Unpopular fact: Mariah Carey was far better singer than Whitney Houston.

[quote]Plus Mariah didn't destroyed her voice with drugs

Maybe not with drugs, OP, but her voice is surely destroyed.

Patsy Cline with modern studio tech would blow both of them out of the water.

They were both awful bitches who's personality cancelled out any "talent" they might have had. Maruah was always an awful singer with no breath control. Shithead was a muff addict and crack addict who's days was always numbered.

Mariah is so cocky that she created bunch of songs woth 4 octave range, tons of whistle notes and belts that barely anyone can sing, she performed it live several Times in 90's and now everyone do pikachu face that she can't sing and lip sync

If she's not a drug addict why is her voice so fucked up now?

Nodules

Not a "fact" in the slightest. Whitney was an incredible singer from a family of talented vocalists.

Mariah has more range and emotion and writes her stuff but I think Whitney sounded prettier, sweeter and more elegant. Both are amazing in different ways.

Mariah may have had more technical ability than Whitney, but I prefer Whitney's singing.

[quote] Patsy Cline with modern studio tech would blow both of them out of the water.

Whitney's voice was NOT studio-enhanced. Honey, I don't think Patsy Cline could even blow Demi Lovato out the water.

[quote]Plus she is shady icon while Whitney was stupid.

How do you mean?

R10 You Crazy

When you listen to Whitney’s acapella recordings with the music stripped out, the clarity and purity is impressive.

Our soon to be AI superstars shall render such discussions moot. Besides, neither of these bitches are fit to spit polish Yma Sumac’s toenail jewelry.

Mariah is no Whitney. End of story

BTW, Whitney is responsible for the phrase "show me the receipts" and the concept that "receipts" are proof of something that is in doubt. When people say "I've got the receipts" they are using a term in the manner Whitney coined. It is legendary and far more universal than "I don't know her."

In her prime, before the champagne got the best of her, (Mariah drinks.) Mariah Carey had a magnificent voice. But no one compares to Whitney in her prime. Before the crack did her in. These song birds need to take care of their instrument. Too many of them abuse it. Once they enjoy success, they go wild and it wreaks havoc on their voice.

Mariah Carey has more range. But given the choice, I'd rather listen to Whitney Houston recordings.

I have your same preference for Mariah (though I think Whitney's better in the classical sense). Mariah has a certain playful and flirtatiousness that I personally love, where Whitney is regal and pure. Mariah's not as queenly but she's more free and human.

OP, tell us you’re undateable without saying you’re undateable.

R3 you are hysterical. 😂. I want you in me deeply.

Whitney sounded better live where she could improvise and sound expressive. Her record label told her to tone down on her voice and sound more monotone in order to not distract from the typical 80s overproduction. That's why people assumed she was "soulless" because of her audio recordings. However all her live performances are on YouTube and you can see that is not the case.

OP, do not be ridiculous. Whitney has a spectacularly beautiful, rich, agile and powerful voice whose registers were perfectly connected. If she lost her upper register relatively soon and her tessitura kept getting lower, it's because she was a heavy smoker and drug user since adolescence, not to mention that she started to continuously sing in the soprano range long before she was physically ready to do so - however, her lower register was strong and full and the column of sound remained unchanged as she rose up through the octaves. Also, her technique was good enough to enable her to sing part of Rigoletto's La donna è mobile without any effort, which impressed even Pavarotti himself. Mariah would NEVER be able to do this.

Yes, Mariah has a brighter voice, a slightly higher tessitura and the uncanny ability to transition from mixed voice to a disconnected whistle register, but vocally she has always had lots of problems. Her low notes are airy and thin, and by 1997 her notes above D5 were already sounding harsh and strained. Mariah also started to constantly sing soprano long before she was ready to do so and if you top that with the fact that she loves to drink and her technique has always been rather uneven, you can see why she has always had so many problems. I have never believed that her classical singer mother really taught her how to sing, because if she had done so her high notes would have always sounded effortless and her registers would have been properly developed.

So yes, Whitney's overall range was more limited, but her voice was better developed and her tone was richer and fuller. In terms of agility and elasticity (doing very difficult things like switching registers several times within the same phrase), Mariah beats her to the punch. Regarding who has the more beautiful voice, that is a matter of personal taste.

Whitney was at her best between E3 and E5, and up to around 1995 could belt up to A5. Using her head voice, she was comfortable up to B5, but everything above G#6 was quite strained. After that, her voice rapidly deteriorated, her tessitura was lowered and everything became a raspy, airy mess.

Mariah's voice is at its best between G3 and E5 - below G3, everything becomes hazy and weak and above E5, her belts have never been relaxed, even if she could go up to G#5 in the past. Her head voice is also remarkably limited: in the past she was comfortable singing up to A5, but after that it became airy up to D6, and then she switched to whistle register. Her whistles are impeccable, though, and she is much more comfortable vocalizing above C6 than Whitney ever was.

So yes, the both of them have similar placements (they are definitely high mezzos), but they ruined their voices with bad habits, lack of discipline when it comes down to technique and singing too high before their vocal chords had properly matured.

[quote] Mariah Carey was far better singer than Whitney Houston.

Oh honey.....no.

R23 just dropped reality on some bitches.

THREAD

CLOSED

I was surprised that Ke$ha has a 3 or 4 octave range. Too bad her songs always suck.

R23 speaks the truth. I suspect r23 is an opera singer or teacher...

Does it matter? Mariah is still alive and well so she can sing while Whitney's skeleton can't.

Mariah can't sing live anymore and lip syncs though

What r17 said. Thank you, r23.

And, why throw Patsy Cline, one of my all-time favorites, into this?

I adore both Ella Fitzgerald and Cline. To me, in terms of raw, sheer talent, both belong in the same category as Streisand and Garland.

I think it takes even more talent to quietly convey an emotion with the subtlest of phrasing, rather than the big, belting sound of Houston and Carey and I write this as a fan of both of them.

Like Lady Gaga said "anyone who lip sync is spitting on his fans"

No, OP. That’s your unpopular OPINION.

Anyone who think Whitney was even close to Mariah listen to this

This R33, people will say to not laugh about her but it was all her fault, nobody gave her drugs.

She was a closet muff diver, came from a religious black family, was most likely introverted. She had like 10 reasons to take drugs.

Believe me R35 nobody care- I don't care people don't care universe don't care, black holes don't care, God don't care

Whitney's black hole needed to be taken care of by sweet lovin' muff but yet she was stuck with Bobbie Brown. Yuck. Getting pounded by Bobbie would make any black girl kill herself.

Um, no.

To put this in perspective, there must be several dozens of opera singers from the 20th century that were miles ahead of either of them.

Just because someone has range doesn't mean they know how to sing.

A lot of blame falls on the fans. Take Christina Aguilera. Her fans encourage her to wail at the top of her lungs. They think that unpleasant sound that Christina makes is singing and clap and get all excited when she goes into that mode.

Whitney’s use of her talent, how she put it together and presented it was far superior. Sorry.

R41 therevis entire thread about this

*there is Stupid autocorrect

[quote]Mariah is no Whitney. End of story

That's a compliment, right?

You are idiot if you believe Whitney would be able to sing this part

Or this- Shitney would shat her pants trying to phrase those G5's.

Celine can sing Whitney songs Mariah can sing Whitney songs Whitney can sing Celine songs

But Celine and Whitney can't sing Mariah songs hahaah

I like this comparison.

Has anyone's voice declined as badly as Mariah's did after 1996? The only singer I can think off who had a similar or worse decline is Marianne Faithful but that worked to her advantage, it gave her voice character.

R49 tone is such subjective thing, I think Mariah had far better tone than Shitney. Some believe that Shittina has great tone and I am yet to see it.

Whitney emoted better, way much better than Mariah. Amy Winehouse was another one who emoted so preternatually.

Monica Naranjo, Sohyang, Natalie Weiss are far better singers than both. Not to mention that random opera Singer would be able to wipe the floor with their wigs.

Mariah’s been lipping certain notes in concert for decades now.

Whitney even at her worst never did that. She was a staunch believer in live being live.

R54, tell me about it. Whitney was booed throughout Europe shortly before her death. Her voice was completely gone and people were pissed. And then she died.

R55 How quickly we forget Mariah’s “Stella” period. Culminating in the infamous NYE performance that almost destroyed her career.

This?

R56, Whitney's voice was even worse than that prior to her death. She could not stay on key for the life of her.

They're very different singers, but Mariah Carey had a wider vocal range and was a more versatile singer than Whitney Houston. She had a bigger toolbox than anyone in the game. Her House remixes alone are proof of that. Outstanding vocals. Mariah went vocally where no one else could follow. Her singing was an aspirational listening experience while Whitney's was a relatable one. Anyone could learn to belt and sustain a mid-belt like Houston, but if you were listening to Mariah, you knew there would come a point when she would execute a run or phrase in such a way that was impossible for mere mortals.

Mariah's one weakness was her head voice which was fine, but underutilized in favor of falsetto and whistle notes. Mariah also has better music videos and a stronger music catalog that kept pace with the times. Like Madonna, Mariah also writes and produces her music which also helps with royalties. Celine and Whitney made their money from performing other people's songs live. Sadly, now both are dead or dying. Mariah is still alive and kicking.

People are basic and Whitney was far easier to grasp. She did the same thing over and over and people ate it up. Lots of sustained A#4s/B4s and then she would end a song in head voice on the word you. From 1995-2001 Whitney also preferred to shorten her phrases and do runs when she could no longer sustain notes.

Whitney was a much stronger live performer. She relished it. Mariah has always admitted to preferring the intimacy of a recording booth over the pressure of a live performance. But Mariah still turned out some truly great performances on tv and on tour. She only started lip-syncing once the technology became available. It makes sense. A smart way to preserve your voice. We know she can sing. Why blow your voice out in the cold or desert air?

This R59 Mariah Carey used so many different styles, techniques, she is responsible for making collabs of singers and rappers popular, has 5.3 octave range and never had a meltdown like Shitney. Plus she is alive. Her music videos are far more iconic.

[quote] Anyone who think Whitney was even close to Mariah listen to this

Whitney never lip-synched and never used prerecorded vocal tracks in concert. You got what she had at every performance. When she didn't have it, you didn't get it. Since @2000, Mariah has almost always performed 'live' with vocal tracks recorded, augmented and processed in a recording studio. Can you imagine if Mariah ever actually sang live? It would be abominable.

[quote] She only started lip-syncing once the technology became available. It makes sense. A smart way to preserve your voice. We know she can sing. Why blow your voice out in the cold or desert air?

???? Yeah, just like we know JLo and Paula Abdul can sing.

[quote] To put this in perspective, there must be several dozens of opera singers from the 20th century that were miles ahead of either of them.

Opera singers cannot sing popular music. Singing popular music is it's own thing. No one is miles ahead of Whitney Houston. If she had been classically trained she would have been a superstar opera singer.

The late, great diva Grace Bumbry learned this lesson. A weighty voice in opera that was not as distinctive in pop.

^^^ Now, Dionne's sublime original.

Opera singers can produce resonance across their entire range; Mado Robin could even sang D7 in head voice, Erna Sack would sang C#7.... But those ladies would not be able to use their range and power in pop music.

People keep saying that after 1996 Mariah's voice was shot. I can't entirely agree with that. She gave some great live performances around the time she released Butterfly. She didn't push her voice to the limit in live settings as she did from 1990-1996, but she sounded excellent nevertheless.

I thought this performance of My All was awesome. Mariah's voice didn't decline until around 1998 with the release of Rainbow. And that's when she began using a lot of backtracks and lipsynching. Black Music Archive has a theory that Mariah's voice declined so rapidly after 1998 because she pushed her voice to the max on all her 90s recordings. It's a miracle she could even perform, considering everything she did vocally on the Emotions album.

When you literally use your 5 octaves for 6 years no wonder your cords gonna say fuck you

[quote] never had a meltdown like Shitney.

Are you joking? Were you born by 2001? Everyone around then remembers Mariah's infamous breakdown due to "exhaustion" (read: denial about bipolar). Her career suffered until Emancipation came out.

Mariah absolutely had a horrible time in early 2000's due to his husband and fact that Glitter became huge flop.

It was almost as floppy as Floptina's Bionic in 2010.

R68 Technically, I Know What You Want was the start of her comeback in 2003. A top 3 hit on the BBH100. A two year dip isn't so bad. Glitter still had a #2 hit with Loverboy. 9/11 affected sales and promo. Still, the soundtrack went platinum. Charmbracelet had no hit singles, but still sold over 2M copies.

Mariah didn't really start flopping until 2009's Memoirs of a Ridiculous Title which went Gold. Her first truly undeniable flop was 2014's Elusive Chanteuse which failed to reach that and was bested in its opening week by ancient Streisand. Caution was a critical hit, but DOA on the charts.

A 24 year run (1990-2014) of 19 #1 hits songs, 6 #1 albums, 5 Grammy wins, and general cultural relevancy isn't too shabby. She definitely had a longer ride at the top compared to most. This can be attributed to her superior voice, strong songwriting, evergreen hit songs, and marketable good looks.

R70, Platinum for a star who had no issue getting multi-platinum albums a year or two pior in the US is not very good. Charmbracelet did worse. I Know What You Want was a big hit but I really don't think she had her comeback until Emancipation. It's the same with Madonna Bedtime Stories and Erotica would have been hits for anyone else but by Madonna's standards of success they were middling. Evita was a mild success but it was with Ray of Light that she really came back in full force.

[quote] A 24 year run (1990-2014) of 19 #1 hits songs, 6 #1 albums, 5 Grammy wins, and general cultural relevancy isn't too shabby. She definitely had a longer ride at the top compared to most. This can be attributed to her superior voice, strong songwriting, evergreen hit songs, and marketable good looks.

Most of her No. 1 hits were bought by Tommy Mottola. Even Billboard magazine was savage in its review of "Loverboy", her first non-Sony single, because for years it had been silenced by Mottola. It only sold because Virgin priced the single at 50 cents and it just made it to No. 2. I am a fan of Mariah's music but I can probably only name 9 or 10 of her No. 1 hits. I can name many songs of hers that I like, even more recent ones, like "Infinity", "Meteorite" and "Giving Me Life." She's a great recording artist but not a performer or even really a singer.

Unfuckable gays bitch fighting about DIVAs.

[quote] Most of her No. 1 hits were bought by Tommy Mottola.

That's a lie. You're referring to those "No. 1 hits" around the time she released Rainbow. I do not deny there was chart manipulation involved (and even with that, all the major record companies from Warner, Arista, Atlantic, .etc, did it, not just Sony). However, most of her number-one hits from her debut to Daydream were legit. I don't remember ever buying her singles from her first five albums for 50 cents.

And when she had her comeback in 2005 with The Emancipation of Mimi, she was burning up the charts again like it was the 90s, and this was without Tommy Mottola's involvement. Some fans of other singers hate to admit that Mariah was extremely popular during her great run because they feel threatened that she's somehow overshadowing their faves.

Whitney's National Anthem at the Super Bowl was pre-recorded. Was it a great performance? Yes. But it was prerecorded.

R71 Charmbracelet literally sold more than Glitter. Over 1M copies in the US and 3M copies worldwide. It performed better than Glitter which still managed to go platinum in the US and sell 2M copies worldwide.

[quote] Some fans of other singers hate to admit that Mariah was extremely popular during her great run because they feel threatened that she's somehow overshadowing their faves.

Mariah doesn't overshadow anyone. She was very prolific and industrious and I loved that about her. My favorite Mariah songs weren't even singles -- "Bliss", "Mine Again", "Close My Eyes", etc. -- she has a very impressive catalog of RECORDINGS. The problems arise when her fans try to compare her to real singers or live performers. She is a recording artist who made magic in the studio. That is its own art form and she was very talented in that regard. She will never be in league with Whitney or Celine as a live performer...never.

R75, we all know that story. The NFL insisted that she pre-record it. A few weeks later, she sang it completely live and it as least as good or better than the pre-recorded version.

R77 Mariah was a good live performer during her vocal peak. Celine and Whitney were always hams. The coke sweat on Whitney was ghastly. The gangly, spastic movements of Celine were a harbinger of her debilitating disease to come.

Real talent isn't in showing off the effort, it's in making it look effortless. In her 90s prime, Mariah made singing such difficult songs look so easy.

At the beginning of her career, she sounded rather bored. I wonder what went through her mind when she was on stage? I think in the song breakdown she describes how she destroyed her voice from 1997 until 2000 by "going to extremes to prove I'm fine without you". Did she mean Derek Jetter? Unfortunately she ruined her voice in the 2010s due to weed. Sad.

R77 r u fuckin kidding? She sang emotions in a even higher key hitting multiple times F#7 and belting G#5 like it was nothing. Vision of love, emotions, if its over are way harder than all by myself or I have nothing yet mariah sang them even better than in studio.

Plus Celline wasn't able to sing that F5 from All by myself- always dodge or lower to Eb5.

[quote] Real talent isn't in showing off the effort, it's in making it look effortless. In her 90s prime, Mariah made singing such difficult songs look so easy.

Frankly, I don't think Mariah's hands flailing about make her pantomime look effortless. Her phrasing and pitch are awful, and her ad-libs uninspired. And if her performances ever did look effortless it's because it requires less effort to lip-synch than to sing.

I'll stop though...every few months someone is trying to rewrite Mariah's history.

And she sells cookies.

Mariah: better technique, sang in an intelligent way

Whitney: better tone/natrually pretty voice, more emotions

Celine: oooooeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

but I like this song:

[quote] [R77] r u fuckin kidding? She sang emotions in a even higher key hitting multiple times F#7 and belting G#5 like it was nothing. Vision of love, emotions, if its over are way harder than all by myself or I have nothing yet mariah sang them even better than in studio.

??? LIVE?!! I mean really live, not Mariah-live. I think not...

Show me the receipts, Diane!

They both had pretty bad technique- all are shitting on Xtina for horrible technique but the truth is they are no better. Natalie Weiss wipe the floor with them- the resonate and support notes from her lowest C3 , her highest belt B5 to her head voice C#6.

R85

[quote] She will never be in league with Whitney or Celine as a live performer...never.

Your opinion. I'll give you Whitney; she was a better live performer than Mariah and far more consistent. But Celine Dion? To quote Whitney, hell to naw! She has been lipsynching far longer than Mariah, but somehow Mariah always gets criticized more than Celine.

And there are so many stellar live performances from Mariah in the 90s it's pointless to post them because people like you would dismiss them anyway. If her live performances were always lackluster, Mariah would have never survived as long as she has. There were times she was stiff on stage in the beginning due to her stage fright, but after the release of Emotions, she got better, and by the time she released Music Box and Daydream, she performed on the stage like a pro.

So, no, it's you that's trying to rewrite Mariah's history, not her fans.

R78, thanks for posting that! I love the Welcome Home Heroes performance. I've watched this "All the Man That I Need" performance so many times. This is peak Whitney.

R82 That's why everyone who sings her songs sounds better. Oh wait... they don't. Many people imitate Whitney and Celine. They're easier to approximate, but there's only one Mariah. I have yet to see someone truly nail her incredibly intricate vocal runs and sound as good as she does in the whistle register. Everyone else ends up sounding shrill when they try to hit her notes.

People hate Mariah because they can't do what she does. It's frustrating for some, but many others bask in the warmth of her great vocals. Singers know Mariah is the real deal and love her for it.

R86 Whithney's technique was great but she pushed herself too hard with her throat tension. She did that on purpose though. Either from the cocaine high, or she was pissed off all the time (closet case) or she thought she had to sing so aggressive in order to dominate pop music. And Mariah's technique was incredible too, otherwise she wouldn't have been able to sing the way she did from 1990 until 1997 (Especially something like Emotions or My All). What Mariah did wrong was that at one point she overused her whisper voice which is harmful for your vocals (and the weed smoking nowadays). The woman in your video is great but she sounds more like Elsa from Frozen. She sings too perfect for pop and stiff. Although Jessie J, Vanessa Amorosi and Jojo have that problem.... This is called white woman vocal runs not everyone wants to hear that. Sorry. Christina is the worse though because for high notes she just screams. That's why her voice only lasted for 9 years or so (normally with good technique, a singer's voice should last a lifetime). Nowadays she sounds like a bear. Sad.

I favor Whitney's voice, but I do like Mariah. Though the "four octave" squealing is in no way superior to Whitney's vocal offerings.

Whitney was always the superior singer. Always. The whistle thing can be classified as gimmick - like Patti LaBelle's wigs.

[quote] The whistle thing can be classified as gimmick - like Patti LaBelle's wigs.

The whistle notes were no more a gimmick than Whitney hitting her falsetto notes with "you" or "me." (Even Debra Wilson from MadTV made fun of that when she parodied Whitney.) Every major singer has their own stylistic choices they use that make them uniquely them. Mariah was no different.

And Mariah didn't have to rely on them all the time for many of her songs. With Make It Happen she didn't use them, and she sounded amazing.

R76, those are horrible stats. Charmbracelet sold 3 million globally!? Even American Life sold more than that!

Is it a gimmick for her too R93?

But we all can agree that Madonna can't sing.

Yeah, the whistle notes do seem gimmicky. I actually like it when Mariah sings in her low voice, like at the end of "Vision of Love": And it was aaah ... ll that you turned out to be.

R95 American Life spelled the end of Madonna being able to use controversial antics to her advantage. Never had another #1 hit in the US after that.

Anyone who complains about Mariah's whistles are simply jealous they can't do it. It's an amazing ability that differentiated her as an artist in the competitive pop music landscape. Everyone has to have something. She employs it to great effect and with superb mastery unlike the many imitators who followed her.

She stole it from Minnie Ripperton. Earlier whistle was sometimes used by coloratura sopranos to sing above G6 but it was connected.

R100 Mariah didn't steal it from anyone. She had been able to sing that way since she was a very little girl due to the nodules on her vocal cords. If you don't have it, you can't use it. No one said Mariah was the only person who could sing that way, but she used it to maximum effect and with the greatest success.

[quote] She stole it from Minnie Ripperton.

That's silly. Are we going to say that the way Whitney used her falsetto notes was stolen from singers like Stephanie Mills, Deniece Williams and Tramaine Hawkins, who were using them in a similar fashion? No.

Mariah never made it a secret that Minnie Riperton was one of her biggest influences as a vocalist (along with Aretha Franklin and Stevie Wonder).

While I loved both Mariah and Whitney, Whitney tells a tale when she sings. She makes you feel.

Mariah, not so much.

I don't think pop can be compared to Broadway or opera. It's not a debate that stage and opera singers have superior voices. But pop music is for the masses to enjoy, it's lighthearted and meant for escapism. So what makes a good pop singer is holding people's attention for three to four minutes and having the ability to connect on an emotional level.

I think I like Donna Summer better than Whitney and Mariah. She had more charisma when singing live and she could sing uptempo songs, and didn't just sing ballad after ballad.

R105 Summer was a whore who became a homophobic, born-again Christian once her career stalled out in the 80s. Be gone with you!

r106 That may be, but she was a good singer.

R106 and what does that have to do with her singing talent?

I think they’re both great. Personally I prefer the tone of Whitney’s voice, her emotional connection and amazing live performances when she was on and in good voice. Mariah’s great too, as some have pointed out her creativity and those great house mixes in which she reinvented her approach to the original versions of the songs!

It seems crazy to me that people like OP state one singer is better than another as a FACT when it clearly has to do with personal taste. Also when people over analyze their technical ability and range and try to use this to claim someone is “better” than someone else. It reeks of insecurity trying to “prove” that one singer is superior. It’s so much more mature and realistic to just state that you personally prefer one to another and why.

R106 The thread is about Mariah and Whitney who were contemporaries. No derailing the thread with other tangential artists. Celine is allowed because the three of them formed the Vocal Trinity of the 1990s.

^Oops, I meant R108.

I wasn't offering my opinion re my preference of one over the other. I'll state it again - Houston was the superior singer if the two.

Whitney developed the “Liza” S.

Donna Summers eats all these other bitches cunts for breakfast. She the best of all no doubts.

Lisa Fischer is better singer than Mariah.

Lisa Fischer was great. Could have been a contender but she didn't want to be famous and was happy being a back up singer.

In How can I ease the pain she hit that G6 in head voice like it was nothing.

I am not the people who brought up Donna Summer above but they're right, she really is criminally underrated and certainly on par talent wise with Whitney and Mariah. The amazing thing about Donna Summer besides her awesome voice was her versatility, she was able to do so many vocal and musical styles. From her distinctive signature deep-throated rich tones to her orgasmic cooing, she conquered disco, pop, rock, soul, ballads all the way through midtempo to very high energy dance (ironically in her final comeback). Unfortunately her legend is tainted by her association with disco and her career inconsistency after the demise of that genre, along of course with her pro-Christian anti-homo ideology which eventually softened but understandably alienated many of her biggest fans. I believe had she lived longer she may have experienced a second coming of sorts once more nostalgia kicked in, in the same way as legends like Chaka Khan and Dionne Warwick have, and better cemented her legend, especially among gays.

My father believed Donna Summer is far above Mariah and I snatched her wig so badly.

Donna Summer sucks xtian cocks in hell.

You’re not saying much OP. Both are note strangling caterwauling song murderers.

Neither... gay men have that unnatural fascination with straight/bisexual women who sing either sad ballads or agressive pop and cum every time when their fav hit high note.

If it's not talking about gay pornstars and wherever they are gay, bi or str8 it's talking wherever Mariah can hit E7 in Emotions or how Cher and Madonna scream Fuck Trump.

Basically this

And this

Unpopular fact: Jennifer Hudson blows them BOTH out of the fucking water. Check out her acapella singing on the Voice.

Jennifer Hudson has awful tone

Neither one of them can hold a candle to Rihanna.

Bitch better have my money Y'all should know me well enough Bitch better have my money Please don't call me on my bluff Pay me what you owe me Ballin' bigger than LeBron Bitch, give me your money Who y'all think y'all frontin' on? Like bra, bra, bra Louis XIII, and it's all on me, nigga, you just bought a shot Kamikaze, if you think that you gon' knock me off the top Shit, your wife in the backseat of my brand new foreign car Don't act like you forgot I call the shots, shots, shots Like bra, bra, bra Pay me what you owe me, don't act like you forgot Bitch better have my money Bitch better have my money Pay me what you owe me Bitch better have my (bitch better have my) Bitch better have my (bitch better have my) Bitch better have my money Turn up to Rihanna while the whole club fuckin' wasted Every time I drop, I am the only thing y'all playin' In a drop top, doin' hundred, y'all in my rearview mirror racin' Where y'all at? Where y'all at? Where y'all at? Like bra, bra, bra Louis XIII, and it's all on me, nigga, you just bought a shot Kamikaze, if you think that you gon' knock me off the top Shit, your wife in the backseat of my brand new foreign car Don't act like you forgot I call the shots, shots, shots Like bra, bra, bra Pay me what you owe me, don't act like you forgot Bitch better have my money Bitch better have my money Pay me what you owe me Bitch better have my (bitch better have my) Bitch better have my (bitch better have my) Bitch better have my money Bitch better have my money Pay me what you owe me Bitch better have my (bitch better have my) Bitch better have my (bitch better have my) Bitch better have my money Bitch better have my money Bitch better have my money Bitch, bitch, bitch better have my money Yo, that bitch better have my money Hold up My money Yo, my money That bitch better have my money Bitch better have my money

Was this the French Whitney?

Lara Fabian was far better than Whitney. Her Adagio is just pure resonance.

I bought Lara Fabian's album and all her songs sounds like that Adagio. She literally try to blow your earbrums with resonance.

Makes sense, Fabian was promoted as the next Celine Dion.

Mariah Carey : Eb2- Bb5- F6- B7, light lyric soprano

Whitney Houston: C3-G#5-C#6, spinto soprano.

Miss Patti Labelle slay them both.

Lady Marmalade

I feel like we’re hauling out barbie dolls for a mean girl war.

Each of these artists is the strong, beautiful black woman you will never be. Give it a rest.

*was And Mariah is hardly black.

Mariah Carey is a big fan of Karen Clark Sheard of the Clark Sisters and that's a mezzo-soprano for sure. I dig a little gospel every now and again.

I like both Mariah and Whitney. It's a shame they never did a duet. I'm serious.

They did R137

R138 Really? Oh my goodness! I missed that somehow.

[quote] Miss Patti Labelle slay them both.

Miss Aretha Franklin slays Miss Patti LaBelle.

[quote] Donna Summers eats all these other bitches cunts for breakfast. She the best of all no doubts.

First of all, baby, my name is 'Donna Summer' with an 's' on the end. Secondly, I do not and have never ate anyone's cunt at any time. Thirdly, yes, because I was covered in the blood of my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, I sang with complete assurance that neither Whitney nor Mariah (especially Mariah) could touch the hem of my dress. By His grace, I maintained my entire vocal range and my full, rich vocal firepower until the Lord called me home.

Finally, let me say once again -- I did not say that AIDS was divine retribution for homosexuality and I never believed it. It hurt me deeply that some of you believe that I said it. You queens really worked my last nerve sometimes but I loved you.

Whitney's voice was much more pleasant, so smooth and absolutely flawless at her peak.

I always much preferred Mariah's music overall, though, because it has personality and Whitney's was generally bland early on and then later the whole personality amounted to 'sassy and brassy.'

Mariah's wordplay and vocal athleticism make her music much more listenable over a longer term to me. I don't really like her music that much after 'The Emancipation of Mimi,' but I've always appreciated her wit. Her voice is not *pretty* like Whitney's and Celine's usually are, but her songwriting makes her the artist I prefer. The other two sang way too much sappy and trite music.

Regarding my post at r141, even in Heaven, in my Father's house, you can still make a typo. My name is "Donna Summer" there is no 's' on my surname. Always remember, God sees everything you do, even the disgusting sh*t, and he loves you anyway.

None of them were worthy to kiss the feet of Minnie Ripperton.

Donna wrote in her autobiography that Minnie Riperton was one of the first to befriend and welcome her when she moved to Los Angeles. They were friends.

I don't know what that has to do with Whitney or Mariah, but I just thought I'd share.

Carry on...

Even Maria Carey's poos are whiter than the white monkeys of the spit of europe. Mariah claims to be half black or quarter black but she is 100% white monkey. I mean come on.

Why do folks have to go on and on about an aging singer losing their voice? We don't hold athletes to the same standards, despite the situations being the same. Some folks' muscles can maintain till their old age, others have a short period in the sun. Vocal cords are no different. Who cares if Whitney and Mariah couldn't meet their old standards by the 2010s or sooner? Op asked who was the better singer, so why not focus on each woman's peak instead of taking jabs at their downfalls?

That said, Whitney was a stronger vocalist. Mariah more technically impressive. I prefer Mariah's catalogue and sound. It really helps that her 90s hits, have the same flow as old Motown Supreme's hits. It's all that 60s perfected type of music calculation, that's easy to tap your feet to. Whitney's peak was during a musically chaotic late-80s early-90s. It's fun and over it's time, but over produced sounds that tire me out.

But baby, when Whitney had good material, she was like beautiful organ. My Love is Your Love album is my peak Whitney era. The sound and songs were so smooth and cool. I wish she could have found this footing earlier into the 90s. "Learned from the Best" sort of aligns closer to Mariah type of free-style and easy listening. I wish she had more songs like this.

Also, this song makes me think of my mom as she played this album a lot during my parents divorce. Whitney's album touches me in a way most others don't.

R143 Yes, agreed. Donna Summers ain't even her real name. Her husbands last name was Sommers.

R139

Whitney made her career out of singing covers.

“I Will Always Love You” “The Greatest Love of All” “The Star Spangled Banner.”

R150 and Mariah is basically the female Timbaland

R147 People also hold it against singers as it it's some kind of moral failing that the quality of their voice degrades, and they compare one person to another. Different people's bodies age differently, and it's the quality of the body that determines the quality of sound.

And then there are health considerations. Shania Twin quit singing because Lyme disease destroyed her vocal cords. She had surgery and started singing again and people talk about her diminished voice as if she destroyed it by being irresponsible. It's crazy.

Just because one person remains vocally agile at age 50, that doesn't mean most others will.

I will never understand why the majority of people think celebrities are actual gods or demigods who are not supposed to age, to become unwell, to make mistakes. It's insane.

[quote] Why do folks have to go on and on about an aging singer losing their voice?

If they are making it an age thing, that's odd. Whitney and Mariah did not lose their singing voices due to age, it was drug use, alcohol and (in Mariah's case) bad technique.

They each had their strengths and weaknesses. Mariah "far better"? No.

R153 and this

r153 but why does it matter? Both women pumped out enough songs to contribute to OP's discussion without talking about their vocal deterioration. It seems like a cheap shot and a tired diversion from the discussion.

Society doesn't talk about the fastest 100M dash runner by bringing up a 50 year old sprinters split. They focus on where they were in their peak, regardless of what leads to performance deterioration. Why don't we treat singers the same way when comparing talent and ability?

Marilyn McGoo was better than all these modern bitches combined. Tout suite bitches.

McGoo??

Where's the fact?

Even Christina Aguilera is not as powerful as Whitney, and Mariah is nowhere near as talented as Aguilera.

Although her voice is still excellent.

she was stunning. She can still sing, too. But this is from when she was young.

R156, that's a good point. I guess it is probably sexist. Male singers aren't held to those standards. Axel Rose voice had a huge amount of range but nobody really cares, most people only care about his peak.

[quote] Mariah is nowhere near as talented as Aguilera.

LOL. Now you're just pulling shit straight out of your ass. Christina built her entire vocal style mimicking Mariah Carey.

Christina can't even hold a candle to Kelly Clarkson, let alone Mariah Carey. Fuck out of here with your nonsense.

Christina Aguilera has a very ugly tone. I don't care how much range she has, she sounds terrible.

HAHAHAHAB TROLLS 162/163 I'll argue with you the day whoriah manages to have songs like I TURN TO YOU/ OBVIOUS/ BEAUTIFUL.

Hell, even Demo Christina singing Just be free was already better than Mariah.

Selena Gomez is way better than all of these bitches.

A bit off-topic but the hate Whitney got (getting "Shitney", "Whiteney", etc) was so ridiculous. She made pop music for white audiences, big deal, it sold and made her famous worldwide. Some black people thought she was stuck-up and bougie, same deal with Lionel Richie and Donna Summer for their music. Mariah started out the same thing but because she's mixed-leaning-white appearing, she got a pass and Mariah going more R&B with "Butterfly" was embraced with open arms while Whitney when she attempted "I'm Your Baby Tonight" underperformed and she went back to doing adult contemporary with "The Bodyguard". Irony is Michael Jackson went more pop with "Bad" yet nobody said shit about that for any reason though he hopped on the new jack swing and R&B route in the 90s to stay relevant.

Axl Rose does have wide range but his signature style of singing is annoying many people's ears. It doesn't help Guns N Roses only had one great album and the rest is mediocre.

Mariah at least could use those 5 octaves in songs; mosts singers who have whistle register believe its enough to just hit one ugly note for everyone to cum.

They were both technically magnificent, but Houston was just a little more effortless and raw.

Shitney strained in her upper belts while Qween Mariah could resonate even to Bb5 (in Honey)

Their voices would have lasted into their 60s without alcohol and drugs. It's their own fault for sounding like hags now.

I'm just shocked that most of these bitches smoked.

[quote] I'm just shocked that most of these bitches smoked.

I’m always shocked when I hear singers or dancers smoke.

But it never stopped DL’s favorite showgirl Lucille Ball.

I loves me some Mariah, the personality not the music, God knows I do but she has always been a nervous type live singer. I think that also contributed to her bad performances as her voice was aging.

Agreed. Mariah has, er, had *something* that Whitney didn't seem to possess. Can't figure it out but both were immense talents. Don't get me wrong, but always preferred Mariah. Nowadays she is kinda of a "stable bimbo", though.

R170 Exactly. Even in her prime, once Crackney got up to D#5 and above, her belts became shouty. You'd have to go back to the late 80s and early 90s to find clips of her sounding good on a D#5.

To be fair, past D#5, Mariah's upper belts have been non-existent since 2015.

Mariah over-sang and warbled ever song she sang….

Why you use D sharp instead of E flat R176?

Whitney seemed like she didn’t really care about or enjoy singing that much. It was something that she was naturally talented with and could do easily without much practice. It was something she did to keep occupied until her next hit of crack.

Barbra Streisand was better

Shitrayah? She strained as hell above E5 in her prime, here miss Carter is able to hit resonant F7 in full chest voice.

Mariah is better in everything including living

Clive Davis said that it was the smoking (cigarettes) that damaged Whitney's voice. Whitney also smoked marijuana, as well (she admitted to that on an Oprah interview).

I can believe she just took her voice for granted.

I saw a video of a young-ish Dionne Warwick singing and she was holding her microphone at around waist-level. That's how powerful her voice was. As we know, Dionne likes to smoke and probably took her voice for granted, as well.

R179 😂 you are so fkin disrespectful.

[quote] Whitney seemed like she didn’t really care about or enjoy singing that much. It was something that she was naturally talented with and could do easily without much practice.

I agree. I think Whitney was so good at singing without much practice due to Cissy Houston being such a strict teacher in her early years. Yet I never got the impression that Whitney took her singing career seriously or even enjoyed doing it. It was simply a job for her that paid well. I only felt joy in her singing when she did Gospel. She was always emotionally unreadable to me, much like Luther Vandross.

In 1993 Mariah said she was an alto and I believe her. She just forced herself to sing as a soprano by streching out her voice to its limits. That's why her voice gave out in 1999 and playback started to be her trademark.

Someone bringing up that blandass mediocrity known as Beyonce as a good singer. She took a huge dump on Etta James's songs.

R187 Do you sometimes imagine how Beyonce takes a dumb?

r188 It would sound horrible. No doubt.

I think Whitney had a certain mystique about her that Mariah lacked. Pre crack, of course. She had a very specific imperial phase where she was the culture. When she was on any award show from 1988-94, it was must see. She was captivating - gorgeous, star power for days, and a voice that seemed to effortlessly do amazing things. Then the drugs even made her more talked about.

Mariah has huge, huge hits and a big, rangy voice. But she never had that imperial phase where her every move was recorded and studied, good or bad.

In fact, very few pop stars have had an imperial phase where it seemed the entire country had to tune in and see what they might do whenever they were on any stage or at any event: Madonna had it for a long, long time (and I am not a big Madonna fan). Whitney had it. Gaga had it for one brief moment.

Mariah never had that. And I think that's why people think Whitney was a better singer. She just had a more insane peak where everyone called her the best singer and that stuck in the collective.

Not sure who was actually better. But both were insanely gifted pop singers.

[quote] "I wasn't offering my opinion re my preference of one over the other. I'll state it again - Houston was the superior singer if the two."

I'm with R112. Objectively, Houston was the superior vocalist.

And because it's stuck in my head as a result of reading this thread, I'm linking my all-time favorite Whitney song. The extremely homosexual video may be her gayest, and could certainly contend for her greatest. But she looked and sounded so fucking FRESH in this, it's beautiful. She was beautiful in it.

That's the one adjective I always use to describe this song: fresh. The arrangement is very of the time, and she was so young, but her vocals sound so fresh and clean. And aside from Glennis Grace, no one else sounds like her.

Not nearly as gay as Girl gone wild R191

R178 They're the same thing, but traditionally when writing you use # instead of b, so D#5 instead of Eb5.

[quote] "Not nearly as gay as Girl gone wild [R191]"

Ha! I'll give you that, R192.

Many folk think Whitney was born a man and I have to agree. No way that masculine monster is a girl. Just no way.

[quote]Do you sometimes imagine how Beyonce takes a dumb?

She takes a dumb every time she opens her mouth.

R183 Whitney also had Emphysema. Not sure when it was diagnosed but I think cigarettes weren't the ONLY thing working against her;

R197 Drinking too much clandestine vaginal fluid destroyed Whitney's vocal cords.

R191 That was all Clive Davis too. Although BOTH are/were ghetto AF, Whitney remained classy about it probably because of Cissy and that Motown mentality of speaking properly and dressing elegantly for crossover appeal. It was something that was ingrained.

HOWEVER...

Mariah was forced into that image and the second she got rid of Mottola....it was titties, booty shorts, and rappers. She calls it "Butterfly" but we ALL know what's really called: You can't turn a hoe into a housewife.

And I LOVE that about her.

Sorry that was a reply to R190.

Generally Martha Wash was far better singer than Mariah, she was also a dramatic soprano which is rare.

LOL. Martha Wash had the body of a hippo in a dress. Ain't no way that cow was ever gonna be popular.

[quote] Generally Martha Wash was far better singer than Mariah, she was also a dramatic soprano which is rare.

Patti LaBelle is also a dramatic soprano and is probably the most famous one in popular music.

I loved Mariah and Whitney's duet. It highlights their strengths and uniqueness as singers. Whitney was famous for recording songs in one take because singing was so effortless for her. Mariah is much more strategic and meticulous in her approach. She experiments, but if it doesn't come out how she likes it the first time, she will redo it to improve it, regardless of the number of takes.

I always wonder how different of a vocalist Mariah would've been had she learned her craft in the church like Whitney.

Martha Wash eats Mariah in upper register just look at the G#5 where Mariah farts some thin noise when Martha would be able to sing without mic

The consensus is that Maria Carey sucks. White girl ruined her voice (because she had no training) by 1998. Butterfly was absolutely horrible in technique for Maria.

R205 An ESL idiot.

Why dramatic voices are so rare in pop? They sounds far better than those whiny thin lyric voices.... Xtina has small voice but try to sound like a dramatic soprano

All Shitina does is scream everything. Even when that lil white whore was 14 all she did was scream.

I think Mariah is more ghetto. Whitney really wasn't raised in the ghetto and her parents were middle-class and sent her private schools and her aunt was Dionne Warcick. Her father was educated and came from a line of upper-middle class free blacks in the Northeast and owned his own entertainment company. Whitney's behavior was influenced by drug abuse and rebelling against her parents. She was offended that black people thought of her as a sell-out. Many middle-class black kids try to act "street" and engage in fuckery to prove themselves. Whitney should have done a Donna Summer or Tina Turner and move to Europe and said "fuck em all."

Mariah was a guidette in high school. Her high school yearbook said something like "I want to marry a guido and drive in a Ferrari".

R190 I think Whitney was a better "pop singer" than Mariah but Mariah may have had a better voice. Mariah, the bitchy cunt, nevertheless had approachability and a common touch. She didn't have great creative taste, and she was never chic about her gift. Whitney was very aristocratic in a way. Yeah, a crack mess but she shared her artistry in a chic way.

Y'all don't know New York. Mariah may dress provocatively to show off her fake boobs, but she is not ghetto. If anything, she was influenced by the blue-collar Italian-Americans on Long Island. Even her first husband, Tommy Mottola, was a guido schooled in Westchester.

Whitney on the other hand, like Martha Stewart, is common NJ trash. Only Candy Crush playing peasants would deign to regard Whitney as aristocratic. Oh my sides! Just because you see a tall, thin woman wearing a column dress doesn't make her regal. Fact is, Crackney's drug use and death rendered her permanent trash.

Now, Diana Ross, The Jacksons and The Debarges were messy hood folk that were cleaned up for public spectacle. Whitney on the other hand chose to embrace the street life after getting addicted to coke and hooking up with Bobby Brown who was from the projects of Boston. Whitney was foolish in choosing that downward mobility but she seemed hellbent on getting back at her abusive mother. A lot of kids who are overly controlled by stage moms go wild especially once they get money and some freedom. Whitney should have cut her family off and ignored the criticism she got from some "crabs in barrel" blacks. Middle class people of all colors loved her. Kevin Costner was infatuated with her. She could have had any man (or woman) she wanted. She married her drug buddy. Beautiful fool.

Mariah was and is Long Island trash and actually didn't like Whitney at first because she thought she was bougie and stuckup. Mariah was always a hoe but Tony Matolla cleaned her up to look like a girl-next-door. Once she dumped him, she embraced her inner party girl slut.

Back on topic. Whitney better sound. Mariah better technique. Whitney better live performer. Mariah better studio singer. Both memorable songs. Mariah writes her stuff and has more albums and remixes. But Whitney is still studied and analyzed by musicians and her renditions even if covers are still mimicked.

R212 She was middle class. More black people were middle class in the 1960s and 1970s before Reagan destroyed everything the New Deal and Civil Rights achieved. Whitney unfortunately rose at the time, black poverty was rising due to the loss of unions and factory jobs, redlining, white flight and rise of crack. So lower-class black people felt she was too unrelatable just like The Huxtables were. Rather than be happy for success and positive image she gave.

Vanessa Williams like Whitney also got flack because she was also sheltered, middle class and spoke in a soft voice and related more with white middle class people. Her light skin and eyes didn't help either. Vanessa though unlike Whitney had better parents who valued her education rather than celebrity and she married up three times. Vanessa only got support from black people because the racism she faced and humiliation at losing her Miss America crown. So Vanessa had to go to the black community for support after being casted away by whites. On the other hand, Whitney was loved by white people and seemed so perfect that it frustrated so many black people with low self-esteem. Black people made fun of her after her crack addiction got so bad and she was making a fool of herself in public. Now she's dead, they act like she was always beloved.

By the way, one sad OCD twat has posted 80 times in this thread.

Whitney was a perfect lifelong crack addict? Now I have heard everything. LOL.

No one cares about Whitney's dated MOR catalog. Even during her prime, Whitney was known as a singles artists. Other artists filled in the gaps on the hit soundtracks as Whitney's output slowed. As songwriters and producers, Madonna and Mariah Carey were able to craft cohesive albums and their discographies have aged and sold better.

Whitney's hit songs (created by other people) are easy to sing, so many amateurs seeking stardom do. Singers cite Whitney as an inspiration because of easy brownie points. It's like saying you enjoy eating pasta. So does everyone else.

Whitney may be beloved by boisterous diehards, but Mariah is more respected by industry insiders (producers, singers, execs) for her work ethic, songwriting skills, and unmatched musicality when it comes to improvisation and songcraft. The wide vocal range and good looks are a bonus. Columbia got more for their money from Mariah than Arista got for all their troubles with Whitney.

It's not true that Mariah is respected more by singers. I mean, didn't Chaka Khan call her a studio singer recently?

Mariah married Tony Motolla who pushed her heavily on the radio. Payola worked in her favor. She also got in hot water for trying to take full credit of songs she cowrote. She's extremely problematic.

Some of you fuckers don't know a damn thing of which you speak....er, type. Seriously!

[quote]Mariah is more respected by industry insiders (producers, singers, execs) for her work ethic

What fucking work ethic? That bitch is lazy as shit. She's only still relevant today because she has that fucking Christmas song that goes to number one EVERY FUCKING YEAR and requires ZERO effort from her.

R222 is an ignorant fool living under a rock. No one has ever accused Mariah of being lazy. Everyone knows she was a workhorse. It literally led to her infamous breakdown from exhaustion. She worked constantly for over a decade and only slowed down after the hospitalization in 2001 and again when she gave birth in 2011.

Pre-pandemic, Mariah was constantly writing, producing, and recording new songs and remixes, doing tv performances, interviews, and commercials, private concerts, world tours, a residency, and her annual holiday show. She released new albums in: 1990-Debut (#1), 1991-Emotions, 1992-Unplugged, 1993-Music Box (#1), 1994-Merry Christmas, 1995-Daydream (#1), 1997-Butterfly (#1), 1999-Rainbow, 2001-Glitter, 2002-Chambracelet, 2005-TEOM (#1), 2008-E=MC2 (#1), 2009-Memoirs, 2010-MC2U, 2014-Elusive Chanteuse, and 2018-Caution. 16 albums in 28 years is an average of less than 2 years between new projects.

Yeah, Carey is definitely not lazy. Madonna is considered a workhorse but Mariah exceeds her.

[quote] she is responsible for making collabs of singers and rappers popular

And that's a good thing? WORST thing to happen is for rap to have entered the mainstream ... now we have Nicki, Drake, Jayz, Ice Spice and others who have downgraded today's music.

R225, not that poster but I will say although it was not a good thing, it was absolutely a massively influential move. At the time, Mariah had a "sweetheart" persona and nobody thought she'd be singing with Ol Dirty Bastard.

Lazy bitch pays people to carry her fat ass around stage while she lipsyncs.

Maruah was always a very mediocre singer- in early 90s she was often straining above C5 because of her nodules so she tried to cover it with whistles she was able to reach 8th octave- nodules also gave her ability to sing low- so upper 2nd octave was available despite being soprano. But quality of this range was shitty- after 1996 its only became worse- her voice was thin,hoarse,often used playback; Nobody remember her meltdown at the beggining of 00s.

Whitney at least was consistent

[quote] Mariah Carey was far better singer than Whitney Houston

Nope. Not even for a second.

I never got the hype about Mariah Carey. Yes she can do whistle notes but whistle notes are not even a pleasant sound.

Whitney Houston was incredible.

Mariah is overrated as a singer- nobody found her "iconic" or "legendary" in 90s- she was just half-black gurl who makes funny noises. Imagine if she didn't survive her flop in 1999-2001 period- nobody would remember her now.

Still most remember her onlynas a stupid christmas song

Why gays have obsession over female singers? Especially those acting like cunts and thinking its "iconic".

Vivian Reed is better than Maruah and Shitney combined.

[quote] Has anyone's voice declined as badly as Mariah's did after 1996?

No. I cannot think of a single pristine soprano whose voice was burned to a dusky contralto by cigarettes and liquor.

Why does it have to be a competition.

Mariah can't sing.

That fat cunt was only good vocalist from 1992 to 1996. At the beggining she often failed to hit high notes or they were so hoarse and strained that it was painful to hear. She overused whistle to as high as F7 (all in your mind) which cost her belting and low notes.

Yes her range is over 5 octaves (F2-Bb7) but this range is just spreaded like dog shit on a road- not high quality.