surprised ALW hasn't presented it in NYC as of yet, but perhaps with SCHOOL OF ROCK having closed this weekend and no chance of STEPHEN WARD ever arriving on these shores he may be compelled to give it a go.

Ramin can drop anything on me-especially his ass on my face.

R424 Regent’s Park Open Air Theatre is searching for a black actor to play Eva Peron, in what would be an historic first for Andrew Lloyd Webber’s Evita.

A casting breakdown for the lead role, seen by The Stage, says the production is looking for a black performer to play the part.

It states: “Appearance: Black. Other areas, black Caribbean, mixed race, African American”.

The production is directed by Jamie Lloyd, and it is believed the casting would make it the first major professional production to cast a black actor in the role.

Previous actors to have played the part include Elaine Paige, Patti LuPone, Madalena Alberto and Elena Roger, who played the role in the West End in 2006.

The musical will run at the Open Air Theatre from August 2 to September 21.

A spokesman for the show said: “Regent’s Park Open Air Theatre is committed to championing diversity across all of our work. As with all of our productions, we are considering actors from a wide range of backgrounds for all roles in Evita. The process is still underway and, as yet, no roles have been cast.”

Lloyd Webber’s score includes songs such as Don’t Cry for Me Argentina, and Another Suitcase in Another Hall.

In 2017, Paapa Essiedu became the first black actor to play Hamlet at the RSC.

Last week, Broadway actor Brittney Johnson became the first black actor to play Glinda in the musical Wicked.

“I am so humbled to be the first black Glinda and honoured to fulfil the dreams and hopes of so many,” she wrote on Twitter.

She didn’t spell it like “honoured,” did she? Isn’t she an American?

gender and color blind casting is the flavor of the week in theater, which considers itself the cutting edge of culture. The only people who really appreciate it are the ultra-liberal, pseudo-intellectuals who will go to the show and, no matter how it was, will call up their friends or post online with," I saw___________. It was daring and so avant garde. I'm not so sure everyone will understand the subtle nuances of the interpretation, but the director's fresh interpretation added verisimilitude to a usually formulaic dramatic structure."

Trump:The Musical

Norm Lewis is Donald Trump

Lea Salonga is Kellyanne Conway

Donna Murphy is Omarosa!

I guarantee only one of these casting choices would be a problem on twitter

With Telly Leung as Barron!

I have a yen to listen to the German production of Wicked now.

It won't make a mark.

r447 Telly is like 50 years old and plays a 19 year old and nobody seems to be mad about that. So maybe age blind casting isn't a problem.

When someone writes that people think non-traditional casting is " daring and so avant garde" it proves that the only people freaked out are non-theatergoers.

Telly Leung is no older than 30, I think.

These threads are really going to explode once the "reveletory" Oklahoma begins preformances.

I'm seeing a regional production of "1776" this weekend, and it looks like they're going the traditional route. Anyone want to bet that the lone Latino is playing the courier or "A Leather Apron?"

Sorry to disillusion you, r453, Telly Leung is 39.

The fact that the producers of this EVITA would not hesitate to specify that they're looking for a black performer to play the non-black role of Eva Peron demonstrates how dangerously far this nonsense has gone. CAN YOU IMAGINE the outrage if they specified in the audition notice that they were seeking a Caucasian performer for this role, or the role Anna in a production of THE KING AND I, or some other white character? NOT TO MENTION if they specified they were seeking a Caucasian performer to play the lead in CAROLINE, OR CHANGE or some other black role? If a requirement for the role of Evita is "appearance: black," that literally means a white actress would be denied the role because of her race -- even though the role is that of a white woman. All exaggeration aside, this is a horrendously bad situation.

[quote]r385 The score of Waltz seems to get worse as the show goes on. I really think those three queens Dexter, Laurents, and Sondheim really shook him. Rodgers(getting old and uncertain) was really right on the changes he wanted to make and Laurents and Sondheim fought him every step of the way.

I think the movie SUMMERTIME works well because you have Venice to look at, and two gorgeous stars, and at the end you're not really that concerned about how Katharine Hepburn will do. Because ... she's Katharine Hepburn.

I saw the version at Pasadena Playhouse with Alyson Reed and Carol Lawrence, and a lot of the music was much stronger than I expected. ("Moon In My Window" was ravishing.) But without movie magic to give it glow, the story's a REAL DOWNER! And none of the other characters really matter ... they just seem to be there so it's not a two-person play.

[quote][bold]Do I Hear A Waltz?[/bold]

[quote]David Lee fails to overcome the puzzling lack of musical and thematic cohesion in "Do I Hear A Waltz?," but the production still manages to make a strong impact, due in great part to the palpable emotional and sexual tension created by Tony nominee Alyson Reed ("Cabaret") and Tony winner Anthony Crivello ("Kiss of the Spider Woman").

[quote]The 16-song score doesn’t quite complement Laurents’ darkly poignant tale of feisty but lovelorn American tourist Leona Samish’s (Reed) brief romantic interlude on the canals of Venice with Venetian shopkeeper Renato De Rossi (Crivello). In fact, ensemble number “What Do We Do? Fly!” appears to have been tacked for no other reason than to provide a bit of comic relief and offer the minor characters in the show an opportunity to sing....

[quote]etc. - below

^^

R457 - Bravo!

[quote]r420 Now how about Any Wednesday which seems pretty dire and was one of the biggest hits of the 60s.

I thought you wrote ASH WEDNESDAY . . and thought, "OMG, nobody liked THAT!"

[quote]r424 that doesn't answer my question, which was why are they going out of their way to cast a black actress as Eva Peron?

I suggest you call and ask them.

[bold]+44 333 400 3562[/bold]

Your investment in this is unseemly.

{quote]r445 The only people who really appreciate it are the ultra-liberal, pseudo-intellectuals

You don't think the performers appreciate it? Do you think they'd rather plat Addie in THE LITTLE FOXES or Hedda Gabler?

r453 Thinks Carol Channing is still somewhere between forty and death.

I have zero problem with a black Evita, the same way I have no problem with a black Gypsy Rose Lee in Gypsy. Yes, they're based on real people, but the musicals have turned them into fables of sorts.

I DO have a problem with someone putting out an audition notice saying that non-blacks need not apply. I'd be equally appalled by seeing a notice saying only Caucasians should apply. It's so limiting to casting.

If you're a strictly African American theatre, it makes sense, but to put this out there is kinda ridiculous. Also, Evita was a major cunt. You just know there's a chance it might backfire and someone will write an article about casting a black woman as such an awful person is "problematic."

Why don't whiners like Jada finance a black writer to come up with a show that people would want to see? Then, go ahead and hire all black everything to employ members of their community. The Smiths have made plenty of money.

But Summertime is not a downer. It is bittersweet. Waltz is a Downer. Leona is out and out unpleasant. She pretends not to see the couple from the pensione who are inviting her to sit with them. They see this and are clearly hurt. She makes a drunken fool of herself at the party and outs the affair casting a pall over everything. And this at the end!

Doesn't Rossi at the end tell her he has no feelings for her? He's decided he simply doesn't have any affection for her. No wonder. Neither does the audience!

Again the only contributor to this mess who had anything wonderful to say was Rodgers and he was completely demoralized halfway through realizing that he had been making Summertime and everyone else had been making a cynical ugly American tourist does Death in Venice.

[quote]searching for a black actor to play Eva Peron, in what would be an historic first for Andrew Lloyd Webber’s Evita.

Been there, done that. When I was 18, yet.

I'm sure Latina actresses are THRILLED that one of the few major Latinx roles in a major musical isn't going to one of them.

r434, allow me to introduce you to the concepts of PR, agents, self-delusion, and narcissism

Telly Leung is most likely 65 years old. Orientals always look younger than they are.

" Orientals"? He's a rug or vase?

Is there an Asian equivalent to “black don’t crack”?

No way Leung is 35.

Rodgers was the producer of WALTZ. He could have—and often did—overrule any of the others. So he is not blameless in the show's failure.

[quote]No way Leung is 35.

He’s 39! Born January 1980

I would choose Telly over Ramin

Act II of the O'Leary Car Ride.

somehow seeking a black woman to play a Latina seems to imply that all non-whites are categorically and interchangeably 'exotic,' sort of like Lena's Light Egyptian makeup or Rita Moreno as Tuptim

Kind of like getting a white person to "play" Asian.

Emma Stone to play Suzy Wong!

well, no, r479, my point was that all "exotics" are interchangeably exotic, not that whites can do blackface or yellowface

Filipinos have been paying the bills playing all manner of Asians for several decades now.

[quote]Previous actors to have played the part include Elaine Paige, Patti LuPone, Madalena Alberto and Elena Roger, who played the role in the West End in 2006.

You fuckers forgot me!!!

It's not like Evita doesn't have good roles for black women. There is the role of the whore. And she gets 1 song.

[quote]There is the role of the whore. And she gets 1 song.

Since that one song is the show's only other certified hit, I made sure to take it for myself, so I had both of them. The hole of a whore got nothing in my movie.

[quote]Since that one song is the show's only other certified hit

I really like "Another Suitcase In Another Hall." I guess it's not covered by artists much because it's a duet? Kristin Chenoweth should have put it on her album instead of that insipid "Taylor, the latte boy" shit song.

Kristin Chenoweth always has good material except when she makes albums and then it’s like she shakes a Rolodex of cards and whatever falls on her lap that day, she records.

[quote]r485 Since that one song is the show's only other certified hit, I made sure to take it for myself, so I had both of them. The hole of a whore got nothing in my movie.—Madge

My friend and I used to joke about how traumatic it must have been for the young actress who played that part to GET IT, fly to the location (burbling with enthusiasm about her big break) and then after about 5 days ask, "When do we get to my number?"

And the crew going, "Um, yeah, well...."

[quote]My friend and I used to joke about how traumatic it must have been for the young actress who played that part to GET IT, fly to the location (burbling with enthusiasm about her big break) and then after about 5 days ask, "When do we get to my number?"

That was Irish singer Andrea Corr. Can you imagine? "Jayzus, Mammy, after all the troubles we've been through with the IRA, the blessed Mother Mary has smiled on me. I got a role in a major motion picture with a good song. Slainte!"

Remember when Madonna attempted to get a co-writing credit on “You Must Love Me”? That did not work out very well for her.

[quote]Remember when Madonna attempted to get a co-writing credit on “You Must Love Me”?

You’re kidding, right?

RIP Kaye Ballard. Passed away last night at 93. A bit sad that the obituraries I've read make no mention of her longtime partner (or "companion" as she called her)

Saw Molly in Boston in September 1973. Go in the best of health, Kaye!

I saw a production of 1776 that used African Americans in the cast and it was ridiculous. The most dramatic question of the show is the question of slavery, and it was ridiculous that the African-Americans didn't just pull out guns and shoot the poor sucker who had to sing "Molasses to Rum" in front of them. Hamilton succeeds by essentially ducking the question/reality of slavery. 1776 is about that question.

Kaye and Alice Ghostley were the stepsisters in the original TV broadcast of Rodgers and Hammerstein's "Cinderella" (1957).

Norm Lewis had a featured guest role on Bull last night.

Dorothy Collins was runner up in the casting of the original Waltz. She later played Leona to rave reviews at Papermill and met her husband Ron Holgate in that production.

Collins was also runner up for Amalia in the original She Loves Me.

Kay sure loved da poussay.

With marinara sauce.

I had friends who worked on I Remember Mama. They said Rodgers was becoming increasingly feeble and was almost totally written out as an artist. Over half the score had to be cobbled together from his trunk.

Don't know whether it's true but it is what I heard 40 years ago.

[quote]Dorothy Collins was runner up in the casting of the original Waltz.

I read this really quickly and thought it said she was runner up in the casting of The Wiz.

Her "Home" would have been beautiful.

Speaking of Ramin K., as we were, what's he up to these days?

How the hell does Ramin not get cast more frequently and in better projects on Broadway?? I mean....Anastasia? Love Never Dies??

I'd have loved to see him as Fred/Petruchio in Roundabout's Kiss Me Kate. Can you imagine him in those parti-coloured tights and cod-piece and an open-necked shirt exposing his navel? He'd actually manage to give Kelli O some sex appeal. Do you think he was considered?

He must have a terrible agent.

I love her and her belting. This is from 2000 in LA, 21 years after Broadway opening.

[quote]r496 Dorothy Collins was runner up in the casting of the original Waltz...Collins was also runner up for Amalia in the original She Loves Me.

Wow. Sucks to be her.

Agreed, r503!!

Do you know her live concert album recorded in LA when Life Goes On wrapped and just before she left for London to star in Sunset Boulevard? I think it's just called PATTI LUPONE LIVE.

Brilliant album. She's at her best there IMHO. The singing and her incredible rapport with the audience. Her chit-chat with them is hilarious.

The question is: was Barbara Cook considered for Sally in the original FOLLIES?

Would she have been too young (or fat) in 1970?

R501 It was announced earlier this month that he's been cast in a BBC TV series.

R508 Yes I have it, bought it when it was released. My favorite is Calling You/Get Here. Her videotaped concert has at least partly same material. Recorded in Florida.

Wasn't Ramin's son in a car crash recently?

Dorothy Collins was runner up in the casting of The Black Crook.

Sorry, R508 is filmed in California.

R495 that is so wonderful and so much more charming than the bloated and misbegotten Broadway mounting from a few years ago.

R507 That’s surprise. Holby City is an old but popular series in UK. Maybe he is looking for other tv work as well. Theater doesn’t pay nearly as much as tv and movies. I will watch it because Karim is hot.

Channing. Ballard. Who will be the third Broadway Baby to depart?

[quote]The question is: was Barbara Cook considered for Sally in the original FOLLIES? Would she have been too young (or fat) in 1970?

"Follies" opened in April 1971. Cook was in "The Grass Harp," which opened six months later. I recall reading that she was considered for Sally in the original production, but I can't remember the source.

[quote]Channing. Ballard. Who will be the third Broadway Baby to depart?

Stop looking at me, bitches.

When Sally says that she's fat, is she just being self-deprecating, because besides Cook, has there ever been a legitimately fat Sally?

Not me!

[quote]How the hell does Ramin not get cast more frequently and in better projects on Broadway?? I mean....Anastasia? Love Never Dies?? I'd have loved to see him as Fred/Petruchio in Roundabout's Kiss Me Kate. Can you imagine him in those parti-coloured tights and cod-piece and an open-necked shirt exposing his navel? He'd actually manage to give Kelli O some sex appeal. Do you think he was considered? He must have a terrible agent.

Interesting question. He has a beautiful voice but I guess it's not really right for classic musical theater roles, and also he's a very definite "type" physically and no longer a youngster, so that might leave him out of consideration for a lot of new projects. As for KISS ME, KATE, again, his voice is not totally right for it. And also, if he had been cast, unfortunately they would have had to avoid having him show his bare arms (as Howard Keel does in the movie) in order not to reveal the ridiculous tattoos with which he has marred his hot body.

[quote](as Howard Keel does in the movie)

What movie?

[quote]r510 Dorothy Collins was runner up in the casting of The Black Crook. —B. Cook

Right.

I think she ended up doing THE BLACK COCK instead.

[quote]Donna Murphy, flat as usual.

R264 judging someone's performance from a cell phone video uploaded to YouTube being an asshole as usual.

R520 My Fair Lady.

Keel bared his (untattooed) arms singing I Could Have Danced All Night and brought Audrey Hepburn to her knees.

Am I the only one who loves Elizabeth Allen on the Waltz album? She has the right belt for the opening and for the title song. And can sing gently when she needs to. In the photos she and Franchi make a very attractive couple. I assume when di Rossi is supposed to say I'm not young, I'm not good looking they had to leave those out and he just would say I'm not rich. I mean that whole cast was amazing.

Which was interesting, because in the scene prior, he had brought Roddy McDowell’s Col. Peckering to hus knees.

I though Ava Gardner as Mrs. Pearce really proved her range.

[quote]It was announced earlier this month that he's been cast in a BBC TV series.

Holby City is a soap opera. Oh, how the mighty have fallen.

[quote]Channing. Ballard. Who will be the third Broadway Baby to depart?

I think it's time for one of the druggies to shuffle off their mortal coil. So I'll choose either Liza Minnelli or Elizabeth Ashley. It's amazing their bodies have held up this long.

No, it isn’t, Babs/R529. It’s a hospital drama. It’s nothing like EastEnders.

Now if he had joined Hollyoaks...

No there are more of us out there R525! I love Allen's belted Db's on the title song--they sound so high but they're really not--and all the song endings in general where she brings it to a firm-voiced conclusion. The Ed Sullivan tab version of DIHAW? makes it look like an amazing show, which it clearly wasn't, but it seems former Ford model Allen was pretty wonderful in it.

I also love Alyson Reed, and value her DIHAW? album for being engineered in more modern sound, more complete. Her perf has her customary excellence. But I miss Elizabeth Allen's belting, and I'm not sure why Reed mixes/gurgles.

Allen was also a stitch as replacement Dorothy in the original 42nd ST.

Ramin has a great voice but he's incredibly bland as an actor.

I am still thinking of that poor man who saw 1776, and did not realize that the actual Continental Congress was all white. Apparently, because there were black actors on stage, he thought the actual Continental Congress had black delegates who could have pulled out guns to shoot the guy who sang Molasses to Rum.

Is the problem non-traditional casting?

Or an educational system that does not each Revolutionary War effectively--leading some poor idiot think there were black delegates and musical numbers as part of the debate?

The only thing I like in the Alyson Reed Waltz album is Carol Lawrence, who is almost as good as Carol Bruce was. "Everybody Loves Leona" is a terrible song, and not nearly as effective as the Laurents monologue for Leona that replaced it, it should never have been added back in. And the original lyrics to "We're Gonna Be All Right" (actually, not quite the original) make absolutely no sense for those characters, especially for Jennifer, the wife. Sondheim says he cringes over making Maria sound sophisticated in "I Feel Pretty," he should cringe about his lyrics for "We're Gonna Be All Right" as well.

Oh, there's plenty of cringe for Sondheim to go around. Some are genius, some are real stinkers.

Karimloo’s got a gorgeous singing voice but when he speaks-yikes. That Canadian accent is really awful.

[quote]You fuckers forgot me!!!

They said ACTORS, Madge.

[quote]Filipinos have been paying the bills playing all manner of Asians for several decades now.

I know this was probably a joke but it's often something I've wondered about. Do Vietnamese actors not get mad when it's mainly Filipinos doing the various productions of Miss Saigon?

[quote]r529 I'll choose either Liza Minnelli or Elizabeth Ashley. It's amazing their bodies have held up this long.

OMG, Ashley's still alive???

I thought she died along with THE RED DEVIL BATTERY SIGN

[quote] OMG, Ashley's still alive???

Still alive. I have a friend who worked with her. He said she is batshit crazy.

R538, in a few years this Vietnamese will be able to take his place in Miss Saigon. Go to 5:56

I can't even begin to imagine what was going on in the home when batshit crazy Ashley was married to batshit crazy Peppard.

Cocaine, R542. Lots and lots of cocaine (and booze and pills and weed and...).

George Peppard? He was crazy?

Maybe it will be a writer. Charles Strouse or Sheldon Harnick, both in their 90s.

Ashley has a decent role in Russian Doll, a Netflix series that comes out next month.

Ashley also has a cameo in OCEAN'S 8.

There's an interview with Ashley on the Blu-Ray of the awful "thriller" WINDOWS and she seems like a fun, brassy broad.

R544 Read Ashley's autobio and the nightmare that was Peppard. You'd say well of course it's from her crazy perspective. But I hooked up with a guy well before her book came out who claimed at one time he was a very good friend of hers and had spent time with the two of them. What he told me about Peppard was pretty frightening and I couldn't believe it. Then years later I read her book when it came out and it totally corroborated what he had told me.

What did Georgie-Porgie do?

[quote]r542 I can't even begin to imagine what was going on in the home when batshit crazy Ashley was married to batshit crazy Peppard.

Carroll Baker wrote that Peppard showed up in her dressing room on day one of THE CARPETBAGGERS and told her, "If you don't have an affair with me, I'll have one with Elizabeth Ashley."

As a married woman, Baker politely declined.

The rest is history.

[quote]r550 What did Georgie-Porgie do?

He drank bergin.

Liz Ashley is a classic good old broad from the Suzanne Pleshette school... loves to drink and gossip, but always shows up and does her job. No tolerance for diva shit or people not doing what they should be doing. ACTRESS is one of the best autobios about the theatre ever written and I'd believe 90% having interacted with her myself on several occasions. I hope she saved her EVENING SHADE money, but, even if not, she deserves to be venerated in her dotage (though she still works like a plow-horse).

R553, that is sweet. You actually believe that.

Ashley is batshit crazy. I have done two shows with her. She does *not* show up. She was often late, missed costume fitting etc. In one show she slugged the stage manager, a skinny little gay guy who would not hurt a fly. An actress left the cast due to her antics. In one case, she stole her costumes after the last performance, very expensive period clothes.

Ashley still lives in a building in Union Square, NY that was bought by NYU and converted into dorms decades ago....but they can't get her out. She was recently in I Hate Hamlet (as the German agent) at the Bucks County Playhouse where she got her start in Barefoot in the Park many years ago.

Darren Criss (who's part Filipino) IS Miss Saigon!!!

[quote]though she still works like a plow-horse

And looks like a plow-cow.

r517 Keala Settle IS Legitimately Fat Sally!

Barbara Cook would not really have fit the concept of the original Follies casting

[quote]Ashley still lives in a building in Union Square, NY that was bought by NYU and converted into dorms decades ago....but they can't get her out.

Why not?

Maybe she's still enrolled?

I thought Andy Randells was gay, so how can he be dating Patty Muron?

He's not; they're friends.

The world has changed, R562.

Men are now fluid.

Having anal sex reduces her anxiety?

I thought Patti Murin was married to that CHICAGO MD guy?

Please tell me people here don't seriously believe Patti Murin is dating Andrew Rannells.

Well, somebody believes it. Not clear why.

Of course not, r568. We're just having fun. Besides, everyone knows Patti Murin's been dating Nick Adams ever since she broke up with Andrew Keenan-Bolger.

Imagine going from Mike Doyle to Patty Murin.

Anyone know who the ever charming ever handsome Doyle(though completely out of his mind for ever having a relationship with Rannells in the first place) is dating?

r570 - Thank you. Yes, I knew that and just assumed everyone else did as well.

Strap-ons can do wonders for mismatched couples.

[quote]r65 What happened to that male nurse who lit the penthouse on fire and killed his patient and another nurse?

OMG ... that sounds like Bette Davis in THE NANNY or something [bold]: o

please somebody finish this thread - i beg of you!!

[quote]Men are now fluid.

I really didn't need to think about Andrew Rannells's fluids.

With the amount of work he's had done, nothing about Andrew Rannells is fluid

R577 you mean plastic surgery?

R578 What do you think?

He photographs badly. In person, his face doesn't look anywhere that bad.

I would hope not. That's pretty bad.

since this thread is over, I'll catch y'all in #340. 🖑

Bajour!

Coffee And, Andy.

His eyes are legit slits

Is Rannells part Asian?

i think he is and he's hiding it. it's gotta be like a grandfather or something.

[quote]Is Rannells part Asian?

Andrew Rannells *IS* Miss Saigon

Rannells looks like many of the midwestern, protestant chubby-cheeked boys I grew up around in Chicago, and even more like the farm boys I taught in rural Nebraska (isn't he from Omaha), none of whom had any Asian heritage to speak of.

I’m pleased my little thread survived and want to thank those of you who resisted those SJW snowflakes who attempted (and failed) to start up another #339.

IMO a healthy, reasonable debate over color blind casting is valid as long as it isn’t reduced to racist baiting.

^^^^i just got here. was it about black glinda? cause that shit is a HOT MESS. and the girl in kong shouldn't be black either. come on now. kong wouldn't want that nappy headed girl.

.'[quote]IMO a healthy, reasonable debate over color blind casting is valid as long as it isn’t reduced to racist baiting.

Agreed. Don't know why some of them called certain posters 'racist.' Most, if not all, of the comments were respectful.

You mean like the racism of R591's remarks?

^^^don't do that. my mama was black. they have nappy hair. it's a fact. and black glinda looks stupid.

Oh, jeezus, end this now.

r591, go away.

R593 you know who/what I meant. Poster R591/R594 is just riling up people. None of the posts re colorblind casting were anything like that.

NOPE. I'm back.

Make this end

Chita’s Birthday

BAJOUR!

Thank God.